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2018 Mac Mini Review

455 points by janvdberg 8y ago

nzjrs 8y ago
I really wish people would more clearly disclose when they have been provided a product to review by the manufacturer.
- msh 8y ago
  Can it really be more clear than this: Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review — 6-core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD — which would cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD)
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    That should really be the very first line of the review instead of being buried at the 10th paragraph...
  - nzjrs 8y ago
    Yeah, how about putting that disclaimer first paragraph, first sentence. I think (and I have no relation to this person) http://lon.tv http://lon.tv is an example of an exemplary and ethical reviewer in this regard.
    - maccard 8y ago
      He puts it at the very first mention of the hardware he's reviewing. I think it's about as clear as you could ask for.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - emptyfile 8y ago
    How about blazing red letters at the top of the page? How about putting "paid review" in the title of the HN submit?
    - randallsquared 8y ago
      Is it "paid" if you have to return it after? Presuming "lent" is being used in it's ordinary meaning...
    - kd5bjo 8y ago
      But is this a paid review? He was lent the hardware, which means he had to return it after he had made his review. While there’s certainly some conflict of interest there, I don’t know anyone that would consider that a payment.
      - ilogik 8y ago
        it's common practice for journalists to get review unit, which they later return. Not just apple, everybody does it. Also, in case you're not familiar with Marco, he was a co-founder of Tumblr, created Instapaper, and is the developer of Overcast (podcast app for iOS). Not sure he needs the money
    - m_mueller 8y ago
      I don't think it's fair to suspect Marco being paid by Apple, he's far from a shill. See for example [1][2]. [1] https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever [2] https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro
    - rsynnott 8y ago
      Most reviews are done on devices _loaned_ by the vendor; Consumer Reports and a couple of others buy their own stuff but they're very much the exception. A paid review is where the vendor pays for the review; that's very different. Basically any professional review of a computer you see will be on a review unit loaned by the vendor.
  - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    > much of which is the SSD A 1 TB SSD is on the order of $150.
    - akfanta 8y ago
      Not saying the price is not outrageous but I found it ironic that you spec maniacs can’t tell the difference between a sata ssd vs pcie ssd. You will be hard pressed to find retail ssd that’s remotely close to the performance in these new macs.
      - makomk 8y ago
        For users that care, a 1TB PCIe SSD currently costs a mere $230 (for the Samsung 970 EVO on Newegg, which has pretty impressive performance). Sure, that's slightly more expensive, but it's nowhere near the premium Apple are charging. On the other hand, users who don't need the extra performance still have to pay through the nose for it - and arguably the difference between SSD and HDD is more important from a user experience perspective than the difference between SATA and PCIe.
      - asfgknionio 8y ago
        You can find PCIe SSDs for about $150. Like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW/dp/B07822Z77M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541509210&sr=8-2&keywords=samsung+m.2+1TB https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW... That isn't a performance monster. But you could get something really top-of-the-line for, say, $400.
        kalleboo 8y ago
        I clicked on your link and it says "SATA 6 Gb/s Interface". is the Amazon description incorrect or did you paste the wrong link?
        IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
        so your last sentence contradicts your first. Why would you want the slow PCIe SSD, you would want a better performing one for the technology being offered. That said, Apple should not be sodering these SSDs to the motherboard.
  - swarnie_ 8y ago
    How is this statement accurate? > which would cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD) A 1TB SSD is maybe $200 retail?
    - fredoliveira 8y ago
      It's accurate maybe not according to the market in general, but it's how the pricing on the BTO works. I tried building a similarly specced Mac Mini just now and upgrading to the 1TB SSD is +$600, whereas 2TB would be +$1,400.
    - makomk 8y ago
      If this was a PC then a 1TB SSD would be about $200, but the 2018 Mac Mini has a non-upgradable soldered-on SSD on the motherboard so you have to pay Apple's build-to-order prices if you want one. (The RAM is technically upgradable but requires a security Torx bit to access just to be annoying.)
    - dagw 8y ago
      A 1TB SSD is maybe $200 retail? For the cheap ones. The faster/better quality ones from Samsung and Intel, which are more comparable to what Apple is using, are $400-500
      - FireBeyond 8y ago
        970 Evo 1TB (3500MB/sec): $228 970 Pro (effectively same speed, but 3bit MLC versus 2bit): $380
      - dethac 8y ago
        The 970 EVO performs noticeably better in almost all benchmark categories (latency, sequential read/write, 4K read/write) than Apple SSDs. The 970 EVO uses MLC. The 970 EVO is $230. Come again?
  - Alex3917 8y ago
    > Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review — 6-core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD The problem is that the i7 has hyper-threading, which creates a giant security hole in your system. I'd be much more interested in the i5 benchmarks, since the i5 (supposedly) does not have hyper-threading.
    - macintux 8y ago
      The "giant security hole" I assume you're referring to isn't particularly worrisome for your own hardware running trusted software. It's more of a problem in a shared environment where you don't know who else is running code.
      - Alex3917 8y ago
        > The "giant security hole" I assume you're referring to isn't particularly worrisome for your own hardware running trusted software. My concern is mainly javascript or webasm running in the browser. Even if there aren't currently any unpatched exploits of this nature, that's no guarantee that there won't be in the future.
        vonmoltke 8y ago
        First, that means it isn't a "giant security hole"; it's a potential security hole. Second, if an exploit is discovered just disable the extra hardware threads until it gets patched. As an aside, I don't know what your "supposedly" about the i5 is supposed to mean. The i5 has only one hardware thread per core.
        Alex3917 8y ago
        > As an aside, I don't know what your "supposedly" about the i5 is supposed to mean. The tech specs page on the Apple site doesn't give the exact part number, so there's always the chance it could be some previously unreleased chip.
bouvin 8y ago
Looks promising. I've ordered one to replace my ancient cheese grater Mac Pro, and it should be quite an update. I've always been fond of the old Mac Pros (still one of most beautiful machines from Apple), but the extensibility through TB3 has rendered many of the advantages moot (and my Mac Pro is stuffed to the gills).
TwoNineA 8y ago
Stop using Geekbench for reviews :(
- tpxl 8y ago
  Why?
- jacobroyquebec 8y ago
  What would you recommend instead?
  - rado 8y ago
    FCPX BruceX
nl 8y ago
This sounds like it’d make a decent development machine - better in many ways than a MPB.
thresh 8y ago
The review doesnt tell you that you cannot upgrade or replace your SSD.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Which also means the entire thing has to be thrown out when the SSD eventually dies. Sure it's going to take a while, but it will happen. Yay consumerism, I guess.
  - LeoPanthera 8y ago
    Technically not. You can boot from an external thunderbolt SSD, which is capable of the same speeds as an internal drive. It’s mildly ugly, but not a showstopper. But I thought that modern SSDs were supposed to last decades, even under heavy use. Is this actually a real problem?
    - throwawayber18 8y ago
      Does anyone know if TRIM is supported using an external SSD over thunderbolt? I remember reading it’s not supported over USB3.
  - pier25 8y ago
    My wife is using her iMac with an external SSD via USB3 since the HDD is too slow. She even can boot her Macbook Air from the macOS installation on that same SSD and keep working.
  - tzs 8y ago
    In late 2014 I replaced the disks in my 2008 Mac Pro at work and my 2009 Mac Pro at home with Samsung EVO 840 and 850 SSD disks. I kept track of accumulated writes. Both machines were heavily used for development and consumer type stuff. No big data stuff or big media stuff. Samsung rates these things at 150 TB write endurance for the 850 and something around 120 TB for the 840. My projection based on that usage is that it will take over 35 years to reach 100 TB. Samsung's ratings are quite conservative. Reviewers that have put these things through write torture tests to the point of error have typically gotten several times Samsung's rating. Around 170 years worth of writes at my usage rate. I haven't seen numbers for Apple's durability, but if it is within even distant sight of Samsung's EVO performance you can expect to have retired the computer for other reasons long before the SSD dies. I'd expect that the only reason the SSD might lead to getting a new computer is that you want a bigger SSD, but even that might not be an issue because Thunderbolt 3 gives pretty good performance for external disks. My Mac Pros have both been retired, replaced with a 2017 iMac (one iMac could replace both office and work computer because we switched to working at home). My Samsung EVOs are now on the iMac in an AKiTiO Thunder3 Quad Mini enclosure. The internal SSD in the iMac gets just short of 2000 MB/s for both read and write, according to Disk Speed Test from Blackmagic Design. The Samsung EVOs get around 465 MB/s write, 520 MB/s read, so 1/4 the internal disk but still fast enough for most purposes. Note that the Samsungs are SATA drives. Something that made more direct use of TB3 could probably go much faster.
LeoNatan25 8y ago
Apple’s new strategy seems to be, instead of having products that sell themselves for their clear benefits, just flood either YouTube casuals or Twitter “celebrities” (depending on target segment) with the highest end config machine and expect praise.
- jpkeisala 8y ago
  Can't say there was too much criticism on this review.
  - LeoNatan25 8y ago
    Well, you know, we waited years for a new Mac mini replacement, and we got one that is very disappointing on the low end, very expensive on the high end, no clear future support, missing features from previous iterations, but hey, it’s amazing machine because Apple finally graced us with it and I got it for free, so let me overlook that 2500$ price tag.
    - winuser 8y ago
      I really wish that devs out there, including the HN community, give PCs and Windows another chance. The PC specs are amazing, value for your money is excellent, the OS is beautiful - the biggest obstacle now is so much open source documentation explains how to install or build on a linux based machine, ignoring the Windows users and making them feel like sh*t for working on a Windows box. If more dev's offered docs around building/compiling on Windows, and Windows support, that would be excellent...
      - redial 8y ago
        Cons: Windows update. I'll pass.
      - rangibaby 8y ago
        What advantages does Windows offer over Linux other than gaming?
kace91 8y ago
A $2500 desktop computer with integrated graphics? Honestly, it feels like a bit of a joke.
- deltron3030 8y ago
  You could add an eGPU over TB3.
  - Keyframe 8y ago
    Lack of GPU wasn't OP's gripe.
    - stevewodil 8y ago
      How else would you interpret the comment? The only thing they mention is the lack of GPU, so I'm curious why you would say that. In any case the price is due to the SSD and RAM upgrades. You can get the i7 with 8gb RAM and 256gb SSD for $1300, which is still pricey but what do you expect from Apple...
      - jsight 8y ago
        You would interpret it as saying that it is overpriced. A high-end GPU at the same price might make sense, but paying that much for RAM and an SSD is nonsense.
      - wlesieutre 8y ago
        An eGPU is going to add $300 for an enclosure and $500 or whatever for the GPU itself, so even with that it gives you a pro desktop option priced cheaper than a Mac Pro. Base price on the Mac Pro has been $3000 even before the trashcan version. With the pattern in all of Apple's recent products, the next one might be more.
