17 ms·

Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

457 points by aportnoy 8y ago

black6 8y ago
I recommend The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins. The definitive guide to humanure composting, and the best reference for general composting I've read.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
forapurpose 8y ago
Gates does wonderful things with his philanthropy. I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics, even when the politics is directly related (e.g., does he lobby the politicians or try to move the public regarding education funding?). Why not? Is it a policy? Prior generations of philanthropists invested heavily in peace and justice, for example, including the Ford Foundation and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Certainly our society today has major problems in those areas - arguably we have great success with tech, which he does invest in, and have been terrible and social and political issues. Also, those problems in some ways directly harm Gates' goals (for example, U.S. political and racial issues greatly affect U.S. education), in other ways they lead to policies, such as nationalist economics, that will reduce economic activity and thus investment in these issues, and in yet in other ways the problems impose costs on people that dwarf the benefits Gates' programs provide - the oppression of Western-backed dictators and the cost of potential warfare being among them. I realize I've assumed it's a policy of Gates', but does anyone have real knowledge about why he avoids those issues?
- darawk 8y ago
  > Gates does wonderful things with his philanthropy. I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics, even when the politics is directly related (e.g., does he lobby the politicians or try to move the public regarding education funding?). Why not? Is it a policy? I believe that is on purpose. He doesn't want his work to become politicized in the way that others have (e.g. George Soros, Kochs). From a purely philanthropic point of view, I think this is the right move. He probably takes the view that if you make people's lives better and give them good education, the rest will follow, in the long run.
- mitko 8y ago
  According to https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/General-Information/What-We-Do-Not-Fund https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/General-Informat... they do not fund “Political campaigns and legislative lobbying efforts” As to reasons, why, I am not sure but I imagine there is a pragmatic angle to it in addition to reputation and other considerations. Investing in politics increases the risk that the funds get wasted if the political climate changes.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  Politics is extremely divisive and, even more importantly, is perhaps no longer a major vessel to enact meaningful longterm change. There is of course the issue of one decade's change being overwritten by the next decade's party. But there's something more fundamental. In times past government was able to enact huge changes, because government enacted and enforced policies that directly harmed society. Slavery is the most obvious one. Government worked as an enforcer for slavery and was equally able to end it with little more than a vote and stroke of a pen. But in today's era I think we've started to reach an era of sharply diminishing returns for governmental action because the issues are ones that are less systemic and, in any case, cannot be directly solved by government in any completely clear way. For instance you mention education. If you poll most people on our state of education in the US the results would have little to nothing to do with reality. And that reality is that we already spend an immense amount on it - more than nearly anywhere in the world. This isn't a proxy for population size, I am referring to cost per student of course. And this also isn't just a proxy for ridiculous university costs. If you look at only education costs outside of university, we are the 5th biggest spender in the world. And similarly this isn't a proxy for private spending with wealthier folks sending their kids to private institutions. If you compare just our public spending on this same group of education, we end up 7th in the world - comparing just our public spending to everywhere else's public + private spending. And as an aside, those costs are all normalized to account for the fact that a dollar goes a lot further in many places than the US - meaning we are indeed comparing apples to apples, by multiplying other nations' nominal spending. All numbers mentioned here from the OECD data [1]. They list the private/public spending in GDP relative ratios which does silly things like put South Africa and Costa Rica as the world leaders in education, but you can convert those figures into something useful. For instance in the US our GDP relative share of public spending on education outside of university is 3.207. Our GDP relative share of private spending on education outside of university is 0.307. Therefore of all our spending on non-university education, 3.207/(3.207+0.307) = 91.3% is public. You can now take this and apply it to our gross spend on non-university education ($12,424.3 dollars per student) to see that we publicly spend 12423.3 * .913 = $11,342 per student per year on education outside of university - which leads to our public spending being higher than every other nation's, excepting 6, public+private spending The point of this is that most people think that we just need to spend more money on education and everything would be dandy. No, our problems are more fundamental and require solutions that are in no way obvious. Bill Gates, though I do not particularly agree with his direction, is working towards trying to create these very sort of solutions. And these solutions, should he be correct, are what actually have the possibility of enacting real longterm change. [1] - https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm
- rypskar 8y ago
  >> I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics I would argue that he do invest a lot in social issues and politics, but that he invest in fixing the cause not the symptom. Improving education and reducing poverty is, in my opinion at least, one of the best ways to improve the causes leading to a lack of peace and justice. Putting more money in the pockets of corrupt politicians, aka lobbying, is at best putting a patch on the symptom.
seibelj 8y ago
Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them
- com2kid 8y ago
  Most bathrooms aren't wired for electricity near the toilet. That aside, you can buy Toto toilets in the US. The fancy ones are north of 4k, but they are available. Cold water sprays are readily available, $60 and a 10 minute installation later.
  - mikekchar 8y ago
    I just wanted to point out that the US prices are pretty comparable to the Japanese prices. And after having lived in Japan for nearly a decade, I'll pay the price in a heartbeat. The previous occupants of our apartment left one in our apartment and it's one of the cheaper models (about $3-400 IIRC). It's still awesome and worth every cent. You could probably even justify it based on the reduction in toilet paper if you want to, but I don't even think of it. It's gotten to the point where when I go back to visit the UK or Canada, the lack of cleaning options is just disgusting in my mind. Edit: weird wording
    - com2kid 8y ago
      Totally agree, I have a cold water replacement seat type of model, I can't justify getting my bathroom rewired when a $60 device is pretty close almost there. :) My master bathroom toilet is right up against the closet my water heater is in, so the "cold" water is never that cold.
  - halbritt 8y ago
    I have somewhat inexpensive mass-market Toto toilets in my house. I've added a washlet for $400. There's wiring nearby. The warm water is really nice. Until I die, I won't ever not have a washlet at home.
- Baeocystin 8y ago
samstave 8y ago
This makes me realize how freaking stupid we are as a nation/group-of-nations: There are issues/problems that are common to all. Especially common to ALL governments, societies, etc. Given a population of X and an infrastructure level of Y with purpose Z that are impacts ABC...N A=Cost B=Scale C=[whatever] N=... So - when you look at the cost of a nation, we assume that we have an infrastructure maturity/development level of X What does it cost to implpement, upgrade-to, maintain that level. What is the standard. etc... ============= So, when we talk about "saving $X for reinventing Y thing" -- this is a reactionary (albeit valuable) effort... What if we restart rebuilding our societies from ground zero. Lets build a preplanned city (yeah yeah brazilia etc) and first model it out ala simcity. with AI running it over and over again until it outspits a detailed plan, it thinks is ideal and then a big committee of meat-bags review it and fuck it up. Any Gates-level-ish people want to try to build something. Fuck Mars. Earth First.
- jesterjester 8y ago
  You should visit Korea. This is exactly what happens. New cities are built around that new Samsung office, or that new army base, or that fake, pressured CBD. The cities surrounding the main capital of Korea are marvellous and are all made from scratch in the last 20 years. There is no better model of perfect city.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- samstave 8y ago
