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Ford to Stop Selling Every Car in North America but the Mustang and Focus Active
- tomohawk 8y agoMake sense since it's basically illegal to sell large luxury cars anymore, and light trucks are the new luxury vehicle.
- perl4ever 8y agoIt's basically illegal to sell large luxury cars? What about the: -Toyota Avalon -Lexus ES -Lexus GS -Lexus LS -Audi A6 -Audi A7 -Audi A8 -BMW 5 series -BMW 6 series -BMW 7 series -Nissan Maxima -Hyundai Genesis G90 -Tesla Model S -Mercedes CLS class -Mercedes E class -Mercedes S class -Cadillac CT6 -Cadillac CTS -Cadillac XTS -Lincoln Continental -Acura RLX -Porsche Panamera -Jaguar XJ -Maserati Quattroporte -Infiniti Q70
- blhack 8y ago>Ford sees 90 percent of its North America portfolio in trucks, utilities and commercial vehicles. They mean "cars" to be interpreted as "small cars" like the taurus. Or maybe they mean it to be interpreted as "vehicles", and this is clickbait.
- rasz 8y ago~2 ton Ford Taurus a small car ;----)
- tropo 8y agoIt has a small interior. When I tried Ford sedans at a dealer last summer, the Taurus had the least head room. The others were bad too; it seems modern cars have shrunk. I had a Taurus from the 1980s and it was fine.
- sangnoir 8y ago> The others were bad too; it seems modern cars have shrunk. Modern American cars. To my untrained eyes, it looks like a common design language in American cars is to lower the roof and sometimes simultaneously raising the body (exemplified by the Chrysler 300). This leads to very limited fields of views - rear windows are almost vestigial at this point. After driving a Charger, being in a Prius feels like you're driving an all-glass car with panoramic views.
- perl4ever 8y agoI agree with you up until you posit the Prius as a counter example. It caught my eye that you mention rear windows in particular - do you really think a Prius has good visibility behind? I test drove the new Honda Clarity and it similarly has questionable rear visibility because of the aerodynamic hatchback shape's rear windows. One car that is commonly cited as an example of good visibility is a Subaru Forester, although I haven't driven one to see. Something I noticed while driving a 30 year old car with spectacularly good visibility is that one factor is the skinny A and B-pillars compared to modern cars. I imagine that might be related to (lack of) rollover protection, not to mention airbags.
- sangnoir 8y ago> do you really think a Prius has good visibility behind? No, I wouldn't say it has good rear visibility, objectively. However, my statement was explicitly comparative, and I think the Prius has better all-round visibility than a Dodge Charger.
- perl4ever 8y agoI haven't driven a Charger, so maybe you're right. Based on test driving both the current generation Prius and the last one, and looking at the Charger, it would surprise me though. The most annoying thing about my 2016 Honda Accord coupe is the massive A- and B-pillar blind spots. It's got one of the rare all-around 5 star ratings for crash tests, including rollover, and has lots of airbags, so of course you can't have everything. I don't think I ever notice any issue with the rear window.
- Shivetya 8y agoClickbait? Taurus is their full size sedan. The PDF linked in the story points out that the Fiesta which their subcompact, the Fusion which is their midsize, and Taurus, are not getting refreshes. Now when the model cycle runs out I did not find. If anything it represents the legacy of their prior CEO's failure to keep Ford competitive in that segment. 2017 they sold over 200k of the Fusion and 150k of the Focus. the profit margin on SUV and trucks has always been higher. They sold over 300k Escapes which is a small SUV and over 270k Explorers which is fairly large. Maybe after all the years under Fields they decided they needed something radical to move the company forward. Like about every other manufacturer they plan on more EVs by 2020 but the big rollouts are not till 2022
- digikata 8y agoSo is Ford taking the next few design cycles for IC sedans and putting them into EVs - sedans or other forms?
- illirik 8y agoNo; they're taking the next few design cycles for IC sedans and putting them into IC crossovers. It's what people want to buy right now - they're keeping the Mustang, a car bought primarily by people who would never buy a crossover, and the most crossover-like version of one of their hatchbacks.
- tssva 8y agoThey meant car to be interpreted as Ford, the subject of the article, interprets car. Ford classifies their non-commercial vehicles into 3 categories. Trucks/vans, SUVs/crossovers and cars. It is the line up of what Ford considers cars that is getting reduced.
