28 ms·

Remote Only

• subway 8y ago
  For the love of all that is sane, please top trying to push nonstop video calls onto remote employees. Embrace asynchronous communication.
  • codemac 8y ago
    Asynchronous communication is like eventual consistency. It seems pragmatic until you actually struggle to get everyone to be on the same page at the same time, then you spend a lot of time figuring out how to be consistent. I agree the video calls are probably over the top - but asynchronous communication != synchronous communication.
  • sytse 8y ago
    At GitLab we work async by default. But we also learned that video calls are great for bonding and solving complex problems. We don't use video calls for presentations or status updates. The exception is functional group updates that are recorded for the people the can't attend and that spend a lot of time on questions.
  • 11235813213455 8y ago
    what's the right amount? 2 group calls per week, each under 1h?
  • rmsaksida 8y ago
    It's easy to go overboard with them, but if video calls are the price for going remote, I'll gladly pay.
  • mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    Same goes for getting rid of most meetings, period. Realtime audio/video synchrony is just not that useful many times, whether remote or in-person. Asynchrony is just generally better by default in a wide range of common situations. It’s particularly bad when you combine it with timewasting predetermined Agile meetings and distraction-oriented open plan offices. Employers who want happy, productive, collaborative workers: Stop disrupting people with useless meetings and denying them large chunks of private, quiet time to work however they see fit. Stop embedding them in open plan spaces. You know, treat them like an adult, with basic human dignity, who wants to be respected and trusted that they will succeed with their own judgment for how to effectively communicate and manage their work schedule.
  • faitswulff 8y ago
    Recently I had a bad experience at a fully remote company that decided to fix its remote communication issues with, wait for it...meetings! I went from short daily in person meetings with a longer retro to hour long (or longer) video calls every day during my lunch break hours, since they were on Pacific Time. The last standup I joined was two hours long and involved yelling. Needless to say, I became a lot more fond of Amazon's pre-meeting written notes after that.
  • matwood 8y ago
    > For the love of all that is sane, please top trying to push nonstop video calls onto remote employees. Nonstop video calls are dumb, but people should try to be on video when there are scheduled meetings. It really helps to see other people when having a discussion.
  • dstik 8y ago
    I completely agree that the most effective way for remote teams to communicate is via asynchronous video messaging instead of real-time video conferencing. Some of the difficulties I've experienced coordinating meetings with remote colleagues include: - Difficulty scheduling a time that fits for all participants. Some team-members are inevitably stuck with a non-ideal timeframe. Often times it's the same employee suffering each meeting, which leads to resentment. - Interruptions during productive hours. See the Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule (http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html) - reacting to interruptions can be disastrous. - Frustration from choppy/laggy video that results in loss of important parts of updates and valuable information. I'm actually building an app called Tape to address these kinds of issues and to improve communication and collaboration across teams by integrating into existing workflows not against them. If any of you guys are interested in learning more or trying out our product, I'd love to connect: https://trytape.typeform.com/to/pKe6X5 https://trytape.typeform.com/to/pKe6X5
    • detaro 8y ago
      Interesting, having never used async video messaging, what's the strength of video here?
  • BallinBige 8y ago
    pair programming is more effective IN PERSON
    • mmt 8y ago
      I don't think I've ever seen any objective evidence on this one way or the other.. have you?
    • detaro 8y ago
      Why? Pair programming is actually something I haven't found much different remote vs in person, assuming the right setup. I feel like the downsides of remote conferences really only kick in with multiple participants.
• hartator 8y ago
  > Disadvantages > Scares investors - Scares some partners - Scares some customers - Scares some potential employees, mostly senior non-technical hires - Onboarding is harder, first month feels lonely We do a full remote policy at SerpApi.com, however I found this disadvantages list a bit dishonest, they are more way numerous and important, the most obvious are missing real human contacts (and it doesn't get easier with time), and harder life and work separation.
  • lquist 8y ago
    Came to the thread to say this. The site loses a lot of legitimacy by glossing over very real tradeoffs to having a fully remote team.
    • thrill 8y ago
      One person's disadvantages is another's nirvana.
    • khalilravanna 8y ago
      I'll start by saying that pushing to normalize remote-work is a noble endeavor. But that being said, as you said, glossing over the disadvantages leaves this site/post feeling very one-sided. I say this as someone worked fully remote for 2 years. It was a fantastic job but the main reason I left was the disadvantages of being remote. To say that the advantages are far more numerous, and far outweigh the disadvantages is subjective and myopic. It works for some people and some types of work but to say it's the Best Solution sadly seems to be to just be being disingenuous.
  • cgb223 8y ago
    Can you expand on the disadvantages then? If you were to write that list, what would it look like?
    • bradford 8y ago
      I'm not the parent poster, but I think the document glossed over the biggest perceived disadvantage: Despite technological advances, I still believe that face-to-face communication is the most efficient way to transfer information and come to conclusions on difficult decisions. It's also the least susceptible to misinterpretation.
• tw1010 8y ago
  I like this kind of manifesto much more than the ones we've seen before in this industry. This one feels much much more honest.
• warcher 8y ago
  Yo, you gotta tell me when you’re working. You must. You’re on a team that is depending on you and somebody has to know where the fuck your are and when you’re going to fix whatever is broken today. “Where’s will?” “I don’t know, our manifesto says nobody gets to know when he’s working.” “Well he broke the site.” “That’s his right as a sovereign citizen.” The end.
  • ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    The corollary here is that if nobody knows when you're working, people will always expect you to work. That whole work/life balance thing depends on having clearly denoted "working time" and "not working time".
