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Molecule produced during fasting has anti-aging effect on vascular system
- abcd_f 8y agoRelink to [1] perhaps, which is the original source without any anti-adblocking nonsense? [1] https://news.gsu.edu/2018/09/10/researchers-identify-molecule-with-anti-aging-effects-on-vascular-system-study-finds/ https://news.gsu.edu/2018/09/10/researchers-identify-molecul...
- krtkush 8y agoI have observed a surge in articles related to fasting (all of them are positive about it). Has there been new breakthrough in the field?
- Apocryphon 8y agoIt might just be the post-Soylent diet fad in tech: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/04/silicon-valley-ceo-fasting-trend-diet-is-it-safe https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/04/silicon...
- Jedi72 8y agoIf its anything like technology, dieting probably suffers from baseless trends which become self-sustaining at a certain point.
- serpix 8y agoWell fasting has been a trend since I don't even know, well before ancient greece at least. Western culture != entire world.
- riffraff 8y agofasting has been common in the western world since forever too. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it's a nutritional fad these days, much like paleo was the hip-est thing a few years back, and the mediterranean diet was en vogue before that etc.
- chiefalchemist 8y agoJust the same, the current diet / dieting of most Western peoples is not sustainable. There's always noise and opportunists. That doesn't the rest of us should try. Ultimately, for me, these articles boil down to me being willing to change my relationship with food. The more I eat for health, and less for pleasure, the better off I'll be.
- black6 8y agoIt must be an up-and-coming Internet trend/meme (a la what color is the dress?) in the health community. One of my coworkers just transitioned from a ketogenic diet to intermittent fasting.
- ilitirit 8y agoI'm not so sure. IF was in "fad" mode several years ago. The IF sub-reddit is already 6 years old. Now it just appears to be something that people are rediscovering because of posts (mainly on social media) about this type of research. There's nothing "new" in IF in terms of the approach to diet. Here's an HN submission from 2012: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4341091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4341091
- fabricexpert 8y agoIt won't last - how do you make money off a fasting diet? There's nothing to sell, unlike WeightWatchers, Shakes, Juice diets etc. Unless someone sells fasting chewing gum or something.
- adrianN 8y agoYou sell calorie free "cleansing" drinks.
- fabricexpert 8y agoAh yes of course. There is some interesting research into the benefits of Dihydrogen Monoxide with Hydroxyl Acid extracts, zero calories and can help extend a fast for days. Patent pending.
- dotancohen 8y agoBe careful, though. Prolonged expose of Dihydrogen Monoxide to the lungs has been shown to cause death. It also rusts metals and dissolves many other materials. I think may schools have been shown to have Dihydrogen Monoxide contamination in their cafeterias and restrooms.
- dmichulke 8y agoPlus it was found to be the main component of cancer cells, so I'd be really cautious here.
- mkagenius 8y agoFor ketosis, you are allowed to eat carbohydrate less food. So, cheese is fine.
- Amygaz 8y agoBut then your LDL will rise up, thereby negating any cardiac benefits...
- dotancohen 8y agoHas the surge been all year, or only the past few days? The large Jewish fast, Yom Kipporim, starts tomorrow evening and people love to find scientific explanations for their strange habits. If my comment sounds condescending, then be there no mistake: I'm Jewish and I'll be fasting.
- chaosbutters 8y agoit has been growing for the past decade. me and several people I know regularly fast for health benefits and not religion.
- Angostura 8y agoThis was when it hit the mainstream for me https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc a BBC programme in 2012
- mirekrusin 8y agoNo, it’s just fasting bank holiday in Switzerland.
- Apocryphon 8y agoCan anyone read the study and actually tell how long or what kind of fasting did it take to gain those results? The article just quotes a scientist about fasting for 24 hours.
- hartator 8y agoI was browsing through exactly for this.
- sgrytoyr 8y agoSince the benefits seem to be linked to ketosis, I believe we’re talking about fasts longer than 1-3 days, since that’s typically how long it takes to reach ketosis. So anywhere from 1-14 days, I would think.
- fabricexpert 8y agoYou can reach ketosis without fasting, it's worrying that both this article and it's source are not really clear on the methodology. This the actual source: "Here we report that β-HB promotes vascular cell quiescence, which significantly inhibits both stress-induced premature senescence and replicative senescence through p53-independent mechanisms. Further, we identify heterogeneous nuclear ribonucleoprotein A1 (hnRNP A1) as a direct binding target of β-HB. β-HB binding to hnRNP A1 markedly enhances hnRNP A1 binding with Octamer-binding transcriptional factor (Oct) 4 mRNA, which stabilizes Oct4 mRNA and Oct4 expression. Oct4 increases Lamin B1, a key factor against DNA damage-induced senescence. Finally, fasting and intraperitoneal injection of β-HB upregulate Oct4 and Lamin B1 in both vascular smooth muscle and endothelial cells in mice in vivo. We conclude that β-HB exerts anti-aging effects in vascular cells by upregulating an hnRNP A1-induced Oct4-mediated Lamin B1 pathway." https://www.cell.com/molecular-cell/fulltext/S1097-2765(18)30605-1 https://www.cell.com/molecular-cell/fulltext/S1097-2765(18)3...
