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The 1980 Citroën Karin
- camillomiller 9y agoCan someone explain to me why these incredible concept cars never really get built, even in small batches as a limited edition?
- agumonkey 9y agoEgypt didn't give them the rights to adapt Pyramids on Citroen local market ?
- Aissen 9y agoI'm pretty sure the answer is "it's complicated". They'd probably cost as much as a supercar, wouldn't be homologated to be used on roads, etc. Maybe there's a business plan here, see all the "pimp my car" TV shows where specialists "enhance" existing vehicules. Actually, some of those cars get built, but only in Hollywood ;-)
- csours 9y agoSo many reasons, but the two big ones are: 1. Cost vs Reward. 2. Regulations. 1) Many concept cars are non-functional or only partially functional. Making them fully functional and production ready, even at prototype levels would be extremely costly. 2) Many features in concept cars are not evaluated against FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) and other standards, they are not crash tested, they may not meet EPA regulations. There are a lot of other reasons, but they all basically boil down to cost vs reward. --- There is also the backwards case, where many modern "concept cars" are actually just pre-production teasers with fancy cosmetics. Disclaimer: I work for GM, but not on concept cars, sadly =(
- cm2187 9y agoAre Ferrari models crash tested?
- trymas 9y agoYes. Even super rare koenigseggs, and paganis are crash tested. If I recall right, koenigsegg uses one or two monocoque carbon frames to pass the tests.
- csours 9y agohttp://blog.dupontregistry.com/news/crash-test-2-million-hypercar/ http://blog.dupontregistry.com/news/crash-test-2-million-hyp... https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/do-you-have-to-crash-test-supercars-and-how-safe-are-they https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/do-you-have-to-crash-test-sup... Yes, usually at least once. Part of the reason supercars are so expensive is that the engineering costs are only amortized over a small number of vehicles. The crash test can be considered part of that cost. The actual incremental cost to produce a supercar is a fraction of the price tag. In addition to official government crash tests, non-governmental groups such as IIHS also crash test mass market vehicles, but they actually have to purchase the vehicles they test - hoping to make money by selling back the information they collect. It's pretty much never cost effective for IIHS to buy supercars for crash testing. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings
- cm2187 9y agoInteresting. The other thing I was curious about: aren't there regulations in term of maximum noise emitted by new cars? If that's the case I wonder how these supercars are roadworthy.
- gambiting 9y agoTests apply in "default" configuration. So I drive a Mercedes AMG which has a button to open the exhaust which makes it way louder. But the test is conducted in the state in which the car starts in by default - so with the exhaust closed and quiet. Same with emissions - if the car starts by default with Start/Stop system on, it's tested with it on. But obviously you can switch the system off which increases the emissions.
- exDM69 9y agoYes there are and that's why e.g. Ferrari have been going towards turbo charged cars with conservative exhaust pipes recently. At least where I'm from, most regulations don't apply retroactively. You can still drive around in an old V12 with short tailpipes but a new one wouldn't be allowed.
- _ph_ 9y agoWith electrical drivetrains making custom cars more feasible (easier to obtain for small car makers, simpler to integrate into a custom setup), we can hope for more of such design becoming reality in small numbers. This concept car probably really was just designed to be maximal crazy :), but I think it is a great concept. It would only require a few small changes to become a really cool and modern car.
- maxerickson 9y agoSmall shops in the US regularly turn out custom made vehicles with modern engines. Lots of them use parts out of junked cars, but also "crate engines" are a thing, you can just buy a powertrain from any number of suppliers (for instance, GM: http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines ). And then there are specialist machine shops that build linkages and such to go between whatever components, at whatever length. I imagine safety regulations and cost are the big blocker for small scale manufacturing.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoPeople have been doing EV conversions since forever. If electric becomes a viable alternative to remans and crate engines the OEMs will just offer a "crate engine" electric drive-train that bolts where an LS or SBC would go and the stuff needed to make it plug and play. You don't need a custom vehicle, just an S10 with a blown motor.
- maxerickson 9y agoI was responding to the other poster's assertion that electric drivetrains will be easier to obtain. I don't see how there can be anything that is really meaningfully easier than ordering something out of a catalog.
- rando444 9y agoWith this car you can tell in a rollover it would likely kill everyone inside nearly every time.
- agumonkey 9y agoIt's so amazing how design trends evolve. What drew people to think about car shapes this way, why did they thing it would be "better". A little bit later, this time by Peugeot http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1988_peugeot_oxia/images/634/ http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1988_peugeot_oxia/images/634...
