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Amazon will launch its own delivery service to compete with FedEx, UPS

421 points by artsandsci 9y ago

220V_USKettle 9y ago
The Microsoft Zune of delivery?
drukenemo 9y ago
When Amazon completely dominates the online market and all its aspects, wouldn't it be in a GREAT position to charge customers much much more? Would it still need to be "competitive"?
- ProAm 9y ago
  This is what they did to all the prices on Amazon. Started cheap or at a loss and now prices are equal to or more expensive than going to a normal store.
  - overcast 9y ago
    Examples? Certainly nothing I purchase regularly is cheaper in a store. Especially considering the inconvenience of a store, and 5% cashback on everything.
    - mrguyorama 9y ago
      Specifically, a package of 3 bars of Cetaphil soap in my local walmart is less than 10$ to walk out the door with. Compare that to prices on amazon that range from the same price as in store, to over $20 with shipping excluded! Another example, this time a slightly more bulk item, is ramen noodles [0]. They are around 20 cents a noodle in local stores, while amazon lists them around 50 cents per noodle (even in large 36 packs) [0] https://www.amazon.com/Maruchan-chicken-noodle-soup-pack/dp/B00MHBX8AE/ref=sr_1_17_s_it?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1518203407&sr=1-17&keywords=ramen https://www.amazon.com/Maruchan-chicken-noodle-soup-pack/dp/...
      - overcast 9y ago
        Oh, I don't buy day to day grocery store stuff on Amazon.
        mrguyorama 9y ago
        I was keying off of your "purchase regularly" comment. Either way, the only products that amazon seems to offer at a reasonably competitive price, factoring in shipping, is amazon basics items, and that's because they can do to the supply chain the same thing walmart did.
        overcast 9y ago
        Eh. Books, water filters, video games, camera lenses/filters, bags, lawn fertilizer, shoes, movies. All of that stuff is definitely cheaper on amazon than anywhere else. Big ticket items especially. Factor in 5% back, and you get most of your tax, or straight up 5% off tax free items. Can't really beat 2day prime shipping, and no hassle returns.
        astura 9y ago
        When was the last time you actually comparison shopped? I don't find Amazon's prices to be particularly great in those categories, more than "average to poor." Your "free two day shipping" isn't free, it's prepaid. For electronics, for example, I find that Newegg provides much better service and lightning fast shipping at compatible prices. Also "stores" deliver too (target.com, walmart.com, bestbuy.com, etc).
        overcast 9y ago
        I comparison shop EVERY item I purchase. I used to be a hardcore shopper on Newegg, Amazon will consistently beat them. Newegg went down that messy third party route, and it's been a disaster ever since. The shipping is hit or miss, Shoprunner is rarely supported since they began offering their version of prime, whatever it's called. I have "Keepa" notifiers on everything, and catch lightning/warehouse/price drops on everything. I'm definitely not going to go digging around Walmart/Target daily for $5 BluRay titles.
    - allenu 9y ago
      A PS4 1TB Slim is $320 right now. Target has it for $300. During the holidays, they and retailers sold it for $250. After the holidays, I watched slowly as the price started rising each week. Retailers jumped back up to $300, but Amazon was at $270, then $290, and now strangely $320.
      - overcast 9y ago
        As always, shop around. Amazon usually wins out for me.
chomp 9y ago
>If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead. Not me. I hate their Prime Now drivers and pretty often get things delivered to the wrong house, or not show up at all when my Amazon things are delivered through them. I don't think they will be able to replicate UPS's strong delivery service and employee benefits, and also don't think the savings will be passed to the consumer. All in all, I think everyone except Amazon loses in this deal.
ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
I'd like to know how Amazon manages and organizes themselves with respect to leadership, teams, hierarchy, knowledge sharing and integration between different internal and external groups with everything they do and all of their business units. The fact that they succeed here is more amazing than any of the tech.
- losteric 9y ago
  In my experience, Amazon is very good about focusing managers on facilitating talent and trusting engineers with implementation. Not in all orgs, granted, but the innovative / experimental ones are very engineering driven... even the managers generally have some first-hand engineering experience. They're also good about keeping projects under single org trees - senior engineers act as executors of the VP's will, bypassing slow human management chains. If a team slips on their roadmap, the senior engineer can immediately intervene to provide unblocking advice (possibly looping in other experts) and coordinating scheduling changes with dependent teams... that shadow technical hierarchy is very powerful. It's let some VPs / directors reorg every couple months to shift out bad people managers, knowing tactical implementation isn't being interrupted. Knowledge management... I've heard Google is much better. Amazon's infrastructure is well documented, but bleeding-edge projects can be hit-or-miss. Their forte is strong separation of responsibilities... which usually means tribal knowledge. edit: I say "engineering" because I am one... but it's not just engineering. Amazon management focuses on hiring smart people they can trust to operate autonomously. That means less bureaucratic red tape, flat(ish) management chains, and effective direct communication. Talking "through" management, escalation, is a seen as a last-resort.
- petra 9y ago
  The key to Amazon's organization is that they are built deeply on the startup mentality, where a small group of talented people that go after an opportunity, give them access to great tools/platforms/data via standard building blocks like AWS/FBA/Amazon's site and data and actually everything at amazon is built of microservices(they can mix and match), allow them to experiment but measure performance, push for speed, and don't put any bureaucracy on them. And once it's time for scaling, Amazon is great at that. And of course, if it's possible, create new building blocks for the next startups. But also, a big part of Amazon is risk management. Building platforms(like FBA), that leaves the risky stuff(like importing) to others. And using the data from that platform to reduce risks for it's own startups.
MBCook 9y ago
Will? I’ve gotten two or three packages this way. On the plus side you get a picture of the package at your door (or whatever) so you know they left it. But it doesn’t integrate well with my delivery tracking app. They don’t know to drop packages at the package desk at my apartment complex instead of leaving them on my doorstep to be stolen. Interesting to see them go more vertical though.
- speg 9y ago
  Are those third party contractors or an Amazon service? Here we have some random guys driving around in their own cars throwing packages on your stoop. This sounds like a more formal courier operated by Amazon themselves.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    I get the feeling it’s a real service, not just random contracts to couriers. But I’ve never been home to meet one when a package got delivered so I’m not sure. It may be a mix right now for all I know.
  - grapeshot 9y ago
    Amazon operates the delivery center. Most drivers are subcontracted through a couple different messenger companies and use rented Ford Transits, and the randos in their own cars take care of the rest.
beckler 9y ago
I used to work for a company that did logistic software, and Amazon creating their own last-mile service was something they predicted years ago. It's a nightmare for them because it will ultimately take business away from every carrier, and more sellers will ultimately want to use Amazon's service over time. The margins in shipping are already razor-thin, and Amazon would easily be able to take the loss to choke other competitors out.
- pythonaut_16 9y ago
  If Amazon takes a loss on their shipping service that could very directly open them to an anti-trust investigation
  - mrguyorama 9y ago
    The current political climate makes the risk calculus lean towards the "do illegal thing" direction
- bob_theslob646 9y ago
  Can you post a source about the carriers margins being paper thin because looking at the last annual reports for FedEx and UPS, it doesn't seem to be the case. The biggest expense for them is labor and I think Amazon is going to do a good job of controlling that cost. Goodbye Teamsters.
  - beckler 9y ago
    Sorry, guess I should of been more specific. Margin is thin per package, because shipping is a volume game. Sending a package is actually pretty cheap for most businesses, but unless you have volume, you have no leverage to get a reduced rate.
dewski 9y ago
When I see a delivery coming from Amazon I know I won’t get it until 5-6PM or even later. UPS or FedEx have found a way to get it here by 10AM. It often results in delivery delays as well, FedEx and UPS deliveries for Amazon orders are rarely late. Maybe it’s due to more drivers and trucks, but so far I’m not a fan of Amazons delivery and would pay more not to use it.
- tedivm 9y ago
  It's definitely a regional thing. For us UPS is awful- we live on "first" street and they constantly deliver our packages to the same house number only on "second" street. Nothing is worse than finding out a package was shipped with OnTrac though.
- op00to 9y ago