    • eckza 8y ago
      Full-time remote worker. We solve work-life and burnout problems at my organization by having set hours and hard stops at the end of the day. What you lose in having a fairly rigid schedule, you more than gain back by not having to carry around that “always on” feeling.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • bmelton 8y ago
        Also full-time remote worker. We solve the problem by letting people know when you will and won't be available. It can be super informal (e.g. "Hey guys, gonna be out of pocket this afternoon") or entered into a shared calendar. I agree with you (and OP) that there has to be some visibility into what work is going to be done when, and there are lots of ways to solve it, that said, I'm sympathetic to the notion that "I don't care how or when you work, as long as the work gets done." I'm a big fan of measuring developers more by the velocity of their Jira queues and commit history than how often they're available to be bothered with non-coding stuff.
    • jfaat 8y ago
      I guess, but even as an on-site employee if production breaks because of me and I’m not in the office, I’ll still get pinged 10/10 times
• kilroy123 8y ago
  Not sure if it's just my perception, but it seems the pendulum has swung back around and remote work is looked at unfavorably. I've worked remotely the last 3+ years and I'm currently looking for a new gig. Seems like there aren't a lot of companies who are ok with full-time remote. For the few that are, there is really stiff competition for those few jobs.
  • namibj 8y ago
    Check out German software-related companies. Small ones are usually flexible to be persuaded to hire you, if you can get through to them, that is. A good application should work, and as usual, don't give up too soon. They don't even know they can handle it. Maybe do some research as to how they'd have to do payroll, to reduce the scariness of someone overseas.
    • solarkraft 8y ago
      Where can I specifically find German tech companies?
      • elliotec 8y ago
        Germany and German websites might be a good start
      • namibj 8y ago
        Look at the HRB and GnR "Type of Register" on the advanced search of [0], and add keywords such as "IT", "net", "net" and similar. I'm not that well-versed in these matters, so while I think there is some source you could find a list of these names and just run a regex on, I don't know where to get that list. Also consider mining the CN fields of server certificates on German IP ranges/all IPv4 addresses (it's just 2^32), and check their Impressum. There you can look for a string ending in " GmbH" and " AG" in a footer, to get the company name to use your regex on. The benefit there is that it should yield all companies that have a German website with HTTPS, and I'd take a lack of HTTPS for the company website or a website not reachable via a second level domain under the .de TLD as a red flag. Assume to require a small German introduction telling the recipient to forward the English part to an English speaking colleague, preferably in the IT department, because the risk of hitting someone who can't understand your English application is quite large. [0]: https://www.handelsregister.de/ https://www.handelsregister.de/
• toddsiegel 8y ago
  > People don't have to say when they are working. This is a bad idea. People should not have to work all on the same schedule, but having some shared understanding of when people work or take time off is certainly a good thing.
  • ozten 8y ago
    I read this as "You don't constantly have to announce that you are working", maybe some copy editing would make the intent clearer.
    • toddsiegel 8y ago
      If you mean announcing every time you walk the dog, or run a quick errand, then sure, of course. I work remotely and keep regular hours. I communicate any major deviation from those hours. I’ve worked with people that keep super random hours. That is fine too, but they have to communicate some kind of expectations to the team. It’s super frustrating when they don’t. It becomes hard to manage if you’re directly depending on them for any reason.
  • joeax 8y ago
    I think it shouldn't be necessary, but people should do it as a courtesy. It's like a PTO calendar. It's just nice to know when people will be around, especially if your environment requires some collaboration.
    • giancarlostoro 8y ago
      A calendar or wth peoples preferred schedule under a specific time zone is would do wonders. If they ever need to deviate they can change it ahead of time and / or let everyone know through Slack. We do this at my job where we are in an office but we do have two or more remote only employees. Its easier for me to look in there and figure out why xyz is not in the office or Slack for the last 4 hours.
  • rhizome 8y ago
    having some shared understanding of when people work or take time off is certainly a good thing Could make a web page that is like an In/Out board[1], but looks at the person's git commits (plus Slack, etc.) to map out when they tend to be active. 1. https://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/Z-_Ntvfo5oz.JPG https://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/Z-_Ntvfo5oz.JPG
• allday 8y ago
  > Save on compensation due to hiring in lower cost regions Pay people what they're worth regardless of where they live. If you have a developer in Nigeria or Ukraine or Vietnam that is as equally capable as a developer in the Bay Area, they should be paid the same. Doing otherwise, at best, perpetuates Western hegemony, and at worst is simply racism.
  • sushisource 8y ago
    This is a bit ridiculous. It's not hegemony or racism. It's how markets work. People in those markets have fewer opportunities for highly paid employment. As a result, employers have more leverage in negotiations. It's as simple as that.
    • ludston 8y ago
      His is a moralistic argument. I expect he understands the mechanism at play here.
      • 52-6F-62 8y ago
        This is correct. Simplified, the counter argument appears to be: "If a company has the leverage in any capacity to exercise its dominance over a potential employee—to extract as much value from them at the lowest possible financial liability—it should in any case attempt to do so. It would be absurd to do otherwise." Personally, I can't abide by that—especially when the only basis is locale—and no matter if they bring the same value to the company as a local six-figure-salary employee.
        • ryan-allen 8y ago
          That's pretty much a company's MO no matter where you go. It's always about leverage and market forces. If an employer could pay you 75% less to do the same work they'd do it in a heartbeat. It's better to know the rules of the game otherwise you'll just end up being played.
• teachrdan 8y ago
  The list of disadvantages is missing perhaps the biggest one from a founder's perspective: The conventional wisdom is that remote companies don't get acquired. If a founder is even considering a big exit due to acquisition then a remote-only workforce is a non-starter. Same goes for investors with the same ambitions.
• eanzenberg 8y ago
  Its hard to have remote junior developers in my experience. Certain things are much easier explained in person than over conferencing software.