  Why the fuck was this downvoted so much, comment and contribute please. This is a serious thought experiment.
  - sk5t 8y ago
    I didn't vote on your comment, but would opine that it fit the downvote-attracting heuristic of "how freaking stupid we are" + pseudo-thoughtful symbolic algebra + inchoate nerdrage.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
I read the headline and thought, "That's weird, Gates isn't really interested in things that just save money these days." And sure enough, from the article: > "...may help end almost 500,000 infant deaths and save $233 billion annually in costs linked to diarrhea, cholera and other diseases..." So I guess that's Bloomberg for you. 233 billion dollars is a way more interesting lede than a mere half a million lives.
- nolok 8y ago
  For the public they aim at? Definitely.
- slededit 8y ago
  Things that aren't cost effective don't normally work at scale. So this is what differentiates it from a feel-good PR stunt that will go nowhere. Cynical to be sure, but grounded in historical precedent.
Bulkington 8y ago
Okay, I'll bite. I was at a urinal today that had a mesh screen of a style I'd never noticed, and I thought: Some guy with a degree in engineering/fluid dynamics has this on his resume. But when you consider there are what, 3.5 billion or so males on the planet, the benefits of urinal hygiene add up pretty quickly. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/urinal-splashback-avoid-byu-wizz-kids_n_4234241.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/urinal-splashback-...
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  A few years ago (maybe 10) we started getting "waterless" urinals in the UK. I assume that was a materials improvement (extreme hydrophobic coatings?). They have an outlet pipe, but no inlet. That must save a lot of piping and water.
  - mikro2nd 8y ago
    Not a materials improvement, but an improvement in the shape of the bowl, so mostly a direct result of better hydrodynamic and CAD modeling. Not only do they use less water, but they /smell better/ -- most of the "smell of urine" results from the pee being added to, and reacting with, water, so no water, no noticeable odour.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      They are plastic though, whilst water flushed toilets, eg in pubs, are always (?) ceramic. Seems that it could be retrofitted easily by replacing the trap if the materials aren't important. I wonder if patent expiration is responsible for the apparent increase in use of similar systems. Thanks for your correction. https://www.waterless.com/how-do-waterless-urinals-work/ https://www.waterless.com/how-do-waterless-urinals-work/
      - mikro2nd 8y ago
        Interesting; I've only ever seen ceramic waterless urinals.
mindfulplay 8y ago
This reminds me of software developer who favor deep, technical, architectural work instead of attractive, "sounds cool on paper" sort of work. To an outsider, the animations look cool but the engine that drives the animation is cooler to software engineers. Point being, this is not something a normal philanthropist would imagine being cool and awesome. This takes someone who actually cares about shit (in this case literally) to invest time and money into it.
- docbrown 8y ago
  One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children grow up healthy. >Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. He also mentions he wrote about toilets before in a 2012 article titled “Reflections on the Reinventing the Toilet Challenge.”[2] Digging deeper into that article brought me to a PDF from the Gates Foundation outlining grants from their 2011 program: “Reinvent the Toilet Challenge” [3] ———— [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVzppWSIFU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVzppWSIFU0 [1]:https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-Poop-to-Potable https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-Po... [2]:https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Reflections-on-the-Reinvent-the-Toilet-Challenge https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Reflections-on-the-Re... [3]:https://docs.gatesfoundation.org/Documents/wsh-reinvent-the-toilet-challenge.pdf https://docs.gatesfoundation.org/Documents/wsh-reinvent-the-...
  - nradov 8y ago
    Western toilets seem to work reasonably well with septic tanks in rural areas. Those don't involve sewer lines or treatment plants.
    - aerophilic 8y ago
Jedi72 8y ago
Toilets are a great example of how technological progress isn't just endless improvement. Sometimes we hit complete dead ends even on the simplest problems.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  There have been lots of toilet innovations "recently". Toilets that use excrement to generate electricity, for example, like in this situation https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41680867 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41680867.
- pokemongoaway 8y ago
  Most things are examples of this - including Intel's latest CPU :) Seriously though, how did the so-called "futurists" get away with applying Moore's law to all innovative processes without being called charlatans? Sky scrapers don't double every 18 months, food has gotten less nutritious... Ditto for education, transportation in the west, all non-emergency medicine, and many who are even "techies" think software has recently been decreasing in quality.
Toilet10 8y ago
It's the natural progression after Windows 10
zukunftsalick 8y ago
TOTO has been researching and improving toilets for many years. I've been to their Toilet museum in Kitakyushu, Japan and it's just amazing the research they put into it, specially in water savings measures. What's missing for them, it's to make them more affordable to everyone.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  Many Japanese companies could make so much money if they'd figure out the international markets.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Sony, Nintendo, Canon, Suzuki, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, etc. are household names. I'd say that the Japanese have plenty of internationally-savvy brands, I wouldn't pity them :p
    - m_mueller 8y ago
      For sure. The thing is, Japan is very industrious and innovative in certain areas, it could have many more international players if it would push more abroad. Much of their services sector for example is almost purely concentrated on domestic market. Same goes for heavy industries, household devices and media industries, with some exceptions in gaming. Toto is a perfect example - they were 20+ years early in washlet innovation but never marketed them much abroad. There's a tendency of giving up after just timid marketing campaigns abroad I think. The most successful examples are mainly where they've built up foreign subsidiaries with a certain amount of autonomy, such as Honda & Toyota in US and Europe.
- sytelus 8y ago
  The problem is that there is no way to make toilets "affordable" for people who really need it. These people who live in 3rd world countries barely manage to put up a roof on their head out of whatever material they can gather around. Their lives often run in debts with zero money to spare on anything. They often don't have money for two proper meals a day. The only "affordable" way for them to have toilet is if you built one for them for free. There are 892 million people without toilet as per Wikipedia. Assuming 10 people sharing toilet, cost of building one toilet is $500 (assuming government gives land for free), solving this problem will require ~$50B investment world wide. This is about half of own money Gates foundation can possibly donate. Also, critical part is ongoing maintenance. So self-maintaining toilets that is very cheap to setup is very critical research to solve this problem.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Since I recently read The Expanse, I keep thinking, more than usual, about the basic life supporting technologies we'd need to be able to live anywhere else in the solar system. In The Expanse all biological waste goes into the recycler, which, evidently, feeds a bioreactor to general clean water and new food. It sounds like what Gates is keen to see deployed: Human waste > fertiliser > new food and hydrogen > fuel cell > energy & water. We're still a long waste from having anything anywhere near a closed system. Baby steps.
- the_duke 8y ago
  Side question: are the books sufficiently different to the TV series to warrant a reading?
  - anonunt 8y ago
    not seen all of the series but it seems to be mashing together the first few books. IMHO they are probably better than the series but they start getting not so good at some point - I cannot remember if i have read them all but i do remember it getting a bit boring / dragged out towards the end. it is ultimately in that class of media where the goal is not so much about saying something to telling a story as it is about making an ongoing revenue stream. I generally stick away from this stuff but sci-fi books seem to all be going this way these days :(
  - gtsteve 8y ago