  Opposite experience for me. AMZL - not same day, but normal next day or two day, will arrive between 7am and 11am. AMZL same day (some times another logistics company altogether and not AMZL) will generally come some time between 9PM and 8AM the next day, with almost all same day packages actually arriving the next day (meaning a free month of Prime for me, plus refund of the shipping charges, and occasionally a gift card to shut me up.)
- deleted 9y ago
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- Tempest1981 9y ago
  I ordered something at 10pm, and OnTrac delivered it at 8am the next morning. I guess somebody has to be at the beginning of the route. :-) It's not consistent, but usually before 11am, whereas UPS is usually 5-8 pm.
JohnTHaller 9y ago
I hope they replace their Prime delivery routes first. UPS and FedEx are decent. Amazon's Prime delivery in NYC is awful. They toss packages near doors. Report attempting delivery and that no one was home without bothering to even show up at the building. Even the ones that actually deliver will hit every doorbell of a multi-unit apartment building until someone buzzes them and then open the front door and toss the box into the front hallway.
- awakeasleep 9y ago
  This hope seems to ride on the chance that Amazon gives its own drivers more time to deliver a package than they do for contractors they currently control. Seems just as likely the reverse will happen.
deleted 9y ago
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mc32 9y ago
I hope they unionize quickly and then put in rules to not allow from me deliveries to take away union jobs. Have them play on an even field.
spiralpolitik 9y ago
So far my experience with Amazon's delivery service has been pretty negative. Expensive packages going missing, packages delivered to the wrong address, attempts to deliver packages to business addresses outside of business hours etc. Personally I would prefer the option of Amazon allowing me to pick the carrier I want to use rather than simply go with lowest cost. In most cases I value reliability over lower cost.
- hackermailman 9y ago
  I would rather to choose as well since I live directly beside carrier X pickup point, but they always use carrier Y which means driving across the city to get it. The Amazon delivery drivers always harass you as well, phoning multiple times and totally perplexed you have a job and can't be home to pick something up demanding a time for redelivery on the spot which means I have to stop what I'm doing and screw around with my schedule. Either let me enter precise time windows for delivery, get pickup spots or let me choose the shipping company which is the easiest, I don't care about the extra $5 if it means I'm not spending half my Saturday in traffic to get a book.
- pythonaut_16 9y ago
  I ordered a graphics card from Newegg back in November and it got shipped via FedEx. What was really nice with Fedex was that I could have it shipped to my house, or pick from any FedEx or several Walgreens locations for pickup. Since it was an expensive package I chose to pick it up from a Walgreens near my office. Amazon's shipping is faster, but Newegg/FedEx shipping was a much better experience. It told me who was shipping the package up front and let me choose from several delivery options via that carrier.
swamplander 9y ago
Their service with their existing delivery service (Amazon Logistics) has been TERRIBLE thus far. Lazy drivers leaving packages in clear sight in the middle of the driveway, unreliable delivery estimates, etc. This last Christmas season, everything shipped from Amazon via UPS / FedEx arrived on time as expected. Everything Amazon shipped via their AMZN Logistics / USPS was late, 50% arrived after Christmas even when ordered on December 14. We've stopped shopping at Amazon in favor of other vendors who let you pick your shipping service. Their customer service just keeps collecting information, but it's not getting any better. > If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead. You get what you pay for... I'll avoid Amazon until I can pick my own RELIABLE carrier. UPS & FedEx have shown they are reliable.
- mathgeek 9y ago
  We also canceled a few hundred dollars worth of monthly deliveries once Amazon started using USPS to deliver them. Having to go to the post office to pick up larger boxes because they were too big to be delivered to our home meant it was easier to just go buy the stuff ourselves.
  - driverdan 9y ago
    > too big to be delivered to our home That's a thing? I've had tons of large packages delivered via USPS and have never had them hold something for being too big. Are you in an apt complex that doesn't have a package pickup area?
    - mathgeek 9y ago
      It's a smaller post office.
- leesalminen 9y ago
  After fighting with chat/phone support for months, I finally emailed jeff@amazon with a lengthy message recounting my recent shipping experiences with USPS. They removed USPS as an option from my account. Everything now comes from UPS/FedEx. It may be worth noting that I spend roughly one order of magnitude more than their average prime customer annually (work equipment).
jacek 9y ago
IMO this is very bad news for the economy. Amazon will do very well as a delivery service, because unlike competition they have underpaid and overworked deliverers. They basically uberified delivery. The costs are much lower, but delivery jobs will shift to low paid, no benefits 'gigs'. Amazon is more and more scary as it monopolizes more and more businesses.
- philfrasty 9y ago
  „...unlike competition they have underpaid and overworked deliverers...“# This is a pretty accurate general description of the delivery industry per se, not Amazon specific.
  - fitchjo 9y ago
    Wouldn't that be an indication that the wages are at market?
    - nawgszy 9y ago
      >at market Ah yes, the calling card of people that think systematic exploitation of workers in a global economy where only the top few are gaining wealth is fine because "free market rules" matter in a world full of regulatory capture and industries with too high of a barrier to entry to foster true competition.
      - Godel_unicode 9y ago
        > high of a barrier to entry to foster true competition. The article is literally about true competition being attempted in a high-moat business.
        addicted 9y ago
        This isn't true competition. This is vertical integration. Amazon isn't offering to deliver Walmart packages for a price.
wonder_bread 9y ago
Under/Over 10 years after Bezos retires, does Amazon end up looking like GE does now? This spree of Amazon getting into markets that are already at near-perfect competition levels is a bit worrying. How many people could reasonably handle a business this complicated, with so many competitors?
- phil21 9y ago
  > This spree of Amazon getting into markets that are already at near-perfect competition levels Is this true? Retail shipping is not nearly that competitive, at least from a very naive consumer standpoint looking in. Amazon can ship stuff at 20-30% of the cost I would pay as a small business to UPS. Using UPS. Seems like there is a ton of margin there to be captured.
  - ashelmire 9y ago
    Shipping is very competitive. These are some of the most seasoned and efficient businesses, by necessity, in the world. If Amazon is shipping things cheaper, it's because they are using it as a loss leader. You don't really think it costs them $0 to ship things, do you?
    - phil21 9y ago
      > If Amazon is shipping things cheaper, it's because they are using it as a loss leader. You don't really think it costs them $0 to ship things, do you? No, I'm specifically talking about actual dollars paid to UPS. I run (ran) a small business, and we shipped about a pallet or two (overall) a week. Amazon's leaked UPS rates a few years back were about 30% of our already heavily discounted (from what a retail customer would pay) rates. Where did the $0 shipping comment come from? You also can commit to a spend with Fedex/UPS of relatively small amounts (4 figures/mo) and get an immediate and painless 25-40% off immediately. Like I said there is a lot of margin there, at least in certain segments of the business. I'm just not sure how much or where exactly the costs are (there may be very legitimate reasons why serving Amazon costs less than half of serving me) to know if there is a retail cost play.
- 9y ago
skulloking 9y ago
I... honestly thought they already had.
arstin 9y ago
I order something or other from Amazon every couple weeks and, living in Chicago, have often gotten it via Amazon delivery for a year or two now. It just seems like one problem after another: not actually dropping the package off, hiding the package in a crevice between buildings, very often not arriving when quoted, rude calls from drivers because I'm not at home. Add to this problems with worker pay and treatment, and I'll stick to UPS whenever possible.
resoluteteeth 9y ago
This bgr article has unfortunately completely misunderstood what the news is. > Amazon may be a one stop shop for home goods, electronics, furniture, clothing and more, but in order to actually get items to your home, the e-commerce giant has to depend on delivery services like FedEx and UPS No, amazon already has its own logistics company that operates in many locations. The news is that it is now going to offer this to as a service to ship other companies' packages. From the linked WSJ article: > Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon,” or SWA, the new service will entail the tech giant picking up packages from businesses and shipping them to consumers, according to people familiar with the matter.
- sib 9y ago
  From the bgr article: > Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon” (SWA), the service will pick up packages from businesses and deliver them to customers. > Sources claims that Amazon will begin rolling out the service in Los Angeles within the next few weeks in Los Angeles with third-party sellers that do business through Amazon.com. Seems like the same news.
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    If so, the bgr article's author has not expressed it clearly.
neverminder 9y ago
