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Apple Reports First Quarter Results

151 points by mcone 9y ago

anw 9y ago
> We’re thrilled to report the biggest quarter in Apple’s history, with broad-based growth that included the highest revenue ever from a new iPhone lineup. iPhone X surpassed our expectations and has been our top-selling iPhone every week since it shipped in November This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. > The Company posted quarterly revenue of $88.3 billion, an increase of 13 percent from the year-ago quarter and an all-time record, and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $3.89, up 16 percent, also an all-time record. As much as I see people deride the touchbar or the iPhone X notch, it seems consumers are at least willing to take a chance and try out something new.
- david-cako 9y ago
  Yeah if someone could explain the disparity between this press release and the general narrative that would be sweet. When the iPX first launched the narrative was "holy shit this phone is flying off the shelves", since then OLED stock has been falling (really good time to buy tbh), apple cuts back production, and the narrative has gone sour. What gives?
  - jasonlotito 9y ago
    So, without taking a side, the part quoted doesn't conflict with what the press is saying. 1. highest revenue ever from a new iPhone lineup It's also the most expensive. Simply put, they could sell fewer iPhone Xs and still make more revenue simply because of the increased price. So even with the highest revenue, it could still be lackluster in quantity sold, as well as what the profit is like. 2. [iPhone X] has been our top-selling iPhone every week since it shipped in November It simply needs to sell more the other iPhones during the same time period. This makes sense, as it was released later than the iPhone 8. You could make the assumption that the majority of everyone that wanted an iPhone 8 would have bought one prior to the iPhone X being released. For here, a better comparison would have been units sold of a new iPhone and if it beat that. Again, I'm not suggesting it's a failure or a success, merely trying to look at the quote objectively and what it says, and what that really means.
  - georgeecollins 9y ago
    Apple sold fewer phones than analysts expected, and fewer than they did last year. They sold 77.3m phones, and analysts expected them to sell 80.2m. They had greater revenue because the average price of phones has gone up. Apple issued guidance for this quarter that they expected revenue to be $60-62b. Analysts expected revenue of $65.9b. Stocks are priced on the expectation of the future, so the change in the expectation has probably had a negative effect on the price. As an individual investor (disclosure: I own a little AAPL) I think it is foolish to worry quarterly earnings and revenue forecasts. Yet it is what people write about. It is easier to write about quarterly earnings then it is to write about industry trends, in the same way it is easier to write about polls than it is to write about policy. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/apple-forecast-falls-short-as-iphone-sales-miss-estimates https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/apple-for...
  - oflannabhra 9y ago
    The current, negative narrative around the iPhone X is based on supply chain rumors. We don't know what Apple's original orders to suppliers were, but the numbers in many rumors were: "Apple cuts production 50%, from 40M to 20M." Analysts try to tease these numbers from the supply chain, but Apple is notoriously opaque with their supply chain, and typically use multiple suppliers for the same part. As noted by @rjones [1], 2Q total units sold historically range between 50-52M. If Apple had originally placed orders in Q218 for 40M iPhone Xs, then either a) iPhone X is 80% of all iPhone sales, which is hard to believe because of the current lineup diversity, or b) Apple expects total unit sales for 2Q18 to be above 80M, which is hard to believe because of 1Q18 guidance. The better explanation is that Apple probably cut production for any number of reasons, but nowhere near as drastic as 50%. 20M is 40% of 51M, which would point to the iPhone X selling very well through 2Q18, and continuing to be the best-selling iPhone model. [1] - https://twitter.com/rjonesy/status/958421107245232128 https://twitter.com/rjonesy/status/958421107245232128
    - matwood 9y ago
      Exactly. Apple also has said the iPhoneX was a phone to show new technologies. It may not move into the second cheaper slot next gen, and instead may just go away. If that's the case then of course they are starting to figure out how to slow down production to prep for later this year.
- saagarjha 9y ago
  > This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. This happens every year when a new iPhone comes out. Contrarian news drives clicks.
  - jjtheblunt 9y ago
    More scandalously, contrarian news from "analysts" drives down share prices, which rebound healthfully after earnings, and the SEC really could have fun addressing this gaming of the market to the benefit of the analysts.
    - jacksmith21006 9y ago
      Not rebounding. Flat this morning and down from $180 earlier in 2018. Barclay new price target is $162 this morning. Also a couple downgrades "Apple gets two downgrades due to ‘dramatically’ slowing iPhone X demand" https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/apple-gets-two-downgrades-due-to-dramatically-slowing-iphone-x-demand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/apple-gets-two-downgrades-du... From this morning after releasing results.
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    But iPhone unit sales did decline YoY for the quarter? Plus Q2 guidance was $60B versus consensus of $66B for Q2. The analyst and the reports seem accurate. Can you explain? It was never about Q1 but Q2 - Q4 and guidance. Apple is down from $180 in 2018 and flat this morning. Barclay new price target this morning is $162.
- smaili 9y ago
  > International sales accounted for 65 percent of the quarter’s revenue. Could be related to the above? Most of the publicity I've seen is domestic to US, but it's certainly possible overseas has a much different view on the iPhone X.
  - oflannabhra 9y ago
    iPhone ASP was up to $796. That indicates that the iPhone X sold very well.
  - netheril96 9y ago
    I’m a Chinese, and all of Chinese social media I read managed to convince me that it was finally the year of Apple’s decline.
- e1ven 9y ago
  We see this over and over - People guess how many iPhones Apple is selling, and predict a big problem. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/10/03/iphone-7-sales-first-two-weeks/#114ba6362342 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/10/03/iphone-7-...) Later, Apple releases numbers which suggest that it's selling great (https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-7-tim-cook-first-quarter-sales/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-7-tim-cook-first-quar...) I think maybe it's time to stop listening to "analysis" on their sales until there are real numbers.
  - coralreef 9y ago
    In the iPhone X's case its not analysis on sales, its leaked rumors of production cuts.
    - SG- 9y ago
      and this happens every year as they always cut them down after the initial major release.
    - beat 9y ago
      They probably put together a production cut plan just in case (as they should), and then someone finds out about it and assumes that because they made a plan to do a thing, that they're going to do a thing. Popular thinking can't really wrap its head around risk management.
      - MBCook 9y ago
        The normal Apple analysis people/sites have been discussing this. You can run into things where Apple likes to have multiple suppliers, so maybe they decide to cut their order with supplier A by 50% because they don’t think they’re doing well enough where they can get a better price somewhere else. Supplier A talks to a friend in the media and all of a sudden the story is that Apple has a big problem because their new phone isn’t selling. What no one is saying (possibly because as we all know Apple like secrecy and repolish them) is that supplier B had a 30% increase in orders from Apple, or supplier C is now coming online when they weren’t involved before. Since we don’t have the whole picture, it’s hard to know what’s actually going on outside of effectively one rumor. Or it could be stock manipulation.
