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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

• coloneltcb 9y ago
  Buried lede: Dave McClure implicated and is out of daily operations at 500 Startups
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • rryan 9y ago
    /That's/ the lede you're taking away from this story? Some asshole's fall from grace?
    • nickpsecurity 9y ago
      Personally, I prioritize "A problem got solved" over "people are talking about problems." One thing I like about this article, the Uber situation, and so on is they're getting some results. The massive problem still remains and is the lede but that's another good one.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • jee_x 9y ago
    I used to cringe as every other word from him was the f word.
• s73ver 9y ago
  I hope this becomes more and more common, leading to actual protections against it, and not the "We're totally serious about combating harassment and sexism, this time, for reals" response that it seems has the the norm for the past several years.
• LordHumungous 9y ago
  Wealth protects you in America, and these VC's know it.
  • gragas 9y ago
    Where in the world doesn't wealth protect you?
    • nthcolumn 9y ago
      Russia
      • gragas 9y ago
        Putin's keeping 'em in line
• 55555 9y ago
  I would classify a small minority of these instances as "harrassment." Specifically, the groping. That's sexual assault. Most of the rest of it, though, in my opinion, is much ado about nothing. Now we live in a world where a guy can be publicly shamed for attempting to flirt or for making a pass at a woman he is interested in? If a woman sent me a Facebook message saying that she wanted to date me, or even sleep with me, and I wasn't interested, I would just say "No", not call a newspaper. It's an offer, not a rape. Newsflash: the workplace is the second most common place for couples to meet. People of different genders who are bound to sometimes be attracted to one another are going to be forced to spend long hours with one another. And a lot of people are not good with subtle cues, especially men. Uneven power dynamics makes this more complicated, but a complete social ban on any attempt at flirting is just silly. Speaking of uneven power dynamics, try to find me an example of a man reporting a woman to a newspaper because she offered to sleep with him.
• artorias 9y ago
  As a trans m2f2a pansexual, hearing strong women who are just like me standing up against sexual harassment fills my heart with hope and my eyes with tears of joy. Keep fighting the good fight ladies, for all of us!
• rl3 9y ago
  This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: >During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be reason enough to take pause for a moment, and maybe ponder why PR suicide seems like a good idea. >Mr. Canter, in an interview, said that Ms. Dent “came on strong to me, asking for help” and that she had used her sexuality publicly. He said he disliked her ideas so he behaved the way he did to make her go away. ??? >Lindsay Meyer, an entrepreneur in San Francisco, said Mr. Caldbeck put $25,000 of his own money into her fitness start-up in 2015. That gave Mr. Caldbeck reason to constantly text her; in those messages, reviewed by The Times, he asked if she was attracted to him and why she would rather be with her boyfriend than him. At times, he groped and kissed her, she said. That one's just downright pathological creepy in the extreme.
  • dba7dba 9y ago
    To me, this article explains it all. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/1-in-5-ceos-are-psychopaths-australian-study-finds/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/1-in-5-ceos-are-p... Many 'successful' people who make it to ceo are more likely to be a psychopath according to the article. And I would describe these actions of the men who are more likely to be psychopath, not normal.
    • dkarl 9y ago
      As a culture we are obsessed with psychopaths, but in reality there is nothing out of the ordinary about people who enjoy sadistically wielding power over others. You find them in every schoolyard. The difference between a psychopath and a bully is that bullies act in a way that increases their power and standing, so they are affected by (and can be constrained by) social and cultural norms, especially among adults. Our obsession with psychopaths (and the power fantasy it reflects) reinforces bullies' intuition that people secretly admire and envy their bad behavior.
  • deleted 9y ago
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• guiltyMisery 9y ago
  Gee, maybe people shouldn't be forced into working 60 hour work weeks to barely scrape by, and then we'd have time to try to socialize outside of work, form real relationships with people we're find ourselves attracted to, under appropriate circumstances. But no. Not a chance. We get roped into hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of hours of coding camps and university curiculum, and then spat out into a constant professional grind with treadmills that never end, and no other life beyond a professional one. Clothes, cell phones, cars, gas, houses, utilities, drinking, and razor thin budgets to maintain all these things, and no life except the life at work. Why are women getting mobbed and groped in the workplace, because there's no free time, and nobody actually has lives outside of work. Everyone is pent up, and there's no actual culture anymore. Just work. Don't pretend like this is a sexism thing. It's an economic thing. And not just some work/life balance garbage. This is about being able to afford to live a life among your peers, at eye level, just treading water, without working 80 hours and 3 jobs.
  • rdlecler1 9y ago
    Most senior VCs are quite well off are paid very well.
• 1024core 9y ago
  On the one hand, I cringe when reading such accounts, and wonder which one of the people around me are engaging in such behavior? On the other hand, I'm glad these women are going public, as nothing scatters cockroaches like sunlight.
• rdlecler1 9y ago
  Has anyone seen a policy on how to handle sexual harassment allegations in the work place? If it comes down to 'he says she says' do you fire someone even though you don't have evidence? Similarly, if you don't fire someone and new allegations come up later then it makes the employer look like they are an enabler.
  • glibgil 9y ago
    Policy: contact an attorney
  • kevinburke 9y ago
    > If it comes down to 'he says she says' do you fire someone even though you don't have evidence? If an employee of yours said they were raped by another employee, would you make them go to the hospital and get a rape kit before believing what they said? If an employee of yours said they got mugged and lost their laptop, would you demand security camera footage before replacing it? You should default to trusting your employees. You hired them! They are invested in the company, potentially with equity! Especially in at-will employment agreements, I think this should be much closer to "Management reserves the right to let go of anyone at any time for any reason" than the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
    • dragonwriter 9y ago
      If you don't do any validation, this will be noticed and you will encourage false reports as a means of settling unrelated personal scores. That management reserves the right to dismiss for any reason doesn't mean that dismissing based on bare unconfirmed complaints is reasonable, either morally or from a business perspective.
      • andyburke 9y ago
        Where are you working that you can reasonably imagine this happening? The risks of someone making this claim are so, so high, yet you believe someone would do this just to 'settle unrelated personal scores'?
• CydeWeys 9y ago
  This is a watershed moment in the VC industry. The dam has finally burst, and we're now seeing the establishment of a new norm in which women who are being harassed go public rather than feeling compelled to hide it. Expect to see many men who were operating under the old norms getting ousted.
  • 5thaccount 9y ago
    I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.
    • nickpeterson 9y ago
      These men are not attractive enough to make this ok.
      • sidlls 9y ago
        "It's okay if you're attractive enough" is wrong on multiple levels no matter how it's phrased.
        • nickpeterson 9y ago
          That joke would have been ok if it was funny enough.
        • kelukelugames 9y ago
          Maybe the best way to phrase this is "If there is mutual attraction." Plenty of people marry their co workers. And there are plenty of non creepy/harassing ways to figure out if someone else is interested.
          • sidlls 9y ago
            That's a bit of a different scenario, though. The statement I objected to is sexist in at least one of these two ways: 1) it presumes that women appreciate these advances from men in positions of power simply because they're attractive (i.e. that harrassment is "forgiven by default" if it's done by an attractive guy) or, 2) women are vacuous and easily charmed by attractive men to the point where they don't recognize sexual harassment for what it is.
• NelsonMinar 9y ago
  I'm ashamed of my colleagues and my industry.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • kevinburke 9y ago
    You can work to make it better! A lot of the recommendations in the Holder Report would be useful for any company.
• Apocryphon 9y ago
  How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?
  • GuiA 9y ago
    The answer to your question, as other commenters are pointing out, is in the "seem". They seem to have less flagrant issues, but that's just appearances. While tech still has a very long way to go, at least speaking up is becoming acceptable, and won't bar you from the industry for life. An Uber engineer who speaks up will never work for Uber again, but she can still find work in the industry (if she so desires). Someone who speaks up on Wall Street will be "marked" for life and never have the opportunity to work on Wall Street again.
    • sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Why is this downvoted, let alone so heavily? Maybe saying something will correct it.
    • ithinkinstereo 9y ago
      You're absolutely correct about being "marked" on Wall Street. Unlike tech, most professional services (banking/consulting/law), don't require particularly skill, but rather the right pedigree, connections, and social background. Getting a job in IBD at a bulge bracket means years of striving: the right schools, the right social networks, the right way of "talking", the right "look". The rewards are massive: $100-200-300K bonuses even as a young analyst is the the norm. Loyalty, being able to "eat shit", etc are the traits most admired on the street. Being a "troublemaker" and speaking out against harassment (not even just sexual in nature, but just plain bullying/hazing) earns you the label as "weak" and out of a job. If you've been striving all your life for one of these coveted jobs, you can imagine the immense pressure to grit it out, collect your fat bonus, and drink, snort, and purchase-expensive-toys your stresses away.
  • sadfjhsdf66 9y ago
• austenallred 9y ago
  I had always heard the constant murmur of sexual harassment happening in the Valley, but I was never sure if there was any merit to it. I anecdotally had never seen anything that would even come close to a situation like those described, so I kind of brushed it off. But then articles like these come out. Wow. These are some of the kingpins of Silicon Valley shown sexually harassing with hard, factual evidence. I had no idea.
