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'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says
- tomohawk 8y agoPlease no. A hydraulic hybrid approach would be so much more appropriate. https://www.epa.gov/cati/hydraulic-hybrid-vehicles https://www.epa.gov/cati/hydraulic-hybrid-vehicles
- Skunkleton 8y agoMore appropriate for what? Stop and go city driving while hauling a load?
- stcredzero 8y agoThe hybrid ones might well maintain range while providing tons of power for tailgate parties.
- mdorazio 8y agoRight from the article: "We’re going to be electrifying the F-Series — battery electric and hybrid,"
- aidenn0 8y agoWhy? I would estimate that well over 90% of miles driven in F150s are with no significant load. In addition while delivery trucks are driven for many hours per day, most passenger vehicles are not.
- Spooky23 8y agoNot all buyers are fancy truck buyers. Many farm and commercial vehicles will benefit greatly from this.
- tomohawk 8y agoHydraulic hybrids recapture 80% - 90% when braking as opposed to 20% - 30% for electric hybrids. Hydraulic hybrids much better fit the characteristics of a vehicle such as a pickup truck.
- wahern 8y ago> fitted with an EPA-patented full-series hydraulic hybrid drive integrated into the rear axle. Interesting that the EPA holds the patent.
- _underfl0w_ 8y agoIt seemed like they might be considering multiple other options for the F-Series, so you may not be out of luck (yet?) They've previously mentioned doing a plug-in hybrid version. I'm sure this won't be the first we hear of this.
- abrowne 8y agoThey're going to make all-electric (and hybrid) options. What the headline first made me think was that the whole lineup would be all (=only) electric.
- jmole 8y agoI was thinking the same thing. There isn't enough power generation capacity in the US to support something like that.
- cowmix 8y agoWrong. For the energy it takes to refine 1 gal of gas you can drive an EV around 27 miles.
- EpicEng 8y agoAnd best of all, electricity just produces itself!
- hannasanarion 8y agoNo, but a central power generator can produce energy far more cheaply and efficiently than a consumer gas engine optimized for mobility.
- EpicEng 8y agoMy point was that you should be comparing production and consumption directly. Of course electric is better, we wouldn't have EV's otherwise.
- perl4ever 8y agoAn F-Series might consume more energy than, say, a Nissan Leaf, so it doesn't make sense to me to say "an EV" as though that were a standardized measurement.
- haloux 8y ago
- justinph 8y agoI'd love to see them try. The difficulty of making a pickup truck aerodynamically efficient are substantial.
- phkahler 8y agoAero and electric are orthogonal. Not entirely, but largely.
- xxpor 8y agoThere's no reason why pickup trucks need to have the MASSIVE flat grills they do today, other than aesthetic preferences. They're a disaster aerodynamically as well as for pedestrian safety. Obviously there's a lot more to it (like the bed) but it's a start.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoI don't think the grill is significant - the 'whale' shape is supposed to be near ideal. No, its the box in the back that tanks pickup mileage.
- ericd 8y agoAre aerodynamics even that significant an energy bleed at the speeds we’re talking about? I’m guessing engine losses for those large low rev torque tuned engines are a bigger difference. And of course the massive weight of most pickups these days.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoStopping and starting, weight is a problem. But cruising, weight is an advantage! Makes it hard to figure mileage. Definitely the engine/transmission friction is a big deal.
- strait 8y agoI think you're referring to the massive grill guards on the front of many pickups. Are you saying "no reason other than aesthetic preferences" because you feel like it? Deer at night are a major hazard in much of the land. I hit a small one at night a few weeks ago in central Texas and the dead center impact managed to destroy the chintzy plastic grill in my car and buckle the radiator. I was lucky at that. I was on a four lane highway, doing 50 in a 60 zone, and being vigilant. Still, like most major impacts with deer, this happened completely without warning. As fleet of foot as deer are, they still seem to be slightly overly optimistic about crossing the road before the vehicle arrives, and with cars as fast as they are, there is little room for error. (Try communicating that to the deer) My mom 'totaled' her car a few years back by hitting a bigger deer at a little faster speed. An impact without any warning.
- jdhn 8y agoI honestly think that this will help make electric vehicles more mainstream. People here in the US love their F-150's, and if Ford could make die hard truck fans switch from a V8 to a TTV6, then they're the ones that can convince the same fans consider buying a hybrid or electric F-150.