    A lot of the key events are the same, although the timeline is moved around to introduce some characters sooner. The books go into far more detail about the cultures and their values, and backstory to the characters. I personally recommend it. I'm typically quite busy so I don't really make my way through more than 1-2 books a month but I think I read all the books that are currently out in about 6 weeks.
panabee 8y ago
one potential area of innovation for toilets is in hospitals or pharmacies where people could defecate/urinate in a "smart toilet" which chemically analyzes the waste matter and sends results to a central lab for reporting. when technology gets cheap enough, these smart toilets could then move from healthcare businesses into the home, analyzing waste matter on a daily basis to yield health insights.
- breck 8y ago
  Anytime this idea comes up I have to mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ A funny parody of SV but also has some neat ideas.
charlysl 8y ago
Gandhi would be proud. https://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/10/01/5-things-mahatma-gandhi-said-about-sanitation/ https://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/10/01/5-things-mahatma-ga... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swachh_Bharat_mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swachh_Bharat_mission
- ptd 8y ago
  I've always believed that one of the signs that humanity is headed towards a post-scarcity world is when every human has access to a working toilet with a sanitized plumbing system. Glad to see Gates putting so many resources into solving this issue. Perhaps we need to start having a conversation about which 'version' of Gates has had a bigger impact on society(not that it matters, but an interesting intellectual pursuit). I vote for post-Microsoft Gates, though I would imagine I'm in the minority.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
z3t4 8y ago
My guess is that those $200 will end up with a reinvention of the outhouse, but with a computer that will automatically open and close the seat. Seriously though, if you live in your own house and have a fairly big garden, and aint afraid to do some shitty work, then the waste can be used as fertilizer. I mean why does it have to be so complicated !?
- esmi 8y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil “The use of unprocessed human feces as fertilizer is a risky practice as it may contain disease-causing pathogens. Nevertheless, in some developing nations it is still widespread. Common parasitic worm infections, such as ascariasis, in these countries are linked to night soil use in agriculture, because the helminth eggs are in feces and can thus be transmitted from one infected person to another person (fecal-oral transmission of disease). These risks are reduced by proper fecal sludge management, e.g. via composting. The safe reduction of human excreta into compost is possible. Some municipalities create compost from the sewage sludge, but then recommend that it only be used on flower beds, not vegetable gardens. Some claims have been made that this is dangerous or inappropriate without the expensive removal of heavy metals.”
  - mikro2nd 8y ago
    It doesn't have to be that way: https://humanurehandbook.com/ https://humanurehandbook.com/
dsign 8y ago
>> contained as many as 200 trillion rotavirus cells Journalists can't grasp that saying a rotavirus is a cell is like stretching a wrench to be a SUV? What kind of twisted education system can get somebody to become so proficient with words and so noob in basic science?
- zerocrates 8y ago
  "200 trillion rotavirus cells," at least in other sources, is written as a direct quotation from Gates.
manav 8y ago
I've always wondered why we never really saw toilets in Star Trek. They never really could re-imagine them back then (or now). I have several fully automatic Totos (which have to abide by California/US water usage rules).. and while the bidets, seat heating, and automisting (it sprays water every 15-30 seconds to try to keep the bowl clean) features are nice the water limits and bowl design make it a pain to clean and maintain if you get what I mean. It's also basically useless if theres no electricity, I believe you can manually flush once if the power goes out with a pull-cord. For western/developed countries I think there is still a big market for a better toilet. In developing countries obviously infrastructure is an issue, but for sewage would a composting toilet not be a viable option? Maybe solar powered for some higher power exhaust and ventilation along with water treatment/sanitation. It's kind of the low tech version of how Star Trek would turn matter into energy.
- teddyh 8y ago
  > I've always wondered why we never really saw toilets in Star Trek. When the original series was made, you couldn’t show a toilet on TV – it simply wasn’t allowed. But, beginning in 1989 with the release of the feature film Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, you do get the occasional glimpse of an actual toilet here and there. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Toilet http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Toilet
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Allowed as in illegal? Which country, what regulations?
    - arusahni 8y ago
      In the USA: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/potty-time/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/potty-time/
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        Which intimates it was allowed but that studio policies, it again intimates, might be responsible. It does say one single TV series never showed a toilet, but only a tank. Interesting taboo nonetheless. I always thought it was just not done because it generally isn't moving a story on to show someone on the toilet. Books don't usually mention characters using the toilet either. I've played videogames with an eating mechanic but never one where you needed to defecate (though Sims could when I last played that).
Uberphallus 8y ago
Surprisingly related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo
alexis_fr 8y ago
Toilet Day was recognized by UN in 2013 and is celebrated on November 19th. I guess this report was issued in preparation. UN still doesn’t recognize International Men’s Day, which is on Nov 19 too and celebrated since 2003 [1]. It’s a bit of a humiliation that they put Toilet Day instead. [1] http://internationalmensday.com http://internationalmensday.com
phot0n 8y ago
I have to ask: the results of this research are amazing, but isn't this something that we should all realize is of material importance? Why did it take the funding of a benevolent economic dictator? If you question my assertion of his economic role, this podcast [1] goes into the questionable aspects of the philanthropy of the Gates Foundation and some of the experiments being run in Africa without popular democratic input or consent. [1] https://medium.com/@CitationsPodcst/episode-46-the-not-so-benevolent-billionaire-part-ii-bill-gates-in-africa-4329389dd4a3 https://medium.com/@CitationsPodcst/episode-46-the-not-so-be...
- Brakenshire 8y ago
  Most democracies are not even good at funding medical research for dramatic, emotionally immediate diseases like cancer or dementia. One can only imagine the response that tabloids like Bild, the Daily Mail or Fox News would have if any of our countries spent $200m on toilets for the developing world. This is a perfect example of why capitalism works in my opinion, because you have power bases who can independently pursue unfashionable or undramatic ideas without having to pursuade a population of millions to back them in advance.
satysin 8y ago
It many not be cool and glamorous but dealing with human waste in a hygienic way has been one of the biggest benefits to society that not many people think about. Better toilets means better overall hygiene which means less people sick which means a stronger more reliable workforce and less money wasted on easy to prevent illnesses. For all of the negative things Bill Gates did when at Microsoft I am glad to see most of the money he made from those actions are being used for such positive things now rather than just going back into SV startups and the like.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to create the systems that would otherwise keep them healthy, sanitary, safe, well-fed yada yada. Maybe he could publicly ask, how every year, the Minister of Finance in Nigeria publishes a note indicating there is somehow billions of dollars missing from the coffers, that didn't make it over from the Ministry of Petro Resources, i.e Oil [1]? Or the like. Tackling the more obvious, glaring wide-open 'in our faces but we ignore anyhow' forms of corruption might be a good start, and would ultimately yield a lot more than functional toilets. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/nigeria-oil-corruption-buhari/473850/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/ni...
- tialaramex 8y ago
