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"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covere
by mattsfrey 9y ago
"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it"
I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts.
Frankly I think it's pretty obvious apple is just trying to squeeze every cent out of these phones and it's a really bad hat to wear.
- Clubber 9y agoYes, this certainly isn't good optics. I would think Apple would be smarter than have something like this in the paper.
- comboy 9y agoI don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning. But I'm not on their side here. I think they should be allowed to design products to make repairs as hard as possible if they want to, but once I buy it I should be able to do whatever I want with it. Plus there's not that much great experience to protect lately..
- geezerjay 9y ago> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. It's quite obvious that, to put it mildly, that's wishful thinking inspired by a heavily rose-tainted view of Apple. Meanwhile, Apple is known for their extreme price gouging complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products, let alone upgrade them to a usable state.
- rmev 9y ago>using meme arrows
- Qub3d 9y agoThe "greater than" or right bracket is used as a standard inline quote symbol and has been since before image boorus or chans existed.
- dijit 9y agoApples 'price gouging' is just smart business. How do you get people in the low end to buy your product. But get the best margin on the high end? The base model of their products are perfectly servicable and price competitive for the quality. They just know what the wealthier consumers are willing to shell out for.
- inops 9y agoPossibly, but there's an obvious planned obsolescence angle here for Apple too. Perhaps people wouldn't so readily buy new iPhones if they could replace their old phone's battery, screen, buttons, etc for a more reasonable price from a "non-authorised" repairer. Perhaps they wouldn't get a new one like clockwork every 1-3 years.
- DanBC 9y agoOr perhaps a robust second hand market for refurbished phones allows more people to afford to stay on the upgrade treadmill, increasing Apple's sales and bringing more people into the app-store system.
- colejohnson66 9y agoIf any manufacturer of phones has planned obsolescence built in, it’s Android manufacturers. iOS devices receive updates for over 3 years, while you’re lucky to get updates to your Android phone after a year.
- josteink 9y agoWhile the android update-situation is a real issue, not having the latest version of android installed on your phone does not make it obsolete. There’s almost no software that actually depends on you having the latest version. Bad battery life or flash storage used to beyond it’s reasonable lifetime is a much bigger problem, a problem that can be solved by replacement parts, or even better: user replaceable batteries or SD-cards.
- scottmf 9y agoBattery replacements are $29 at Apple stores
- Karunamon 9y agoThis year only.
- vkou 9y ago> They want people who bought iPhone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Since when is buying a deliberately un-maintainable device 'the best experience'? I would call that anti-user.
- comboy 9y agoIt's the choice some people make. I think user experience is very subjective. I love the user experience that Gentoo provides me, but others will feel better with Windows 10. I didn't mean to say that it's objectively the best experience.
- vkou 9y agoAs a user, there is zero benefit to me when an Apple software update bricks my device because I replaced its screen at a third-party shop. This is not subjective, this is not an argument over whether or not their laptops should have a replaceable battery. This is a blatant cash grab by them, at my expense. I gain nothing from this decision. This practice may also be illegal in Europe.
- musage 9y agoPeople making choices doesn't magically protect those choices from scrutiny.
- jandrese 9y agoThat problem only comes up when you need to repair the phone. The out of box experience is more important to Apple.
- yitchelle 9y ago> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Adding further to this, Apple also wants 100% control over that experience and how that experience is deployed, including how and what can be repaired.
- FireBeyond 9y ago> Apple also wants 100% control over that experience and how that experience is deployed, including how and what can be repaired. They can want it all they like, they just have no implicit right to it.
- chris_wot 9y agoIf they cared about their brand, they would have considered what to do when you need to repair their product. If a good is faulty and get repaired, then it's not Apple who looks bad if the repair is bad. No, it's very clear they make their money by pushing new product.
- PurpleBoxDragon 9y agoThe $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this. I think it is all about money to them, and when they think they can win more money than it costs them in image, they will go after cases like this.
- saagarjha 9y ago> The $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this. What problem in their design are you referring to?
- StudentStuff 9y agoLikely touch disease or similar, Apple has had more than a few issues with bad solder joints in their products causing an untimely failure. The customer consistently gets blamed for these types of defects until it becomes a media issue for Apple.
- IBM 9y agoWell you have the right to do what you want with it. That's the thing about "Right To Repair", you already have the right to do it now. It's not illegal to open up your iPhone and replace a broken screen, Apple just doesn't support it by selling you genuine parts.
- cavanasm 9y agoAnd they'll sue you if you try to buy genuine parts that they rejected in QA that are not being advertised as genuine.
- alasdair_ 9y ago>That's the thing about "Right To Repair", you already have the right to do it now. Except that a lot of the times, you don't. The issue arises when the manufacturer adds some encryption to validate that a part is genuine (e.g. printer manufacturers using code signing to validate a printer cartridge is theirs) then suing people under the DMCA when they have to reverse-engineer the encryption just to repair their item. Take the John Deere case for example (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska-farmers-right-to-repair-john-deere-apple https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska...) - farmers bought tractors. The tractors needed to be repaired. To do this, the farmers needed to either break John Deere's copy protection mechanisms or use John Deere's own expensive repair services. Deere sued the farmers for trying to repair their own tractors.