  • meredydd 9y ago
    Aside, and not meant at you specifically, but: Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _believe it_. That constant murmur is the sound of a thousand stories like this that don't (yet) have the coordination to hit the pages of the NYT at the same time and become "credible". A month ago, there were dozens of female founders sitting on stories like this who were still afraid to go public. And they were afraid because good, decent people like you, who "had never seen anything like it" would "dismiss it out of hand" if they told. (Obligatory disclaimers: You don't need to believe every story 100% unconditionally, but "a constant murmur" = "multiple corroborating sources" and should not be ignored. Also, I want to praise rather than criticise the parent comment, because acknowledging why we were ignoring these stories is a vital first step to not ignoring the next one we hear.)
    • austenallred 9y ago
      While there's something to your comment, and I fully recognize I was in the wrong here, I would still have a really hard time believing in a constant murmur of bad behavior. Give credence enough to investigate and consider much more fully that I would have previously, absolutely, but I draw the line before "believe." Maybe that's just semantics.
      • meredydd 9y ago
        Yep. What I'm saying we should learn from this, and Uber, and all the rest is that we should treat "a constant murmur" as much stronger evidence than we currently do. (Not necessarily a slam dunk - but, in Bayesian terms, it should shift your priors much more now than it would have before these stories came out.) Edit: Although really, what stronger evidence will you ever get? I suppose you could get a personal account from someone you trust (but that's not something you're going to hear if you're in the habit of brushing off such stories - most commonly, "honey, are you sure you're not just misinterpreting him?"). Barring that, a constant stream of similar rumours is the only evidence of a problem like this you will ever hear - until there is a "Susan Fowler event". Update accordingly.
• ChuckMcM 9y ago
  I give a lot of credit to women like Susan Fowler who were brave enough to speak out, with starting what feels a bit like a tidal wave. I hope we see similar light shone on institutionalized racism.
  • HarryHirsch 9y ago
    You'd rather say that she was sufficiently well connnected to make her voice heard. Even then she came public only after she had left the company and was employed elsewhere.
    • xenadu02 9y ago
      > You'd rather say that she was sufficiently well connnected to make her voice heard. Most complaints of this nature damage the victim's career prospects and/or end up with loss of job/funding/etc. There is rarely evidence because the few who perpetrate this kind of behavior often deliberately avoid leaving evidence. They also rely on societal signals that most people don't believe it or don't care. It isn't very hard to figure out. Every rape trial includes a huge segment on what the victim was wearing, as if that mattered. The message is clear: this is the way powerful people work, deal with it. > Even then she came public only after she had left the company and was employed elsewhere Which is damn smart on her part.
    • linkregister 9y ago
      Indeed. Anyone who was old enough to understand the Clarence Thomas sexual harassment investigation can recall how much Anita Hill was dragged through the mud, despite having a compelling case. I think the fact that Susan was not currently suing Uber was the primary reason why her story was believed by the general public. The critics who would howl "she's just trying to make false accusations for a payday" had no ammunition. Either that or things have dramatically changed for the better since the 90s.
      • ChuckMcM 9y ago
        > Either that or things have dramatically changed for > the better since the 90s. I expect it is a bit of both.
• femboner 9y ago
  Better PR departments?
  • eric_h 9y ago
    Honestly I think higher ups in finance have more money to use to sweep it under the rug.
    • nickpsecurity 9y ago
      As femboner said, there's whole companies in public relations and image management dedicated to doing stuff like that. Plus individuals with a great representation for misrepresenting stories. Spin doctors I believe they're called.
  • dang 9y ago
    This username looks to have been intended as trolling. That's not allowed (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433189), so I've banned the account. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674145 and marked it off-topic.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• nickpsecurity 9y ago
  Good that they came out, many admitted to it, and some are gone. That's the good news. Still, one was extra weird and messed up that I had to at least look at both of them in how they presented themselves: Marc Cantor vs Wendy Dent. It was one of few where little info and no picture was available for the woman. It already presented his background plus him admitting he sent sexual and weird messages to her in response to her alleged flirting with him and/or presenting herself with sex appeal. Common line of BS but sometimes true. Curious, esp of just what she looks like (I like faces on names), I looked her up: http://www.wendydent.com/short-bio http://www.wendydent.com/short-bio http://www.wendydent.com/red-carpets?page=0%2C1 http://www.wendydent.com/red-carpets?page=0%2C1 Wow. Got style of a fashion mag, big cleavage in another, then casual in another, and even dancing in front of fires in another. You could've told me the first set was a Hollywood screening or a fashion event with models pushing sexy outfits I'd believe either if it didn't say Hampton screening. That she might use sex appeal to her advantage is believable since many hard-working artists do. Just use every natural or acquired gift you have. She's also just interesting across the board from her bio to writing to photos. I'd consider asking her just because she seems a bit awesome and good looking. Uncommon combo at least in my circles. That said, I'd probably not do it as a venture capitalist helping her get funding just because of the liability. I might end up in a news article or something. If I did it, there'd be a brick wall between the two with me testing her interest up front. She can tell me what she's comfortable with taking me up on personal/professional interests anywhere from zero (dont work with me) to both. Truth told, her short bio has so much good stuff I'd probably fund her (or help her) on a film-related startup just based on her experience and success in film. I'd do it whether she was interested in me or not. Side discussion: There's also the side point that keeps coming to mind when I hear women complain that men they went to for money or professional advances showed interest in them. I'm always against anything extorting or harassment where women are clearly uninterested. That's obviously bad. Then, there seems to be an expectation that successful or professional men never show interest in any women who are skilled professionals or founders in favor of... lesser women in clubs, churches, or something? Telling me I must sacrifice all potential for a date or resulting relationship with such incredible women just because they're founders or something with nothing in return... while they can mostly do whatever they want... seems a bit arbitrary, unfair and lots of missed potential. One could argue financial benefits after acquisitions or IPO's from getting more women in but we men are already used to sacrificing time and money in some way for desirable women anyway. Startups come and go but (insert incredible founder) might only happen once. Just kind of musing on a concern I've heard from a lot of people in and mostly outside that field just talking about rules where men can never hit on or anything close women who are professionals. Also, every one I've heard from reported witnessing a varying chunk of those women would hit on or flit with men they liked who were professionals doing their job. They said that was OK since they initiated. That seemed like a double standard. I always hate those. Good news is other chunk only flirt outside of work to uphold the principle of work & dating separate. Respectable where they ask for a sacrifice and make it themselves. Many men might still not agree to the arbitrary rule, though.
• Mz 9y ago
  Saying anything, the women were warned, might lead to ostracism. The problem is that women are already being ostracized. When you can't get hired or you can't get VC money or you can't get business connections because the only time men will talk to you is to hit on you, you are already basically dead in the water as a business person. How do we get out of this dead end?
  • AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > How do we get out of this dead end? It's a chicken and egg problem. The biggest systemic factor is the absurd gender ratio, but if the consequences of that are self-reinforcing then the status quo remains. Many people have the instinct to turn to anti-harassment policies and enforcement, but that's like trying to fight cancer with aspirin. It might help a little bit but it's no cure no matter how much you use, and too much will cause problems without solving any. But "we need more women in tech" is just the problem statement. Nobody seems to actually know how to get there from here.
    • sokoloff 9y ago
      > But "we need more women in tech" is just the problem statement. Nobody seems to actually know how to get there from here. My wife and I are starting in our own tiny corner by volunteer teaching small age-appropriate and (hopefully) interesting topics in math, science, and engineering in K5, first, second, and third grade (as our kids go through those ages). The first seeds of the gender disparity in tech are sown in pre-teen years, IMO. There are also some significant selection effects later on, but I think those are smaller in magnitude than the original "Daddy, what can I be when I grow up?" programming.
    • ewjordan 9y ago
      One obvious step is that we need to do what we do in every other subject: force all children to learn enough tech to figure out whether they are good at it or not by making it a required class. When schools do that, they find that tons of girls excel at programming, but probably never would have tried it if it hadn't been mandatory. Dealing with harassment in the industry is also key, but even if that was eliminated completely it wouldn't close the gender gap that exists by the time kids graduate high school. And the educational bit is much more straightforward to implement, it just takes a lot of money to be thrown at the problem.
• azylman 9y ago
  I really hope that stories like this will let us stop blaming specific companies like Uber and accept that this is a problem with our industry. We're never going to be able to fix this as long as we keep sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it's not a systemic issue.
  • nickpsecurity 9y ago
    As with all corporate evils, it will require leadership from the top down establishing clear standards of behavior with strong enforcement. Simultaneously, external pressure via media, lawsuits, and missing key talent can be applied on companies not doing it or reinforcing those half-assing it.
    • mhluongo 9y ago
      Not sure I agree- because investors aren't in the same category as employers, it's harder for a founder to get any sort of justice for discrimination or harassment. AFAIK, the bar for a lawsuit is much higher. Also, most of these firms aren't huge organizations- they're small management teams with a couple partners and associates / analysts. From what I can tell on Crunchbase, Binary Capital was just Justin Caldbeck and Jonathan Theo before it imploded.
  • mhluongo 9y ago
    Can't we do both? Uber is especially bad and this is a systemic issue.