  One of the things Gates' money pays for is Guinea Worm Eradication. Guinea Worm is literally a parasitic worm. The eradication programme isn't about injecting people with a vaccination, building modern water treatment plants or deploying sophisticated drone technology, it's stuff like: - Here are some free water filters. Filter the water from that murky pond before you drink it. - When you have a worm, don't go in the water. Yes it feels cooler, that's because the worm wants you to go to the water, go to a free treatment clinic instead. - If your neighbour has a worm, go to the clinic, tell them who the neighbour is, you both get cash money and the clinic will treat the worm. Hooray. The biggest obstacles to Guinea Worm Eradication are not about Africa's lack of technology or its corruption. The big obstacles are "insecurity" (ie civil wars or just violent criminals who control outlying areas) and "inaccessibility". Inaccessibility is hard to comprehend for most of us, we're not used to truly being far from civilisation. People who live two days walk from anything resembling a road may have only heard rumours of the existence of the Guinea Worm clinics - for them a parasitic worm chewing its way out of your leg is just a routine hazard of normal rural living. But yeah, Gates is already investing in the very lowest technology fixes, he isn't some tech nutjob who thinks we're going to solve desperate poverty with a Docker image.
majani 8y ago
As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day? Charities work with the premise of preventing suffering, but most developed countries can point to a "great suffering" that made them quickly turn their shit around, akin to an addict hitting rock bottom. I would liken charity in Africa to the enabler who always features in morbidly obese people's lives, constantly bringing the person food out of a misplaced sense of love, where perhaps the truly loving thing to do would be to let the person hit rock bottom and change themselves.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Would you rather keep the horrific death rate for under 5's
- iguy 8y ago
  There is something to this. Was it Ethiopia that (at some point) instituted a no-NGOs-on-mondays type policy, after realising that all their ministers seemed to do was have meetings with the many aid organisations? (No link, sorry.) From memory such organisations contributed something like half the government budget, but all with their own concerns & priorities & need for visible success back home. More generally, I think it's a pattern that governments which have to collect taxes from the masses need their consent, and thus tend to behave better, than governments which do not. Whether the non-tax income is from oil money or foreign aid, it probably has some similar effects.
- pokemongoaway 8y ago
  Funny to see people with real experience being downvoted... Typical leftists. They do the same in the US - destroying communities using welfare. I would explain how this works for the umpteenth time, but leftists never seem to listen anyway (or even bother to summarize their opposition fairly). What makes westerners think they can "save Africa" when their countries are disintegrating so quickly? This is just part of Gate's tax sheltering. Nothing wrong with using legal tax shelters, but he's no savior! I agree with majani's analysis!
cauldron 8y ago
I don't think places that need better toliet could afford or properly run things resulting from this multi millon dollar research.
- F_r_k 8y ago
  Solar panels were (are) a multi million dollar research project. Yet they cost next to nothing and are really easy to operate and install
perpetualcrayon 8y ago
"And I definitely never thought that Melinda would have to tell me to stop talking about toilets and fecal sludge at the dinner table"
bobbymcbobbob 8y ago
Millions of dollars down the toilet...
harlanji 8y ago
Most people don’t think about all the factors of waste disposal. 200,000,000/100,000/7 = 285 educated peoples’ salary for 7 years. Now thow in expenses. Doesn’t seem excessive given the multitude of issues. What’s the full disposal story? Throw in expenses and my response is “... and?” As a SF homeless guy who frequently tweets about my hardships with pooping/water/grossness, I welcome toilet innovation like this.
gigatexal 8y ago
I’d like to meet Gates one day and shake his hand and just tell him I’m glad he’s doing so much good with his wealth. I take for granted a lot and he’s helping to lift those that would love to have what I have.
- inciampati 8y ago
  I wish he hadn't accumulated all this wealth at the cost of strangling computing worldwide under his semi-broken operating system. I not a fan of royalty, autocrats, or monarchs. Just because one person is OK when given that power doesn't make it morally just. It is good he is doing nice things, but I find it troubling.
  - gigatexal 8y ago
    He was a shrewd maybe ruthless businessman that's for sure -- but he's doing amazing things with his wealth now -- maybe this is his penitence?
jokoon 8y ago
I wonder if Gates could be a candidate to be president. He might win, although I'm curious about what politics he would be for. It sounds like he could lean to the left, and I don't think you could call Bill Gates a socialist.
- huhtenberg 8y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/80ow6w/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/dux44u6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/80ow6w/im_bill_gates_... He basically thinks he can accomplish more by not being in the government.
vovo_pap 8y ago
sdfsd
stevespang 8y ago
Gates is in the shitter . . .
ataturk 8y ago
There's a good documentary on Youtube about toilets. Gates has done tremendous work overseas in the area of sanitation. It's a huge problem that needs solving.
keypress 8y ago
Shit article. Basically it says, Gates has poured money into sanitation, and went to an expo. No info about the technology, but there is mention of 5cents a day running cost. That's cheaper than my existing provider, so count me in. Closing quotes were good. “I never imagined that I’d know so much about poop,” Gates said in remarks prepared for the Beijing event. “And I definitely never thought that Melinda would have to tell me to stop talking about toilets and fecal sludge at the dinner table.” Bypass the article.
sebringj 8y ago
The Gates Foundation focuses on real problems and how they can be implemented in the real world to actually solve things that work with the environment, economy and culture symbiotically as opposed to paying for porta-potties and drop shipping them. Knowing how to solve something is the point over blind action that has minimal chance of success. For me, this is the charity worth giving to if you must pick one.
xfactor973 8y ago
Lol it’s called a compost toilet Bill. The technology is already here, it costs almost nothing to construct and use and creates a safe fertilizer at the end of the process. The amount of basic knowledge humanity has forgotten just blows my mind.
- jakewins 8y ago
  Composting toilets do not produce safe fertilizer. Worse, almost all the mainstream designs require handling the compost while the bacterial load is still very high, because the containers need emptying long before sufficient time to break down pathogens has passed. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC93126/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC93126/
  - xfactor973 8y ago
    According to Jenkins that's not true: https://humanurehandbook.com/ https://humanurehandbook.com/
    - jakewins 8y ago
      The NIH study I linked to tested the bacterial load after 6 months of composting in almost 100 toilets. They found 64.2% of them had dangerous levels of coliform bacteria. Jenkins study, on the other hand, does not even attempt to measure the bacterial levels of his toilets - he simply claims thermophilic composting of human waste creates safe humus. The NIH study shows that thermophilic composting is not the mechanism that breaks down bacteria in these toilets; bacterial load is lowered through desiccation, drying out. So - Jenkins does not understand how the composting works in his own product, he has not actually tested the bacterial load, and he is financially benefiting from people thinking his product is safe. You're welcome to think the NIH study is falsified; but I would bet my money on Jenkins being wrong here. Here's his study on the safety of his product: https://humanurehandbook.com/downloads/humanure_sanitation_paper.pdf https://humanurehandbook.com/downloads/humanure_sanitation_p...
      - 8y ago
dmitripopov 8y ago
About 60% of toilets in Russia are how we call them "free fall toilets". Because everything that goes out has to fly more than 3 meters down the hole. My grand-grandma used "human wastes" to manure her garden each spring and it flourished. I guess it won't work nowadays because you've got to eat healthy food to produce healthy waste. But still... $200M?.. Hmm...
samiru 8y ago
What is wrong with composting toilets?
ArrayList 8y ago
That sounds like some interesting shit
JoshTko 8y ago
I wonder how much of the benefit from all this type of work will be wiped out due to climate change. Seems like increased coastal flooding, conflicts over scare resources, droughts, etc. will harm the most vulnerable far more than the benefit of all these programs combined. Like we'll win a battle but will lose the war.
internet555 8y ago
One of my colleagues spent a lot of time working on combination anthropological/aid missions. According to him, toilets/waste disposal was usually the number one way to help people in remote or less developed areas.

