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Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

• grecy 9y ago
  For all of Elon's attempts to "unsell" the Model 3, this review says it's fantastic enough to sell itself.
  • mandeepj 9y ago
    > Elon's attempts to "unsell" the Model 3 Yes, he tried a lot to unsell it earlier but he was trying to sell it while giving access to today's live stream :-)
• mack1001 9y ago
  If everything goes right, Model 3 can change the business model of cars. Shift to value add + functionality upgrade based pricing versus a sales and service oriented model.
  • threeseed 9y ago
    I don't see this happening. Look at computers or the home CE market. We've moved away from buying something once and then upgrading it over a period of time. Instead consumers are attracted to new devices, with more features and most importantly a refreshed design. When you have plastics that age, seats that wear and parts that fail people are always going to want to buy a new car instead of adding new features to an old one.
    • martin-adams 9y ago
      I feel that the portable market changed the buying habit. The race to make things smaller, lighter and more powerful won over the benefits of modularity. I do agree that the mindset shift will also apply to cars. The difference is cars have a stronger resale market than tech.
    • hypersoar 9y ago
      Buying a new $700 phone every couple years is a very different thing from buying a new $40,000 car because you can't get it fixed.
      • chronic8k 9y ago
        > Buying a new $700 phone every couple years is a very different thing from buying a new $40,000 car because you can't get it fixed. Isn't that what they said about the iPhone when it was first released? Perhaps your income level is less than the target market segment for the Tesla Model 3.
      • am1988 9y ago
        Especially when most people are insulated from the cost of the phone. A car is a major purchase. It's the most expensive thing most people own other than a house.
  • randyrand 9y ago
    Also they own the repair market. You can't get your tesla serviced at a normal shop as the software, parts, and diagnostics are proprietary, so they could actually sell the car at a loss and make the big bucks on repairs. I don't want this. But its a viable business model.
    • ArloL 9y ago
      Actually this is the way most manufacturers already work today. That's why they are so slow to shift to electric - less spare parts.
    • Tomte 9y ago
      Won't fly in Europe. They will have to open up all their diagnostics and special tools.
      • zild3d 9y ago
        isn't it already flying in europe?
    • agumonkey 9y ago
      The parts were supposed to be reduced compared to an ICE. What kind of important parts would they service ? (open question) Proprietary diagnostics is not surprising, not a lot of cars right now have that amount of electronics and software, it's probably reverse engineering to get a glimpse of the car brain on your own.
      • TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
        From what I've heard Telsa vehicles rare in for warranty repairs at a higher rate than most other new vehicles. "The main problem areas involved the drivetrain, power equipment, charging equipment, giant iPad-like center console, and body and sunroof squeaks, rattles, and leaks." The most common problems involve replacement of the electric motors, warped brake rotors, door handles that fail to slide out as a driver approaches, and numerous squeaks and rattles, which may be more apparent given the very quiet nature of electric propulsion. Other problem areas cited by Tesla owners are leaking cooling pumps for the battery pack, dead windshield wipers, persistent alignment issues with the wheels, and misaligned latches for the front trunklid and the rear liftgate. Thus far, all such problems have been handled under Tesla's four-year/50,000-mile warranty (it's eight years and unlimited mileage on the powertrain)--and owners appear to be pleased with the level of attentiveness and customer service they have received. But Consumer Reports notes that once the car is out of warranty, such problems could become expensive for owners of older Teslas to fix. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100561_tesla-model-s-too-many-problems-to-recommend-consumer-reports-says http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100561_tesla-model-s-to...
• kumarvvr 9y ago
  What sort of maintenance are performed on these cars?? Seems like there is nothing to be maintained, given the all steel, aluminum, glass stuff everywhere. Does it have any oil changes required, like in brakes or transmission?
  • narrator 9y ago
    There is no transmission. The electric motor has 100% torque at 0 rpm and easily runs in reverse.
    • stepik777 9y ago
      There is a transmission. At least in Model S: 1-speed fixed gear (9.73:1).
  • olex 9y ago
    Brake fluid needs to replaced eventually, same as in ICE cars. But that's only once in several years. No oil, no transmission fluid. And yeah, you need to refill windshield washer fluid every once in a while too :) Other than that, since there are much fewer moving parts, there is much less regular maintenance necessary. Brake pads and discs survive much longer thanks to regenerative braking.
    • biehl 9y ago
      It has electric brakes, right?
      • sliken 9y ago
        It has regen, which is basically energy capture via electric brakes. But it also has regular breaks, most drivers don't use them much so they last a really long time.
        • jabl 9y ago
          How does it work? Does it use regen exclusively if you press the brake pedal lightly, and then the mechanical brakes are only engaged when you stomp on the pedal, or?
