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Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)
- technotony 9y agoFascinating. I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a tech startup to replicate this network more generally. I could see the network connecting the sellers with the farmers directly, plus coordinating delivery of the veggies... it's an easier problem than ubereats delivery as you've got fewer nodes. Maybe you even skip the sellers entirely, which basically gets you to CSA boxes but those always felt expensive to me (I'm not sure why)
- Spooky23 9y agoDefinately. There are people operating these businesses locally and regionally. The problem is finding a endpoint who wants to buy it at wholesale. The problem is that like anything in corporate American business models, scaling up doesn't always scale. As groceries have consolidated, you need to focus everything on industrial agriculture to deliver a consistent product. So as a society, we do stupid things like growing lettuce in the desert and flying it across a continent while fertile land down the road goes fallow. But when you have 5,000 wal-marts to stock, it makes more sense to focus on a few big suppliers than a bunch of little ones. I purchased lettuce in February grown in upstate NY in the middle of winter -- for 50% less than stuff in the market. It's one of the massive inefficiencies that drives me nuts about the current American mutation of capitalism.
- throw9966 9y agoIn my opinion this model works & keeps prices low, there is nothing to disrupt here. Similar like the Indian Dabbawala network. The Dabbawala System: On-Time Delivery, Every Time http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=38410 http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=38410 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala
- pm90 9y agoIt works only as long as there are more Dabbawallas willing to do what they do. Once their kids (or grandkids) decide they can earn more/do other professions...who will deliver the lunch?
- bgun 9y agoInstacart (or some other middleman). Prices will go up as India develops. The same is happening in Chinatown; the children of these shopkeepers are not as willing to stand in line at the warehouse at 3am, nor many of the myriad other unsavory chores to which their parents were accustomed.
- throw9966 9y agoWhat I believe is as long as there is a demand for this service and there is profit to be made, there will be people willing to cater for it, either the children or someone else.
- throw9966 9y agoIt has been 125 years since this started and I dont see it stopping in the near future. And why do you think "their kids (or grandkids) will continue the same profession as their parents ?
- mncharity 9y agoUrban last-mile delivery robots. Eg, https://www.marble.io/ https://www.marble.io/ et al.
- JustAnotherPat 9y agotech is just another middleman looking to squeeze a billion+ dollars out of the industry, so I don't see how they'd be any different than Hunt's Point.
- rosser 9y agoIf the people running these shops are eschewing credit cards as part of their cost-cutting, what could possibly possess you to think that "disrupting" them with some other form of middle-man is going to play here?
- frandroid 9y ago> I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a tech startup to replicate this network more generally. The goal is not to compete with Chinatown grocers, but to move their model to other markets.
- jowiar 9y agoI've found CSAs to be ridiculously cheap -- Somewhere on the order of $20-$25/week for a big box of produce that is almost always more than I can figure out how to use during said week.
- ricardobeat 9y agoPicnic.nl is doing something like that, and they just closed the largest A round ever at $100m. Just-in-time delivery using fixed routes, small electric trucks and local produce. Can't wait for them to launch in Amsterdam.
- Chathamization 9y agoI've noticed that there's a pretty substantial network available to them (and not just food) on Weixin. It would be interesting to see a Western equivalent. From what I've seen, Weixin is a lot more useful a social network than something like Facebook (which seems to be more of a time waster).
- HillaryBriss 9y ago> CSA boxes ... always felt expensive to me Me too. The original article explains the cheap pricing in Chinatown markets with: Chinatown’s 80-plus produce markets are cheap because they are connected to a web of small farms and wholesalers that operate independently of the network supplying most mainstream supermarkets. But that also describes the way CSAs work. They source their produce directly from various independent farms, many owned and operated by individual families rather than large agri-corporations. But the prices I've seen CSAs charge are often higher than prices for the comparable items at WholeFoods. Prices definitely are not comparable to NYC Chinatown. So, is the original article really even correct about this?
- nkrisc 9y agoWhere does the tech come in? Just sounds like good, old-fashioned business to me.