- LoSboccacc 9y agoin a time without detailed airflow simulation that shape helped reducing the lifting body characteristic of arcing sportscar as top speed rise (and then entered into the collective imagination of kids growing up as the sportscar shape)
- lmm 9y agoPerhaps they were doing computer analysis of aerodynamics on machines that were only capable of modelling a few flat surfaces? A lot of '80s cars have that flat/angular/boxy styling, and I see some continuity between that and the F-117 where I know computer analysis is the reason.
- agumonkey 9y agoI don't buy it. 60s car had rocket like shapes for the sake of aerodynamics. The flat/angled look comes from somewhere else. .. Maybe even a counter reaction to the rounded everything of the 60s / 70s. Kinda like flat design not long ago.
- Joeri 9y agoIn the 60's manufacturers didn't care about aerodynamics, and they made big cars with big engines and terrible mileage. After the oil crisis, car and engine sizes shrunk and aerodynamics mattered. I do find it always very odd how ugly the late 70's until early 90's period is. Fashion, architecture, product design, even hair styles. Almost everything looks awful. It's not just fashion, because you can pick designs from any earlier period and they look ok if dated, but that 20 year period from the mid-70's onwards is just so ugly. (Although undoubtably someone will be by in a bit to tell me how wrong I am and how beautiful that period is...)
- rwmj 9y agoThe central steering wheel is ... different. It's the worst of both worlds. I saw another 80s concept car which had a steering wheel that could be moved from left to right hand side, presumably for people who very frequently cross the Channel.
- Fifer82 9y agoHa I remember that, and i remember that tomorrows world (or whatever show it was) was mind blown by it. 2/3 of the piece was about how the steering wheel moves. I recall the car looked pretty nice at the time though.
- Fifer82 9y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1Ka1BlNwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1Ka1BlNwQ I think this was it! OK, it looks terrible, but at the time it looked amazing!
- jacobush 9y agoYou know what, with todays increasingly drive by wire cars, that could be pretty cheap to pull off in a modern car.
- ptaipale 9y agoTodays cars still have a very physical steering column and mechanics, not so easy to switch. My main trouble with right-hand-drive vehicles is that with some models, I put the windscreen wipers on in every intersection. (The turn signal and wiper switches may be either the same way as in left-hand-drive cars, or mirrored.)
- TomMarius 9y agoI once had rented a (automatic) Nissan for 3 weeks that was left-hand drive, but the controls were mirrored - including the pedals! Weirdest experience ever. I wasn't able to properly operate my own (manual) car for a week.
- jmkni 9y agoI would be surprised if this wasn't inspiration for the car Homer Simpson built in the episode Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
- stuartmalcolm 9y agoWhen people talk about electric cars.. this is what I picture.. ..Where's my hover-board dude?
- mcv 9y agoSurprised to find Dutch text at the bottom of an English site about a French car.
- jacobush 9y agoIt's all Indo-European. What's a few vowel shifts between friends.
- awjr 9y agoWhat's interesting about these concept cars, is that they sometimes get built if they generate enough interest. I believe this is how the new VW Beetle came about, and I suspect what nudged BMW to bring out the new mini. One that is in the process of making that leap right now: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/98136/volkswagen-boss-confirms-id-buzz-concept-to-make-production http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/98136/volkswagen-bos... I do wonder if the reason concept 'updated' models are more likely to be made is there is a huge amount of nostalgia at play in the market. As an aside, having owned a new Mini convertible, I can confirm it was probably the most fun I've had in a car. Felt like driving a go-kart. The suspension is ridiculously hard. Completely horrible car to be a passenger in but so so so much fun to drive. Apparently very close to the original.
- cjsuk 9y agoI borrowed my mother's (edit 1968) Mini for a week, after my Land Rover series 3 fell to bits. This was mid-1990s. The suspension was unpleasant and painful to anyone in the vehicle. It was hard as nails. Definitely fun, until you accidentally lose it going around a roundabout at which point your sense of mortality re-appears and you wish you were driving anything else.
- hollander 9y agoGo back another 100 years, and think about the vehicles and their suspension (probably leather bands?), and then realize that there were no asphalt roads, only dirt roads with holes and rocks. Then go back several hundred years, when carriages had no suspension at all. How did people handle that? Speed was probably the big difference. Plus what else was there? The only alternative was walking or maybe travel by horse or mule. So that 1968 Mini was probably very OK for that time, with careful driving, and a tougher ass.
- lucaspiller 9y agoSpeed was the big difference. It's interesting that speed limits in the U.K. haven't increased since the first motorway was opened in 1958, yet cars have got a lot safer. I wonder if autonomous vehicles will change that...