• tobyhinloopen 9y ago
  I love the Model S but this one is a bit too minimalistic for me
• jimmcslim 9y ago
  Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is perhaps still in my peripheral vision when I check my speedo, its less so if I am glancing at the centre console (which maybe has a bunch of other distracting things on it as well?)
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  • erikpukinskis 9y ago
    The screen is not in the center console it sticks above the dash. Seems like the speed is probably just as close to the road as any other vehicle if not closer. Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason?
    • jimmcslim 9y ago
      Thanks for teaching me a new word! Saccade! Yes, I do think it is worse, but that's just my gut feel, presumably Telsa designer's think otherwise. Not many other cars with the speed in the center console (older new-generation Minis come to mind though).
      • sunstone 9y ago
        You might be in over your head with a guy who knows a word like saccade.
        • deleted 9y ago
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    • manigandham 9y ago
      > Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason? Yes, definitely. You don't? Vertical movement is much easier, just try it. It's also easier to focus since one eye isn't farther away or blocked by your nose.
• Animats 9y ago
  Nice, but $59,500 as shown. Not $35,000. The real-world price has crept up. The base model has a small battery. The Tesla Model S starts at $68,000. So the real-world price is down only 13% from the Model S.
  • sxates 9y ago
    To be fair, a base Model S doesn't have all the autopilot stuff and upgrade sound and everything else. So to compare equivalent equipment packages, that Model S is a lot more than $9k more.
    • tetraodonpuffer 9y ago
      doesn't the model S though also give you free access to superchargers (unlike the model 3 where you have to pay)? This should factor in the comparison if you live close to one and/or plan a lot of cross country trips where they are available
      • mdorazio 9y ago
        No, not anymore. That was phased out for new Model S's a few months ago (existing owners were allowed to keep free charging) [1]. http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/13/technology/tesla-supercharger-pricing/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/13/technology/tesla-supercharge...
      • mikeash 9y ago
        The value of free Supercharging is fairly small for most people. If you drive 12,000 miles/year and 25% of your driving is Supercharged, you'll end up paying something like $100/year in Supercharger fees for a Model 3.
  • hughes 9y ago
    The base Model S does not match the range or features of the as-shown Model 3.
    • 9y ago
• anon4728 9y ago
  Can't wait for DragTimes to do a 1/4 mile track test of the Model 3 75D.
• booop 9y ago
  No comments on the interiors? It looks more befitting in a prototype than a $36,000+ car.
  • Animats 9y ago
    The interior looks like it's intended for automatic driving.
  • sliken 9y ago
    Never really understood the "luxury" interiors with huge number of details, materials, mixes of leathers, wood, different kinda of metal, etc. The interior that stood out to me was porsche 911 from around 1970. Not distracting, simple, robust, and lasts 30 years (when I saw it). A larger display for excellent situational awareness (map, gps, dozen or so cameras, ultrasonic, and radar). What were you hoping for? A few dozen chrome knobs sprinkled around? There's already two knobs on the right and left of the steering wheel, hopefully you can customize them for whatever you use the most. They didn't mention speech recognition. But if my phone can manage to be woken up and nav to wherever I need to go, seems like it shouldn't be too far behind for tesla. Two knobs, big screen, and voice prompts sounds good to me.
    • ardit33 9y ago
      Touch screens are terrible to use while driving, especially for frequent operations (volume, change stations, climate control, hazard lights, wipers, etc). The current trend is to push more into these touch interfaces, but most car manufactures have still left some of the more important ones as physical buttons. For tesla the matter is not ergonomics, but simply cost.
      • _ph_ 9y ago
        Thats why you have the two scroll-wheel knobs on the steering wheel. You select a function and then you can adjust them with a physical control while driving.
      • prostoalex 9y ago
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• sunstone 9y ago
  There's also a review up at the verge as well. He seemed to like the interior for its elegant simplicity. And mentioned that having the speed on the LCD was likely better for him than having in the usual place. The new prius is similar in that regard.
• headmelted 9y ago
  I'm certain if I ever own a Tesla, it'll be a long way into the future. I'm glad they keep pushing forward though, it's causing the infrastructure to advance to a point where I'm almost ready to go fully EV. Where I am, a low-mileage (20-30k) 3-5 year old Nissan Leaf is the equivalent of around $12k with no road tax to pay. And it gets around 150mpg equivalent due to electricity prices. Exciting times!
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  • perryh2 9y ago
    The Nissan Leaf is a terrible EV. The 3-5 year old models you mention have very low range (~60 miles). That's why they're so cheap. People that own them are constantly mindful of their charge % and are always on the lookout for charging stations if they're deviating from their normal commutes. I've seen many of them run out of juice on the leftmost lanes during commute hours too, causing even more congestion for miles. If you were looking at new cars, you can get a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 200+ mile range for not much more than a new Leaf.
    • ctdonath 9y ago
      I drove a Leaf daily for two years. Wonderful vehicle. Know the limits, drive sensibly.