- contingencies 9y agohttp://8-food.com/ http://8-food.com/ - already on it, but we are focused on prepared food as the output of the fresh ingredient logistics network instead of raw ingredients (higher margin, higher preparation efficiency, lower last mile transport overheads, lower spoilage).
- sotojuan 9y agoThe amount of secret networks and deals Chinese/Chinese Americans pull off is astounding. I don't mean that in a negative way, I'm mostly impressed (I live near Brooklyn's Chinatown).
- markplindsay 9y agoI wouldn't say it's "secret," it's just regular business conducted using a language most Americans can't read or understand. Probably even in dialects that most Chinese people can't speak.
- bcaulfield 9y agoIf the social technology in these networks is better (produces both cheaper, better quality product) then there is money to be made copying it/adopting it.
- sotojuan 9y agoI think the fruit thing isn't "secret", but my friend's families do a lot community-wide legal and financial gymnastics to pay as little tax as possible.
- panglott 9y agoAre they particularly secret, or just filtered through social networks?
- Chathamization 9y agoI don't think it's so much a "secret network" as it is a community network. A strong community network is absent for a lot of Americans, so it probably seems strange or secret when they come across one.
- batushka 9y agoAlthough for Chinese dollar is the King, they form deep communities to aid each other in trade and are loyal. One interesting example of strong communities - I have newer seen a Chinese beggar in Europe, but a lot from neighboring and other countries.
- elsherbini 9y ago(2016) previous discussion of the WSJ article mentioned in the text: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11981063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11981063
- applecrazy 9y agonon-paywalled article here: http://outline.com/rsHPec http://outline.com/rsHPec (not my website)
- elefanten 9y agoWhere does the food in these secret warehouse networks come from? Is it actually equivalent in quality and oversight to the "mainstream" farm networks?
- sotojuan 9y agoAnecdotal, but I've been buying cheap fruits and veggies from Chinese markets for years and I've never gotten sick once. They taste the same. I'm no food expert, though. The only negatives are that the markets are not pleasant places to be in and some don't take cards.
- Spooky23 9y agoMostly smaller producers. It's more profitable for them to sell to the smaller Chinese wholesalers, and its more cost effective to you because of fewer middlemen.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- xapata 9y agoThat's racist! Just kidding. I have the same concerns. In some groceries you can observe less than perfect practices. However, a friend who worked at a Michelin star restaurant told me those luxury spots are no better. Sometimes it's the fanciest places that have the worst practices, because they feel obligated to wipe down all surfaces to shine them. That towel they use goes everywhere.
- bjt 9y agoThis feels like the proverbial dollar left on the street that economists say should not exist, so I'm racking my brain trying to figure out what's stopping chains from replicating this. I wonder whether this alternate network is as scrupulous about source tracking and food safety regulations. Those costs could be driving up prices on the traditional retail side.
- SubiculumCode 9y agoMaybe its just because there isn't enough competition after corporate consolidation. For the most part I see the same brands and items in stores in Virginia as in stores in California...even in the organic food stores.
- paulddraper 9y ago> Markets also cut costs by eschewing extra technology and certain aesthetic choices—the Journal points out that shelves “are typically made of plywood and lined with newsprint,” prices are scrawled on cardboard instead of printed on stickers, and credit cards are not always accepted. Some people don't want to buy food with cardboard signs and cash. Hell, I've heard California even has people who are fans of convenience so much they will pay for other people to do the grocery shopping.
- throwaway2048 9y agoIts a conditioning thing, if thats how you had always bought vegetables it wouldn't be odd to you at all.
- ethbro 9y agoI may be showing my roots here, but I've never bought a cantaloupe off the back of a beat up farm truck that wasn't delicious.
- s0rce 9y agoI met people in London who also pay people to grocery shop for them. For most staples I'm pretty sure this could probably be cheaper then having a grocery store in SF, they could have a warehouse in Fremont.
