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The iPhone SE was the best phone Apple ever made, and now it’s dead

391 points by coloneltcb 8y ago

nickhalfasleep 8y ago
What I like about the SE is the small form factor, supported by a vendor who I know will keep providing OS / Security updates. All the status and 2FA applications I need running on a supported platform.
hownottowrite 8y ago
I love my SE. The form factor is perfect for me. I'd gladly buy a "XS-SE" to get the camera upgrade. The rest? Not so much. RIP
Exuma 8y ago
iPhone SE inferior to iPhone X in practically every way
- laktak 8y ago
  except in size
  - mattnewton 8y ago
    And headphone jack. And price.
- pauljaworski 8y ago
  Internals? Duh. It came out years earlier. Design? Nah. Some of us like a phone that fits comfortably in our hand and pocket, and doesn't look like every other phone out there.
  - Exuma 8y ago
    The iPhone X fits perfect in my hand. I upgrade from iPhone 6 and didn't notice any difference in size. Actually use it first. When I have to use a button to open a phone now it feels like using a fax machine. It's so incredibly sluggish, slow and clunky. And, when I look at an iPhone with huge borders on the edge (iPhone X goes right to the edge) it gives me claustrophobic anxiety because it's so small. People are so afraid of change. Aside from the price, there's really no reason not to upgrade.
    - greatquux 8y ago
      Well that's just like your opinion man. Seriously I love the SE too. And I was coming from large screen Android world to it as my first iOS device. Maybe they'll revive it by the time mine is ready to die...
- pazimzadeh 8y ago
  It's less likely to break, easier to reach all buttons on the screen, can stand up without a stand, and has better battery life.
- kolbe 8y ago
  I got my SE for $100. What's the going rate for a new X?
- dang 8y ago
  Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
  - Exuma 8y ago
    The comment of the article is literally "best iphone apple ever made"
dpeck 8y ago
I don’t know about best, but I do love the form factor and wish they had refreshed it. I’ll end up getting an Xs but I’ll miss having a phone comfortably in my pocket. I guess the emerging market play didn’t work out? Or perhaps the Chinese market got to where large portions could afford the oversized screens sooner than expected?
laktak 8y ago
There was also an article & discussion in wired https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855
wlesieutre 8y ago
Compared to the iPhone XS, the iPhone SE: - Costs $650 less - Does everything I need it to - Does it one-handed I'm sure the new camera and OLED screen and everything are very nice but I just don't care enough to spend 3x as much money on fancy phone with a huge screen when I'm already trying to stare at my phone less, not more. Maybe the goal is to make phones so uncomfortable to use that you won't want to take them out of your pocket.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  And they were talking about wanting to make devices last longer to use less materials and reduce waste! The solution to that is apparently: - Use more materials to make larger phones - Make the phone more difficult to grip securely - Wrap glass around the edges so it can always land on glass no matter how you drop it - Move control center so far away that you have to let go of the phone to reach it iPhone SE 2 please.
  - deltron3030 8y ago
    The Watch might be the SEs spiritual successor, or they let the small form factor (pocket watch) die to sell more wrist watches..
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      Great comment. 2 thoughts: web browsing is a bit grim and the need for using 2 hands seems irritating, especially as you’ll be scrolling a lot on a small screen.
      - cimmanom 8y ago
        Take off the band and use it as a phone? We could all put them on chains again instead and walk around like 19thC gents with their chained pocket watches?
        Serow225 8y ago
RodgerTheGreat 8y ago
I have an SE, and I like it. The size is nice, I like that it lays flat, I like that it has a headphone jack. Newer models don't have compelling features my SE lacks, and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and will likely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out. I have an 11" Macbook Air, and I love it. The size and weight is nice, the keyboard is great, the touchpad is precise, I love that it has MagSafe, and I consider the ability to plug in DisplayPort monitors and my USB-A devices a must-have. Newer laptop models don't have compelling features my Air lacks, and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and will definitely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out. It's frustrating when a company makes products that suit your needs well, and then changes its mind. I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore.
- fredleblanc 8y ago
  > I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore. I say this more and more each day. I'm in the same boat with the SE, and it's also the same with the MacBook Pros for me. I bought a refurbished MacBook Pro last October, the one from 2015, the last one with a great keyboard. It seems that April 2016 was the peak of where Apple and I aligned.
- happertiger 8y ago
  I had a 13 inch MacBook Pro 2016. Sold it. Went back to using my 2013 MacBook Pro. I have an iPhone 7 and I miss my headphone jack every day. The best phone I ever owned was the se. Apple is happily going off in a nonsense direction where their products are less and less useful because they are less complete and therefore less “self reliant” as devices. See that’s what people don’t articulate. It’s not that the design changes are bad. Some are great. It’s that the balance of great design and great utility is what made apple impossible to beat as a phone and a laptop, and then there was the fact that they were seamlessly integrated (something apple has still failed to fully exploit — their stuff could be mind blowing). This is what made the brand great, and I feel like people miss that part of the argument. When you bought a 2013 MacBook Pro, you didn’t need to buy accessories because it had it all - hdmi, usb, etc. - and it was useful without any additional accessories and met or exceeded my needs in almost all circumstances. I didn’t need a dongle to present and I didn’t need a cable adapter to charge my phone. When I packed for a conference I would grab my laptop, a power supply (that I could trip over in hotel rooms while working with no worries and that neatly wrapped up), and an hdmi to dvi adapter in case the projector failed, but that was it. Now I feel like Apple has externalized all of that utility in an effort to boost margins or go thin, and it’s basically made the devices reliant on a host of adapters, both for phones and laptops (and actually the 2013 Mac pro was the same problem). Apple needs to understand what made them great was that they weren’t the ultimate steak knife, they were the ultimate survival knife, and get back to building the most useful, thought out and self-contained devices like they used to. They had a sweet spot, but we’re going back to the Apple cube across all product lines again, and nobody wants that. The pro computer failure and the move away from nerd needs to slab of glass has lost balance and is heading into design over substance. The pendulum needs some rebalancing.
MBCook 8y ago
As a developer the SE is a pain because the screen is so much smaller (especially horizontally) than every other model. Things that fit on other iPhones are big issues on the SE. This will make life easier in the long run. And I’m guessing this is true for Apple too. But I get why people loved them. I like the 6 screen size and don’t want to go back, but the SE feels ‘right’ somehow.
- ianai 8y ago
  There are ways they could fit a higher resolution and screen into that form factor. They’re just not interested in breaking their notch trend.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    If you increased the effective resolution the touch targets would get very hard to use. I don’t think the notch is a factor in this. Apple knows how many they sell. I’m guessing their sales metrics show it’s just a tiny tiny portion of sales. The fact it’s no longer similar to other phones they’re still selling means the economy of scale isn’t there anymore.
  - Bud 8y ago
    Every part of this is wrong. But the "notch trend" bit is hilarious. The idea that the notch is a "trend" Apple started on purpose, rather than a design element that was necessitated by making a full-screen phone that still needs to have 9 sensors and devices pointing forwards is laughable enough, but the idea that Apple would refuse to implement another design because of the "notch trend" is full-on goofy. Apple doesn't think or work that way.
- psychedictic 8y ago
  SE is great for developers, since it sets a reasonable minimum bar for screen resolution.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    In my experience, it’s TOO minimum relative to the 6, 6+, and X.
carlosrg 8y ago
Seems like I'm going to use my SE for a long time. I would have considered upgrading to a SE 2 though.
ianai 8y ago
I, for one, can never purchase a device that has to take a photo every time I lift it. That’s literally illegal where I’d use it 95% of the time. I also can’t be the only person who doesn’t get much utility out of the selfie cam. But I definitely like having a phone that fits comfortably in my pocket with my wallet - and that I can use one handed. Couldn’t they ditch the notch by having the speaker on the edge of the device? I have no problem hearing the speaker with my phone pulled away from my ear.
- wufufufu 8y ago
  You can disable Face ID... But I'm sure they'll re-introduce a revolutionary new fingerprint scanner soon enough.
  - ianai 8y ago
    You can? News to me! Thank you.
    - satysin 8y ago
      Just don't set it up. You can select the option to skip/setup later and just never do it. Of course you are then limited to using a PIN as there is no other biometric option on the X/Xs sadly.
  - Yetanfou 8y ago
    That has already been done by Synaptics and is used in the Xiaomi Mi 8 [1]. Seeing that Xiaomi copied most of the design from the iPhone X - notch and all, unfortunately - I guess Apple should get a pass when they copy the under-screen finger print sensor from Xiaomi. [1] https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-mi8-news/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-mi8-news/
    - wufufufu 8y ago
      That's what I was referring to. It'd be a great feature. Apple would just nail the design and execution, give it a trademark name, and go to town with it.
kolbe 8y ago
The only reason I'm not buying a second one right now to keep as a backup is that the SE's small screen eventually will not be worth supporting by my favorite apps. My guess is by this time next year, I'll need a new phone just to be able to use them. I find it hard to believe us small phone people will be taken care of by Apple ever again.