Amazon Prime delivers it's own orders in London for quite a while now. The good: delivers 7 days a week, fairly reliably. The bad: no delivery window email like DPD does, their live tracking map is just useless.
- dbbk 9y ago
  Amazon has had its own delivery service for a long time. This news is about Amazon operating delivery for external packages, not just Prime products.
- kennydude 9y ago
  It's all over the UK. Anyone with a car or van can do it. Amazon doesn't "deliver it's own orders", it's given to a contractor.
  - CraigRood 9y ago
    Not sure if that's the case? I travel past a Amazon Prime Now Warehouse occasionally and they always have loads of white vans parked.
Damogran6 9y ago
Amazon logistics has a habit around here of delivering packages at 11pm to make the delivery day requirements...I can't help but feel it's yet another huge organization wringing out their employees because hey, employees are expendable.
caffed 9y ago
Just to chime in here about how terrible and unaccountable the delivery service is - I bought a part for my bike that on first attempt went to the wrong intermediate routing center. They marked it as undeliverable instead of just rerouting it. I had to get a refund and was promised a $25 credit to my next purchase. That didn’t happen. I ordered the same item again. It was lost in transit. Got refund with no credit. It took the third try to get my item. I selected same day delivery on the previous two but not the third. I live in San Francisco and the item was in their Fremont fullfillment center. So....?
- pythonaut_16 9y ago
  If they didn't give you a credit that promised you should follow up and hold them accountable. They should have logs of account actions, and if not, you should save a log of the chat where it was promised.
  - tomalpha 9y ago
    Further to this, my £10 credit for missed deliveries could only be applied to items sold by and shipped from Amazon. No third party sellers. It also only showed up right at the end of the checkout process just before the final click. Mentioning because I both thought I hadn’t been credited with it (first time of chasing Amazon I actually hadn’t it turned out...) and then was miffed I could only use it on a subset of items.
  - deleted 9y ago
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neuroticfish 9y ago
I'm sure there are a ton of reasons Amazon chose not to build HQ2 in Memphis, TN but I think this was the primary.
MatthewWilkes 9y ago
It's interesting reading the comments in this thread as they seem to be very much from a US standpoint. Here in the UK it's rare for Amazon packages to be sent by anything other than Amazon Logistics. There are issues with misdelivery or leaving things in plain view, but the same is true of their competitors such as Yodel. The difference with Amazon is that even if they've taken a photo of a safe place as 'proof' of delivery for an item they don't argue if you report it as undelivered. Prime gives you free next day delivery, including outside of business hours and weekends, and sometimes free same day depending on their logistics. Overall, buying from Amazon and having them deliver it is a better than average experience.
- euyyn 9y ago
  Completely different management, probably. My experience with Amazon Logistics in the US is horrible too, worse of the carriers by a big margin.
- beckler 9y ago
  Logistics in the UK are quite different than in the US. In fact, I always thought the UK was a bit more innovative when it came to shipping. For example, shipping lockers are still quite new in the US. In fact, I think Amazon owns the only lockers I've ever seen in person. As a side note, I will also apologize if you've ever used Yodel, since a small part of my development efforts went towards their early logistics systems.
- makomk 9y ago
  It's possible that part of the difference is that here in the UK, the competitors are often companies like Yodel that had already taken the same gig-economy, overworked subcontractors with unrealistic targets approach that Amazon have.
- stordoff 9y ago
  According to the Yodel driver who delivers to us, they are paid a rather small per-parcel fee and expected to make an almost unreasonable number of deliveries in a certain timeframe. They already have the same factors that are likely responsible for pushing the quality of Amazon's service down.
bg4 9y ago
Do we really need Amazon Everything?
- williamgrosset 9y ago
  > "Amazon has reportedly been working on making its own logistics network a reality after a disappointing holiday season in 2013 during which countless packages were delivered late." From their perspective, seems a bit necessary.
CodeSheikh 9y ago
..to complete with FedEX, UPS and USPS, with later one being the worst of them all. Amazon has been stockpiling used cargo aircrafts for some time now in Seattle (hint..hint) and creating a delivery service at grass root city level makes much more sense for them because 1) you are not relying to ship goods from your regional warehouses often 2) this helps you get tax benefits by bringing in delivery jobs locally 3) expedited shipping of common use products such toilet papers, toothpaste etc that do not need to get shipped from regional warehouses. A lot of time your late delivery complaint just ended up you getting a $5 credit or a month waiver from your annual prime membership because Amazon can't hold USPS delivery guy accountable as it can to one of its own.
badgers 9y ago
Nothing new here [1], they've been doing this for the past 5+ years. They are still at least half a decade away from taking away any significant volume from FedEx or UPS. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12600094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12600094
pier25 9y ago
Here in Mexico Amazon has been getting contracts with crappy local couriers and the experience has been negative. DHL always did a great job in my area.
- edgarvaldes 9y ago
  Yesterday I received a package in Mexico (from Amazon Mexico), the delivery man arrived in a private car. I was puzzled by the fact, but the package was fine, and delivered in time.
spdustin 9y ago
Amazon's delivery service now (in my area, anyway) takes a photo of the package once it's placed on your doorstep, and the Amazon iPhone app confirmation includes a notice showing the photo. It's been a nice feature for me, until one driver put the package on my front porch, but then too, a photo from their car of my entire house as the delivery confirmation photo.
- darethas 9y ago
  This doesn't really seem that innovative to me -- even the postal service can send you an email of what is in your mailbox.
  - op00to 9y ago
    It solves the biggest problem that I had with AMZL, which is when the courier claims they delivered a package when they didn't. What happens is that the same day couriers will get overloaded and be unable to finish their routes by the 9PM delivery deadline, so they'll just drive by and mark delivered (I think it's a GPS thing) and then drop it off in the morning. Some times they never deliver it at all. The picture eliminates this bullshit, as they must show the package on my doorstep. I haven't had this problem since AMZL started taking pictures, but I also haven't tried Same Day delivery as much. I'll have to give it another shot to see what happens.
efsavage 9y ago
I would actually pay extra, to Amazon, for Amazon not to deliver their own package, the service is that bad.
mixmastamyk 9y ago
Amzn shipping has changed for the much worse in the last two years, guessing to prioritize prime customers? We used to get our items shipped promptly and they would arrive slowly but surely in about a week. You would see progress at e.g. ups/usps. Now they sit on your order for a week then send it and it arrives in two weeks. If you call and complain they will two-day ship it. Much less progress is visible as well, leaving you to wonder the whole time and bother support. How can that make any financial sense? How can sitting on it for a week make sense? They still have to deliver all the packages, now they’re a week behind. Have done business with them for ~20 years and considering another merchant where treated with respect.
cephaslr 9y ago
Between launching a delivery service to compete with FedEx/UPS/etc and a health service to compete with Cigna/UHG/etc I wonder if Amazon is starting to overreach? Perhaps this thread also supports this theory with some (admittedly small) antidotal evidence its Amazon retail issues?
vasili111 9y ago
I think Amazon needs at least 2 real competitors.
Feniks 9y ago
Postal service in my country is good enough to guarantee next day delivery without Amazon Prime bullshit. Free delivery Amazon, get on it.
- dangerboysteve 9y ago
  well if the size of your country fits into most US states that's not a real accomplishment. Reduced land mass and a mature postal system... you would expect that.
kbos87 9y ago
FedEx and UPS should have cut Amazon off while they could still kill them.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  Or bought them / merged.
ecommerceguy 9y ago
Good. Hopefully this will unclog UPS during q4.
sgolestane 9y ago
We've been having problem with packages stink with cigarette smell to the point that we have to open the packages outside of the house and the wash our hands.
amelius 9y ago
FedEx and UPS had an opportunity there, to start their own online marketplace, and compete Amazon out of existence. But the window is closing, and now they will have the same thing happening to them. And it will be another instance of winner takes all.
grad_ml 9y ago
Amazon can think they will build fedex in next 1 year. I think they're out of their depth. Building software is much different than building manual labour centric systems. Their efforts will be fruitless. To build a shopping website, where things are pretty much well interfaced, it took them, 20 years. Though, they do deserve credit for AWS. Again human systems aren't analogues to software system. They have fortune to spent, so let's spent.