- msla 8y agoAnd I think the cultural problems will scuttle the whole thing. https://jalopnik.com/bro-truck-owners-are-deliberately-blocking-tesla-superc-1831322063 https://jalopnik.com/bro-truck-owners-are-deliberately-block... > Bro-Truck Owners Are Deliberately Blocking Tesla Supercharger Spots > I generally like people, which may be why I never fail to be surprised when I encounter people being truly unrepentant dickheads for no good reason whatsoever. That’s what seems to have been going down at a Tesla Supercharger in Hickory, North Carolina, where a Tesla owner was attempting to charge her car, only to find the Supercharger spots blocked by at least three pickup trucks, with the trucks owners chanting “Fuck Tesla.” What the hell? The problem is that electric cars are associated with "Believing In Global Warming" which is associated with Blue Tribe. Red Tribe will fight this.
- dharmab 8y agoKeep in mid the F-Series are sold as fleet vehicles too. Electric utility vehicles have a place.
- jdhn 8y agoYeah, I read that article when it came out, and it seems that these guys were trolling hard. However, I'm willing to bet that once a truck fan (not the ones in your article) drive an electric pickup truck and experience all the low end torque that it puts out, they'll quickly become converts.
- cure 8y agoYeah. If you actually want to pull something heavy - or just want to accelerate fast - that flat torque curve you get from an electric motor will leave ICE trucks in the dust.
- anewguy9000 8y agoso after 5 years the battery in my laptop is just toast. can anyone comment on what happens to an electric car after 5 years? 10, 20? i have a truck with 350,000 kms on it. will this still be possible?
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoLaptops have constraints on the battery - ultra-thin etc. Cars are different, they just want lightweight. So it'll be more than 5 years. To get big miles, have to change the battery pack I imagine.
- torstenvl 8y agoI had a 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid up until the end of 2016. Mileage did decrease to about 27mpg avg from about 29-30mpg (it actually decreased to 24-25mpg for a while but I just needed to replace the engine air filter... whoops). Ford dealership offered to replace the battery for somewhere around $3600 IIRC.
- zjaffee 8y agoReplacing the battery is always possible, I'd imagine if the electric components are built well, it's likely that with battery replacements you could make the truck last even longer than it would with a more mechanical machine.
- imtringued 8y agoBy the time the battery has fully degraded the cost of a replacement will have gone down too.
- twiceaday 8y agoA certified Ford dealer will be more than happy to sell you a replacement battery.
- saidajigumi 8y agoCurrent generation lithium-based batteries will be recycled into batteries for non-automotive applications, e.g. fixed-location storage, etc. It's a wear component, just like cars have always had wear components. If/when a viable contender technology reaches manufacturing at scale, allowing for very-high charge/discharge cycles, that picture will change dramatically. There's currently a ton of money and R&D effort being driven in this direction, so we'll see what emerges.
- ProfessorLayton 8y agoThis is a big deal. The F-Series is the single most popular vehicle in the US, and nearly 900K of them are sold every year! In fact, the top 3 models in the US are F-Series, Silverado, and Ram, so the environment will definitely appreciate the electrified competition the F-Series will force.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoI look forward to it. My F150 gets between 19mpg and 13mpg depending on the gas and the temperature(!) I'd love to spend less than $90 at the pump
- ghettoimp 8y agoDo you need a truck? (If so that's just fine. But I'm in Texas, and I'm pretty sure most of these folks could get by on something smaller...)
- azhenley 8y agoNot the OP, but I've recently had several similar discussions with friends/family about trucks when I bought my Tesla. I live in Tennessee, a popular truck area. They claimed to like trucks for the convenience. Being able to throw stuff in the back and not have to think about whether it will fit in a car. While I do understand this advantage, it would only help me 2-3 times a year, and I aim to optimize for the 95% of daily driving. There is definitely a social and fashion element to it too, just like there is with any brand/type of vehicle.
- MisterOctober 8y agoI disliked pickup trucks for their size and fuel consumption until I owned a house and got heavily into gardening. Home maintenance and significant garden activity are made waaaaay easier by having a truck [or big van, I guess] available. That said, I still don't personally own a truck, borrowing them as needed. An all-electric model of good quality would be pretty tempting to me.
- exabrial 8y agoI really hope they don't ignore fuel cell technology or other phase change energy storage systems when they do this. Batteries are not convenient for the vast amount of their consumers in non population dense areas. (For those of you from cities, an F150 is a status symbol everywhere else in the USA).
- germinalphrase 8y agoNow, if only they would revive the light trucks of the 1980s. Even the new Ranger looks massive (perhaps, that’s only looks though?).
- SandersAK 8y agono they are massive. the new tacomas are huge. i miss my 99 ranger :(
- protomyth 8y agoI was thinking about a Colorado and even those are huge compared to my old B4000 (Ford Ranger with a better grill). The Colorado was also the most uncomfortable truck I've ever sat in.