      - Keyframe 8y ago
        I've interpreted it as being overpriced, with provision that it might not be if there was a (higher end) GPU inside.
blinkingled 8y ago
The pricing is not really justifiable especially given the most use cases of the Mac mini (Home Theater, NAS, Backup etc.) are better handled by other OSes. The NUC8 with comparable specs (sans 6 core CPU) comes at under half the price! If you needed the 6 cores sure but given most workloads other than encoding don't - it's questionable. Even then the 6C processor doesn't cost enough to make up for the difference.
- empath75 8y ago
  It’s hilarious how often this exact comment gets made in every single new apple product thread everywhere.
  - bnolsen 8y ago
    and its pointing out the truly obvious as well...
    - blinkingled 8y ago
      Well the reviewer seemed to go out of the way to claim the price was justified - I was pointing out that wasn't the case, not that price is high which it undeniably is.
      - Applejinx 8y ago
        Meh… the things I'm looking to do require some fancy outboard and don't ask all that much of the host computer. I've been looking at getting a fairly spiffy newer iMac or medium-old Mac Pro to hook the fancy outboard to (things like video production gear that'll take SDI inputs, external hardware x264 encoding, my MOTU 16A multichannel interface). It's looking very much like all that can be done just as well off the back of this tiny computer that's less than $1000. I was expecting the computer side to have to be more than $2000 to properly handle the fancy outboard. What with the Mini doing certain single-core processing tasks faster than ANY other Mac, and even having some RAM upgradeability (?!?) there is no question that it'd be able to work with the gear I mean. I don't need my host computer to be a quarter the cost of all the outboard gear that plugs into it. It'll be roughly the same cost as each of the pieces of outboard gear. That doesn't seem too expensive at all.
rado 8y ago
In a world of 5K displays and Apple's insistence on smoothness, this GPU just won't work.
- rado 8y ago
  I bought a 2016 13" MBP to use it on an external display. It only works well on 2.5K. Always consider the GPU nowadays.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    That's strange. I use an early 2015 13" model which happily drives two external 4k displays simultaneously. I'm not running them high-DPI though – the performance there is noticeably worse.
    - nik736 8y ago
      I have a 2017 13" and while it was working with a single 4k screen at 60 Hz, it simply isn't fun working on it since everything is laggy and stuttering.
      - matthewmacleod 8y ago
        I guess that high dpi then as well? I found that wasn’t really nice to use because of the stuttering, but native 4K was much better. You need good eyesight though :)
        nik736 8y ago
        Scaled down to 1440p yep. Native 4K is no option :D
    - rado 8y ago
      On scaling other than 2x, it's unusable, while the MBP mobile Radeon Pro is good enough. They should have included that at least.
dev_north_east 8y ago
I bought a mac mini ten years ago (for about E400?). It still lives on today as my parent's desktop. I passed to them many years ago and not one problem. Fantastic machine. However I cannot justify the prices they're asking for these ones. I'm looking for a new machine for myself now, but no way will these be considered.
- adamlett 8y ago
  Let me get this straight: You would not consider paying a premium for a machine even though your experience tells you, that it has a useful life of 10+ years?
  - dev_north_east 8y ago
    1 - it wouldn't be suitable for me now (nor for the past few years). 2 - I remember there being a big differential in equivalently priced machines back then. One of my current work Dell workstations is a much cheaper option than this Mac, much better specced and I've had no issues with it for over two years. 3 - It's £800 for the thing, seems way out of line with inflation compared to what I bought then.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      > seems way out of line with inflation compared to what I bought then Can't speak for European pricing, but the base model Mac Mini 10 years ago cost $599, and adjusted for inflation it would cost $750 today ($50 less than the current base model).
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    All of my experiences with Mac have been like this. Got a MBP for college, 2009. Still running as my mom's laptop in 2018. Meanwhile my dad's 2 year old dell has endless problems, it's incredibly cheap, despite having better internal hardware. It's slower, needed tons of configuration out of the box, and Windows 10 is just awful. My dad's laptop constantly has issues. My mom? Never once. It just works. I will gladly pay for a product that is like that. I don't care what an SSD costs on Amazon. I don't want to spend time looking up components and motherboards and bargain hunting. I don't care about gaming and therefore the GPU. People on here look at numbers and costs but they never consider the customer experience. It's far more damning of Apple to have the bad keyboard on the new MBPs than have some overpriced hardware. Ask 99% of people on the street if they even know what an i7 is.
jpkeisala 8y ago
Slightly off topic but is there cloud Mac/Xcode that I subscribe to for my occasional App development?
- rado 8y ago
  Maybe https://www.macstadium.com https://www.macstadium.com
- sanketskasar 8y ago
  Checkout Macstadium. https://www.macstadium.com https://www.macstadium.com
- aequitas 8y ago
  There probably is but it will be built on top of Mac mini or Mac Pro farms as Apple does not allow virtualization of macOS on any hardware not carrying a Apple logo (I believe that is how it is actually stated in the terms even). So of it is available it might not be a cheaper option. But I believe Travis CI does have macOS workers available for free, but they might be scarce in available time slots.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    I've been using MacInCloud at work for the past 2 years or so, renting a single server for use as a VSTS/Azure DevOps build agent server, for iOS builde. I'm very happy with it - the server we have is fast enough, both CPU and disk, and it's been rock solid. I've only contacted their support team about billing stuff, but they were responsive and helpful. Disclaimer: no affiliation, just a happy user.
- robertAngst 8y ago
  Tag for interest, I have no interest in using Apple for anything, but I need to compile my RN app.
- jaxondu 8y ago
  hostmyapple macincloud
ctz 8y ago
> $2499 (much of which is the SSD) Where 'much' is approximately 5-10%.
- faitswulff 8y ago
  I think it refers to the fact that if you configure it on Apple.com, a 2TB SSD adds +$1,600 to the price tag.
- fredoliveira 8y ago
  Configuring a mac mini on Apple.com now: +$600 for the 1TB, so, 40%. I'd say it qualifies as "much" :)
- ukdeveloper 8y ago
  In terms of the retail price. More like 30-35%. The 1TB SSD is a $800 option on the 128GB base model, and a $600 option on the 256GB model. The 2TB SSD is an even more eye-watering $1600 option from the base model.
dTal 8y ago
>Number one — and this is a big one these days, especially for this product — is that it’s not any less useful or versatile than the outgoing Mac Mini, including the generous assortment of ports. If the previous one served a role for you, the new one can probably do it just as well, and probably better and faster, with minimal donglage. Wow. This is what it's come to. "It hasn't gotten worse! Yayy!"
- lucideer 8y ago
  > "Unless you used optical audio, audio input, or the SD-card reader" Craftily hidden in a footnote for that paragraph.
  - someguydave 8y ago
    I use optical audio in a mac mini as a home theater TV driver. No thanks.
    - someguydave 8y ago
      Now that I think about it, axing the optical audio ports was probably a deliberate move by Apple to nudge home TV users of mac minis into using Apple TVs, where they have way more control over the interface and content. edit: apparently Apple TV doesn't have optical audio either.
      - nsnick 8y ago
        The AppleTV doesn't have optical audio either.
        someguydave 8y ago
        Ok well I guess that's even dumber than I thought. I hope apple takes that $2 per device savings in optical audio parts laughing to the bank.
      - bluegreyred 8y ago
tonetheman 8y ago
TLDR - Overpriced. Buy something else.
me551ah 8y ago
A 2500$ windows desktop will give you. 1. A much better discrete GPU which can run titles in 4k. 2. Ability to run games cause windows has DirectX. 3. Ability to run Linux natively using WSL. 4. Expandability - You can add components like more RAM or an additional GPU.
- OJFord 8y ago
  > 3. Ability to run Linux natively using WSL. But what are you doing in WSL that you can't do on a Mac (or, of course, a Linux machine) without a 'subsystem'? Sincere question, because the 'Mac is not Linux' things that wind me up tend to require X11 to fix, WSL would be no different.
  - me551ah 8y ago
    Mac ships with their own posix subsystem, WSL allows you to install a bunch of popular flavours of linux on top of Windows. I personally run Arch Linux and have access to a lot more bleeding edge packages.
    - rswail 8y ago
      To clarify, Mac ships with a native Unix [1], derived from BSD, not a posix subsystem. It has its own init (launchd) and its own GUI, but most of it is a Unix. Using Macports or homebrew gets you most of the packages that are available for the various Linuxes, GNU utilities etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29
    - OJFord 8y ago
      > WSL allows you to install a bunch of popular flavours of linux on top of Windows. I personally run Arch Linux Oh, I didn't know that, that does make it a bit more interesting to me! I still think I'd be frustrated (as I am on Mac) with the lack of a configurable (or even of a choice of) window manager though.
- wild_preference 8y ago
bo0tzz 8y ago
"...cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD)" The cheapest SSD I can find goes for €129.47, and it doesn't seem to get up to much more for consumer SSDs. Unless this SSD has some crazy specs that I'm missing, it seems seriously overpriced to me.
- kgermino 8y ago
  Little of both. The SSD is a very fast 1TB model running on Apple’s custom controller (so you can’t just compare to a random one on Amazon). It’s also an obscenely high priced upgrade. Probably more column B (expensive) than A (good)
  - thomassnielsen 8y ago
    It's the fastest SSD on the consumer market by a good margin. My main gripe with it is that Apple doesn't provide any affordable option for large, slow storage. Of course you can always go external, but then it won't be so much mini anymore.
    - dethac 8y ago
      Except... it's not. We know that larger SSDs are faster... but if we compare a 1TB Apple SSD in the iMac Pro to a 500GB 970 EVO (around $120)... the 970 EVO is at least equal, if not faster in performance.
- xuki 8y ago
  There is a hefty premium on top of any upgrades from the base model, but Apple SSD with the T2 chip is insanely fast - check out the benchmark for the iMac Pro and MacBook Pro 2018.
- veidr 8y ago
  Apple charges +$600 (USD) for a 0.25 → 1TB SSD upgrade. I heard some complaints, but was all like "Yeah, but modern Apple SSDs are 3GB/sec, that is pretty good, bros..." My coworker clued me in, though: 1TB samsung 970Pro M.2 (3GB/s) was as low as AUD$304 here just yesterday. Thats ~USD$215. I don't usually mind paying the _AppleTax_ but that is ridiculously overpriced. I buy all sorts of overpriced Apple shit, but that is so overpriced it's kinda offensive.
logifail 8y ago
I bought my first-ever Mac just over three weeks ago, a refurbished Mac Mini (2010 version, with Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, upgraded by seller to 8GB and 240GB SSD and High Sierra). Pretty happy so far.
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
Ugh, all the comments about how it's overpriced in this thread. "This is crazy! You can just build your own for half the price!" Snooze. You could have made this comment about most of Apple's products for decades. Some people apparently just don't get it, so here it is from my perspective: As long as Apple does what I need, I'm not going to buy anything else. I'm definitely not going to build my own PC to save a few bucks. I recognize that not everyone is in this position, but my time is valuable and the difference between "click buy" and "research and buy a ton of parts and assemble them and install software and drivers and blah blah blah" is worth thousands of dollars to me. I rely on a Macbook Pro for work every day. I generally keep them for 2-3 years, and given my preferences, work setup, software, and how much money I make with these things, I'd pay triple (or more) what Apple currently charges for them vs. getting some shitty Dell or Lenovo and hassling with Windows or Linux. That's not to say everyone should feel that way, but that's my situation, and I'm not alone.