      • headmelted 9y ago
        Genuinely interested in following this up - may I ask why you don't drive it anymore? (I hear circumstantially about a lot of people going back to combustion cars but never why. Is it a range thing?)
        • ctdonath 9y ago
          Admittedly, Georgia made it practically free to lease for two years. Lease ended, gave it back. Buying one outright was a viable option, but buying wife a nice newish SUV (while I kept the old SUV) won out; she had dibs on the next vehicle and wanted something big.
• anjc 9y ago
  I'm sure it's a great car in person, but from a casual observer's perspective, the dash looks like they upcycled the trim from a 70s car/station wagon/boat by sticking a shitty Android tablet onto it. It reminds me of something they'd whip up on Mythbusters to remotely drive off a cliff, under tight budget constraints.
  • pentae 9y ago
    This statement seems unnecessarily harsh. To me it looks like a next generation interior that can be customised with software to support autonomous driving for non-owners of the vehicle.
  • bryanlarsen 9y ago
    The motor trend reviewer described it as Scandinavian minimalistic, which is more associated with the 60s and midcentury modern style.
• Roritharr 9y ago
  I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars. Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1% of the new car value taxed as income each month and don't have to provide a driving log. The company pays for leasing, gas and maintenance. That's where electric cars savings on fuel and maintenance don't affect business customers, they don't care mostly because the company pays for the gas anyway and is used to do that so it will stay that way quite a while. I just hope they give a tax break on the 1% rule, so it's just 0,5 or something similar that makes these cars more desirable compared to a similar priced gas guzzler.
  • olex 9y ago
    EVs (and PHEVs) already profit under the 1% rule - the base price gets reduced for the tax calculations, based on the battery size. I am absolutely planning on getting my Model 3 as a company car with the 1% regulation - my company has a Tesla leasing contract, and Tesla confirmed to me on the phone that I can convert my private Model 3 reservation to a company car, keeping the place in the queue and delivery schedule.
    • Roritharr 9y ago
      Sadly that taxbreak runs out in 2022 and until then declines every year, while not being that substantial. It's tied to battery capacity and maxes out at currently 8000€ from the new price. So with a Model S in a base configuration without any features for example you have to tax 600€ per month instead of 680€. That's a 12% reduction in tax burden, nothing that would push me towards a car in that price range, especially if I had to then accept less features for a similar price. For a Model 3 its more favorably pushing it up to 20-25%, but once again, compared to a similar priced gas guzzler, the feature/cost ratio isn't there, even if you compare it to relatively expensive BMWs or VWs. I'm currently looking for a new company car and own Tesla stock so look at these numbers quite closely because I'd love to get a Tesla, but it isn't cost effective to get one if you can't factor in the gas savings and maintenance savings.
• elmar 9y ago
  The Tesla Model 3 has the most minimalistic interior I've ever seen http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-minimalistic-interior-2017-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-minimalistic-in...
  • _ph_ 9y ago
    Which is, as long as it doesn't cut important functionality away, for me very preferable to an interior style littered with screens and buttons and knobs. I think the Model 3 is even an improvement to the S there, you have a more minimalistic looking interior even, but they added important usability with proper door handles and pockets and the center console.
    • hoorayimhelping 9y ago
      I got a 2017 Subaru Impreza with a touch screen interface. Terrible idea on a car. I'm constantly accidentally grazing the touch screen and changing things that I'm not sure of cause I'm watching the road. Too many buttons is awful, but a touchscreen is even worse. You need some kind of physical feeling when you're not looking at the screen and your brain isn't being tricked by the screen.
      • elmar 9y ago
        Personally I think the touchscreen option was because of lower cost and more options when updating the car software.
    • 4ad 9y ago
      > Which is, as long as it doesn't cut important functionality away, for me very preferable to an interior style littered with screens and buttons and knobs. I very much agree with you here with one exception. I wish there was the option of no center screen at all. I don't want maps and whatever multimedia features it offers. As for the stuff that you have to have that you now access only through the center console, they could still put it in the center, just in place of the screen rather than on the screen.
• adventured 9y ago
  I'm curious about the risk of the center detached tablet becoming a loose, dangerous projectile in the event of a crash. I haven't seen anything so far on how they've attached it to ensure that's not a problem in hard collisions.
  • mlvljr 9y ago
    Heads chopped off by a tablet?
  • akx 9y ago
    I think "tablet" is a misnomer here (though understandable) - calling it a touchscreen would be better. Anyway, seems it's sturdily attached: http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model-3-front-interior-seats.jpg http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model...
• mtgx 9y ago
  > Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from “kilowatt-hours” to “range.” I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this is quite disappointing to hear. I suppose "range" could be used in the same way, but range is less "hard factual", as they can twist it however they want, unless they actually use the EPA and WLTP cycles.