  • ghaff 8y ago
    Not a developer but a product manager in a previous life. Comms channels have changed a lot. But it's still really hard for me to imagine coming out of school into a remote position. Today, I'm great with being 90% remote (from home). But I can't really imagine starting out that way.
  • rob_b 8y ago
    I work with junior developers that are fully remote without any issues. We communicate via IM, Slack, email, and Skype as needed. Not sure how to do something, let’s have a quick screen share and we’ll work through it. Finished with your assigned feature, submit a pull request and I’ll leave comments accordingly or we’ll review it via a screen share. It’s not impossible to do but may require some to change their collaboration approach.
    • UlisesAC4 8y ago
      Exactly, remote working is not about tech expertise but more about effective communication.
  • jdgiese 8y ago
    We are a remote-only company (Innolitics.com), and have hired several junior developers. I think it is harder for them to get up to speed, but definitely still quite possible. Pair programming, video calls, and detailed PR reviews all help.
• optimalKEK 8y ago
  Here in France, we are not eligible to get state financial aid unless our programmers are in offices and have a college degree in CS.
• keithnz 8y ago
  I'd be interested to know some long term remote workers experiences with regards to interruptions. It's one of the things that I believe would be better. In many places I've worked I tend to become a "go to" person which results in many many interruptions, it doesn't make too much difference how much you write down, it's usually always quicker to just ask someone who you know knows the answer to whatever question you have. Remote working seems like it would put up just enough of a barrier that written information / async communication would be an easier go to?
  • mattnewport 8y ago
    My experience is that it's a lot better but that Slack can be the biggest remaining source of interruptions. I still struggle to find the balance between being sufficiently available on Slack and getting focused uninterrupted work done.
  • rob_b 8y ago
    My approach has been to encourage email communication and then I just periodically check my email. This allows me the ability to get in the zone without constant distractions, while still providing the ability to assist when needed. If it’s an absolute emergency then I can be reached via mobile. There are also times though that I will sign into our internal instant messaging system or Slack and will respond there as well. My current tasks tend to dictate how “available” I am.
  • jen729w 8y ago
    Ping! That's me. I've long been that "go-to" guy. I'm friendly, I like to help, and I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades. That's fine, it's my natural fit and I enjoy it. I've been working remotely (from home) for about 2 months now and my productivity is through the roof. It's astonishing. When I work 8 hours, I get ~6.5 hours productive work done. That feels like a theoretical maximum. In the office, 8 hours "at work" – read "in the building" – often felt like 2 or 3 hours of actual work, on a good day. You spend so much time in the office chatting to people, getting coffee, overhearing interesting conversations, waiting in a meeting room for people to turn up, waiting at the door for people to come to lunch, getting there in the first place, setting up, packing up. It's madness, really. (I'm in Melbourne, Australia. I think our work ethic is different to you Americans.) I'm lucky, my partner is also a freelancer. We wake up – often at 5am – and make a cup of tea and a slice of toast. "First breakfast." Half an hour later we're awake and we wander upstairs to the office. We put some ambient music on, or not. We knuckle down and work. Two hours later, sun's up, we make a coffee and have "second breakfast". :-) It's transformed how I live and work. I'm lucky in that my boss is an old friend and he trusts me absolutely. The work I'm doing is exclusively for him, so it's not a problem that I'm not around colleagues. We just use the phone or iMessage to communicate. We set a weekly rhythm so I don't have to tell him when I'm working; but, because he's a friend, if he calls and I'm not at my desk that's cool. I am in love with this situation. I can never go back.
• mey 8y ago
  From a legal/hr/pay role perspective, how do you hire full time around the world?
  • Barbie_GitLab 8y ago
    It is pretty complex, but we have some information in our handbook. https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/
    • otoburb 8y ago
      Gitlab, thank you for posting your handbook that can be reviewed transparently ahead of time by prospective hires. The complexity of hiring in various countries and jurisdictions is often completely under appreciated by anybody who hasn't had to set up or wind down an entity. GitLab's page[1] gives a flavour of the machinations required to for a legal entity that represents your company to process payroll and adhere to local and regional labour, tax and medical insurance regulations and practices. I'm very appreciate of companies committed to remote work, especially more so when they are receptive to hiring international staff due to the extra non-trivial administrative overhead required. [1] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...
• dopamean 8y ago
  This "manifesto" really clarified for me something that I've often noticed about people who strongly believe in remote working but had trouble putting to words. For a lot of people remote work is less about the actual remote aspect of it and more about the kind of relationship the employee has with their employer. It is a relationship where I think the employee is more empowered and freer to find a work life balance that satisfies them.
  • aspaceman 8y ago
    Precisely. And I think this is why many employers are also highly hesitant about remote work (at times). They don't necessarily want to give their employees that much power, but they lack the courage to say that directly. And instead you hear the criticism that it's less productive.
    • jaggederest 8y ago
      I agree. It's much less about productivity. I analyzed my commits at my last part-time-remote job, before I went full remote, and I was about 2x as productive during times when I was not at the office, even when accounting for the fact that I scheduled meetings during in-office days.
    • mseebach 8y ago
      You're asserting a kind of direct malicious intent that I don't think is fair. Certainly, remote work puts some demands on the manager that a bad manager won't be able to handle. If anything, it's an unwillingness to confront this inability. But remote work also puts very high demand on the workers: they have to be very conscientious, self-motivated and proactive and effective communicators. Everybody know slackers who are not pulling their weights, and who would slack even harder if given the "power". The idea that "working from home" could be a euphemism for a half day+ off did not gestate out of the blue in a mean-spirited managers head. A classically managed working environment can mitigate a lot of this in a way remote environments can't. A successful remote working environment requires a particular non-average grade of manager and employee.