- squarefoot 9y ago"I think they should be allowed to design products to make repairs as hard as possible if they want to" Not the 1st time they did that apparently. https://web.archive.org/web/20170103102649/blog.irepairnational.com/2014/09/30/iphone-5s-blue-screen-bootloop-restore-error-14-or-error-9/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170103102649/blog.irepairnatio...
- eesmith 9y agoAt Ford™ we care about our brand. We want people who bought a Ford™ car to have the best experience we prepared for them. Other fuels may contain additives which make your Ford™ engine seem imperfect. A few misguided people are tempted by the siren call of the independent fuel suppliers to use something other than the Ford™ fuel specially made for your needs. When things go wrong, they spread rumors that Ford™ vehicles suck, when it was simply their misguided fault. And that's why, as the proud owner of a Ford™ vehicle, you must go to a Ford™ gasoline station to buy Ford™ fuel. That's Ford™ fuel, available from a Ford™ station somewhere in your state.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Techowl 9y agoWouldn't car parts be a much more accurate analogy, though? Apple isn't suing anyone for not using Apple-branded electricity to power their phone.
- adrianN 9y agoDon't give them ideas.
- beenBoutIT 9y agoI don't understand why the geniuses at Apple haven't seen the obvious flaws in our American/European/Asian/etc wall plugs and sockets and created Apple branded proprietary wall plugs and sockets that are totally incompatible with all current American/European/Asian/etc. plugs and sockets. Apple products would all use the proprietary plugs, while 'obsolete' devices with standard plugs would require a $40-100 Apple adapter. The Apple home isn't truly going to be an Apple Home until you can't plug a non-Apple device into a wall socket without forking over money to Apple for an unnecessary adapter.
- Scooty 9y agoIt's easier to just change the plug on the other end of the power cables every release.
- rasz 9y agoHAHAHA NO. The first thing you are being told when becoming Apple Authorized Service provider is UP-SELL. Your main function and profit source is telling people "cant be repaired/repair will cost as much as new one, would you like this new model?"
- FireBeyond 9y ago> The first thing you are being told when becoming Apple Authorized Service provider is UP-SELL. Your main function and profit source is telling people "cant be repaired/repair will cost as much as new one, would you like this new model?" I had water damage to a 2013 MBP, minor but nonetheless. It passed all diagnostics. Ran fine on AC power. Battery diagnostics were fine too. But it wouldn't charge. "Charge circuit error". No problem, I think. That's where the water damage was, no doubt. So I take it to Apple (in 2014, probably 18 months after purchase). I set my expectations, hmm, maybe $200-300? Let's go with $300, after labor, etc. Haha. "Sir, the charge circuitry is damaged and we need to replace that. You're looking at $899. Perhaps we should talk about you buying a new MacBook? Have you seen the latest?" So, there's labor, etc. But you're going to tell me that to repair something, that by your own diagnostics, is fine except for this one part costs 70% of the new purchase price? I paid $1300, if I recall for the MBP. Take away something for labor, etc, and apparently the charging circuit is worth more than the CPU, the memory, the SSD, the screen? No, now it serves as a driver for my step daughter's Garage Brand / Logic Pro setup with MIDI drums, keyboard, etc., remains on AC and has worked fine for several more years.
- blattimwind 9y ago> So, there's labor, etc. But you're going to tell me that to repair something, that by your own diagnostics, is fine except for this one part costs 70% of the new purchase price? That's what a highly integrated machine gets you. Charge circuit defective => replace entire main board, including CPU, probably memory and storage too nowadays. No one is doing component-level repairs any more.
- 15155 9y ago
- conradev 9y agoThis has happened multiple times: 1. Users swap parts in a way Apple didn't account for in software 2. Something goes wrong, users blame Apple for intentionally breaking third party repairs 3. Apple deals with it Touch ID mismatch: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/19/error-53-apple-issues-fix-bricked-iphones https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/19/error-53-... Third party screens: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#1103 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#1103 Third party screens, again: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/10/iphone-8-ios-113-breaks-smartphones-third-party-repaired-screens-apple https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/10/iphone-8-...
- HammerJack 9y agoConsidering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release, I think your argument that they're trying to protect the experience doesn't hold much weight.
- saagarjha 9y ago> Considering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release Source, please?
- vetinari 9y agoIt's also my experience, upgrading iPhone 3G from iOS 3 to iOS 4. That thing was unusable afterwards. I'm sure there are examples with newer devices and iOS versions, but I wouldn't tell, because I didn't get any other afterwards.
- coolio2657 9y agoIf you pay attention to software and tech news, at all, you'd know this, or at least try to google it.
- josteink 9y agoHere you go: https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-battery-replacement-price-slow-down-apology https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-ba... I’m sure they do it all the time, but this one incident actually caused worldwide news-coverage, even in tabloids read by normal people (that is, not just techies).