- Lionsion 8y agoDidn't the US auto industry make this same mistake before? Gas was ~$1/gallon in the 90s, so they neglected everything to focus on the (truck-based) SUVs that were then popular and profitable. Then gas prices went up and they were totally unprepared.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- vvanders 8y agoYup. Although they're rolling out a half-ton diesel F150 which will help a bit. Still I'd wager that most people who buy one rarely put it to use. The number of commuters in the city I see with F150s/1500s/etc is pretty staggering.
- jjeaff 8y agoSince that time, the gas mileage on an f-150 has gone from around 15-16mpg up to as high as 22 mpg. So they have that going for them.
- flubert 8y agoOnly tangentially related, but at the ARPA-E Summit this year, there was a company demonstrating an opposed cylinder, 2-stroke, compression ignition engine that they had placed in an F-150 as a test bed. They were claiming something like 37 MPG. https://www.energy.gov/articles/transformative-tech-2018-arpa-e-energy-innovation-summit https://www.energy.gov/articles/transformative-tech-2018-arp...
- ericd 8y agoWas it less polluting than most other 2 stroke engines? Because they're generally horrible polluters compared to 4 stroke engines.
- flubert 8y agoThat is the claim anyway. http://achatespower.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/JSAE_s171308_API_2017.pdf http://achatespower.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/JSAE_s171... http://achatespower.com/ http://achatespower.com/
- venning 8y agoThis refers to sedans and coupes, excluding crossovers, trucks, SUVs, and commercial vehicles. But it does appear they will create new "silhouettes" between cars and crossovers. From the Press Release [1]: > Building a winning portfolio and focusing on products and markets where Ford can win. For example, by 2020, almost 90 percent of the Ford portfolio in North America will be trucks, utilities and commercial vehicles. Given declining consumer demand and product profitability, the company will not invest in next generations of traditional Ford sedans for North America. Over the next few years, the Ford car portfolio in North America will transition to two vehicles – the best-selling Mustang and the all-new Focus Active crossover coming out next year. The company is also exploring new “white space” vehicle silhouettes that combine the best attributes of cars and utilities, such as higher ride height, space and versatility. [1] https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2018/04/25/1q18-financials.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America... EDIT: The press release from which all this interest is coming may only refer to Ford North America's development goals. Ford Europe is almost a different company and is responsible for most (all?) of the Focus and Fiesta's development. Perhaps Ford NA will stop bringing new sedans/coupes to market (excepting Mustang and Active) and simply import the smaller vehicles.
- snowwrestler 8y ago> vehicle silhouettes that combine the best attributes of cars and utilities, such as higher ride height, space and versatility Subaru has been successful in this zone for decades. In fact I'd hazard to say that they set the standard for this and would be the point of comparison if Ford launches a model like that.
- nsx147 8y agoAren't they rolling out a new Ford Ranger??
- SwellJoe 8y agoRanger is a truck. Ford isn't cutting down on the number of truck models they sell.
- beamatronic 8y agoIndeed, they are focusing on their core competencies ala Jack Welch/GE
- moolcool 8y agoThat's a truck, not a "car" as defined in OP
- mmanfrin 8y agoTitle is misleading and borderline clickbait -- they use 'car' to mean sedan. Ford will still sell SUVs and trucks.
- unethical_ban 8y agoWhen talking vehicle categories, a truck is not a car.
- mmanfrin 8y agoIn common parlance it is. When I google 'cars for sale', trucks and SUVs come up.
- s17n 8y ago"Car" is the natural and correct word to use in the sentence, I don't find it clickbaity.
- edtechdev 8y agoIt's techcrunch
- drhousejr 8y agoagreed -- misleading title. Should read "..Stop Selling Sedans"
- trumped 8y agoSame for me... from the title I thought that Ford went completely crazy but after reading the article, it doesn't seem so bad.
- shmed 8y agoMy understanding from this article is that Ford will continue to sell SUVs, Trucks and Crossovers. They are only decreasing the size of their "Sedan" portfolio. Basically they are discontinuing those vehicules : Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, C-Max and Taurus. They are keeping everything else (including F-150, Mustang, Explorer, Escape, Bronco) as well as adding a new "Ford Active" car.
- caoilte 8y agoAnd even then they're only discontinuing in America. They just launched a new Fiesta in Europe.
- rajacombinator 8y agoSounds like a rare intelligent move from the legacy car industry.
- derekp7 8y agoThis is very disappointing. I really love the Fusion hybrid (close to 50 MPG on mine, very smooth ride and good low-end off-the-line torque due to the electric). I was really hoping they would do a plug-in version that got more than 21 miles on a charge in the next 10 years (when I'll be due for another car).