- zmk_ 9y ago
  "top selling iPhone" is a relative statement, the whole pie can be shrinking and Apple could've hoped for more sales, but compared to other (8 and older) iPhones it is still doing good. The forecasts in the media were about the absolute levels not relative.
  - megy 9y ago
    Well, they sold 77.3m this quarter compared to 78.3m last quarter. The whole pie is shrinking, but by a tiny amount. But they made $7b more revenue from that. So it worked out well for them.
    - jdminhbg 9y ago
      Last quarter was 14 weeks vs the normal 13 so it's more like it's flat or a tiny bit up than shrinking.
      - wklauss 9y ago
        And the smartphone market as a whole is shrinking too, and more than 1%. Context, in this cases, matters a lot. Id say sales of iPhone this Q have been really good, considering X was a very risky proposition (high price, casts shadows over 8)
  - pdpi 9y ago
    The absolute levels are their best quarter ever. Can’t possibly be that bad, can it?
    - philwelch 9y ago
      Their best quarters were supply-constrained. If there are d units demanded and p units produced, and d >> p, then unit sales = p. Next year, if there are d' units demanded and p' units produced, and d' >= p' while p' > p, then unit sales are going to go up. This tells you a little bit about d', but not everything.
- megy 9y ago
  > This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. People really like believing in rumours.
  - at-fates-hands 9y ago
    Apparently this wasn't a "rumour" though. There was a LOT of chatter about the cancellation of the X in the summer due to low numbers: In a new report obtained by AppleInsider, acclaimed KGI Securities’ analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says disappointing sales of the iPhone X will lead to the cancellation of the model “with production ceasing in the summer”. This would be the first time Apple has canceled an iPhone model after just one generation since the iPhone 5C in 2014. Apparently he's been pretty consistent in getting big leaks like this right: Kuo, who has a long track record successfully revealing Apple’s plans, said lack of interest in China is the main reason. In China big screens are king and the iPhone X’s polarising "notch" is seen by Chinese consumers as removing too much usable space. Especially when the cheaper iPhone 8 Plus actually delivers slightly more. The news also follows a new survey from Cowan that claims an interest in new iPhones has hit a historic low. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/01/21/apple-iphone-x-buy-sales-specs-new-iphone-release-date/#c73a4df10cbd https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/01/21/apple-ip...
    - megy 9y ago
      > Apparently he's been pretty consistent in getting big leaks like this right: This still makes it a rumour.
    - pwinnski 9y ago
      It's a rumor you thought had more credence than average, but it was still a rumor. A rumor which turned out to be false, as this annual spate of rumors always does. So far. One day they might be right. Apple can't hit and exceed expectations forever, probably. But so far it's the same old bad rumors every year.
    - Eric_WVGG 9y ago
      Kuo is usually right about the supply chain, and usually wrong in interpretation. OLED screens are in short supply, and that will take a few years to turn around. This November, Apple can either split their limited supply of OLEDs between iPhone X and iPhone Xs (or XI or whatever that winds up being called). And that's not even factoring the likely larger-screen model...
- JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
  It could still be lackluster and sell more than previous versions. The iPhone is still spreading out into the world I assume, and the proportion of the world that wants or can buy an iPhone keeps increasing for a while longer.
- douglaswlance 9y ago
  Publicity is almost always wrong.
- jaxondu 9y ago
  > This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. It probably has become lackluster in some countries thus giving those reports. Definitely true in Singapore, there were plenty of IPX stocks available in Dec unlike previous years. But it's doing very well in China so overall it's a win for Apple.
  - megy 9y ago
    That could mean demand is down, or it could mean that supplies are up.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      There were a lot of rumors last year that Apple was shifting a lot of their supply to China and other Asian countries where they thought demand would be much higher relative to the US for the new model. That could explain it too.
    - jaxondu 9y ago
      Apple has officially said that stocks are constrained for IPX during launch. You can easily get an iPhone X in Singapore two weeks after its launch in late Nov onwards. And this is the week IPX is launching in further 13 countries. For the past many years, limited number of new iPhone are given to telcos each day during launch month. If you want to get one through telco, you have to queue up before the shop opens and stocks are gone by noon. Unless Apple changes its marketing strategy by flooding IPX to a very small Singapore market, I see this as clear sign demand is weak.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- philwelch 9y ago
  iPhone X wasn't as supply-constrained as previous iPhones. Whatever that says about iPhone X demand, it won't make a revenue difference at this juncture. Apple's improving their operations every year, so they can ship more units now than they could last year or the year before. Previously, if Apple was completely supply-constrained between launch and the holiday season, they would only earn revenue on the quantity of iPhones they could ship. Now that Apple has improved their supply chain volume, their launch quarter units shipped will go up purely as a function of that, and their revenue will also increase as a function of the higher unit price of iPhone X. The only difference, if there truly is one, will come in the next quarter or two. If a product is supply-constrained, there's a backlog of demand for it that only gets met down the road. If the product isn't supply-constrained, there isn't as much backlog and consequently, unit sales and revenue won't be as high. But that doesn't affect the launch quarter because the launch quarter is completely limited by supply. If iPhone X was a total flop, of course, that would have shown up by now. But "iPhone X less popular at launch than iPhone 6" is a hypothesis we can't judge yet. Edit: It's also really, really easy to tell whether a product is supply constrained. Just go to apple.com and see how long it'll take to ship. See if people are scalping them on Craigslist for a premium over the retail price. These kinds of things happen with major console launches and used to happen with Apple's product launches, but Apple is one of the biggest consumer electronics brands in the world, has some of the best operations in the world, and contracts with the best high-volume electronics manufacturer in the world, so it's more than possible for them to overcome the supply constraints that "plagued" previous launches. iPhone has an installed base of 1.3 billion users. That's more than 1/6 of the world population. At this point, there probably aren't even enough people in the world who can afford smartphones for demand to grow as fast as supply. If Apple's operations and supply chain can grow faster than the global middle class, they're going to get past their supply constraints, and apparently they already have. That's not necessarily a reflection on this year's iPhone.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- rgrieselhuber 9y ago
  Also of note, sounds like slowing all those batteries down really did the trick.
- almostApatriot1 9y ago