- whyenot 8y agoThey really are larger. You can't even buy a single cab Tacoma in the US anymore.
- rhinoceraptor 8y agoIt'll probably never happen because pickups have such a big profit margin, they wouldn't want to sell a lower end one when people are buying the bigger ones. Also, you have to pay extra taxes to import trucks, so you either have to build them in the US or raise the price.
- germinalphrase 8y agoThe Chicken Tax was going to be repealed as part of the TPP, but that obviously imploded.
- amacbride 8y agoWe had a 3rd-Generation Toyota 4WD that was simply amazing -- I think we sold it with 350K miles on it, and it's probably still running today. I looked at a recent Tacoma, and was shocked at how huge they'd gotten. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#Third_generation_(N30,_N40;_1978–1983) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#Third_generation_...
- jws 8y agoThere is plenty of demand for short range commercial pickup trucks. Think of "on campus" maintenance vehicles. You need to tow equipment trailers, haul tools and bulk items, but you don't put many miles on them. A trip to the gas station is a pure waste of employee time, just charge them up at night. Marketing may prevent Ford from leading with a short range truck, but a less than eye wateringly expensive vehicle with a lighter battery pack and less range would find buyers and make a safer, low volume launch.
- nradov 8y agoThere's demand sure, but not much profit available. Those fleet buyers choose the cheapest stripper spec trucks and have no brand loyalty. So the manufacturers focus on more profitable segments.
- ip26 8y agoIt's interesting though, with lower operating costs & less maintenance, they might be worth the premium even for fleet. Fleet buyers get the stripper spec because leather and A/C doesn't matter, but electric might influence the bottom line.
- Marsymars 8y agoWhat would be really perfect for "on campus" maintenance vehicles where you're not driving them on the highway or towing heavy loads would be electric Kei trucks.
- Havoc 8y agoTitle is deceptive
- artificialidiot 8y agoRivian is the much needed kick in the nuts. When it turn out to be a viable truck and not just vaporware with lofty promises, people took note. I am by no means a truck or suv type guy but the idea of full electric one is very intriguing, if only I had the space. I can imagine the allure of great low end torque, improved storage capacity and the fuel savings for the more leisurely drivers, who don't need to tow 10 tons or haul 1-2 tons which is frankly not the case for the vast majority of the people in my experience. People keep saying lithium batteries loose capacity and stuff but less energy dense chemistries than the one in your mobile phone fare better in an automotive setting. Big automotive companies had all the time in the world to come up with the tech of the future but they squandered the opportunity. Upstarts seem to be poised to eat their cake.
- clouddrover 8y ago> Upstarts seem to be poised to eat their cake. Probably not. I think Volkswagen will be the biggest producer of battery electric vehicles within the next 3 years. VW is also talking about licensing their MEB electric car platform to Ford (though not necessarily for this F-150).
- sjwright 8y agoI do like the look of the Golf GTE, but it's not sold here (Australia) and I don't trust VAG as a company. In my estimation, electric is perfect for the smaller second car, where it becomes a no-brainer for 95% of commuting and shopping tasks. Tesla is going for the electric-car-first market. Volkswagen, BMW and others seem to be throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks. Right now the most interesting future products are coming from Hyundai-Kia. In particular I'm looking at the Kia Niro EV with quiet anticipation. A completely normal and boring car that gets all the normal and boring stuff right—but with a well sorted pure electric power train. https://youtu.be/AR5sDwF5aBM?t=103 https://youtu.be/AR5sDwF5aBM?t=103
- clouddrover 8y agoYes, I agree the Hyundai Kona EV is the best value for money today. It's got good range at a good price. But the upcoming Volkswagen I.D. models are also cars which get the normal and boring things right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/concept-cars/volkswagen-id https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/concept-cars/volkswage... The I.D. hatchback is supposed to be priced around the same as a diesel Golf. They say they'll be able to drive down prices though the economies of scale of their MEB platform: https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-electric-car-pla-1829257860 https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-... And for high-end luxury cars VW will have the Porsche Taycan and at least three models of Audi e-tron in the next few years (Audi e-tron SUV to be released soon, a future Audi e-tron GT based on the Porsche Taycan's platform, and a future Audi CUV based on the same MEB platform as the I.D. models).
- mrbonner 8y agoI will not buy another pickup when my F-150 is gone. So many god-dang people keep asking to borrow mine to run their errands.