beaner 8y ago
I feel this way about the Nexus 6p, another beautiful phone that will never be back. These phones had a kind of identity that modern ones don't. Nowadays they're all the same.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  I got a Nokia 6.1 (new model) and it's absurdly good for the money and I truly love the design. The black and copper looks premium against my GF's iPhone 8, It's easy to hold, it's milled out of aluminium and strongly built, it's smooth, fast (Android One is great). And it cost a fifth of what an iPhoneX costs here. I even liked their cheeky piss take of the Johnny Ive videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk
  - robocat 8y ago
    Seconded - we bought a Nokia 7+ for work for Android 9 beta testing (cheapest phone that gets beta updates). Nice hardware and everyone in the office likes how it looks - I'm using it as my everyday phone. iPhone SE topic: are there any manufacturers that take older iPhone model guts and repackage them with different bodies and screens? I would love to use an iPhone (Google doesn't do privacy) but I can't justify spending 2 to 3 times the price on something I regularly break or lose... (I generally avoid fragile expensive utility items).
    - noir_lord 8y ago
      Nokia are killing it, one of the reasons I bought this was because android one makes testing on latest chrome/OS a lot simpler. I use an iPad mini for safari testing because iPhones are so damn expensive, I can at least borrow my GF's in a pinch.
petercooper 8y ago
My wife is really annoyed at the death of the SE. It's the biggest phone she can hold and use in a single hand while holding stuff in the other, dealing with kids, etc. As the screen is getting water damaged and it's generally becoming flaky with age, she might have to jump ship to Android but she really doesn't want to.
- macintux 8y ago
  It sounds like there aren't any small Android phones either, at least not high quality ones. I sympathize: I actually prefer the original 3.5" screen iPhone. Even the 4" screen seemed a bit too tall for comfort. I finally decided if I was going to need two hands periodically anyway, I might as well bite the bullet and go with a large phone.
  - petercooper 8y ago
    She had a Sony Xperia briefly between the iPhone 5 and the SE which was pretty small. The current smallest Xperias (XA1 and XZ2 Compact) are now rocking 5" screens though, so only half an inch smaller than the X/XS.
  - bob_theslob646 8y ago
    Samsung Galaxy S6 may be your best bet.
  - another-cuppa 8y ago
    The Sony Xperia Z3 Compact was a great phone. But unfortunately it had a design flaw that meant the screen would become unglued and it's very hard to repair. I "upgraded" to the X Compact but it's complete garbage in comparison. So many things wrong with it. I really don't want a big phone, though.
- cimmanom 8y ago
  There are still a few third parties selling them, and (non-factory) refurbs all over the place. Might want to grab one up now while there’s still stock.
jplayer01 8y ago
I love my SE. I'll probably get an over-sized Android in the future just for web browsing and watching movies, but I'll keep my SE until it breaks for everything else where some measure of security is important (auth keys, emails, communication, etc.), and I'll probably replace it with another SE when it does.
Jtsummers 8y ago
The iPhone XS has a total 6.3" diagonal, with 5.8" display. The SE has a total 5.4" diagonal. If you gave it an edge-to-edge display, you could get a 5" diagonal screen on it, which is bigger than the iPhone 7 screen size (4.7" display, total diagonal is 6.05"). So a maxed out screen size on an SE body would give you a better screen than the 7, but in a smaller phone. How is this not an obvious direction? Lag the other hardware by 1-2 years to keep costs down a bit and avoid directly competing against the XS. I'd still buy it.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  With the Touch ID that isn’t really a button but is, and the headphone jack. With current generation internals I’d pay more for that than the current phones.
- cimmanom 8y ago
  Sadly most of us would not be able to reach the top of the screen one-handed on a phone that size. Even on an iPhone 4 form factor it’d be a stretch for those of us without enormous hands.
cjensen 8y ago
I love the SE because of the form factor. Would have bought the next one. But I have to imagine a lot of SE buyers were doing so based on price rather than because it has an awesome form factor. Apple is now serving the cheap side of the market with the 7, which will probably make the cheap buyers a lot happier than the SE.
- spydum 8y ago
  I moved from SE to 7.. totally not worth it. I would have paid more for the SE form factor.
  - dijit 8y ago
    As would I. But how can Apple distinguish between value buyers and form-factor buyers?
    - tspike 8y ago
      By making a high end small phone?
      - abraham_lincoln 8y ago
        I would pay $800 for a modernized SE (but keep the 3.5mm jack, I am giving you $800!!!).
- mirceal 8y ago
  You would probably be wrong. I had a 5S before and got the SE. Really like the form factor and to me this is peak Iphone. Everything after this is a downhill ride for me.
- jplayer01 8y ago
  I had a 6S work phone for half a year, then decided to try an SE for a few weeks (and send it back if I liked the 6S better). So I had both at the same time. SE won hands down.
DanTheManPR 8y ago
I bought an iPhone SE last night. The smartphone industry's decision making in the last few years has been... bizarre. I've been an Android user up to this point because I appreciated the vast feature set, open architecture and diversity of hardware that I could find. That initially meant settling for a lot of the quirks and general cheapness of early Android phones - Apple had them all so thoroughly beat on polish. With the advent of really good high-end phones from Samsung and others, and the great advancements in Android's software, it seemed to me that we were getting to the point that there was no particular reason why anyone should prefer an Apple smartphone over any of the other high-end options. The phablet craze and the ridiculous explosion in screen size should have tipped me off that something was very wrong with the industry. It didn't make sense to me that literally no-one would offer a phone that was small enough for one-handed use. And then they started eliminating the headphone jacks. And then... the notch. Multi-billion dollar development teams started chasing each other down degenerate design paths. The modern smartphone is this weird art project that's uncomfortable to interact with, and doesn't have a lot of basic features I use. Swappable battery? Expansion slot for microsd? Rare, and getting rarer. Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going to live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one. I won't put the iPhone SE on a pedestal. It's older hardware, and you're definitely sacrificing some battery life and camera quality (two of the few positives of these modern phablets). But I can reach across the whole screen with my thumb, and I can listen with any set of headphones I want, and it's really very pleasant to use - after only half a day of use, it has just seamlessly disappeared into my life. Exactly as it should.
- mlcdf 8y ago
  Why not go with the Xperia XZ1 Compact then? Because of this? -> > Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going to live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one. I'm asking because I'm torn between Xperia XZ1 Compact and the iPhone SE... edit: forgot the "Compact" part...
krisleipus 8y ago
I guess Apple strategy for this is: if you need secondary device for situations where it is uncomfortable to use your primary big screen iPhone - buy Apple Watch cellular, if you just want cheap entry to iOS - there is older gen phones (iPhone 7 for this year). Probably those who just want a small primary phone is a niche (and not very profitable) market.
Razengan 8y ago
I've used every iPhone since the 5, including the SE, and I think the X is the best phone they've ever made, so much that I don't plan on upgrading until next year's refresh.
- Razengan 8y ago
  EDIT: I might hold out until they have a 3D-mapping camera system. Can't think of anything else I might want in a phone in the near future.
fn 8y ago
Definitely sucky, I was waiting for and would have upgraded to an SE2 in a heartbeat. It's the perfect size and I really don't understand why folks no longer want phones that can be used in one hand or fits into a pocket.
- rooam-dev 8y ago
  For me, it would be video/movie watching. On 5.5in is much nicer.
- bennyp101 8y ago
  I don't think it's a case of "folks no longer want phones that can be used in one hand or fits into a pocket" I think it's more a case of the companies saying "what you want is a bigger, shiny screen so you can use it like a computer, nobody has small phones anymore, don't be left out" They have gone from a useful accessory, to a status/fashion symbol where bigger and faster is always better* * For a given value of better (Obviously some people actually do want bigger screens because they need it for things, but I would say they are in the minority)
  - pwagland 8y ago
    I'm not convinced that it's the minority that want it though. It probably _is_ the minority that _need_ it. But if I look around, I see a bunch of crappy big screens around, because "bigger is better" right? And sometimes, those bigger screens really are crappy. Some of them are decent quality, but they tend to also cost a packet, just like the iPhone, but not as crazy expensive as an iPhone. Still there are a lot of big crappy screens to be found around.
- CharlesW 8y ago
  The iPhone XS is 13mm wider. You can absolutely use it one-handed, and can enable Reachability[1] to make one-handed use easier. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/20/iphone-x-how-to-enable-reachability-improve-control-center/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/20/iphone-x-how-to-enable-reacha...
  - 8y ago
michaelchisari 8y ago
I was really looking forward to getting the SE 2 now that my iPhone 8 contract is up. :/
peterburkimsher 8y ago
I'm still using an iPhone 4S 64GB with a Third Rail removable battery case. Blog posts like this make it clear that there's a market for small-screen phones, even though none of the usual companies are building them. I think it's time to give up hope for Apple, and build a new ecosystem. Old iPods are very hackable [1]. There are suppliers making replacement backplates, click wheels, extended capacity batteries, and SD card adaptors. There's plenty of room for a Raspberry Pi Zero in the back, although I use a PQI Air Card. It can't run touchscreen apps though, which rules out maps/cameras/typing/many other apps. Is there a touchscreen that can fit inside 103.5 x 61.8 mm? That's the part I would need to build my own iPod successor. [1] https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-classic-5g-5-5g-6g-6-5g-7g-ssd-mod-thread.566780/page-642 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-classic-...