    • speleding 8y ago
• jasonkester 8y ago
  Selects for self starting people The article has the arrow causality backwards on this one, and it describes the biggest pitfall with remote work: you absolutely need to seek out and only hire people who will find things to do and work around problems on their own, rather than waiting for instruction from above. That describes a surprisingly small subset of employees. School trains you for the age of four to take instructions from the person in charge, act, then wait for more instructions. You can make it all the way to retirement on many career tracks without ever deviating from that pattern. It does not work at all in a remote organisation.
• m0sa 8y ago
  some thoughts about remote work at Stack Overflow [0] [0]: https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/29/making-remote-work-behind-scenes/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/29/making-remote-work-beh...
• Barbie_GitLab 8y ago
  When joining any company, I recommend understanding the values, culture, and work environment. It is not one size fits all. You should ensure that you would enjoy working with the people, values, and environment you are joining. Remote work may not be for everyone, and doesn't need to be, however it can be wonderful! It has been life-changing for me and my family. My son's math scores have gone up 30% since joining GitLab, because I now have time in the afternoon to dedicate to helping with his homework, before he's exhausted after his latest sports game/practice. That is just one example of how it has impacted my life, but there are many more. I'm home for dinner. I have more time for my friends, but I also have more time for work (I had a 3 hour commute before GitLab). My health has improved. I am happier. At GitLab, we take steps to make remote work successful. In addition to our daily "social" call together, we also enable our team members to rent space at a co-working facility (we work, for example), or work from anywhere with an internet connection if that is preferable for them. It is not unusual for my teammates to see me taking Video conferencing calls from the beach. It has been proven that humans do their best thinking surrounded by nature, and I try to take advantage of that. I love the freedom that remote work gives me and my fellow team members. But I agree that we must always be thinking about how to maximize the benefits of this arrangement and decrease the downsides. If you are willing to put in the effort, which includes changing the way you work and communicate, as asynchronous communication is required to make remote work successful, it can be very rewarding. I don't feel that I have less human contact, I feel that I have more but different contact. I definitely get more direct time with my friends and family, but I also get to know more people at work. In an office building, I tended to only spend time with those who sat near me or interacted regularly with me. Occasionally it ventured out passed that if I joined the SCUBA group, or something similar. At GitLab, our team calls, our meetings, and our summits allow me to get to know people from around the world that I would have never had the opportunity to learn from before. We have different experiences and perspectives and it is fascinating! If you know that remote work isn't for you, that you love decisions being made in hallways vs. organized communication, for example, then it is great that you know that. The wonderful thing is that there are many companies conducting their business in different ways, that we should all be able to find the one that matches our needs and values. I'm thrilled to have found a company that matches my needs, to balance wellness, work, family, and friends, while making an impact in our industry. If you are at a remote company and feel that things could be done better, I hope that they are willing to hear your recommendations. I wouldn't give up on the model without trying to make it work. If you work at GitLab and have recommendations, I'm happy to hear them!
• JamyDev 8y ago
  Didn't see anyone top level mention it, but: Disadvantages -> Timezones Timezones make scheduling team meetings hard, and if your organization ever becomes big enough to warrant a physical office people far away will start working late hours to keep up with the main office. YMMV, but it's 3 AM here in Berlin and until 10 minutes ago I was still actively working.
  • rmgraham 8y ago
    I've been full-time remote for just shy of 5 years and timezones is definitely an issue. Up to 4 hour difference is sustainable indefinitely, 8 hours can be with the right people (doing split days is great for this), but beyond 8 hours and the amount of effort required for synchronous communication (video calls) causes it to not happen and the team loses cohesion. You need the synchronous communication to have non-work conversations, and you need those non-work conversations to develop and maintain the relationships required (trust, rapport, etc.) for remote work. > if your organization ever becomes big enough to warrant a physical office ...then you probably don't have enough buy-in to be a fully remote company and that is far harder to work around than timezones.
  • m1keil 8y ago
    Depends on the team. In Operations, timezone differences can be quite good since it allows you "follow the sun" type of on-call shifts.
  • spraak 8y ago
    > YMMV, but it's 3 AM here in Berlin and until 10 minutes ago I was still actively working. Sounds like an unhealthy implementation. I've worked 12 hours apart from a main office for 3 years and never worked past my local business hours.
  • billysielu 8y ago
    Not having meetings sounds like a benefit to me.
  • pmlnr 8y ago
    > scheduling team meetings See written & async first communication. Mailing lists work for things like linux kernel development.
• rwbcxrz 8y ago
  > Fast internet everywhere - 100Mb/s+ cable, 5GHz Wifi, 4G cellular I used to say that. Now I live in a rural area, and the fastest speed that's even available is 5Mbps (and the uptime isn't great). My house also has zero cell service from any provider. It's also a bit presumptive that everyone can afford a 100Mbps connection. The last place I lived, it was like $120/month for 100Mbps. Not everybody can afford that. That being said, has anyone out there come up with creative solutions for working remotely on a crappy connection?
  • shkkmo 8y ago
    It may not fit your use case, but I found Speedify to be a great boon when dealing with working remotely over crappy wifi with 3g cellular. It's a VPN type app than can split your packets between two connections (e.g WiFi and my phone tethered via Bluetooth) for increased bandwidth or can send all packets over both connections to assist with lost packets or inconsistent latency.
  • jnmandal 8y ago
    1. A lot of places that are remote will cover or subsidize internet costs for employees 2. I think the the poor access to Internet in rural areas is more of a US thing. In LDCs we have often wider availability for low cost 4g and/or more equal distribution of telecom infrastructure in general.
    • jasonkester 8y ago
      You have misunderstood. The grandparent is not saying that fast internet is expensive. He’s saying that there is simply no way of attaining it at his house for any price. That describes a lot of places in the developed world. My little farming town in rural France, as well as the medium sized City in England where I lived previously.