  • davidgould 9y ago
    > Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. Well, yes and no. Teslas have very low Cd, so are aerodynamically efficient for their size, but they use AC induction motors which are less efficient then the PM DC motors in most other EVs. Compared to the Bolt or the Hyundai Ioniq the Teslas are less efficient at lower speeds.
    • DennisP 9y ago
      Now I'm curious, what is the advantage of AC induction motors?
      • zwily 9y ago
        It's a good question: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-does-a-tesla-car-use-an-ac-motor-instead-of-a-dc-one https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-do...
    • mikeash 9y ago
      The efficiency difference is pretty small, something like 2%. The main reason Teslas are less efficient is that they're big and heavy.
  • zwily 9y ago
    Tesla does advertise the EPA range.
  • 9y ago
• foobarge 9y ago
  Nice but still not what I need. I need a long range electric car whose interior I won't be afraid to damage from time to time. I need something that moves me, my family and my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails, mountaineering gears, etc..) to where I need to be, not something for showing-off and asserting status. The large screen in the middle of the car is a non complete non-starter - lots of the stuff I carry in my car are going to poke nice holes in it: what a joke. Tesla (or anyone else), please build a cheap, high-impact plastic, no-large-screen interior car with front and rear seats I can fold for lots of room and I'll buy them for the rest of my life. What I want is a long-range electric 4x4 Renault Kangoo that is not a utility vehicle. I'm sure it can be built.
  • joelrunyon 9y ago
    Sounds like you're not really their target customer.
    • foobarge 9y ago
      Alas not yet.
  • jessriedel 9y ago
    > ...my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails, mountaineering gears, etc..) to where I need to be, not something for showing-off and asserting status. Not everyone shows off with fancy cars. Some people like to talk about their rugged athleticism and outdoor adventures.
    • foobarge 9y ago
      I'm not exactly implying that buying a car to show off and assert status is reprehensible. Have I touched a nerve? Anyways - I'm just saying that I hope EV manufacturer move up (or down) the immaculate luxurious interiors trip sooner rather than later so that some of us can buy and start using EVs without having to constantly worry about ruining a design project we're probably not worthy of.
• acomjean 9y ago
  Rear wheel drive? For those of us in snowy places....
  • andriussev 9y ago
    .. fun? Hehe.
  • falcolas 9y ago
    Agreed. Especially really torquie rear wheel drives, where the slightest bit too much pressure on the gas will send your rear end zooming around. I'm to the point where I only ever want to drive AWD vehicles in the winter. A safe and predictable commute is worth the slight markup.
    • mikeash 9y ago
      The EV drivetrain lets Tesla have amazing traction control. As long as you don't hammer the accelerator in a turn, it's fine.
      • falcolas 9y ago
        Have you tried it on ice? Or just dry/wet roads? AWD/FWD/RWD all behave very differently on ice/snow, regardless of traction control.
        • mikeash 9y ago
          Yes, I've tried it on ice and snow. When going straight, the traction control is so good that you don't even know it's there aside from the lack of acceleration. I can put my 360hp RWD car on an icy road and floor it from a stop, and nothing happens besides slowly increasing speed. Then back end will break loose if you floor it in a turn, but just don't do that.
          • falcolas 9y ago
            That cornering case is the precise case I don't want a RWD car. "Just don't do that" is a really poor attitude to take, especially when you can't tell at what point the rear end will break loose. I'm past the point in my life where I want the excitement of "will I recover this before I hit the ditch?"
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• fernly 9y ago
  This is impressive, > associate road test editor Erick Ayapana had penciled me into a 2.0-liter Alfa Romeo Giulia to get here, and it feels like a wet sponge by comparison.
• Keyframe 9y ago
  While I appreciate almost everything Tesla does, and I may be in minority with this opinion here, but damn are their cards ugly / generic looking. Especially so with the interior. I like spartan features, or lack of, but it's just - ugly.
• whitepoplar 9y ago
  For a while, I thought Tesla lacked taste. This new interior proves me wrong. It is simply stunning. This strikes me as the obvious future of automotive design.
• whitepoplar 9y ago
  Today, Tesla's design ability is about on par with Apple's circa 2000. But Tesla has much higher slope. Watch out.
• shopoholic 9y ago
  $60k fully loaded. So it is more of a 3-series competior than a Camry competitor. That's fine with me, but I'd like to see a review of the base one. Still looks like a fantastic car either way.
• headmelted 9y ago
  At this price I'm actually kind of interested in what the lease prices would be. I realize the waiting list is going to be really long of course, but the lease prices (assuming no opportunistic markup at the leasing company) should come in at a price point that actually makes this pretty cheap when fuel is taken into account. Hopefully Tesla have the good sense to embrace this wholeheartedly, as I suspect that's where the critical mass could come from (and due to the short timeframes on car leases, extremely rapidly).