457 points by aportnoy 8y ago

I recommend The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins. The definitive guide to humanure composting, and the best reference for general composting I've read.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

forapurpose 8y ago

Gates does wonderful things with his philanthropy. I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics, even when the politics is directly related (e.g., does he lobby the politicians or try to move the public regarding education funding?). Why not? Is it a policy? Prior generations of philanthropists invested heavily in peace and justice, for example, including the Ford Foundation and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Certainly our society today has major problems in those areas - arguably we have great success with tech, which he does invest in, and have been terrible and social and political issues. Also, those problems in some ways directly harm Gates' goals (for example, U.S. political and racial issues greatly affect U.S. education), in other ways they lead to policies, such as nationalist economics, that will reduce economic activity and thus investment in these issues, and in yet in other ways the problems impose costs on people that dwarf the benefits Gates' programs provide - the oppression of Western-backed dictators and the cost of potential warfare being among them. I realize I've assumed it's a policy of Gates', but does anyone have real knowledge about why he avoids those issues?

darawk 8y ago
> Gates does wonderful things with his philanthropy. I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics, even when the politics is directly related (e.g., does he lobby the politicians or try to move the public regarding education funding?). Why not? Is it a policy? I believe that is on purpose. He doesn't want his work to become politicized in the way that others have (e.g. George Soros, Kochs). From a purely philanthropic point of view, I think this is the right move. He probably takes the view that if you make people's lives better and give them good education, the rest will follow, in the long run.
mitko 8y ago
According to https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/General-Information/What-We-Do-Not-Fund https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/General-Informat... they do not fund “Political campaigns and legislative lobbying efforts” As to reasons, why, I am not sure but I imagine there is a pragmatic angle to it in addition to reputation and other considerations. Investing in politics increases the risk that the funds get wasted if the political climate changes.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
Politics is extremely divisive and, even more importantly, is perhaps no longer a major vessel to enact meaningful longterm change. There is of course the issue of one decade's change being overwritten by the next decade's party. But there's something more fundamental. In times past government was able to enact huge changes, because government enacted and enforced policies that directly harmed society. Slavery is the most obvious one. Government worked as an enforcer for slavery and was equally able to end it with little more than a vote and stroke of a pen. But in today's era I think we've started to reach an era of sharply diminishing returns for governmental action because the issues are ones that are less systemic and, in any case, cannot be directly solved by government in any completely clear way. For instance you mention education. If you poll most people on our state of education in the US the results would have little to nothing to do with reality. And that reality is that we already spend an immense amount on it - more than nearly anywhere in the world. This isn't a proxy for population size, I am referring to cost per student of course. And this also isn't just a proxy for ridiculous university costs. If you look at only education costs outside of university, we are the 5th biggest spender in the world. And similarly this isn't a proxy for private spending with wealthier folks sending their kids to private institutions. If you compare just our public spending on this same group of education, we end up 7th in the world - comparing just our public spending to everywhere else's public + private spending. And as an aside, those costs are all normalized to account for the fact that a dollar goes a lot further in many places than the US - meaning we are indeed comparing apples to apples, by multiplying other nations' nominal spending. All numbers mentioned here from the OECD data [1]. They list the private/public spending in GDP relative ratios which does silly things like put South Africa and Costa Rica as the world leaders in education, but you can convert those figures into something useful. For instance in the US our GDP relative share of public spending on education outside of university is 3.207. Our GDP relative share of private spending on education outside of university is 0.307. Therefore of all our spending on non-university education, 3.207/(3.207+0.307) = 91.3% is public. You can now take this and apply it to our gross spend on non-university education ($12,424.3 dollars per student) to see that we publicly spend 12423.3 * .913 = $11,342 per student per year on education outside of university - which leads to our public spending being higher than every other nation's, excepting 6, public+private spending The point of this is that most people think that we just need to spend more money on education and everything would be dandy. No, our problems are more fundamental and require solutions that are in no way obvious. Bill Gates, though I do not particularly agree with his direction, is working towards trying to create these very sort of solutions. And these solutions, should he be correct, are what actually have the possibility of enacting real longterm change. [1] - https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm
rypskar 8y ago
>> I notice that he doesn't invest in any social issues or in politics I would argue that he do invest a lot in social issues and politics, but that he invest in fixing the cause not the symptom. Improving education and reducing poverty is, in my opinion at least, one of the best ways to improve the causes leading to a lack of peace and justice. Putting more money in the pockets of corrupt politicians, aka lobbying, is at best putting a patch on the symptom.

seibelj 8y ago

Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them

com2kid 8y ago
Most bathrooms aren't wired for electricity near the toilet. That aside, you can buy Toto toilets in the US. The fancy ones are north of 4k, but they are available. Cold water sprays are readily available, $60 and a 10 minute installation later.
- mikekchar 8y ago
  I just wanted to point out that the US prices are pretty comparable to the Japanese prices. And after having lived in Japan for nearly a decade, I'll pay the price in a heartbeat. The previous occupants of our apartment left one in our apartment and it's one of the cheaper models (about $3-400 IIRC). It's still awesome and worth every cent. You could probably even justify it based on the reduction in toilet paper if you want to, but I don't even think of it. It's gotten to the point where when I go back to visit the UK or Canada, the lack of cleaning options is just disgusting in my mind. Edit: weird wording
  - com2kid 8y ago
    Totally agree, I have a cold water replacement seat type of model, I can't justify getting my bathroom rewired when a $60 device is pretty close almost there. :) My master bathroom toilet is right up against the closet my water heater is in, so the "cold" water is never that cold.
- halbritt 8y ago
  I have somewhat inexpensive mass-market Toto toilets in my house. I've added a washlet for $400. There's wiring nearby. The warm water is really nice. Until I die, I won't ever not have a washlet at home.
Baeocystin 8y ago

samstave 8y ago

This makes me realize how freaking stupid we are as a nation/group-of-nations: There are issues/problems that are common to all. Especially common to ALL governments, societies, etc. Given a population of X and an infrastructure level of Y with purpose Z that are impacts ABC...N A=Cost B=Scale C=[whatever] N=... So - when you look at the cost of a nation, we assume that we have an infrastructure maturity/development level of X What does it cost to implpement, upgrade-to, maintain that level. What is the standard. etc... ============= So, when we talk about "saving $X for reinventing Y thing" -- this is a reactionary (albeit valuable) effort... What if we restart rebuilding our societies from ground zero. Lets build a preplanned city (yeah yeah brazilia etc) and first model it out ala simcity. with AI running it over and over again until it outspits a detailed plan, it thinks is ideal and then a big committee of meat-bags review it and fuck it up. Any Gates-level-ish people want to try to build something. Fuck Mars. Earth First.

jesterjester 8y ago
You should visit Korea. This is exactly what happens. New cities are built around that new Samsung office, or that new army base, or that fake, pressured CBD. The cities surrounding the main capital of Korea are marvellous and are all made from scratch in the last 20 years. There is no better model of perfect city.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
samstave 8y ago
Why the fuck was this downvoted so much, comment and contribute please. This is a serious thought experiment.
- sk5t 8y ago
  I didn't vote on your comment, but would opine that it fit the downvote-attracting heuristic of "how freaking stupid we are" + pseudo-thoughtful symbolic algebra + inchoate nerdrage.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

I read the headline and thought, "That's weird, Gates isn't really interested in things that just save money these days." And sure enough, from the article: > "...may help end almost 500,000 infant deaths and save $233 billion annually in costs linked to diarrhea, cholera and other diseases..." So I guess that's Bloomberg for you. 233 billion dollars is a way more interesting lede than a mere half a million lives.

nolok 8y ago
For the public they aim at? Definitely.
slededit 8y ago
Things that aren't cost effective don't normally work at scale. So this is what differentiates it from a feel-good PR stunt that will go nowhere. Cynical to be sure, but grounded in historical precedent.

