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Programmers are most likely to work from home
- douche 9y agoAny day I don't have to go to the office is a good day.
- draw_down 9y agoIt's not really a perk. It comes with its own set of problems, friends.
- HenryBemis 9y agoLack of focus, being taken advantage of and ending up working 10-12 hours instead of 8 and plenty more (lack of networking, etc.) If it works "for you" then it'a a great thing to have in your life WFH!! If not, then there is always the office.
- dsgriffin 9y agoNot really taken advantage of in my case, but it can sometimes feel like you need to "prove yourself" that little bit extra (maybe the guilt of not being seen?) and end up working longer due to that
- cuckcuckspruce 9y ago>lack of networking Not when I worked at home. When I was working at home, I could get done with work exactly at 5 and head over to the weekly meetings of local organizations (ACM, local LUG, the hackerspace in town, 2600 meetings sometimes) and network there much more than I could if I had to drive out to where they were from my office.
- zepolen 9y agoYour comment does not provide any value until you list the problems you have found.
- CydeWeys 9y agoSocial isolation is a huge issue for me. When I spend multiple consecutive days working from home I start to get mildly depressed. Going out at night after a day of working from home doesn't fix it. I think it has to do with what I'm used to from nearly two decades of schooling: socializing with and being in the company of many other people during the daylight hours of weekdays.
- adrian1973 9y agoA stipend so remote workers can rent a desk at a coworking space would help solve the socializing issue. It might sound crazy (or at least rare), but renting a desk at a coworking space is probably far less expensive than providing space and a desk and facilities at a company's own offices.
- CydeWeys 9y agoThat's definitely one solution, but at that point you're eliminating a lot of the benefits of working from home. If I'm going to be commuting to a coworking space anyway, why wouldn't I just commute to my actual office, and be physically colocated with my actual coworkers rather than random people? I should point out that my commute to work is only ten minutes one-way. I suspect that the coworking space idea only works for people that are located a long distance from the main office (potentially 1000s of kms), but have a coworking space nearby.
- mtberatwork 9y agoLack of face time can be a problem when it comes time for advancements. If you work for a company that is purely remote and software driven, this might not sound like a big deal, but if you work for a company that is: a) not 100% remote and b) not a pure software development company, the office crowd and non-tech higher ups start to wonder: a) who you are and b) what you do there.
- draw_down 9y agoGood thing this boat seats two.
- HenryBemis 9y agoNot only for devs. I was working for a mega-big US company doing audit/sec and 90% of the time I was working from home, and it was the best thing!
- xchaotic 9y agoThis is so obvious, but so few roles allow for that. I am below my market rate but happy and motivated, as I am 100% remote. Imagine if someone offered market rate, they'd still be ahead, without the need to pay for the office space.
- maxxxxx 9y agoIf I actually had an office and not some little box with neighbors talking the whole day I may be ok with going to an office. Working from home is my only chance to actually think without distractions.
- chrismealy 9y agoNever being on call is the ultimate perk.
- johan_larson 9y agoI've been working from home now for a year and a half, and I love it. It's really quiet, and no one interrupts me. The best possible arrangement would be a private office at work, but working at home is miles better than an open-plan office.
- HenryBemis 9y agoI find that when I'm coding, if I get stuck I take a break and go to my baby daughter and start talking to her about the problem (she's 4 months old so her skills are not that great). 3/4 times while talking to her I find workarounds. Her smile is the extra bonus!
- earleybird 9y agoAt 4 months old, her listening skills are awesome, which is what you need.
- BatFastard 9y agoIndeed it is the process of describing the problem verbally that helps me think about it in different ways. I would guess my mind takes shortcuts when thinking about it. However when I have to engage the speaking part of my brain, I can't take the shortcuts.
- kdamken 9y agoThis made me smile. It's like a cuter version of rubber duck debugging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging)
- eddieh 9y agoI like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?
- ooqr 9y agoThat, and the snacks I buy and put in my fridge are better than the free snacks at work. Also I can take a shower in the middle of the day. Which is the best time.
- midgetjones 9y ago> Also I can take a shower in the middle of the day. Which is the best time. I'm intrigued. Why is that the best time?
- nitelord 9y agoI work from home and a shower can be an incredibly helpful way to take a break from the computer and think about technical problems. I imagine it's a bit like meditation.. Being able to do this at the right time is key.
- InitialLastName 9y agoShowers can be a great "ideas that magically solve your problem" catalyst.
- ooqr 9y agoThat was really mostly the case in the cold of winter.