  I mean, it's not surprising considering the 8 is split into two phones. Did people really think one of them would beat out the X? They made more money, but only because everything they sell is more expensive. Shipped fewer devices this quarter.
- berberous 9y ago
  >>"As much as I see people deride the touchbar or the iPhone X notch, it seems consumers are at least willing to take a chance and try out something new." The problem is that Apple is still the market leader in many respects. For example, in my opinion, Apple's build quality, customer service and trackpad are still so far ahead of the PC industry that I wouldn't buy a non-Apple laptop. I also think touch ID is a great addition. But I don't want the touchbar. Too bad, if I want the latest Mac laptop with touch ID, I'm forced to take the touchbar.
  - eanzenberg 9y ago
    There's nothing low-quality about the touchbar on my mac. It works as expected with the added benefit of flexibility. People just like to knock on the #1 guy. It's easy and gets clicks.
    - dpark 9y ago
      Lots of people also just don’t like the touch bar. I had one and found it useless and annoying. Previously one-touch things like adjusting the audio volume became multi-press affairs. I constantly bumped the touch bar when using the number keys, which was really fun when entering a phone number in Chrome, because it would throw me into the search bar. I would not call the touch bar low quality. I would call it useless. On a related note, the massive trackpad was the first one Apple has produced that bugged me. It got stuck in “drag” mode frequently because my palm would register as a touch point. It also didn’t always register clicks on the right edge. Still better than almost all other trackpads I’ve used. Disclosure: I work at Microsoft. Was testing the latest MacBook Pro for my own use.
      - wjamesg 9y ago
        People sure do seem to love using “disclosure” statements around here to brag about where they work
        dpark 9y ago
        It’s not a brag. It would feel unethical to criticize a competitor’s product without disclosing the obvious conflict of interest.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  > This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. I'm pretty sure China alone made the X worthwhile.
- makecheck 9y ago
  Since the X is very expensive, “top selling” doesn’t necessarily mean “most units”. Maybe they sold more 8s for less overall.
- EugeneOZ 9y ago
  > This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. You just were looking for such opinions.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  People fucking love their iPhones. People on this site don’t seem to realize that — I see comments of the form “I can’t run bash on it, so it’s going to fail.”
baxtr 9y ago
I think this time, really, Apple is doomed. Trust me. This is the end.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  Beleaguered.
  - philwelch 9y ago
    That word is a blast from the past. I can see by your username that you also remember those days :)
- linkmotif 9y ago
  You've convinced me. I'm selling all my stock.
BvS 9y ago
Interestingly Apple spells out their overall revenue (88.3 billions) but not their profits (they only mention profits per share). This is obviously not a coincidence. I wonder why...
- cstejerean 9y ago
  They don't spell it out where? It's in the consolidated financial statements linked from that page https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Consolidated_Fin... (under Net Income). There is nothing to wonder about.
- baxtr 9y ago
  20.1 bn USD sounds like a very spelled out number to me BTW: the total number of shares is well known
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- wklauss 9y ago
  What exactly do you mean? It's in the consolidated statements they provide as part of this document. 20,065 billion $ vs 17,891 billion $ last year.
- pertymcpert 9y ago
  Why do you say things that are wrong?
adventured 9y ago
They added another $6.7 billion in long-term debt in the quarter, bringing the total up to $103.9 billion. With the tax changes now taken care of, I'd like to see them begin reducing that immense pile of debt. You do it while times are good and you're pulling in $50b in net income, rather than getting caught in a very bad position later (which is overwhelmingly what most companies do). In a very short amount of time, several of the leading tech companies have gone from being among the least indebted companies, to among the most indebted. Microsoft as another example, is carrying $76 billion in long-term debt, up from $27 billion in 2015. Their cash exceeds their debt, I consider that a very low bar to be setting though. Instead of bribing shareholders with buybacks (an indicator of lackluster growth opportunities in the business, when it comes to capital deployment opportunities), and artificially boosting EPS growth, that capital should all be going into paying down debt.
- fancyfacebook 9y ago
  When you're a company like apple debt is not a problem, in fact you can even sometimes get paid to issue debt if you're very very profitable. This is nothing like your monthly credit card payment, it's more of an accounting convenience.
  - reubenmorais 9y ago
    Can you (or someone) expand on this? It's not the first time I hear someone say that big $$$ views debt differently, but I don't understand how.
  - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
    Can you explain what the benefit of this would be? While I disagree with the parent (if you're sitting on a mountain of cash, debt is not a problem), what would the benefit be of having debt when you also have a mountain of cash? Certainly made sense before when Apple had cash overseas that they couldn't touch, but what would the benefit of it be now?
    - jlmorton 9y ago
acqq 9y ago
> We’ve also achieved a significant milestone with our active installed base of devices reaching 1.3 billion in January. That’s an increase of 30 percent in just two years, which is a testament to the popularity of our products and the loyalty and satisfaction of our customers. My personal example of my contribution to the raise of the installed base was: I've used the Christmas sales to buy a new iPhone for me and a new iPhone and new iPad for my parents. I've considered buying cheaper Android devices for the parents, but the ease of use of iOS and the better security compared to Android still won. But, dear Apple, dear anybody from the company who maybe reads this: please don't let your current management levels dilute the old clear vision, the "ease of use" goal. My parents are especially annoyed, for example, by not being able to permanently disable the additional "Apps" buttons in the Message app that get in the way. Ditto for not being able to have the former "simple mode" of Notes. (And I'm personally annoyed by "a" looking too much as "o" in the Notes). It's hard to keep the focus that Jobs was able to reach, but please understand that that legacy is still something that motivates at least these older users that I know. And one more detail: the iPhones I've bought are with the earphones jack, still! I'm not sure I will want these without it. Keep that feature somehow or this may be the drop that moves the writer of these words to the actions of the guy from the Samsung's "Growing Up" ad.
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Hate how they’ve complicated notes and messages and am not elderly!
  - askafriend 9y ago
    I absolutely love Notes. I switched over from Evernote so compared to Evernote, Notes.app is a godsend.
  - perilunar 9y ago
    Notes is great. But why do they use yellow/orange for a hyperlink colour? I mean, WTF? And why can't I set a default font?
  - lowtolerance 9y ago
FridgeSeal 9y ago
Another year, more record profits, maybe they can finally pay the fucking tax they owe.
- inspector-g 9y ago
  When has Apple not paid tax(es) they're legally obligated to have paid? Genuinely asking for sources for this claim.
  - FridgeSeal 9y ago