- bcaulfield 9y agoCheaper and better? That defies efficient markets theory. I guess any sufficiently advanced social network is indistinguishable from magic.
- penpapersw 9y agoCould it be that they just don't have the cruft & boilerplate & inefficiencies that traditional retail has? Having been in several types of workforce, I've seen plenty of missed opportunities that continued indefinitely because of management incompetence, so I wouldn't doubt it if they're able to have high quality & cheap produce just by cutting out the middleman and by being competent.
- thesuitonym 9y agoCalling it management's incompetence is probably unfair, although certainly there is a lot of incompetence in the retail sector. I think it's more accurate to call it corporate inertia. It's easier to build such a network for a single stall on a busy street than it is for 500+ retail locations that all have to be exactly the same to keep the brand image.
- bcaulfield 9y agoOr perhaps management competence? If goal is to sell more product to more people for more money, then perhaps the traditional grocery store model is better. They're just optimizing for different things.
- makmanalp 9y agoAh yes, the efficient markets theory - never before debunked ;-) Jokes aside, the truth is that with the original definition, there are so many barriers to markets being efficient and behaving in that idealized way that in reality I think it's a unicorn that can't exist, or at least rare enough to take with a huge grain of salt. It's a simplified model of how things might work, and perhaps if you squint a little it does seem to work that way, but not when you look closer. People behave irrationally all the time, there are all sorts of factors and incentives, social, political, and game-theoretic, that prevent actors from operating in certain desirable ways. I think it's hilarious that Chinatown may have out-capitalisted the capitalists, and cut out many middlemen to deliver better product for cheaper. Sad that they probably won't get much recognition for it, perhaps only some lobbying to block it.
- matz1 9y agoAlso tax evasion and under the table worker.
- metaphorm 9y agothis rarely gets mentioned in these articles but it's extremely important. The Chinese food culture is substantially different than the Western food culture, and I don't just mean the items on the menu. Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. They have created a market that is efficient by eschewing the standards of sanitation that Western produce markets use. That's not to say that this is bad. Their food culture is fully adapted to it and it doesn't produce epidemics of food-borne illness in their community because they handle and cook food appropriately. The same approach wouldn't work if it was mostly Westerners buying the food though. A taste for raw baby kale salad makes this entire approach to food marketing non-viable.
- ithinkinstereo 9y ago> Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. That's not strictly true. There are plenty of classical Chinese dishes - many of them family type dishes - that are composed of raw vegetables. Also pickling is pretty big in Chinese cuisine, but I guess that's not "raw" in the technical sense. Lastly, Chinese people love raw seafood - sushi, oysters, etc.
- kkylin 9y agoAll this is true, but while we() used to shop regularly in Chinatown markets (back when we lived close to a Chinatown, anyway), we would not eat anything raw except for fruits. Any vegetables or meat to be eaten raw or undercooked, we would buy from an "American" market. () Chinese-American family.
- metaphorm 9y ago> Lastly, Chinese people love raw seafood - sushi, oysters, etc. Which Chinese people? There are approximately zero sushi restaurants in Manhattan Chinatown. There are a whole bunch of sushi restaurants in adjacent SoHo, which is filled with non-Chinese yuppies. anecdotal: took my Chinese co-worker to The Pokespot takeout for lunch and he immediately turned around and went somewhere else when he saw that the menu contained only raw fish.
- tmaly 9y agoI have always liked to shop at some of these places. I can find exotic stuff I need for a variety of Asian recipes that I cannot find elsewhere.
- bruceb 9y agoPaying non union, employees who might be working under the table as they are not authorised to work is part of it, same with some restruants. Many regular supermarkets pay a living wage.
- rb808 9y agoAgreed. I was surprised that many supermarket chains are union shops with good wages, paid time off and healthcare. Trouble is they're having trouble competing with non-union competitors and are closing down eg A&P. Chinatown I'd expect a lot of employees aren't even legal. > Grocery clerks with service of five years or more generally earn the maximum rate allowable under the contracts, between $18.71 and $19.80 per hour. http://work.chron.com/union-pay-journeyman-grocery-clerk-28112.html http://work.chron.com/union-pay-journeyman-grocery-clerk-281...