- tomduncalf 8y ago
  100% this, but for people who don't make money from using the computer I can see how the high prices are a real problem
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    But Apple's strategy has never been to go after the price-sensitive market. Complaining that their prices are way higher than commodity parts you can piece together yourself makes zero sense. That's like complaining that a Ferrari is way more expensive than a Honda.
    - tomduncalf 8y ago
      Yep, good point. I read someone online commenting that Apple's "price sensitive" option are second-hand devices as they (historically) remain updated and working well for a long time. Hopefully the new 3rd generation keyboard will stand up to years of use - I'm not at all confident that my 2017 will have much resale value due to the keyboard issues.
Down_n_Out 8y ago
I've been an avid Apple user and supporter for many years, preached about the stability and the superior (tongue in cheek) hardware. I was waiting for a decent replacement for an ageing mini, but seriously Apple, at these prices?? It's insane. I've made up my mind after I saw the Apple event and reading/following the news of them hiding their sales numbers from now on [0]. I've switched over to Linux as my main desktop completely. While I've been using Windows for years, Windows 10 is just not doing it for me, even with WSL, it just feels limited and unpolished. Anyway, rant over. [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-the-going-gets-tough-apple-hides-its-numbers-2018-11-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-the-going-gets-tough-...
jillesvangurp 8y ago
People are missing the point about the integrated graphics. For me this is a feature not a bug because it has USB-C instead. That means that instead of hopelessly compromising thermals and power supply with some power hungry, yet limited GPU (because of the small form factor) you simply buy the CPU and memory that you need. It simplifies the job of keeping it cool. CPUs are evolving a lot slower these days. This one should last you many years before it becomes a problem. Having upgradeable memory all the way to 64GB means that too is not going to be a problem any time soon. It means that a mac mini should have a serviceable life of 3-5 years or more if you are less of a power user. Additionally, you plugin an eGPU of your choice and additional storage via USB-C. Better, when improved eGPUs become available, you can sell your old one and buy a new one without having to tear the machine apart. They also don't overtax and compromise your power supply or cooling. I currently have an imac 5K that is nearly 5 years old now. I maxed it out at the time with all the bells and whistles and it has served me well. So, money well spent despite the shocking price initially. I'd totally consider spending 3-4K on a setup with a mac mini, decent eGPU + monitor, and external ssd storage (I actually have a Samsung 2TB T5 already). The new imac pro would cost more and deliver less value. What I like about this setup is that it is completely modular and I can replace individual components without having to worry breaking the other components. I imagine the mac pro next year will also emphasize expansion and upgrades through USB-C rather than internals. Basically the old model without dedicated GPU and upgradable Xeon CPUs + Memory would be exactly the right product right now. Egpus can be replaced easily and with a solid base configuration, a pro machine should have a long productive life.
- VHRanger 8y ago
  You have small form factor PCs with GPUs. But the exterior won't be as pretty because you have much more thermal to deal with
  - whywhywhywhy 8y ago
    > But the exterior won't be as pretty There are actually plenty of nice looking small form factor PC cases that can house a full GPU - http://www.louqe.com/ http://www.louqe.com/ - https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php I'd actually say this is one area of the custom PC market that's well served by nice design.
torgian 8y ago
I’m pretty sure I would rather buy an iMac than a Mac mini. An iMac at least comes with a display, and the base 4K version is competitive in price and features as far as I can tell.
- kylec 8y ago
  I bought an iMac last year and regretted it. The performance was fine, but I ended up disliking the fact that it was an all-in-one. The fact that you can get iMac performance without a display attached is a big feature of the new Mac mini for me.
  - torgian 8y ago
    Yeah. I guess if portability is a plus, that would be better than an iMac. I move once a year so that wouldn’t really be a problem for me, but if you need a Mac for portability, why not just get a MacBook? I think the Mac mini is at an awkward price point. You need a monitor, keyboard and mouse which cost you extra. At that point you can get a base MacBook Pro. I think it would only really make sense for businesses
yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
I'm just waiting for the same article but for Macbooks. I can't wait to throw my money at Apple when they bring back MagSafe and scissor switches. Not holding my breath though.
matthewmacleod 8y ago
I'm in the market for a new machine, but unfortunately that GPU is too anaemic to make sense. It's a shame, because otherwise it looks like a pretty great proposition. An eGPU is an option, but at £500+ and twice the size of the machine, not a vary attractive one. I guess the options are throwing down the cash for a 15" MacBook Pro, or waiting to see what they come up with for the Mac Pro next year…
- nik736 8y ago
  I have the same issue, I don't understand why they are able to fit a Vega in the 15" MBP but not in the larger Mac Mini. 15" MBP is not an option for me because of the touchbar and keyboard, so I am basically out of options.
  - hjnilsson 8y ago
    Yea, it could at least have been an option. But my guess is they didn't want too many SKUs, and wanted to hit a price-point of less than $1000.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      Also they need to preserve a market for the "modular" Mac Pro next year
  - Joeri 8y ago
    The mini has a 65w tdp cpu, vs the mbp’s 45w cpu. That means more heat to dump from a smaller surface area. I’m not surprised they couldn’t fit a warmer gpu in the thermal profile.
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  There are some “puck-sized” eGPUs, somewhere between the size of an AppleTV and a Mac Mini, have chips comparable to the high end MacBooks Pro options.
ksec 8y ago
It doesn't seems Apple is interested in using AMD CPU / APU in their products, otherwise they would have a decent iGPU along side. I was expecting the Intel + AMD GPU combo to end up in this Mac mini, turns out not.
benologist 8y ago
Is anyone worried that Apple's transition to their own CPUs will render these x86 machines obsolete very fast? How long did it take for the pre-x86 Macs to fall behind when the software started focusing on x86 instead?
- H1Supreme 8y ago
  I remember when they went to x86, but I think the landscape is different now. I was working in graphic design at the time, and I didn't know a single person outside of that field who used a mac. Now, I'm surprised when someone's laptop isn't a Mac. So, I imagine there's a lot more critical software that needs ported. One area I can speak to now, which I'm heavily invested in, is audio applications. It's the main reason I still run a Mac. Upgrades are usually slow and cautious in this domain. I'm still on 10.12.6, and have no plan on upgrading anytime soon. I, for one, am quite concerned. It used to be in regards to performance, but now it's all the applications and plugins that will need ported. There's a very real chance I'll go to Windows if it looks like a nightmare. Would love to see a Ubuntu variant come out of the ashes of such a thing, but that's probably a pipe dream.
- rangibaby 8y ago
  Apple waited for 5 years to release a version of OSX that couldn’t run PPC apps on x86 Macs. Last PPC Mac: 2005 First x86 Macs: 2006, PPC apps work on x86 Macs Adobe CS3 (first native x86 version): 2007 OSX 10.5, last OSX version released for PPC Macs: 2007 -- OSX 10.6 (x86 only, PPC apps still work): 2009 Adobe CS5 (x86 only): 2010 OSX 10.7, PPC apps no longer work: 2011
- Bad_CRC 8y ago
  Yep, it's time for my to change the laptop at work, I currently have an old i5 Macbook Pro and it held for +5 years. Even my personal macbook air is from late 2010 (reddit + spotify machine) I doubt that any mac today would held for another 6 or 7 years.
LeicaLatte 8y ago
The pricing is a joke. Refurbised Mac Pro with dual GPUs and SSDs are much better value.
karpodiem 8y ago
Can't replace the SSD? Pass.
drej 8y ago
Macs aside - this video clearly shows the wonderful experience you can get when an audio/video producer cares about audio quality. Spoken word recorded with clear audio is so lovely. I listen to podcasts and audiobooks on a daily basis and I really really appreciate someone putting the effort into this. Thanks!
- bitdestroyer 8y ago
  There's a running joke on ATP that Marco buys just tons of mics. Not to mention he made Overcast, so he knows audio pretty well.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    I think he just buys tons of everything.
    - ihuman 8y ago
      And then he sells them
- cptskippy 8y ago
  I had a hard time watching him talk because the over dubbed audio is completely out of sync. It's really bad right around the 1 minute mark. I ended up minimizing the window and just listening. I honestly don't care for this audio, it's crystal clear and perfect for a podcast but the video is of him sitting in front of a window with a dog and the absence of any environmental noise is odd.
  - gnomesteel 8y ago
    Agreed. It's drifting around and rarely in sync.
    - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 8y ago
      Watching on iOS I had no sync problems. Maybe it’s a transcoding problem caused by YouTube? At 1:25 you can clearly hear how when he turns away from the camera the audio changes as well. I’d say the audio is recorded live, not dubbed.
thirdsun 8y ago
Side discussion: What are everyone's thoughts when it comes to external HiDPI monitor options to use with this Mac Mini? Ideally I'd want 5K displays (I'm used to the iMac 5K) but it seems that LG's UltraFine is the only real option and the rest of the industry has settled on 4K/UHD at 27 inches, which results in a) limited screen real estate due to an effective resolution of 1080p at 2x scaling and b) slightly less pixel density. I maybe fine with b) but both issues considered I'm seriously wondering why UHD displays at 27" are so popular - it seems like a subpar and regretful combination. Are my worries unwarranted?
- antsar 8y ago
  Nobody's forcing you to use 2x scaling. I use two 27" UHD displays with Debian/GNOME. The system-level scaling factor is 1, and I adjust application zoom levels as needed. I typically divide each display in half, and each half comfortably fits one browser window, mail client, terminal, Spotify, etc.
  - thirdsun 8y ago
    1x scaling will be too small for UHD at 27". MacOS only works probably with integer-based scaling - 1x, 2x, theoretically 3x. Everything inbetween will lead to blurry text/assets and decreased performance since the output as a whole will be scaled and downsampled by the GPU. I'm working a lot with text and a sharp/crisp display is important to me. 2x scaling is the only proper option in my opinion.
    - orangecat 8y ago
      Everything inbetween will lead to blurry text/assets and decreased performance since the output as a whole will be scaled and downsampled by the GPU. I run 2 27" 4k displays off a MacBook with integrated graphics, both scaled at 1.5x to "look like" 2560x1440. It works fine; text is not quite as sharp at it would be at 2x, but it's far better than it would be on an actual 1440p display. I haven't noticed decreased performance, but I'm not doing heavy graphics work. Agreed that display manufacturers are messing this up. 4k displays should be either 20-24" for 2x scaling or 40+ inches for unscaled; 27" displays should be 5k.
maxxxxx 8y ago
I really don't like when reviewers test the high end configuration only. This makes the review pretty useless for most of us who may be considering a lower spec.
- bluedino 8y ago