- Amygaz 8y agoI read it too, and there is absolutely nothing new. Pick any protein network database, and all these actors are already linked. Basically, you could have written the same conclusion without sacrificing any mice.
- lawlessone 8y agoAll these different supposed anti-aging molecules that our body already produces.. e.g. nad+ also I would love if these could be used to slow or even halt aging but i would worry there is reason the body doesn't produce more of these. It's been said before but would we be leaving ourselves open to more cancer?
- phkahler 8y ago>> i would worry there is reason the body doesn't produce more of these. It's starting to look like the reason is the modern diet. And by modern I mean what we shifted to with the advent of farming several thousand years ago. 3 meals a day with high carbohydrate content. This puts you into the mode of converting carbs to fat for storage and never gives the opportunity to go into a mode of retrieving fat for energy. One specific reaction to eating carbs is an insulin response, which can last several hours. It's looking like people weren't design (evolved) to live that way. Type II diabetes (insulin resistance) is looking entirely preventable and perhaps reversible if one goes keto. You're just not going to produce the chemicals needed for one mode of operation when you're telling the body to do something else. These diets are proving that you can get it to produce another set of chemical in clinically meaningful quantities.
- magduf 8y agohttps://theoutline.com/post/6133/the-keto-diet-is-a-recipe-for-disaster https://theoutline.com/post/6133/the-keto-diet-is-a-recipe-f...
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y agoLooking up details of the study design, the molecule in question, β-Hydroxybutyrate, was tested in vitro on human tissue, and in vivo only on mice, so, as usual, wait patiently to see if there is any confirmation in, say, a large-scale study of a human population. The researchers tested the efficacy of β-hydroxybutyrate against cellular senescence in vitro on human umbilical vein endothelial cells and human aortic smooth muscle cells, and they observed the beneficial effects of this molecule in vivo: by injecting β-hydroxybutyrate into fasting mice, the scientists were able to alleviate the senescence of the animals’ aortae. https://www.leafscience.org/molecule-appears-to-have-anti-aging-effects-on-the-vascular-system/ https://www.leafscience.org/molecule-appears-to-have-anti-ag...
- fabricexpert 8y agoCan we update the title to reflect the research by adding "in mice" at the end of it? The effect of calorie restriction on aging in rodents has been known since the 1930s. Which does not diminish the value of identifying the precise molecule that triggers this, but it does mean that this shouldn't necessarily be used as justification for a fasting diet. "It has been known since the 1930s that reducing the number of calories fed to laboratory rodents increases their life spans. The life extension varies for each species, but on average there was a 30–40% increase in life span in both mice and rats.[30] In late adulthood, acute CR partially or completely reverses age-related alterations of liver, brain and heart proteins, and mice placed on CR at 19 months of age show an increases in life span.[78] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction
- ransom1538 8y agoHere is one monkey on an unrestricted diet and one monkey on a restricted diet years later: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/08/calorie_restriction_and_longevity_monkey_study_shows_hunger_doesn_t_increase_longevity_but_type_of_food_does_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
- lukeschlather 8y agoThat article in its entirety is interesting, because there are not two but four monkeys from two different studies. Two on "restricted diets," and two on "unrestricted diets." In one study they fed both monkeys a highly processed diet of 30% sucrose. In the other study they fed both monkeys a less processed diet of 4% sucrose. The monkey with the poor health outcome was the one allowed to eat as much as it wanted of the highly processed 30% sucrose diet. So the "calorie restriction" seems to more likely just mean "don't eat more than 4% sugar, unless you are on an extremely calorie restricted diet."
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoThis only applies if you live a sedentary life with nothing to do all day. You can't draw any conclusions beyond that.
- andy_ppp 8y agoPeter Attia is an interesting person to listen to discussing ketosis and fasting; in [1] he only eats fat for a week followed by a 1 week fast and a further week of ketosis afterwards. In [2] he specifically talks about the benefits of Ketosis in depth with one of the leading experts in this field. [1] https://peterattiamd.com/ama02/ https://peterattiamd.com/ama02/ [2] https://peterattiamd.com/domdagostino/ https://peterattiamd.com/domdagostino/
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoHe doesn't eat anything for 1 week in 4?
- andy_ppp 8y agoFor 1 week at the start and at the end he eats no sugar or carbohydrate. For 1 week he the middle he drinks water and takes magnesium. That's it.
- guybedo 8y agoit was just a one time experiment as he wanted to do a 7-days water only fast and decided it would be better/easier to do a 7-days keto diet the week after and the week before. It's not something he does continuously all year long.
- amacbride 8y agoI know it's just one data point, but I've been doing a very mild form of intermittent fasting (more time-restricted eating) since June, and have been very happy with the results. (I stop eating by 8pm, don't start again until noon, but haven't done much in terms of changing what I'm actually eating.) At 5'5", I went from 156lbs. to 143 (goal is 135), and it's been relatively easy. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I feel great. This was inspired by a paper I read (I believe linked-to in this article, but I'll have to track it down later.) https://www.the-scientist.com/features/running-on-empty-31436 https://www.the-scientist.com/features/running-on-empty-3143...