• horsecaptin 9y ago
  Something doesn't add up here. - Shouldn't the New York Times be reporting more often about sexual inequality on Wall Street? - Silicon Valley has fewer women. - Silicon Valley has the highest concentration of Scientific and Technical workers in the country - if you went to an American school, then you know where they stand in the hierarchy. Could it be that the lower number of women here is forcing the men to go out of their way to beat the drumbeat of female rights to their own detriment, while the rest of the country points, laughs and pressures them into even more submission? Something just doesn't add up.
  • xenity7 9y ago
    The technology industry is seen as progressive and cutting edge, therefore stories about sexism have more impact because they challenge a larger gap between perception and reality - "everyone knows" that finance is sexist. I'm not sure I completely understand the rest of your point, but I object to the idea that promoting women's rights is against the interest of men. Just society arguments aside, there is a basic economic argument about the talent that is being overlooked by pushing women out with sexism.
    • horsecaptin 9y ago
      Promoting and educating everyone of their rights is very important and essential to the function of a civil society. You're absolutely right that tech gets the beatdown because it is new. It is much more difficult for people to complain about their conditions in older industries without finding themselves unable to find another job in the same industry. The Tech industry, especially in Silicon Valley has the friendliest working environments. Why do news papers make it seem as if sexism is so rampant in the Valley? Why would a girl want to become an engineer if all she sees are stories about how badly women are treated in Silicon Valley?
  • shrewduser 9y ago
    I agree other industries with far worse issues don't get the same scrutiny. there are going to be pompous douche bags in any industry. and there's nothing worse than a horny male idiots with a little power.
• BadassFractal 9y ago
  It's an explosive combination of socially maladjusted nerds who suddenly ended up in positions of power in a location/industry with rather few women for them to influence with that authority + a new wave of progressive women trying to break into a male dominated space. It's going to be a rickety ride for sure. On a personal note, part of me was refusing to believe that someone like the partner at Binary was even possible in this day and age, I had never run into this myself and concluded this must have been a caricature at best. I must admit I was wrong to assume that, turns out those people are real. Hopefully there are very few of them, but I might have to change my mind on that one too soon.
  • api 9y ago
    > socially maladjusted nerds who suddenly ended up in positions of power A lot of people who are socially awkward when they're young work hard to overcome it. Some just naturally grow out of it. But some find a "trick" to avoid having to overcome it. The trick is simple: be an asshole. Being an asshole doesn't require any actual social skills, and very few people will challenge you. Most people just go along to get along since they don't want to risk the social cost or spend the energy to raise the issue. It's a great way to superficially escape social awkwardness without having to actually work at it.
• drenvuk 9y ago
  How much of this is actually illegal? In workplaces you have legal recourse but in this situation it doesn't seem like there's anything you can do except blast their name out there for everyone to see.
  • dragonwriter 9y ago
    The groping is probably illegal independent of workplace context, the stuff done in hiring is as illegal as if it was done during employment, much of rest is probably not illegal.
    • drenvuk 9y ago
      Somehow I missed the groping part. I was referring to the guys coming on to them while they were fundraising.
    • tuna-piano 9y ago
      I'm not commenting on the ethics of this, but the woman who was "groped" stated that she consented to it. I know this may seem distasteful, but whether she allows the kissing/groping because she's attracted to him or because she just needs his help, it's still consent in my mind: "I felt like I had to tolerate it because this is the cost of being a nonwhite female founder,"
      • dragonwriter 9y ago
        Toleration, as described there, is not consent.
• nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap?" Because any of them that aren't used to avoiding all the risky behaviors, whether doing it intentionally (asking for dates) or unintentionally ("discriminatory language"), will now worry that they'll be hit with newspaper articles that can destroy their career. They'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by good chunk of America. Association with them will taint many other employers who won't hire them. A percentage of the claims will also be fake to try to boost some woman's time in the spotlight. Interestingly, one woman here predicted image-conscious men would get a bit paranoid. I told her prediction was good since I've been hit with numerous false claims that were all disproven by witnesses by customers and coworkers alike. I'm blunt, never seeking popularity, and say controversial stuff (political moderate w/ flair for dark humor) that they felt would make me vulnerable with their great skill at manipulation, acting, gossip, and so on. Fortunately, each time I had at least one witness who was a white or black female (diverse team pays off) backing me up that I didn't say/do whatever they claimed with others (including semi-opponents) saying they agreed that basically I don't hurt workers or treat them unfairly. Due to the risk, I naturally didn't try to get a date with anyone when I was in leadership positions... despite much, much temptation since they were impressive inside & out. Later, I doubled down on that when false claims came in by people wanting to replace me as lead, get discounted product from me to benefit them, get better service(s) than other customers at a loss, attempt lawsuits against the company hoping for settlements (they never tried haha), get me fired for alleged mistreatment of customers, and so on. This shit happened to me so much that, as the HN commenter predicted, I started avoiding women or anything like those making the false claims (occasionally men) as much as possible unless professionally expected to deal with them and always on camera. I'd treat them [visibly and audibly] exactly like everyone else. I even considered wearing a recorder on me all day at work in case they (again) tried to make something look bad on camera reporting different words than actually exchanged. My female boss was too smart for that, though, blocking that individual's actions. So, this shit happens whenever the aggressive, scheming women (or men) see a way to get more for themselves at some seemingly-vulnerable man's (or woman's) expense. The possibility with its consequences should be considered. At least acknowledged if we're calling side-effects of reporting a necessary evil. It's happened to me personally numerous times since a PTSD-afflicted individual looks weak or nervous much of the time: a magnet for attackers. Oh well. What doesn't kill you makes you (stronger/stranger?). ;)
• graycat 9y ago
  I'm a US, straight (the subject of the OP is men hitting on women, so, for me to give my experience as examples, it's important to note that I'm a straight male), US, native born, white (for my examples, it's likely also relevant to note that I'm in the majority of the people in the subject of the OP), male. From my first girlfriend to my (late) wife, I've always treated girls/women as angels. But in the work place, I had several girls/women make it clear they wanted something physical and romantic, that is, sexual, with me. Example 1: I was a college prof also helping the college in practical computing, and she was on the college administrative staff. She wanted to talk to me. Leaning back in her office chair, facing me, her legs aimed at me, so I could get a view of the back side of her thighs, she put her feet up on her desk and announced that she and her husband had an "open marriage". I thought: Okay. Good for you. What's that got to do with me? I'm married, and my marriage is not "open". And even if it was, or even if I were not married, sorry. I make the first move, and this college is a target rich environment where you wouldn't pass the initial cutoff. Example 2: A student, call her a girl, wasn't doing very well in my applied math class. In class she sat in the front row with a sweater with too many buttons undone at the top. She looked terrified about my course. She came to see me in office hours. Sure, I'd give her in my office, any student, a one on one, personalized, repeat of the lectures, the course material, anything in the course, just tutor them if necessary. As I was going over some of the material trying to get her caught up, she sat close and rubbed her knee against my thigh. I thought: Okay. You seem desperate. But you are safe with me. Let's concentrate on the applied math and get you through this course. And there were several other examples. I was not upset, offended, afraid, outraged, threatened, worried, etc. And what complicated responses and reactions did I have to those proposals? Sure, exactly nothing, zip, zilch, zero. Easy. If we are to have gender equality, then maybe the women should do something similar? E.g., in steps: Ignore it and concentrate on the work. Quit smiling. Scowl. Say something nasty. Scream. Bite, scratch, kick. Have a 6" hat pin and use it. More advice: Don't dress like Fox Babes. Instead, if wearing skirts, have them about a foot longer so that when sitting the hem of the skirt is well over the knees, and modesty is preserved even if the knees are not together. If Rafe Testosteroni doesn't like the hat pin, then he should stay out of range. As a startup founder, CEO, the case I'm afraid of is too many of the females don't have enough pressing work to do, scare each other, form a herd, get highly energized and determined, and show up at my office with some lawyers complaining that Rafe Testosteroni routinely makes them "feel uncomfortable". Some of the women are convinced that Rafe is undressing them with his eyes. So far Rafe has never come within hat pin range, but all the women are very concerned. They all agree that they are highly concerned because they can't be sure just what Rafe is thinking or might do.
• taytus 9y ago
  Wow, think for a second how hard is to be an entrepreneur. All the shit we have to deal with at so many different levels. These women goes beyond that, literally putting everything on the line. Much respect.
  • maxxxxx 9y ago
    This has nothing to do with being an entrepreneur. The same behavior happens on all levels.
    • mhluongo 9y ago
      Entrepreneurs aren't protected the same way employees are, FWIW
• m-j-fox 9y ago
  I mean, we need more women in silicon valley. Legalize prostitution maybe. These guys have had so few encounters with the opposite sex that they haven't calibrated to social norms. Maybe start a fashion industry in DTSJ and to attract some non-technical females and things will even out.
• ngneer 9y ago
  These are horrible stories. Interesting to see if folks on HN have had the experience of being attracted to an interviewee/interviewer, or investee/investor, and how they dealt with it given the complexities involved.