- deleted 9y ago
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- jethro_tell 9y ago
  Don't they have a few hundred thousand manual labor employees already?
- Skunkleton 9y ago
  They aren't building a FedEx in the next year. They already have have a logistics service, they are just opening it to third parties that aren't part of amazon marketplace.
  - grad_ml 9y ago
    Please read the implicit sarcasm.
oh_sigh 9y ago
Funny, my director at amazon laughed when I presented this idea in 2010, and guess who I see is working on this project via linked in?
ironix 9y ago
Their delivery service is frustrating. It seems to be the norm, and accepted, that drivers will mark packages delivered a full 24 hours ahead of time and do the delivery the next day, presumably to meet delivery requirements. I've also had these individuals basically solicit me for a tip, recounting how they're underpaid, etc. I really don't like this move to try to uber-ify package delivery. UPS/FedEx have their bad moments, but at least I don't have to worry that the employees are under too much duress to deliver, or are on the edge of unreasonably compensated.
- twblalock 9y ago
  One Amazon delivery guy knocked on my door so aggressively around 7am that I thought he was trying to break in.
  - gumby 9y ago
    I had one earlier this week call my phone repeatedly before 6 AM (breaking through the "do not disturb) to complain he couldn't find one of my packages in his car.
- NickGerleman 9y ago
  I've been in Seattle for around a month and can completely agree with this. One time half of an order went to a wrong apartment, and the other half came the next day. UPS and related have access codes to get into the building where Amazon doesn't. Having free same day delivery is a life-changer, but Amazon needs to improve a lot.
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  Ah so that's why that has been happening lately. Makes sense.
- BlytheSchuma 9y ago
  I've never had anything like that happen to me. But UPS and Fedex have done much worse by me in the past. This is a welcomed addition the the delivery market in my book.
- 9y ago
driver45 9y ago
I'm
peterwwillis 9y ago
Nobody at USPS has explained to me yet why the USPS carriers were instructed never to hold Amazon packages at the distribution center if someone wasn't home to receive them. Maybe this is part of why?
turtlebits 9y ago
As a counterpoint to all the negative comments about AMZL (Amazon Logistics), I've never had an issue with them, and generally order 10+ items from Amazon a month. That said, I don't look at how my order is being delivered (generally it's UPS and OnTrac). My only issue is that I'll see random cars driving slowly through my neighborhood (probably looking for the right house number to deliver to), which usually triggers me to think of suspicious activity.
gorpomon 9y ago
I have two initial thoughts, at odds with each other. 1. Thus began the tale of the company that did too many things... 2. Ah, just like they turned their own cloud expertise into AWS, they're turning their logistics into its own offering, brilliant!
Splines 9y ago
This is an interesting strategy. The "build a service for internal use, then make it a service" strategy worked for them with AWS and web stores, but it failed for Amazon Fresh (but they are trying to turn it around with Whole Foods), and now they're trying again with shipping logistics. Personally I've found them so-so, and certainly not great. I frequently get calls from drivers that are lost that can't find my new-ish street and need some help. It's certainly fine that the first one gets lost, but when the second one gets lost it's apparent that the organization isn't building up any knowledge about hard-to-find customers. This is a moat they could build, but they're not interested.
tomcam 9y ago
Maybe they’ll learn how to deliver packages in the promised timeframe at some point!
Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
If you regularly have troubles with AMZL failing to deliver packages, look into Amazon Lockers. I always get my Amazon packages delivered to a locker. 0% chance of failed delivery, 0% change of a package getting stolen. It might be a little inconvenient to not have your stuff delivered to your door, but the inconvenience is trumped by the peace of mind. Though personally, I'm lucky that my daily commute passes right by a locker, so there's no inconvenience.
Dowwie 9y ago
This bet depends entirely on Amazon's ability to prevent unionized labor.
k__ 9y ago
And they probably have to. The quality of delivery services went downhill in the last years. :/
yeukhon 9y ago
Amazon’s ambition is getting a little, hmm, out of hand. Eventually Amazon has to split up its businesses into multiple subsidies like Alphabet and Google. It is dangerous for a single company to hold such high valuation forever. Although I have to admit, Amazon’s top managment seems very competent... perhaps I am wrong about the whole danger.
Zigurd 9y ago
Recently I complained that UPS left a valuable package at the end of my long, and somewhat snowy but recently plowed driveway. The oil deliver, the USPS, and the plumber were all able to make it up the driveway. The response I got from UPS was pathetic and passive aggressive: my driver will no longer even try to get up my driveway. I suspect Amazon gets a lot of similar complaints with similarly unsatisfactory outcomes.
yason 9y ago
I much prefer an Amazon Locker, or the equivalent postal self-service lockers in my country. I hate the synchronicity of home deliveries. Either I'm at work and not home, or somewhere else but not home. And if I'm home I still have to plan around the expected delivery to be around so that I can sign it off. With self-pickups it easy. Once I know the package has been delivered I'll just do a little bit of planning to get it on my way next time I'm out. Deliveries are hard. That's why all logistics and delivery companies are famous for giving bad service because it's nearly impossible to repeatedly do well on such an unforgiving line of work. And this is from companies that have decades of experience to organise deliveries. I'm not holding my breath with Amazon's own deliveries.
- jessriedel 9y ago
  "Little bit of planning" is not easy for me, or for anyone who values the immediacy of Prime. The obvious solution is to have lockers at homes, i.e., a secured box on your property that only delivery people to whom you've given a code can open. You can even introduce this concurrently with smart locks, so people who feel comfortable with it can just give the delivery guy a one-time code that opens the front door. I know this has been experimented with, and I'm sure their are challenges, bit I've never been able to understand how it hasn't been worth solving.
  - wallacoloo 9y ago
    > The obvious solution is to have lockers at homes It's not uncommon to see this around dense housing. I've seen apartments where each unit has a small mail box, and there are (say) a dozen larger lockers off to the side. When USPS needs to deliver a package, they put it in one of the lockers, and then put the key to that locker in the recipient's mail box. I suppose the system assumes that none of your neighbors clone those keys, but it seems at least a step in the right direction.
stinky613 9y ago
I think it's pretty telling that there are 200 comments here and not a single one praises AMZL. I think I saw one person who said he/she hadn't had any specifically bad experiences with AMZL, but that most of his/her deliveries are UPS anyway. The phrase "piss-poor" comes to mind.
altotrees 9y ago
I have had Amazon folks in my neighborhood: leave packages on the sidewalk, throw packages over fences and ask me for a tip. These are antecdotal, but if Amazon wants to catch up to a company like UPS, they have a ton of ground to make up. Delivering packages is really hard work, believe it or not, and underpaying someone to do it isn't going to bring about the results you're after, guaranteed.
- 013a 9y ago
  Same. I've personally ran into amazon delivery people lost in our apartment complex, badged them into the building, and walked them to where they should drop off packages. I'd feel like it was a one time thing, but it seems like every week they've got a new guy delivering here, and its a tossup whether they're properly trained to know what to do. Meanwhile, the same USPS guy has been coming here for 3 years.
  - vadym909 9y ago
    They use an Uber like model with gigsters to do deliveries which is why you encounter different people https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-delivery-driver-like-work-tech-giants-citizen-package-brigade/ https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-delivery-driver-like-wo...
    - romwell 9y ago
      Well, any notion of a mailman who knows things goes out the window with this model. Good luck to those whose delivery location can't be easily located in the real world using <map app of the day>.
      - twothamendment 9y ago
        That is a problem. Our UPS driver has his own map of the area because there are so many addresses that don't map. I doubt gigster type is going to put in that much effort.
debt 9y ago
This feels like Google Fiber aka something that seems easy and ripe for disruption but has many insanely complex and intertwined subproblems that prevent most new players from actually disrupting it.
grondilu 9y ago
This method of allowing the delivery man to open the door to deposit the package inside is puzzling me. Why not having larger mailboxes? Possibly removable ones? Like a box that you would hang on your door whenever you expect a delivery?
thisisit 9y ago
IMO news items like these are kind of indicative that we are approaching a stock market top. If Amazon feels that they need another "diversification" to generate more returns then we might be near a bull run high where everyone needs to go out of their comfort zone to make large returns.
kaonashi 9y ago
Won't use it unless it's unionized.