  Car manufacturers rarely send their low end models out to reviews as well.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - hi5eyes 8y ago
    and Ferrari sends tuned versions of the car
    - LeonM 8y ago
      Basically all performance car manufacturers send out cars to journalists with a higher power setting, top tier tires, optimized suspension settings, etc. But journalists know that.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Some car companies not only send out tuned versions of the cars, but a team to tune the car during the review. You see this on The Grand Tour all the time.
- leejoramo 8y ago
  Well it was an early Apple provided review unit. But more than that, Marco Arment actually uses high end rigs in his daily work and describes pushing them to the limit. It is highly appropriate for Marco to review a Mac Mini with high end specs, and I find it informative
- minikites 8y ago
  He did test one thing to match a lower end configuration: >Interestingly, I disabled Turbo Boost to simulate the base i3 model’s thermals, and couldn’t get the fan to spin up audibly, no matter what I did. Those who prioritize silence under heavy loads should probably stick with the i3.
bluedino 8y ago
I would have liked to see performance compared to the 2018 15” MacBook Pro, since they are around the same cost. The 13-inch really got its butt kicked.
robertsd247 8y ago
There is zero justification for the pricing. It needs to be starting around $399. Apple is still working the privileged pricing model. Considering it has year old processor and 8GB RAM. For $800 an i5 and 16GB should be standard. I can forgive that 128GB SSD but not the CPU or RAM. Side note, why is a computer only for games, streaming, and mining bitcoin? It that what the end user experience is limited to?
- copperx 8y ago
  I agree that Apple has gone completely crazy with the markup, but who is saying those are the only applications for computers???
- douglaswlance 8y ago
  Apple uses value-based pricing, not cost-based pricing.
  - robertsd247 8y ago
    Fair enough, but it "values" the Mac Mini at $799 with a year-old i3 and 8GB of RAM? It valued the last one at $499 and it was 5 years old. I guess what the market will bear is really true...for Apple.
    - fetus8 8y ago
      Keep in mind that the old Mini, priced at $499, only had a Laptop Dual Core i5 CPU. The new ones all have Desktop grade Quadcore CPUs in them. This isn't a totally justifiable reason for the price increase, but it is seemingly a large performance increase.
    - douglaswlance 8y ago
      It's not about how much Apple values their products. Value-based pricing is based on how much value the customer gets out of the product.
      - 8y ago
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
> ... not a low end product anymore... Apple is clearly pushing everything towards a more luxury high end. More than ever, they're pushing the market to see how far they can go. They're pricing me out. I can afford their stuff, I just find it hard to justify it.
wufufufu 8y ago
I'm impressed, but I am also not sure how accurate the benchmarks he's using are for replicating real-world load. I actually think it's pretty cost effective if you go for 32GB RAM instead of 64GB, and keep the baseline 256GB SSD storage. It comes out to $1,899. With 64GB RAM and 2TB storage, it comes out to $4,099, which is a huge markup for things that can be self-upgraded on a PC. Even $2,699 for the 64GB version doesn't seem that bad for effectively the best MacOS running computer you can get currently.
- neolefty 8y ago
  How hard is it to upgrade yourself?
  - tkxxx7 8y ago
    According to the article, you just need a T6.
singularity2001 8y ago
Best display to buy with the new mini is probably: Eizo Flexscan ev2785 4k 27"
joshstrange 8y ago
The review was good but I'm honestly surprised that Marco, of all people, would have such a badly dubbed video. Get Casey Liss to help you, his audio in videos isn't as good as your audio but it matches his voice at least. #AccidentalBadVideoDubbing
Cenk 8y ago
Off topic, but Marco has lost a bunch of weight! Not sure I love the beard though.
kbumsik 8y ago
How is it compared to Intel's Hades Canyon? I'm thinking between those two mini-sized computers.
- benologist 8y ago
  I have the Hades' predecessor, one advantage of this line is a pair of M.2 slots in RAID that will later hold 4tb, 8tb, etc NVMe sticks allowing massively more capacity at similar speed to the Mini's storage. The AMD graphics in the Hades' is vastly better, but still significantly inferior to anything you will connect via eGPU. A lot of casual usage will not require the Hades' GPU but you'll always pay a power/thermal price for it. As resolutions increase, or depending on your requirements now, you'll probably be forced to pair it with an eGPU because it really only excels at 1080p for 3d stuff afaik. One nice thing from the Hades' predecessor is fanless cases, I don't know if they've emerged yet for the Hades Canyon but going fanless is really amazing. Prior to that it could be loud, and the Hades added a second loud fan for the GPU.
testaccit450 8y ago
The new mac mini seems like a straightforward improvement from the other versions with few things getting worse. I love that.
mywacaday 8y ago
Can anyone explain the market for this to me? In Ireland Mac Mini: 8th Gen i5 Processor/8GB RAM/256GB SSD €1269 Dell XPS 13 with: 8th Gen i5 Processor/8GB RAM/256GB SSD €1189
- thirdsun 8y ago
  Unless the XPS can run macOS the comparison will be useless to the target audience of the Mac Mini. Furthermore both are very different product categories.
invinciblehog 8y ago
I wonder how long the Mac mini will stick around
shurcooL 8y ago
> Unfortunately, we still don’t have any great standalone 5K displays. (The LG UltraFine isn’t.) What’s wrong with the LG display? It gets a lot of criticism, but I find it hard to understand why. There was an interference shielding issue, but it was fixed more than a year ago. For anyone familiar with the matter, what is it that makes the LG not great?
- nicksergeant 8y ago
  I have two of them and they are both excellent. I can see no discernible difference between them and my 5k iMac. They are expensive, though.
- scaasic 8y ago
  My personal issue with it is the lack of standard inputs, which make it impossible to use with an eGPU setup (excluding the Blackmagic, but that's a whole other kind of subpar). The data ports being exclusively USB-C is probably an issue for some as well.
  - kylec 8y ago
    If your complaint about the Blackmagic eGPU being “subpar” was the power of the Radeon Pro 580, you’ll be happy to hear that one with a Vega 56 is now available: https://store.apple.com/xc/product/HMQT2VC/A https://store.apple.com/xc/product/HMQT2VC/A
    - scaasic 8y ago
      It was partially the 580, partially the inability to swap out the card. It's nice that they're offering Vega options now, but for that model I'd be paying a $500 premium over a comparable setup, with TB3 out being the only benefit. I'll stick with my Dell P2415Q + Akitio Node for now.
- MarkMc 8y ago
  I found that the LG UltraFine is by far the best monitor for my MacBook Pro. Nothing else comes close.
mohsen1 8y ago
I'm looking forward to see server blades made out of those Macs. It's just satisfying to see how they are built
yuhong 8y ago
As a side note, it is a good thing that Apple is supporting 16Gbit DDR4 on time and schedule. (this was not always true in the past)
ataturk 8y ago
I have the 2014 Mini with 4GB. It is depressingly slow and the horrible part is that it replaced a slightly older Mini that died but that had 16GB of RAM in it which was my little workhorse. When I bought the 2014 one, I didn't know the RAM was soldered on. I have suffered for three years like this (I have other computers, but this Mini is the main "family" computer for storing photos and documents and gets backed up daily). It's relatively important even though we all have other computers at our house. What is most sad is that a colleague gave me a 2010 i5 Mini with 8GB of RAM and that one is actually faster than the 2014 Mini with 4GB of RAM--OSX needs to manage memory better! WTF Apple? Why sell computers with RAM spec that doesn't work and then make them non-upgradeable? It's inexcusable. My question is, should I get one of these Minis and is the RAM upgradeable? Or should I buy a refurb Mac Pro and get off the Mini ecosystem entirely? Again, I need a little desktop workhorse that isn't an all-in-one kind of dealie. Laptops are great, but I want a desktop type machine with ports for what I do with it. I had a 2015 MB Pro in 2015/2016, loved that one. My current work machine is the 2017 Pro laptop, it's not quite as good. Dongles suck! I was able to re-utilize that RAM from the defunct Mini by getting a refurb 2014 MB Pro for my daughter and adding it to that one instead. That one has also been a great little workhorse at our house.
noja 8y ago
Too expensive. If you just want a redundant NAS everything else is cheaper. If you want a non-redundant NAS asingle disk NAS enclosure costs 54 bucks: https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G151505170472 https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_cod...
- user68858788 8y ago
  I'm fairly new to this NAS stuff. Is there a reason to have one hard drive per sever, or is that just a limitation of this one in particular? I'm sure that RAID over a network of hard drives is a solved problem, but I wouldn't know where to start.
  - noja 8y ago
    It's a limitation of that odroid enclosure. You could do raid over iscsi (but I wouldn't). Buffalo do a 2 drive enclosure very cheap, but I'd go for a synology or qnap enclosure for a bit more money.
xedarius 8y ago
I can upgrade the ram, the most useful piece of information in the review. If I could upgrade the SSD too, I'd be tempted.
hartator 8y ago
I wonder how it'll perform as a "super" Apple Tv.
ender89 8y ago
This is a really weird device. The mac mini has long been used as a home theater pc of the apple ecosystem, due to it's formfactor and being the one apple device that didn't come with its own 20 inch screen or 3 foot tall tower. Apple tv, for all it's shortcomings, has sort of supplanted that and you're much better off sticking that under your tv and running your plex server somewhere else. So now we have a mac mini which is too expensive to be a home theater pc or to be stuck in a closet serving media, and is comparably priced with macs that have actual screens. So its like good for someone who for some reason doesn't want to carry a macbook around but wants a semi-portable workstation? or someone who wants an iMac with a bigger screen? It's not useful as a mac mini, and it's pretty redundant thanks to every use case being covered by an existing mac. Who is this device for? Who is buying this over a macbook or imac?
- lostgame 8y ago
  Weirdly, it has a lot of enterprise-scale applications and implications with it's ability to accept 64GB of RAM. We're replacing a ton of those 'garbage-can' Mac Pro models with them. Lord knows we don't need kick ass graphics cards. In terms of consumer-level applications, it definitely seems like the sell used to be the pleasant $500 price point. The G4 Mac Mini, at $499, was my very first entry into the Mac world. I certainly couldn't afford $1,100 for an iBook G4 in High School.
- Humphrey 8y ago
  Many people. This is targeted at professionals who need a max with good performance. Eg. Software developers. I can imagine this being a popular device.
- gurkendoktor 8y ago
  I've bought two Minis as dev machines in the past. Portability was part of it. I also saved a bunch of money because I already had a full set of peripherals. Edit: Upgradable RAM and the ability to install a second drive was also great in retrospect, I wonder if the latter is still possible with the 2018 model. And I'm not sure whether glossy Retina screens are really the best bang for the buck for developers. I often wish I had dual 1440p or a ginormous 21:9 screen when I'm dealing with complex projects.
catchmeifyoucan 8y ago
This article makes me happy. To see that Apple is listening. I'm super excited for the next Macbook Pro,and I really hope we really get something that is better, more reliable and practical. I'll be thrilled if they can find their groove again for the Macbook Pro
jackfrodo 8y ago
>Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review Is this common, for a company to lend a product for review, instead of just giving it to the reviewer?
msie 8y ago
I am eagerly awaiting iFixit's teardown of the new mac mini.
locusm 8y ago
Having a user serviceable M.2 slot would have made this the perfect Mac for me. Lets say I have Applecare for the first 3 years and the SSD dies on the 4th year, what are my options? Replace entire logic board with new CPU & SSD?