    Literally whenever they pull the "here's a shell company we made (and own) and we totally owe them all this money for developing this product. Oh no we didn't make a profit, guess we don't have to pay any tax." Let's all just ignore the fact that the entire strategy is them saying they owe themselves all this money and for some reason we all just go along with this. They're obviously not the only company that does this, most, if not all multinationals are guilty of this and people like to brush it off as "oh but it's not illegal", as if somehow the fact that they've managed to get a legal method of tax avoidance somehow makes it all better. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-tax-in-new-zealand-for-at-least-a-decade-reports-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/australian-tax-office-says-36-of-big-firms-and-multinationals-paid-no-tax https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/austr... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe-uks-anti-tax-avoidance-schemes-for-multinationals https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe...
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  What tax do Apple owe that they haven’t paid?
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Eluding taxes is super-unethical. They show off that they're environment-friendly, how about people-friendly? America made it possible for them to start a company like that (could've happened in Italy, for instance), people gave the a shitload of money, and they don't pay taxes thanks to a loophole. It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that?
samfisher83 9y ago
Apple guidance says their tax rate next year will be 15%. I thought the US rate was 20%. Is apple still planning to park their cash overseas?
- fbdjskajxb 9y ago
  US is getting rid of its unique foreign corporate income tax. Since the majority of Apple’s revenue is overseas, we can’t guess the overall rate they are paying from the US rate.
- nodesocket 9y ago
  They are making one of the biggest tax payments in history ($38 billion). Let's stop with the Apple being a tax dodger outrage.
  - samfisher83 9y ago
    38 billion dollars represents about ~1% of the US Taxes. Is it fair to all those people paying 33-40% in taxes?
    - nodesocket 9y ago
      Yes it is. This is how corporations work in America. They provide the growth, jobs, innovation. Tim Cook will be the first to reiterate that the new tax law was long overdue and they are enthusiastic about it. Tax reform allows Apple to bring $252 billion in cash that it held abroad back to the United States. That's a huge number. If you're an American you should be ecstatic about this. A rising tide lifts all boats.
      - adventured 9y ago
        It's actually how corporations work in nearly all developed nations today (with a few exceptions such as France and Japan). Sweden has a 20% corporate income tax rate. Finland is at 22%. Denmark is at 24.5%. The UK is at 17.5%. The average rate in Europe is 18%, in Asia it's 20%.
chirau 9y ago
There is an emerging pattern of analysts pushing out negative outlook on Apple's performance shortly before they announce earnings. This quarter it was the whole Apple X production cut thing. Why do I feel this is actually some sort of gaming of the system which ought to be investigated by authorities? Clearly, there are players are constantly doing this to drive share price down, buy the stock and wait for it to bounce back up again after earnings.
- chillacy 9y ago
  You can only fool people so many times though, before they start catching on (as you have). No edge lasts forever in financial markets.
Someone 9y ago
They sold 77.316 million iPhones for $61.576 billion. If I do the calculation right, that's an average revenue per iPhone of $796. That seems extremely high to me. Also, iPads bring in less revenue per unit sold (13.170 million sold for $5.862 billion of revenue, or $445 per iPad) What do they count in iPhone revenue? “deferrals and amortization of related software upgrade rights and non-software services.” according to https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf, but what are those, and why would they be different for iPhones vs iPads?
- megy 9y ago
  High average phone revenue means more X's are selling.
- 21 9y ago
  An iPhone X is almost twice the cost of a Samsung S8. Is it really twice the phone? Is the FaceID hardware really that expensive?
  - sf_rob 9y ago
    1.6x is not "almost twice" and that's comparing the larger storage X to the base S8.
    - 21 9y ago
      Samsung S8 64GB - 499 GBP -> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XYMCMHD https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XYMCMHD iPhone X 64GB - 897 GBP -> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076GQZRR9 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076GQZRR9 (there is one seller for 800 GBP, but it has 0% positive ratings and looks like a scam) 1.8x for the same size
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - micv 9y ago
        It's not really a like for like comparison. The S8 has been out for a while and has had its price cut down as a result. You always get better value for money if you stay slightly behind the curve and don't buy the fanciest, newest thing going. The iPhone X price is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong, but Samsung phones are pretty damned expensive on launch, too.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lerie82 9y ago
Maybe they should help with the 18 trillion dollar debt
perseusprime11 9y ago
Do we know the split between iPhone X and iPhone 8? It was a risky strategy to launch both but it looks like they made a good transition. Next year, they will take the notch out, increase the size and sell it as an upgrade.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Apple never gives that kind of information away. All we know is that since it’s launch Apple said that they sold more iPhone X’s per week then they sold iPhone 8s or 8+s (not combined).
gigatexal 9y ago
I still get caught on the UI/UX of my iphone X. FaceID is great but the whole swiping up from the bottom etc., is still hard on my muscle memory. Also, not a lot of apps gracefully deal with with being in wide mode. It's super annoying, and this cycle I am more and more willing to go to a Pixel phone than ever before. I won't, but I am not absolutely certain I won't jump ship the next round. I guess what I am getting at is how long can they keep milking mobile? iPhones and iPads... are meh now. Now what?
- hedgenetFT 9y ago
  I feel like the strategy forward for AAPL is to move to acquire a big name. I hear a few retail investors talking about apple acquiring Netflix. I believe that this is an acquisition that makes sense, and that it would complement nicely their other content distribution revenue streams.
  - gigatexal 9y ago
    Yeah buying Netflix over Tesla* makes more sense. (I know you didn't mention Tesla but Apple has car ambitions it seems.) Netflix has a lot of debt but the chops to make really good content. No brainier there I think. They should have bought Waze, too. And Here maps to make their maps a ton better. And they should invest more into making their macbooks better imo, but they keep selling more and more year over year so they likely won't. I wish they would buy a smaller telco like sprint or tmobile, hell buy both, invest 100B into getting the cell coverage up and then move then incentivise people to move to the Apple telco plan. * Telsa's cash burn would likely scare investors. /end arm chair CEO'ing
    - MBCook 9y ago
      I don’t think they could buy a cell phone company. As much as Apple likes vertical integration that would immediately piss off all the other cell phone companies and they have a much harder time selling things. And that’s assuming that the Justice Department would even let them. Netflix makes plenty of sense, I’d be happy with that. I doubt they’d ever by Tesla, but if anyone could sort out the production issues they were having I imagine Tim Cook and his team would be quite good at it.
hyperpallium 9y ago
At these rates, Apple crosses a billion dollar annual revenue in 9 years: ln(1000/(4*88.3))/ln(1.13) = 8.51531
- Steko 9y ago
  Two corrections: (1) I think you meant trillion, (2) you don't get 4 holiday quarters.