- mastazi 9y agoThe designer, Trevor Fiore, also created another great concept car, the Citroën Xenia, info and pictures here: http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xenia/xenia.html http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xenia/xenia.html
- the-dude 9y agoWhich seems to be a precursor to the Espace? ( Renault )
- masklinn 9y agoThe Espace was conceived of a bit earlier, in the mid-70s. PSA (Peugeot Citroën) could actually have owned it: the project was a partnership between Matra and Simca (originally concepted by Chrysler UK), PSA acquired Simca in '78 but found the Espace project too risky and expensive so they left it to Matra, which brought it up with Renault.
- kbart 9y agoWhy does anybody need two calculators on the driving wheel?[0] 0. http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xenia/images/xenia12.jpg http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xenia/images/xenia12....
- wil421 9y agoMy parents had a late 80s 5 series that had something similar looking to a calculator/phone. It was used to control the computer in the car.
- woobar 9y agoMercedes used to have a "calculator" in the center console on all their models up until a few years ago. 2014 E-class: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/97/23/d7/9723d7b0476d796c5919a1692f9b6569.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/97/23/d7/9723...
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- LoSboccacc 9y ago"alfa can I copy your work?" "yes but don't make it obvious" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoStraight lines ruled back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Lagonda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Lagonda
- LoSboccacc 9y agothat 70s retro futuristic style https://it.pinterest.com/soulgarage/70-s-architecture/?lp=true https://it.pinterest.com/soulgarage/70-s-architecture/?lp=tr...
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoLet's hope it's a long time before that comes back in style again.
- com2kid 9y ago100% disagree, I think those houses look amazing. The brutalism ones aren't always my thing, but that second house (labeled 70's prefab) looks great.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoReminiscent of the Countach (https://assets.hemmings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2014/08/1974LamborghiniCountach_01_1280.jpg https://assets.hemmings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2014/08...) and Lotus Elise (http://momentcar.com/images/lotus-esprit-1980-9.jpg http://momentcar.com/images/lotus-esprit-1980-9.jpg).
- sapphire_tomb 9y agoThat's a Lotus Espirit, not an Elise.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoAh, apologies; confirmation by Google SERP was my ruination!
- emmelaich 9y agoMore reminiscent of the Marzal, I think. Not beautiful, but very stylish. And an actual production car. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lamborghini+marzal&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lamborghini+marzal&tbm=is...
- Aardwolf 9y agoIt is difficult to look more late 70s/early 80s than this car :) But interestingly, the blue car behind it in this picture looks almost like the design of a modern city car from today to me. So that's where the real vision was? http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/karin/images/005.jpg http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/karin/images/005.jpg EDIT: I might be wrong, I assumed the photo was from the 1980 Paris Salon show due to the article text above it, but it's probably from later. Oops.
- OJFord 9y agoThat looks exactly like the Xsara Picasso of early 2000s.
- agumonkey 9y agoImpressive. We live in 80s secret concepts ...
- anentropic 9y agomaybe that's a more recent photo from a Citroen museum...?
- romeoEtJoliet 9y agoI think you're probably right. The headlamp shape leads me to believe that the blue car is a Citroen Xanae prototype (http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xanae/xanae.html http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/xanae/xanae.html), an MPV prototype/predecessor for the Picasso.
- Aardwolf 9y agoThanks for pointing out, I edited my comment to show the mistake. The article text above it and graininess of the photos really seemed to make them from 1980 :/
- Tade0 9y agoOne dead giveaway are the A-pillars. Manufacturers back in the day didn't imagine we would have side curtains and double reinforcements in pillars today.
- rsp1984 9y agoEngine before the front axis, making the engine weight work against the rear-axis, ouch! That's a recipe for poor driving dynamics. This could have legs as an EV though.
- anentropic 9y agoshared by many contemporary cars and apparently not a big problem
- jandrese 9y agoJust like most Audis? One has the feeling that Audi would mount the engine in front of the headlights if they could get away with it.
- scrumper 9y agoGood find. Looks like a good amount of the interior ergonomics did make it to production cars: it reminds me a lot of the early 90s Citroen BX. Very similar steering wheel, wrap around buttons on the driver's binnacle. And the hydropneumatoc suspension of course - a Citroen signature and a brilliant piece of engineering.
- sjonniesjon 9y agoReminds me of the good old Matra Murena! http://petrolblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Matra-Murena-Europes-forgotten-sports-car.jpg http://petrolblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Matra-Muren... A french three seater although mid-engined and regular lefthand drive instead of center the look quite alike. They were built in the early 80ies as well, looks like sharing of concepts :)
- derjames 9y agolooks very similar to a Delorean
- sjonniesjon 9y agoBoth from 1981, roughly same build numbers and quite unreliable cars underperforming for what they were built for.. but they look amazing nonetheless and turns most heads around :p
- jacquesm 9y agoAwesome car, I saw one still driving around in the south of France last year.