- phkahler 8y agoClose your eating window to 4 hours and eliminate carbs. You'll drop weight incredibly fast. Delay lunch until 1-2pm and then have an early dinner if you can't bring yourself to eating just one meal a day. I did this and it is amazing, but I failed to keep it up long enough to become my normal.
- Angostura 8y ago> but I failed to keep it up long enough to become my normal. And that's exactly why you want to keep it to a moderate 8pm to 12 noon fast. Its not hard to do, you lose a little bit of weight each week. You end up healthier with minimal pain or change to life-style.
- linkmotif 8y agoyep I’ve found that moderation is my key to keeping up with anything like this. If I don’t exercise too hard, I’m inclined to come the next day or the day after. I’m on a very similar time restricted eating now, and it’s been sustainable because it’s not too extreme. I’ve experienced great results from it as well. I eat whole milk by way of coffee and then eat 1000 or so calories between 12:30 and 7 or 8 pm.
- DeBraid 8y ago
- phkahler 8y agoI hate this: "we are working on finding a new chemical that can mimic the effect of this ketone body's function" They know what the molecule is and it works in mice. I presume they want to find a patentable molecule to mimic the natural one.
- ecolonsmak 8y agoWell yeah, if it's not salable what's the point in spending anytime on the research?
- arcticbull 8y agoAnd they know it can be made in the body, free of charge, by changing eating schedule. Sounds like maybe convincing people to change their eating schedule is the way to go?
- titzer 8y agoBut, but, we can sell them lots of food and diet pills!
- mark_l_watson 8y agoI am in a study by Stanford University to only eat during a ten hour period each day. So far, I am sleeping better but subjectively that is all I can say. I do personally believe that in the past occasional 20 to 24 hour fasting and not eating after 6pm has increased my feeling of being healthy. My personal experiences don’t have much meaning so I am looking forward to more proper scientific studies in the future.
- always_good 8y agoI would've thought most people eat within a ten hour window (8-6p, 10-8p, etc), though probably only if you ignore snacking.
- zerop 8y agoI do fast once in a week and I have seen good benefits. I have been doing this since 2014. This is what I do: Dont eat breakfast, lunch or anything till dinner. (Some people skip breakfast and dinner). Though I do drink lemon juice once in the day. I obviously lost some weight, but more importantly it developed habit to ignore temptations. I find my self more relaxed overall.
- ainiriand 8y agoHow does it fit with intense anaerobic exercise? Is it safe to do? Can I expect dizziness?
- silverdrake11 8y agoI have definitely experienced dizziness and feeling faint while fasting.. I'm not sure it's safe to exercise.
- restallus 8y agoCoincidentally, Yom Kippur [1] begins tomorrow, when observant Jews fast for approximately 25 hours. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur
- abraham_lincoln 8y agoNo food, no liquids, no water. Is fasting with water less effective?
- restallus 8y agoLess effective in what sense? If one included drinking water, bathing/cleaning, or sexual relations it wouldn't be a proper religious fast, unless one is excepted from it, e.g. due to health issues. There are no degrees of effectiveness so to say.
- abraham_lincoln 8y agoI meant religous fast versus an occidental fast...
- davidf18 8y agoTish B' Av is another 25 hour fast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisha_B%27Av https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisha_B%27Av
- bodhibyte 8y agoI'm on a day 4 of a water-only fast and have completed a two-week medically supervised fast as well as many other shorter fast. As an anecdote, I can say water-only fasting in combination with a high nutrient density plant-based diet has helped me overcome some serious allergies and other health conditions. As an added bonus, I've lost 65 pounds from my peak weight over the last few years and my weight has been stable. It's not a panacea, but I've found it to be a net benefit. For those interested in a deeper dive on the benefits of water-only fasting and diets that try to mimic its benefits, as well as time-restricted feeding, see: Valter Longo, Ph.D. on Fasting-Mimicking Diet & Fasting for Longevity, Cancer & Multiple Sclerosis [1] Dr. Valter Longo on Resetting Autoimmunity and Rejuvenating Systems with Prolonged Fasting & the FMD [2] Dr. Satchin Panda on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health [3] Dr. Satchin Panda on Practical Implementation of Time-Restricted Eating & Shift Work Strategies [4] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-eqJDQ2nU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-eqJDQ2nU [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iywhaz5z0qs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iywhaz5z0qs [Edit to fix typos and formatting]
- dpatrick86 8y agoVery interesting to hear your successes in light of the immune cell turnover effect that prolonged fasting seems to have (Valter Longo's research). FYI: these episodes also have a transcript and show notes not available at the youtube URL. Here they are... [1] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo [2] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2 https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2 [3] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda [4] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2 https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2 This discussion may also be relevant to ketogenic diets where BHB is produced. See these two episodes focused on research on the ketogenic diet... • https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/eric-verdin https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/eric-verdin • https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dominic-dagostino https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dominic-dagostino