mariodiana 8y ago
Honestly, in some ways I liked the iPhone 4/4s even better. It had the best hand feel of all of Apple's phones. But, when I upgraded to a 5, I did appreciate more screen. I have an SE now, and I am totally dejected about these big phones. I don't live on my phone (like the rest of the world seems to). I want something that fits unobtrusively in my pocket and that can be easily manipulated with one hand. Fie on Apple!
- zoltaan 8y ago
  Agreed about the 4s. I expected having the same form factors with less borders for a bigger screen. There was quite a potential in that (edge to edge screen might been exciting the coolness chasers as well). Shame did not happen.
- abraham_lincoln 8y ago
  Also, agree. I was playing with my 4S yesterday. I like its heft and size. I would love to have a replacement board for it to run whatever.
dougmwne 8y ago
Goodbye SE, you will be missed. You had every feature a person could need. Your tiny screen kept the addictive app mania at bay. You fit in every pocket. You survived a drop a week for 2 years. You could not survive apple's quest for more profit margin.
evv 8y ago
This is a well written article, but I can't help but wonder.. was TechCrunch inspired by my response yesterday to their XR article? The thought makes me chuckle. https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904 https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904 "The people’s iPhone is still the SE.. made for human-sized hands, includes TouchID, headphone jack, is reasonably priced, and is the lightest phone they’ve ever shipped..."
aphextron 8y ago
There's just no room in Apples lineup for loved products with small sales numbers. Case in point: the 17" Macbook Pro. I have large hands, large fingers, and enjoy having a massive display on my laptop, and it was perfect for me. I would love nothing more than for Apple to make a true desktop replacement laptop. However it seems their only interest anymore is in appeasing the mass market of ultra slim portable devices which most people want. You simply cannot buy a Macbook quality 17" laptop in 2018 and that's insane. I really think there's a market opening here for someone to fill that niche.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  Wasn’t the keyboard the same size as on the smaller laptops, just with acres on each side?
  - spullara 8y ago
    Yes. All sizes, even 11" air, had the same keyboard. The touch pad might have been bigger.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      No, the 11” Air had a smaller keyboard: just look at the function keys on it.
      - Bud 8y ago
        The 11" Air keyboard is the same width, but not quite as deep.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    Keyboard is the same but you have a lot more space to stretch out and rest your palms for larger hands. I’m cramped in 15” and 13” is totally unusable.
- lostgame 8y ago
  Every film director in the world groaned in unison when they heard the 17" was discontinued. I wish the newest version didn't have such awfully outdated specs, I'd love a 17" MacBook Pro again.
roymurdock 8y ago
Macbook Pro Mid 2012 / iPhone SE user here (just bought a 2nd 128gb SE last month) Apple has lost my business for upgrades with their new product direction in both laptops and phones But we are not their target market anymore - it's the people/enterprises that can splash out $1-2k every year for the latest pic taking and video watching tech And there are enough people out there to keep the company's revenues booming and the market happy Would love to see someone focus on our slice of the market again, I just don't know if it can be done in a profitable way at this point
sspencer 8y ago
I bought an iPhone SE when it came out. It's the perfect phone in my opinion. I am fully prepared to use it until it falls apart and it's so well built I think it may take a while. Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big and they deleted features I want while adding nothing useful to me. I wasn't expecting an SE2 so I wasn't disappointed when it failed to appear. This iPhone and my MacBook Pro 2015 are the last Apple products I'll expect I'll ever own. Not out of spite but because they no longer make things I need, or even want.
- freehunter 8y ago
  See, I'm the opposite, but I know exactly where you're coming from. I stayed away from the iPhone until they started increasing the screen size, because the original was waay too small for my tastes. But when it came time to get a work phone, I purposefully chose the 5S and then later the SE because I was already carrying a huge phone. I didn't need to carry two. I still feel the SE is a bit too small to be my main phone, but I do wish they kept making a phone that small. I know my sister prefers it, I prefer it for my second phone, a lot of people liked it. Plus the 5S/SE industrial design is 10x better than any phone that came before or after. It's just beautiful, it's easy to hold, it's durable. It's just a great small phone, even if I think it's too small for my tastes.
- CharlesW 8y ago
  > Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big… The iPhone XS itself is 13mm wider than the S. As someone who uses an iPhone 7 Plus with one hand, I'm surprised that 13mm would make a difference. I'd be curious to hear what you thought after using one for a week.
  - MapleWalnut 8y ago
    It's the screen size that matters. I can reach the top corners of a iPhone5-sized phone with ease. iPhone6-sized phones require me to strain or give up and use the reachability feature. I don't think I'm alone in this.
  - Bud 8y ago
tambourine_man 8y ago
Having lived all my life through a period where it was safe to assume that eletronic devices would only get better, it hasn't been easy to adapt to this new trend. We'll make it thinner, regardless of optical limitations, just leave a camera bump. We want edge to edge display, but need a camera on the front and can't quite put it under it yet: behold the notch. We will assume Gordon Gekko was ahead of its time and simply have everyone use preposterously large phones.
samch93 8y ago
I am a happy owner of an SE and I am afraid of the moment it breaks down. Can anyone recommend an alternative compact phone with similar build quality and the same features in terms of software and hardware?
ConcernedCoder 8y ago
My 6s might as well be dead, with each os update it runs slower and slower... now just scrolling the screen lags to a level that makes it mostly unusable... thanks Apple.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Install iOS 12 when it comes out in three days?
- wvenable 8y ago
  This is the downside to phones that get frequent updates. My iPhone 5 got a ridiculous number of updates (2-3 major versions) over it's life but got worse with each one. I have a Samsung S tablet that got one major update (installed literally the day I bought it) but is exactly as same in terms of performance and utility as the day I got it. It's still perfect. Probably has some terrible security flaws, though.
- Bud 8y ago
  Wipe your device, install iOS 12, and then restore your data. I guarantee you your 6S will run better than new.
  - mmagin 8y ago
    How has apple managed to make iOS as bad as Windows 95?
- matwood 8y ago
  Get the battery checked and replaced if needed. Then install iOS 12 in a few days.
  - ConcernedCoder 8y ago
    1. Battery was replaced 3 months ago 2. I run it in "low power mode" already, otherwise it's a brick. 3. Battery Health (Beta) reports: - Maximum Capacity 100% - Peak Performance Capability Your battery is currently supporting normal peak performance I can touch the screen and it acts as though nothing is happening...swipes, taps, etc... then seconds later it will run through all the things I've been trying to do all at once... pretty much unusable at this point.
webkike 8y ago
I just preorded a new iPhone XS to replace my pixel, but I think I have to agree. The iPhone 5s was the first iPhone I ever bought and the experience was simply magical. The phone itself was so beautiful, and the operating system just gave it this unbeatable cohesion. I hope the iPhone XS can replicate at least some of that feeling, and I'm willing to let it. But I'm also skeptical of that.
squozzer 8y ago
Damn. The SE is my fave too. BUT, I only owned a 4s prior. So my experience is rather limited. My GF has a 5c, and the SE is lighter than a 5c. The 6 and later versions were too big, for bigger screen needs I have an iPad mini. Which also seems on a glide path to obsolescence. If we were limited to one Apple mobile device per person by decree, then maybe the bigger iPhone would make sense. Understanding that Apple wants to avoid hyper-customization a la IBM PS/2 AND wants to maintain an air of avant-garde, some decent products have to be sacrificed. A poster made a comment about working with the SE's limitations when designing apps for the SE. Some apps (such as Amazon) looked very crowded on my SE. Another (Manhattan Metal Prices) looks great Maybe the SE died because it forced unwanted simplicity on app devs.
alexnewman 8y ago
Totally dropping apple, when they drop SE
taylodl 8y ago
Yeah. I like my SE and I'll keep it as long as I can (which will probably be for another year before I start running out of storage) but if I were in the market for a new iPhone today I'd go with the 8. It's not that much larger than the SE, it's certainly a lot cheaper than anything in the X series and it has wireless charging, not to mention a home button. Now that Apple has eliminated the SE the 8 is the best phone they're making.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
joelrunyon 8y ago
Why do people keep making phones that are closer to tablets? I've had an iPhone for 8+ years and starting to look at other more reasonably sized options.
duncans 8y ago
Bear in mind the iPhone SE was not announced/released alongside the flagship iPhones in a September event, but in more low-key fashion 6 months later. There's still a chance something might come to fill the gap. They wouldn't want it to distract or cannibalise sales of their flagship models.
- raviojha 8y ago
  I would very much like to believe this, however, had there been plans for SE 2, they'd have let SE on sale until SE 2 was out. I wish I'm wrong and they release SE 2 after reaching their margin profits with X series.
- lostgame 8y ago
  This deserves more upvotes. I feel like it's an important note.
- pentae 8y ago