- eddieh 9y agoWe have showers at the office, but I can just as easily walk home and take a shower and then head back to work.
- cylinder 9y ago
- humbleMouse 9y agoThere is a dirty secret that nobody talks about and the real reason that companies want programmers in the office. Companies want their top performers in the office so they can serve as trainers/mentors/teachers to the new college kids and the incompetent older people they hire. I think this is the real reason companies crack down on working from home. It's infuriating as a top performer - I just want to get my assigned work done and leave it at that. I don't want to teach all your shitty college grads how to actually code. edit: I'm not against mentoring people and helping build teamwork, knowledge sharing, etc. I'm just saying that an all out ban on WFH makes me feel like I am sitting in an open office all day doing other people's assigned work. I actually am very social and enjoy teaching and helping people. I just wish it wasn't one extreme or the other - I can still mentor/knowledge share with tools like WebEx. edit2: I am a contractor who was recently banned from WFH. We used to have a very lax WFH policy and it was great. Now I'm banned from WFH completely. The article was discussing the merits of WFH policies, which I am commenting on.
- umanwizard 9y agoIf you really are a top performer, a big part of the justification for your high pay is because you multiply your impact by mentoring more junior employees.
- humbleMouse 9y agoI respectfully disagree. The justification for my high pay is because I integrate complex systems with shitty vendor web service api's and automate the transmission of sensitive data. The work I am doing has a huge impact on profitability of my company - much more than the joke of a 6 figure rate they are paying to keep me around. I avoid being a fulltime employee because I don't want to have some unwritten commitment/fake loyalty to the company I am working for. I am a contract employee - I am here to get the work done you assign me. If you ban me from WFH, it's an insult to my professionalism and work ethic.
- John23832 9y agoNobody wants your unwavering loyalty... mentorship is a part of any job. From bagging at your local grocery store, to the CEO of a Fortune 500. No offense, but it just sounds like you don't really like being around/interacting with people. Theres not necessarily anything wrong with that, but it's not really conducive to long term success... whether that success be in your job, or life in general.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- cliffy 9y agoI've had really good experiences working from home, and awful ones too. It usually comes down to having a distributed-first mindset among the team and management. The ideal would be to have an office with a super short commute when I need a change of scenery, but the option to work from home whenever I feel like it. The requirement to sit your rear in a specific chair at a specific time is pretty stupid when you can code anywhere you can carry your laptop.
- ryandrake 9y agoI'm more of a "cat herder" than programmer these days, and I probably would have great difficulty doing my job from home, or with others working from home. Face-to-face conversations and in-person meetings are tools that have their uses, just as E-mail and asynchronous chat, phone calls and video conferences are tools that have their uses. To me, the cost of tossing out those "in person" tools does not make up for the pleasure of eliminating my [2 hour each way] commute.
- k__ 9y agoGood to know that remote work prevents me from becoming a "cat herder"
- jaequery 9y agohow about them phone meetings? i really dreaded them made me almost hate wfh
- MadManE 9y agoIt's not that it's a phone meeting. It's that it's a pointless meeting.
- neverminder 9y agoAs someone who's stuck in open office torture chamber and dreaming about working remotely I can't help but notice an obvious trend - developers from poorer countries are "outbidding" those who are not in what seems to be just another race to the bottom. Unless of course you're a highly sought after specialist with experience in some narrow area, or you have good contacts.
- jonmb 9y agoI've worked both in offices and remotely. They each have their pros and cons. I prefer remote. The biggest pros of remote work for me are no commute + not needing to get dressed in business clothes every day. I don't have to fight traffic, I don't have to iron clothes every day, I don't have to find parking and spend 10 minutes walking to and from my car, etc. I don't have to do a whole bunch of little things that going into the office required. So the biggest advantage for me is saving time. And now I get to use all that extra time for spending more quality time with my wife and dog, side projects, exercise, video games, etc. I get more sleep! That's an important one. The downsides to working from home is that it is harder to communicate in some situations, especially if you're the only guy working from home. It is easier to be overlooked for promotions since people don't know your face and see it every day. You miss out on the social aspect of work, though this can be mitigated if you're able to drive/fly-in to see your team occasionally. You miss out on the office banter, though some people would consider that a good thing. Many other points people raise such as having lack of focus, being taken advantage of, and so on apply equally to being remote and working in the office (depending on the office) so I consider those to be moot points. If you can't focus at home, that's a fixable problem with your own mind and your environment.