- jsgo 8y agoAgreed. I think looks wise, Fusion has been one of the better of their offerings (granted, didn’t love the switch to the blimp looking/rounded grill). I’d think it would make sense to keep the Fusion line.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoAny reason you wouldn’t go with an all electric vehicle at that point?
- Someone1234 8y agoCost? Hybrids are ballpark $10K cheaper than electric. For example the Ford Fusion Hybrid starts at $25,390 and Prius V at $26,675, the only fully electric vehicle at that price point is the Smart ForTwo electric drive, but the ForTwo Electric has a terrible 58 mile range, only two seats, missing quality of life features, and arguably poor fit & finish (similar to a $13K new car level). A good electric vehicle, like the Bolt, is in the mid $30s ($34-36K ish). A plug-in hybrid offers a good compromise between features and cost. You'll get similar mileage to a ForTwo Electric (50 miles on electric) but with fewer of the compromises (unlimited gas range after that, more features, nicer finish, four seats, etc).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- TheRealWatson 8y agoSpeaking for myself, besides the price, some driving patterns and destination may not favor electric cars today. If you travel frequently by car or can't always count on a charging station being available, then a hybrid could be a better alternative. The gap is closing, though.
- froindt 8y agoThe Obama era fleet efficiency standards don't bode well when looking at big heavy trucks. If they could put their efforts primarily behind one car, they could come out ahead on profitability. Doing so would greatly reduce the supply chain complexity, part variety (though shared parts across models has gotten much better in the last decade), inventory costs, etc. This would help service shops, suppliers, and their logistics. It will be interesting to see how this develops. Disclosure: I work for a Tier 1 supplier.
- post_break 8y agoRip Fiesta, and Focus ST. Yeah the Fiesta was already on the ax, but the Focus ST wasn't as much of a loser on the books.
- s17n 8y agoI think the problem with the focus is that the margins are essentially zero?
- post_break 8y agoProblem with the focus was the transmission worked better as a boat anchor on the automatics. It was dangerous and never got a formal recall.
- groby_b 8y agoAnd if you're wondering how dangerous Ford thought it was: After a nice letter from my lawyer, they offered to buy back my 5 year old Focus SE for essentially full price. (Plus covering lawyer costs)
- hideo 8y agoI'll miss the Focus RS hot hatch the most. Fords sedan/hatchback line wasn't something that stood out but MAN the RS hot hatch was a brilliant car. With the Subaru WRX STI hatchback gone and the Focus RS gone - is the VW GTI the only good hot hatch left on the market?
- Fomite 8y agoThe loss of the hatchback on the WRX continues to confuse the hell out of me. I'll also miss the Fiesta ST. I liked the idea of a cheap, entry level track car.
- X-Istence 8y agoEven Subaru retailers and corporate that I've spoken to as a Subaru ambassador are still not sure why the hatch was discontinued and it is still one fo the most requested things from Subaru. A WRX hatchback would be amazing
- poulsbohemian 8y agoDoesn't the Crosstrek fill this role?
- Fomite 8y agoNope. As mentioned, the Crosstrek is just a slightly higher Impreza. A hatchback WRX is an Impreza with an entertainingly powerful engine.
- ebikelaw 8y agoCrosstrek is just a jacked up Impreza hatch. People want the turbo 2.5L engine in a hot hatch instead.
- X-Istence 8y agoNah, the 2.5L engine days are done. The new engine design is much better, only 2.0L, and can do much higher numbers than what Subaru has tuned them for. The power comes on quicker so it's got the same 0-60 as the 2.5L in the STI due to turbo design. the EJ25 has served its time, it is time to retire it. Also, Subaru STI has already been using the 2.0 DIT engine for the WRX STI in Japan. See the WRX STI S208: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/wing-swap-jdm-subaru-wrx-sti-s208-special-edition-is-6000-miles-out-of-reach https://www.caranddriver.com/news/wing-swap-jdm-subaru-wrx-s...
- amelius 8y agoThat sounds like an Apple move.
- Tiktaalik 8y agoWe know that trucks are fundamentally more dangerous to pedestrians than cars. This is an unfortunate step backward in terms of road safety.
- baldeagle 8y agoBut they are safer for the occupants, which are the people buying the cars. I think the focus for a lot of AI like safety systems should be for the bigger vehicles, which can be harder to control in a number of situations.
- devy 8y agoI am surprised that Ford didn't mention their electrification plan their internal "Team Edison"[1] is working on. Contrary to many have believed, the fuel efficiency doesn't really matter for bigger and heavier SUV segments after electrification of their fleet. Tesla Model X proved that all-electric (aka BEV) SUV is a viable product. [1]: https://electrek.co/2018/03/15/ford-upcoming-electric-vehicles-charging-experience/ https://electrek.co/2018/03/15/ford-upcoming-electric-vehicl...