  I believe the solution to the SE is the XR model. Apple thinks it's the phone for the "Every Man" except the every man doesn't have a 6 figure tech salary and thinks it's about $250 too greedy.
kanishkdudeja 8y ago
Apple can no longer make a phone as good as the iPhone SE. It feels like pure magic and I believe that magic died with Steve Jobs.
- jonknee 8y ago
  To each their own, I vastly prefer the X line.
osrec 8y ago
The little cross in the corner of tech crunch articles is very annoying, especially since it redirects you to some clunky, slow loading news aggregation page. Also the page redirects you as you scroll past the end of the article. If you scroll down, then back up, the article is no longer there! Absolutely bizarre and aggravating UI/UX...
droidist2 8y ago
Do we know for sure it's dead? Could there be a smaller form factor next year? It was about 3 years between when the 5S and SE were released. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models
bigwheeler 8y ago
The SE or it’s equivalent will be back. It’s going to be smaller than the XS, with an edge to edge display, no home button, and no headphone jack. I think it’ll be in the next 6 months, but if not, within 12 for sure. It just makes sense. The only reason we didn’t get one this week is to keep the “new” lineup simple.
novaRom 8y ago
The problem with Apple is that their iOS products older than 2-3 years are becoming quickly unusable. I have some old iPads and I cannot install anything necessary like Firefox because their iOS is too old and there is no update available (happens with iPad mini). Or battery life deteriorates much quicker than in a typical Android phone (happens with iPhone 6). Or because next software update had made device totally unusable (that happened to iPad 1 which become literally unusable due to apps/browser crashes).
- graeme 8y ago
  Ios 12 is a huge improvement over 11. Older devices actually run faster. Am on the beta, works great.
- zoom6628 8y ago
  While everyone is moaning the demise of the SE do note that iOS12 supports the SE and the 5S. My guess is Apple is doing this to hold onto the small form factor customers long enough to make the final decision on small form factor product.
whitepoplar 8y ago
The problem with smartphones today is that it hurts to hold them in the hand. The SE is the best phone Apple ever made, but man do I wish Apple brought back the rounded-back form factor of the 3G/3GS. Someone mentioned this in another thread, but I think there's a huge market for an iPhone "Nano," something between an XS and Apple Watch in size, but that has 85% of the functionality of the XS. No gimmicks, no bullshit, just a beautifully made "utility" device.
graeme 8y ago
I hope they make another. I'm on the 8. The X's screen is too large for me to use comfortably. I would happily buy an SE2 and use that. Wouldn't mind a higher price either if it had specs to match the larger ones. I just want to be able to use a phone one handed and not be too distracted by it.
neuralRiot 8y ago
The iphone 4,5, SE looks like made by Porsche design which i love.
zaroth 8y ago
My kids have SEs, and I have an X. I appreciate the X oh so much in comparison. I absolutely love swiping up instead of clicking a home button. I delight in FaceID which works flawlessly even as I’ve lost 20 pounds and the shape of my face has changed fairly significantly over the last year. Most of all, I can actually type on the X, whereas when I go back to the kids’ SEs I can’t figure out how I ever got anything done on that thing at all. Headphone jack? Where we’re going, we don’t need jacks. The one and only downside of the X is that it must, must be in a case. I never put my iPhones in cases and never managed to crack one. The X with its all glass back, super slim profile, and curved edges is just too damn slippery. The bonus of putting the $1,000+ device in a case is that the camera bump disappears and the thickness ends up just about right for me. Wireless charging has been great, especially once I got one that held the phone raised up instead of flat (easier to position on just one axis) and rated for 10W. The size of the X I feel is so much better than the SE and still perfectly usable one handed. I really really don’t miss the home button. I find it so damn clunky on the SE now after getting to live without it on the X, and particularly double clicking home (versus the swipe up and to the right on the X) is just tedious. I assume the extra waterproofing you get without the home button has literally saved my device several times by now. I had an iPhone 4. And 5. And 5s. It’s a beautiful device. But it’s by no means an insurmountable pinnacle of design. I honestly haven’t look that closely at the new lineup, but I’m just not currently in the market for an upgrade. The X covers every use case and leaves me wanting nothing. The home buttons on all my iPhones always wore out, got sticky, or eventually unresponsive after a few years. I’m somewhat curious what will ultimately take down my X, if I don’t drop it hard, I can’t see what about it could possibly wear out.
- brian-armstrong 8y ago
  You are so so wrong about the jack
  - wilsonnb3 8y ago
    Nah, people are going to stop complaining about the jack by the end of the year. Using a lightning adapter is pretty painless. People just don't like change and love to complain.
jedanbik 8y ago
iPhone SE wasn't waterproof.
beeskneecaps 8y ago
I love reading all of these comments by my fellow SE lovers. We should setup a huge meetup in SF to protest. https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/
acoye 8y ago
R is the new SE. The profitability was too low on SE or was not shouting enough ´luxury´ so they retired it for a more expensive yet still value targeted new model.
erikpukinskis 8y ago
The irony is that when the Android phablets came out, Jony Ive got on camera and said unequivocally: “we tested it and the iPhone 5 form factor is the right size for single handed use.” I wish he would just explain his thinking on this. It’s such a fundamental design decision.
dbg31415 8y ago
I bought an SE as a burner phone. I got sick of switching SIM cards when I traveled. Anyway, grew to really love it. The size is perfect. It's flat and perfect without a case. Biggest feature: It has Apple Pay, a home button, and a thumb reader... I feel like such a putz trying to use Apple Pay on the X... like, "Hey hold on, Mr. Merchant, I have to take my sunglasses off and smile at my phone for it to authorize my credit card..." I hate that we have lost the thumb reader. Facial recognition isn't better, doesn't feel more polished, and we just threw out something damn near perfect for something that's meh at best.
dreamcompiler 8y ago
Killing their own good ideas is what Apple does best. Magsafe. Firewire. Cheese grater Mac Pro. Appletalk. Rosetta. Pre-2015 MBP. Original iMovie and iWork apps. The list goes on.
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure they didn't remove firewire from the MacBook line until the Retina came out, which had USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Both of which are faster than Firewire.
myrandomcomment 8y ago
So I have had pretty much every iPhone. I did like the 5's size. I had a 6 and 6P and skipped the 7. The P was to big. I have an X now and did not thing I would like it (carrier was willing to give $300 trade in on the 6P for an X). I LOVE it. The face unlock rocks. It is a bit bigger then I want but I can ride the train (others comments here) and use it with one hand. Just need to hold it a bit more towards the middle of the hand. The OLED screen is amazing and the camera is pretty good. That being said if they made a smaller X I would get it. I have also switched to CarPlay for pretty much everything while driving.
jarym 8y ago
Personally I love big screen phones - I don’t talk much on them but do use he web a lot so it makes sense. My mum thought only talks on her phone and she really likes something small and simple. We got her an SE to avoid going the Android route... if her SE needs replacing and we can’t find an apple replacement then it will have to be the Android route.
expathacker 8y ago
Last year my iPhone 5 died while on a flight, so I stopped in duty free to buy a new one. I was about to pickup an iphone X when I realized that I couldn't stand it up on it's end and take videos, which I do on a daily basis when practicing my instrument. There was an iphone SE 128GB sitting next to the iphone X for less than 1/2 the price ... I expect to use this phone for another 3 years until they've slowed iOS down enough to make it unusable. Unexpectedly, the killer feature for me ended up being, "Can I record myself drumming without needing some stupid attachment?"
ksec 8y ago
I just think they are planning to launch a Xr Mini next year. With the iPhone SE body size they could fit it with 4.7" Display. If they had kept the iPhone SE in the lineup, and introduce Xr next year, the reaction from people will likely be Apple bump the price of small iPhone from $349 to $599 / $649 ( Assuming $100 to $150 cheaper than Xr ) Now that iPhone SE is gone. They can make a new iPhone entry next year. Instead of replacing something with a more expensive model, they are giving you something new. It makes you value it differently. I think that is how it is going to work out next year. iPhone 8 > iPhone Xr > iPhone Xs. Each with two different Display size.
newscracker 8y ago
> Flat, symmetrical design? Check. Actual edges to hold onto? Check. Every iPhone made by Apple after this, in my view, is a “wet soap”. They’re all so slippery and bound to fall from one’s hands easily. I personally cannot hold them without a case that mimics flat and better edges, essentially changing the shape of the phone to that of an iPhone SE and also increasing the weight. What a lost opportunity to make a great device again in every respect, Apple! From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out of touch with what people love (not jut like), want and desire. Mac mini, now iPhone SE...voting with your wallets alone won’t help while ASPs of new iPhones are more and profits are increasing. Write to Tim Cook over email and let him know why you’re switching. Maybe, just maybe, when the good times start to turn bad, Apple may realize its follies and change course. These kind of articles also help, but consumers need to voice their thoughts to Apple. Send emails to the top people and also write on Apple’s feedback page.
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  > From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out of touch with what people love (not jut like), want and desire. Consider for a moment that it's actually you that's out of touch with what people love, want, and desire. They sold like 200 million iPhones in 2017. Hard to believe that they don't know what consumers want.
  - newscracker 8y ago
    Agree. Apple marches to its own tune. But it’s also sad that it ignores passionate users who have been evangelizing its products.