  • deleted 9y ago
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  • sokoloff 9y ago
    Of course I have. I've also found waitresses or bartenders or other people attractive. If there wasn't a drive for sex programmed into us (as a species), we (as a species) probably would have been out-competed in evolution. How you deal with it is by ignoring it when it would be inappropriate to act on it (or at most, treat as a pleasant-but-valueless part of your day). Now (being married and holding very strict views on monogamy) it's perhaps even more clear/easier than when I was single, but even then it was clear that you don't hit on your waitress as an example. That easily extends to interviewees and subordinates at work or anywhere else where someone can't freely and without consequence say "Hey, maybe I'm flattered, but I'm definitely not interested." (For full disclosure, I have dated colleagues before and know of and support intra-company romances where there is no supervisory relationship. You don't have to close your eyes and pretend you will never find anyone at work to be subjectively attractive. You just have to not ever be an asshole about it, and that's not that hard a goal.)
  • jshevek 9y ago
    I don't understand the question "how they dealt with it." You deal with it the same way you deal with being attracted to a married person. You ignore the attraction. It seems to me that every decent person must have urges/desires which they are better off ignoring on a regular basis. Sexual or romantic attraction needn't be any different.
• auganov 9y ago
  "Apologies" like Chris Sacca's [0] don't make you too hopeful. Often I have committed as their first limited partner and encouraged them to use my name and participation to attract other investment. I’ve introduced them to my fund’s most loyal investors and made sure they have had the opportunity to make their case rather than get lost in an inbox. I’ve also connected them to our trusted service providers saving them the time and frustration I experienced when trying to get my first fund off the ground. Above all else, I’ve rolled up my sleeves and spent the time mentoring many of them in how to approach the business itself and how to navigate the inevitable challenges that arise. Yea, that's what VCs do? Just apologize and take a bit of time to rethink stuff, nobody's going to be reassured by lame platitudes. [0] https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca...
  • deegles 9y ago
    What would be enough to you?
    • geofft 9y ago
      It would be a good start if he came to this realization on his own, instead of right after being contacted by the New York Times going "Hey, we're going to publish a story about your sexual harassment, do you want to dispute this account".
      • sillysaurus3 9y ago
        People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes go back years, and sometimes a sudden traumatic event can snap someone out of the patterns of behavior they fell into. The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some way to do that?
        • obstinate 9y ago
• goatcurious 9y ago
  I remember coming across a 2011 article on similar behavior by a New York investor, where I could not figure out whether the writers were condoning the behavior, in an almost fawning tone, or highlighting a problem. http://observer.com/2011/11/charlie-odonnell-women-in-tech-dating-dealflow/ http://observer.com/2011/11/charlie-odonnell-women-in-tech-d... Just read it again, it is beyond cringeworthy.
  • erdle 9y ago
    He's now an investor in The Wing
• rokhayakebe 9y ago
  HN Women. I am a male and I am genuinely curious. Is the following SH or does the position of power the person holds make it SH or does the environment (workplace) make it SH. "“I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.”"
  • microcolonel 9y ago
    I'm not a woman, but I feel the line is a bit blurry depending on the scenario. If it's genuinely unclear what this person is coming to you for, then I think this is a reasonable message to send. If you're already half way through hiring somebody, then it's clearly inappropriate. Not propositioning people you're attracted to is a sure way to be alone in life; I tend to think it's fine as long as it doesn't interfere with your professional obligations.
  • novavex 9y ago
    A bit worrying that this is ambiguous, but I would say that it is largely because of the position of power. Like someone mentioned earlier, "hire" and "hit on" should never be in the same sentence. And as a common courtesy I believe people shouldn't be hitting on their co-workers in the workplace in the first place. That makes everyone uncomfortable.
    • rokhayakebe 9y ago
      But there is this https://www.popsugar.com/career/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-College-1002109 https://www.popsugar.com/career/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-...
• oh_sigh 9y ago
  There was a constant murmur(or was it a constant shouting) of hate crimes performed in the name of Trump shortly after the election, but almost all of them turned out to be hoax hate crimes perpetrated by the victims. I'm not saying that is the case with sexism in SV, which certainly exists - I am merely saying that people claiming something usually isn't enough proof alone that something is happening. Of course, you shouldn't treat them as liars automatically, but I don't think you should also just blindly accept what someone or multiple people say. It can be evidence towards a problem though.
  • venantius 9y ago
    I'm sorry, I've seen absolutely no evidence that "almost all of them" were hoax hate crimes and I don't think you're capable of producing credible proof to this effect.
    • oh_sigh 9y ago
      Sure I can, perhaps by column inches allotted to the story? The reason it is 'almost all of them', is because the most outrageous crimes garner the most attention, but at the same time are least likely to be actual hate crimes. For example, the historic black church firebombing in MS which happened days before the election...which turned out months later to have been done by a black member of that same church.
  • dang 9y ago
    Partisan political tangents definitely aren't going to help here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674213 and marked it off-topic.
    • oh_sigh 9y ago
      There was nothing partisan about my post - I wasn't taking any sides, but just pointing out that purported hate crimes were widely reported in the news, which many turned out to be perpetrated by the alleged victims. For example, the Greenville, MS historic black church which was burned down days before the election with "Vote Trump" graffitid on it - which turned out to have been perpetrated by a member of the same church. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fire.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fir... But I guess, if simply mentioning Trump makes something partisan, then yes, I brought in partisan politics.
• tuna-piano 9y ago
  Wow, this seems terrible. For these women (and from the sounds of it, many more) to always have to second guess if an investor likes them for good business reasons or whether it's just because they're pretty. To always dread meeting a new business contact, knowing there's a small but substantial chance he'll make some awkward comment. Some thoughts: 1. Is this more common in silicon valley than elsewhere? (I've never seen any remotely similar male->female sexual harassment in the non-valley places I've worked) 2. Is this more common among high-powered people than low-powered people (seems definitely so)? 3. There's definitely a double standard here. I once worked (in tech) with a good looking former male model. There were many very suggestive comments made to him and about him, and they made him feel obviously uncomfortable. Of course, the women making these comments did so pretty openly and with humor, as female->male is not really considered wrong for sexual harassment. 4. Obviously some of these remarks are worse than others. But many people do end up dating and marrying their coworkers (Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, Phil Knight...). I think there is not a black-and-white line for suggestive comments to people you are connected with at work. The line is thick and grey, but wow do some of these guys not have any self-awareness.
  • warcher 9y ago
    It's a lot to do with the culture of entrepreneurship-- to do this stuff well requires taking a lot of risks without a lot of oversight. You can become fantastically successful doing it too, which comes with a whole host of other psychological dangers. And there is an obvious power imbalance at play. AND most critically, it's a culture that is very relationship based, where you don't want to burn bridges. It's not at all clear that the women that came forward, even now, are going to come out of it unscathed. Nobody's gonna come out against them now, but if they want to raise another round next year, who's gonna pick up the phone? I hope it isn't an issue, but if it were, there's no telling why your round didn't clear.
  • tuna-piano 9y ago
    I just want to elaborate on point #4. I chose those examples purposefully: Those three are all well-known business leaders who have dated or married their subordinates. Presumably, there was a point where Gates/Brin/Knight initiated or suggested to initiate romantic involvement. If as it turns out the woman had not been interested, in retrospect, would the methods of initiation seem like sexual harassment? I believe it's very likely they might. Again, there are clearly methods that are right and clearly some that are wrong. But I have a feeling the large grey area can be considered harassment if a woman turns out not to be interested, and adoringly recalled in a heart-warming wedding toast if they end up getting married.
• deleted 9y ago
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• bdamm 9y ago
  I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterwards. But that can be persistent, and for the woman, must be kind of creepy feeling. I'd love for this to not be the case, but after years of it, I'm at a loss as to how a man changes this somewhat foundational part of the brain. The women for whom I don't have that thought almost always follow remarkably strict professional conduct to a T. The equivalent for a man would be top-button done up and formal slacks every day, never smiling. I actually really like working with these women because it's kind of a relief.
  • deleted 9y ago
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  • pnw_hazor 9y ago
    Does the red-light blink around your sister or Mom? Put your female colleagues in the sister compartment of your brain.
    • bdamm 9y ago
      Maybe this is easier if you've had a sister. I never did. And I can't sit across the table from a skin-flashing admin assistant and think of her like my mom, who is in her 70s. It doesn't work.
      • passive 9y ago
        The fact that you use the term "skin-flashing" here is a little concerning. Perhaps it was just meant as a shorthand for attractive woman, because otherwise you've taken a woman's choice of dress and behaviour and made them part of your neurosis. Unless of course she is giving you the Basic Instinct treatment (is that too old a reference for this site?), in which case I'm entirely out of advice for you.
• zebraflask 9y ago
  I would find it highly ironic if start up culture ends up adopting some variation of the "Mike Pence Rule" (which he got from Billy Graham) as a result of these incidents. Some of the comments sound like they suggesting similar things.
• xor1 9y ago
  What are your thoughts on women with borderline personality disorder abusing an environment in which the burden of proof is placed entirely on the defendant?
  • zzalpha 9y ago
    I think building a policy based on the possible existence of a vanishingly small group of bad actors is a great way to make excuses for avoiding solving real problems...