- rb808 9y agoA lot of Asian supermarkets have great fish at low prices. I'd like to think its because of informal network of small independent local producers but I suspect its illegally caught by sketchy fishing fleets. Can anyone put my mind at ease?
- Isamu 9y agoSee also cheap bulk spices at Indian markets. They are a goldmine for stuff that can be costly elsewhere, even if you are not interested in Indian cuisine. My theory is that, in addition to having the right connections for cheap import, their customer base probably demands a certain price point for bulk spices.
- jandrese 9y agoSpices are cheap in those markets only because people are used to the completely nonsensical markups you see in grocery stores. Those little jars of mustard seed that cost $12? That's almost entirely markup. McCormick is a total racket. For stuff like potatoes or beans it's really hard for me to care enough that I'm paying an extra $0.50 compared to the market down the street. Vegetables are cheap, unless someone slapped that organic sticker on it. It's just not worth the effort. But for spices I'll make the trip.
- dxbydt 9y agoHa! I figured out the reason even before I read the whole article... always a gratifying feeling. That said, there are tons of food hacks if you want to save 30-40% and have a strong stomach. Buy your cashews, cumin seeds, turmeric, groundnuts, papayas, guavas from the nearby Indian store - there's tons of them in CA. Most of these are sourced from Fiji, Philippines, India etc, whereas Safeway would source cumin from Oregon and charge $5 per ounce. You can literally get a whole pound of cumin for that price - but no, you don't get the "organic certification", or the bar code or the USDA assurance sticker or anything that lets you know where the cumin came from in case you get some food poisoning and want to lodge a complaint. The Indian store lady dips into a giant cumin bottle and pours out a pound of cumin and takes $5 cash and no sales tax ofcourse wink wink. So yeah, depends on your ethics and cash situation. Say you want a little pep in your walk and like some extra endurance - used to be ephedra was legal and you could pop into your Chevron foodmart and buy a pill. Now it's no longer legal, so you go to the Chinese store and get the strongest ephedra tea - free market ftw. Ofcourse if you brew something strong and land up in the hospital, the medic can't really help you since who knows where that tea came from and what else is in it. Literally no American supermarket can compete with an Indian store when it comes to say cashews. Your Target gives you two pounds of cashews for $15. The Indian store gives you two kgs... that's 4.4 pounds! Ofcourse it won't come in a nice airtight jar with feel-good marketing on why you must eat your servings of USDA nuts for optimum health - instead, it's going to be wrapped up in a cone made of newspaper. If you have a "tropical palate" and a strong stomach, you should definitely try some of these shady joints. It's a trip.
- Indy_Dh 9y ago> "and no sales tax ofcourse wink wink" Actually in CA, many groceries are not subject to sales tax, just FYI. I'm not sure where the distinction is drawn, but it seems like the less processed the food the less likely it will be taxed.
- rmxt 9y agoNot sure why this is downvoted. California, like many other jurisdictions, seems to make a distinction between groceries/"raw" foods, and "prepared foods" when it comes to sales taxes. Unprepared foods are generally exempt from sales tax, while store-prepared foods are not exempt. E.g. an unsliced bagel in NY is untaxed, but a sliced bagel can/must be taxed. Fruit and vegetables likely fall into the untaxed category. From Wikipedia: In grocery stores, unprepared food items are not taxed but vitamins and all other items are. Ready-to-eat hot foods, whether sold by supermarkets or other vendors, are taxed. Restaurant bills are taxed. As an exception, hot beverages and bakery items are tax-exempt if and only if they are for take-out and are not sold with any other hot food. If consumed on the seller's premises, such items are taxed like restaurant meals. All other food is exempt from sales tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_and_use_taxes_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_and_use_taxes_in_Califor...