391 points by coloneltcb 8y ago

What I like about the SE is the small form factor, supported by a vendor who I know will keep providing OS / Security updates. All the status and 2FA applications I need running on a supported platform.

hownottowrite 8y ago

I love my SE. The form factor is perfect for me. I'd gladly buy a "XS-SE" to get the camera upgrade. The rest? Not so much. RIP

Exuma 8y ago

iPhone SE inferior to iPhone X in practically every way

laktak 8y ago
except in size
- mattnewton 8y ago
  And headphone jack. And price.
pauljaworski 8y ago
Internals? Duh. It came out years earlier. Design? Nah. Some of us like a phone that fits comfortably in our hand and pocket, and doesn't look like every other phone out there.
- Exuma 8y ago
  The iPhone X fits perfect in my hand. I upgrade from iPhone 6 and didn't notice any difference in size. Actually use it first. When I have to use a button to open a phone now it feels like using a fax machine. It's so incredibly sluggish, slow and clunky. And, when I look at an iPhone with huge borders on the edge (iPhone X goes right to the edge) it gives me claustrophobic anxiety because it's so small. People are so afraid of change. Aside from the price, there's really no reason not to upgrade.
  - greatquux 8y ago
    Well that's just like your opinion man. Seriously I love the SE too. And I was coming from large screen Android world to it as my first iOS device. Maybe they'll revive it by the time mine is ready to die...
pazimzadeh 8y ago
It's less likely to break, easier to reach all buttons on the screen, can stand up without a stand, and has better battery life.
kolbe 8y ago
I got my SE for $100. What's the going rate for a new X?
dang 8y ago
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
- Exuma 8y ago
  The comment of the article is literally "best iphone apple ever made"

dpeck 8y ago

I don’t know about best, but I do love the form factor and wish they had refreshed it. I’ll end up getting an Xs but I’ll miss having a phone comfortably in my pocket. I guess the emerging market play didn’t work out? Or perhaps the Chinese market got to where large portions could afford the oversized screens sooner than expected?

laktak 8y ago

There was also an article & discussion in wired https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855

wlesieutre 8y ago

Compared to the iPhone XS, the iPhone SE: - Costs $650 less - Does everything I need it to - Does it one-handed I'm sure the new camera and OLED screen and everything are very nice but I just don't care enough to spend 3x as much money on fancy phone with a huge screen when I'm already trying to stare at my phone less, not more. Maybe the goal is to make phones so uncomfortable to use that you won't want to take them out of your pocket.

wlesieutre 8y ago
And they were talking about wanting to make devices last longer to use less materials and reduce waste! The solution to that is apparently: - Use more materials to make larger phones - Make the phone more difficult to grip securely - Wrap glass around the edges so it can always land on glass no matter how you drop it - Move control center so far away that you have to let go of the phone to reach it iPhone SE 2 please.
- deltron3030 8y ago
  The Watch might be the SEs spiritual successor, or they let the small form factor (pocket watch) die to sell more wrist watches..
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    Great comment. 2 thoughts: web browsing is a bit grim and the need for using 2 hands seems irritating, especially as you’ll be scrolling a lot on a small screen.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      Take off the band and use it as a phone? We could all put them on chains again instead and walk around like 19thC gents with their chained pocket watches?
      - Serow225 8y ago

RodgerTheGreat 8y ago

I have an SE, and I like it. The size is nice, I like that it lays flat, I like that it has a headphone jack. Newer models don't have compelling features my SE lacks, and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and will likely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out. I have an 11" Macbook Air, and I love it. The size and weight is nice, the keyboard is great, the touchpad is precise, I love that it has MagSafe, and I consider the ability to plug in DisplayPort monitors and my USB-A devices a must-have. Newer laptop models don't have compelling features my Air lacks, and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and will definitely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out. It's frustrating when a company makes products that suit your needs well, and then changes its mind. I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore.

fredleblanc 8y ago
> I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore. I say this more and more each day. I'm in the same boat with the SE, and it's also the same with the MacBook Pros for me. I bought a refurbished MacBook Pro last October, the one from 2015, the last one with a great keyboard. It seems that April 2016 was the peak of where Apple and I aligned.
happertiger 8y ago
I had a 13 inch MacBook Pro 2016. Sold it. Went back to using my 2013 MacBook Pro. I have an iPhone 7 and I miss my headphone jack every day. The best phone I ever owned was the se. Apple is happily going off in a nonsense direction where their products are less and less useful because they are less complete and therefore less “self reliant” as devices. See that’s what people don’t articulate. It’s not that the design changes are bad. Some are great. It’s that the balance of great design and great utility is what made apple impossible to beat as a phone and a laptop, and then there was the fact that they were seamlessly integrated (something apple has still failed to fully exploit — their stuff could be mind blowing). This is what made the brand great, and I feel like people miss that part of the argument. When you bought a 2013 MacBook Pro, you didn’t need to buy accessories because it had it all - hdmi, usb, etc. - and it was useful without any additional accessories and met or exceeded my needs in almost all circumstances. I didn’t need a dongle to present and I didn’t need a cable adapter to charge my phone. When I packed for a conference I would grab my laptop, a power supply (that I could trip over in hotel rooms while working with no worries and that neatly wrapped up), and an hdmi to dvi adapter in case the projector failed, but that was it. Now I feel like Apple has externalized all of that utility in an effort to boost margins or go thin, and it’s basically made the devices reliant on a host of adapters, both for phones and laptops (and actually the 2013 Mac pro was the same problem). Apple needs to understand what made them great was that they weren’t the ultimate steak knife, they were the ultimate survival knife, and get back to building the most useful, thought out and self-contained devices like they used to. They had a sweet spot, but we’re going back to the Apple cube across all product lines again, and nobody wants that. The pro computer failure and the move away from nerd needs to slab of glass has lost balance and is heading into design over substance. The pendulum needs some rebalancing.

MBCook 8y ago

As a developer the SE is a pain because the screen is so much smaller (especially horizontally) than every other model. Things that fit on other iPhones are big issues on the SE. This will make life easier in the long run. And I’m guessing this is true for Apple too. But I get why people loved them. I like the 6 screen size and don’t want to go back, but the SE feels ‘right’ somehow.

ianai 8y ago
There are ways they could fit a higher resolution and screen into that form factor. They’re just not interested in breaking their notch trend.
- MBCook 8y ago
  If you increased the effective resolution the touch targets would get very hard to use. I don’t think the notch is a factor in this. Apple knows how many they sell. I’m guessing their sales metrics show it’s just a tiny tiny portion of sales. The fact it’s no longer similar to other phones they’re still selling means the economy of scale isn’t there anymore.
- Bud 8y ago
  Every part of this is wrong. But the "notch trend" bit is hilarious. The idea that the notch is a "trend" Apple started on purpose, rather than a design element that was necessitated by making a full-screen phone that still needs to have 9 sensors and devices pointing forwards is laughable enough, but the idea that Apple would refuse to implement another design because of the "notch trend" is full-on goofy. Apple doesn't think or work that way.
psychedictic 8y ago
SE is great for developers, since it sets a reasonable minimum bar for screen resolution.
- MBCook 8y ago
  In my experience, it’s TOO minimum relative to the 6, 6+, and X.

carlosrg 8y ago

Seems like I'm going to use my SE for a long time. I would have considered upgrading to a SE 2 though.

ianai 8y ago

I, for one, can never purchase a device that has to take a photo every time I lift it. That’s literally illegal where I’d use it 95% of the time. I also can’t be the only person who doesn’t get much utility out of the selfie cam. But I definitely like having a phone that fits comfortably in my pocket with my wallet - and that I can use one handed. Couldn’t they ditch the notch by having the speaker on the edge of the device? I have no problem hearing the speaker with my phone pulled away from my ear.

wufufufu 8y ago
You can disable Face ID... But I'm sure they'll re-introduce a revolutionary new fingerprint scanner soon enough.
- ianai 8y ago
  You can? News to me! Thank you.
  - satysin 8y ago
    Just don't set it up. You can select the option to skip/setup later and just never do it. Of course you are then limited to using a PIN as there is no other biometric option on the X/Xs sadly.
- Yetanfou 8y ago
  That has already been done by Synaptics and is used in the Xiaomi Mi 8 [1]. Seeing that Xiaomi copied most of the design from the iPhone X - notch and all, unfortunately - I guess Apple should get a pass when they copy the under-screen finger print sensor from Xiaomi. [1] https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-mi8-news/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-mi8-news/
  - wufufufu 8y ago
    That's what I was referring to. It'd be a great feature. Apple would just nail the design and execution, give it a trademark name, and go to town with it.

kolbe 8y ago

The only reason I'm not buying a second one right now to keep as a backup is that the SE's small screen eventually will not be worth supporting by my favorite apps. My guess is by this time next year, I'll need a new phone just to be able to use them. I find it hard to believe us small phone people will be taken care of by Apple ever again.

beaner 8y ago

I feel this way about the Nexus 6p, another beautiful phone that will never be back. These phones had a kind of identity that modern ones don't. Nowadays they're all the same.

