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Was ditching the headphone jack a good idea?

• peapicker 8y ago
  I say no. I use my iPhone heavily as a synth or guitar processor etc. Bluetooth latency is too high to make it useable wirelessly so I require a hardwire into a mixer to perform. The iPhone has the lowest latency audio stack of smartphones when used with a wire. This is important and removing the headphone jack means dongles or latency. What makes this especially bad is that the iPhone camera connector dongle is already required when plugging in many MIDI controllers. This has prevented me from upgrading beyond my 6s as many of my apps are challenged without a real-time audio output that doesn’t also use my lightning connector which I need for the camera connector.
  • village-idiot 8y ago
    While that’s quite unfortunate for you, is this a use case that affects a lot of users? I imagine that people in your situation are far less common than those who think the bundled headphones are good enough.
    • exabrial 8y ago
      Hardly an edge case. Consider the revenue generated by the Line6 Helix or Headrush and their many clones; it's a substantial revenue generator for these companies. Most live music musicians also purchase custom molded IEMs to protect their hearing and listen to a click track. Digital wireless audio simply does not work here. Even major brands like Sennheiser forgo digital transmission on their monitoring wireless packs because 5ms of latency is enough to induce combfiltering and throw a performer off.
      • village-idiot 8y ago
        You seem to misunderstand my point. I get that wires are better for serious musicians. I doubt that the number of people depending on their iPhones for low latency audio work is dwarfed by the number of people doing latency insensitive things like listening to podcasts or iTunes. iPhones are primarily consumer products, so catering to consumer and not professional needs first makes sense. Heck, the stuff you mentioned appears to be purpose built audio equipment. How would that be affected by the iPhone ditching the headphone jack?
        • snovv_crash 8y ago
          The difference is that now you won't see DJs in front of crowds using Apple products. Apple has decided to trade measurable cost-cutting for non-measurable brand prestige, and in the next few years I expect Microsoft to launch a new mobile/desktop hybrid with an ad about how Apple is what your grandparents use, and cool young trendy people use Windows.
          • 1123581321 8y ago
            That wouldn’t be a new move for Microsoft. They have found some success with Surface and they’re expanding the line. However, they are making similar trade-offs to Apple where able. They may release a new, popular product, but it will just solidify the trends that people in this thread are complaining about.
          • guitarbill 8y ago
            > The difference is that now you won't see DJs in front of crowds using Apple products. OK, I'll call BS. iPhones and iPads are barely used for live performances. On the Macbook side, other than USB-A, what have they gotten rid of that DJs truly need for performances? We were using USB MIDI interfaces and USB audio interfaces long before the optical audio out went away. Meanwhile I know a few musicians who haven't touched a Microsoft OS in over 10 years (!). Yeah, Microsoft finally introduced an Audio API in Vista to take on CoreAudio, but that isn't new. Does anybody like Windows 10 given the choice? If anything, I'd expect Microsoft's infamous Update strategy to make anything Windows 10 a non-option for live gigs. About the only argument I can think of is that musicians with less budget might lean more towards a Windows-based DAW.
          • village-idiot 8y ago
            Thanks for downvoting and then ignoring my point. I’ll repeat since you seem to have reading issues: how many serious musicians were depending on iPhones for live production instead of laptops or purpose built hardware?
            • dang 8y ago
      • UncleMeat 8y ago
        Sennheiser's revenue in 2017 was 600m. In 2017, Apple's revenue was 220b.
    • imtringued 8y ago
      Well, at a minimum, it affects all people that want to play video games.
  • wilsonfiifi 8y ago
    Or you could just use an iPad or iPad mini?
  • martin-adams 8y ago
    I feel your pain. I can’t use an external mic with my iPhone on a gimbal because the dongle causes a gap meaning it won’t balance. These aren’t mainstream problems, but are problems nonetheless. I don’t mind using a dongle, as long as it works. In my case, there is no solution. That Why I still use my old Samsung on the gimbal.
    • panic 8y ago
      Maybe these aren't mainstream problems, but they do reflect a change in Apple's brand. Apple used to position themselves as the brand for artists, musicians, and other creative types. They even used to hide an optical audio port in the MacBook Pro headphone jack -- talk about a niche feature! But around the same time iPhones lost their headphone jack, the laptops lost their optical port: https://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/new-macbook-pro-drops-optical-audio-out-through-headphone-jack https://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/new-macbook-pro-d.... I'm sure it's ultimately because Tim doesn't care as much as Steve about this stuff, but it does feel like something is being lost.
      • ohyes 8y ago
        It was part of their branding, Apple stuff is for creative people, it lets them get shit done. Now it’s more of a status symbol, I’ve got an apple rather than a crappy generic android or think pad.
      • _red 8y ago
        Tim Cook is to Apple as Steve Balmer was to MS. Both companies stocks soared under each, largely because of their cost cutting / monetization of every aspect of product. However, in both cases, such maneuvers wound up alienating their core supporters and causing strategic brand identity issues. Eventually the board will have to replace TC (and most of the stagnant C-levels) and hopefully, like Microsoft, this will lead to a revitalization of Apple. The "XS Max"...really? Sounds like they've outsourced more than just manufacturing to China.
      • Bud 8y ago
        This is just silly. First, Steve Jobs would have cut these obsolete interfaces just as ruthlessly as Apple has done so under Tim Cook. Jobs had a long history of doing so. Second, this almost certainly wasn't even Tim Cook's call. I don't think Tim tells Jony Ive and the iPhone team which design decisions to make.
  • swingline-747 8y ago
    I'm using the headphone jack right now connecting to wireless headphones with a failed Bluetooth section. The headphones will be sent back to the mfgr for warranty service.
  • TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    All the current and past iPad models come with 3.5mm headphone jack. So I suppose Apple would just want you to buy an iPad as well! for your music production.
    • cm2187 8y ago
      All the rumors I heard point to apple ditching the headphone jack in the coming model.
  • avcdsuia 8y ago
    Will Apple ditch Lightning and switch to USB Type-C solve your problem?
    • cptskippy 8y ago
      That would probably make it worse since USB-C audio is such a mess right now.
      • wilsonnb3 8y ago
        USB C audio isn’t a mess right now. We’ve had USB audio figured out for at least 10 years and USB C is no different.
        • WillPostForFood 8y ago
          According to Google’s official documentation: “Android 5.0 (API level 21) and above supports a subset of USB audio class 1.” This subset is more limited than the full class 1 specification, limiting audio to two channels of 24-bit PCM data with a frequency up to 48kHz. There’s no default support for high sample rate audio over USB out of the box. Individual smartphone manufacturers can implement full audio class specifications on top of Android’s default and many do. In fact, Google supports all three of the USB Audio Classes with the Pixel 2. However, this leads consumers not knowing what to expect from their handsets. You can find forums full of users struggling to understand why products don’t work with their specific smartphone, along with headache-inducing workarounds requiring specific apps and USB OTG cables. https://www.soundguys.com/android-usb-audio-class-3-0-18494/ https://www.soundguys.com/android-usb-audio-class-3-0-18494/
          • smolder 8y ago
            So then Android USB is a mess right now.
            • WillPostForFood 8y ago
              I don't think it makes a great argument to say the USB Audio is great, it's just USB is a problem. They both need to work for USB Audio to work.
  • SSLy 8y ago
    Have you checked the Samsung Galaxy S8/Note8 line? It seems that these phones include a customized sound framework for very low processing delays, AND they include jacks. Google for Soundcamp.
    • fogetti 8y ago
      That looks really cool. Thanks for recommending it here!
