17 ms·
GlaxoSmithKline makes $300M investment in 23andMe, forms 50-50 R&D pact
- aaavl2821 8y ago23andme has made a pretty impressive recovery after the FDA issues a few years ago, although i think the jury is still out on how useful their data will be for drug discovery. I think they mostly have genotype data rather than WES, and i think their clinical data is all patient reported? The value of their engaged audience seems clearer, especially if it can help enroll clinical trials faster
- randcraw 8y agoIt may be that GSK isn't really interested in the existing 23&me product line, but wants their name recognition and infrastructure. 23 is as close as anyone to delivering a full GWAIS product to the public, which this partnership only enhances. Combined with large capacity cheap deep sequencing by someone like BGI, this partnership would be ideal for GSK to add in-house infrastructure to do a LOT of GWAIS for all kinds of drug target ID efforts or clinical patient stratification. Maybe GSK has decided to target patients very precisely as standard practice in all future drug trials. This makes a lot of sense if you want a new drug to maximize efficacy or minimize toxicity by cherry picking your high responders and low intoxicants, thereby easily avoiding all folks who don't benefit from it, even if no-go patients are in the majority. But it also assumes such cherry labels will be available to physicians and insurers soon, presumably as de rigeur medical practice for the general public. Streamlining a product like 23's might make this initiative fly economically. Done early in a drug trial, like phase II, you might be able to use deep genome data to tune up or rescue a new drug that looks promising but not quite promising enough to continue to phase III. Deep genomic analysis is a very promising way to stratify patients who will benefit from those who won't. This looks to me like GSK has just bought into GWAIS in a big way for thousands or more patients, esp in clinical trials. This partnership can only help both companies, since I don't see a major pharma ever trying to take over 23's existing boutique geek navel-gazer business.
- aaavl2821 8y agoYeah I agree that 23andme name recognition and brand is valuable and maybe best in class for engagement of patients with genomic data. So for clinical trial recruitment and marketing that would help. I'm less convinced of the value of 23 and me data in drug discovery. It could be quite useful but is not best in class. The regeneron genetics center is a much better approach imo -- sequencing data vs genotyping, access to robust medical data, partnerships with leading medical institutions to get patients and data, and a targeted biology driven strategy that reduces the cost of getting a signal. As far as cost per good potential target, 23and me is probably an order of magnitude or more behind Not sure how 23 and me would help GSK analyze genetic subpopulations -- GSK could sequence patients just fine on their own without 23and me and get more robust data than 23 and me genotype data. For biomarker discovery once you have a candidate and are moving into clinical studies there are probably much better targeted solutions than 23 andme Value of 23 and me is 1) brand and 2) data on large number of pts. 2) helps with finding genetic markers with low effect size which isn't really helpful for drug discovery and also finding rare variants with large effect, which is important, but there are better / cheaper ways of doing that (i.e. regeneron)
- TrainedMonkey 8y agoMake no mistake about what is happening here. GSK is buying access to all of the genetic data that 23andMe has. This is why I am wary to use any 23andMe type of service. "The partners plan to use 23andMe’s data to jointly discover drug targets." They will claim all kinds of protections of course, but it is only a matter of time until genetic data starts being resold.
- snarf21 8y agoAgreed, at best it is a picture of the market for drug X at the genetic level. My biggest fear is that my close family members use this service exposing key data about me and I can't really prevent it, only encourage them not to.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y agoBoth of my parents have used 23andMe. In that case although I've never consented 23andMe knows quite a bit about my genetic profile. I wonder if this sort of "inferred" data is going to be traded.
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- kgilpin 8y agoOr used against you in a court of law.
- bmmayer1 8y ago> genetic data starts being resold Or hacked.
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- azujus 8y agoIt’s sad that you can no longer get your genetic health info in Europe from 23andMe, but does this mean GSK will only have access to American info?
- stochastic_monk 8y agoI expect the paperwork you sign explicitly gives them unlimited rights to your data.
- robbiemitchell 8y agoRelated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17611256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17611256
- ig1 8y agoThere's no Europe wide prohibition. Specific countries disallow the sale of the product, but there's plenty of European countries where you can buy the health product.
- pwaai 8y agoThis is an attempt to catolog every human being on this planet for surveillance. I'm sure you know how an ex-cop turned out to be the infamous golden state killer. While it's wonderful that these cold cases are now being solved, it also raises a strong privacy issue and also moral one. If criminals know they will be caught eventually thanks to genealogy and DNA cataloging, wouldn't this drive them to get rid of the DNA altogether and escalate their crime?
- csallen 8y agoIn response to your final sentence, making it so criminals have to work harder to get caught is never a bad thing. Consider the alternative.