151 points by mcone 9y ago

anw 9y ago

> We’re thrilled to report the biggest quarter in Apple’s history, with broad-based growth that included the highest revenue ever from a new iPhone lineup. iPhone X surpassed our expectations and has been our top-selling iPhone every week since it shipped in November This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. > The Company posted quarterly revenue of $88.3 billion, an increase of 13 percent from the year-ago quarter and an all-time record, and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $3.89, up 16 percent, also an all-time record. As much as I see people deride the touchbar or the iPhone X notch, it seems consumers are at least willing to take a chance and try out something new.

david-cako 9y ago
Yeah if someone could explain the disparity between this press release and the general narrative that would be sweet. When the iPX first launched the narrative was "holy shit this phone is flying off the shelves", since then OLED stock has been falling (really good time to buy tbh), apple cuts back production, and the narrative has gone sour. What gives?
- jasonlotito 9y ago
  So, without taking a side, the part quoted doesn't conflict with what the press is saying. 1. highest revenue ever from a new iPhone lineup It's also the most expensive. Simply put, they could sell fewer iPhone Xs and still make more revenue simply because of the increased price. So even with the highest revenue, it could still be lackluster in quantity sold, as well as what the profit is like. 2. [iPhone X] has been our top-selling iPhone every week since it shipped in November It simply needs to sell more the other iPhones during the same time period. This makes sense, as it was released later than the iPhone 8. You could make the assumption that the majority of everyone that wanted an iPhone 8 would have bought one prior to the iPhone X being released. For here, a better comparison would have been units sold of a new iPhone and if it beat that. Again, I'm not suggesting it's a failure or a success, merely trying to look at the quote objectively and what it says, and what that really means.
- georgeecollins 9y ago
  Apple sold fewer phones than analysts expected, and fewer than they did last year. They sold 77.3m phones, and analysts expected them to sell 80.2m. They had greater revenue because the average price of phones has gone up. Apple issued guidance for this quarter that they expected revenue to be $60-62b. Analysts expected revenue of $65.9b. Stocks are priced on the expectation of the future, so the change in the expectation has probably had a negative effect on the price. As an individual investor (disclosure: I own a little AAPL) I think it is foolish to worry quarterly earnings and revenue forecasts. Yet it is what people write about. It is easier to write about quarterly earnings then it is to write about industry trends, in the same way it is easier to write about polls than it is to write about policy. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/apple-forecast-falls-short-as-iphone-sales-miss-estimates https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/apple-for...
- oflannabhra 9y ago
  The current, negative narrative around the iPhone X is based on supply chain rumors. We don't know what Apple's original orders to suppliers were, but the numbers in many rumors were: "Apple cuts production 50%, from 40M to 20M." Analysts try to tease these numbers from the supply chain, but Apple is notoriously opaque with their supply chain, and typically use multiple suppliers for the same part. As noted by @rjones [1], 2Q total units sold historically range between 50-52M. If Apple had originally placed orders in Q218 for 40M iPhone Xs, then either a) iPhone X is 80% of all iPhone sales, which is hard to believe because of the current lineup diversity, or b) Apple expects total unit sales for 2Q18 to be above 80M, which is hard to believe because of 1Q18 guidance. The better explanation is that Apple probably cut production for any number of reasons, but nowhere near as drastic as 50%. 20M is 40% of 51M, which would point to the iPhone X selling very well through 2Q18, and continuing to be the best-selling iPhone model. [1] - https://twitter.com/rjonesy/status/958421107245232128 https://twitter.com/rjonesy/status/958421107245232128
  - matwood 9y ago
    Exactly. Apple also has said the iPhoneX was a phone to show new technologies. It may not move into the second cheaper slot next gen, and instead may just go away. If that's the case then of course they are starting to figure out how to slow down production to prep for later this year.
saagarjha 9y ago
> This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. This happens every year when a new iPhone comes out. Contrarian news drives clicks.
- jjtheblunt 9y ago
  More scandalously, contrarian news from "analysts" drives down share prices, which rebound healthfully after earnings, and the SEC really could have fun addressing this gaming of the market to the benefit of the analysts.
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    Not rebounding. Flat this morning and down from $180 earlier in 2018. Barclay new price target is $162 this morning. Also a couple downgrades "Apple gets two downgrades due to ‘dramatically’ slowing iPhone X demand" https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/apple-gets-two-downgrades-due-to-dramatically-slowing-iphone-x-demand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/apple-gets-two-downgrades-du... From this morning after releasing results.
- jacksmith21006 9y ago
  But iPhone unit sales did decline YoY for the quarter? Plus Q2 guidance was $60B versus consensus of $66B for Q2. The analyst and the reports seem accurate. Can you explain? It was never about Q1 but Q2 - Q4 and guidance. Apple is down from $180 in 2018 and flat this morning. Barclay new price target this morning is $162.
smaili 9y ago
> International sales accounted for 65 percent of the quarter’s revenue. Could be related to the above? Most of the publicity I've seen is domestic to US, but it's certainly possible overseas has a much different view on the iPhone X.
- oflannabhra 9y ago
  iPhone ASP was up to $796. That indicates that the iPhone X sold very well.
- netheril96 9y ago
  I’m a Chinese, and all of Chinese social media I read managed to convince me that it was finally the year of Apple’s decline.
e1ven 9y ago
We see this over and over - People guess how many iPhones Apple is selling, and predict a big problem. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/10/03/iphone-7-sales-first-two-weeks/#114ba6362342 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/10/03/iphone-7-...) Later, Apple releases numbers which suggest that it's selling great (https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-7-tim-cook-first-quarter-sales/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-7-tim-cook-first-quar...) I think maybe it's time to stop listening to "analysis" on their sales until there are real numbers.
- coralreef 9y ago
  In the iPhone X's case its not analysis on sales, its leaked rumors of production cuts.
  - SG- 9y ago
    and this happens every year as they always cut them down after the initial major release.
  - beat 9y ago
    They probably put together a production cut plan just in case (as they should), and then someone finds out about it and assumes that because they made a plan to do a thing, that they're going to do a thing. Popular thinking can't really wrap its head around risk management.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      The normal Apple analysis people/sites have been discussing this. You can run into things where Apple likes to have multiple suppliers, so maybe they decide to cut their order with supplier A by 50% because they don’t think they’re doing well enough where they can get a better price somewhere else. Supplier A talks to a friend in the media and all of a sudden the story is that Apple has a big problem because their new phone isn’t selling. What no one is saying (possibly because as we all know Apple like secrecy and repolish them) is that supplier B had a 30% increase in orders from Apple, or supplier C is now coming online when they weren’t involved before. Since we don’t have the whole picture, it’s hard to know what’s actually going on outside of effectively one rumor. Or it could be stock manipulation.
zmk_ 9y ago
"top selling iPhone" is a relative statement, the whole pie can be shrinking and Apple could've hoped for more sales, but compared to other (8 and older) iPhones it is still doing good. The forecasts in the media were about the absolute levels not relative.
- megy 9y ago
  Well, they sold 77.3m this quarter compared to 78.3m last quarter. The whole pie is shrinking, but by a tiny amount. But they made $7b more revenue from that. So it worked out well for them.
  - jdminhbg 9y ago
    Last quarter was 14 weeks vs the normal 13 so it's more like it's flat or a tiny bit up than shrinking.
    - wklauss 9y ago
      And the smartphone market as a whole is shrinking too, and more than 1%. Context, in this cases, matters a lot. Id say sales of iPhone this Q have been really good, considering X was a very risky proposition (high price, casts shadows over 8)
- pdpi 9y ago
  The absolute levels are their best quarter ever. Can’t possibly be that bad, can it?
  - philwelch 9y ago