    • peapicker 8y ago
      The other problem with Android is due to sideloading and app hacking, the best pro level apps (which are expensive for apps) have mostly chosen to avoid Android rather than experience high levels of piracy the last time I researched it. (KORG Gadget for example doesn’t exist on Android)
  • delinka 8y ago
    This is the rub. With the removal of the jack, Apple is telling us that their phones are not [music/audio] creators' tools. Apparently it's their desire that creators use, what, iPad? Their ever-disappointing line of laptops? The outdated Mac Pro? I just don't know. I do know that from the entire collection of screen sizes and hardware configuration options I'd like to choose my mode of creation, but Apple seems to think that telling me "iPhone is not a creation device" is Just Fine®.
    • tazjin 8y ago
      > Apparently it's their desire that creators use, what, iPad? Their ever-disappointing line of laptops? The outdated Mac Pro? I just don't know. Or maybe ... none of the above? Content creators are probably a tiny fraction of Apple's user base at this point. I think they just don't care.
      • bdamm 8y ago
        It’s a mistake. We’re paying $1000+ for this tool that presents itself as a versatile information slinger, well I hope it can do more than Facebook, Instagram and Gmail. This is an amazing platform, completely damaged by its limited IO. Apple is moving away from its roots. Not good. Creators will go elsewhere, their desirable creations will become native elsewhere, and the sheep will follow.
        • nine_k 8y ago
          It's a bit late to say so. Apple has moved away from its accessible hardware roots when it has moved from Apple II to the original Macintosh. Just to remind, the original iPhone did not allow user-installable apps at all.
        • sandov 8y ago
          Why try to appeal to the creators when people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for pretty social media boxes?
      • mohdmasd 8y ago
• tlarkworthy 8y ago
  My wife dropped her phone down the toilet. It survived! So the no Jack was a big win for her. The article is missing that very reasonable use case for no Jack.
  • pgo 8y ago
    There is no correlation in being waterproof and not having a headphone jack. Several phones have both
    • tlarkworthy 8y ago
      It's one of of the quoted reasons at least: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/07/apple-explains-headphone-jack-removal/ https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/07/apple-explains-headphon...
  • inpdx 8y ago
    Plenty of IP68 phones have headphone jacks.
  • exabrial 8y ago
    Samsung has had waterproof headphone jacks for years. My LG v35 has a quite nice "Quad DAC" and a waterproof headphone jack. It's absurd to think that Apple has eleventy billion dollars but can't design a waterproof headphone jack.
  • lake99 8y ago
    I would wash my old Moto G under a tap whenever it looked a bit dirty. It had a jack. Plenty of phones that have jacks are waterproof.
  • village-idiot 8y ago
    Had mine in my short pockets while wet wading and the damn camera flooded and died. I’m less than thrilled with apples waterproofing, headphone jack or no.
• hayksaakian 8y ago
  Does anyone truly believe they removed the headphone jack for any reason other than to sell more dongles and more wireless headphones?
  • schrodinger 8y ago
    Yes, I do.
  • CoolGuySteve 8y ago
    There is marginally more volume for the battery and camera/sensor array to take up. I'd rather have a thicker phone, especially one where the cameras don't protrude out the back, but I don't get to design these things.
    • village-idiot 8y ago
      I’d accept more thickness for a more durable phone, personally.
  • 0xFACEFEED 8y ago
    So I've tried using several bluetooth headphones before Airpods were around. They all sucked. Things like audio stuttering while inches away from the transmitter and short battery life is what made them suck. I gave up on bluetooth headphones for good; I hated them. Oh and the convenience of wireless wasn't even that important to me (or so I thought). Now I have a pair of airpods and I love them. The improvement is marginal, but it's an improvement that touches many aspects of my life (commuting, cooking, sleeping, working). I love, love, love them. > Does anyone truly believe they removed the headphone jack for any reason other than to sell more dongles and more wireless headphones? I think Apple believes that wireless headphones are the future and they decided to prove that it can be done right. IMO they succeeded with airpods. Removing the headphone jack was a forcing function. It's only an issue if you don't buy into the Apple ecosystem. Obviously that's a risk, but it's a risk that Apple has taken before. Assuming it's some kind of cockameme plan to sell more dongles doesn't really fit the profile of Apple as a company, IMO.
• hanief 8y ago
  Apple is pursuing the wireless future, as simple as that. Be it audio, data transfer, or even power. In the case of headphone jack, they pursue that goal by fixing the bluetooth flaws not by content with what we have right now. Is it a worthy goal to pursue? Time will tell.
  • pieterk 8y ago
    Exactly, this was a logical progression to that future. Want to make a completely wireless device? Take away the things that are easy to do wirelessly. First: audio, then power, next up is...?
  • StreamBright 8y ago
    I am not against the future but shouldn't we have the alternative ready before we kill the 'previous' version of something? For me the new wireless headphones are not an option because of lack of hi-fi options and because of the need of charging frequently. If we had the same exact experience (great sound quality for lossless and once a year charging) than I would be more inclined to buy it.
    • baddox 8y ago
      Caring about hi-fi headphone audio and needing to charge frequently while listening to audio is probably a combination of requirements that affects an extremely tiny portion of iPhone users. Also, there’s wireless charging.
    • threeseed 8y ago
      But you're part of an insignificant minority. People charge their phone everyday so it isn't a massive deal to charge your AirPods as well. And the sound quality right now is more than good enough especially given that you're asking people to tradeoff their data usage.
      • Johnny555 8y ago
        I tend to leave my headphones in my backpack or jacket pocket. (well, actually both, they are so cheap that I have a half dozen sets of earbuds scattered around different places - I have a nice ~$150 set of earbuds at my desk at work, and cheap < $20 sets everywhere else) If I have to charge them then I have to remember to take them out and plug them in, and also then have to remember to take them out of the charger and take them with me. I'm not super sensitive to sound quality, but charging is a deal breaker.
• exabrial 8y ago
  Is there enough bandwidth available in a cubicle farm or 787 for everyone to use their airpods? I doubt it. Headphone jack was a nice reliable piece of hardware. Thank goodness some other brands are rooted in reality.
  • newsbinator 8y ago
    That's a good question. What number of AirPods users would there have to be on a 787 for the interference to become a problem?
  • threeseed 8y ago
    Headphone jack is a nice reliable piece of hardware. But it comes at the expense of more space for batteries or features that more people will use. Ethernet is more reliable than WiFi. Power is more reliable than batteries. But the world doesn't want wires so Apple has to listen.
    • e1ven 8y ago
      A) They could make it thicker. It’s not an either/or. B) No one was calling for the elimination of the headphone jack. Every poll shows broad support for it. Apple themselves said it took ‘courage’ which is not the adjective you’d use to describe an action that the world agrees with.
      • threeseed 8y ago
        Sure they could make it thicker. But they won't because I suspect over the last decade they have done market research which tells them IMHO the obvious: nobody wants a thicker phone. Common sense suggests that if the world wanted a thicker phone then one of the hundreds of OEMs would have made one and been successful at it. But yet that has never happened.
        • huntie 8y ago
          I've consistently heard people say that they would prefer a thicker phone if it meant greater battery life, so clearly there isn't nobody who wants a thicker phone.
• jkabrg 8y ago
  Problem with non-wireless headphones is that they break. One side of the headphones stops playing sounds; you can sometimes spin the connector and get the sound back, but that gets annoying, and it stops working eventually. The less wires and connectors, the less things can break, no?
  • Casseres 8y ago
    > The less wires and connectors They probably require a wire to be charged. They also lose charge when it's least convenient.
    • threeseed 8y ago
      It uses the same wire you use to charge your phone. And so it isn't like you're carrying anything extra.
      • Casseres 8y ago
        I haven't been shopping for any lately, are there any that charge via USB-C?
      • justtopost 8y ago
        Do you carry chargers everywhere you go? I top off my phone in the am and leave it at home. Do you wear cargo pants?
  • TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
    No. Bluetooth is far more hit and miss than a physical connection.
    • threeseed 8y ago
      Not with AirPods it isn't. Hence its popularity. And as someone who has owned many IEMs over the long term those cables all end up breaking. And for IEMs with replaceable cables it's the connectors that break.
• tobyhinloopen 8y ago
  Was using light text on a bright background a good idea? No.
  • jwilk 8y ago
    I added this to my Firefox's userContent.css: @-moz-document domain(soundguys.com) { #sticky-bar { position: absolute !important; } p, div { color: initial !important; } body { text-shadow: initial !important; } }
    • mrob 8y ago
      I use Firefox's Reader View to fix low contrast text. You need to edit userContent.css to get the full contrast: @-moz-document url-prefix("about:reader") { body { background-color: #FFFFFF !important; color: #000000 !important; } } If Reader View doesn't work, it's usually easy to find the font color CSS in the Web Developer tools.
• gaspoweredcat 8y ago
  no it was not, some of us still like our high quality wired headphones. with that said im also a great believer in having a dedicated device, while ill occasionally use my phone for convenience i generally use a separate device for music as it can provide much better sound quality and not hammer my phones already under capable battery but im a little more serious about my audio than most people. it does however highlight an interesting point, most portable devices make a consideration for air travel in their design, the dell xps15 for example has a 97wh battery because 99wh is the limit for taking into an airplane cabin, yet turn on airplane mode on your phone and it disables all wireless connections, bluetooth included so if you were relying on your airpods to provide your in flight music youre out of luck
  • beojan 8y ago
    You can turn on airplane mode, then turn Bluetooth on specifically.
    • gaspoweredcat 8y ago
      is that an iphone specific feature? (im an android user so not that familiar with ios) if not ive just not noticed it before i guess it highlights how stupid the ban on wireless connectivity on planes is (not like it wasnt blatantly obvious that theyd never let a vehicle carrying hundreds of lives into the sky with unsheilded components that could be brought down by anyone with a ten quid nokia)
      • Symbiote 8y ago
        It works on my Android phone, and the last few flights I've taken have specifically said "we don't have WiFi, but you can activate airplane mode then turn on Bluetooth". (Your writing would be much easier to read with capital letters and apostrophes.)
        • gaspoweredcat 8y ago
          probably and were i not jobless, homeless and using a knackered old laptop with several non working keys including the at/apostrophe key and incredibly intermittent shift keys id likely use them more often but such is life
• nopacience 8y ago
  I like wires. Every time i can, i choose to use a wire. Be it for internet or headphones. The reason for my wired preference is security. I trust cables more than i trust wireless. Bluetooth is insecure. I dont think it is secure to walk around in a mall with your bluetooth turned on. (correct me if i am wrong) Wifi WPA2 is probably secure. However wifi WEP is completely insecure. For many years WEP has been widely used. Another problem with wifi are fake networks that use the same name as a public network. Another interesting fact with wired headphones is they wont fall down directly on the floor, because of the wires. The same goes with the computer mouse.. sometimes it moves to the edge of the table and might want to fall.. the wire will hold it. Wireless keyboards is definitively a no go since teorically its possible to passively listen for pressed keys just like a keylogger. Wireless technology sure looks better without all the wires, however when people choose convenience(wireless), they lose some security. So when i can, i choose wires.
  • IshKebab 8y ago
    > I dont think it is secure to walk around in a mall with your bluetooth turned on. (correct me if i am wrong) You are wrong. I don't recall any Bluetooth security issues from just having Bluetooth on or from having an established connection. Those things are pretty well solved in all vaguely modern wireless standards. The issues are always around the initial connection and key exchange. PIN-based pairing has various flaws in Bluetooth, but Bluetooth headphones use "Just Works" pairing, which I don't think has had any issues, other than the design compromise that it is vulnerable to MitM. That is vanishingly unlikely to happen with Bluetooth headphones though. WPA2 is secure if you use a very strong password. WEP is basically extinct.
    • tsxxst 8y ago
      Just a year ago, a remote execution vulnerability was discovered in bluetooth stacks across major OSes: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/bluetooth_bugs_bedevil_billions_of_devices/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/bluetooth_bugs_bede... > "Just having Bluetooth on puts you at risk," said Izrael.
  • pritambaral 8y ago
• mnm1 8y ago
  I've never met a Bluetooth device that connected and worked 100% of the time like wired headphones do. $10 headphones these days sound like $100 headphones from ten years ago. The technology has already peaked. There's no reason to spend more or to settle for a technology like Bluetooth that fails to work on a consistent basis. None whatsoever. I will never choose to buy a phone without a headphone jack because of that. It's that simple. Not to mention the low audio quality of Bluetooth. This is definitely an example of an inferior technology being pushed out simply for profits to replace a superior one.
• megakwood 8y ago
  To paraphrase Doc Brown, "Where we're going, we don't need headphone jacks" Airpods are awesome, and they'll only get better. A cord running to your pocket is seriously a thing of the past, and all these posts will age terribly. Just like the serial port ones, the floppy ones, the cd rom ones... And for all this noise, what I can't for the life of my understand is why these people can't just use a god damn adapter. They make high quality DAC ones, too. Just leave it attached to your headphones. What's the damn problem? The rest of us get a better, thinner phone.
  • blattimwind 8y ago
    > What's the damn problem? The rest of us get a better, thinner phone. If you bothered to look at the specs, you'd have noticed this not to be true.
  • KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Great, so now I've got a dongle attached to my earphones. How about the PA or stereo I need to plug in to, in order to stream music? Should I just always carry a spare dongle in my pocket? Or rely on everyone having the appropriate Lightning/USB-C dongle already? Or maybe just use the industry standard 3.5mm jack, because it always Just Works.
  • bambax 8y ago
    Did you read peapicker's comment before posting your own? (It's older by an hour). Some people need wired headphones and if the port is used for something else then they can't. Also it's completely untrue that the iPhone is "thinner" without a headphone jack; this guy added a jack to an iPhone 7 without external modification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA The video has over 6M views. Apple doesn't care much about their users -- but it's hard to blame them, since said users are apparently happy with it.
    • AnthonBerg 8y ago
      Is the modified phone as waterproof as before?
• tomduncalf 8y ago
  Ended up attaching my dongle to my headphones with a Velcro cable tie after forgetting it one too many times (I need to take it on and off all the time to connect it to my Mac, as it doesn’t have a Lightning port - the fact that that situation exists feels like an omen that Apple aren’t quite firing on all cylinders). It sucks and looks stupid but it kind of solves the problem. I wish they’d not removed the port, it’s a real pain and I’m not willing to go wireless until there’s a way to do it with zero latency. I’ll be really disappointed if the new iPad removes the headphone socket as it’s pretty essential for music making on the go.
  • Feeble 8y ago
    I use a dongle too. I got it permanently attached on my headphones. i think he makes a false dichotomy in his article. He is not bringing up a dongle at all and makes the choice to either a phone with a 3.5mm output or bluetooth. I would give this more credibility if this was discussed as well.
    • philjohn 8y ago
      It was called out in the comments, and a link provided to the product page on Apple.com with nothing more than a "nuh-uh" to accompany it.
• pornel 8y ago
  I've got AirPods and I'm sold. I'm not going back to wired headphones. Apple has got proximity-based pairing nailed so well, it's easier than plugging a jack in. I can connect to other iPhones as easily as mine. Macs logged in to my iCloud don't need pairing at all. It works like it should, not like a typical Bluetooth crap. The charging case is more convenient to carry than a bundle of wires. And of course I can walk around, zip my jacket, etc. without minding the wire. It's more expensive, proprietary, it doesn't work well for some people. But I can definitely see why having AirPods Apple thought wired headphones are the next floppy drive.