455 points by janvdberg 8y ago

nzjrs 8y ago

I really wish people would more clearly disclose when they have been provided a product to review by the manufacturer.

msh 8y ago
Can it really be more clear than this: Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review — 6-core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD — which would cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD)
- ElBarto 8y ago
  That should really be the very first line of the review instead of being buried at the 10th paragraph...
- nzjrs 8y ago
  Yeah, how about putting that disclaimer first paragraph, first sentence. I think (and I have no relation to this person) http://lon.tv http://lon.tv is an example of an exemplary and ethical reviewer in this regard.
  - maccard 8y ago
    He puts it at the very first mention of the hardware he's reviewing. I think it's about as clear as you could ask for.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- emptyfile 8y ago
  How about blazing red letters at the top of the page? How about putting "paid review" in the title of the HN submit?
  - randallsquared 8y ago
    Is it "paid" if you have to return it after? Presuming "lent" is being used in it's ordinary meaning...
  - kd5bjo 8y ago
    But is this a paid review? He was lent the hardware, which means he had to return it after he had made his review. While there’s certainly some conflict of interest there, I don’t know anyone that would consider that a payment.
    - ilogik 8y ago
      it's common practice for journalists to get review unit, which they later return. Not just apple, everybody does it. Also, in case you're not familiar with Marco, he was a co-founder of Tumblr, created Instapaper, and is the developer of Overcast (podcast app for iOS). Not sure he needs the money
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    I don't think it's fair to suspect Marco being paid by Apple, he's far from a shill. See for example [1][2]. [1] https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever [2] https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    Most reviews are done on devices _loaned_ by the vendor; Consumer Reports and a couple of others buy their own stuff but they're very much the exception. A paid review is where the vendor pays for the review; that's very different. Basically any professional review of a computer you see will be on a review unit loaned by the vendor.
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  > much of which is the SSD A 1 TB SSD is on the order of $150.
  - akfanta 8y ago
    Not saying the price is not outrageous but I found it ironic that you spec maniacs can’t tell the difference between a sata ssd vs pcie ssd. You will be hard pressed to find retail ssd that’s remotely close to the performance in these new macs.
    - makomk 8y ago
      For users that care, a 1TB PCIe SSD currently costs a mere $230 (for the Samsung 970 EVO on Newegg, which has pretty impressive performance). Sure, that's slightly more expensive, but it's nowhere near the premium Apple are charging. On the other hand, users who don't need the extra performance still have to pay through the nose for it - and arguably the difference between SSD and HDD is more important from a user experience perspective than the difference between SATA and PCIe.
    - asfgknionio 8y ago
      You can find PCIe SSDs for about $150. Like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW/dp/B07822Z77M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541509210&sr=8-2&keywords=samsung+m.2+1TB https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW... That isn't a performance monster. But you could get something really top-of-the-line for, say, $400.
      - kalleboo 8y ago
        I clicked on your link and it says "SATA 6 Gb/s Interface". is the Amazon description incorrect or did you paste the wrong link?
      - IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
        so your last sentence contradicts your first. Why would you want the slow PCIe SSD, you would want a better performing one for the technology being offered. That said, Apple should not be sodering these SSDs to the motherboard.
- swarnie_ 8y ago
  How is this statement accurate? > which would cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD) A 1TB SSD is maybe $200 retail?
  - fredoliveira 8y ago
    It's accurate maybe not according to the market in general, but it's how the pricing on the BTO works. I tried building a similarly specced Mac Mini just now and upgrading to the 1TB SSD is +$600, whereas 2TB would be +$1,400.
  - makomk 8y ago
    If this was a PC then a 1TB SSD would be about $200, but the 2018 Mac Mini has a non-upgradable soldered-on SSD on the motherboard so you have to pay Apple's build-to-order prices if you want one. (The RAM is technically upgradable but requires a security Torx bit to access just to be annoying.)
  - dagw 8y ago
    A 1TB SSD is maybe $200 retail? For the cheap ones. The faster/better quality ones from Samsung and Intel, which are more comparable to what Apple is using, are $400-500
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      970 Evo 1TB (3500MB/sec): $228 970 Pro (effectively same speed, but 3bit MLC versus 2bit): $380
    - dethac 8y ago
      The 970 EVO performs noticeably better in almost all benchmark categories (latency, sequential read/write, 4K read/write) than Apple SSDs. The 970 EVO uses MLC. The 970 EVO is $230. Come again?
- Alex3917 8y ago
  > Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review — 6-core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD The problem is that the i7 has hyper-threading, which creates a giant security hole in your system. I'd be much more interested in the i5 benchmarks, since the i5 (supposedly) does not have hyper-threading.
  - macintux 8y ago
    The "giant security hole" I assume you're referring to isn't particularly worrisome for your own hardware running trusted software. It's more of a problem in a shared environment where you don't know who else is running code.
    - Alex3917 8y ago
      > The "giant security hole" I assume you're referring to isn't particularly worrisome for your own hardware running trusted software. My concern is mainly javascript or webasm running in the browser. Even if there aren't currently any unpatched exploits of this nature, that's no guarantee that there won't be in the future.
      - vonmoltke 8y ago
        First, that means it isn't a "giant security hole"; it's a potential security hole. Second, if an exploit is discovered just disable the extra hardware threads until it gets patched. As an aside, I don't know what your "supposedly" about the i5 is supposed to mean. The i5 has only one hardware thread per core.
        Alex3917 8y ago
        > As an aside, I don't know what your "supposedly" about the i5 is supposed to mean. The tech specs page on the Apple site doesn't give the exact part number, so there's always the chance it could be some previously unreleased chip.

bouvin 8y ago

Looks promising. I've ordered one to replace my ancient cheese grater Mac Pro, and it should be quite an update. I've always been fond of the old Mac Pros (still one of most beautiful machines from Apple), but the extensibility through TB3 has rendered many of the advantages moot (and my Mac Pro is stuffed to the gills).

TwoNineA 8y ago

Stop using Geekbench for reviews :(

tpxl 8y ago
Why?
jacobroyquebec 8y ago
What would you recommend instead?
- rado 8y ago
  FCPX BruceX

nl 8y ago

This sounds like it’d make a decent development machine - better in many ways than a MPB.

thresh 8y ago

The review doesnt tell you that you cannot upgrade or replace your SSD.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
Which also means the entire thing has to be thrown out when the SSD eventually dies. Sure it's going to take a while, but it will happen. Yay consumerism, I guess.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Technically not. You can boot from an external thunderbolt SSD, which is capable of the same speeds as an internal drive. It’s mildly ugly, but not a showstopper. But I thought that modern SSDs were supposed to last decades, even under heavy use. Is this actually a real problem?
  - throwawayber18 8y ago
    Does anyone know if TRIM is supported using an external SSD over thunderbolt? I remember reading it’s not supported over USB3.
- pier25 8y ago
  My wife is using her iMac with an external SSD via USB3 since the HDD is too slow. She even can boot her Macbook Air from the macOS installation on that same SSD and keep working.
- tzs 8y ago
  In late 2014 I replaced the disks in my 2008 Mac Pro at work and my 2009 Mac Pro at home with Samsung EVO 840 and 850 SSD disks. I kept track of accumulated writes. Both machines were heavily used for development and consumer type stuff. No big data stuff or big media stuff. Samsung rates these things at 150 TB write endurance for the 850 and something around 120 TB for the 840. My projection based on that usage is that it will take over 35 years to reach 100 TB. Samsung's ratings are quite conservative. Reviewers that have put these things through write torture tests to the point of error have typically gotten several times Samsung's rating. Around 170 years worth of writes at my usage rate. I haven't seen numbers for Apple's durability, but if it is within even distant sight of Samsung's EVO performance you can expect to have retired the computer for other reasons long before the SSD dies. I'd expect that the only reason the SSD might lead to getting a new computer is that you want a bigger SSD, but even that might not be an issue because Thunderbolt 3 gives pretty good performance for external disks. My Mac Pros have both been retired, replaced with a 2017 iMac (one iMac could replace both office and work computer because we switched to working at home). My Samsung EVOs are now on the iMac in an AKiTiO Thunder3 Quad Mini enclosure. The internal SSD in the iMac gets just short of 2000 MB/s for both read and write, according to Disk Speed Test from Blackmagic Design. The Samsung EVOs get around 465 MB/s write, 520 MB/s read, so 1/4 the internal disk but still fast enough for most purposes. Note that the Samsungs are SATA drives. Something that made more direct use of TB3 could probably go much faster.

LeoNatan25 8y ago

Apple’s new strategy seems to be, instead of having products that sell themselves for their clear benefits, just flood either YouTube casuals or Twitter “celebrities” (depending on target segment) with the highest end config machine and expect praise.

jpkeisala 8y ago
Can't say there was too much criticism on this review.
- LeoNatan25 8y ago
  Well, you know, we waited years for a new Mac mini replacement, and we got one that is very disappointing on the low end, very expensive on the high end, no clear future support, missing features from previous iterations, but hey, it’s amazing machine because Apple finally graced us with it and I got it for free, so let me overlook that 2500$ price tag.
  - winuser 8y ago
    I really wish that devs out there, including the HN community, give PCs and Windows another chance. The PC specs are amazing, value for your money is excellent, the OS is beautiful - the biggest obstacle now is so much open source documentation explains how to install or build on a linux based machine, ignoring the Windows users and making them feel like sh*t for working on a Windows box. If more dev's offered docs around building/compiling on Windows, and Windows support, that would be excellent...
    - redial 8y ago
      Cons: Windows update. I'll pass.
    - rangibaby 8y ago
      What advantages does Windows offer over Linux other than gaming?

kace91 8y ago

A $2500 desktop computer with integrated graphics? Honestly, it feels like a bit of a joke.

deltron3030 8y ago
You could add an eGPU over TB3.
- Keyframe 8y ago
  Lack of GPU wasn't OP's gripe.
  - stevewodil 8y ago
    How else would you interpret the comment? The only thing they mention is the lack of GPU, so I'm curious why you would say that. In any case the price is due to the SSD and RAM upgrades. You can get the i7 with 8gb RAM and 256gb SSD for $1300, which is still pricey but what do you expect from Apple...
    - jsight 8y ago
      You would interpret it as saying that it is overpriced. A high-end GPU at the same price might make sense, but paying that much for RAM and an SSD is nonsense.
    - wlesieutre 8y ago
      An eGPU is going to add $300 for an enclosure and $500 or whatever for the GPU itself, so even with that it gives you a pro desktop option priced cheaper than a Mac Pro. Base price on the Mac Pro has been $3000 even before the trashcan version. With the pattern in all of Apple's recent products, the next one might be more.
    - Keyframe 8y ago
      I've interpreted it as being overpriced, with provision that it might not be if there was a (higher end) GPU inside.