421 points by artsandsci 9y ago

The Microsoft Zune of delivery?

When Amazon completely dominates the online market and all its aspects, wouldn't it be in a GREAT position to charge customers much much more? Would it still need to be "competitive"?

ProAm 9y ago
This is what they did to all the prices on Amazon. Started cheap or at a loss and now prices are equal to or more expensive than going to a normal store.
- overcast 9y ago
  Examples? Certainly nothing I purchase regularly is cheaper in a store. Especially considering the inconvenience of a store, and 5% cashback on everything.
  - mrguyorama 9y ago
    Specifically, a package of 3 bars of Cetaphil soap in my local walmart is less than 10$ to walk out the door with. Compare that to prices on amazon that range from the same price as in store, to over $20 with shipping excluded! Another example, this time a slightly more bulk item, is ramen noodles [0]. They are around 20 cents a noodle in local stores, while amazon lists them around 50 cents per noodle (even in large 36 packs) [0] https://www.amazon.com/Maruchan-chicken-noodle-soup-pack/dp/B00MHBX8AE/ref=sr_1_17_s_it?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1518203407&sr=1-17&keywords=ramen https://www.amazon.com/Maruchan-chicken-noodle-soup-pack/dp/...
    - overcast 9y ago
      Oh, I don't buy day to day grocery store stuff on Amazon.
      - mrguyorama 9y ago
        I was keying off of your "purchase regularly" comment. Either way, the only products that amazon seems to offer at a reasonably competitive price, factoring in shipping, is amazon basics items, and that's because they can do to the supply chain the same thing walmart did.
        overcast 9y ago
        Eh. Books, water filters, video games, camera lenses/filters, bags, lawn fertilizer, shoes, movies. All of that stuff is definitely cheaper on amazon than anywhere else. Big ticket items especially. Factor in 5% back, and you get most of your tax, or straight up 5% off tax free items. Can't really beat 2day prime shipping, and no hassle returns.
        astura 9y ago
        When was the last time you actually comparison shopped? I don't find Amazon's prices to be particularly great in those categories, more than "average to poor." Your "free two day shipping" isn't free, it's prepaid. For electronics, for example, I find that Newegg provides much better service and lightning fast shipping at compatible prices. Also "stores" deliver too (target.com, walmart.com, bestbuy.com, etc).
        overcast 9y ago
        I comparison shop EVERY item I purchase. I used to be a hardcore shopper on Newegg, Amazon will consistently beat them. Newegg went down that messy third party route, and it's been a disaster ever since. The shipping is hit or miss, Shoprunner is rarely supported since they began offering their version of prime, whatever it's called. I have "Keepa" notifiers on everything, and catch lightning/warehouse/price drops on everything. I'm definitely not going to go digging around Walmart/Target daily for $5 BluRay titles.
  - allenu 9y ago
    A PS4 1TB Slim is $320 right now. Target has it for $300. During the holidays, they and retailers sold it for $250. After the holidays, I watched slowly as the price started rising each week. Retailers jumped back up to $300, but Amazon was at $270, then $290, and now strangely $320.
    - overcast 9y ago
      As always, shop around. Amazon usually wins out for me.

chomp 9y ago

>If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead. Not me. I hate their Prime Now drivers and pretty often get things delivered to the wrong house, or not show up at all when my Amazon things are delivered through them. I don't think they will be able to replicate UPS's strong delivery service and employee benefits, and also don't think the savings will be passed to the consumer. All in all, I think everyone except Amazon loses in this deal.

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago

I'd like to know how Amazon manages and organizes themselves with respect to leadership, teams, hierarchy, knowledge sharing and integration between different internal and external groups with everything they do and all of their business units. The fact that they succeed here is more amazing than any of the tech.

losteric 9y ago
In my experience, Amazon is very good about focusing managers on facilitating talent and trusting engineers with implementation. Not in all orgs, granted, but the innovative / experimental ones are very engineering driven... even the managers generally have some first-hand engineering experience. They're also good about keeping projects under single org trees - senior engineers act as executors of the VP's will, bypassing slow human management chains. If a team slips on their roadmap, the senior engineer can immediately intervene to provide unblocking advice (possibly looping in other experts) and coordinating scheduling changes with dependent teams... that shadow technical hierarchy is very powerful. It's let some VPs / directors reorg every couple months to shift out bad people managers, knowing tactical implementation isn't being interrupted. Knowledge management... I've heard Google is much better. Amazon's infrastructure is well documented, but bleeding-edge projects can be hit-or-miss. Their forte is strong separation of responsibilities... which usually means tribal knowledge. edit: I say "engineering" because I am one... but it's not just engineering. Amazon management focuses on hiring smart people they can trust to operate autonomously. That means less bureaucratic red tape, flat(ish) management chains, and effective direct communication. Talking "through" management, escalation, is a seen as a last-resort.
petra 9y ago
The key to Amazon's organization is that they are built deeply on the startup mentality, where a small group of talented people that go after an opportunity, give them access to great tools/platforms/data via standard building blocks like AWS/FBA/Amazon's site and data and actually everything at amazon is built of microservices(they can mix and match), allow them to experiment but measure performance, push for speed, and don't put any bureaucracy on them. And once it's time for scaling, Amazon is great at that. And of course, if it's possible, create new building blocks for the next startups. But also, a big part of Amazon is risk management. Building platforms(like FBA), that leaves the risky stuff(like importing) to others. And using the data from that platform to reduce risks for it's own startups.

MBCook 9y ago

Will? I’ve gotten two or three packages this way. On the plus side you get a picture of the package at your door (or whatever) so you know they left it. But it doesn’t integrate well with my delivery tracking app. They don’t know to drop packages at the package desk at my apartment complex instead of leaving them on my doorstep to be stolen. Interesting to see them go more vertical though.

speg 9y ago
Are those third party contractors or an Amazon service? Here we have some random guys driving around in their own cars throwing packages on your stoop. This sounds like a more formal courier operated by Amazon themselves.
- MBCook 9y ago
  I get the feeling it’s a real service, not just random contracts to couriers. But I’ve never been home to meet one when a package got delivered so I’m not sure. It may be a mix right now for all I know.
- grapeshot 9y ago
  Amazon operates the delivery center. Most drivers are subcontracted through a couple different messenger companies and use rented Ford Transits, and the randos in their own cars take care of the rest.

beckler 9y ago

I used to work for a company that did logistic software, and Amazon creating their own last-mile service was something they predicted years ago. It's a nightmare for them because it will ultimately take business away from every carrier, and more sellers will ultimately want to use Amazon's service over time. The margins in shipping are already razor-thin, and Amazon would easily be able to take the loss to choke other competitors out.

pythonaut_16 9y ago
If Amazon takes a loss on their shipping service that could very directly open them to an anti-trust investigation
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  The current political climate makes the risk calculus lean towards the "do illegal thing" direction
bob_theslob646 9y ago
Can you post a source about the carriers margins being paper thin because looking at the last annual reports for FedEx and UPS, it doesn't seem to be the case. The biggest expense for them is labor and I think Amazon is going to do a good job of controlling that cost. Goodbye Teamsters.
- beckler 9y ago
  Sorry, guess I should of been more specific. Margin is thin per package, because shipping is a volume game. Sending a package is actually pretty cheap for most businesses, but unless you have volume, you have no leverage to get a reduced rate.

dewski 9y ago

When I see a delivery coming from Amazon I know I won’t get it until 5-6PM or even later. UPS or FedEx have found a way to get it here by 10AM. It often results in delivery delays as well, FedEx and UPS deliveries for Amazon orders are rarely late. Maybe it’s due to more drivers and trucks, but so far I’m not a fan of Amazons delivery and would pay more not to use it.

tedivm 9y ago
It's definitely a regional thing. For us UPS is awful- we live on "first" street and they constantly deliver our packages to the same house number only on "second" street. Nothing is worse than finding out a package was shipped with OnTrac though.
op00to 9y ago
Opposite experience for me. AMZL - not same day, but normal next day or two day, will arrive between 7am and 11am. AMZL same day (some times another logistics company altogether and not AMZL) will generally come some time between 9PM and 8AM the next day, with almost all same day packages actually arriving the next day (meaning a free month of Prime for me, plus refund of the shipping charges, and occasionally a gift card to shut me up.)
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Tempest1981 9y ago
I ordered something at 10pm, and OnTrac delivered it at 8am the next morning. I guess somebody has to be at the beginning of the route. :-) It's not consistent, but usually before 11am, whereas UPS is usually 5-8 pm.