  • p0la 8y ago
    On point
  • insickness 8y ago
    I loved everything about the AirPods except that they have no noise reduction. The New York City subway is loud as hell. Street noise is loud as hell. Even when not wearing headphones I wear earplugs to block out all the noise.
    • naravara 8y ago
      The BeatsX are earplug type headphones that do decent sound isolation. They’re not as snazzy as the AirPods and they have some minor UX frustrations, but for the most part have been pretty good.
      • abakker 8y ago
        The Shure ones are great. Standard Bluetooth issues, but, good sound quality and great passive noise isolation.
      • ggreer 8y ago
        I'm in the same boat. I replaced the BeatsX tips with some 3rd party foamies and they do a pretty good job of damping external noise. I don't recommend the PowerBeats though. No matter what sort of tips you use, they mute almost nothing. Also, the slightest breeze causes tons of wind noise.
• KozmoNau7 8y ago
  It was an absolutely terrible idea. I use the headphone jack on my phone every single day, either for my high-quality earphones that I'm not in a hurry to replace, or for plugging in to a PA or stereo at a party, to stream music. I don't want to carry a single around, and the 3.5mm jack is the standard for analog stereo audio.
  • lemiffe 8y ago
    Not only audio, but now my selfie stick is irrelevant!
  • KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Dongle, not single. Silly autocorrect.
• swingline-747 8y ago
  It's possible to make an iPhone 6S 16 GiB into 256 GiB with a chip programmer and swapping BGA chips. Cost for the chip is around $50 USD.
• peterbraden 8y ago
  I'm more angry at google for removing them from the pixel than for apple. I want to vote with my dollars, but at the moment the options for phones with headphone jacks and no crapware preinstalled are exceedingly limited.
  • heavenlyhash 8y ago
    > the options for phones with headphone jacks and no crapware preinstalled are exceedingly limited. A thousand times this. The current market for phones is absolute crap. We need more competition. (And we also need at least some of that competition to quit playing "follow the leader" when the "leader" is an imagined title, and the "leader" is clearly blind and thrashing...)
    • cycrutchfield 8y ago
      Blind and thrashing its way to record profits and share price. Apparently plenty of people do not share your opinion about Apple phones.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • zouhair 8y ago
    Well Samsung phones with LineageOS[0] are more than decent. [0]: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
  • walterbell 8y ago
    Nokia 6.1 (Android ONE) Blackberry KEY2 / KEY2 LE Both have headphone jack, dual SIM (or SIM + micro SD) and monthly updates. BB even has a keyboard!
  • imandride 8y ago
    I have found OnePlus does the trick for me. I actually prefer if it to any of the mainstream phones.
• BurritoAlPastor 8y ago
  I'm pretty disgruntled about losing the 3.5mm jack, but I don't buy this idea that Apple did it to sell wireless Beats, for one reason: the product lineup sucks. Apple knows how to make truly great audio hardware; the AirPods really are extraordinary. But the Beats lineup clearly hasn't received any serious attention, as evidenced by two things: 1) they still sell wireless hardware that doesn't have the W1 chip, two years after it was first released 2) for God's sake, all their devices charge over micro-USB!
  • robin_reala 8y ago
    Re 2), the Beats X charge over Lightning.
  • user5994461 8y ago
    >>> but I don't buy this idea that Apple did it to sell wireless Beats, for one reason: the product lineup sucks. Counter argument. The product lineup sucks so they had to help the sales in any way possible.
  • theonemind 8y ago
    Well, the article shows that Beats still has a plurality in the bluetooth market in sales dollars and units sold. Beats quality aside, I think that still makes a highly plausible (partial) motivation to push people toward bluetooth.
• teknico 8y ago
  Nope. Nor is grey text.
• VintageCool 8y ago
  Reading these threads, I feel like I am the only person in the world who has had problems with headphones jacks. There's a big scuzzy pop when you plug in or remove the jack while speakers are on. I've had several devices get crud in the jack, so that you have to rotate and push and position the jack just right to get sound. Still, I appreciate having the wire and I wish that USB-C headphones had done better. I would have liked to get phones with two USB-C ports.
  • CodeWriter23 8y ago
    You’re not the only one. But now I feel like I’m the only one who has the exact same issues with Lightning connections. I get the same pop when jacking in using the Lightning-to-3.5 dongle. And I mean, making the 3.5 connection first, Lightning second. Also, Lighting (and I suspect USB C) female connectors are dust, lint, and particulate magnets. What happens when those get fouled, the gold plating on the Lightning cable is scraped off one or more of the pins. So then you have either a broken cable or one that will charge but only if oriented correctly. So same issue, rotate the connector and maybe it works. AND the thing that pisses me off the most...I have to carry around some old earbuds with the 3.5 in case I want to watch some Netflix on my MacBook Pro because I can’t plug my new EarPids into it. There’s no Lightning jack on any Mac. And there’s not even a dongle for that use case. All the USB M to Lightning F are for charging only.
    • toxik 8y ago
      Huh, I got 3.5mm earphones and an adapter with my phone. Also, get AirPods. Unless you call for several hours uninterrupted every day, like somebody up thread claimed.
      • Fnoord 8y ago
        Airpods? Lets see. MacRumors Buyer's Guide says "caution - approaching end of life cycle" [1] Furthermore they look terrible. They're white, and they look like I have an Oral B toothbrush in my ears. I have no option to avoid either of that? Thank you, no. As for the discussion: I'd like to be able to enter a store, listening to music, with all my radios off. It is called airplane mode. Was removing 1 gbit ethernet from laptops a good idea? I miss it, but having an adequate amount of USB ports solves the issue. Why not have two 2 USB-C ports on a smartphone and be done with it? [1] https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#AirPods https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#AirPods
• helpfulTroll 8y ago
  There are a few reasons it was a terrible idea: - You can't take lightning headphones and use them as headphones in all lightning ports. - You can't take lightning headphones and use them on any other Apple product other then modern, premium iPhones. - It doesn't enable compatibility with other new Apple products. In fact, it hinders compatibility with USB-C ports in newer Apple laptops. *What?* - If Apple went all-in on USB-C with laptops, the lightning port on new iPhones feels like either an anachronism or accentuates the lock-in attempt. - Bluetooth really isn't very good, not at a level that guarantees perfect, continuous audio streams. It's not an ideal step up from a good, durable wire. - Air pods and other headphone upgrades are double disposable, in that, not only are they particularly expensive options, but easily lost, stolen or destroyed. Laundry and drop hazards, above and beyond theft, basically add constant anxiety to the total cost of ownership for air pods in particular. - General inconvenience of replacement forces odd work-around strategies for times when you can't find your headphones. If you're running late, and you lost them in the couch cushions or under the bed, what are your options? I can think of a number of additional diminishingly valuable what-ifs, but you get the point. Life always turns out better with the widely adopted standardized options, since headphones take on the primary expendable accessory, and the alternatives are hemmed in, such that they're always worse. But now what? It's just going to be this irritating thing, until an excuse lets Apple back down while saving face. Whatever.