Bulkington 8y ago

Okay, I'll bite. I was at a urinal today that had a mesh screen of a style I'd never noticed, and I thought: Some guy with a degree in engineering/fluid dynamics has this on his resume. But when you consider there are what, 3.5 billion or so males on the planet, the benefits of urinal hygiene add up pretty quickly. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/urinal-splashback-avoid-byu-wizz-kids_n_4234241.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/urinal-splashback-...

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
A few years ago (maybe 10) we started getting "waterless" urinals in the UK. I assume that was a materials improvement (extreme hydrophobic coatings?). They have an outlet pipe, but no inlet. That must save a lot of piping and water.
- mikro2nd 8y ago
  Not a materials improvement, but an improvement in the shape of the bowl, so mostly a direct result of better hydrodynamic and CAD modeling. Not only do they use less water, but they /smell better/ -- most of the "smell of urine" results from the pee being added to, and reacting with, water, so no water, no noticeable odour.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    They are plastic though, whilst water flushed toilets, eg in pubs, are always (?) ceramic. Seems that it could be retrofitted easily by replacing the trap if the materials aren't important. I wonder if patent expiration is responsible for the apparent increase in use of similar systems. Thanks for your correction. https://www.waterless.com/how-do-waterless-urinals-work/ https://www.waterless.com/how-do-waterless-urinals-work/
    - mikro2nd 8y ago
      Interesting; I've only ever seen ceramic waterless urinals.

mindfulplay 8y ago

This reminds me of software developer who favor deep, technical, architectural work instead of attractive, "sounds cool on paper" sort of work. To an outsider, the animations look cool but the engine that drives the animation is cooler to software engineers. Point being, this is not something a normal philanthropist would imagine being cool and awesome. This takes someone who actually cares about shit (in this case literally) to invest time and money into it.

docbrown 8y ago
One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children grow up healthy. >Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. He also mentions he wrote about toilets before in a 2012 article titled “Reflections on the Reinventing the Toilet Challenge.”[2] Digging deeper into that article brought me to a PDF from the Gates Foundation outlining grants from their 2011 program: “Reinvent the Toilet Challenge” [3] ———— [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVzppWSIFU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVzppWSIFU0 [1]:https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-Poop-to-Potable https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-Po... [2]:https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Reflections-on-the-Reinvent-the-Toilet-Challenge https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Reflections-on-the-Re... [3]:https://docs.gatesfoundation.org/Documents/wsh-reinvent-the-toilet-challenge.pdf https://docs.gatesfoundation.org/Documents/wsh-reinvent-the-...
- nradov 8y ago
  Western toilets seem to work reasonably well with septic tanks in rural areas. Those don't involve sewer lines or treatment plants.
  - aerophilic 8y ago

Jedi72 8y ago

Toilets are a great example of how technological progress isn't just endless improvement. Sometimes we hit complete dead ends even on the simplest problems.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
There have been lots of toilet innovations "recently". Toilets that use excrement to generate electricity, for example, like in this situation https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41680867 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41680867.
pokemongoaway 8y ago
Most things are examples of this - including Intel's latest CPU :) Seriously though, how did the so-called "futurists" get away with applying Moore's law to all innovative processes without being called charlatans? Sky scrapers don't double every 18 months, food has gotten less nutritious... Ditto for education, transportation in the west, all non-emergency medicine, and many who are even "techies" think software has recently been decreasing in quality.

Toilet10 8y ago

It's the natural progression after Windows 10

zukunftsalick 8y ago

TOTO has been researching and improving toilets for many years. I've been to their Toilet museum in Kitakyushu, Japan and it's just amazing the research they put into it, specially in water savings measures. What's missing for them, it's to make them more affordable to everyone.

m_mueller 8y ago
Many Japanese companies could make so much money if they'd figure out the international markets.
- oblio 8y ago
  Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Sony, Nintendo, Canon, Suzuki, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, etc. are household names. I'd say that the Japanese have plenty of internationally-savvy brands, I wouldn't pity them :p
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    For sure. The thing is, Japan is very industrious and innovative in certain areas, it could have many more international players if it would push more abroad. Much of their services sector for example is almost purely concentrated on domestic market. Same goes for heavy industries, household devices and media industries, with some exceptions in gaming. Toto is a perfect example - they were 20+ years early in washlet innovation but never marketed them much abroad. There's a tendency of giving up after just timid marketing campaigns abroad I think. The most successful examples are mainly where they've built up foreign subsidiaries with a certain amount of autonomy, such as Honda & Toyota in US and Europe.
sytelus 8y ago
The problem is that there is no way to make toilets "affordable" for people who really need it. These people who live in 3rd world countries barely manage to put up a roof on their head out of whatever material they can gather around. Their lives often run in debts with zero money to spare on anything. They often don't have money for two proper meals a day. The only "affordable" way for them to have toilet is if you built one for them for free. There are 892 million people without toilet as per Wikipedia. Assuming 10 people sharing toilet, cost of building one toilet is $500 (assuming government gives land for free), solving this problem will require ~$50B investment world wide. This is about half of own money Gates foundation can possibly donate. Also, critical part is ongoing maintenance. So self-maintaining toilets that is very cheap to setup is very critical research to solve this problem.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

Since I recently read The Expanse, I keep thinking, more than usual, about the basic life supporting technologies we'd need to be able to live anywhere else in the solar system. In The Expanse all biological waste goes into the recycler, which, evidently, feeds a bioreactor to general clean water and new food. It sounds like what Gates is keen to see deployed: Human waste > fertiliser > new food and hydrogen > fuel cell > energy & water. We're still a long waste from having anything anywhere near a closed system. Baby steps.

the_duke 8y ago
Side question: are the books sufficiently different to the TV series to warrant a reading?
- anonunt 8y ago
  not seen all of the series but it seems to be mashing together the first few books. IMHO they are probably better than the series but they start getting not so good at some point - I cannot remember if i have read them all but i do remember it getting a bit boring / dragged out towards the end. it is ultimately in that class of media where the goal is not so much about saying something to telling a story as it is about making an ongoing revenue stream. I generally stick away from this stuff but sci-fi books seem to all be going this way these days :(
- gtsteve 8y ago
  A lot of the key events are the same, although the timeline is moved around to introduce some characters sooner. The books go into far more detail about the cultures and their values, and backstory to the characters. I personally recommend it. I'm typically quite busy so I don't really make my way through more than 1-2 books a month but I think I read all the books that are currently out in about 6 weeks.