JohnTHaller 9y ago

I hope they replace their Prime delivery routes first. UPS and FedEx are decent. Amazon's Prime delivery in NYC is awful. They toss packages near doors. Report attempting delivery and that no one was home without bothering to even show up at the building. Even the ones that actually deliver will hit every doorbell of a multi-unit apartment building until someone buzzes them and then open the front door and toss the box into the front hallway.

awakeasleep 9y ago
This hope seems to ride on the chance that Amazon gives its own drivers more time to deliver a package than they do for contractors they currently control. Seems just as likely the reverse will happen.

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mc32 9y ago

I hope they unionize quickly and then put in rules to not allow from me deliveries to take away union jobs. Have them play on an even field.

spiralpolitik 9y ago

So far my experience with Amazon's delivery service has been pretty negative. Expensive packages going missing, packages delivered to the wrong address, attempts to deliver packages to business addresses outside of business hours etc. Personally I would prefer the option of Amazon allowing me to pick the carrier I want to use rather than simply go with lowest cost. In most cases I value reliability over lower cost.

hackermailman 9y ago
I would rather to choose as well since I live directly beside carrier X pickup point, but they always use carrier Y which means driving across the city to get it. The Amazon delivery drivers always harass you as well, phoning multiple times and totally perplexed you have a job and can't be home to pick something up demanding a time for redelivery on the spot which means I have to stop what I'm doing and screw around with my schedule. Either let me enter precise time windows for delivery, get pickup spots or let me choose the shipping company which is the easiest, I don't care about the extra $5 if it means I'm not spending half my Saturday in traffic to get a book.
pythonaut_16 9y ago
I ordered a graphics card from Newegg back in November and it got shipped via FedEx. What was really nice with Fedex was that I could have it shipped to my house, or pick from any FedEx or several Walgreens locations for pickup. Since it was an expensive package I chose to pick it up from a Walgreens near my office. Amazon's shipping is faster, but Newegg/FedEx shipping was a much better experience. It told me who was shipping the package up front and let me choose from several delivery options via that carrier.

swamplander 9y ago

Their service with their existing delivery service (Amazon Logistics) has been TERRIBLE thus far. Lazy drivers leaving packages in clear sight in the middle of the driveway, unreliable delivery estimates, etc. This last Christmas season, everything shipped from Amazon via UPS / FedEx arrived on time as expected. Everything Amazon shipped via their AMZN Logistics / USPS was late, 50% arrived after Christmas even when ordered on December 14. We've stopped shopping at Amazon in favor of other vendors who let you pick your shipping service. Their customer service just keeps collecting information, but it's not getting any better. > If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead. You get what you pay for... I'll avoid Amazon until I can pick my own RELIABLE carrier. UPS & FedEx have shown they are reliable.

mathgeek 9y ago
We also canceled a few hundred dollars worth of monthly deliveries once Amazon started using USPS to deliver them. Having to go to the post office to pick up larger boxes because they were too big to be delivered to our home meant it was easier to just go buy the stuff ourselves.
- driverdan 9y ago
  > too big to be delivered to our home That's a thing? I've had tons of large packages delivered via USPS and have never had them hold something for being too big. Are you in an apt complex that doesn't have a package pickup area?
  - mathgeek 9y ago
    It's a smaller post office.
leesalminen 9y ago
After fighting with chat/phone support for months, I finally emailed jeff@amazon with a lengthy message recounting my recent shipping experiences with USPS. They removed USPS as an option from my account. Everything now comes from UPS/FedEx. It may be worth noting that I spend roughly one order of magnitude more than their average prime customer annually (work equipment).

jacek 9y ago

IMO this is very bad news for the economy. Amazon will do very well as a delivery service, because unlike competition they have underpaid and overworked deliverers. They basically uberified delivery. The costs are much lower, but delivery jobs will shift to low paid, no benefits 'gigs'. Amazon is more and more scary as it monopolizes more and more businesses.

philfrasty 9y ago
„...unlike competition they have underpaid and overworked deliverers...“# This is a pretty accurate general description of the delivery industry per se, not Amazon specific.
- fitchjo 9y ago
  Wouldn't that be an indication that the wages are at market?
  - nawgszy 9y ago
    >at market Ah yes, the calling card of people that think systematic exploitation of workers in a global economy where only the top few are gaining wealth is fine because "free market rules" matter in a world full of regulatory capture and industries with too high of a barrier to entry to foster true competition.
    - Godel_unicode 9y ago
      > high of a barrier to entry to foster true competition. The article is literally about true competition being attempted in a high-moat business.
      - addicted 9y ago
        This isn't true competition. This is vertical integration. Amazon isn't offering to deliver Walmart packages for a price.

wonder_bread 9y ago

Under/Over 10 years after Bezos retires, does Amazon end up looking like GE does now? This spree of Amazon getting into markets that are already at near-perfect competition levels is a bit worrying. How many people could reasonably handle a business this complicated, with so many competitors?

phil21 9y ago
> This spree of Amazon getting into markets that are already at near-perfect competition levels Is this true? Retail shipping is not nearly that competitive, at least from a very naive consumer standpoint looking in. Amazon can ship stuff at 20-30% of the cost I would pay as a small business to UPS. Using UPS. Seems like there is a ton of margin there to be captured.
- ashelmire 9y ago
  Shipping is very competitive. These are some of the most seasoned and efficient businesses, by necessity, in the world. If Amazon is shipping things cheaper, it's because they are using it as a loss leader. You don't really think it costs them $0 to ship things, do you?
  - phil21 9y ago
    > If Amazon is shipping things cheaper, it's because they are using it as a loss leader. You don't really think it costs them $0 to ship things, do you? No, I'm specifically talking about actual dollars paid to UPS. I run (ran) a small business, and we shipped about a pallet or two (overall) a week. Amazon's leaked UPS rates a few years back were about 30% of our already heavily discounted (from what a retail customer would pay) rates. Where did the $0 shipping comment come from? You also can commit to a spend with Fedex/UPS of relatively small amounts (4 figures/mo) and get an immediate and painless 25-40% off immediately. Like I said there is a lot of margin there, at least in certain segments of the business. I'm just not sure how much or where exactly the costs are (there may be very legitimate reasons why serving Amazon costs less than half of serving me) to know if there is a retail cost play.
9y ago

skulloking 9y ago

I... honestly thought they already had.

arstin 9y ago

I order something or other from Amazon every couple weeks and, living in Chicago, have often gotten it via Amazon delivery for a year or two now. It just seems like one problem after another: not actually dropping the package off, hiding the package in a crevice between buildings, very often not arriving when quoted, rude calls from drivers because I'm not at home. Add to this problems with worker pay and treatment, and I'll stick to UPS whenever possible.

resoluteteeth 9y ago

This bgr article has unfortunately completely misunderstood what the news is. > Amazon may be a one stop shop for home goods, electronics, furniture, clothing and more, but in order to actually get items to your home, the e-commerce giant has to depend on delivery services like FedEx and UPS No, amazon already has its own logistics company that operates in many locations. The news is that it is now going to offer this to as a service to ship other companies' packages. From the linked WSJ article: > Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon,” or SWA, the new service will entail the tech giant picking up packages from businesses and shipping them to consumers, according to people familiar with the matter.

sib 9y ago
From the bgr article: > Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon” (SWA), the service will pick up packages from businesses and deliver them to customers. > Sources claims that Amazon will begin rolling out the service in Los Angeles within the next few weeks in Los Angeles with third-party sellers that do business through Amazon.com. Seems like the same news.
- cholantesh 9y ago
  If so, the bgr article's author has not expressed it clearly.

neverminder 9y ago

Amazon Prime delivers it's own orders in London for quite a while now. The good: delivers 7 days a week, fairly reliably. The bad: no delivery window email like DPD does, their live tracking map is just useless.

dbbk 9y ago
Amazon has had its own delivery service for a long time. This news is about Amazon operating delivery for external packages, not just Prime products.
kennydude 9y ago
It's all over the UK. Anyone with a car or van can do it. Amazon doesn't "deliver it's own orders", it's given to a contractor.
- CraigRood 9y ago
  Not sure if that's the case? I travel past a Amazon Prime Now Warehouse occasionally and they always have loads of white vans parked.