• DanielBMarkham 8y ago
  I'll never forget when I realized people were paying for ringtones. Why the heck would you do that? I just downloaded some and stuck them on my phone. Then I bought Star Wars and watched it at home. VHS for the win! Then the same frickin' movie came out on DVD. I decided to buy it. Why would I do that? Because I was sold on the feature combination of DVDs. Then BluRay. I bought again. Why? The movie had new features, and BluRay was more cool. I had become those people I was laughing at with the ringtones, spending money for stuff that either should be free or was basically worthless. I love movies. I have a lot of movies in various formats. But re-mixes of the same stupid movie? I'm being taken for a ride. Now they keep the same movie, the same plot, the same hardware -- but re-make it with currently-popular actors. Why would people pay for this....I asked myself as I sat in the movie theater a couple of months ago. There's less and less "new people creating new things that enriches society" and more and more "You bought X, you'll really love X1!" Anybody that doesn't know where headphoneless-phones is going hasn't been paying attention. Ten years from now, when they've finally locked down DRM audio from the seller to the actual device you listen to it on? They'll be charging you multiple times to listen to the same sound. Plus they make money on the hardware. Double bonus points for getting you on a hardware upgrade gravy train also locked in by vendor.
• talltimtom 8y ago
  What the people who keep complaining about this don’t realize and will never realize is that there are tons of users who prefer the new Jack and will never have any issues with it at all. You keep arguing about this “fiasco” but in reality Apple is fine, the majority of users are happy and this is all just an imagined issue like when they introduced the iPhone which would fail because it was just an iPod with a phone in it, or the touchscreen that would never be able to compete with tactile keyboards or the tablet that didn’t even run a proper desktop operating system.
• xte 8y ago
  No. Simply because it have many use, from music play with external stereo to mobile-POS (credit card payment via audio/dummy modem) etc.
• dabbledash 8y ago
  I was not irritated by the thickness or weight of my iPhone 6 and its headphone jack. I am regularly irritated by the fact that I can’t charge my iPhone and plug in headphones at the same time. Obviously I can plan around this, but it’s gone from something I don’t have to think about to something I have to think about.
  • annamargot 8y ago
    Agreed. Wireless charging would be helpful.
    • anonu 8y ago
      Does wireless charging meet the same performance levels of wired charging? Doesn't it take much longer to do an induction charge? It's like a lose lose here. Poorer audio quality with bluetooth, slower charging with wireless....
      • annamargot 8y ago
        It’s getting better I guess. I’ll let you know in a couple years when I’m ready to ditch my iPhone 7. https://wccftech.com/the-iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max-both-have-faster-wireless-charging-than-iphone-x-video/ https://wccftech.com/the-iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max-both-ha...
      • Bud 8y ago
        Much longer? No, unless you're comparing to using fast charge with a 30W charger and USB-C to Lightning cable. Somewhat longer? Yes. 7.5W is common for induction chargers. Apple's iPhone chargers in the box have long been 5W; I don't know what the wattage will be on this year's iPhone chargers. You lose some speed, you gain some convenience.
        • toomuchtodo 8y ago
          It's also unfortunately less efficient, consuming more power not using a cable to charge.
• fouc 8y ago
  I wonder if anyone with a jackless iPhone compensates by carrying an iPod nano for listening to music with?
  • grvdrm 8y ago
    Absolutely. I’ve kept my nano for years.
• einrealist 8y ago
  I am still pissed at Apple for removing the jack and I held on to my iPhone 6s, until now. I ordered myself an iPhone Xs Max, but only because Shure now offers a Lightning cable for their IEMs. I use the SE846. The biggest issue with the Xs is still, that I cant charge and listen at the same time without using a dongle. And since I travel a lot, this could make me reconsider to buy Apple in the future. Apple really lost points for removing the jack.
  • komeijist 8y ago
    Not pissed enough to reconsider the heavy iphone xs max investment apparently, which, in the end, might have made a difference compared to continuously feeding them money.
    • einrealist 8y ago
      That's true. For me, the advantages of a stable Apple ecosystem outweigh the issue with the missing headphone jack. The fact that I can still use and upgrade my iPhone 6s is validation. With Android, I always fear that I don't get updates anymore after just two years. And I never liked Google's app store. There too many malicious apps in the store. I probably use the new iPhone at least as long as I used the old one. The update cycles are getting longer as these phones get more powerful.
    • pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      It's like "honey you need to do something about your weight; here I made you a burger on a doughnut bun with triple cheese and fudge sauce". You only really have one way to communicate with a large corporation - give money, or withhold money.
• coldtea 8y ago
  >With the new iPhones coming out today, I wanted to revisit the whole Apple vs. headphone jack fiasco. You keep using that word, fiasco. I don't think it means what you think it means. It doesn't mean "hoopla". It means "disaster/failure". With the phones selling more than any model before them, I'd hardly call that decision a fiasco for Apple.
  • sidstling 8y ago
    This, I see people calling the removal of the headphone jack a colossal failure, but if phones are selling, then how can it be a failure? People have a natural resistance to change, 20 years ago my city saw major protests when it wanted to close a road and open up to the river underneath it. It would be a colossal failure, naturally it wasn’t and today no one can imagine the town without the nice nature stuff. I think the headphone jacks are in that category. They weren’t really great, and now that they are gone, only niches really miss them. The AirPods are such a nice product. I mean, Apple basically made Bluetooth not suck. They are locked to the Apple ecosystem, but they connect seamlessly across your devices, and Apple has frankly once again embarrassed the rest of the tech sector by making age old technology actually useable for people who don’t want to fiddle around. Now, if removing the headphone jack had been a failure, it would probably have come back, and everyone else, the one-plus included, probably wouldn’t be removing it. I’m not for or against it by the way. The AirPods would’ve worked with the headphone jack. I just think calling it a failure or a fiasco is silly when it’s so obviously working out great.
  • silverbax88 8y ago
    But Apple isn't the top selling phone any more. It's the Galaxy models. The only time new Apple phones retake the top spot is when they first release a new model.
    • coldtea 8y ago
      >But Apple isn't the top selling phone any more. It's the Galaxy models. The iPhone rarely was the top selling phone and never had the majority of the market (though it was of course a single company against 4-5 other companies anyway). It was the phone that caught most of the top end (pricy) market and almost all of the profits, and it remains that. That said, not sure what's this "isn't the top selling phone any more" is supposed to mean. The headphone-jack-less iPhone X killed it in the market: https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-was-best-selling-smartphone-in-early-2018/ https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-was-best-selling-smartpho...
• chiph 8y ago
  So Apple did it to fatten the bottom line of their Beats subsidiary, which currently owns about half the Bluetooth headphone market. So why is everyone else dropping the jack on their phones? They don't have a similar profitable arrangement. It seems like they're just pissing-off potential customers, but without an income stream to compensate.
  • geerlingguy 8y ago
    It also reduces the bill of materials (cheaper and easier manufacturing), saves a decent chunk of space inside a very compact electronics device, and greatly improves ease of maintaining water resistance. Not saying I like the trend, just that it does make sense even if you don’t sell wireless headphones too.
• albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  I use the headphones for phone calls, I often work remotely / travel and have maybe 3-4 hours on the phone a day on average. Wireless headphones don’t have a mic I can hold close to my mouth, and headsets look doorky, especially if I’m travelling. Not to mention that if the battery runs out I’m stuck holding the phone to my ear (no ability to mute) or on speakerphone (can’t work in an open office or public environment). Not being able to charge the phone and be on the phone at the same time is incredibly annoying. Sometimes I take video calls on my laptop and I can’t plug the lightning headphones into my laptop without an adapter. I didn’t think it would annoy me so much but there are times when I need to get work done and this gets in the way, and the alternatives just aren’t reliable enough. Having a thinner phone is irrelevant because I have to put a case around it anyway. It’s frustrating that we have so many different connectors (lightning, 3.5mm, Bluetooth, hdmi, mini usb, usb C, usb A, MagSafe, ...). I wish apple would pick one and go for it (usb C maybe?)
  • aembleton 8y ago
    Why do you need to hold the microphone close to your mouth? I often answer calls whilst wearing these cheap Mpow earphones. Even with background traffic noise people can still hear me http://amzn.eu/d/8zNp1kz http://amzn.eu/d/8zNp1kz
    • silverbax88 8y ago
      I'll bet they can't hear you as well as you think. I've gotten many calls from people who fade in/out no matter how many times I tell them I'm having trouble hearing them. It's because they can hear themselves and think it's fine.