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- throwaway0255 8y agoI find it seriously scary how 23andMe markets itself. Externally, they're a family company helping you understand your family history and equipping you to anticipate health problems so you can prepare for them. Internally, in presentations to venture capitalists and in job interviews with engineers like me, the picture is quite different. They're building a genetic database and plotting world domination from a thousand different angles that most people could never have even imagined. This stuff is straight out of a dystopian sci-fi novel. 23andMe is very similar to Google in this regard. We never imagined Google would have so much access to data, we never thought of the consequences. Now Google wields an absolutely unfathomable level of power over everyone in the world, and all anybody can really do is trust them not to abuse it. And also trust that all future generations and governments that inherit Google will never abuse it. 23andMe is one of those companies, but we aren't just talking about your searches and communications, we're talking about genetics and humanity and life itself on a very fundamental level. The ethical and moral dilemmas haven't been brought to light yet in a meaningful way, but it's inevitable, and they're some seriously next-level moral dilemmas. Even for Silicon Valley.
- dayvid 8y agoI asked 23andMe if there was any way to delete my genetic data from their site after the Equifax hack news. From their response: "23andMe and our third party genotyping laboratory will retain Genetic Information, date of birth, and sex as required for compliance with applicable legal obligations, including the U.S. Federal Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments of 1988 (CLIA), California Business and Professional Code Section 1265, and College of American Pathologists (CAP) accreditation requirements. 23andMe will also retain limited information related to your account and data deletion request, including but not limited to, your email address, account deletion request identifier, and record of legal agreements for a limited period of time as required by contractual obligations, and/or as necessary for the establishment, exercise or defense of legal claims and for audit and compliance purposes. We recommend that you review our full Privacy Statement for more information about deleting your data before submitting your request." So basically, once your in their system, you can't get out. And you're paying them money for this. Any way to do self-DNA testing?
- breck 8y agoI believe there are services that will do whole genome seq for you for under $10k(and I assume won’t keep your data). You could then use Promethease for analysis. I’m unaware of any way you could do self-DNA testing at home unless you wanted to spend $100k+ on equipment, reagents, etc. The Nanopore might be relevant but I haven’t looked into it much.
- jklehm 8y ago$1000 for the Minion and 2 flow cells. $900 per flow cell after that[0]. For 30x coverage (standard) takes about 15 flow cells[1]. So looking at $12700 to DIY. [0] https://store.nanoporetech.com/flowcells.html https://store.nanoporetech.com/flowcells.html [1] https://nanoporetech.com/about-us/news/human-genome-minion https://nanoporetech.com/about-us/news/human-genome-minion
- antpls 8y agoI asked myself the same question some weeks ago, and I did a bit of basic research. I didn't keep the sources, but I found there are 2 types of sequencing : "draft" and "full". From what I found, prices are quickly dropping over the past years, and the "draft" sequencing is becoming more complete. Most likely, 23andMe does a "draft" sequencing. Also I also read the value of $1000 for a draft sequencing. I wonder, given there are about 3 millions deaths each year in USA, why isn't there some kind of government sponsored research to collect death people's genomes? Every year, there would be 3 millions more genomes in database. People already dead don't need to have data protection or insurances risk, and there would be a full health historic and cause of death available for each genomes.
- bertil 8y agoIs anyone able to assess the quality of information security at GSK? I would expect reasonably protective InfoSec from 23&Me because of their close ties to Google, but GSK feels like a company too large to care, and without enough hackers at the top to be worried. I was taken aback by 23&Me’s anti-deletion contract, but with good security, I only have them to fear. If someone less scrupulous can access it, then I depend on their own security and that cascade tends to end up on haveibeenpwned.
- ironjunkie 8y agoI have more faith in a company such as GSK that takes data and privacy seriously than a company like 23&Me running mostly by silicon valley Kids that "Go fast and break things".
- paxy 8y agoThey already deal with HIPAA compliance, so that's some reassurance.
- amelius 8y agoHas any medical condition been solved through genotyping (as done by 23andme) yet?
- searine 8y ago23andMe as done several dozen publication performing GWAS using the genetic data combined with questionnaire data. This type of study aims to link symptoms with genetic cause. They have actually made a pretty significant impact in genetics research. They list their publciations here https://www.23andme.com/publications/ https://www.23andme.com/publications/
- tormeh 8y agoOh man that's very cool. I'm kind of a fan of 23andMe now. A bargain for GSK, I'd imagine.
- ironjunkie 8y agoI don't want to spread FUD but why would ANYONE in their right mind give their DNA to a company in Silicon Valley that is explicitely using Google as a model for Data privacy ? (The founder of 23AndMe is the ex-wife of Google founder). Even worse, people are actually PAYING quite a lot to get the privilege of having that company playing with your most private data. This field needs to be heavily regulated. In 20 years we will be able to extract all type of crazy information from DNA and it might be our biggest liability if it is shared across private companies. This will truly be the dystopian future, in which every business will make a decision based on your public DNA profile. As everything in Silicon Valley, they are hiding behind the fact that it can be used to make "The world a better place" and cure sone diseases. It should be clear what the end goal is though.