- tn135 9y agoAs a fish loving Indian, I was totally surprised to see that in Capitalist America the choice of fish was absolutely pathetic. At American fish places you only get "shrimps" may be "large shrimps" and "small shrimps". Salmon, Bass, Red Snapper and just few handful of usual fish. My small village fish market offers at least 20 varieties of fish in India's coastal region. A proper fish market would offer at least 100. Then I entered 99Ranch and since then my respect of my eastern neighbours has gone up significantly. Not only they had Tiger prawns and King Mackerel, they actually understood the difference between Pampino and Pomphret.
- look_lookatme 9y agoFor whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the-great-fish-swap-how-america-is-downgrading-its-seafood-supply http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...
- gutnor 9y agoSame in the UK btw. The fish choice in the biggest supermarket is smaller than you would expect in local store in the middle of Spain, away from the coast. Same thing happens with meat. There is a huge reduction of variety, even at the local fishmonger/butcher, compared to continental Europe (I'm sure it is coming though) A limited choice is available all the time everywhere, but the variety is not anymore.
- pm90 9y agoOne thing this article doesn't assert too strongly is simply that many western supermarkets just don't have veggies that are quite common in other countries. e.g. Gherkins is quite common in India (fresh ones, not the pickled variety), tender young Okra (without the coarse threads that make it hard to chew) and something which is apparently called "Chinese Green Beans" but which is pretty commonly used in my native cuisine.
- vram22 9y ago>Gherkins is quite common in India (fresh ones, not the pickled variety), I've rarely seen fresh gherkins in India. Which cities do you mean? Pickled ones are available in shops though.
- pm90 9y agoMaybe gherkins may not have been the right English word for it. I was talking about Ivy Gourd [0], which is used in Konkan region/cuisine a lot. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccinia_grandis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccinia_grandis
- vram22 9y agoHad a look at the article. Not sure about the size, but if it is small, e.g. a few cm in length, I think it is what is called tundli or tendli. Common vegetable in India. Tasty too.
- vram22 9y agoJust did a search, and if this site is correct, tundli is indeed the ivy gourd: http://www.indian-cooking.info/Expert/Indian-To-English-Terms.htm http://www.indian-cooking.info/Expert/Indian-To-English-Term...
- sleepingeights 9y agoCapitalism in America means as close to monopolization and price gouging as much as possible. Even Silicon Valley is a very close approximation to a monopoly, sponsored by masses of delusional participants deluded into thinking they're accepted within the same ranks. The people in the US eat only two types of meat, a handful of types of vegetables and crops. Also the cost of fish in the US is very high because the US wants to shove dangerous USDA beef and chicken down their pallets. They allow these fast food restaurants and groceries to thrive and lie to their consumers and say it is "food" and a "meal" where it really is a slow acting poison. It can be a very dangerous place.
- metaphorm 9y agore: meat https://www.meatinstitute.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/47465/pid/47465 https://www.meatinstitute.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/47465/pid/... relevant numbers from linked page 25.8 billion pounds of beef 23.2 billion pounds of pork 5.8 billion pounds of turkey 286 million pounds of veal, lamb and mutton 38.4 billion pounds of chicken beef, chicken, and pork are all highly prevalent, but chicken is king. there are other meats produced as well but in much lower quantities. turkey is getting a lot more popular though.
- theparanoid 9y agoPork is almost as popular as beef. 50 years ago, beef was king. With meat the US has become poorer.
- jessaustin 9y ago...beef was king. That may have been true 50 years ago, but it wasn't true 80 years ago, and I have my doubts about before that. Unfortunately I haven't known too many people old enough to have been keen observers of eating habits a century ago...