noir_lord 8y ago
I got a Nokia 6.1 (new model) and it's absurdly good for the money and I truly love the design. The black and copper looks premium against my GF's iPhone 8, It's easy to hold, it's milled out of aluminium and strongly built, it's smooth, fast (Android One is great). And it cost a fifth of what an iPhoneX costs here. I even liked their cheeky piss take of the Johnny Ive videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk
- robocat 8y ago
  Seconded - we bought a Nokia 7+ for work for Android 9 beta testing (cheapest phone that gets beta updates). Nice hardware and everyone in the office likes how it looks - I'm using it as my everyday phone. iPhone SE topic: are there any manufacturers that take older iPhone model guts and repackage them with different bodies and screens? I would love to use an iPhone (Google doesn't do privacy) but I can't justify spending 2 to 3 times the price on something I regularly break or lose... (I generally avoid fragile expensive utility items).
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    Nokia are killing it, one of the reasons I bought this was because android one makes testing on latest chrome/OS a lot simpler. I use an iPad mini for safari testing because iPhones are so damn expensive, I can at least borrow my GF's in a pinch.

petercooper 8y ago

My wife is really annoyed at the death of the SE. It's the biggest phone she can hold and use in a single hand while holding stuff in the other, dealing with kids, etc. As the screen is getting water damaged and it's generally becoming flaky with age, she might have to jump ship to Android but she really doesn't want to.

macintux 8y ago
It sounds like there aren't any small Android phones either, at least not high quality ones. I sympathize: I actually prefer the original 3.5" screen iPhone. Even the 4" screen seemed a bit too tall for comfort. I finally decided if I was going to need two hands periodically anyway, I might as well bite the bullet and go with a large phone.
- petercooper 8y ago
  She had a Sony Xperia briefly between the iPhone 5 and the SE which was pretty small. The current smallest Xperias (XA1 and XZ2 Compact) are now rocking 5" screens though, so only half an inch smaller than the X/XS.
- bob_theslob646 8y ago
  Samsung Galaxy S6 may be your best bet.
- another-cuppa 8y ago
  The Sony Xperia Z3 Compact was a great phone. But unfortunately it had a design flaw that meant the screen would become unglued and it's very hard to repair. I "upgraded" to the X Compact but it's complete garbage in comparison. So many things wrong with it. I really don't want a big phone, though.
cimmanom 8y ago
There are still a few third parties selling them, and (non-factory) refurbs all over the place. Might want to grab one up now while there’s still stock.

jplayer01 8y ago

I love my SE. I'll probably get an over-sized Android in the future just for web browsing and watching movies, but I'll keep my SE until it breaks for everything else where some measure of security is important (auth keys, emails, communication, etc.), and I'll probably replace it with another SE when it does.

Jtsummers 8y ago

The iPhone XS has a total 6.3" diagonal, with 5.8" display. The SE has a total 5.4" diagonal. If you gave it an edge-to-edge display, you could get a 5" diagonal screen on it, which is bigger than the iPhone 7 screen size (4.7" display, total diagonal is 6.05"). So a maxed out screen size on an SE body would give you a better screen than the 7, but in a smaller phone. How is this not an obvious direction? Lag the other hardware by 1-2 years to keep costs down a bit and avoid directly competing against the XS. I'd still buy it.

lostlogin 8y ago
With the Touch ID that isn’t really a button but is, and the headphone jack. With current generation internals I’d pay more for that than the current phones.
cimmanom 8y ago
Sadly most of us would not be able to reach the top of the screen one-handed on a phone that size. Even on an iPhone 4 form factor it’d be a stretch for those of us without enormous hands.

cjensen 8y ago

I love the SE because of the form factor. Would have bought the next one. But I have to imagine a lot of SE buyers were doing so based on price rather than because it has an awesome form factor. Apple is now serving the cheap side of the market with the 7, which will probably make the cheap buyers a lot happier than the SE.

spydum 8y ago
I moved from SE to 7.. totally not worth it. I would have paid more for the SE form factor.
- dijit 8y ago
  As would I. But how can Apple distinguish between value buyers and form-factor buyers?
  - tspike 8y ago
    By making a high end small phone?
    - abraham_lincoln 8y ago
      I would pay $800 for a modernized SE (but keep the 3.5mm jack, I am giving you $800!!!).
mirceal 8y ago
You would probably be wrong. I had a 5S before and got the SE. Really like the form factor and to me this is peak Iphone. Everything after this is a downhill ride for me.
jplayer01 8y ago
I had a 6S work phone for half a year, then decided to try an SE for a few weeks (and send it back if I liked the 6S better). So I had both at the same time. SE won hands down.

DanTheManPR 8y ago

I bought an iPhone SE last night. The smartphone industry's decision making in the last few years has been... bizarre. I've been an Android user up to this point because I appreciated the vast feature set, open architecture and diversity of hardware that I could find. That initially meant settling for a lot of the quirks and general cheapness of early Android phones - Apple had them all so thoroughly beat on polish. With the advent of really good high-end phones from Samsung and others, and the great advancements in Android's software, it seemed to me that we were getting to the point that there was no particular reason why anyone should prefer an Apple smartphone over any of the other high-end options. The phablet craze and the ridiculous explosion in screen size should have tipped me off that something was very wrong with the industry. It didn't make sense to me that literally no-one would offer a phone that was small enough for one-handed use. And then they started eliminating the headphone jacks. And then... the notch. Multi-billion dollar development teams started chasing each other down degenerate design paths. The modern smartphone is this weird art project that's uncomfortable to interact with, and doesn't have a lot of basic features I use. Swappable battery? Expansion slot for microsd? Rare, and getting rarer. Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going to live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one. I won't put the iPhone SE on a pedestal. It's older hardware, and you're definitely sacrificing some battery life and camera quality (two of the few positives of these modern phablets). But I can reach across the whole screen with my thumb, and I can listen with any set of headphones I want, and it's really very pleasant to use - after only half a day of use, it has just seamlessly disappeared into my life. Exactly as it should.

mlcdf 8y ago
Why not go with the Xperia XZ1 Compact then? Because of this? -> > Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going to live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one. I'm asking because I'm torn between Xperia XZ1 Compact and the iPhone SE... edit: forgot the "Compact" part...

krisleipus 8y ago

I guess Apple strategy for this is: if you need secondary device for situations where it is uncomfortable to use your primary big screen iPhone - buy Apple Watch cellular, if you just want cheap entry to iOS - there is older gen phones (iPhone 7 for this year). Probably those who just want a small primary phone is a niche (and not very profitable) market.

Razengan 8y ago

I've used every iPhone since the 5, including the SE, and I think the X is the best phone they've ever made, so much that I don't plan on upgrading until next year's refresh.

Razengan 8y ago
EDIT: I might hold out until they have a 3D-mapping camera system. Can't think of anything else I might want in a phone in the near future.

fn 8y ago

Definitely sucky, I was waiting for and would have upgraded to an SE2 in a heartbeat. It's the perfect size and I really don't understand why folks no longer want phones that can be used in one hand or fits into a pocket.

rooam-dev 8y ago
For me, it would be video/movie watching. On 5.5in is much nicer.
bennyp101 8y ago
I don't think it's a case of "folks no longer want phones that can be used in one hand or fits into a pocket" I think it's more a case of the companies saying "what you want is a bigger, shiny screen so you can use it like a computer, nobody has small phones anymore, don't be left out" They have gone from a useful accessory, to a status/fashion symbol where bigger and faster is always better* * For a given value of better (Obviously some people actually do want bigger screens because they need it for things, but I would say they are in the minority)
- pwagland 8y ago
  I'm not convinced that it's the minority that want it though. It probably _is_ the minority that _need_ it. But if I look around, I see a bunch of crappy big screens around, because "bigger is better" right? And sometimes, those bigger screens really are crappy. Some of them are decent quality, but they tend to also cost a packet, just like the iPhone, but not as crazy expensive as an iPhone. Still there are a lot of big crappy screens to be found around.
CharlesW 8y ago
The iPhone XS is 13mm wider. You can absolutely use it one-handed, and can enable Reachability[1] to make one-handed use easier. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/20/iphone-x-how-to-enable-reachability-improve-control-center/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/20/iphone-x-how-to-enable-reacha...
- 8y ago

michaelchisari 8y ago

I was really looking forward to getting the SE 2 now that my iPhone 8 contract is up. :/

peterburkimsher 8y ago

I'm still using an iPhone 4S 64GB with a Third Rail removable battery case. Blog posts like this make it clear that there's a market for small-screen phones, even though none of the usual companies are building them. I think it's time to give up hope for Apple, and build a new ecosystem. Old iPods are very hackable [1]. There are suppliers making replacement backplates, click wheels, extended capacity batteries, and SD card adaptors. There's plenty of room for a Raspberry Pi Zero in the back, although I use a PQI Air Card. It can't run touchscreen apps though, which rules out maps/cameras/typing/many other apps. Is there a touchscreen that can fit inside 103.5 x 61.8 mm? That's the part I would need to build my own iPod successor. [1] https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-classic-5g-5-5g-6g-6-5g-7g-ssd-mod-thread.566780/page-642 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-classic-...