      • NullPrefix 8y ago
        >no way of attaining it at his house for any price I bet Amazon jungle doesn't have gbit internet either. The question is whether OP chose a location without internet knowingly or he was cut off and left stranded.
• randiantech 8y ago
  Another fantastic remote only company is Moon Studios, the creators of Ori And The Blind Forest.
• randiantech 8y ago
  Anorher fantastic remote only company is Moon Studios, the creators of Ori And The Blind Forest.
• relaunched 8y ago
  The details notwithstanding; I work for a F50 and my wife works for Gitlab. I was a tad bit skeptical at first (and I'm the one that encouraged her to apply). But watching her go through it, remote only is quickly becoming much more appealing - at least the way Gitlab does it.
• binora 8y ago
  what do you look for in a candidate when hiring for a remote position ? I am 3 years experienced dev and cant even get my resume filtered for first round. I do have 3 months of remote Gsoc experience if that counts. But i am curious, is there some particular factor that gives an edge over other candidates ?
  • rmgraham 8y ago
    One of the benefits listed in the manifesto (and often touted elsewhere) is that you are not limited to a specific region when hiring. Unfortunately, what this means for candidates is they may have to compete with a LOT more people. Another challenge you're likely facing is that a lot of companies are only willing to hire senior developers to work remotely because hesitant upper management thinks they will be more trustworthy (completely ignoring the level of trust inherent in having someone write code for them when they themselves can't even verify it). That negativity aside, here's some advice: As much as there is some backlash around the idea of a GitHub profile being mandatory, one VERY practical use of an open source portfolio of some kind is that almost all open source project work is done remotely using the very same skills required for successful remote employment. This applies even more so to non-programming contributions, in my opinion, which means you don't even need to contribute code to demonstrate these skills.
• purplezooey 8y ago
  This is good but impractical. Many workplaces are full of jackasses who don't care about the rules, and are not going to take the extra effort of saving a screenshot to meeting notes to help out the remote guy/people. Instead this person will happily subtly disadvantage the remote people just because it makes him/her look one shade better. There are lots of these types out there, i.e. those that think middle school politics is the name of the game. So manifestos like this are of little practical value.
  • mattnewport 8y ago
    I think this site is aimed at remote only / remote first companies where this particular problem should be less of an issue.
• desireco42 8y ago
  This is not just 'remote only' but has other good practices as writing down requirements and processes. This is exceptionally healthy approach, even if you have local employees. It prevents silos and people undermining other people's work. Great manifesto.
• Shank 8y ago
  My biggest problem is this: While there is a surplus of remote only positions, this surplus always wants the same thing: very senior developers with tons of wide experience sets. Seems like there's a lot of talent being left on the floor by only looking for senior developers. There's a lot of goodwill that can be earned by trusting in potential and helping candidates grow into a position. Even an experienced developer in one set of languages and frameworks is junior to others -- and they can't get the foot in the door anywhere remotely. The "years of experience" drought is real, but I feel like it's an eternal desert for remote work.
  • UlisesAC4 8y ago
    That is something bad at our industry. Managers or whoever do that decision believes that being senior automagically makes you a genious, when it can be the other way around, the more senior you are, the more averse to change you are. I doubt that senior could easily change to remote lifestyle after years of onsite. People must learn that anyone can be remote, the thing is that everyone must agree to communicate better instead of more.
    • TeMPOraL 8y ago
      > the more senior you are, the more averse to change you are. I doubt that senior could easily change to remote lifestyle after years of onsite. Why not? Going from on-site to remote is strictly easier, as the only thing it needs is to stop leaving home every morning. I don't get this "the more senior you are, the more averse to change you are" - the only thing I've seen is older people having higher expectations and less tolerance for abuse and working for pie-in-the-sky promises of future wealth. But maybe my bias is showing, I'm nearing 30, so pretty old by software industry standards.
    • IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
      LOL. What makes someone senior? What are the advantages that being senior brings to the job at hand? Should we all be non-senior instead so that we have no experience or skills formed? Change is a part of life. You are going to get older and then die. Too often, technology firms worship youth at the expense of experience. In any case, youth ages and then it is your turn in the box, being lectured by the next generation about how averse to change YOU are. sigh.
• superfrank 8y ago
  Honestly, I find it a bit weird so much of this blog post focus on making all information visible and documenting everything (which I agree with) and then there is: > People don't have to say when they are working. That just seems a bit at odds with the rest of the post and I don't really agree with it. Sometimes there are questions that only one person (let's say Nick) can answer or situations where Nick is more valuable than other employees. Let's say I've got a moderately time sensitive issue and I'm pretty sure Kevin knows the answer as he's an expert in the subject, alternatively, I could pull aside Bob, Joe, and Linda and we could probably figure it out after a little while. Knowing when Nick will be back online plays a big factor in what I chose to do next. If Nick is offline for lunch and will be back in an hour, I'll wait for Nick. If Nick started work early and is now offline for a long weekend, well then I need to pull Bob, Joe, and Linda away from their work to help me. Having at least a general idea of when people will be available seems like it'd be even more important in a situation where I can't ask the people around me, "Has anyone seen Nick today?"
  • varenc 8y ago
    If all information is visible and everything is well documented, it should be rare to have the situation where one person is the only one that can answer that question. This will totally still happen for remote teams, but I think it happens more in other organizations that rely on face time and verbal information exchange. I still generally agree that knowing when folks are online can be helpful and don’t see a big issue with that as long as you don’t have a culture that starts measuring people by how many hours they put in. Rather than an upfront “I will be working today from X to Y” something passive like a Slack recent activity indicator could be enough.