Damogran6 9y ago

Amazon logistics has a habit around here of delivering packages at 11pm to make the delivery day requirements...I can't help but feel it's yet another huge organization wringing out their employees because hey, employees are expendable.

caffed 9y ago

Just to chime in here about how terrible and unaccountable the delivery service is - I bought a part for my bike that on first attempt went to the wrong intermediate routing center. They marked it as undeliverable instead of just rerouting it. I had to get a refund and was promised a $25 credit to my next purchase. That didn’t happen. I ordered the same item again. It was lost in transit. Got refund with no credit. It took the third try to get my item. I selected same day delivery on the previous two but not the third. I live in San Francisco and the item was in their Fremont fullfillment center. So....?

pythonaut_16 9y ago
If they didn't give you a credit that promised you should follow up and hold them accountable. They should have logs of account actions, and if not, you should save a log of the chat where it was promised.
- tomalpha 9y ago
  Further to this, my £10 credit for missed deliveries could only be applied to items sold by and shipped from Amazon. No third party sellers. It also only showed up right at the end of the checkout process just before the final click. Mentioning because I both thought I hadn’t been credited with it (first time of chasing Amazon I actually hadn’t it turned out...) and then was miffed I could only use it on a subset of items.
- deleted 9y ago
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neuroticfish 9y ago

I'm sure there are a ton of reasons Amazon chose not to build HQ2 in Memphis, TN but I think this was the primary.

MatthewWilkes 9y ago

It's interesting reading the comments in this thread as they seem to be very much from a US standpoint. Here in the UK it's rare for Amazon packages to be sent by anything other than Amazon Logistics. There are issues with misdelivery or leaving things in plain view, but the same is true of their competitors such as Yodel. The difference with Amazon is that even if they've taken a photo of a safe place as 'proof' of delivery for an item they don't argue if you report it as undelivered. Prime gives you free next day delivery, including outside of business hours and weekends, and sometimes free same day depending on their logistics. Overall, buying from Amazon and having them deliver it is a better than average experience.

euyyn 9y ago
Completely different management, probably. My experience with Amazon Logistics in the US is horrible too, worse of the carriers by a big margin.
beckler 9y ago
Logistics in the UK are quite different than in the US. In fact, I always thought the UK was a bit more innovative when it came to shipping. For example, shipping lockers are still quite new in the US. In fact, I think Amazon owns the only lockers I've ever seen in person. As a side note, I will also apologize if you've ever used Yodel, since a small part of my development efforts went towards their early logistics systems.
makomk 9y ago
It's possible that part of the difference is that here in the UK, the competitors are often companies like Yodel that had already taken the same gig-economy, overworked subcontractors with unrealistic targets approach that Amazon have.
stordoff 9y ago
According to the Yodel driver who delivers to us, they are paid a rather small per-parcel fee and expected to make an almost unreasonable number of deliveries in a certain timeframe. They already have the same factors that are likely responsible for pushing the quality of Amazon's service down.

bg4 9y ago

Do we really need Amazon Everything?

williamgrosset 9y ago
> "Amazon has reportedly been working on making its own logistics network a reality after a disappointing holiday season in 2013 during which countless packages were delivered late." From their perspective, seems a bit necessary.

CodeSheikh 9y ago

..to complete with FedEX, UPS and USPS, with later one being the worst of them all. Amazon has been stockpiling used cargo aircrafts for some time now in Seattle (hint..hint) and creating a delivery service at grass root city level makes much more sense for them because 1) you are not relying to ship goods from your regional warehouses often 2) this helps you get tax benefits by bringing in delivery jobs locally 3) expedited shipping of common use products such toilet papers, toothpaste etc that do not need to get shipped from regional warehouses. A lot of time your late delivery complaint just ended up you getting a $5 credit or a month waiver from your annual prime membership because Amazon can't hold USPS delivery guy accountable as it can to one of its own.

badgers 9y ago

Nothing new here [1], they've been doing this for the past 5+ years. They are still at least half a decade away from taking away any significant volume from FedEx or UPS. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12600094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12600094

pier25 9y ago

Here in Mexico Amazon has been getting contracts with crappy local couriers and the experience has been negative. DHL always did a great job in my area.

edgarvaldes 9y ago
Yesterday I received a package in Mexico (from Amazon Mexico), the delivery man arrived in a private car. I was puzzled by the fact, but the package was fine, and delivered in time.

spdustin 9y ago

Amazon's delivery service now (in my area, anyway) takes a photo of the package once it's placed on your doorstep, and the Amazon iPhone app confirmation includes a notice showing the photo. It's been a nice feature for me, until one driver put the package on my front porch, but then too, a photo from their car of my entire house as the delivery confirmation photo.

darethas 9y ago
This doesn't really seem that innovative to me -- even the postal service can send you an email of what is in your mailbox.
- op00to 9y ago
  It solves the biggest problem that I had with AMZL, which is when the courier claims they delivered a package when they didn't. What happens is that the same day couriers will get overloaded and be unable to finish their routes by the 9PM delivery deadline, so they'll just drive by and mark delivered (I think it's a GPS thing) and then drop it off in the morning. Some times they never deliver it at all. The picture eliminates this bullshit, as they must show the package on my doorstep. I haven't had this problem since AMZL started taking pictures, but I also haven't tried Same Day delivery as much. I'll have to give it another shot to see what happens.

efsavage 9y ago

I would actually pay extra, to Amazon, for Amazon not to deliver their own package, the service is that bad.

mixmastamyk 9y ago

Amzn shipping has changed for the much worse in the last two years, guessing to prioritize prime customers? We used to get our items shipped promptly and they would arrive slowly but surely in about a week. You would see progress at e.g. ups/usps. Now they sit on your order for a week then send it and it arrives in two weeks. If you call and complain they will two-day ship it. Much less progress is visible as well, leaving you to wonder the whole time and bother support. How can that make any financial sense? How can sitting on it for a week make sense? They still have to deliver all the packages, now they’re a week behind. Have done business with them for ~20 years and considering another merchant where treated with respect.

cephaslr 9y ago

Between launching a delivery service to compete with FedEx/UPS/etc and a health service to compete with Cigna/UHG/etc I wonder if Amazon is starting to overreach? Perhaps this thread also supports this theory with some (admittedly small) antidotal evidence its Amazon retail issues?

vasili111 9y ago

I think Amazon needs at least 2 real competitors.

Feniks 9y ago

Postal service in my country is good enough to guarantee next day delivery without Amazon Prime bullshit. Free delivery Amazon, get on it.

dangerboysteve 9y ago
well if the size of your country fits into most US states that's not a real accomplishment. Reduced land mass and a mature postal system... you would expect that.

kbos87 9y ago

FedEx and UPS should have cut Amazon off while they could still kill them.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
Or bought them / merged.

ecommerceguy 9y ago

Good. Hopefully this will unclog UPS during q4.

sgolestane 9y ago

We've been having problem with packages stink with cigarette smell to the point that we have to open the packages outside of the house and the wash our hands.

amelius 9y ago

FedEx and UPS had an opportunity there, to start their own online marketplace, and compete Amazon out of existence. But the window is closing, and now they will have the same thing happening to them. And it will be another instance of winner takes all.

grad_ml 9y ago

Amazon can think they will build fedex in next 1 year. I think they're out of their depth. Building software is much different than building manual labour centric systems. Their efforts will be fruitless. To build a shopping website, where things are pretty much well interfaced, it took them, 20 years. Though, they do deserve credit for AWS. Again human systems aren't analogues to software system. They have fortune to spent, so let's spent.