mariodiana 8y ago

Honestly, in some ways I liked the iPhone 4/4s even better. It had the best hand feel of all of Apple's phones. But, when I upgraded to a 5, I did appreciate more screen. I have an SE now, and I am totally dejected about these big phones. I don't live on my phone (like the rest of the world seems to). I want something that fits unobtrusively in my pocket and that can be easily manipulated with one hand. Fie on Apple!

zoltaan 8y ago
Agreed about the 4s. I expected having the same form factors with less borders for a bigger screen. There was quite a potential in that (edge to edge screen might been exciting the coolness chasers as well). Shame did not happen.
abraham_lincoln 8y ago
Also, agree. I was playing with my 4S yesterday. I like its heft and size. I would love to have a replacement board for it to run whatever.

dougmwne 8y ago

Goodbye SE, you will be missed. You had every feature a person could need. Your tiny screen kept the addictive app mania at bay. You fit in every pocket. You survived a drop a week for 2 years. You could not survive apple's quest for more profit margin.

evv 8y ago

This is a well written article, but I can't help but wonder.. was TechCrunch inspired by my response yesterday to their XR article? The thought makes me chuckle. https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904 https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904 "The people’s iPhone is still the SE.. made for human-sized hands, includes TouchID, headphone jack, is reasonably priced, and is the lightest phone they’ve ever shipped..."

aphextron 8y ago

There's just no room in Apples lineup for loved products with small sales numbers. Case in point: the 17" Macbook Pro. I have large hands, large fingers, and enjoy having a massive display on my laptop, and it was perfect for me. I would love nothing more than for Apple to make a true desktop replacement laptop. However it seems their only interest anymore is in appeasing the mass market of ultra slim portable devices which most people want. You simply cannot buy a Macbook quality 17" laptop in 2018 and that's insane. I really think there's a market opening here for someone to fill that niche.

lostlogin 8y ago
Wasn’t the keyboard the same size as on the smaller laptops, just with acres on each side?
- spullara 8y ago
  Yes. All sizes, even 11" air, had the same keyboard. The touch pad might have been bigger.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    No, the 11” Air had a smaller keyboard: just look at the function keys on it.
    - Bud 8y ago
      The 11" Air keyboard is the same width, but not quite as deep.
- aphextron 8y ago
  Keyboard is the same but you have a lot more space to stretch out and rest your palms for larger hands. I’m cramped in 15” and 13” is totally unusable.
lostgame 8y ago
Every film director in the world groaned in unison when they heard the 17" was discontinued. I wish the newest version didn't have such awfully outdated specs, I'd love a 17" MacBook Pro again.

roymurdock 8y ago

Macbook Pro Mid 2012 / iPhone SE user here (just bought a 2nd 128gb SE last month) Apple has lost my business for upgrades with their new product direction in both laptops and phones But we are not their target market anymore - it's the people/enterprises that can splash out $1-2k every year for the latest pic taking and video watching tech And there are enough people out there to keep the company's revenues booming and the market happy Would love to see someone focus on our slice of the market again, I just don't know if it can be done in a profitable way at this point

sspencer 8y ago

I bought an iPhone SE when it came out. It's the perfect phone in my opinion. I am fully prepared to use it until it falls apart and it's so well built I think it may take a while. Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big and they deleted features I want while adding nothing useful to me. I wasn't expecting an SE2 so I wasn't disappointed when it failed to appear. This iPhone and my MacBook Pro 2015 are the last Apple products I'll expect I'll ever own. Not out of spite but because they no longer make things I need, or even want.

freehunter 8y ago
See, I'm the opposite, but I know exactly where you're coming from. I stayed away from the iPhone until they started increasing the screen size, because the original was waay too small for my tastes. But when it came time to get a work phone, I purposefully chose the 5S and then later the SE because I was already carrying a huge phone. I didn't need to carry two. I still feel the SE is a bit too small to be my main phone, but I do wish they kept making a phone that small. I know my sister prefers it, I prefer it for my second phone, a lot of people liked it. Plus the 5S/SE industrial design is 10x better than any phone that came before or after. It's just beautiful, it's easy to hold, it's durable. It's just a great small phone, even if I think it's too small for my tastes.
CharlesW 8y ago
> Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big… The iPhone XS itself is 13mm wider than the S. As someone who uses an iPhone 7 Plus with one hand, I'm surprised that 13mm would make a difference. I'd be curious to hear what you thought after using one for a week.
- MapleWalnut 8y ago
  It's the screen size that matters. I can reach the top corners of a iPhone5-sized phone with ease. iPhone6-sized phones require me to strain or give up and use the reachability feature. I don't think I'm alone in this.
- Bud 8y ago

tambourine_man 8y ago

Having lived all my life through a period where it was safe to assume that eletronic devices would only get better, it hasn't been easy to adapt to this new trend. We'll make it thinner, regardless of optical limitations, just leave a camera bump. We want edge to edge display, but need a camera on the front and can't quite put it under it yet: behold the notch. We will assume Gordon Gekko was ahead of its time and simply have everyone use preposterously large phones.

samch93 8y ago

I am a happy owner of an SE and I am afraid of the moment it breaks down. Can anyone recommend an alternative compact phone with similar build quality and the same features in terms of software and hardware?

ConcernedCoder 8y ago

My 6s might as well be dead, with each os update it runs slower and slower... now just scrolling the screen lags to a level that makes it mostly unusable... thanks Apple.

saagarjha 8y ago
Install iOS 12 when it comes out in three days?
wvenable 8y ago
This is the downside to phones that get frequent updates. My iPhone 5 got a ridiculous number of updates (2-3 major versions) over it's life but got worse with each one. I have a Samsung S tablet that got one major update (installed literally the day I bought it) but is exactly as same in terms of performance and utility as the day I got it. It's still perfect. Probably has some terrible security flaws, though.
Bud 8y ago
Wipe your device, install iOS 12, and then restore your data. I guarantee you your 6S will run better than new.
- mmagin 8y ago
  How has apple managed to make iOS as bad as Windows 95?
matwood 8y ago
Get the battery checked and replaced if needed. Then install iOS 12 in a few days.
- ConcernedCoder 8y ago
  1. Battery was replaced 3 months ago 2. I run it in "low power mode" already, otherwise it's a brick. 3. Battery Health (Beta) reports: - Maximum Capacity 100% - Peak Performance Capability Your battery is currently supporting normal peak performance I can touch the screen and it acts as though nothing is happening...swipes, taps, etc... then seconds later it will run through all the things I've been trying to do all at once... pretty much unusable at this point.

webkike 8y ago

I just preorded a new iPhone XS to replace my pixel, but I think I have to agree. The iPhone 5s was the first iPhone I ever bought and the experience was simply magical. The phone itself was so beautiful, and the operating system just gave it this unbeatable cohesion. I hope the iPhone XS can replicate at least some of that feeling, and I'm willing to let it. But I'm also skeptical of that.

squozzer 8y ago

Damn. The SE is my fave too. BUT, I only owned a 4s prior. So my experience is rather limited. My GF has a 5c, and the SE is lighter than a 5c. The 6 and later versions were too big, for bigger screen needs I have an iPad mini. Which also seems on a glide path to obsolescence. If we were limited to one Apple mobile device per person by decree, then maybe the bigger iPhone would make sense. Understanding that Apple wants to avoid hyper-customization a la IBM PS/2 AND wants to maintain an air of avant-garde, some decent products have to be sacrificed. A poster made a comment about working with the SE's limitations when designing apps for the SE. Some apps (such as Amazon) looked very crowded on my SE. Another (Manhattan Metal Prices) looks great Maybe the SE died because it forced unwanted simplicity on app devs.

alexnewman 8y ago

Totally dropping apple, when they drop SE

taylodl 8y ago

Yeah. I like my SE and I'll keep it as long as I can (which will probably be for another year before I start running out of storage) but if I were in the market for a new iPhone today I'd go with the 8. It's not that much larger than the SE, it's certainly a lot cheaper than anything in the X series and it has wireless charging, not to mention a home button. Now that Apple has eliminated the SE the 8 is the best phone they're making.

deleted 8y ago

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joelrunyon 8y ago

Why do people keep making phones that are closer to tablets? I've had an iPhone for 8+ years and starting to look at other more reasonably sized options.

duncans 8y ago

Bear in mind the iPhone SE was not announced/released alongside the flagship iPhones in a September event, but in more low-key fashion 6 months later. There's still a chance something might come to fill the gap. They wouldn't want it to distract or cannibalise sales of their flagship models.

raviojha 8y ago
I would very much like to believe this, however, had there been plans for SE 2, they'd have let SE on sale until SE 2 was out. I wish I'm wrong and they release SE 2 after reaching their margin profits with X series.
lostgame 8y ago
This deserves more upvotes. I feel like it's an important note.
pentae 8y ago
I believe the solution to the SE is the XR model. Apple thinks it's the phone for the "Every Man" except the every man doesn't have a 6 figure tech salary and thinks it's about $250 too greedy.