    • superfrank 8y ago
      > If all information is visible and everything is well documented, it should be rare to have the situation where one person is the only one that can answer that question. This will totally still happen for remote teams, but I think it happens more in other organizations that rely on face time and verbal information exchange. I worked at my last job for just over 2 1/2 years and, while we had an actual office, for the first two years I was there, we also had a true "unlimited vacation/remote work" policy. It wasn't unheard of that some people would take 4-6 week vacations and others would work remote for multiple months. Documentation was great, but you can't document everything you know, so there will always be gaps. I'm a developer, so these will be dev focused, but some scenarios I can remember where one specific person was needed are: - Legacy code. Bob was the only one around when this code was written and it hasn't been touched in years, now it's breaking and no one understands why. (In an ideal world, there wouldn't be knowledge silos like this, but there always are) - Specialties. Most developers know this tool, but Bob is an expert. We need to do something that requires an expert. We need Bob. - Bob left an ominous, yet vague comment on my PR. I don't want to merge until I get clarification. (something like "This looks hacky. I guess it works, but we should probably change this ASAP." or "Eww")
• jimejim 8y ago
  I've worked mostly remote for over 20 years, both as an engineer and a business owner. I wouldn't give it up for the world. However, simple fact: not all people are cut out for it. Some perfectly fine engineers are better in an office environment with other people. Sometimes an office environment is LESS distracting for those people, not more. It also depends on where they are in life: A person with toddlers is going to have a better work life if they can get away occasionally. I had my own struggles with this and had to work through the new environment. So, both are good and can work depending on when and where your life is at, and neither is perfect.
  • danpalmer 8y ago
    I completely agree with this. Probably due to being much earlier in my career, I haven't yet learnt how to separate my personal life from my work life well. I use the office and my commute to form a boundary, which works very well so I have a good work life balance, but as soon as I work from home I either get much less done, or I get much more done and have no free time. I hope to improve at this, in 10 years time (when I hope to own a house/have a family/etc) I'd hope that I'm working from home 1-2 days a week _every week_, but I'm not there yet.
    • lagadu 8y ago
      I've been working remotely for the past half year (same job and same place, I just started doing it remotely) and I was a little afraid of that: mixing my personal and professional time. For me at least it turns out that the fear was completely unfounded, before I always got in at roughly the same time and always left at the same time, leaving the laptop and phone on the office. Now while technically the laptop and phone are always accessible I've found that I've no problem in keeping my working time within a very strict schedule, normally I start at ~8.00 and usually at 16.00 almost exactly I'm logging out, plus the phone goes automatically into do not disturb mode until the following morning, effectively recreating my office working routine. Your mileage may vary of course but I was surprised at how easy it was to completely separate my activities and preventing them blending together.
    • jimejim 8y ago
• megaman22 8y ago
  I've loved it, in the past when circumstances dictated it; I would love to make it the normal mode. I get so much more done. I think the optimal distribution in one day in office, allocated to organizational work and planning and meetings, and four off-site to actually do the work. Being "in the office" is mostly a waste of time for deep work that actually produces results. The only thing being in the office I've found is better is feather-smoothing, and honestly, that actually works better async, if you have people that can work async.
• itaysk 8y ago
  Observation: This almost completely conflicts with the agile manifesto. Opinion: As an architect I feel that f2f whiteboard and brainstorming sessions are invaluable. But for a dev working on a feature, it might be better to seclude. This is just an example to say that we will never find a policy that works for everyone company-wide and world-wide. The company should do it's best to accommodate it's employees' work style, for them to be productive and happy. As for remote, I think it should be embraced, not enforced.
  • megaman22 8y ago
    The best thing is a mix. When you're figuring out if an idea will even work, you need time to dick around with it and try things to see if it is even possible. Once you know the possibilities, talking it over in person and drawing pictures helps disseminate knowledge and iron out rough spots. Then you go finish the work. One of those needs and benefits from collaboration, the others, it actively hinders
  • sime2009 8y ago
    Oddly enough, I've worked with people who are agile/scrum fanatics and remote work fanatics at the same time. Good times... no, I seriously take that back, it was terrible.
• a13n 8y ago
  > Working long hours or weekends is not encouraged nor celebrated. What does this have to do with building a remote-only company? Different companies have different cultures, and that's okay. Would Uber be nearly as successful if they were fully remote? Maybe. Would Uber be nearly as successful without a long hours culture? I'm highly skeptical.
• hellofunk 8y ago
  > Fast internet everywhere - 100Mb/s+ cable Now that made me laugh out loud. This author must live in a nice bubble to think that.
  • a13n 8y ago
    I was in Seoul last week. I had 400Mb/s on my phone... It's devastating how far behind some first-world countries are in data infrastructure.
    • hellofunk 8y ago
      Seoul is not everywhere. South Korea is quite technologically advanced. Try doing more traveling in SE Asia, you’ll see how bad it can be.
      • a13n 8y ago
        We actually spent three months in Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines and also had a fabulous experience with cell data.
        • hellofunk 8y ago
          You will typically find cell data to be better than cable or land connections in nearly all the countries you mentioned. But remote developers don't typically work off cell data; your data limit will get hit very quickly. Philippines in particular has terrible internet connections for homes, in general. In fact in many places, cell data is the only data available, there are no land connections.
  • mjrbrennan 8y ago
    I was thinking the same thing, he must not live in Australia where the government has absolutely shattered most people's chances of getting 100MB/s+ cable in the next 10-20 years.
• andreagrandi 8y ago
  "Save on compensation due to hiring in lower cost regions" - just NO! Sink it, please!