- EADGBE 8y agobuT HaRDly aNYonE aCtuaLLY haS USe fOr A TrucK
- dwighttk 8y agoFord: we’re going to make an all-electric F-Series truck Might be a better title
- elchief 8y agoFinally. I've been waiting for an all electric truck, and Ford is a decent brand
- anumberofopt 8y agoThis would have been amazing for when I lived in a small town in the subarctic. My truck was always useful for things like dump runs or picking up lumber etc. But the town was 20 km end-to-end so I would rarely drive more than 10 km at a time. Of course you'd need a second car or truck for longer trips, but everybody has more than one car in a rural area anyways. Completely flips the environmental option that many chose where you drive a Prius to work and a truck long haul, to the other way around.
- appleiigs 8y agoThe 2019 RAM 1500 already has an "eTorque" system which also known as an "mild-hybrid".
- natch 8y agoThey said they are going to make an all electric version. On Hacker News this becomes: “We’re going to make F-Series all-electric.” Then HN readers (the current top comment) read it as: “We are going to make ALL F-Series trucks all-electric.”
- 21 8y agoThis is terrible. How am I supposed to roll coal in an electric?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- makerofspoons 8y agoImagine the options for fleets- you could have electrical outlets along the bed to let you plug in and use electric tools powered by your truck! That would be huge for maintenance vehicles.
- mastrsushi 8y agoI have a really worried feeling about this. Don't get me wrong, it needs to happen, but why start off the transition with commercial? It's the consumers who are concerned with buying gas, environmental, and politics. The elephant in the room is Tesla and of course every auto company will follow, further eating into the consumer sedan to SUV market. So why doesn't Ford start there, then work there way up to migrate its trusted largest asset F-Series? I worry Ford is about to look really stupid, sticking out like a sore thumb.
- cptskippy 8y agoMost people's F Series are both their personal and work vehicle. At least here in Georgia, it's a lifestyle vehicle. It makes perfect sense to me when most middle aged white collar professionals with money in Georgia drive a big truck and like their gadgets.
- blihp 8y agoWell Tesla does have the Semi so it's not like this is completely virgin ground. Presumably they've got better data than we do re: mileage needs and its possible (just guessing) that many of the F-Series buyers might make sense re: living within range of a single charge while also seeing more of an impact given the lower MPG of trucks. Something else to keep in mind is that American big auto ironically hasn't been, how shall I say this, umm... great at doing passenger cars for the last 40 years. So another thought is that they might see this as a place they can be more competitive.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y agoBecause the more you drive, the more you save in energy and maintenance cost by switching to EV: charging cost far below gas prices, no oil change, (almost) no break change, etc. The only thing that slows down (for now) the EV transition is the up-front cost of buying the battery. But businesses are more aware of the cost advantage of EV than consumers.
- King-Aaron 8y agoOh god, the customer base nearly shat the bed when they announced a transition from steel to aluminium panels... Looking forward to the uproar this will cause!
- mchannon 8y agoUsed to own a factory Ford Ranger EV. The vehicle was a dead ringer for the gas version, down to the same weird gearshift off-by-half-a-position thing. I even gave people rides and they didn't notice it wasn't gas. Alas, it had a second-hand 312V lead acid pack made up of out-of-production 8V batteries. One battery went bad and then it became a yearlong half-finished battery changeout. Sold it for about what I paid for it. Would buy one (if they ever made any more) in a heartbeat. Word is Ford crushed most of the ones they made, rather than all of them.
- benmorris 8y agoEven a plugin electric hybrid would be a big in my opinion (30-60 mile range). We have owned a Volt now for over a year and it has been great. Since owning it we average 75 mpg. My wife can nearly drive to work and back on all electric. I have an F-150, a ~50 mile range hybrid would cover nearly all of my driving.
- greglindahl 8y agoPlugin hybrids make great sense, but they don't sell well: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
- H1Supreme 8y agoHopefully they make a version that isn't absolutely gigantic. I've wanted a basic, no-frills 4x4 pickup truck with a 6 foot bed for years now. Problem is, they're all gigantic. And, they all have back seats! Ford released a new Ranger, which is nearly large as everything else out there. In the late 80's / early 90's there were all types of small trucks on the road (including the ranger). Now, there's zero options in US for something that resembles those vehicles. Currently, I drive a compact SUV (Honda HRV), which does nearly everything I need. But, I have to line the hatch in a tarp when I deal with anything dirty. I'd love a truck version of this car, but the options are just absurdly large.
- TylerE 8y agoDoes it have to be a Ford? What about something like the Chevy Colorado?
- voltagex_ 8y agoCan anyone tell me why diesel hybrids aren't really a thing? Edit: should have Googled - this makes sense: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-why-they-dont-make-as-much-sense-as-you-think https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]