- meritt 9y ago> I don't want to teach all your shitty college grads humbleMouse's profile: "Mid-Twenties" lol.
- irfansharif 9y ago> humbleMouse
- dasmoth 9y agohumbleMouse's profile: "Mid-Twenties" So? S/he could well have 10 years of relevant experience.
- always_good 9y agoHeh, your comment moved them to erase that from their profile.
- meritt 9y agowayback machine has us covered: https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20160614151608/https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=humbleMouse https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20160614151608/https://news... > "I setup that url myself." ha, and from that wayback link we see he owns a domain, which I can't even make this shit up: NumberOneProgrammer.com
- smokeyj 9y agoSome people in mid 20s have a decade of experience. Many fresh grads have never coded outside of completing their assignments. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this observation.. unless of course you're ageist ;)
- sctb 9y agoPlease don't personally attack other users like this, no matter what they've said. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14098242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14098242 and marked it off-topic.
- 9y ago
- ensiferum 9y agoI think I'd be utterly depressed if I worked from home. Every day without any human interaction. Plus I really love the clear boundary between work and home. Wouldn't want to pollute my home with work.
- douche 9y ago> Every day without any human interaction It's the best, I love it. Any human interaction you get is chosen, rather than imposed.
- 67726e 9y agoIt's going to vary person-to-person. I did it for two years, and it mentally destroyed me. Eventually I was spending every night out getting shitfaced drunk because I couldn't stand another moment alone at home. I work in an office now. I can work from home a day or two now and again, but it's 8.30 - 4.30 Monday thru Friday in the office for the most part. Don't assume working remote works for everyone simply because it does for you.
- ensiferum 9y agoYeah, well my current situation is that since I live alone in a new country with 0 friends the only interaction I have during the day (excluding shopping for food) is at the office. So I have to take both the bad and the good (i.e. the noise of the open office and the chance for some socialiazing)
- ryandrake 9y agoYea, this is the part that would kill me about work-from-home. I once had a job with a personal office and a close-able door. Staying in there was horrible--I felt like I was in solitary confinement. Ended up taking my laptop and working from the break room all day so I could at least see some people.
- Arizhel 9y agoThis is why lots of people like to work at coffee shops. You get to be around other people, but it's generally pretty quiet: there's no loud conversations about some stupid sports game the night before; any conversations are usually between two people sitting quietly together, not groups; the people there are total strangers and not coworkers or bosses so it's easy to tune them out mentally and concentrate. In addition, you can go buy yourself a tasty drink or snack and eat it (I can't easily make myself a chai latte at work). The lighting and ambiance are far, FAR more relaxing than any office I've been in.
- ahallock 9y agoI've invested thousands of dollars in my home setup (which will never be done), to create an amazing working environment. Why would I want to give that up? Sure, employers may give you a little $ to customize your desk and equipment, but if I'm going to be spending so much of my life at a computer, it'd better be amazing.
- CydeWeys 9y agoMy employer's work environment is worth much more to me per year than the entire cost of your home setup thanks to all of the free meals and the gym equipment alone. Just something worth thinking about.
- k__ 9y agoI don't know what bothers me more. People willingly selling their souls to companies or the companies that spend humongous amounts of money to keep their employees away from their homes and lifes...
- CydeWeys 9y agoWhy do you think I'm "selling my soul" just because I go into the office and eat the free food they provide? I work normal 40 hour weeks. I'm not being dragged away from my home and my life. You've got an overly cynical take on it. They're just nice perks that the company can provide cheaply at scale, e.g. I'd rather get three free meals per day than the $5,000 it costs my employer to make those meals per employee, because if I were buying those meals out it'd cost more than $5,000 per year.
- nommm-nommm 9y agoUsually when offices offer those perks it is to keep people at work and blur the line between work and home. It's not cynical to point that out. By offering really expensive perks they are filtering for people who value those perks over salary (because there really is no free lunch)
- gdulli 9y agoI'd be bored sitting at home all day instead of being around people, and then there's the more subtle ways my work is more effective when in-person contact with others happens by default rather than letting the temptation to do solitary work win out. If I chose a job with a bad commute or bad co-workers or bad working conditions I guess I'd be unhappy about going into the office. But it seems more logical to address the root cause than the symptom. Fundamentally wanting to be separate from other people doesn't seem like the most functional pattern to encourage. But I get it, the uninterrupted coding is the part of the job that's the most fun.