    • albertgoeswoof 8y ago
      People can’t hear in some cases, especially as I work with people from all over the world and English is often a second language. You need to be 100% clear, consistently without failure. Also, it looks weird if I don’t pull the mic closer. With your headphones people can’t tell you’re on the phone. We’ve had telephones for over 100 years so I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
• 0xakhil 8y ago
  Some 3rd party accessories used 3.5mm jack to transfer data without MFI chip. Maybe Apple didnt like that for some reason. Just a thought.
• obviously1999 8y ago
  get an iphone 5 or se and charge while using headphones to heart's content.
• obviously1999 8y ago
  try the iphone 5 or SE
• b3b0p 8y ago
  Removing the headphone jack, but allowing the option to use a dongle, I can live with. What really drives me nuts is all these (expensive) wireless headphones and earbuds, but the batteries are not replaceable. After a year or few they basically become useless because the batteries end up degrading and lasting only a fraction of when they were new.
• amaccuish 8y ago
  I think this is a false comparison. If USB-C had been better defined and chosen by all manufacturers, we wouldn't have had a problem with replacing the headphone jack I feel.
• jjuhl 8y ago
  I recently needed a new phone and ended up buying a Nokia 8. The fact that it had a headphone jack was one of my main reasons for selecting it. I'm not going to ditch my collection of high quality functioning headphones just to spend more money buying new ones and getting worse audio quality.
• abakker 8y ago
  As someone about to board a plane with my SO, one problem that would be nice is if apple devices could do simultaneous devices connected. My iPad plus headphone splitter is ok, but, I’m mostly on Bluetooth only headphones. If you want to share a listen, you need wired ones. Seems like they could fix this audio stack to allow this, or maybe we need a big upgrade to Bluetooth hardware to allow it.
  • floo 8y ago
    Not saying that this is a proper solution for everyone, but Bose does support listening to the same phone with two pairs of headphones. You would just have to pair them. I agree that this would be useful to have at the OS level though!
• cimmanom 8y ago
  How much of this is due to media companies trying to eliminate analog audio and video outputs so as to better enforce DRM?
  • justtopost 8y ago
    I suspect this is the primary motivator, and oddly far down in the discussion.
• johnchristopher 8y ago
  The headphone jack of every portable devices I ever owned have all broken at some points. I'd rather have Bluetooth everywhere with USB as a backup now.
• delinka 8y ago
  "...Some people can only afford $20 headphones" Have you seen the prices on Apple devices?
  • sparkie 8y ago
    The main complaint is that manufacturers of budget phones are following suit, but damaging themselves in the process because they're misguided about what their users really want. Having android phones with 3.5/2.5mm jacks would keep the analogue headphone industry alive, but if the whole industry moves to bluetooth only headphones, we're worse off for it overall.
  • ummonk 8y ago
    The iPhone SE has a headphone jack, and is affordable. A great little phone. Now Apple is killing it.
• what-the-grump 8y ago
  Oh man, I’ve been using my 6s all this time and forgot. Just when I was thinking about upgrading to the Xs, this thread is a reminder of why I’ve been holding off. May do another year with the 6s.
• danmg 8y ago
  No.
• Jgrubb 8y ago
  The day I was sold on ditching the headphone jack was actually last week when a giant wave surprised us and nearly washed my wife's (brand new) phone away at the beach. We took it back to the house, rinsed all the sand and salt water off under the tap and it never had a single issue.
  • cm2187 8y ago
    I believe Samsung phones are as much water-resistant while having preserved the headphone jack.
• clubm8 8y ago
  >Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_Law_of_Headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_Law_of_Headline...
• totallymike 8y ago
  While I’m definitely not a fan of losing the headphone jack, and don’t love not being able to use my headphones and charge my phone, I do see one positive side effect, and I wonder if Apple is doing it on purpose. You can now buy $20 bluetooth earbuds from Anker that are pretty decent. Apple saying “guess what, everybody: you love bluetooth” has forced the market to respond, and that whole price-down-quality-up thing is really starting to happen. This, of course, is of no use to people who depend on minimal latency. It will be a very long time, if ever, before bluetooth can match hardwired latency. What we really need next from Apple is for them to replace lightning with USB-C. I’d love to see the ability to choose to externalize the DAC+amplifier without buying either a lightning-only accessory or a camera adapter. Oh, and also be able to charge the phone while we’re at it.
  • snaky 8y ago
    > It will be a very long time, if ever, before bluetooth can match hardwired latency It happened long ago, with Apt-X, especially Apt-X HD and Apt-X LL. > The latency of the aptX-HD codec can be scaled to as low as 1 ms for 48 kHz sampled audio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX#aptX-HD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX#aptX-HD
    • oliveshell 8y ago
      apt-X is neat; it’s a bummer that, as it’s Qualcomm proprietary technology, only a smallish subset of wireless headsets support it. Not to mention Apple’s beef with Qualcomm means we’ll probably never see apt-X support in an iPhone.
      • snaky 8y ago
        > only a smallish subset of wireless headsets support it. That was true a couple of years ago. Now apt-x support is pretty common even in $20 niche. You can buy FiiO BTR3 for $50 (at Taobao), and it supports everything from apt-X (HD and LL) and LDAC (contributed to the Android Open Source Project by Sony) to Huawei HWA, works as USB-DAC too, and you can plug your favorite headphones into it.
      • 8y ago
• atomical 8y ago
  I use USB + Dragonfly. The obsession with the headphone jack is strange because the audio isn't very good.
• taylodl 8y ago
  Actually it worked out to the best for me. There’s two occasions where I use headphones: mowing the grass and working out. In both cases the headphone wire gets in the way and causes problems yet I was too cheap to buy a Bluetooth headphone set. By forcing me to buy Bluetooth headphones (I didn’t buy iBuds - I’m way too cheap for that!) Apple actually improved the quality of my life. Even if only a somewhat minor aspect.
  • _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    I agree about those two specific circumstances. But just because you need no headphone port to be motivated to buy bluetooth headphones isn't justification. I have a long public transport commute where I don't want to use bluetooth headphones for many reasons. When I'm mowing or working out, I can use my bluetooth headphones. I get the choice.
• joshvm 8y ago
  > Audiophiles probably aren’t too keen on being unable to listen to high-bitrate files. Ignoring issues of latency and connection robustness, is this a bandwidth limitation of Bluetooth or is it that the driver/codec support isn't there? Or is it audiophile hyperbole? There's no technical reason why you couldn't stream lossless digital audio to a pair of headphones, which might well have a better DAC chipset than the phone.
  • analog31 8y ago
    I suspect the issue is battery life in the headphones, due to hauling more data over the wireless link. Now, with headphones, you could put in a bigger battery and none's the wiser, except maybe the cost accountants. But it might be more tricky with earbuds.
  • zanny 8y ago
    Bluetooth radios generally operate at an order of magnitude lower power than wifi or cellular radios, especially in LE mode. Really the Bluetooth protocol is mostly just a ultra low power 802.11. It has more channels but they are thinner bands are only 1-2 Mbit (depending on classic or LE mode). That being said its not really a bandwidth limitation. One device can use multiple channels and thus you can easily get, say, the 6 Mbit that DVD quality PCM takes up. It is more that being so low power means bluetooth gets pummeled with a lot of inference. This isn't much of a problem if you are using one channel and alternating to avoid hot regions but the 2.4 band is super congested. Trying to drive constant 6+ Mbit through Bluetooth losslessly would take way more power than most Bluetooth devices are capable of or willing to spend to accomplish it.