kanishkdudeja 8y ago

Apple can no longer make a phone as good as the iPhone SE. It feels like pure magic and I believe that magic died with Steve Jobs.

jonknee 8y ago
To each their own, I vastly prefer the X line.

osrec 8y ago

The little cross in the corner of tech crunch articles is very annoying, especially since it redirects you to some clunky, slow loading news aggregation page. Also the page redirects you as you scroll past the end of the article. If you scroll down, then back up, the article is no longer there! Absolutely bizarre and aggravating UI/UX...

droidist2 8y ago

Do we know for sure it's dead? Could there be a smaller form factor next year? It was about 3 years between when the 5S and SE were released. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models

bigwheeler 8y ago

The SE or it’s equivalent will be back. It’s going to be smaller than the XS, with an edge to edge display, no home button, and no headphone jack. I think it’ll be in the next 6 months, but if not, within 12 for sure. It just makes sense. The only reason we didn’t get one this week is to keep the “new” lineup simple.

novaRom 8y ago

The problem with Apple is that their iOS products older than 2-3 years are becoming quickly unusable. I have some old iPads and I cannot install anything necessary like Firefox because their iOS is too old and there is no update available (happens with iPad mini). Or battery life deteriorates much quicker than in a typical Android phone (happens with iPhone 6). Or because next software update had made device totally unusable (that happened to iPad 1 which become literally unusable due to apps/browser crashes).

graeme 8y ago
Ios 12 is a huge improvement over 11. Older devices actually run faster. Am on the beta, works great.
zoom6628 8y ago
While everyone is moaning the demise of the SE do note that iOS12 supports the SE and the 5S. My guess is Apple is doing this to hold onto the small form factor customers long enough to make the final decision on small form factor product.

whitepoplar 8y ago

The problem with smartphones today is that it hurts to hold them in the hand. The SE is the best phone Apple ever made, but man do I wish Apple brought back the rounded-back form factor of the 3G/3GS. Someone mentioned this in another thread, but I think there's a huge market for an iPhone "Nano," something between an XS and Apple Watch in size, but that has 85% of the functionality of the XS. No gimmicks, no bullshit, just a beautifully made "utility" device.

graeme 8y ago

I hope they make another. I'm on the 8. The X's screen is too large for me to use comfortably. I would happily buy an SE2 and use that. Wouldn't mind a higher price either if it had specs to match the larger ones. I just want to be able to use a phone one handed and not be too distracted by it.

neuralRiot 8y ago

The iphone 4,5, SE looks like made by Porsche design which i love.

zaroth 8y ago

My kids have SEs, and I have an X. I appreciate the X oh so much in comparison. I absolutely love swiping up instead of clicking a home button. I delight in FaceID which works flawlessly even as I’ve lost 20 pounds and the shape of my face has changed fairly significantly over the last year. Most of all, I can actually type on the X, whereas when I go back to the kids’ SEs I can’t figure out how I ever got anything done on that thing at all. Headphone jack? Where we’re going, we don’t need jacks. The one and only downside of the X is that it must, must be in a case. I never put my iPhones in cases and never managed to crack one. The X with its all glass back, super slim profile, and curved edges is just too damn slippery. The bonus of putting the $1,000+ device in a case is that the camera bump disappears and the thickness ends up just about right for me. Wireless charging has been great, especially once I got one that held the phone raised up instead of flat (easier to position on just one axis) and rated for 10W. The size of the X I feel is so much better than the SE and still perfectly usable one handed. I really really don’t miss the home button. I find it so damn clunky on the SE now after getting to live without it on the X, and particularly double clicking home (versus the swipe up and to the right on the X) is just tedious. I assume the extra waterproofing you get without the home button has literally saved my device several times by now. I had an iPhone 4. And 5. And 5s. It’s a beautiful device. But it’s by no means an insurmountable pinnacle of design. I honestly haven’t look that closely at the new lineup, but I’m just not currently in the market for an upgrade. The X covers every use case and leaves me wanting nothing. The home buttons on all my iPhones always wore out, got sticky, or eventually unresponsive after a few years. I’m somewhat curious what will ultimately take down my X, if I don’t drop it hard, I can’t see what about it could possibly wear out.

brian-armstrong 8y ago
You are so so wrong about the jack
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  Nah, people are going to stop complaining about the jack by the end of the year. Using a lightning adapter is pretty painless. People just don't like change and love to complain.

jedanbik 8y ago

iPhone SE wasn't waterproof.

beeskneecaps 8y ago

I love reading all of these comments by my fellow SE lovers. We should setup a huge meetup in SF to protest. https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/

acoye 8y ago

R is the new SE. The profitability was too low on SE or was not shouting enough ´luxury´ so they retired it for a more expensive yet still value targeted new model.

erikpukinskis 8y ago

The irony is that when the Android phablets came out, Jony Ive got on camera and said unequivocally: “we tested it and the iPhone 5 form factor is the right size for single handed use.” I wish he would just explain his thinking on this. It’s such a fundamental design decision.

dbg31415 8y ago

I bought an SE as a burner phone. I got sick of switching SIM cards when I traveled. Anyway, grew to really love it. The size is perfect. It's flat and perfect without a case. Biggest feature: It has Apple Pay, a home button, and a thumb reader... I feel like such a putz trying to use Apple Pay on the X... like, "Hey hold on, Mr. Merchant, I have to take my sunglasses off and smile at my phone for it to authorize my credit card..." I hate that we have lost the thumb reader. Facial recognition isn't better, doesn't feel more polished, and we just threw out something damn near perfect for something that's meh at best.

dreamcompiler 8y ago

Killing their own good ideas is what Apple does best. Magsafe. Firewire. Cheese grater Mac Pro. Appletalk. Rosetta. Pre-2015 MBP. Original iMovie and iWork apps. The list goes on.

wilsonnb3 8y ago
I'm pretty sure they didn't remove firewire from the MacBook line until the Retina came out, which had USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Both of which are faster than Firewire.

myrandomcomment 8y ago

So I have had pretty much every iPhone. I did like the 5's size. I had a 6 and 6P and skipped the 7. The P was to big. I have an X now and did not thing I would like it (carrier was willing to give $300 trade in on the 6P for an X). I LOVE it. The face unlock rocks. It is a bit bigger then I want but I can ride the train (others comments here) and use it with one hand. Just need to hold it a bit more towards the middle of the hand. The OLED screen is amazing and the camera is pretty good. That being said if they made a smaller X I would get it. I have also switched to CarPlay for pretty much everything while driving.

jarym 8y ago

Personally I love big screen phones - I don’t talk much on them but do use he web a lot so it makes sense. My mum thought only talks on her phone and she really likes something small and simple. We got her an SE to avoid going the Android route... if her SE needs replacing and we can’t find an apple replacement then it will have to be the Android route.

expathacker 8y ago

Last year my iPhone 5 died while on a flight, so I stopped in duty free to buy a new one. I was about to pickup an iphone X when I realized that I couldn't stand it up on it's end and take videos, which I do on a daily basis when practicing my instrument. There was an iphone SE 128GB sitting next to the iphone X for less than 1/2 the price ... I expect to use this phone for another 3 years until they've slowed iOS down enough to make it unusable. Unexpectedly, the killer feature for me ended up being, "Can I record myself drumming without needing some stupid attachment?"

ksec 8y ago

I just think they are planning to launch a Xr Mini next year. With the iPhone SE body size they could fit it with 4.7" Display. If they had kept the iPhone SE in the lineup, and introduce Xr next year, the reaction from people will likely be Apple bump the price of small iPhone from $349 to $599 / $649 ( Assuming $100 to $150 cheaper than Xr ) Now that iPhone SE is gone. They can make a new iPhone entry next year. Instead of replacing something with a more expensive model, they are giving you something new. It makes you value it differently. I think that is how it is going to work out next year. iPhone 8 > iPhone Xr > iPhone Xs. Each with two different Display size.

newscracker 8y ago

> Flat, symmetrical design? Check. Actual edges to hold onto? Check. Every iPhone made by Apple after this, in my view, is a “wet soap”. They’re all so slippery and bound to fall from one’s hands easily. I personally cannot hold them without a case that mimics flat and better edges, essentially changing the shape of the phone to that of an iPhone SE and also increasing the weight. What a lost opportunity to make a great device again in every respect, Apple! From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out of touch with what people love (not jut like), want and desire. Mac mini, now iPhone SE...voting with your wallets alone won’t help while ASPs of new iPhones are more and profits are increasing. Write to Tim Cook over email and let him know why you’re switching. Maybe, just maybe, when the good times start to turn bad, Apple may realize its follies and change course. These kind of articles also help, but consumers need to voice their thoughts to Apple. Send emails to the top people and also write on Apple’s feedback page.

wilsonnb3 8y ago
> From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out of touch with what people love (not jut like), want and desire. Consider for a moment that it's actually you that's out of touch with what people love, want, and desire. They sold like 200 million iPhones in 2017. Hard to believe that they don't know what consumers want.
- newscracker 8y ago
  Agree. Apple marches to its own tune. But it’s also sad that it ignores passionate users who have been evangelizing its products.