deleted 9y ago
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jethro_tell 9y ago
Don't they have a few hundred thousand manual labor employees already?
Skunkleton 9y ago
They aren't building a FedEx in the next year. They already have have a logistics service, they are just opening it to third parties that aren't part of amazon marketplace.
- grad_ml 9y ago
  Please read the implicit sarcasm.

oh_sigh 9y ago

Funny, my director at amazon laughed when I presented this idea in 2010, and guess who I see is working on this project via linked in?

ironix 9y ago

Their delivery service is frustrating. It seems to be the norm, and accepted, that drivers will mark packages delivered a full 24 hours ahead of time and do the delivery the next day, presumably to meet delivery requirements. I've also had these individuals basically solicit me for a tip, recounting how they're underpaid, etc. I really don't like this move to try to uber-ify package delivery. UPS/FedEx have their bad moments, but at least I don't have to worry that the employees are under too much duress to deliver, or are on the edge of unreasonably compensated.

twblalock 9y ago
One Amazon delivery guy knocked on my door so aggressively around 7am that I thought he was trying to break in.
- gumby 9y ago
  I had one earlier this week call my phone repeatedly before 6 AM (breaking through the "do not disturb) to complain he couldn't find one of my packages in his car.
NickGerleman 9y ago
I've been in Seattle for around a month and can completely agree with this. One time half of an order went to a wrong apartment, and the other half came the next day. UPS and related have access codes to get into the building where Amazon doesn't. Having free same day delivery is a life-changer, but Amazon needs to improve a lot.
hyperbovine 9y ago
Ah so that's why that has been happening lately. Makes sense.
BlytheSchuma 9y ago
I've never had anything like that happen to me. But UPS and Fedex have done much worse by me in the past. This is a welcomed addition the the delivery market in my book.
9y ago

driver45 9y ago

I'm

peterwwillis 9y ago

Nobody at USPS has explained to me yet why the USPS carriers were instructed never to hold Amazon packages at the distribution center if someone wasn't home to receive them. Maybe this is part of why?

turtlebits 9y ago

As a counterpoint to all the negative comments about AMZL (Amazon Logistics), I've never had an issue with them, and generally order 10+ items from Amazon a month. That said, I don't look at how my order is being delivered (generally it's UPS and OnTrac). My only issue is that I'll see random cars driving slowly through my neighborhood (probably looking for the right house number to deliver to), which usually triggers me to think of suspicious activity.

gorpomon 9y ago

I have two initial thoughts, at odds with each other. 1. Thus began the tale of the company that did too many things... 2. Ah, just like they turned their own cloud expertise into AWS, they're turning their logistics into its own offering, brilliant!

Splines 9y ago

This is an interesting strategy. The "build a service for internal use, then make it a service" strategy worked for them with AWS and web stores, but it failed for Amazon Fresh (but they are trying to turn it around with Whole Foods), and now they're trying again with shipping logistics. Personally I've found them so-so, and certainly not great. I frequently get calls from drivers that are lost that can't find my new-ish street and need some help. It's certainly fine that the first one gets lost, but when the second one gets lost it's apparent that the organization isn't building up any knowledge about hard-to-find customers. This is a moat they could build, but they're not interested.

tomcam 9y ago

Maybe they’ll learn how to deliver packages in the promised timeframe at some point!

Sohcahtoa82 9y ago

If you regularly have troubles with AMZL failing to deliver packages, look into Amazon Lockers. I always get my Amazon packages delivered to a locker. 0% chance of failed delivery, 0% change of a package getting stolen. It might be a little inconvenient to not have your stuff delivered to your door, but the inconvenience is trumped by the peace of mind. Though personally, I'm lucky that my daily commute passes right by a locker, so there's no inconvenience.

Dowwie 9y ago

This bet depends entirely on Amazon's ability to prevent unionized labor.

k__ 9y ago

And they probably have to. The quality of delivery services went downhill in the last years. :/

yeukhon 9y ago

Amazon’s ambition is getting a little, hmm, out of hand. Eventually Amazon has to split up its businesses into multiple subsidies like Alphabet and Google. It is dangerous for a single company to hold such high valuation forever. Although I have to admit, Amazon’s top managment seems very competent... perhaps I am wrong about the whole danger.

Zigurd 9y ago

Recently I complained that UPS left a valuable package at the end of my long, and somewhat snowy but recently plowed driveway. The oil deliver, the USPS, and the plumber were all able to make it up the driveway. The response I got from UPS was pathetic and passive aggressive: my driver will no longer even try to get up my driveway. I suspect Amazon gets a lot of similar complaints with similarly unsatisfactory outcomes.

yason 9y ago

I much prefer an Amazon Locker, or the equivalent postal self-service lockers in my country. I hate the synchronicity of home deliveries. Either I'm at work and not home, or somewhere else but not home. And if I'm home I still have to plan around the expected delivery to be around so that I can sign it off. With self-pickups it easy. Once I know the package has been delivered I'll just do a little bit of planning to get it on my way next time I'm out. Deliveries are hard. That's why all logistics and delivery companies are famous for giving bad service because it's nearly impossible to repeatedly do well on such an unforgiving line of work. And this is from companies that have decades of experience to organise deliveries. I'm not holding my breath with Amazon's own deliveries.

jessriedel 9y ago
"Little bit of planning" is not easy for me, or for anyone who values the immediacy of Prime. The obvious solution is to have lockers at homes, i.e., a secured box on your property that only delivery people to whom you've given a code can open. You can even introduce this concurrently with smart locks, so people who feel comfortable with it can just give the delivery guy a one-time code that opens the front door. I know this has been experimented with, and I'm sure their are challenges, bit I've never been able to understand how it hasn't been worth solving.
- wallacoloo 9y ago
  > The obvious solution is to have lockers at homes It's not uncommon to see this around dense housing. I've seen apartments where each unit has a small mail box, and there are (say) a dozen larger lockers off to the side. When USPS needs to deliver a package, they put it in one of the lockers, and then put the key to that locker in the recipient's mail box. I suppose the system assumes that none of your neighbors clone those keys, but it seems at least a step in the right direction.

stinky613 9y ago

I think it's pretty telling that there are 200 comments here and not a single one praises AMZL. I think I saw one person who said he/she hadn't had any specifically bad experiences with AMZL, but that most of his/her deliveries are UPS anyway. The phrase "piss-poor" comes to mind.

altotrees 9y ago

I have had Amazon folks in my neighborhood: leave packages on the sidewalk, throw packages over fences and ask me for a tip. These are antecdotal, but if Amazon wants to catch up to a company like UPS, they have a ton of ground to make up. Delivering packages is really hard work, believe it or not, and underpaying someone to do it isn't going to bring about the results you're after, guaranteed.

013a 9y ago
Same. I've personally ran into amazon delivery people lost in our apartment complex, badged them into the building, and walked them to where they should drop off packages. I'd feel like it was a one time thing, but it seems like every week they've got a new guy delivering here, and its a tossup whether they're properly trained to know what to do. Meanwhile, the same USPS guy has been coming here for 3 years.
- vadym909 9y ago
  They use an Uber like model with gigsters to do deliveries which is why you encounter different people https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-delivery-driver-like-work-tech-giants-citizen-package-brigade/ https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-delivery-driver-like-wo...
  - romwell 9y ago
    Well, any notion of a mailman who knows things goes out the window with this model. Good luck to those whose delivery location can't be easily located in the real world using <map app of the day>.
    - twothamendment 9y ago
      That is a problem. Our UPS driver has his own map of the area because there are so many addresses that don't map. I doubt gigster type is going to put in that much effort.

debt 9y ago

This feels like Google Fiber aka something that seems easy and ripe for disruption but has many insanely complex and intertwined subproblems that prevent most new players from actually disrupting it.

grondilu 9y ago

This method of allowing the delivery man to open the door to deposit the package inside is puzzling me. Why not having larger mailboxes? Possibly removable ones? Like a box that you would hang on your door whenever you expect a delivery?

thisisit 9y ago

IMO news items like these are kind of indicative that we are approaching a stock market top. If Amazon feels that they need another "diversification" to generate more returns then we might be near a bull run high where everyone needs to go out of their comfort zone to make large returns.

kaonashi 9y ago

Won't use it unless it's unionized.