- scottmf 9y agoThat isn’t “intentionally slowing phones with new firmware releases”. That’s the phone slowing the CPU when the battery gets old to prevent unexpected shutdowns. If you think this is “planned obselence” you misunderstand the issue. iOS 11.3 now lets you disable this, so you can have full performance at the cost of unexpected shutdowns. Or you can just get an official battery replacement for $29 and your phone will be like new.
- potta_coffee 9y agoThey altruistically try to shut down a business that provides a legitimate service to customers who want that service, out of the goodness of their hearts?
- RivieraKid 9y agoThe "clean" solution would be a legal requirement that people buying used iPhones should have the knowledge that it contains unoriginal parts.
- enlightenedfool 9y ago"They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them". If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it...
- Yetanfou 9y ago> I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Ford motorcars just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to run them on officially licensed Ford fuel. Philips lighting just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use Philips batteries. Keurig just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use officially licensed coffee cups. Miele just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use Miele dishwasher detergents. ... What a horrible world that would be, don't you agree? Sometimes regulation of business really is for the benefit of all, as Apple so vividly reminds us of time and time again. Designing their products to be basically irreparable should be allowed but it would be good if they were made to fess up to this before people forked over their earnings to buy one of those discard-a-phones. In Europe manufacturers of white goods have to put an energy label on their products to give prospective customers some idea of how much energy the device uses in comparison to other current devices in a scale from A to D (up to 2010: A-G [1]). This concept could be adapted to device maintenance as well, covering both repair as well as replacement of consumables. Apple products would score 'D' on availability of spare parts and 'D' on third-party service access. Such a scheme might help in convincing manufacturers that serviceability can be a selling point if done right. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label
- vbezhenar 9y agoThat's true. My friend bought "new" iPhone for half of price. It broke after few monthes of use. He know thinks that iPhone is just overpriced bad phone. Unfortunately it's a very big market here to sell phones which are built from old parts in China but very unreliable. People want iPhone but can't afford its price.
- intopieces 9y ago>How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Apple's case. First, it seems like they are suing for trademark infringement, not for copyright infringement. Second, the repair shop owner is by no stretch of the imagination the end user of this product. Wikipedia gives this definition of end user: "In product development, an end user (sometimes end-user)[a] is a person who ultimately uses or is intended to ultimately use a product.[1][2][3] The end user stands in contrast to users who support or maintain the product,[4] such as sysops, system administrators, database administrators,[5] information technology experts, software professionals and computer technicians." As for "no way markets them as OEM parts," this is not a very consumer-focussed answer. I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians." Otherwise, from Apple's perspective, this repair shop owner is just taking advantage of Apple's reputation for quality and using it to make cut-rate repairs.
- mattsfrey 9y agoFirst two points - semantics. The point is that once the physical product was sold, consumers have the right to do whatever the hell they like with it, including sell it. As to your latter statements, opinions will vary on this, but I believe it is well known that this guy's shop is not official / authorized by apple. People coming to this guy's shop are doing so to specifically avoid the drastically higher costs of seeking an authorized repair / replacement from apple. It'd be much easier to just mail it to apple, so I think there is an implied cognizance in seeking his services as an alternative. So I personally think as long as he is honest about not being an official apple repair shop, doesn't brandish their logos or in any way affirmatively hijack their brand, he should be safe from penalty of law.
- alasdair_ 9y ago> I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians." Okay. So my mechanic needs to state that for every single manufacturer of every single component that he may potentially use to fix my car, right down to the level of individual capacitors on individual circuitboards, he is not an authorized technician for that item? That seems unduly onerous.
- kevin_b_er 9y agoBecause corporations are trying to erode the concept of ownership itself for the common human. Copyright and trademark are the vehicles they're use to attempt to deny you the fundamental notion of ownership. The corporations are getting quite close to it in the US.
- jerrac 9y agoNice to see someone else shares that view. Though, it's not just the corporations. Our Government is in on the action as well. I'd love to see that eminent domain Supreme Court ruling overturned...
- joqje09309 9y ago"Brand" is God now. The Brand must protect itself from outsiders, peddling false promises, or potentially turning people away from The Brands Name. How people don't see the benefits we bestow on corporate as anything but lifted directly from Church doctrine, I dunno. Most of the leadership is from a generation that was raised in the church. Replace church with corporation, and Brand/marketing with Bible. They use different language, p/e, stock price, imports/exports, but under it all is effort to nudge people in support of those things; their new gospel for building a successful relig... brand and corporate empire. Tend to our flock.... err employee culture! Round and round we go.
- dpkonofa 9y ago>The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Except that the archive.org page for his site clearly shows that his site was marketing the replacements as genuine Apple parts and that it was changed after the court case began.
- zouhair 9y agoI think they are just testing the waters in a small suit to see which strategy will work better for them to enforce rendering fixing their products illegal. Apple now is a full on evil corporation.