blinkingled 8y ago

The pricing is not really justifiable especially given the most use cases of the Mac mini (Home Theater, NAS, Backup etc.) are better handled by other OSes. The NUC8 with comparable specs (sans 6 core CPU) comes at under half the price! If you needed the 6 cores sure but given most workloads other than encoding don't - it's questionable. Even then the 6C processor doesn't cost enough to make up for the difference.

empath75 8y ago
It’s hilarious how often this exact comment gets made in every single new apple product thread everywhere.
- bnolsen 8y ago
  and its pointing out the truly obvious as well...
  - blinkingled 8y ago
    Well the reviewer seemed to go out of the way to claim the price was justified - I was pointing out that wasn't the case, not that price is high which it undeniably is.
    - Applejinx 8y ago
      Meh… the things I'm looking to do require some fancy outboard and don't ask all that much of the host computer. I've been looking at getting a fairly spiffy newer iMac or medium-old Mac Pro to hook the fancy outboard to (things like video production gear that'll take SDI inputs, external hardware x264 encoding, my MOTU 16A multichannel interface). It's looking very much like all that can be done just as well off the back of this tiny computer that's less than $1000. I was expecting the computer side to have to be more than $2000 to properly handle the fancy outboard. What with the Mini doing certain single-core processing tasks faster than ANY other Mac, and even having some RAM upgradeability (?!?) there is no question that it'd be able to work with the gear I mean. I don't need my host computer to be a quarter the cost of all the outboard gear that plugs into it. It'll be roughly the same cost as each of the pieces of outboard gear. That doesn't seem too expensive at all.

rado 8y ago

In a world of 5K displays and Apple's insistence on smoothness, this GPU just won't work.

rado 8y ago
I bought a 2016 13" MBP to use it on an external display. It only works well on 2.5K. Always consider the GPU nowadays.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  That's strange. I use an early 2015 13" model which happily drives two external 4k displays simultaneously. I'm not running them high-DPI though – the performance there is noticeably worse.
  - nik736 8y ago
    I have a 2017 13" and while it was working with a single 4k screen at 60 Hz, it simply isn't fun working on it since everything is laggy and stuttering.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I guess that high dpi then as well? I found that wasn’t really nice to use because of the stuttering, but native 4K was much better. You need good eyesight though :)
      - nik736 8y ago
        Scaled down to 1440p yep. Native 4K is no option :D
  - rado 8y ago
    On scaling other than 2x, it's unusable, while the MBP mobile Radeon Pro is good enough. They should have included that at least.

dev_north_east 8y ago

I bought a mac mini ten years ago (for about E400?). It still lives on today as my parent's desktop. I passed to them many years ago and not one problem. Fantastic machine. However I cannot justify the prices they're asking for these ones. I'm looking for a new machine for myself now, but no way will these be considered.

adamlett 8y ago
Let me get this straight: You would not consider paying a premium for a machine even though your experience tells you, that it has a useful life of 10+ years?
- dev_north_east 8y ago
  1 - it wouldn't be suitable for me now (nor for the past few years). 2 - I remember there being a big differential in equivalently priced machines back then. One of my current work Dell workstations is a much cheaper option than this Mac, much better specced and I've had no issues with it for over two years. 3 - It's £800 for the thing, seems way out of line with inflation compared to what I bought then.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    > seems way out of line with inflation compared to what I bought then Can't speak for European pricing, but the base model Mac Mini 10 years ago cost $599, and adjusted for inflation it would cost $750 today ($50 less than the current base model).
- ntsplnkv2 8y ago
  All of my experiences with Mac have been like this. Got a MBP for college, 2009. Still running as my mom's laptop in 2018. Meanwhile my dad's 2 year old dell has endless problems, it's incredibly cheap, despite having better internal hardware. It's slower, needed tons of configuration out of the box, and Windows 10 is just awful. My dad's laptop constantly has issues. My mom? Never once. It just works. I will gladly pay for a product that is like that. I don't care what an SSD costs on Amazon. I don't want to spend time looking up components and motherboards and bargain hunting. I don't care about gaming and therefore the GPU. People on here look at numbers and costs but they never consider the customer experience. It's far more damning of Apple to have the bad keyboard on the new MBPs than have some overpriced hardware. Ask 99% of people on the street if they even know what an i7 is.

jpkeisala 8y ago

Slightly off topic but is there cloud Mac/Xcode that I subscribe to for my occasional App development?

rado 8y ago
Maybe https://www.macstadium.com https://www.macstadium.com
sanketskasar 8y ago
Checkout Macstadium. https://www.macstadium.com https://www.macstadium.com
aequitas 8y ago
There probably is but it will be built on top of Mac mini or Mac Pro farms as Apple does not allow virtualization of macOS on any hardware not carrying a Apple logo (I believe that is how it is actually stated in the terms even). So of it is available it might not be a cheaper option. But I believe Travis CI does have macOS workers available for free, but they might be scarce in available time slots.
- GordonS 8y ago
  I've been using MacInCloud at work for the past 2 years or so, renting a single server for use as a VSTS/Azure DevOps build agent server, for iOS builde. I'm very happy with it - the server we have is fast enough, both CPU and disk, and it's been rock solid. I've only contacted their support team about billing stuff, but they were responsive and helpful. Disclaimer: no affiliation, just a happy user.
robertAngst 8y ago
Tag for interest, I have no interest in using Apple for anything, but I need to compile my RN app.
jaxondu 8y ago
hostmyapple macincloud

ctz 8y ago

> $2499 (much of which is the SSD) Where 'much' is approximately 5-10%.

faitswulff 8y ago
I think it refers to the fact that if you configure it on Apple.com, a 2TB SSD adds +$1,600 to the price tag.
fredoliveira 8y ago
Configuring a mac mini on Apple.com now: +$600 for the 1TB, so, 40%. I'd say it qualifies as "much" :)
ukdeveloper 8y ago
In terms of the retail price. More like 30-35%. The 1TB SSD is a $800 option on the 128GB base model, and a $600 option on the 256GB model. The 2TB SSD is an even more eye-watering $1600 option from the base model.

dTal 8y ago

>Number one — and this is a big one these days, especially for this product — is that it’s not any less useful or versatile than the outgoing Mac Mini, including the generous assortment of ports. If the previous one served a role for you, the new one can probably do it just as well, and probably better and faster, with minimal donglage. Wow. This is what it's come to. "It hasn't gotten worse! Yayy!"

lucideer 8y ago
> "Unless you used optical audio, audio input, or the SD-card reader" Craftily hidden in a footnote for that paragraph.
- someguydave 8y ago
  I use optical audio in a mac mini as a home theater TV driver. No thanks.
  - someguydave 8y ago
    Now that I think about it, axing the optical audio ports was probably a deliberate move by Apple to nudge home TV users of mac minis into using Apple TVs, where they have way more control over the interface and content. edit: apparently Apple TV doesn't have optical audio either.
    - nsnick 8y ago
      The AppleTV doesn't have optical audio either.
      - someguydave 8y ago
        Ok well I guess that's even dumber than I thought. I hope apple takes that $2 per device savings in optical audio parts laughing to the bank.
    - bluegreyred 8y ago

tonetheman 8y ago

TLDR - Overpriced. Buy something else.

me551ah 8y ago

A 2500$ windows desktop will give you. 1. A much better discrete GPU which can run titles in 4k. 2. Ability to run games cause windows has DirectX. 3. Ability to run Linux natively using WSL. 4. Expandability - You can add components like more RAM or an additional GPU.

OJFord 8y ago
> 3. Ability to run Linux natively using WSL. But what are you doing in WSL that you can't do on a Mac (or, of course, a Linux machine) without a 'subsystem'? Sincere question, because the 'Mac is not Linux' things that wind me up tend to require X11 to fix, WSL would be no different.
- me551ah 8y ago
  Mac ships with their own posix subsystem, WSL allows you to install a bunch of popular flavours of linux on top of Windows. I personally run Arch Linux and have access to a lot more bleeding edge packages.
  - rswail 8y ago
    To clarify, Mac ships with a native Unix [1], derived from BSD, not a posix subsystem. It has its own init (launchd) and its own GUI, but most of it is a Unix. Using Macports or homebrew gets you most of the packages that are available for the various Linuxes, GNU utilities etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29
  - OJFord 8y ago
    > WSL allows you to install a bunch of popular flavours of linux on top of Windows. I personally run Arch Linux Oh, I didn't know that, that does make it a bit more interesting to me! I still think I'd be frustrated (as I am on Mac) with the lack of a configurable (or even of a choice of) window manager though.
wild_preference 8y ago

bo0tzz 8y ago

"...cost $2499 (much of which is the SSD)" The cheapest SSD I can find goes for €129.47, and it doesn't seem to get up to much more for consumer SSDs. Unless this SSD has some crazy specs that I'm missing, it seems seriously overpriced to me.

kgermino 8y ago
Little of both. The SSD is a very fast 1TB model running on Apple’s custom controller (so you can’t just compare to a random one on Amazon). It’s also an obscenely high priced upgrade. Probably more column B (expensive) than A (good)
- thomassnielsen 8y ago
  It's the fastest SSD on the consumer market by a good margin. My main gripe with it is that Apple doesn't provide any affordable option for large, slow storage. Of course you can always go external, but then it won't be so much mini anymore.
  - dethac 8y ago
    Except... it's not. We know that larger SSDs are faster... but if we compare a 1TB Apple SSD in the iMac Pro to a 500GB 970 EVO (around $120)... the 970 EVO is at least equal, if not faster in performance.
xuki 8y ago
There is a hefty premium on top of any upgrades from the base model, but Apple SSD with the T2 chip is insanely fast - check out the benchmark for the iMac Pro and MacBook Pro 2018.
veidr 8y ago
Apple charges +$600 (USD) for a 0.25 → 1TB SSD upgrade. I heard some complaints, but was all like "Yeah, but modern Apple SSDs are 3GB/sec, that is pretty good, bros..." My coworker clued me in, though: 1TB samsung 970Pro M.2 (3GB/s) was as low as AUD$304 here just yesterday. Thats ~USD$215. I don't usually mind paying the _AppleTax_ but that is ridiculously overpriced. I buy all sorts of overpriced Apple shit, but that is so overpriced it's kinda offensive.

logifail 8y ago

I bought my first-ever Mac just over three weeks ago, a refurbished Mac Mini (2010 version, with Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, upgraded by seller to 8GB and 240GB SSD and High Sierra). Pretty happy so far.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

Ugh, all the comments about how it's overpriced in this thread. "This is crazy! You can just build your own for half the price!" Snooze. You could have made this comment about most of Apple's products for decades. Some people apparently just don't get it, so here it is from my perspective: As long as Apple does what I need, I'm not going to buy anything else. I'm definitely not going to build my own PC to save a few bucks. I recognize that not everyone is in this position, but my time is valuable and the difference between "click buy" and "research and buy a ton of parts and assemble them and install software and drivers and blah blah blah" is worth thousands of dollars to me. I rely on a Macbook Pro for work every day. I generally keep them for 2-3 years, and given my preferences, work setup, software, and how much money I make with these things, I'd pay triple (or more) what Apple currently charges for them vs. getting some shitty Dell or Lenovo and hassling with Windows or Linux. That's not to say everyone should feel that way, but that's my situation, and I'm not alone.

tomduncalf 8y ago
100% this, but for people who don't make money from using the computer I can see how the high prices are a real problem
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  But Apple's strategy has never been to go after the price-sensitive market. Complaining that their prices are way higher than commodity parts you can piece together yourself makes zero sense. That's like complaining that a Ferrari is way more expensive than a Honda.
  - tomduncalf 8y ago
    Yep, good point. I read someone online commenting that Apple's "price sensitive" option are second-hand devices as they (historically) remain updated and working well for a long time. Hopefully the new 3rd generation keyboard will stand up to years of use - I'm not at all confident that my 2017 will have much resale value due to the keyboard issues.