- ryanmarsh 9y ago"working from home" aka "actually getting work done"
- BeetleB 9y agoI work in a big company. It's easy to see all the useful things I would have missed out on if I worked remotely. Examples: - Networking: Serendipity plays a bigger role than anything else. And you get a lot less of it the fewer people you interact with. Simply bumping into people at the cafe is quite valuable. - Career coaching: Lots of classes, talks, invited speakers, etc. Some can be done remotely, but roughly half require you to be live. Also: Going to work makes it easier to leave work there when you come home.
- 01000001 9y agoTrue, but there are also a lot of benefits to working remote. I work full-time remote. Previously I worked full-time onsite. The onsite:remote benefits directly matches up to the work:life ratio. I get benefits to my life that onsiters don't get, and vice versa. It's a personal choice.
- jamestimmins 9y agoTo your first point, Richard Hamming's essay You and Your Research hits on this topic by distinguishing between people who work with their door open and people who work with their door closed. As he put it, the people who worked with the door closed got more work done in the short term, but in the long run had fewer serendipitous strokes of brilliance.
- brightball 9y agoAgree with that. It's more about the flexibility than anything else. Sometimes, I really need to work out of the house. Other times, I'd prefer to be in the office. A lot of it depends on what type of work you're doing. If there's a lot of cross communication...office is WAY better. If it's "slap on the headphones and go full code monkey" it doesn't really make a difference where you are.
- k__ 9y agoI'm much happier since I started working remote. I've never been the 9-5 office guy and my coworkers were always joking about me not being in office before 10. When I finally missed a promotion to head of development because the higher ups said it can't be the 10-o-clock guy, I left the company and with it employment in general. As a contractor I can work from wherever I want, get paid much more per month and can keep much more of it because of cheap private insurance and pension funds. I also can take as much holidays as I like. I see my family and friends more often AND get more exiting new projects.
- josho 9y agoThis thread has been eye opening. I had always assumed companies seeking remote employers were looking for cheap labor. Do you have any wisdom to share for someone looking to make the switch to remote?
- archeantus 9y agoI've been thinking a lot about this lately and I've decided that working remote IS the most important benefit of my job. I've been fully remote doing iOS development for nearly four years now, and I am not interested in entertaining any new job offer unless my fully remote status can be retained. Are there downsides to this mentality? Yes. Am I missing out on networking/schmoozing opportunities by being remote? Almost assuredly. But as I've been thinking about it lately, I don't think I want any of that stuff. I can't see myself enjoying the job of management or being a director, etc. I would probably enjoy the pay, but not the work. So for me the most important thing is that I love my job, I get paid very well, and I'm home to watch my five kids grow up. I don't think I'm interested in trading in that setup, not for any job title.
- jonmb 9y ago>> I'm home to watch my five kids grow up. << And when you're old and looking back on your life, this is what you're likely going to appreciate much more than being a director inside of an office's four walls. Good stuff.
- mouzogu 9y agoIt depends on the office and your personal circumstances. If I dread going to the office for whatever reason (uncomfortable, noisy, bad commute, dislike coworkers) then of course I'd rather work from home. I think this argument of WFH detracts somewhat from the issue of making the office itself a better place. There is so much that can be done in that area to alleviate some of the issues around not wanting staff to wfh. For me, the main issues are noise, lack of privacy and lack of environmental control. I get some of the same stress in my office that I would get standing in a busy highstreet during rush hour. I dislike open plan office, hot-desking etc - give me a space, I'm comfortable working and relaxing in - a second home almost. Or maybe I'm just a spoilt millenial.
- taternuts 9y agoI really think the best situation is a place that doesn't care all that much if you work from home, but you aren't technically a WFH employee. I used to be 100% remote and yes that had it's perks, but I think overall wasn't the best for me as someone who, left to their own devices, will likely sit out my couch at home all day every day. I actually enjoy going into the office for at least half the day and leave for home when I feel like it. Usually that's after breakfast and lunch from the cafeteria :) It's nice though, to have real life friends at the office. Especially when you move to a new place and don't really have your old friends around. I don't really feel any loneliness because of this. I still keep in contact with my remote friends, but you know... it's not quite the same.