    Their best quarters were supply-constrained. If there are d units demanded and p units produced, and d >> p, then unit sales = p. Next year, if there are d' units demanded and p' units produced, and d' >= p' while p' > p, then unit sales are going to go up. This tells you a little bit about d', but not everything.
megy 9y ago
> This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. People really like believing in rumours.
- at-fates-hands 9y ago
  Apparently this wasn't a "rumour" though. There was a LOT of chatter about the cancellation of the X in the summer due to low numbers: In a new report obtained by AppleInsider, acclaimed KGI Securities’ analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says disappointing sales of the iPhone X will lead to the cancellation of the model “with production ceasing in the summer”. This would be the first time Apple has canceled an iPhone model after just one generation since the iPhone 5C in 2014. Apparently he's been pretty consistent in getting big leaks like this right: Kuo, who has a long track record successfully revealing Apple’s plans, said lack of interest in China is the main reason. In China big screens are king and the iPhone X’s polarising "notch" is seen by Chinese consumers as removing too much usable space. Especially when the cheaper iPhone 8 Plus actually delivers slightly more. The news also follows a new survey from Cowan that claims an interest in new iPhones has hit a historic low. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/01/21/apple-iphone-x-buy-sales-specs-new-iphone-release-date/#c73a4df10cbd https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/01/21/apple-ip...
  - megy 9y ago
    > Apparently he's been pretty consistent in getting big leaks like this right: This still makes it a rumour.
  - pwinnski 9y ago
    It's a rumor you thought had more credence than average, but it was still a rumor. A rumor which turned out to be false, as this annual spate of rumors always does. So far. One day they might be right. Apple can't hit and exceed expectations forever, probably. But so far it's the same old bad rumors every year.
  - Eric_WVGG 9y ago
    Kuo is usually right about the supply chain, and usually wrong in interpretation. OLED screens are in short supply, and that will take a few years to turn around. This November, Apple can either split their limited supply of OLEDs between iPhone X and iPhone Xs (or XI or whatever that winds up being called). And that's not even factoring the likely larger-screen model...
JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
It could still be lackluster and sell more than previous versions. The iPhone is still spreading out into the world I assume, and the proportion of the world that wants or can buy an iPhone keeps increasing for a while longer.
douglaswlance 9y ago
Publicity is almost always wrong.
jaxondu 9y ago
> This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. It probably has become lackluster in some countries thus giving those reports. Definitely true in Singapore, there were plenty of IPX stocks available in Dec unlike previous years. But it's doing very well in China so overall it's a win for Apple.
- megy 9y ago
  That could mean demand is down, or it could mean that supplies are up.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    There were a lot of rumors last year that Apple was shifting a lot of their supply to China and other Asian countries where they thought demand would be much higher relative to the US for the new model. That could explain it too.
  - jaxondu 9y ago
    Apple has officially said that stocks are constrained for IPX during launch. You can easily get an iPhone X in Singapore two weeks after its launch in late Nov onwards. And this is the week IPX is launching in further 13 countries. For the past many years, limited number of new iPhone are given to telcos each day during launch month. If you want to get one through telco, you have to queue up before the shop opens and stocks are gone by noon. Unless Apple changes its marketing strategy by flooding IPX to a very small Singapore market, I see this as clear sign demand is weak.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
philwelch 9y ago
iPhone X wasn't as supply-constrained as previous iPhones. Whatever that says about iPhone X demand, it won't make a revenue difference at this juncture. Apple's improving their operations every year, so they can ship more units now than they could last year or the year before. Previously, if Apple was completely supply-constrained between launch and the holiday season, they would only earn revenue on the quantity of iPhones they could ship. Now that Apple has improved their supply chain volume, their launch quarter units shipped will go up purely as a function of that, and their revenue will also increase as a function of the higher unit price of iPhone X. The only difference, if there truly is one, will come in the next quarter or two. If a product is supply-constrained, there's a backlog of demand for it that only gets met down the road. If the product isn't supply-constrained, there isn't as much backlog and consequently, unit sales and revenue won't be as high. But that doesn't affect the launch quarter because the launch quarter is completely limited by supply. If iPhone X was a total flop, of course, that would have shown up by now. But "iPhone X less popular at launch than iPhone 6" is a hypothesis we can't judge yet. Edit: It's also really, really easy to tell whether a product is supply constrained. Just go to apple.com and see how long it'll take to ship. See if people are scalping them on Craigslist for a premium over the retail price. These kinds of things happen with major console launches and used to happen with Apple's product launches, but Apple is one of the biggest consumer electronics brands in the world, has some of the best operations in the world, and contracts with the best high-volume electronics manufacturer in the world, so it's more than possible for them to overcome the supply constraints that "plagued" previous launches. iPhone has an installed base of 1.3 billion users. That's more than 1/6 of the world population. At this point, there probably aren't even enough people in the world who can afford smartphones for demand to grow as fast as supply. If Apple's operations and supply chain can grow faster than the global middle class, they're going to get past their supply constraints, and apparently they already have. That's not necessarily a reflection on this year's iPhone.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
rgrieselhuber 9y ago
Also of note, sounds like slowing all those batteries down really did the trick.
almostApatriot1 9y ago
I mean, it's not surprising considering the 8 is split into two phones. Did people really think one of them would beat out the X? They made more money, but only because everything they sell is more expensive. Shipped fewer devices this quarter.
berberous 9y ago
>>"As much as I see people deride the touchbar or the iPhone X notch, it seems consumers are at least willing to take a chance and try out something new." The problem is that Apple is still the market leader in many respects. For example, in my opinion, Apple's build quality, customer service and trackpad are still so far ahead of the PC industry that I wouldn't buy a non-Apple laptop. I also think touch ID is a great addition. But I don't want the touchbar. Too bad, if I want the latest Mac laptop with touch ID, I'm forced to take the touchbar.
- eanzenberg 9y ago
  There's nothing low-quality about the touchbar on my mac. It works as expected with the added benefit of flexibility. People just like to knock on the #1 guy. It's easy and gets clicks.
  - dpark 9y ago
    Lots of people also just don’t like the touch bar. I had one and found it useless and annoying. Previously one-touch things like adjusting the audio volume became multi-press affairs. I constantly bumped the touch bar when using the number keys, which was really fun when entering a phone number in Chrome, because it would throw me into the search bar. I would not call the touch bar low quality. I would call it useless. On a related note, the massive trackpad was the first one Apple has produced that bugged me. It got stuck in “drag” mode frequently because my palm would register as a touch point. It also didn’t always register clicks on the right edge. Still better than almost all other trackpads I’ve used. Disclosure: I work at Microsoft. Was testing the latest MacBook Pro for my own use.
    - wjamesg 9y ago
      People sure do seem to love using “disclosure” statements around here to brag about where they work
      - dpark 9y ago
        It’s not a brag. It would feel unethical to criticize a competitor’s product without disclosing the obvious conflict of interest.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. I'm pretty sure China alone made the X worthwhile.
makecheck 9y ago
Since the X is very expensive, “top selling” doesn’t necessarily mean “most units”. Maybe they sold more 8s for less overall.
EugeneOZ 9y ago
> This is interesting, as the majority of the publicity I've seen about the iPhone X has painted it as lackluster. You just were looking for such opinions.
ggg9990 9y ago
People fucking love their iPhones. People on this site don’t seem to realize that — I see comments of the form “I can’t run bash on it, so it’s going to fail.”