Down_n_Out 8y ago

I've been an avid Apple user and supporter for many years, preached about the stability and the superior (tongue in cheek) hardware. I was waiting for a decent replacement for an ageing mini, but seriously Apple, at these prices?? It's insane. I've made up my mind after I saw the Apple event and reading/following the news of them hiding their sales numbers from now on [0]. I've switched over to Linux as my main desktop completely. While I've been using Windows for years, Windows 10 is just not doing it for me, even with WSL, it just feels limited and unpolished. Anyway, rant over. [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-the-going-gets-tough-apple-hides-its-numbers-2018-11-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-the-going-gets-tough-...

jillesvangurp 8y ago

People are missing the point about the integrated graphics. For me this is a feature not a bug because it has USB-C instead. That means that instead of hopelessly compromising thermals and power supply with some power hungry, yet limited GPU (because of the small form factor) you simply buy the CPU and memory that you need. It simplifies the job of keeping it cool. CPUs are evolving a lot slower these days. This one should last you many years before it becomes a problem. Having upgradeable memory all the way to 64GB means that too is not going to be a problem any time soon. It means that a mac mini should have a serviceable life of 3-5 years or more if you are less of a power user. Additionally, you plugin an eGPU of your choice and additional storage via USB-C. Better, when improved eGPUs become available, you can sell your old one and buy a new one without having to tear the machine apart. They also don't overtax and compromise your power supply or cooling. I currently have an imac 5K that is nearly 5 years old now. I maxed it out at the time with all the bells and whistles and it has served me well. So, money well spent despite the shocking price initially. I'd totally consider spending 3-4K on a setup with a mac mini, decent eGPU + monitor, and external ssd storage (I actually have a Samsung 2TB T5 already). The new imac pro would cost more and deliver less value. What I like about this setup is that it is completely modular and I can replace individual components without having to worry breaking the other components. I imagine the mac pro next year will also emphasize expansion and upgrades through USB-C rather than internals. Basically the old model without dedicated GPU and upgradable Xeon CPUs + Memory would be exactly the right product right now. Egpus can be replaced easily and with a solid base configuration, a pro machine should have a long productive life.

VHRanger 8y ago
You have small form factor PCs with GPUs. But the exterior won't be as pretty because you have much more thermal to deal with
- whywhywhywhy 8y ago
  > But the exterior won't be as pretty There are actually plenty of nice looking small form factor PC cases that can house a full GPU - http://www.louqe.com/ http://www.louqe.com/ - https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php I'd actually say this is one area of the custom PC market that's well served by nice design.

torgian 8y ago

I’m pretty sure I would rather buy an iMac than a Mac mini. An iMac at least comes with a display, and the base 4K version is competitive in price and features as far as I can tell.

kylec 8y ago
I bought an iMac last year and regretted it. The performance was fine, but I ended up disliking the fact that it was an all-in-one. The fact that you can get iMac performance without a display attached is a big feature of the new Mac mini for me.
- torgian 8y ago
  Yeah. I guess if portability is a plus, that would be better than an iMac. I move once a year so that wouldn’t really be a problem for me, but if you need a Mac for portability, why not just get a MacBook? I think the Mac mini is at an awkward price point. You need a monitor, keyboard and mouse which cost you extra. At that point you can get a base MacBook Pro. I think it would only really make sense for businesses

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago

I'm just waiting for the same article but for Macbooks. I can't wait to throw my money at Apple when they bring back MagSafe and scissor switches. Not holding my breath though.

matthewmacleod 8y ago

I'm in the market for a new machine, but unfortunately that GPU is too anaemic to make sense. It's a shame, because otherwise it looks like a pretty great proposition. An eGPU is an option, but at £500+ and twice the size of the machine, not a vary attractive one. I guess the options are throwing down the cash for a 15" MacBook Pro, or waiting to see what they come up with for the Mac Pro next year…

nik736 8y ago
I have the same issue, I don't understand why they are able to fit a Vega in the 15" MBP but not in the larger Mac Mini. 15" MBP is not an option for me because of the touchbar and keyboard, so I am basically out of options.
- hjnilsson 8y ago
  Yea, it could at least have been an option. But my guess is they didn't want too many SKUs, and wanted to hit a price-point of less than $1000.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    Also they need to preserve a market for the "modular" Mac Pro next year
- Joeri 8y ago
  The mini has a 65w tdp cpu, vs the mbp’s 45w cpu. That means more heat to dump from a smaller surface area. I’m not surprised they couldn’t fit a warmer gpu in the thermal profile.
Eric_WVGG 8y ago
There are some “puck-sized” eGPUs, somewhere between the size of an AppleTV and a Mac Mini, have chips comparable to the high end MacBooks Pro options.

ksec 8y ago

It doesn't seems Apple is interested in using AMD CPU / APU in their products, otherwise they would have a decent iGPU along side. I was expecting the Intel + AMD GPU combo to end up in this Mac mini, turns out not.

benologist 8y ago

Is anyone worried that Apple's transition to their own CPUs will render these x86 machines obsolete very fast? How long did it take for the pre-x86 Macs to fall behind when the software started focusing on x86 instead?

H1Supreme 8y ago
I remember when they went to x86, but I think the landscape is different now. I was working in graphic design at the time, and I didn't know a single person outside of that field who used a mac. Now, I'm surprised when someone's laptop isn't a Mac. So, I imagine there's a lot more critical software that needs ported. One area I can speak to now, which I'm heavily invested in, is audio applications. It's the main reason I still run a Mac. Upgrades are usually slow and cautious in this domain. I'm still on 10.12.6, and have no plan on upgrading anytime soon. I, for one, am quite concerned. It used to be in regards to performance, but now it's all the applications and plugins that will need ported. There's a very real chance I'll go to Windows if it looks like a nightmare. Would love to see a Ubuntu variant come out of the ashes of such a thing, but that's probably a pipe dream.
rangibaby 8y ago
Apple waited for 5 years to release a version of OSX that couldn’t run PPC apps on x86 Macs. Last PPC Mac: 2005 First x86 Macs: 2006, PPC apps work on x86 Macs Adobe CS3 (first native x86 version): 2007 OSX 10.5, last OSX version released for PPC Macs: 2007 -- OSX 10.6 (x86 only, PPC apps still work): 2009 Adobe CS5 (x86 only): 2010 OSX 10.7, PPC apps no longer work: 2011
Bad_CRC 8y ago
Yep, it's time for my to change the laptop at work, I currently have an old i5 Macbook Pro and it held for +5 years. Even my personal macbook air is from late 2010 (reddit + spotify machine) I doubt that any mac today would held for another 6 or 7 years.

LeicaLatte 8y ago

The pricing is a joke. Refurbised Mac Pro with dual GPUs and SSDs are much better value.

karpodiem 8y ago

Can't replace the SSD? Pass.

drej 8y ago

Macs aside - this video clearly shows the wonderful experience you can get when an audio/video producer cares about audio quality. Spoken word recorded with clear audio is so lovely. I listen to podcasts and audiobooks on a daily basis and I really really appreciate someone putting the effort into this. Thanks!

bitdestroyer 8y ago
There's a running joke on ATP that Marco buys just tons of mics. Not to mention he made Overcast, so he knows audio pretty well.
- paulcole 8y ago
  I think he just buys tons of everything.
  - ihuman 8y ago
    And then he sells them
cptskippy 8y ago
I had a hard time watching him talk because the over dubbed audio is completely out of sync. It's really bad right around the 1 minute mark. I ended up minimizing the window and just listening. I honestly don't care for this audio, it's crystal clear and perfect for a podcast but the video is of him sitting in front of a window with a dog and the absence of any environmental noise is odd.
- gnomesteel 8y ago
  Agreed. It's drifting around and rarely in sync.
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 8y ago
    Watching on iOS I had no sync problems. Maybe it’s a transcoding problem caused by YouTube? At 1:25 you can clearly hear how when he turns away from the camera the audio changes as well. I’d say the audio is recorded live, not dubbed.

thirdsun 8y ago

Side discussion: What are everyone's thoughts when it comes to external HiDPI monitor options to use with this Mac Mini? Ideally I'd want 5K displays (I'm used to the iMac 5K) but it seems that LG's UltraFine is the only real option and the rest of the industry has settled on 4K/UHD at 27 inches, which results in a) limited screen real estate due to an effective resolution of 1080p at 2x scaling and b) slightly less pixel density. I maybe fine with b) but both issues considered I'm seriously wondering why UHD displays at 27" are so popular - it seems like a subpar and regretful combination. Are my worries unwarranted?

antsar 8y ago
Nobody's forcing you to use 2x scaling. I use two 27" UHD displays with Debian/GNOME. The system-level scaling factor is 1, and I adjust application zoom levels as needed. I typically divide each display in half, and each half comfortably fits one browser window, mail client, terminal, Spotify, etc.
- thirdsun 8y ago
  1x scaling will be too small for UHD at 27". MacOS only works probably with integer-based scaling - 1x, 2x, theoretically 3x. Everything inbetween will lead to blurry text/assets and decreased performance since the output as a whole will be scaled and downsampled by the GPU. I'm working a lot with text and a sharp/crisp display is important to me. 2x scaling is the only proper option in my opinion.
  - orangecat 8y ago
    Everything inbetween will lead to blurry text/assets and decreased performance since the output as a whole will be scaled and downsampled by the GPU. I run 2 27" 4k displays off a MacBook with integrated graphics, both scaled at 1.5x to "look like" 2560x1440. It works fine; text is not quite as sharp at it would be at 2x, but it's far better than it would be on an actual 1440p display. I haven't noticed decreased performance, but I'm not doing heavy graphics work. Agreed that display manufacturers are messing this up. 4k displays should be either 20-24" for 2x scaling or 40+ inches for unscaled; 27" displays should be 5k.

maxxxxx 8y ago

I really don't like when reviewers test the high end configuration only. This makes the review pretty useless for most of us who may be considering a lower spec.