    • xor1 9y ago
      https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/borderline-personality-disorder.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/border... I don't consider 1.6% among the general population to be "vanishingly small". That's easily approaching and I think even exceeding 1/100 when you factor for women only, since the majority of BPD diagnoses are for women. This isn't really insignificant when you think about how many people you will run into during a typical career. This also doesn't account for the large number of people who remain undiagnosed despite exhibiting significant traits. One of the primary traits of any personality disorder is the belief that there's nothing actually wrong with the symptoms and convincing oneself that they're beneficial. Getting treatment would mean admitting that there's something wrong with you and working towards fixing those issues. People with personality disorders prefer to change their environments to accommodate them instead of vice versa. It only takes one of them to do devastating damage to a person, or even an entire company if the right person is targeted. I also have nothing but my own anecdotal experiences for this, but I really think something about tech attracts people with traits associated with personality disorders at a higher rate than what's exhibited in the general population.
      • fasquoika 9y ago
        Why do you seem to be under the impression that BPD is a good proxy for whether someone will make false accusations of sexual harassment?
• pfarnsworth 9y ago
  Good. Hopefully this change sweeps across all occupations are areas of the US and abroad.
• microcolonel 9y ago
  PSA: If you are an honest man who manages or works with women in any capacity, please keep complete audio records of your time at work. File storage is cheap, a false charge will cost you your livelihood and damage the reputation of your entire industry. If you live in a jurisdiction which requires more than one present party to consent to recording, run for your life. P.S. not at all insinuating that the accusations here are necessarily false.
  • josephpmay 9y ago
    This is illegal in many states
    • microcolonel 9y ago
      Just realized it's illegal in California, what a sorry and oppressive place California is. Most of the wonders in California appear to be natural, and stand in spite of human intervention rather than because of it.
      • linkregister 9y ago
        Yeah it was the naturally occurring silicon deposits that got SV started. Film reel trees are the natural resource that got Los Angeles to be the entertainment capital. Excellent sun coverage with access to ample water from snowpack helped the Central Valley dominate the nut industry... Well that is true!
      • tnzn 9y ago
        Found the right-wing libertarian.
• deleted 9y ago
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• smmsnsks 9y ago
  Avoiding this situation is why I never meet women 1:1 outside of conference rooms, yet Mike Pence was roundly mocked for doing this.
  • gizmo 9y ago
    Regardless of intent, this contributes to the problem. A lot of mentoring and networking happens on a 1:1 basis, and if men refuse to meet women 1:1 in situations where they would meet with other men, then women will lose out on career opportunities.
    • smmsnsks 9y ago
      The risks are too great for me to make that my problem. If a woman wants a meeting with me, I'm happy to make time for her, it just has to be during the daytime.
      • Tasboo 9y ago
        This is your problem. You are essentially ensuring a woman will never receive the same respect or treatment from you as you do with men. This is on you to fix. Stop avoiding it.
    • sokoloff 9y ago
      This. In taking a new role several years ago, I had selected a woman to be part of my new leadership team. I was counseled by a peer (of sorts) to never take a closed-door 1:1 meeting with her; that it was simply too risky. How the hell am I supposed to run a department without ever having a closed-door 1:1 meeting with 1/4 of my leadership team? I ignored the warning and things of course played out just fine, but it did give me some pause that people would think that simply having a meeting would be too risky to consider.
      • likelynew 9y ago
        I also think the same way. In my experience, most single guys can be divided into two categories, ones who have predatory attitudes for girls or the ones who has fear talking to females. Both are actually bad for the girls.
• DrNuke 9y ago
  Douchebags are always one too many but Silicon Valley, like every other human environment based on ambition and greed, is surely not the safest / shiniest congregation on planet Earth?
• refurb 9y ago
  For everyone who is wondering why these people act the way they do, the answer is that their actions work some of the time. Otherwise, why would they do it if they continually strike out? What one person might see as harassment, another might see as an exciting "chase". I've known women who have had guys be very aggressive (it's a fine line) and they were quite taken by it. This of course is not excusing the behavior whatsoever. If you lack the social skills to see when you've crossed the line, the best approach is avoid the behavior all together.
  • stale2002 9y ago
    True. Pickup artists are pickup artists for a reason. It turns out that some people really are susceptible to manipulation. It wouldn't be called manipulation if it didn't work.
  • johncolanduoni 9y ago
    I don't think this is true in general. When people have a deeply ingrained notion of How X is Supposed to Work behavior can persist through a massive amount of evidence as to its ineffectiveness. Also just because you realize something isn't working doesn't mean you know what you need to alter to get something more effective. A lot of people who fall into the aggressive PUA-adjacent universe respond to their tactics not working by thinking "must have not been aggressive enough".
  • kelukelugames 9y ago
    >Otherwise, why would they do it if they continually strike out? lol, I know lots of guys who strike out every time. I suspect they repeat behavior because they don't know any better and it's low effort and low risk.
  • chasing 9y ago
    > For everyone who is wondering why these people act the way they do, the answer is that their actions work some of the time. Otherwise, why would they do it if they continually strike out? Eehhhh... I don't buy that. I think some guys just literally have no real idea to create romantic relationships. The best they can come up with is trying to leverage their financial power with shitty pick-up lines.
• notacoward 9y ago
  News flash: finance guys have predatory attitudes toward women. OK, not news at all. VC is part of the finance industry. No, it's not "disruptive" or in opposition to that industry in any way. Just look at who's putting all that money in before it's doled back out to entrepreneurs. Look at who has the power to force someone like McClure out. Yep, just a differently decorated branch office of Wall Street. VC partners hew to the norms of their own industry, not the industries they invest in. The finance industry is a notorious bastion of the old boys' club preying on everyone else, with much of the dirty work done by hyper-aggressive young bloods vying to be among the very few elevated into the inner circle as its older members die off. Of course VCs behave this way, just like TV/movie producers and all the other specialized branches of the finance industry. How could anyone have expected or believed otherwise?
  • hkmurakami 9y ago
    McClure is a marketing guy. Yes, VC is a niche area of PE. But you don't overwrite 20 years of cultural influence from your main profession just like that.
  • erikb 9y ago
    "toward women"? Toward anybody including each other.
  • draw_down 9y ago
    The point isn't that it's breaking news and nobody knew this before now. Come on.
• tuna-piano 9y ago
  This type of behavior also takes place in the White House. For those who haven't seen the current president's recent interaction with an Irish reporter, it made me say "yuck" out loud. I really feel bad for people, like this reporter, who may feel like they are valued more for their looks than their skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8wLx4WYbX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8wLx4WYbX4
  • deleted 9y ago
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• tiredwired 9y ago
  Harassment goes both ways. I have worked in Silicon Valley for 8 years. I have heard women managers and even a CEO say and do inappropriate things. Not only did the woman CEO say horrible things about her employees, she was also a bad CEO.
  • home_boi 9y ago
    Unfortunately, female offenders receive less attention and appropriate punishment for their actions.
  • nailer 9y ago
    I've watched a COO of NYSE listed company on stage at company meeting describe something bad as 'gay' with 0 repercussions
• sethbannon 9y ago
  It takes such incredible bravery to call out this kind of behavior in a palce that can feel too much like an old boys club. I'm in awe of these women. From Susan Fowler to Niniane Wang to Leiti Hsu & Susan Ho to the ones in this article. I don't know any of them but they are the catalysts of progress. It's up to all of us to make sure this is a turning point for an industry that needs to do so much better.
• Software_Sucks 9y ago
  Muh feminism.
• jackcn 9y ago
  Marissa Mayer?
  • dang 9y ago
    We've banned this account for trolling. If you don't want to be banned on HN, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and promise to follow the rules in the future. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674763 and marked it off-topic.
    • jackcn 9y ago
      Scratch one for freedom of speech - many people consider her to be an objectively poor CEO: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemyatt/2015/11/20/marissa-mayer-case-study-in-poor-leadership/#55e80d113b46 https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemyatt/2015/11/20/marissa-ma... https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/01/10/marissa-mayer-failure/96395518/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/01/10/marissa-... http://www.growthbusiness.co.uk/the-worst-ceos-in-corporate-history-2540261/ http://www.growthbusiness.co.uk/the-worst-ceos-in-corporate-... I suggest you get off your high horse.
• likelynew 9y ago
  I don't know if it is appropriate to say, but I think overt preference in hiring females is one of the biggest cause. Almost every tech company hire women with less qualifications to improve the the diversity. I know it is for the best, but in personal experience, it is very spoken thing between some males. Few interpret inside their head that the females are for them. I think it is evident even in snippets of this article: "I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you." It kind of means that she is not qualified to be hired, according to him, but.. I don't know, it is a complex relationship.
  • matt4077 9y ago
    > I don't know if it is appropriate to say, don't. don't don't. > but I think overt preference in hiring females is one of the biggest cause. nope. inappropriate. > Almost every tech company hire women with less qualifications to improve the the diversity. Wrong Wrong Wrong > I know it is for the best, but in personal experience, it is very spoken thing between some males. It isn't. >"I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you." It kind of means that she is not qualified to be hired... No it fucking doesn't. It only means the guy doing the hiring wasn't qualified to be hired.