• jaaron 8y ago
  The "remote only" movement would do itself a huge favor if: 1) Advocates didn't dismiss the real disadvantages as merely things other people are "scared of" 2) A recognition that optimizing personal productivity doesn't always mean success for a team, product or business
  • megaman22 8y ago
    1) Is entirely the introvert/extrovert divide, that extrovert management and busybodies decry
• perlpimp 8y ago
  you need to be in physical proximity to your co-worker only if you need to smell them.
• pimmen 8y ago
  As far as I understand it, Lightbend (the maintainers of Scala and Akka) is also a remote only workplace with developers working around the world.
• soupdiver 8y ago
  The page you're looking for could not be found.
• coldGreySky 8y ago
  Sounds very naive to be really honest.. working random hours without any info for your peers when you are avilable to consult is counter productive, I've witnessed project holdups too many times because someone decided to come late or really early. I also see no real way for manager/sup to know when someone is slacking off and maintain discipline. Cant really see any compamy thriving on such model.
• Vino21 8y ago
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• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• Tade0 8y ago
  Nitpicking, but it's something I've seen in many other places: Why is the emphasis on the word "over" instead of the alternatives, which seem to be the focus here? Example: Flexible working hours over set working hours. Why not: Flexible working hours over set working hours.
• zerostar07 8y ago
  The usual skepticism from HN comes up whenever telecommuting is brought up. However, it was tech's promise. I think people should be asking how to fix its problems rather than nagging that it "doesn't work for me". But maybe i'm biased as an indie dev.
  • skohan 8y ago
    What do you work on as an indie dev?
• nvarsj 8y ago
  My somewhat reductive conclusion about remote work is that it boils down to the ability to be an effective writer. If you're not good at written communication, or you work with people who are not good at it, remote work will be miserable. People who are not highly fluent in the company's written language or those with some level of dyslexia will struggle. Also some people get frustrated with the more analytic approach required by text, relying instead on spoken rhetoric. I think even if you're colocated, there are huge benefits to following the remote work practices and improving your written communication. Documenting your work in an issue manager and using chat primarily for communication means no one will miss out, even if someone is sick, a new starter, or on a different team. All these things can make a dev organisation much more effective and break down silos.
  • minipci1321 8y ago
    > it boils down to the ability to be an effective writer. effective reader too. One should be able to quickly make sense out of several hunbdreds of email messages, otherwise it will end up in "synchronous mode" -- dozen of messaging windows opened at every moment.
    • amorphous 8y ago
      so true. I have a business partner that I can talk to very effective in person. I had to relocate, and now we have to deal mostly via email. I have been working remotely for ten years now and saw no problem with the change. But it has become disastrous. I figured out that he is just not an "email type". Only picking up the phone works with him, but this does not fit into my workflow. I'm undoing our business partnership currently.
      • throwawaymath 8y ago
        Why doesn't picking up a phone fit into your workflow?
        • amorphous 8y ago
• SigmundA 8y ago
  Doesn't seem to be much discussion about the environmental impact of remote work. Lately I have been feeling how ridiculous it is for me to drive everyday to a office and sit at a computer then drive home. So inefficient from an energy usage perspective. I see so many jobs that could easily be remote if people could deal with the issues outlined here. Imagine the difference in traffic and office space if every job that could be remote was. I would think the environmental impact would be huge. In a utopian view I could see us returning to small villages as there is no need to move to the city. You could live in smaller communities wherever you like with others you get along with in person. High speed internet has made this possible, but it seem like we have just scratched the surface of how it could change society and the planet.
  • zerostar07 8y ago
    Co-working spaces could be a big deal if they catch up (i.e. if real estate prices drop enough so they can be affordable to everyone). They would create small "commercial" regions around them with a small scale economy around them, and that could be transformative for neighborhoods.
  • rolae 8y ago
    There is a company in Switzerland that is trying to get companies stop having their own offices, instead offer to employees the possibility to work in their local town / village in coworking spaces that they connect to the network. To work at home is not for everyone, it can be lonely, you might not have an extra rooms to use as an office. So with their still the employer paying for your office and for all the infrastructure you need. http://www.villageoffice.ch/en/the-coworking-network/ http://www.villageoffice.ch/en/the-coworking-network/
  • devit 8y ago
    Cities are essential for social life since an abundance of social events, potential friends and sexual partners means that you'll be able to choose ones that you like more (or even have some as opposed to none). The effect of remote work is instead that it no longer matters as much in which city you live, as long as it is large enough.
  • 8y ago
• vemv 8y ago
  I prefer http://asyncmanifesto.org/ http://asyncmanifesto.org/ which is subtler and more concise. Also doesn't feel like just some individual's POV. I don't see myself sharing https://www.remoteonly.org/ https://www.remoteonly.org/ as it can easily look scary to employers.
• ptero 8y ago
  IMO first and foremost remote teams require good management (it helps all teams, but in remote teams it is critical): someone who will enable remote work, weed out people who spend most of their time non-productively and translate his management demands into requests that fit the workflow and schedule of his remote team. This is a rare (and often underappreciated) skill. But until more people have it, remote work will be limited (statistically) to non-critical components and small parts of teams. My 2c.
• cup-of-tea 8y ago
  Wow it really seems like I should be doing remote work. This is the exactly how I'd like work to be, in particular the emphasis on written communication. I've been trying to make the company I work at more like this but it's proving a losing battle. It turns out that what I really want is simply a remote job.
• nikhildaga 8y ago
  "People don't have to say when they are working" We are a remote only company and don't agree with this at all. People should have flexible working hours but others must know when they are working. It removes confusion and sets clear expectations.
• thatsnopine 8y ago
  app'd
• saltycraig 8y ago
  Serious question: how does this not just become a race to the bottom salary/compensation-wise the same way other remote sites like upwork have become? If I have to compete with others from all over the world who will settle for a lot less salary-wise, how do I even compete at all? I've got several years of programming experience, but I've never been able to secure jobs through sites like upwork because I'm unwilling to lower my rate to minimum-wage levels when I have a family and a desire to eat.