bluedino 8y ago
Car manufacturers rarely send their low end models out to reviews as well.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- hi5eyes 8y ago
  and Ferrari sends tuned versions of the car
  - LeonM 8y ago
    Basically all performance car manufacturers send out cars to journalists with a higher power setting, top tier tires, optimized suspension settings, etc. But journalists know that.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Some car companies not only send out tuned versions of the cars, but a team to tune the car during the review. You see this on The Grand Tour all the time.
leejoramo 8y ago
Well it was an early Apple provided review unit. But more than that, Marco Arment actually uses high end rigs in his daily work and describes pushing them to the limit. It is highly appropriate for Marco to review a Mac Mini with high end specs, and I find it informative
minikites 8y ago
He did test one thing to match a lower end configuration: >Interestingly, I disabled Turbo Boost to simulate the base i3 model’s thermals, and couldn’t get the fan to spin up audibly, no matter what I did. Those who prioritize silence under heavy loads should probably stick with the i3.

bluedino 8y ago

I would have liked to see performance compared to the 2018 15” MacBook Pro, since they are around the same cost. The 13-inch really got its butt kicked.

robertsd247 8y ago

There is zero justification for the pricing. It needs to be starting around $399. Apple is still working the privileged pricing model. Considering it has year old processor and 8GB RAM. For $800 an i5 and 16GB should be standard. I can forgive that 128GB SSD but not the CPU or RAM. Side note, why is a computer only for games, streaming, and mining bitcoin? It that what the end user experience is limited to?

copperx 8y ago
I agree that Apple has gone completely crazy with the markup, but who is saying those are the only applications for computers???
douglaswlance 8y ago
Apple uses value-based pricing, not cost-based pricing.
- robertsd247 8y ago
  Fair enough, but it "values" the Mac Mini at $799 with a year-old i3 and 8GB of RAM? It valued the last one at $499 and it was 5 years old. I guess what the market will bear is really true...for Apple.
  - fetus8 8y ago
    Keep in mind that the old Mini, priced at $499, only had a Laptop Dual Core i5 CPU. The new ones all have Desktop grade Quadcore CPUs in them. This isn't a totally justifiable reason for the price increase, but it is seemingly a large performance increase.
  - douglaswlance 8y ago
    It's not about how much Apple values their products. Value-based pricing is based on how much value the customer gets out of the product.
    - 8y ago

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

> ... not a low end product anymore... Apple is clearly pushing everything towards a more luxury high end. More than ever, they're pushing the market to see how far they can go. They're pricing me out. I can afford their stuff, I just find it hard to justify it.

wufufufu 8y ago

I'm impressed, but I am also not sure how accurate the benchmarks he's using are for replicating real-world load. I actually think it's pretty cost effective if you go for 32GB RAM instead of 64GB, and keep the baseline 256GB SSD storage. It comes out to $1,899. With 64GB RAM and 2TB storage, it comes out to $4,099, which is a huge markup for things that can be self-upgraded on a PC. Even $2,699 for the 64GB version doesn't seem that bad for effectively the best MacOS running computer you can get currently.

neolefty 8y ago
How hard is it to upgrade yourself?
- tkxxx7 8y ago
  According to the article, you just need a T6.

singularity2001 8y ago

Best display to buy with the new mini is probably: Eizo Flexscan ev2785 4k 27"

joshstrange 8y ago

The review was good but I'm honestly surprised that Marco, of all people, would have such a badly dubbed video. Get Casey Liss to help you, his audio in videos isn't as good as your audio but it matches his voice at least. #AccidentalBadVideoDubbing

Cenk 8y ago

Off topic, but Marco has lost a bunch of weight! Not sure I love the beard though.

kbumsik 8y ago

How is it compared to Intel's Hades Canyon? I'm thinking between those two mini-sized computers.

benologist 8y ago
I have the Hades' predecessor, one advantage of this line is a pair of M.2 slots in RAID that will later hold 4tb, 8tb, etc NVMe sticks allowing massively more capacity at similar speed to the Mini's storage. The AMD graphics in the Hades' is vastly better, but still significantly inferior to anything you will connect via eGPU. A lot of casual usage will not require the Hades' GPU but you'll always pay a power/thermal price for it. As resolutions increase, or depending on your requirements now, you'll probably be forced to pair it with an eGPU because it really only excels at 1080p for 3d stuff afaik. One nice thing from the Hades' predecessor is fanless cases, I don't know if they've emerged yet for the Hades Canyon but going fanless is really amazing. Prior to that it could be loud, and the Hades added a second loud fan for the GPU.

testaccit450 8y ago

The new mac mini seems like a straightforward improvement from the other versions with few things getting worse. I love that.

mywacaday 8y ago

Can anyone explain the market for this to me? In Ireland Mac Mini: 8th Gen i5 Processor/8GB RAM/256GB SSD €1269 Dell XPS 13 with: 8th Gen i5 Processor/8GB RAM/256GB SSD €1189

thirdsun 8y ago
Unless the XPS can run macOS the comparison will be useless to the target audience of the Mac Mini. Furthermore both are very different product categories.

invinciblehog 8y ago

I wonder how long the Mac mini will stick around

shurcooL 8y ago

> Unfortunately, we still don’t have any great standalone 5K displays. (The LG UltraFine isn’t.) What’s wrong with the LG display? It gets a lot of criticism, but I find it hard to understand why. There was an interference shielding issue, but it was fixed more than a year ago. For anyone familiar with the matter, what is it that makes the LG not great?

nicksergeant 8y ago
I have two of them and they are both excellent. I can see no discernible difference between them and my 5k iMac. They are expensive, though.
scaasic 8y ago
My personal issue with it is the lack of standard inputs, which make it impossible to use with an eGPU setup (excluding the Blackmagic, but that's a whole other kind of subpar). The data ports being exclusively USB-C is probably an issue for some as well.
- kylec 8y ago
  If your complaint about the Blackmagic eGPU being “subpar” was the power of the Radeon Pro 580, you’ll be happy to hear that one with a Vega 56 is now available: https://store.apple.com/xc/product/HMQT2VC/A https://store.apple.com/xc/product/HMQT2VC/A
  - scaasic 8y ago
    It was partially the 580, partially the inability to swap out the card. It's nice that they're offering Vega options now, but for that model I'd be paying a $500 premium over a comparable setup, with TB3 out being the only benefit. I'll stick with my Dell P2415Q + Akitio Node for now.
MarkMc 8y ago
I found that the LG UltraFine is by far the best monitor for my MacBook Pro. Nothing else comes close.

mohsen1 8y ago

I'm looking forward to see server blades made out of those Macs. It's just satisfying to see how they are built

yuhong 8y ago

As a side note, it is a good thing that Apple is supporting 16Gbit DDR4 on time and schedule. (this was not always true in the past)

ataturk 8y ago

I have the 2014 Mini with 4GB. It is depressingly slow and the horrible part is that it replaced a slightly older Mini that died but that had 16GB of RAM in it which was my little workhorse. When I bought the 2014 one, I didn't know the RAM was soldered on. I have suffered for three years like this (I have other computers, but this Mini is the main "family" computer for storing photos and documents and gets backed up daily). It's relatively important even though we all have other computers at our house. What is most sad is that a colleague gave me a 2010 i5 Mini with 8GB of RAM and that one is actually faster than the 2014 Mini with 4GB of RAM--OSX needs to manage memory better! WTF Apple? Why sell computers with RAM spec that doesn't work and then make them non-upgradeable? It's inexcusable. My question is, should I get one of these Minis and is the RAM upgradeable? Or should I buy a refurb Mac Pro and get off the Mini ecosystem entirely? Again, I need a little desktop workhorse that isn't an all-in-one kind of dealie. Laptops are great, but I want a desktop type machine with ports for what I do with it. I had a 2015 MB Pro in 2015/2016, loved that one. My current work machine is the 2017 Pro laptop, it's not quite as good. Dongles suck! I was able to re-utilize that RAM from the defunct Mini by getting a refurb 2014 MB Pro for my daughter and adding it to that one instead. That one has also been a great little workhorse at our house.

noja 8y ago

Too expensive. If you just want a redundant NAS everything else is cheaper. If you want a non-redundant NAS asingle disk NAS enclosure costs 54 bucks: https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G151505170472 https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_cod...

user68858788 8y ago
I'm fairly new to this NAS stuff. Is there a reason to have one hard drive per sever, or is that just a limitation of this one in particular? I'm sure that RAID over a network of hard drives is a solved problem, but I wouldn't know where to start.
- noja 8y ago
  It's a limitation of that odroid enclosure. You could do raid over iscsi (but I wouldn't). Buffalo do a 2 drive enclosure very cheap, but I'd go for a synology or qnap enclosure for a bit more money.

xedarius 8y ago

I can upgrade the ram, the most useful piece of information in the review. If I could upgrade the SSD too, I'd be tempted.

hartator 8y ago

I wonder how it'll perform as a "super" Apple Tv.

ender89 8y ago

This is a really weird device. The mac mini has long been used as a home theater pc of the apple ecosystem, due to it's formfactor and being the one apple device that didn't come with its own 20 inch screen or 3 foot tall tower. Apple tv, for all it's shortcomings, has sort of supplanted that and you're much better off sticking that under your tv and running your plex server somewhere else. So now we have a mac mini which is too expensive to be a home theater pc or to be stuck in a closet serving media, and is comparably priced with macs that have actual screens. So its like good for someone who for some reason doesn't want to carry a macbook around but wants a semi-portable workstation? or someone who wants an iMac with a bigger screen? It's not useful as a mac mini, and it's pretty redundant thanks to every use case being covered by an existing mac. Who is this device for? Who is buying this over a macbook or imac?

lostgame 8y ago
Weirdly, it has a lot of enterprise-scale applications and implications with it's ability to accept 64GB of RAM. We're replacing a ton of those 'garbage-can' Mac Pro models with them. Lord knows we don't need kick ass graphics cards. In terms of consumer-level applications, it definitely seems like the sell used to be the pleasant $500 price point. The G4 Mac Mini, at $499, was my very first entry into the Mac world. I certainly couldn't afford $1,100 for an iBook G4 in High School.
Humphrey 8y ago
Many people. This is targeted at professionals who need a max with good performance. Eg. Software developers. I can imagine this being a popular device.
gurkendoktor 8y ago
I've bought two Minis as dev machines in the past. Portability was part of it. I also saved a bunch of money because I already had a full set of peripherals. Edit: Upgradable RAM and the ability to install a second drive was also great in retrospect, I wonder if the latter is still possible with the 2018 model. And I'm not sure whether glossy Retina screens are really the best bang for the buck for developers. I often wish I had dual 1440p or a ginormous 21:9 screen when I'm dealing with complex projects.

catchmeifyoucan 8y ago

This article makes me happy. To see that Apple is listening. I'm super excited for the next Macbook Pro,and I really hope we really get something that is better, more reliable and practical. I'll be thrilled if they can find their groove again for the Macbook Pro

jackfrodo 8y ago

>Apple lent me a high-end configuration for review Is this common, for a company to lend a product for review, instead of just giving it to the reviewer?

msie 8y ago

I am eagerly awaiting iFixit's teardown of the new mac mini.

locusm 8y ago

Having a user serviceable M.2 slot would have made this the perfect Mac for me. Lets say I have Applecare for the first 3 years and the SSD dies on the 4th year, what are my options? Replace entire logic board with new CPU & SSD?