- sjonniesjon 9y agoI owned one for almost 7 years. Great fun to drive although not as sporty as it looks, especially lack of power. The handling/cornering is just impeccable though and makes it a real good fun car which does _not_ cost a fortune
- jacquesm 9y agoThey're getting pretty rare now. I remember being glued to the window of one as a kid, mind blown about how this spaceship had landed in the city.
- userbinator 9y agoSomewhat reminiscent of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_DMC-12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_DMC-12 which actually made it into (limited) production.
- honestoHeminway 9y agoWhy cant i buy this? You can buy a i8 today- but you cant, why?
- mwexler 9y agoLike Gibson's story "The Gernsback Continuum", I see cars like this and, I see that, for a moment, the future we dreamed of is finally coming true... then it fades back to reality, where instead we have... http://www.caranddriver.com/bentley/bentayga http://www.caranddriver.com/bentley/bentayga
- crispyambulance 9y agoYeah, there's a retro-future optimism in that car that's very attractive and playful but ultimately sad. It represents a future that "could have been". Reminds me a little of the work by the designer Luigi Colani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Colani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Colani).
- oatsandsugar 9y agoThat instrument cluster!
- ivm 9y agoThere's a nice Tumblr blog about cars like this: https://wehickles.tumblr.com/ https://wehickles.tumblr.com/
- kikimaru 9y agoMeanwhile, I'm STILL waiting for someone to build Gordon Murray's T.25 / T.27 3-seater cars. Last I checked, Shell bought the idea & rebranded it to "Project M" http://shell.com/projectm http://shell.com/projectm
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- maxxxxx 9y agoCitroen always has built different and innovative cars. And they brought them to market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV A lot of their cars had pneumatic suspension and other interesting tech.
- trgn 9y agoTheir last great car is the C6 imho. Got to drive one for a number of long distance trips. So incredibly luxurious. Looks terrific too.
- microcolonel 9y agoThe DS is arguably the most innovative automobile of the century.
- richev 9y agoTechnically, hydropneumatic suspension[1]. Very expensive when it breaks (speaking from personal experience...) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspension
- gusmd 9y agoBeing from Brazil where Citroen has decent market presence, it saddens me that I can't buy them here in the US. They have such nice-looking, modern vehicles, and I would love to be able to buy them in the US. Same goes for other french manufacturers like Peugeot. I used to drive a 207 during grad school. Loved that little car.
- KGIII 9y agoBoth are slated to return to the US market, with limited models and over the nex few years. Time will tell, but both have announced plans to do so.
- linksnapzz 9y agoThere is an individual in the NYC area who has managed to acquire and register (get NY plates for) a late-model Citroen C6, which was to my great disappointment never officially imported to the US. Very, very jealous.
- aidenn0 9y agoThe thing I can't stand is that, since Mazda stopped selling the Mazda5, compact MPVs don't exist in the US.
- overcast 9y agoThe exterior makes no sense, it's like a kid building a lego car. The interior is pretty rad though.
- rajeshp1986 9y agoStraight from a sci-fi movie.
- stijnsanders 9y agoThe last image on that page has text in Dutch, I took a few moment to have a quick translate. (P.S.: I have no idea what they meant with that last sentence)... In the last 20 years, every stylist has met the forcing limits of designing a car, set by the cost, production methods and the ever growing regulation. But this situation has had little consequences for the standardisation of cars, it's more due to market probes that there's a danger of all cars looking the same. There's that many investments involved that the stakeholders don't dare create a car that deviates too much from the normal. Currently in Europe cars increasingly look very similar and the public is taking notice. This is an opportunity Citroën should take: its image has always been about creating cars that are different than the rest and that's undoubtedly what's the buyer is seeking these days. At the Automobile Salon in Paris 1980, Citroën presented 'a dream car', designed by it's 'Design Bureau': the Karin. This prototype is the first stage of research into the mid-range: 2 'wing'-doors coupé with 3 separate seats with the driver's seat in the center. The car is 3.70 meter long (145.7 inch), 1.075 meter high (42.3 inch) and 1.90 meter wide (74.8 inch). It has front wheel drive. The interior is also avant-gardistic. An electronic screen continually provides information about the condition and performance of several elements of the car. Though the esthetic design of massively produced cars has improved all these years, their style risks turning somewhat monotonous, since the designers get less playing room due to inceasing external demands. With this in mind the 'Bureau de Style Citroën' has undertaken this 'design exercise' to reasearch the impact of a body with really clear lines on the car buying public. With designing this car an attempt is made to describe an offer for the future.