- civilian 9y agoYou might get something out of this article: http://www.americanteeth.org/2015/06/21/why-i-m-a-capitalist-and-what-does-that-mean/ http://www.americanteeth.org/2015/06/21/why-i-m-a-capitalist... If "Capitalism in America means as close to monopolization and price gouging as possible." is your definition of capitalism, then you're off. (And I think that may be why you're being disagreed/downvoted on.) If you think that monopolization and price gouging is an emergent property of capitalism in America-- well, then, I wanna see some citations. My (radical, libertarian) view that a free market would only leads to monopolies when they're _market monopolies_-- meaning they've already providing the best service, and will continue to do so. The really damaging monopolies only ever come from government-granted powers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vw6uF2LdZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vw6uF2LdZw
- jtchang 9y agoI think another reason chinatown markets (and mexican mercados) are cheaper is also because they tend to buy up a wider grade selection of produce. When I walk traditional markets every tomato, onion, cucumber is roughly the same size and shape. In a Chinese market they often have a wide variety of sizes and shapes. This is way closer to what actually gets grown. Not every vegetable grows the same size and shape though you may think that going into a normal supermarket.
- gumby 9y agoThis resonates with HN article this week end talking about a lot of recent startups simply being centralizing rent seekers. The Saveur article shows that an "end to end" model can be cheaper, at least for a specific solution point (to whit: get it fresh, cook, don't worry so much about the cleanliness of the rind). While the centralized solution that serves most grocery stores costs more and promotes boring sameness. Sometimes I want that sameness, but as the economy, or the Internet architecture for that matter, centralizes around a few corporations you end up with a bland world.
- lacampbell 9y agoAmazing how they manage to stay so cheap while hiring people at at least minimum wage, with valid work contracts, while paying all relevant taxes and not having any ethnically discriminatory hiring practices. That's the real miracle.
- purity_resigns 9y agoDoes the article handle ethnically discriminatory hiring practices? Neither "Divers-" and "ethnic"show up in the article, and if it's like Boston's Chinatown, workers are overwhelmingly Chinese.
- lacampbell 9y agoPeople are often very naive about different cultures. In the west we're trained to view them as an interchangeable package of foods, languages, and perhaps dress. The differences are real and substantial, and fundamental assumptions about how the world works or ought to work are definitely not shared.
- koalaman 9y agoI took the poster you are replying to is being sarcastic. The Chinese community in NYC at least is notorious for tax avoidance.
- wyager 9y agoIn other words, ultra-small ultra-low-overhead businesses are good for consumers. Problem is, most places in America there's a certain baseline red tape cost that exceeds the budget of these types of operations. In an unrestrained market environment, people can make money by eating up little inefficiencies like a swarm of ants. When you make the baseline energy cost of existence too high (e.g. with onerous incorporation or registration or licensing requirements), you kill off all the ants. Now those small but myriad inefficiencies go unconsumed, and society loses.
- armenarmen 9y agoAnd the big businesses who are supposedly "anti regulation" back lobbyists who put those regulations in place, so that new competitors have a harder time entering the market
- peterwwillis 9y agoOff-topic: Is there a browser plugin that lets you vote on how annoying a site's ads are, so it can warn you before you go to the site? I have a feeling that kind of pressure could change the way ads are displayed, but without it we're going to keep getting our screens engulfed by an ad with no idea how to close it.
- SippinLean 9y agoI was interested in this article but accidentally closed it, the interstitial ad made me think I was on a completely different site. It was a full-page ad for "STITCH FIX", with it's own layout and, sigh, auto-playing video. Why would I ever click through that?!
- emodendroket 9y agoMaybe this is true in New York, but the produce at the local Chinese markets where I live is not particularly fresh and in some cases you can tell from the packaging that it was intended for sale at a different supermarket (I assume this indicates it wasn't fresh enough for the original place of sale because it always looks just short of rotten in these cases).
- sytelus 9y agoTLDR; Chinatown sources from local small producers and are able to get big discounts. They also reduce cost by skimping on things like good furniture, printed labels, credit cards etc and keep their margins to 10-12% over wholesale.
- f4rker 9y agoSkimping on things like paying taxes, health standards, hiring people outside the family network, etc.