    • bt4u2 9y ago
      Why are comments like this allowed? Putting fingers in your ears and scream "no!!!" over and over is not very useful or constructive
      • hanspeter 9y ago
        Some statements are so fundamentally wrong, this is really the only way to respond.
        • bt4u2 9y ago
          Nope nope nope
      • 9y ago
• edwinyzh 9y ago
  Visiting the page I'm getting this error: Invalid URL The requested URL "http://%5bNo%20Host%5d/2017/06/30/technology/women-entrepreneurs-speak-out-sexual-harassment.html?" http://%5bNo%20Host%5d/2017/06/30/technology/women-entrepren..., is invalid. Reference #9.360e4cdb.1498896362.1047f8d
• fjfkdjfjfjd 9y ago
  This is a little off-topic so mods, please flag/move as needed. (Wasn't sure if I should make this an Ask HN or not). I feel I may be a victim of a false accusation of sexual harassment. I am really not sure how to proceed at this point. I have not put up a fight for fear that I could loose my job (which may already be in the works at this point). Management has not used the term "sexual harassment", only the verbiage that "I have made a female employee feel uncomfortable". As I am currently in a temporary internship position due to end in a few months, I am not so concerned about this job, but this experience has made me very concerned about being falsely accused in the future of sexual harassment or rape. Should I just avoid all interaction with women at work completely? How would I do this with a female boss? (refusing to meet with her in private?) Any advice is welcome.
  • peteretep 9y ago
    Take legal advice, not HN advice.
    • fjfkdjfjfjd 9y ago
      Good idea! Thank you! Being this is an internship ending in a few months, I feel it might not be worth it, but definitely in the future, when a permanent position or clean criminal history may be at stake, I think a legal consultation would be appropriate. I just wonder, is there anything I can do to reduce such risk other than just being extremely cautious when speaking to women?
  • fjfkdjfjfjd 9y ago
    I posted this to Ask HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=14676115 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=14676115 Feel free to comment there. Sorry for the not-so-related spam on this original post.
  • ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
    Do you know what comments made that woman uncomfortable? If not, have you asked management? Maybe it's not a false accusation at all (in fact they don't use the term sexual harassment, which is important), but a valuable lesson for your future, and for you in general.
• RangerScience 9y ago
  As a man, I really value these clear, blunt accounts. It's like a bug report with details - here's what I need to know to identify the problem, and begin addressing it.
• worldofeunuchs 9y ago
  So how many VC millions were thrown away just because the founders were cute women with bad ideas? do we have any statistics? If not how would you compute that number?
• worldofeunuchs 9y ago
  Why I never read of men sexually harassed by a woman? Isn’t that suspicious that something is not right?
  • danblick 9y ago
    Your comment reminds me of reading something, I think maybe from Judith Donath, about how throw-away accounts tend to be bad for online communities. Something like ~ https://www.wired.com/2014/04/why-we-need-online-alter-egos-now-more-than-ever/ https://www.wired.com/2014/04/why-we-need-online-alter-egos-...
    • worldofeunuchs 9y ago
      thanks for the sidetrack link. I am eager to read your comment on my question.
• nashashmi 9y ago
  Isn't there an inherent culture among men that dates all the way back to middle school, high school, and college that somewhat sets the tone for inappropriate behavior later in life? These kinds of behaviours happen a lot and begin at a very young age. And they seem to be okayed by nearly everyone then. Why don't these things stop before they begin? I almost feel sorry for the men in these stories because the rules seem to have changed on them at some point and nobody told them when. Let's be clear! These actions are not ok in any work setting at any work level in any industry in any situation of diversity or lack thereof. Further, these actions are not ok in college, in high school, or middle school and in any area of education. Today the focus is on the investment industry, but it happens everywhere, from the bar to restaurants to company meetings. And these articles need to do generalize the environment beyond startup valley. Everyone should be put on alert. Even bystanders.
  • djhworld 9y ago
    You can't tarnish all men with the same brush though. Not all men exhibit this behaviour.
    • tnzn 9y ago
      You forgot the hashtag, mate. #notallmen.
  • 2017throw 9y ago
    The problem is that the rules are not written. Polite guys don't get laid.
  • gkya 9y ago
    I believe it's the changing culture that causes these problems in general. The rules and the culture are changing, and the pace at which different people adopt the changes and adapt to the new society is different. Unfortunately it doesn't happen in an instant, and culture gaps between people cause this sort of awkward situations where communications fail. Many traditions and social situations need adapting, like meeting new people, dating, workplace, family, friendship, all the stuff that involves genders, and it'll only happen in time.it's not that far back in time that women had to fight for suffrage.
• rargulati 9y ago
  Here we are, a moment where history changes, but human nature doesn't. It is true: these women are brave and correct in action. The men failed in their professional responsibilities. Silicon Valley has the advantage of being the keeper of a market where the individuals in the labor pool have greater rights than their counterparts in Hollywood and Wall Street (where similar ongoings are typically kept hush-hush). Yet what will be the outcome? Will the men with money now be afraid to take a professional meeting with a woman for fear of their own desires OR for fear that something negative will come of it? If the risk of a meeting may now include the risk of a lawsuit / losing your position and reputation, the calculus doesn't work out. This could lead to a strange dystopian outcome: segregated funnels. Women VCs / Male VCs - some overlap may occur, but most end up meeting with their own gender. Or not. Just a thought experiment on incentives and outcomes. Most likely we'll go back to regularly scheduled programming in a few months time. Some folks get kicked out, and a new batch will be there to replace 'em.
• mirimir 9y ago
  Yes, this is it, I think. I knew this guy, many years ago, who bragged about walking up to random women, and asking if they'd like to have sex. He said that he got slapped a lot, but also had lots of sex. I think that he was just BSing, but who knows?
  • qb45 9y ago
    Nowadays it's called "daygame". Controversial topic because on one hand you have many "hobbyists" who are serious about it and optimize for success and avoiding getting slapped, on the other hand you have losers (real story) who touch strangers on the street thinking it will get them laid.
  • jimnotgym 9y ago
    I don't see the relevance. Asking a random stranger for sex is certainly outside of our normal social conventions, but this is not the same as using your power and position to coerce someone into having sex with you.
    • mirimir 9y ago
      I consider them both to be sociopathic. Asking random women for sex is arguably also coercive. Edit: I note that smart robbers and rapists scope potential victims by making innocent requests. Then escalating.
      • naasking 9y ago
        > Asking random women for sex is arguably also coercive. Asking is coercion now? I'd like to hear that argument.
        • mirimir 9y ago
          "That's a damn fine coat you're wearing ..." ;)
          • 9y ago
• tawayyy 9y ago
  One thing that always makes me very sad is to see women working nearby top males in a company to look nowhere like normal women, but more like top models. Sometimes this happens just because a very beautiful woman is also very smart, but given the frequency of this thing I bet that there are cases of a conscious bias to select hot women. Now if you hire on purpose beautiful women that's a pretty good recipe for disasters.
  • deleted 9y ago
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• glasz 9y ago
  when they put "flirtitious messages", general compliments, and other forever-used ways to approach a woman in the same bucket as sexual harrasment _something_ is very wrong with those people. i will say these women in that article are pretty. there, i said it. count me in. "feminism" is morphing into some fringe cult which brings together few and divides many. talking of imbalance... sick. very sick.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• tomcam 9y ago
  Have things become worse or is Seattle different? I saw none of this behavior during my tenure at Microsoft (1996-2000). Admittedly I am a dude, though a lifelong feminist.
  • matt4077 9y ago
    There was an interview with Sara Lacy(sp?) from Pando where she says that it changed when the founder demographic changed. Before, it was either nerds, or older, experienced people from Intel, Cisco etc. Now, the "bros" are starting companies. She credits The Social Network with being a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• idibidiart 9y ago
  If this is what happens in Silicon Valley, I wonder what happens in Wall St firms.
  • eugeneionesco 9y ago
    ...men on WS go after models not nerdy looking chicks interested in math and finance? :)
• gus1h 9y ago
  They are all mindlessly ambitious dicks. That includes the women. These stories are just resume building tools.
  • acjohnson55 9y ago
    Do you think it's enjoyable to be in the public eye for telling on someone? Surely you're aware that people who blow the whistle are often blackballed.
  • dang 9y ago
    We've banned this account and detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674437 and marked it off-topic.
• snikolic 9y ago
  Made me think of this NYT article from 2010 which mentions the fundraising experience of a female CEO/Founder. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/technology/18women.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/technology/18women.html Some gross anecdotes about Bay Area VCs showing naked pictures of themselves, asking about her husband's sexual performance, etc. (For the record, the company she was trying to fund has been quite successful.)
• fuckoff 9y ago
  You must be told to fuck off a lot
  • dang 9y ago
    We banned this account and detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674909 and marked it off-topic.
• bt4u 9y ago
  You don't stop. Not if you want the girl. Movies, friends and family have taught us otherwise. You have to fight for the girl, right? And it works! You know, I have a friend who, when she goes out, she always tell the guys she has a boyfriend. She doesn't really. She just wants to weed out the weak men not willing to fight for her. This is not some stupid bimbo either, she has a PhD. And she's not the only one of my female friends who are like that either.