    • superseeplus 8y ago
      There are codecs which make Bluetooth audio suck less, but they are a fragmented mess. The two really popular ones are AAC and AptX. iPhones support only AAC while Android phones might either not support either or support only AptX. Sony has its own proprietary codec LDAC which only works with their headphones. To make matters worse, not all headphones support both AptX and AAC.
• paul7986 8y ago
  Not for me as wireless headphones are quickly lost and cost more then wired which were less then 10 bucks. If you lose/lost them not a huge deal you'll can easily afford another pair.
• kaneua 8y ago
  I see another reason for Apple to exclude headphone jack from iPhone. Now third-party accessories makers can't bypass Apple's Lightning certification by using headphone jack for data transfer. For example, Square used headphone jack for their card reader.
  • reddit_clone 8y ago
    You may be on to something here. It might just have been a control/money issue. Not a technical issue at all :-( It may also be related to water proofing , eliminating another source of water risk.
    • kaneua 8y ago
      It's definitely not a waterproofing issue. They have waterproof lightning socket with exposed contacts, therefore they can make 3.5mm one. Apple's rivals — Samsung and Sony both have examples of waterproof phones with 3.5mm jack.
    • SSLy 8y ago
      >It may also be related to water proofing , eliminating another source of water risk. Some of the android flagships have both the jack and a IP68 rating.
    • _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
      No, my Samsung S5 for instance is waterproof and has a headphone port.
• protomyth 8y ago
  No, it is not a good idea. It actually is a massive pain in the butt for iPad labs where we issue headphones to keep the students from getting distracted with each other. Now, the new iPads are rumored to not include the headphone jack. That is just going to be wonderful buying a bunch of adapters that can get lost or stolen. Also, how the heck many things do I need a charger for now? Its bad enough they created a mouse that cannot be used during charging because of the poor placement of the charging port. If I was to go Bluetooth with the headphones, I need to buy a new cart with additional chargers for each headphone. Never mind loosing the damn things or their cost. From an accessibility point of view, I take it Apple's design team has never heard of Talking ATM[1]. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_ATM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_ATM
• mcculley 8y ago
  I hope to never use wired headphones ever again and I appreciate my phone being waterproof. I know that some people like wired headphones, but that is no reason to think Apple ditched that connector only for profit reasons.
• xellisx 8y ago
  Was ditching the slideout keyboard a good idea?
• crazygringo 8y ago
  I was totally on the hate train with how ridiculous it was to remove the headphone jack, and how unnecessary Bluetooth headphones were... ...but once I got my first pair of Bluetooth headphones and realized I never need to deal with tangled/frayed/broken/caught wires again, I'm never looking back. Charging turned out to be, surprisingly, a non-issue. I'm totally convinced Bluetooth headphones are the way forwards, and it's silly to have a jack for old tech. And for the small x% of the time or x% of the users where things like latency or line-out are needed... there's a dongle, it works perfectly, and it's fine. And if you need to charge at the same time, get a dongle that charges at the same time. That's the whole point of dongles -- a smaller/simpler device for 90-99% of people, at the cost of a tiny bit more expensive/complex solution for the remaining 1-10%. Feels like the right tradeoff to me.
  • chewz 8y ago
    I own really good bluetooth headphone and they work great. But at the same time I own really expensive jack phones which are tiny and I can keep them in my pocket. And I have always string of various 10$ headphones (Philips mostly) that I loose when jogging and destroy when biking. My point is - bluetooth getting better and more accessible - there is a place for compact and cheap headphones that do not require charging. And getting rid od headphone jack takes that away.
    • jonknee 8y ago
      > And getting rid od headphone jack takes that away. Why? You can use your wired headphones just fine...
      • tomc1985 8y ago
        With an adapter, which is what a lot of people don't want.
        • mrep 8y ago
          Not to mention those adapters break constantly and you can lose them. I'm on my fourth one and have been in a few situations where I wanted to use my headphones but low and behold, I don't have the adapter with me.
• wilsonnb3 8y ago
  Terrible article that, like most comments and articles about the headphone jack, completely ignores Lightning and USB C adapters. It’s much easier to make the case that removing the headphone jack is a huge money grab and inconvenience if you ignore the fact that a $9 dongle included with your phone lets you listen with any pair of headphones you want.
  • Eric_WVGG 8y ago
    Possibly more annoying is that he ignores the Lightning to 3.5mm cables that are available. Those nice expensive headphones all have replaceable cables, you don’t even need a dongle. https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Lightning-Connector/dp/B07CY1GMN9 https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Lightning-Connecto...
• jmull 8y ago
  I get why some people are annoyed, but it’s not like the 3.5mm jack was so great. If you forget the massive number of compatible headphones in existence, the 3.5mm jack isn’t that great. If we were designing the ideal audio interface today, it would not be the 3.5mm jack. For an audiophile experience, you’d better love the DAC built into your phone. You also probably need to live with whatever audio processing parameters the phone manufacturer chose because probably few, if any, are exposed. You’re largely shut out of control over audio processing details. Meanwhile, for mobile use you, need to thether your head to your phone and manage the cord. Not a great fit for mobile uses because you don’t want to move around too freely. It gets worse in the oft-mentioned scenario of charging while listening, because now you’re generally tethering your head to a wall or at least a battery pack. Not great. The 3.5mm jack also doesn’t have a decent protocol for on-device listening controls. There are workarounds so maybe you can play/pause or skip tracks, but then again maybe not. There are wide compatibility problems. Forget about anything advanced. It’s not like lightning connector is perfect, and neither is Bluetooth. I’m just pointing out that the 3.5mm jack isn’t a no-brainer by any stretch and it makes sense to look for something better, whether or no you think Apple or other OEMs succeeded.
  • nikofeyn 8y ago
    > For an audiophile experience, you’d better love the DAC built into your phone. that's why i use lg's v series of phones that include a high-end audio dac. > Meanwhile, for mobile use you, need to tether your head to your phone and manage the cord. Not a great fit for mobile uses because you don’t want to move around too freely. that's a false argument because the inclusion of an audio jack does not prevent the use of bluetooth. i use high-end headphones at work, home, and in certain travel situations like a plane and use bluetooth everywhere else like with my car and wireless bluetooth speakers. you said the 3.5mm jack would not be the interface designed today, but yet, you didn't come up with an alternative. the sound with a proper dac and headphones and a physical audio jack is incomparable to bluetooth and bluetooth headphones. and having the physical audio jack makes it much easier to do what i want with the audio when i want. whether it's attaching to a bose bluetooth speaker or outputting audio to sample on my op-1, it's the best of both worlds. the problem i have with apple is that they have never given a compelling and logical reason for removing the audio jack. my lg v35 has the audio jack plus a high-end audio dac and yet the design is every bit as sleek and compact as the iphone x phones, in fact, maybe even more so because the camera doesn't protrude. so all of this is pointless arguing simply because apple can't even answer the question of "why", as in why even remove it in the first place.
• err4nt 8y ago
  These jacks come from, not the 20th century, but the 19th century! It boggles my mind how something we've have had since the 1880s is suddenly obsolete. There's a plethora of devices in existence manufactured over a span of decades that all interchangeably work together, and we toss it now out for what? Do we really believe that all devices for the next 130 years will work on the same bluetooth protocol?
• brian-armstrong 8y ago
  It is painfully obvious that Apple removed the jack not because it was the right choice but because it lets them sell more accessories. Discussions about this choice should be framed in that perspective. It was a user hostile decision.
• cmiles74 8y ago
  The case made by the article strikes me as surprisingly clear: 50% of dollars spent on wireless headphones we're going to Apple and they wanted that percentage to grow larger. Forcing their customers to buy wireless headphones directly increased the amount of money Apple makes and has allowed them to dominate another product segment. This argument about the quality of the headphones seems very much beside the point. For those purchasing these newer smart phones, there is only one type of headphones that work. Clearly that is the one they will buy.