• HarmlessHacker 8y ago
  Does anyone know of any open source/free + preferably self-hosted applications for remote technical support on residential networks. (Users not on LAN) Thanks in advance!
• msaltz 8y ago
  Most of the comments on here relate to aspects of remote work and its limitations, but I haven’t seen anyone say what seems obvious to me - Having an office is nice! It’s good for me to have a place that my brain associates exclusively with work. It’s nice to interact with teammates in person. If I need quiet time or even if the weather is nice and I don’t feel like going into the office, I can go work from a cafe somewhere. I certainly see the appeal of remote work, but to me, having an office with the option of working from home is preferable.
• bendixso 8y ago
  LOL Disadvantage: "The need to prepare food." Are we talking about generally existing as a human being? Yeah, until they invent food replicators you're gonna have to prepare your own food. Get used to it. I'd say getting to use your own kitchen to prepare your own delicious and nutritious meals is one of the prime advantages of remote work. It saves you way more money over going out to eat, and it's a much more healthy alternative to blindly trusting a restaurant or some food service company like Sysco. Then again, I am a bit of a maverick in that I make all of my lunches at home, even when I have an office I must travel to for work. You can do your entire week in advance on a Sunday evening, spending less than $30. Not. A. Hardship. We really should push back against the catered meals and supposed "perks." That's money the company could have spent on increasing your salary or paying a higher dividend to shareholders. Instead of doing that, they've decided they're going to spend your money on an army of chefs to keep you at the office 24/7. I'll take the higher pay, greater freedom and autonomy, and my own home cooked meals, thank you much.
  • darkstar999 8y ago
    > The need to prepare food I'm wondering if that one came from the perspective of those big campuses like Google who have free cafeterias for their employees? Fairly weak point either way.
  • Felz 8y ago
    I assume catering food for your employees is tax advantaged.
    • bendixso 8y ago
      Yaaay government deciding it's better for my employer to pay a food service provider instead of just paying me directly.
  • OJFord 8y ago
    I think it's an intended joke; a dual of "home food" in the advantages. (Unless you, or someone else contributed that after reading and before I did, of course...)
• JTbane 8y ago
  Question for remote workers: how do you deal with the innate need for managers to know that you are busy?: i.e. that you're not just more or less slacking off for a salary.
  • IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
    Managers should just be concerned that the tasks and goals assigned to their staff are being worked on, that they will be delivered on time based on a mutually agreed upon schedule. Communication (verbal, written, predictive based on data analysis) is key. Being "busy" should never be the point, getting things done should be.
  • organsnyder 8y ago
    Managers need to monitor output rather than time worked. Even if my colleague is able to get the same work done in half the time as me, we should still be treated the same. Peer review also goes a long way. Your colleagues—onsite or remote—have a pretty good sense of both the quantity and quality of your output.
  • sampleinajar 8y ago
    It was explained to me when starting my current remote position that they didn't care how I got things done as long as they got done, and that I was expected to reasonably be available during normal local working hours and respond to communications in a timely manner. It might seem a bit vague, but it has worked well. Basically if someone emails me from my team I respond as quickly as I can. Also, Levels of Effort don't change because I am remote, so there is already a common understanding how long things take. Not having a jerk for a boos helps too.
• peacetreefrog 8y ago
  I think the key (and very appealing thing to me and a lot of people) is: The results of work over the hours put in. It also relates to the the idea of saying whether you're working or not. If you're producing great results, it shouldn't matter when/how/how much time it takes you to do it (provided maybe people can get ahold of you in an emergency). But I also seems like the key to this working is being willing to get rid of people that aren't meeting that high bar (whether weren't up to snuff or weren't because they weren't putting in enough time). I think most organizations are unwilling/uncomfortable holding people to this high of standard on outputs, and so measure inputs (40 hours, at least not looking like you're slacking off) instead. Charlie Munger tells a story about Fedex and how they needed to move all their packages around different planes every night in one central location. They had a team of workers to do it, but they were having trouble getting the work finished on time and keeping people motivated. Eventually they decided -- instead of paying people by the hour -- to just pay them the same thing no matter how long it took (per shift), and let everyone go home when they were done. Lo and behold the night teams got their packages moved around much faster and and made just as much money and Fedex was able to deliver better and quicker everyone was happy.
  • maxxxxx 8y ago
    "Eventually they decided -- instead of paying people by the hour -- to just pay them per shift, and let everyone go home when they were done. Lo and behold that worked and the night teams got their packages moved around much faster and made just as much money and everyone was happy." The problem is that such a situation is often not stable. The next boss will come in and think "these guys work only 5 hours so I either hire less people or give them more work".
• icedchai 8y ago
  anyone every try to juggle more than one remote job simultaneously? seems feasible...
• laurex 8y ago
  I work for a remote team and we have a huge advantage in that what we build is a video communication app, much like video texting. So while we do spend some time in Slack, we also can easily communicate with video, which conveys nuance and allows us to feel more connected, plus see things like bugs very easily. It's not really designed for business use, but it's definitely handy for any remote team.
• xadhix 8y ago
  Just curious. Why does the site's title have HTML in it? Bug or feature? :)
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• ommunist 8y ago
  I made an experiment, over 12 months I always answered to recruiters on LinkedIN that I only accept remote work proposals. No one ever returned.
• elbrujohalcon 8y ago
  The title of this html page is it's own html source. Is that intentional?
• dennisgorelik 8y ago
  > Asynchronous communication over synchronous communication. I think it is a mistake to try to bundle "remote" work with "asynchronous" work. These are orthogonal things.