- sarabande 8y ago> why would ANYONE in their right mind give their DNA to a company in Silicon Valley that is explicitely using Google as a model for Data privacy ? (The founder of 23AndMe is the ex-wife of Google founder). I don't think a former personal relationship indicates the respective companies operate the same way. > Even worse, people are actually PAYING quite a lot to get the privilege of having that company playing with your most private data. Paying for something is a good thing. Historically in the Valley, companies for whose services you do not pay money tend to abuse your data as they use it as a source to earn money. I think in general, companies take more care of your data if the contract is explicit: I pay you money for this service, and expect corresponding controls over my privacy. Now, I'm not saying it's the case at all companies, just that I think the trend you mention is reversed. > This field needs to be heavily regulated. I agree. We absolutely should have better laws, and people should be able to delete their data without question (and not have remnants stored). In the EU, that wouldn't fly. Disclaimer: I worked at 23andMe.
- mattmanser 8y agoFair enough, but in another thread 23andme have responded to someone and said they will never delete their DNA data, even if requested. And claimed the laws are the ones preventing them from doing that.
- antpls 8y agoI wonder, given there are about 3 millions deaths each year in USA, why isn't there some kind of government sponsored research to collect death people's genomes? Every year, there would be 3 millions more genomes in database. People already dead don't need to have data protection or insurances risk, and there would be a full health historic and cause of death available for each genomes.
- jryan49 8y agoI see a lot of people making claims about 23andme that haven't used the product, and I just wanted to inform people that in the contract you sign with them, they only share your data if you opt-in to it. They make this all very clear. You can also have them discard your sample and delete your info if you haven't opt-ed in to the research program. Now trusting that 23andme is actually abiding by these rules is a different conversation.
- joering2 8y agoHave you EVEN read the title?? They are not sharing this information with private entity aka. opt-in/out. They made partnership research & development agreement in with GSK with invest over $300MM. 23and me is not sharing our data outside their fences BUT this agreement will let them bring GSK into their playground and do all sorts of stuff with your DNA. Worst case they will just buy the whole 23andMe as a company and once they own it, still your data technically haven't been opted-in/out anywhere, but Glaxo will do whatever they pleased with it :)
- jryan49 8y agoIt was made quite clear in the agreement that they cannot use data for research if you opt-out, even inside their own company. So you're saying any agreement someone has already made with 23andme in regards to their data usage has become null and void because of this investment? And would become if they were bought by another company?
- infodroid 8y agoIt doesnt really matter whether you opted in or out. In the end, all that matters is whether the projected profits from abusing your data exceed the projected legal costs of doing do.
- amelius 8y agoThese are the perfect kind of studies to be performed by universities. Sad to see the role of academia declining, and the corporate world taking over.
- doke01 8y agoHow can I get a mapping of my genetic data where no one but me gets the results?
- cncrnd 8y agoI would like to know this as well. Does genome sequencing through providers like Dante Labs guarantee that the data is not stores and/or shared? Are some providers better about this than others, and if so which ones? Also, once you have the data, are there tools to analyze your sequencing without resorting to a web service? I don't mind setting up instances or a cluster for this purpose. I am thinking that if genome analysis keeps improving in the insights it can provide, we could get to a point where some outcomes are predicted with near certainty. This data would be worth...infinite amounts to insurance companies.
- ourmandave 8y agoThe state that 23&me is incorporated in needs to pass a law pronto that says your dna belongs to you (despite any ToS). Something about affiliates (and companies buying their way in) can't use your data without express written permission. Probably want to call the European Union on how to get the wording right and not watered down by lobbyists.
- yters 8y agoIt's interesting that the ads target elderly people. It takes a relatively smaller number of elder customers to get at least partial DNA sequences for a larger swath of the population. My personal conspiracy theory is all these biometric recognition (such as face) and DNA sequencing services are serving to compile a vast human identification database. With all the Intagraming, live streaming, voice listeners, etc. it becomes much easier to have mass surveillance. Someone is wanted by the FBI? Well, maybe he'll show up in a friend's daughter's Instagram selfie, or random tourist snapping pix, or Alexa listening into his friend's home. No more need for painstaking installation of covert surveillance to get the perp. Furthermore, with access and analysis of someone's online posts, this opens up the possibility to detect future crime. I bet there is big government money now for startups that can correlate a person across all these data sources. Plus, this doesn't have to be in the government's hands. Dark web sellers have access to all this and more with all the data breaches. Such data can be used to compile lucrative targets for blackmailing or kidnapping, along with a pattern of life to make them easy to pick up.
- Friedduck 8y agoI personally wouldn’t use their services for fear insurance companies obtain the data. Not just now but at any point in your life (through bankruptcy, change of ownership , etc.)
- barking 8y agoThe genetically 'unhealthy' will flock for insurance which will increase premia and discourage the genetically 'healthy' from doing so. You cannot run a commercially viable life insurance in a situation where there isn't 'ultimate good faith'. One way or another testing will become compulsory for insurance.
- citochrome 8y agoAccording to the National Institute of Health, Many drugs that are currently available are “one size fits all,” but they don't work the same way for everyone. It can be difficult to predict who will benefit from a medication, who will not respond at all, and who will experience negative side effects (called adverse drug reactions). Adverse drug reactions are a significant cause of hospitalizations and deaths in the United States. With the knowledge gained from the Human Genome Project, researchers are learning how inherited differences in genes affect the body’s response to medications. These genetic differences will be used to predict whether a medication will be effective for a particular person and to help prevent adverse drug reactions.