- peteretep 9y ago> she always assumed the low prices > were a reflection of subpar produce Betting against Chinese love of food seems a poor choice
- erikb 9y agoThis doesn't seem logical at all. Big chains usually have the lowest price, because they can enforce unfair deals on logistics and producers. Most things you buy cheaper from the super market than from the factory. Why should it be different with vegetables? It's not like the garden is next to the Chinatown shop. Also Chinese people are not known for their empathy. They are usually fighters. If they run more efficient than another shop/chain they just conquer them. That they stay that small means they can't beat the big chains.
- tooltalk 9y agoI moved to lower Lower Eastside just a few blocks away from Chinatown two years ago. I can't really say the article is on the money. I was really excited when I moved here first and thought the grocery shopping would be the one of the pro's. While I don't cook home (so not much veggie), but I used to buy a lot of ready-to-eat fruits and snacks. Perhaps it's that particular supermarket I visit in Chinatown, but they cut corners and the quality is fairly low. I learned to never to buy anything packaged by the supermarket themselves. Perhaps, I should travel a bit further into Chinatown to enjoy the benefit of such supply network. But for now now, I go shop at the Whole Foods or Eastside Market for all my needs. I no longer want to mess with what I eat.
- empath75 9y agoI live in northern Virginia, and we have a lot of great Korean markets to shop at, and they're always slammed with people. It's rare that you go into the produce section and see less than two dozen people browsing. The local chain store might have 2 at any given time. And the prices and selection are incredible. The only downside is you have to do a little bit more picking to get ripe/fresh/good looking produce.
- theprop 9y ago280+ comments and no one has mentioned roughly how much cheaper Chinatown produce is relative to other NYC grocery stores (I didn't see it in the article either). Anyone care to say?
- schnevets 9y agoYour mileage may vary, but my NYC grocery routine involves a nearby no-frills supermarket (Key Foods) and a trip to a local Asian Grocer. There is usually a 40-60% discount in price at the Asian Grocer. Red Peppers costing $1/lb at the grocer; spinach is $2 for a much more generous bushel compared to the supermarket's offering; seasonal berries and other fruit tend to be unpredictable, but I have seen blackberries and raspberries at $1.50 for a container that would cost +$3.00 in the store. Obviously, NYC has a major markup on produce, but the cheap prices at Asian Grocers are not a regional thing. Growing up in the suburbs, my family always opted for the Asian-owned grocery store over A&P or other supermarkets. I think Aldi's may have a similar agreement with distributors.
- theprop 9y agoThanks!! Wow ~50% lower prices is A LOT when it comes to the highly competitive market for produce.
- Markoff 9y agothose sounds like prices of regular European supermarket,I was under impression that US supermarkets we supposed to be even cheaper than European these things are permanently in promotion rotating between various supermarkets: 1kg banana 1.1€, 1kg grapes 2-2.2€, bunch of fresh spinach 1.2-2€, etc
- rsynnott 9y agoFruit and vegetables seem to be weirdly expensive in the US, for some reason; meat and processed foods are much cheaper than they are in Western Europe, though. It makes sense that meat would be cheaper (considerably different and mostly lighter regulation on animal husbandry and slaughter, plus the whole corn subsidy thing) but the expensive vegetables never made sense to me.
- lightrocker 9y agoThis is seriously a no shit award. How long did it take to research?
- throwaway9283 9y agoIt's not just the Chinese though. In Seattle, Rising Sun produce in Ravenna is often better than say Uwajimaya and other stores down in Chinatown. That said, I found Chinatown to be the most interesting neighbourhood in Seattle :P
- mac01021 9y ago> Chinatown’s 80-plus produce markets are cheap because they are connected to a web of small farms and wholesalers that operate independently of the network supplying most mainstream supermarkets. I don't get it. Why can this web of small farms and wholesalers sell produce for less than normal suppliers can? If Chinatown's suppliers are so much cheaper, why don't the other supermarkets use them too? If Chinatown is consuming the entire output of these suppliers (explaining why the other supermarkets can't use the same source) then why don't the suppliers raise their prices? Even if some of the chinatown vendors could no longer afford the food, surely someone else would buy it. Do plywood shelves at a grocery really make a noticeable difference in food prices?