  • linkregister 9y ago
    This sarcasm is very close to sounding earnest. I'm not even sure it's sarcasm.
    • obmelvin 9y ago
      He/she's definitely not being sarcastic, but I don't think the GP agrees
  • dang 9y ago
    Single-purpose accounts (which this one appears to be, given its history) are not allowed here, especially not for an ideological agenda about a divisive topic. We have therefore banned this account. If you don't want to be banned on HN, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you want to use the site as intended, i.e. for intellectual curiosity, not political battle. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674705 and marked it off-topic.
    • bt4u 9y ago
      Nice joke
  • rhcom2 9y ago
    I certainly agree pop culture teaches men the chase but I've never known any who does that. What does your friend tell them after they begin their relationship and the other person thinks it's an affair? Does she then break up with her imaginary boyfriend?
• 6stringmerc 9y ago
  I've worked with a predominately Woman staffed workforce for most of my professional career. This whole charade of sexism can go fuck itself until the ageism issue of Baby Boomers riding out their job past their expiration date to go collect their pension. It's not a gender issue. It's a getting fucked over as an employee issue. Maddox at XMission had it right that anytime somebody is willing to do a job for less money, whether illegal immigrant or for whatever reason, it's bad for us all. That was 20 fucking years ago. Show me where women in the workforce have actually increased benefits and salary and I'll shut my fucking trap about being the asshole who stands up in the middle of a meeting talking about how I'm doing 200% more work for 0% more money and then we can go from there. I'm seriously tired of this woe-is-me-I'm-a-prisoner-of-my-own-creation narrative. Why? Because I have a pre-existing condition. It has nothing to do with my gender, but if I'm not employable, then I'm fucked. Sure, I can sit around and play the blame game, but where does that get me? This is not an male-oriented screed, this is something that is endemic to the US workforce culture. I can speak to it, I can cut you down to size at any point it time. Just look at how I treated Aaron with his little pet-project of looking into insurance. Did I belittle him? Did I snipe at his humanity? NO. Did I basically laugh at him like a child who shows a parent a Play Dough sculpture of the Eiffel Tower? Yeah, I did, because I work in art. One thing people forget about ART AS BUSINESS is that ugly people belong on radio and beautiful people get in front of the camera. This isn't Sexist, because it cuts both ways. Do you look like John Hamm or Bruce Willis? How about Tidla Swinton or Michelle Rodriguez? Hollywood isn't sexist, it's just fucking shallow and superficial. I'm 100% behind women-based initiatives where there is money to back up the mouth. SV Women should invest in ART that helps tell the stories they want told. Make your statement and be willing to lose money on it. Christian films do it all the time. Why do I have this attitude? Because as a Male I have been the recipient of unwanted romantic advances and overtones in personal and professional spheres where I want my experiences to be respected. I have been sexually harassed by women and gay men in more than one job. Right now? I'm being emotionally abused in my current job by a woman. How can I protest? How can I not come off like an asshole for pointing such a thing out? There's no right answer, so go ahead and say it. Let the chips fall where they may. That's how I sleep well at night.
  • balls187 9y ago
• bouis2 9y ago
  Guys will do a lot for a woman they're interested in. If they make a move, it ruins the advantage of being a potential prospect and forces her to feign interest to protect her advantage or fold and risk offending the guy and/or go forward without the carrot of that maybe relationship. I think child-like women would interpret it as just unfair, but you can also see that they have a dual advantage-disadvantage that's more complex than simple oppression. You can get meetings more easily, but you have to rebuff guys who just show up to see you as opposed to coming out to invest or partner with you.
• peter94104 9y ago
  If you want to be taken seriously and you value your career more than attracting men, cut your hair short, no makeup, and wear a suit. if you come to my meeting dolled up, you either aren't serious or you're using it as an advantage. I don't hit on women I do business with. But I take them much more seriously when they come to me on the merits of their business. Only. This is business deal. Not a mixer. Like I said, I don't hit on women I do business with. But if you don't like guys who do, dress to signal that this is about money, not looking pretty.
  • 1024core 9y ago
    ... says the guy hiding behind an anonymous, throwaway account. If you really feel this way, please put your real name on it.
    • linkregister 9y ago
      What do you mean? It's Peter ;)
• tit_bounce 9y ago
  how much money for each boob? he's a billionaire, his wife doesn't even care because she knows he has a prenup. you know there is no blowjob waiting for you at the end of this thread right?
  • deleted 9y ago
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  • dang 9y ago
    We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675360 and marked it off-topic. Commenting like this will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.
• itengelhardt 9y ago
  > Lindsay Meyer, an entrepreneur in San Francisco, said Mr. Caldbeck put $25,000 of his own money into her fitness start-up in 2015. That gave Mr. Caldbeck reason to constantly text her; in those messages, reviewed by The Times, he asked if she was attracted to him and why she would rather be with her boyfriend than him. At times, he groped and kissed her, she said. Nice! Here's grade-A material for the 46. President of the United States of America /s edit: added /s because it apparently wasn't obvious to some out there. Further clarification: This is a sarcastic comment on the fact that the USA have a president who has publicly admitted to sexually harassing women. With that person at the helm of the nation, how can anyone be surprised by others behaving similarly?
• honestoHeminway 9y ago
  Clearly the valley has no problem with social isolated tech-types rising to power- and not advancing socially. Sorry, this is not just a moral problem- its the problem of a socially self isolating caste coming by rise to power back into human contact and then abusing it.
  • neilparikh 9y ago
    The people accused of harassment in this article are VCs, not "social isolated tech-types", so I don't think your statement is relevant at all.
• watwut 9y ago
  > a volunteer organization who went directly from "I don't think I can see a movie tonight" to "This situation is making me uncomfortable" with nothing in between. She tried to tell you gently in the way girls are taught to reject men while still being nice to them. If you reject dude other way, some tend to t get insulted anyway. You did not get it, so she informed you flat out about how she really think about the situation. You got angry :). Don't force us to walk super tight balancing act where being nice is too subtle, but telling it flat out is wrong and there are maybe two magical phrases (different for every guy) that are allowed. For one, not every girl has such super high social skills. For the other, there is no way to win in that situation.
  • manfredo 9y ago
    Communications that are subtle and ambiguous are highly likely to be misinterpreted, and it is not reasonable to assume that the recipient reached the intended conclusion. Depending on what the above poster meant by escalating to "This situation is making me uncomfortable" I may or may not agree with the above commenter's statement that the person being approached acted irrationally. If the person being approached followed up the ambiguous rejection with something along the lines of, "I don't want to go out with you, please do not approach me again" then that's a totally reasonable response; it's escalating from a soft "no" to a hard "no". If the person being approach said something to the effect of, "you're harassing me with repeated advances after a rejection" then I'd consider that behavior to be irrational. The person who approached communicated denial in a very ambiguous manner that could easily be interpreted as asking for an alternate time to go out. It isn't rational to call a co-worker a harasser for asking somebody out after giving an ambiguous denial. Granted, if they continued to make approaches after giving an unambiguous denial, like the one written in the 2nd paragraph, then by all means this is harassment.
    • watwut 9y ago
      I assumed literal "you are making me uncomfortable" - I think it is best to go with what parent wrote. The "you're harassing me with repeated advances after a rejection" does not sound how real people talk. I also think that saying whatever gets the person away is rational - through it might be rude in context. I mean, you assume that saying something insulting or exaggerated is irrational, but that is not how we judge rationality in other contexts. My experience was that when collegues started bullshit (not harrasment but they had many jokes about women targeted at me), being nuanced and nice and "rational" did not made situation better. Just longer while they had fun and I definitely did not. Answering in hostile rude way right away turned out to work much better - issue largely ceased to exist. I think that the expectation that women should be the nice one is what creates a lot of problems. It is teaching girls ineffective communication (which leaves them thinking only two options are HR or leave). People on the spectrum honestly don't get nice, people who test boundaries don't see nice as boundary and jerks find nice funny.
• gcatalfamo 9y ago
  Without defending anyone, My honest takeout by the whole sexual harassment threshold in the bay area or the US in general is that you could never end up together or even married with a colleague in that paranoid atmosphere. Which is exactly what I did where I live in Italy. Happily married and yes, after saying things to a colleague of mine that would have made me accused in the bay area.
• zobzu 9y ago
  Loads of unverifiable, anti-white racism piece of journalist as usual. I don't think this helps women that get harassed either since it dilutes everything into a bunch of terrible stuff. I personally just discard every racist article now.
  • likelynew 9y ago
    I think this needs to stop, at least for this article, in HN. If this is about discrimination/mansplaining, I would have supported you. But things written in this article is correct and is bad for not only females but for the organisation as well.
• pjwal 9y ago
  Let's use this opportunity to clean out the stink. Including the fact that https://www.linkedin.com/in/jsmarr/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jsmarr/ made Friendster (somewhat) popular by taking users registrations to hack into other user accounts. Register your email and password here: Now we will use your registration details on the major sites to scrape all the data we can. Huge violation that Joseph Smarr has never answered for.
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  • circadiam 9y ago
    lol why are you talking about this 10 years later? aren't there bigger atrocities...