• microtherion 8y ago
  Author must have been heartbroken when cell phones started removing VGA ports.
• shmerl 8y ago
  It surely was a bad idea. A good idea is to ditch handsets which ditched a headphone jack.
• lawry 8y ago
  I do not have experience with the iPhone and Apple's Bluetooth headphones, but I've tried a bunch of 3rd party brands with moto g and oneplus smartphones. Sadly at home we only have 2.4Ghz for Wifi, which means it's absolutely less than ideal to stream something over wifi and listen to it on wireless headphones. I'm surprised this is not a problem for the iPhone, or I've never read anything about it yet.
• skywhopper 8y ago
  I agree... mostly. Till the end when the author portrays the lack of a headphone jack as a complete block to using TRS connectors. iPhones do come with working wired headphones and at least used to include a Lightning-TRS adapter (it can be had for $9 if not). Not ideal, no. Offensive, maybe. But it’s a ridiculous overstatement to say that this requires users to spend hundreds of dollars on Bluetooth replacements.
• sedachv 8y ago
  I put a mid-range Kenwood head unit in my road trip car last year. So far only one person has been able to figure out how to pair their phone to it over Bluetooth (the instruction manual is in the glove compartment; doesn't help). The Bluetooth audio skips. The audio jack requires no set-up, works 100% of the time, and never skips.
  • bootlooped 8y ago
    Maybe that is more the fault of the head unit than anything else. Several years ago I bought and installed an aftermarket stereo which could play mp3s from a usb stick. I think it was a Kenwood in the $150 - $200 range. I recall being stunned by how horrible and behind-the-times the UI and menus were. I thought "all they had to do was copy the iPod menu layout" (or any other decent mp3 player). That and other experiences with car infotainment systems have lead me to believe that any electronics that go in a car are at least 5 years behind their non-automobile equivalents.
  • zwkrt 8y ago
    This move to Bluetooth very much seems like planned obsolescence. In sure in a few years all the issues people have with Bluetooth will be "solved" by a whole incompatible spec. The only problem with the 3.5m jack is that it's too cheap, unobtrusive, and reliable. You can't brand it, market it, or upsell it.
• justaaron 8y ago
  no
• bnastic 8y ago
  It’s a big red herring when someone tells you “I have high end headphones and need hp output”, or “I record my guitar into iPhone and need a jack”. - if you are really an audiophile you will have at least a Dragonfly or similar feeding your expensive cans off of USB. You would not use iPhone’s (previous) tiny dac/amp. Also note that iPads still have a builtin DAC/amp and that they are, in fact, really really good. - Same for music making on iPhone. You will have one of many audio interfaces for iOS. I mean, come on, you are not recording guitars into your pc over a builtin audio input, surely? I don’t believe this whole “cornering the market” argument. I do believe removing unnecessary hardware and making way for bigger battery/thinner phones or whatever other benefit may come out of it.
• konart 8y ago
  I'm still waiting for a decent pair of bt earplugs that wouldn't cost me a fortune. Still have to use Sony SBH50 + Marshall Mode EQ as a half-way solution. Wired wirelessness.
• woolvalley 8y ago
  I like bluetooth headphones, but even the airpods have trouble connecting to my iphone at times, and UI to connect the headphones is a complicated 5+ tap process. And if they aren't airpods, then I have to go into the settings app specifically and add 3 more taps for even more annoyance. And when I tap to connect a specific bluetooth headphone, it may or may not connect. If it doesn't, its an even more annoying process of turning bluetooth on and off and the headphones on and off to get a connection. It's this part of bluetooth alone that is the most annoying part of them. On top of apple not giving a good dedicated UI to managing your bluetooth headphones. Burying it 3-5 screens deep is not a good user experience. Too bad android is a security and privacy mess.
• screye 8y ago
  Not for me. (Addressing the general industry trend) The way I see it, taking a feature away needs to be justified with some proportional advantage. The parts themselves are pretty cheap, so the only argument against the port is space. Apple did not use the space for anything useful (same battery , same features , more expensive). I have heard water proofing as an argument, but many manufacturers can do both & the jack is more useful than water proofing to me. As I see it, manufacturers took a away a relatively useful feature for nothing in return. The decision was very much guided by greed, and that very much irks me.
• qwerty456127 8y ago
  Absolutely no. The idea of introducing one universal connector standard itself sounds reasonable but it still is a way ahead of time. Nothing should be "ditched" before the new standard and its ecosystem matures (do you remember for how long did USB co-exist with COM&LPT and for how long did ISA slots co-exist with PCI? - that was good!). Also one port is not enough, I want to connect my wired headphones and a power bank to my cellphone at the same time without using any additional dongles! And at last but not at least there are things tat are so good (with simplicity of their technology nature contributing to this) even while being a very old invention that inventing reasons to ditch them is either hypocrisy (aren't big corporations pushing digital audio transfer technologies just to facilitate vendor lock-ins and DRMs?) or onanism. Do we really need to reinvent a wheel just because it is not patented?
• rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  I’m using an iphone 8 for the last 9 months. Not missing the jack at all.
  • rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    Thanks for downvotes. Explain.
    • rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      Oh yeah, someone got really upset now. Explain instead of clicking this stupid downvote button.
• CosmicShadow 8y ago
  No.
• 8bitsrule 8y ago
  It's even dumber than when Apple ditched the serial port, dooming a whole generation of fine hardware to obsolescence. Just another marketing win, engineering loss.
• ryandrake 8y ago
  It was a great idea because the removal of the headphone jack serves a lightning rod for everything anti-Apple, and drowns out other, more serious and valid issues with their HW and SW quality. There are a lot of real problems with their products to complain about, but all those valid complaints are drowned out by the rage over the stupid headphone jack. It's been two years, and people still can't get over it, and the press can't stop mentioning it. Great for Apple, because that's the only problem that gets air time.
• tomcooks 8y ago
  Most outdoor people (7+ days charging on solar or limited electrical outlet access) hate the idea of having to charge an extra device, when they could use a pair of cheap headphones. Hard pass for me too, I'll stick to my cheap, outdated tech.
• pasbesoin 8y ago
  With the universal disappearance of the jack, I can't help thinking that there are behind-the-scenes pressures and incentives driving it. As in television (and so, movies on television), all analog links in the chain of delivery are being driven out. Even if you agree with that (and I don't), this means that simultaneously, any and all other use cases for these analog channels are simply fucked. Too bad, screw you. Big entertainment, and its big dollars, monopolizing the platform for its own benefit. I don't know this. I just can't help suspecting it -- not just out of thin air, though, but rather based upon what I've read about how these industries work and advocate, in general and in other specific cases.
• chairmanmow 8y ago
  I think so. 3.5mm wasn't always a standard, it used to be 1/4". 3.5mm is a consumer standard, replacing it with Bluetooth makes more sense. I say this as someone who does Pro Audio stuff, I just don't use bluetooth for that. I've usually had to hook up a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter for some headphones anyways. I have a 48 channel patch bay everything's wired into. Why would I complain about having to use a dongle to get non-latent audio for pro-purposes on my Phone seems a little absurd given the way most other pro-equipment behaves. And there's a dongle if people really care, and it came for free with my phone. I'd rather use bluetooth headphones anyways for most stuff, for convenience. If you need pro-gear, there's usually a pro-option. Sometimes form factors change and you need to swap out some of your gear, it happens. Anyways, 3.5mm wasn't ever the 'pro' standard. It's a consumer level adaptation, and so is Bluetooth. I have no problem with it.