panabee 8y ago

one potential area of innovation for toilets is in hospitals or pharmacies where people could defecate/urinate in a "smart toilet" which chemically analyzes the waste matter and sends results to a central lab for reporting. when technology gets cheap enough, these smart toilets could then move from healthcare businesses into the home, analyzing waste matter on a daily basis to yield health insights.

breck 8y ago
Anytime this idea comes up I have to mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ A funny parody of SV but also has some neat ideas.

charlysl 8y ago

Gandhi would be proud. https://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/10/01/5-things-mahatma-gandhi-said-about-sanitation/ https://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/10/01/5-things-mahatma-ga... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swachh_Bharat_mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swachh_Bharat_mission

ptd 8y ago
I've always believed that one of the signs that humanity is headed towards a post-scarcity world is when every human has access to a working toilet with a sanitized plumbing system. Glad to see Gates putting so many resources into solving this issue. Perhaps we need to start having a conversation about which 'version' of Gates has had a bigger impact on society(not that it matters, but an interesting intellectual pursuit). I vote for post-Microsoft Gates, though I would imagine I'm in the minority.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

z3t4 8y ago

My guess is that those $200 will end up with a reinvention of the outhouse, but with a computer that will automatically open and close the seat. Seriously though, if you live in your own house and have a fairly big garden, and aint afraid to do some shitty work, then the waste can be used as fertilizer. I mean why does it have to be so complicated !?

esmi 8y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil “The use of unprocessed human feces as fertilizer is a risky practice as it may contain disease-causing pathogens. Nevertheless, in some developing nations it is still widespread. Common parasitic worm infections, such as ascariasis, in these countries are linked to night soil use in agriculture, because the helminth eggs are in feces and can thus be transmitted from one infected person to another person (fecal-oral transmission of disease). These risks are reduced by proper fecal sludge management, e.g. via composting. The safe reduction of human excreta into compost is possible. Some municipalities create compost from the sewage sludge, but then recommend that it only be used on flower beds, not vegetable gardens. Some claims have been made that this is dangerous or inappropriate without the expensive removal of heavy metals.”
- mikro2nd 8y ago
  It doesn't have to be that way: https://humanurehandbook.com/ https://humanurehandbook.com/

dsign 8y ago

>> contained as many as 200 trillion rotavirus cells Journalists can't grasp that saying a rotavirus is a cell is like stretching a wrench to be a SUV? What kind of twisted education system can get somebody to become so proficient with words and so noob in basic science?

zerocrates 8y ago
"200 trillion rotavirus cells," at least in other sources, is written as a direct quotation from Gates.

manav 8y ago

I've always wondered why we never really saw toilets in Star Trek. They never really could re-imagine them back then (or now). I have several fully automatic Totos (which have to abide by California/US water usage rules).. and while the bidets, seat heating, and automisting (it sprays water every 15-30 seconds to try to keep the bowl clean) features are nice the water limits and bowl design make it a pain to clean and maintain if you get what I mean. It's also basically useless if theres no electricity, I believe you can manually flush once if the power goes out with a pull-cord. For western/developed countries I think there is still a big market for a better toilet. In developing countries obviously infrastructure is an issue, but for sewage would a composting toilet not be a viable option? Maybe solar powered for some higher power exhaust and ventilation along with water treatment/sanitation. It's kind of the low tech version of how Star Trek would turn matter into energy.

teddyh 8y ago
> I've always wondered why we never really saw toilets in Star Trek. When the original series was made, you couldn’t show a toilet on TV – it simply wasn’t allowed. But, beginning in 1989 with the release of the feature film Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, you do get the occasional glimpse of an actual toilet here and there. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Toilet http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Toilet
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Allowed as in illegal? Which country, what regulations?
  - arusahni 8y ago
    In the USA: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/potty-time/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/potty-time/
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Which intimates it was allowed but that studio policies, it again intimates, might be responsible. It does say one single TV series never showed a toilet, but only a tank. Interesting taboo nonetheless. I always thought it was just not done because it generally isn't moving a story on to show someone on the toilet. Books don't usually mention characters using the toilet either. I've played videogames with an eating mechanic but never one where you needed to defecate (though Sims could when I last played that).

Uberphallus 8y ago

Surprisingly related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo

alexis_fr 8y ago

Toilet Day was recognized by UN in 2013 and is celebrated on November 19th. I guess this report was issued in preparation. UN still doesn’t recognize International Men’s Day, which is on Nov 19 too and celebrated since 2003 [1]. It’s a bit of a humiliation that they put Toilet Day instead. [1] http://internationalmensday.com http://internationalmensday.com

phot0n 8y ago

I have to ask: the results of this research are amazing, but isn't this something that we should all realize is of material importance? Why did it take the funding of a benevolent economic dictator? If you question my assertion of his economic role, this podcast [1] goes into the questionable aspects of the philanthropy of the Gates Foundation and some of the experiments being run in Africa without popular democratic input or consent. [1] https://medium.com/@CitationsPodcst/episode-46-the-not-so-benevolent-billionaire-part-ii-bill-gates-in-africa-4329389dd4a3 https://medium.com/@CitationsPodcst/episode-46-the-not-so-be...

Brakenshire 8y ago
Most democracies are not even good at funding medical research for dramatic, emotionally immediate diseases like cancer or dementia. One can only imagine the response that tabloids like Bild, the Daily Mail or Fox News would have if any of our countries spent $200m on toilets for the developing world. This is a perfect example of why capitalism works in my opinion, because you have power bases who can independently pursue unfashionable or undramatic ideas without having to pursuade a population of millions to back them in advance.

satysin 8y ago

It many not be cool and glamorous but dealing with human waste in a hygienic way has been one of the biggest benefits to society that not many people think about. Better toilets means better overall hygiene which means less people sick which means a stronger more reliable workforce and less money wasted on easy to prevent illnesses. For all of the negative things Bill Gates did when at Microsoft I am glad to see most of the money he made from those actions are being used for such positive things now rather than just going back into SV startups and the like.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to create the systems that would otherwise keep them healthy, sanitary, safe, well-fed yada yada. Maybe he could publicly ask, how every year, the Minister of Finance in Nigeria publishes a note indicating there is somehow billions of dollars missing from the coffers, that didn't make it over from the Ministry of Petro Resources, i.e Oil [1]? Or the like. Tackling the more obvious, glaring wide-open 'in our faces but we ignore anyhow' forms of corruption might be a good start, and would ultimately yield a lot more than functional toilets. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/nigeria-oil-corruption-buhari/473850/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/ni...

tialaramex 8y ago
One of the things Gates' money pays for is Guinea Worm Eradication. Guinea Worm is literally a parasitic worm. The eradication programme isn't about injecting people with a vaccination, building modern water treatment plants or deploying sophisticated drone technology, it's stuff like: - Here are some free water filters. Filter the water from that murky pond before you drink it. - When you have a worm, don't go in the water. Yes it feels cooler, that's because the worm wants you to go to the water, go to a free treatment clinic instead. - If your neighbour has a worm, go to the clinic, tell them who the neighbour is, you both get cash money and the clinic will treat the worm. Hooray. The biggest obstacles to Guinea Worm Eradication are not about Africa's lack of technology or its corruption. The big obstacles are "insecurity" (ie civil wars or just violent criminals who control outlying areas) and "inaccessibility". Inaccessibility is hard to comprehend for most of us, we're not used to truly being far from civilisation. People who live two days walk from anything resembling a road may have only heard rumours of the existence of the Guinea Worm clinics - for them a parasitic worm chewing its way out of your leg is just a routine hazard of normal rural living. But yeah, Gates is already investing in the very lowest technology fixes, he isn't some tech nutjob who thinks we're going to solve desperate poverty with a Docker image.

majani 8y ago

As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day? Charities work with the premise of preventing suffering, but most developed countries can point to a "great suffering" that made them quickly turn their shit around, akin to an addict hitting rock bottom. I would liken charity in Africa to the enabler who always features in morbidly obese people's lives, constantly bringing the person food out of a misplaced sense of love, where perhaps the truly loving thing to do would be to let the person hit rock bottom and change themselves.