- toomanybeersies 8y agoIt's a real shame that the station wagon died out. I firmly believe they are the optimum type of car. You get the roominess of a sedan for your passengers, with a large storage area in the back, some station wagons rivaling a van.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> It's a real shame that the station wagon died out. Major manufacturers like Volkswagen, Volvo, Audi, BMW still sell 'station wagon' cars.
- flyingfences 8y agoAll of those are considered somewhat "upmarket" cars in the US. They're not marques that the everyman is buying.
- sorenjan 8y agoVolkswagen is upmarket? That's weird, they own Audi for that reason. What brands are cheaper?
- mi100hael 8y agoCivic & Corolla both start under $19k. VW Sportwagon starts at $22k which is more than 10% more.
- illirik 8y agoTrue, but VW grants a lot more in the way of rebates than Honda or Toyota. A manual Golf Sportwagen (lowest trim) quotes right at $20,000 on Truecar (where I live), and a manual Civic hatchback (lowest trim) is at $19,700. Not much of a difference (both prices including destination).
- StudentStuff 8y ago
- chaoticmass 8y agoThis makes me sad... I really have grown to like my 2012 Ford Focus and always imagined I'd buy another one, maybe an RS, someday.
- kylehotchkiss 8y agoPlease stop selling the Mustang soon, people just buy them to make lots of noise and set off other people's car alarms :'(
- loser777 8y agoMight want to ban any kind of aftermarket exhaust system and saws as well (in case people decide to just chop off their exhausts). /s
- CWuestefeld 8y agoWhere I live in Texas, that distinction goes to the "rollin' coal" pickup trucks.
- jpollock 8y agoI read this as "We can't compete where we're not protected by the chicken tax[1]. See you later." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
- JBReefer 8y agoOnly applies to pickups, and basically every manufacturer has assemblies in the US now, negating the advantage. You see a lot of Tundras in Texas because they're made there, for example
- kenhwang 8y agoI suppose not having Mazda around anymore for sedan platform/engine sharing really hurt Ford.
- sanderjd 8y agoCan you expand on this? In what way is Mazda not around anymore?
- what_ever 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda#Partnership_with_Ford_Motor_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda#Partnership_with_Ford_Mo...
- kenhwang 8y agoFord used to own ~30% of Mazda before selling the shares back to Japanese entities. Because of that, they were able to share engines and platforms. For example, the Mazda 3 and Ford Focus shared the Ford C1 platform and Mazda MZR engine. The Mazda 6 and Ford Fusion shared the Mazda G platform and MZR/Duratec engines. The Mazda 2 and Ford Fiesta shared the Mazda D platform. Since the breakup, Mazda has moved onto their newer Skyactiv engine/platforms, but lost access to the Ford Duratec V6 and C1-platform (the current Mazda3 sits on top of a Miata derived platform I believe). Ford is still using the older MZR designs as a basis for their EcoBoost I4 engines, but lost access to the Mazda G and D platforms underpinning the Fusion/Fiesta (and the Volvo derived D3 platform for the Taurus). I guess they decided to discontinue those lines instead of developing a new platform/engine for them. The C1 platform was a joint Mazda/Volvo/Ford venture, Ford may have decided that it's too expensive to develop an update to it on their own. Once you remove all vehicles that use the MZR-I4s and non-Ford platforms, the only car you're left with is the Mustang.
- DrScump 8y agoThe Mazda 6 and Ford Fusion shared the Mazda G platform The Mazda 6 platform of the early-mid 1990s was shared with the Ford Probe; the MX6-LS was the same as the Probe GT underneath. (Ford didn't even have a 24V V-6 of its own at the time.)
- njarboe 8y agoNot too surprising to me as the only popular American brand cars I see are muscle cars (Mustang, Challenger, and Charger). Thought that might be just a California thing, but looks like Ford thinks it is the trend for all of N. America.
- drblast 8y agoAs an American I wasn't aware that Ford made any cars other than the Mustang. If it's true they do, I probably lump them into a category with the other invisible cars like the Toyota Camry.
- ubernostrum 8y agoThe Focus and Fiesta were more popular outside the US, but still relatively popular here. I see quite a few of them in the parking lot where I live.