baxtr 9y ago

I think this time, really, Apple is doomed. Trust me. This is the end.

Cyberdog 9y ago
Beleaguered.
- philwelch 9y ago
  That word is a blast from the past. I can see by your username that you also remember those days :)
linkmotif 9y ago
You've convinced me. I'm selling all my stock.

BvS 9y ago

Interestingly Apple spells out their overall revenue (88.3 billions) but not their profits (they only mention profits per share). This is obviously not a coincidence. I wonder why...

cstejerean 9y ago
They don't spell it out where? It's in the consolidated financial statements linked from that page https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Consolidated_Fin... (under Net Income). There is nothing to wonder about.
baxtr 9y ago
20.1 bn USD sounds like a very spelled out number to me BTW: the total number of shares is well known
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
wklauss 9y ago
What exactly do you mean? It's in the consolidated statements they provide as part of this document. 20,065 billion $ vs 17,891 billion $ last year.
pertymcpert 9y ago
Why do you say things that are wrong?

adventured 9y ago

They added another $6.7 billion in long-term debt in the quarter, bringing the total up to $103.9 billion. With the tax changes now taken care of, I'd like to see them begin reducing that immense pile of debt. You do it while times are good and you're pulling in $50b in net income, rather than getting caught in a very bad position later (which is overwhelmingly what most companies do). In a very short amount of time, several of the leading tech companies have gone from being among the least indebted companies, to among the most indebted. Microsoft as another example, is carrying $76 billion in long-term debt, up from $27 billion in 2015. Their cash exceeds their debt, I consider that a very low bar to be setting though. Instead of bribing shareholders with buybacks (an indicator of lackluster growth opportunities in the business, when it comes to capital deployment opportunities), and artificially boosting EPS growth, that capital should all be going into paying down debt.

fancyfacebook 9y ago
When you're a company like apple debt is not a problem, in fact you can even sometimes get paid to issue debt if you're very very profitable. This is nothing like your monthly credit card payment, it's more of an accounting convenience.
- reubenmorais 9y ago
  Can you (or someone) expand on this? It's not the first time I hear someone say that big $$$ views debt differently, but I don't understand how.
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  Can you explain what the benefit of this would be? While I disagree with the parent (if you're sitting on a mountain of cash, debt is not a problem), what would the benefit be of having debt when you also have a mountain of cash? Certainly made sense before when Apple had cash overseas that they couldn't touch, but what would the benefit of it be now?
  - jlmorton 9y ago

acqq 9y ago

> We’ve also achieved a significant milestone with our active installed base of devices reaching 1.3 billion in January. That’s an increase of 30 percent in just two years, which is a testament to the popularity of our products and the loyalty and satisfaction of our customers. My personal example of my contribution to the raise of the installed base was: I've used the Christmas sales to buy a new iPhone for me and a new iPhone and new iPad for my parents. I've considered buying cheaper Android devices for the parents, but the ease of use of iOS and the better security compared to Android still won. But, dear Apple, dear anybody from the company who maybe reads this: please don't let your current management levels dilute the old clear vision, the "ease of use" goal. My parents are especially annoyed, for example, by not being able to permanently disable the additional "Apps" buttons in the Message app that get in the way. Ditto for not being able to have the former "simple mode" of Notes. (And I'm personally annoyed by "a" looking too much as "o" in the Notes). It's hard to keep the focus that Jobs was able to reach, but please understand that that legacy is still something that motivates at least these older users that I know. And one more detail: the iPhones I've bought are with the earphones jack, still! I'm not sure I will want these without it. Keep that feature somehow or this may be the drop that moves the writer of these words to the actions of the guy from the Samsung's "Growing Up" ad.

mixmastamyk 9y ago
Hate how they’ve complicated notes and messages and am not elderly!
- askafriend 9y ago
  I absolutely love Notes. I switched over from Evernote so compared to Evernote, Notes.app is a godsend.
- perilunar 9y ago
  Notes is great. But why do they use yellow/orange for a hyperlink colour? I mean, WTF? And why can't I set a default font?
- lowtolerance 9y ago

FridgeSeal 9y ago

Another year, more record profits, maybe they can finally pay the fucking tax they owe.