C1sc0cat 8y ago
Would you rather keep the horrific death rate for under 5's
iguy 8y ago
There is something to this. Was it Ethiopia that (at some point) instituted a no-NGOs-on-mondays type policy, after realising that all their ministers seemed to do was have meetings with the many aid organisations? (No link, sorry.) From memory such organisations contributed something like half the government budget, but all with their own concerns & priorities & need for visible success back home. More generally, I think it's a pattern that governments which have to collect taxes from the masses need their consent, and thus tend to behave better, than governments which do not. Whether the non-tax income is from oil money or foreign aid, it probably has some similar effects.
pokemongoaway 8y ago
Funny to see people with real experience being downvoted... Typical leftists. They do the same in the US - destroying communities using welfare. I would explain how this works for the umpteenth time, but leftists never seem to listen anyway (or even bother to summarize their opposition fairly). What makes westerners think they can "save Africa" when their countries are disintegrating so quickly? This is just part of Gate's tax sheltering. Nothing wrong with using legal tax shelters, but he's no savior! I agree with majani's analysis!

cauldron 8y ago

I don't think places that need better toliet could afford or properly run things resulting from this multi millon dollar research.

F_r_k 8y ago
Solar panels were (are) a multi million dollar research project. Yet they cost next to nothing and are really easy to operate and install

perpetualcrayon 8y ago

"And I definitely never thought that Melinda would have to tell me to stop talking about toilets and fecal sludge at the dinner table"

bobbymcbobbob 8y ago

Millions of dollars down the toilet...

harlanji 8y ago

Most people don’t think about all the factors of waste disposal. 200,000,000/100,000/7 = 285 educated peoples’ salary for 7 years. Now thow in expenses. Doesn’t seem excessive given the multitude of issues. What’s the full disposal story? Throw in expenses and my response is “... and?” As a SF homeless guy who frequently tweets about my hardships with pooping/water/grossness, I welcome toilet innovation like this.

gigatexal 8y ago

I’d like to meet Gates one day and shake his hand and just tell him I’m glad he’s doing so much good with his wealth. I take for granted a lot and he’s helping to lift those that would love to have what I have.

inciampati 8y ago
I wish he hadn't accumulated all this wealth at the cost of strangling computing worldwide under his semi-broken operating system. I not a fan of royalty, autocrats, or monarchs. Just because one person is OK when given that power doesn't make it morally just. It is good he is doing nice things, but I find it troubling.
- gigatexal 8y ago
  He was a shrewd maybe ruthless businessman that's for sure -- but he's doing amazing things with his wealth now -- maybe this is his penitence?

jokoon 8y ago

I wonder if Gates could be a candidate to be president. He might win, although I'm curious about what politics he would be for. It sounds like he could lean to the left, and I don't think you could call Bill Gates a socialist.

huhtenberg 8y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/80ow6w/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/dux44u6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/80ow6w/im_bill_gates_... He basically thinks he can accomplish more by not being in the government.

vovo_pap 8y ago

sdfsd

stevespang 8y ago

Gates is in the shitter . . .

ataturk 8y ago

There's a good documentary on Youtube about toilets. Gates has done tremendous work overseas in the area of sanitation. It's a huge problem that needs solving.

keypress 8y ago

Shit article. Basically it says, Gates has poured money into sanitation, and went to an expo. No info about the technology, but there is mention of 5cents a day running cost. That's cheaper than my existing provider, so count me in. Closing quotes were good. “I never imagined that I’d know so much about poop,” Gates said in remarks prepared for the Beijing event. “And I definitely never thought that Melinda would have to tell me to stop talking about toilets and fecal sludge at the dinner table.” Bypass the article.

sebringj 8y ago

The Gates Foundation focuses on real problems and how they can be implemented in the real world to actually solve things that work with the environment, economy and culture symbiotically as opposed to paying for porta-potties and drop shipping them. Knowing how to solve something is the point over blind action that has minimal chance of success. For me, this is the charity worth giving to if you must pick one.

xfactor973 8y ago

Lol it’s called a compost toilet Bill. The technology is already here, it costs almost nothing to construct and use and creates a safe fertilizer at the end of the process. The amount of basic knowledge humanity has forgotten just blows my mind.

jakewins 8y ago
Composting toilets do not produce safe fertilizer. Worse, almost all the mainstream designs require handling the compost while the bacterial load is still very high, because the containers need emptying long before sufficient time to break down pathogens has passed. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC93126/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC93126/
- xfactor973 8y ago
  According to Jenkins that's not true: https://humanurehandbook.com/ https://humanurehandbook.com/
  - jakewins 8y ago
    The NIH study I linked to tested the bacterial load after 6 months of composting in almost 100 toilets. They found 64.2% of them had dangerous levels of coliform bacteria. Jenkins study, on the other hand, does not even attempt to measure the bacterial levels of his toilets - he simply claims thermophilic composting of human waste creates safe humus. The NIH study shows that thermophilic composting is not the mechanism that breaks down bacteria in these toilets; bacterial load is lowered through desiccation, drying out. So - Jenkins does not understand how the composting works in his own product, he has not actually tested the bacterial load, and he is financially benefiting from people thinking his product is safe. You're welcome to think the NIH study is falsified; but I would bet my money on Jenkins being wrong here. Here's his study on the safety of his product: https://humanurehandbook.com/downloads/humanure_sanitation_paper.pdf https://humanurehandbook.com/downloads/humanure_sanitation_p...
    - 8y ago

dmitripopov 8y ago

About 60% of toilets in Russia are how we call them "free fall toilets". Because everything that goes out has to fly more than 3 meters down the hole. My grand-grandma used "human wastes" to manure her garden each spring and it flourished. I guess it won't work nowadays because you've got to eat healthy food to produce healthy waste. But still... $200M?.. Hmm...

samiru 8y ago

What is wrong with composting toilets?

ArrayList 8y ago

That sounds like some interesting shit

JoshTko 8y ago

I wonder how much of the benefit from all this type of work will be wiped out due to climate change. Seems like increased coastal flooding, conflicts over scare resources, droughts, etc. will harm the most vulnerable far more than the benefit of all these programs combined. Like we'll win a battle but will lose the war.

internet555 8y ago

One of my colleagues spent a lot of time working on combination anthropological/aid missions. According to him, toilets/waste disposal was usually the number one way to help people in remote or less developed areas.