- illirik 8y agoSome of that might be the fact that Japanese and Korean automakers don't compete in that space. From anecdotal experience in North Carolina, plenty of folks would buy, say, a new Fusion over an Accord, whether out of brand loyalty ("I'd rather push my Ford than drive a Chevy" shirts are real and worn by actual live people), "patriotism", or a desire for a softer ride. There are still more Accords or Camrys, though.
- CWuestefeld 8y agoJapanese and Korean automakers don't compete in that space My Hyundai Genesis Coupe sits in that segment too, at least in terms of features of the car. Demographically it's miles away, as you note.
- perl4ever 8y agoTraditionally, the much maligned V-6 Mustang sold more than the V-8 version. I don't think that's the case any more (even if you replace V-6 with turbo 4). Of course, modern V-6's make as much power as the V-8s of a few decades ago. So I would say the various V-6 coupes compete in the space the Mustang used to be in, but now Ford has ceded that. On the other hand, Honda has quit making V-6 coupes, and I don't think Toyota does either these days.
- brudgers 8y agoI find it interesting to think about this as a branding decision. Ford has never established a strong brand identity for trucks. Sure, the F150 has a strong identity. But it's just one model within the F-series...necessary because it's not the E-series or a car. Even with this new strategy, the same branding drag will continue. A car, the Mustang, will still be the brand icon because it has a consistent profile not a jumble of ride heights and cab sizes and bed lengths. I think Fiat Chrysler made a good branding move by spinning off trucks and vans into the Ram Truck badge. It's a good branding move because the brands reflect a natural market segmentation. Most people are out "shopping for either a sedan or a pickup truck" at the point they walk into a show room with their checkbook. Ram and Chrysler brands are backed by distinct marketing persona sets. On the other hand, after this move the Ford brand will still be lumping those separate personas into a single set.
- bsiemon 8y agoPerhaps this is regional but I strongly disagree that ford doesn't have strong brand identity in trucks. Wars have been fought over Ford v Chevy in parts of Texas :)
- brudgers 8y ago"First on race day" [1] ain't about trucks. I'm not saying that the Ford brand isn't recognized for trucks. I am saying it's diluted. Ford is still going to make cars and so the brand identity will continue to be diluted. Even GM has GMC as a truck brand (and at one time Hummer). Fiat Chrysler has Jeep in addition to Ram. [1] "Found on roadside dead" is more neutral.
- StudentStuff 8y ago"Found on roadside dead" is way too real!
- wmeredith 8y agoFord has never established s strong brand identity with trucks?! In what universe? The Ford F series truck is the best selling vehicle in America (yes, including cars) and has been for many years. A picture of one is at the top of the Wikipedia page for “pickup truck”. Chevy and Ram have been chasing Ford for decades. They’re the Coca-Cola of trucks.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- s2g 8y ago> Ford also today reaffirmed its commitment to bringing hybrid-electric powertrains to the ... mustang oh that's just wrong.
- ericcumbee 8y agoUnless you think less of a Toyota Prius and more like a Honda/Acura NSX. I would be shocked if ford stuck a hybrid system in the Mustang and at some trim level didn't offer a performance hybrid system.
- perl4ever 8y agoPorsche has shown that hybrid technology can be used to enable the very highest performance such as with the 918 supercar. I would like to see more performance hybrid options where cars get roughly the same mileage as conventional cars, but have increased torque and performance, while not shifting gears. But then, I like CVTs in general, like the current Nissan Maxima.
- ericcumbee 8y agoI've always found it funny that CVTs which are so popular in economy cars are banned in almost every form of racing like F1, and Le Mans in order to control costs.
- s2g 8y agoPorsche produces incredibly high tech supercars. The Mustang has always been about a big engine. It's supposed to be cheap power and a great exhaust. I'd love to see an electric vehicle that captures the idea of cheap power. Fast off the line, fast to 60, good enough handling, looks good, and sacrifices enough to be within reach for most people. But the mustang... eh. 4 cylinder turbo is one thing. That's cheap efficient power. You buy it for 20-25k and you have a nice reasonably quick car that you can mod the hell out of.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 8y agoGiven how ubiquitous some of the cars Ford has stopped making such as the Crown Victoria are e.g fleets, police, taxis, it’s incredible to think it’s not financially worth it. Would be interesting to see the in-depth financials involved.
- WillPostForFood 8y agoI’ve enjoyed driving a rented a CMAX hybrid on a few occasions, great mileage and convinced me to switch to electric. Only downside is nav/entertainment system froze and rebooted while driving. I understand they’ve switched to QNX from Windows Embedded in newer iterations.
- analog31 8y agoI wonder where electric cars fit into this decision. Could it be that Ford anticipates not being able to be competitive in the electric market?