inspector-g 9y ago
When has Apple not paid tax(es) they're legally obligated to have paid? Genuinely asking for sources for this claim.
- FridgeSeal 9y ago
  Literally whenever they pull the "here's a shell company we made (and own) and we totally owe them all this money for developing this product. Oh no we didn't make a profit, guess we don't have to pay any tax." Let's all just ignore the fact that the entire strategy is them saying they owe themselves all this money and for some reason we all just go along with this. They're obviously not the only company that does this, most, if not all multinationals are guilty of this and people like to brush it off as "oh but it's not illegal", as if somehow the fact that they've managed to get a legal method of tax avoidance somehow makes it all better. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-tax-in-new-zealand-for-at-least-a-decade-reports-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/australian-tax-office-says-36-of-big-firms-and-multinationals-paid-no-tax https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/austr... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe-uks-anti-tax-avoidance-schemes-for-multinationals https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe...
matthewmacleod 9y ago
What tax do Apple owe that they haven’t paid?
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Eluding taxes is super-unethical. They show off that they're environment-friendly, how about people-friendly? America made it possible for them to start a company like that (could've happened in Italy, for instance), people gave the a shitload of money, and they don't pay taxes thanks to a loophole. It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that?

samfisher83 9y ago

Apple guidance says their tax rate next year will be 15%. I thought the US rate was 20%. Is apple still planning to park their cash overseas?

fbdjskajxb 9y ago
US is getting rid of its unique foreign corporate income tax. Since the majority of Apple’s revenue is overseas, we can’t guess the overall rate they are paying from the US rate.
nodesocket 9y ago
They are making one of the biggest tax payments in history ($38 billion). Let's stop with the Apple being a tax dodger outrage.
- samfisher83 9y ago
  38 billion dollars represents about ~1% of the US Taxes. Is it fair to all those people paying 33-40% in taxes?
  - nodesocket 9y ago
    Yes it is. This is how corporations work in America. They provide the growth, jobs, innovation. Tim Cook will be the first to reiterate that the new tax law was long overdue and they are enthusiastic about it. Tax reform allows Apple to bring $252 billion in cash that it held abroad back to the United States. That's a huge number. If you're an American you should be ecstatic about this. A rising tide lifts all boats.
    - adventured 9y ago
      It's actually how corporations work in nearly all developed nations today (with a few exceptions such as France and Japan). Sweden has a 20% corporate income tax rate. Finland is at 22%. Denmark is at 24.5%. The UK is at 17.5%. The average rate in Europe is 18%, in Asia it's 20%.

chirau 9y ago

There is an emerging pattern of analysts pushing out negative outlook on Apple's performance shortly before they announce earnings. This quarter it was the whole Apple X production cut thing. Why do I feel this is actually some sort of gaming of the system which ought to be investigated by authorities? Clearly, there are players are constantly doing this to drive share price down, buy the stock and wait for it to bounce back up again after earnings.

chillacy 9y ago
You can only fool people so many times though, before they start catching on (as you have). No edge lasts forever in financial markets.

Someone 9y ago

They sold 77.316 million iPhones for $61.576 billion. If I do the calculation right, that's an average revenue per iPhone of $796. That seems extremely high to me. Also, iPads bring in less revenue per unit sold (13.170 million sold for $5.862 billion of revenue, or $445 per iPad) What do they count in iPhone revenue? “deferrals and amortization of related software upgrade rights and non-software services.” according to https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf, but what are those, and why would they be different for iPhones vs iPads?

megy 9y ago
High average phone revenue means more X's are selling.
21 9y ago
An iPhone X is almost twice the cost of a Samsung S8. Is it really twice the phone? Is the FaceID hardware really that expensive?
- sf_rob 9y ago
  1.6x is not "almost twice" and that's comparing the larger storage X to the base S8.
  - 21 9y ago
    Samsung S8 64GB - 499 GBP -> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XYMCMHD https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XYMCMHD iPhone X 64GB - 897 GBP -> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076GQZRR9 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076GQZRR9 (there is one seller for 800 GBP, but it has 0% positive ratings and looks like a scam) 1.8x for the same size
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - micv 9y ago
      It's not really a like for like comparison. The S8 has been out for a while and has had its price cut down as a result. You always get better value for money if you stay slightly behind the curve and don't buy the fanciest, newest thing going. The iPhone X price is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong, but Samsung phones are pretty damned expensive on launch, too.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

lerie82 9y ago

Maybe they should help with the 18 trillion dollar debt

perseusprime11 9y ago

Do we know the split between iPhone X and iPhone 8? It was a risky strategy to launch both but it looks like they made a good transition. Next year, they will take the notch out, increase the size and sell it as an upgrade.

MBCook 9y ago
Apple never gives that kind of information away. All we know is that since it’s launch Apple said that they sold more iPhone X’s per week then they sold iPhone 8s or 8+s (not combined).

gigatexal 9y ago

I still get caught on the UI/UX of my iphone X. FaceID is great but the whole swiping up from the bottom etc., is still hard on my muscle memory. Also, not a lot of apps gracefully deal with with being in wide mode. It's super annoying, and this cycle I am more and more willing to go to a Pixel phone than ever before. I won't, but I am not absolutely certain I won't jump ship the next round. I guess what I am getting at is how long can they keep milking mobile? iPhones and iPads... are meh now. Now what?

hedgenetFT 9y ago
I feel like the strategy forward for AAPL is to move to acquire a big name. I hear a few retail investors talking about apple acquiring Netflix. I believe that this is an acquisition that makes sense, and that it would complement nicely their other content distribution revenue streams.
- gigatexal 9y ago
  Yeah buying Netflix over Tesla* makes more sense. (I know you didn't mention Tesla but Apple has car ambitions it seems.) Netflix has a lot of debt but the chops to make really good content. No brainier there I think. They should have bought Waze, too. And Here maps to make their maps a ton better. And they should invest more into making their macbooks better imo, but they keep selling more and more year over year so they likely won't. I wish they would buy a smaller telco like sprint or tmobile, hell buy both, invest 100B into getting the cell coverage up and then move then incentivise people to move to the Apple telco plan. * Telsa's cash burn would likely scare investors. /end arm chair CEO'ing
  - MBCook 9y ago
    I don’t think they could buy a cell phone company. As much as Apple likes vertical integration that would immediately piss off all the other cell phone companies and they have a much harder time selling things. And that’s assuming that the Justice Department would even let them. Netflix makes plenty of sense, I’d be happy with that. I doubt they’d ever by Tesla, but if anyone could sort out the production issues they were having I imagine Tim Cook and his team would be quite good at it.

hyperpallium 9y ago

At these rates, Apple crosses a billion dollar annual revenue in 9 years: ln(1000/(4*88.3))/ln(1.13) = 8.51531

Steko 9y ago
Two corrections: (1) I think you meant trillion, (2) you don't get 4 holiday quarters.