• deleted 9y ago
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• gcatalfamo 9y ago
  As I was trying to say in the techcrunch submission, without defending the real assholes, my honest takeout by the whole sexual harassment threshold in the bay area or the US in general is that you could never end up together or even married with a colleague in that paranoid atmosphere. Which is exactly what I did where I live in Italy. Happily married and yes, after saying things to a colleague of mine that would have made me accused in the bay area.
• rini17 9y ago
  No one noticed the photos with rather pin-up poses?
• cavisne 9y ago
  Masterful spin from Chris Sacca https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca... I wonder if his non stop virtue signalling on twitter will get him out of this one
• austincheney 9y ago
  Yet another reason to NEVER move to silicon valley. PROS: * if you land a job at a Fortune 50 company you could end up making $300k after 5-6 years if you are a badass. These are all big ifs. * lots of sunshine * easier access to venture capital CONS: * high taxes * real estate is 10x inflated compared to most of the rest of the country * actually, everything costs more there. The valley also has the highest gasoline prices in the country. Even food is more expensive there. * the top employers have, in the past, colluded to illegally not hire each other's developers * illegal sexual harassment appears to be a cultural norm * housing shortages * weird local politics (social justice warriors are actually a thing there) --- In summary the valley looks like a great place for founders (if male) but horrid for employees.
• deleted 9y ago
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• lebanon_tn 9y ago
  > Lindsay Meyer, an entrepreneur in San Francisco, said Mr. Caldbeck put $25,000 of his own money into her fitness start-up in 2015. That gave Mr. Caldbeck reason to constantly text her; in those messages, reviewed by The Times, he asked if she was attracted to him and why she would rather be with her boyfriend than him. At times, he groped and kissed her, she said. > “I felt like I had to tolerate it because this is the cost of being a nonwhite female founder,” said Ms. Meyer, who is Asian-American. As abhorrent as Caldbeck's behavior was, what difference does being nonwhite make? It doesn't seem like white female founders don't get sexually harassed.
  • bduddhebd 9y ago
    In this particular case, Caldbeck was exclusively (and clumsily) harassing Asian women.
    • lebanon_tn 9y ago
      Despite this aspect of the case, framing it as a problem of being "nonwhite" implies that Caldbeck's harassment extended to black or hispanic women for example, which it did not.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • danyim 9y ago
    I believe Meyer was implying that while being a female founder is hard enough, her being a non-white minority makes it even more difficult due to racism.
• nhumrich 9y ago
  I always knew women had an unfair disadvantage in this industry. But I never realized it was this bad. This is a whole different level then I imagined, and makes me want to throw up. On behalf of my gender (im a male if that wasnt obvious from my lack of awareness) I would like to sincerely apologise. Women, please keep telling us these stories. Please have the strength to "go public" with this information. It helped me realize the severity of the situation, hopefully it will spread.
• bt4u2 9y ago
  This is silly. Don't reduce me to some risk averse weakling because I'm not willing to put my neck out for strangers for little to no reward. If you're like that, and you regularly go to Africa to help people, more power to you. I'm not. Most people are not.
  • sokoloff 9y ago
    > I'm not willing to put my neck out for strangers for little to no reward Part of my point is that is often exactly what is required of leaders.
    • bt4u2 9y ago
      No good leader is taking unnecessary risks. In fact, if you study history, taking unnecessary risks has been the downfall of many otherwise great leaders
      • sokoloff 9y ago
        IMO, everyone who has left a steady job to found a company has taken an unnecessary risk.
        • bt4u2 9y ago
          That's a very subjective definition of unnecessary risk. Clearly there are potential rewards (ev+ if you're into poker or ai) in starting your own company. Helping a stranger get promoted? At the risk of ending your career (a massive loss for most people)? With the only reward being feeling good for Doing The Right Thing (tm)? Not so much
          • sokoloff 9y ago
            > Clearly there are potential rewards (ev+ if you're into poker or ai) in starting your own company. That a risk is +EV does not make it a necessary risk.
• CSMastermind 9y ago
  I've known Marc Canter for almost two decades now. I've been to his house, out to dinner with him, in classes he's taught, and at startups he's been a part of. I have never once seen him hit on anyone. He's also not a particularly powerful person in silicon valley. He is very socially awkward, however. I'd, personally, like to see the proof before I condemn the man.
• ig1 9y ago
  I feel deeply uncomfortable on 500 Startups positions on this (https://500.co/making-changes-at-500/ https://500.co/making-changes-at-500/) for four reasons: 1) 500Startups considered these issues to be serious enough to remove McClure from his role but didn't publicly disclose this. This meant that he presumably could continue to meet female founders and other WIT while still appearing to be in a position of power. 2) A number of LPs in 500 have stated that they were not told this change had happened and the reasons why. This suggests that 500 were trying to keep this as quiet as possible. 3) McClure continued to represent 500Startups in his official role after his apparent removal. A few weeks ago he was deeply involved in the launch of 500Melbourne in Australia. 4) Eight days ago Tsai tweeted "Binary Capital's Justin Caldbeck accused of unwanted sexual advances towards female founders. Where's the outrage?" while at the same time being fully aware that 500Startups was not disclosing McClure's behaviour. 500 Startups has done good work in the past on diversity but this appears to extend beyond McClure and they need to adopt full disclosure and address what from the outside could look like an attempt to cover-up inappropriate behaviour.
  • erohead 9y ago
    How do you know that this didn't all go down in last 72 hours?
    • mdorazio 9y ago
      Because they say as much right in the second paragraph? "In recent months, we found out that my co-founder Dave McClure had inappropriate interactions with women in the tech community." "In recent months" is a hell of a lot longer than "In the last 72 hours."
  • solidsnack9000 9y ago
    Regarding (1), the disclosure could border on defamation. While "truth" is an affirmative defense to defamation, in this situation it would involve providing internal emails, texts (not necessarily internal), testimonials -- and verifying them.
  • lawnchair_larry 9y ago
• partycoder 9y ago
  Takes a lot of courage to do this. People that fight their employers can sometimes be seen a problematic during background checks and can be dismissed for BS reasons (or not providing a reason at all).
• louithethrid 9y ago
  I deeply, and with all moral conviction i can muster - detest people who have so much power they can abuse it, while i having no power and no chance to abuse it, at least get the chance to redocrate my inability and envy as moral outrage and principles. That is detestable. Very.
• notadoc 9y ago
  I wonder how ubiquitous this behavior is? And how often it applies to reversed gender and same-sex scenarios as well? Do general demographics play a role? In any given male or female dominated industry, is the less dominant gender more likely to experience harassment? Many people I know (both female and male) have been come onto in a work environment by someone they are not interested in, or experienced an inappropriate scenario or comment, or experienced unwanted flirting or propositions. I think most people simply don't talk about it outside of their friend or social group.
• naiveattack 9y ago
  Scroll down to the bottom comments for real personal anecdotes and experiences; and contrasting perspectives. The bottom comments are important to complete this discussion if you are willing to entertain different thoughts. I won't say more here, because I want people to actually be able to find this comment. Unlike the ones at the bottom. Cheers.
• james1071 9y ago
  This is what happens when people get rich quickly- lot's of them behave badly. It is hardly unique to men - there are plenty of rich bitches in female dominated indsutries. As for women being sexually harassed - that would stop immediately if they all shunned the rich guys. But, that's never going to happen, is it?
  • dang 9y ago
    It looks like your account has been abusing HN by using it primarily for ideological battle. We ban accounts that do that, so please stop; it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
• stefek99 9y ago
  About sexism - I think it's a problem of culture in general - it is not socially acceptable for a young lad to approach attractive lady and say "I'd like to mate with you". (it requires courage, game, pre-frame...) All these VCs and senior managers - they are in position of power - too bad their sexuality is so oppressed - they should get some training how to tactfully deal with it, how to tactfully approach potential partners and maybe introduce "get out of jail free card": 1) I know I'm in position of power 2) You know you are attractive 3) We both know it is inappropriate 4) But hey look, I like you, we could create a great team 5) Because I'm biased I won't be participating in the recruitment process 6) Your recruitment will be purely based on merit 7) If you want to date with me, that's great... 8) ...if not - I'll make sure my attitude won't affect you 9) And BTW I'm in a dating season now, so if you say "no" it's not big deal at all. That's 9 bullet points, you can add 10th just because: 10) I respect you, if you feel offended for any reason that's OK too (it's OK to be not OK). I act with the highest degree of honesty, transparency and integrity. If you decide to report to TechCrunch remember to get my name right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succ%C3%A8s_de_scandale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succ%C3%A8s_de_scandale - "there is no such thing as bad publicity"
  • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Too bad several of those things are impossible - "my attitude won't affect you" - "I won't be participating in the recruitment process" - "its not a big deal". Because emotion is involved, there will be fallout from a 'no' (or even a 'yes'). And because of #1, they can't just not participate. Somebody will ask their opinion, or even take their silence as an opinion. There's a very good reason people in a position of power are strictly not to 'date' folks that work for them, or apply to work for them.
    • stefek99 9y ago
      > And because of #1, they can't just not participate 1) I know I'm in position of power The moment the "get out of jail free card" is used, there are no further comments so that silence is not an opinion. > take their silence as an opinion We can improve the exact wording, we can iterate on that.