- NumberSix 9y agoThe article does not discuss the impact of the open office movement. I've worked from home, in actual offices, in cubicles both cramped and spacious, and open offices. It can be quite difficult to focus at home due to various distractions, especially if you do not have a separate room or area for work. It is difficult to separate work and non-work with a home office. There are a variety of communications issues with colleagues when working from home. However, programming requires high levels of concentration and focus; I work on complex algorithms and mathematical software which requires extremely high levels of concentration and focus. Open offices are simply too noisy and full of interruptions. Thus, given a choice between an open office and home, home wins. But in general I would rather work in a quiet office near my colleagues. There is a clear separation between work and non-work. Communication is faster and easier, less prone to misunderstandings. This however means something like an actual office or a quiet spacious cubicle with high sound absorbent walls. In his book Deep Work, Cal Newport argues in favor of a "hub and spoke" office layout where knowledge workers can work in quiet in offices on the spokes, but meet and collaborate at hubs, such as common areas with food, coffee machines, printers etc. This seems like a much better way to balance the need for deep concentration on the one hand with "collaboration," annoying MBA buzz-word at present.
- geebee 9y agoThanks for posting. That was the first thing that jumped into my head as well. Many of us are choosing between working at home and working in a loud and noisy environment. If programmers generally worked in the environment you described, our answers might be very different.
- JamesBarney 9y agoThere was recently some evidence that open offices led to reduced collaboration because a real office means asking someone a question disturbs one instead of 20 people. So people end up asking less questions, and interacting with there co-workers less.
- geebee 9y agoI read about that as well. I also think that there are different work cultures based on what you have to do. Someone who works in sales may be on the phone quite often. Same for a lot of managers, tech support, people who do demos and presentations. The problem certainly isn't that they make noise, they need to! And because of the nature of their jobs, they tend to see hallway conversations and joking around to be beneficial, a way that information is shared around the office. The problem is when they are located with people who are trying to do focused work. It's frustrating. If my kid is having trouble focusing on his math homework, my first thought is to make sure he is free of distractions and can work in a quiet place. I don't tell him that he should wear headphones and listen to music while he struggles with learning algebra. At the same time, I don't think that math classrooms or discussion groups need to be quiet places, and I don't understand why some people think this is somehow a counter point to what I described above. Yet within the office context, it often is interpreted that way. And, broken record that I am, I'll skip back to the same old point: Tech companies have shouted themselves hoarse about the shortage of software developers. Yet they won't provide them with a quiet place to work or allow the working conditions that a majority of programmers say they would like. Why does governmen keep giving these employers a crutch? Sounds to me like a market solution would emerge, if we'd only allow it to.
- throwaway2016a 9y agoAnecdote but I'm sure other people feel the same: I get cabin fever working from home more than a few days a week. I need human interaction and video chat and Slack don't cut it. I found working from home I cooked a lot less (went out to eat instead just to get out of the house) and the days tended to blend together.
- dec0dedab0de 9y agoI've been working from home for a few years now, and I think the one thing I would miss the most is having my own private bathroom. If I'm ever in a position to design an office, the bathrooms will all be individual, or at least have stalls that go all the way down.
- edw519 9y agoAfter 38 years of commercial programming, 15 of them remote, here's the thing that almost no one talks about: working remotely actually benefits the company much more that the programmer. Here's why: 1. Profitability manufacturing something increases dramatically when lowering overhead and driving direct labor. Direct labor in software are the programmers. Time spent programming (usually) produces product. Time spent not programming flushes money down the toilet. I have never found a better way to increase the direct labor / overhead ratio than by working remotely. 2. Proper process building software can give geometric increases in value. Things like business requirements, technical specifications, test plans, UAT, QA, project management, etc. When programmers are in the office, it's just too easy for managers and analysts to "wave their hands" and "call a meeting". Too often, that's their answer to everything. The meetings rarely serve their (ususally undefined) purpose. They give the appearance of progress without the progress. Problem #1: You've just wasted a little bit of your programmers' time. Problem #2: You will waste a whole lot more of their time at the other end when things aren't right. 3. Workingly remotely enforces discipline. Things need to be written down. It's hard to peer review meeting notes or Skype recordings. Specs, reqs, test plans, etc. need to be documented and reviewed BEFORE wasting programmer time. I generally try to turn down any meeting or Skype without something in writing. (Skype / Webex is just another way for managers to waste programming resources that doesn't feel as bad as a physical meeting.) I have hard data via thousands of tickets over the years to say that working remotely has easily made me at least twice as productive. Mainly by getting others to leave me alone and to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century by doing their jobs. The most important job of someone who doesn't program? Enabling those who do. The main reason I love remote is not because of my home office, or short commute, or good 4-legged company, or working in my underwear, or anything else about me. It's because I have never found a better way to get shit done.
- archeantus 9y agoPreach! This resonates so well with me, thank you for taking the time to share. My company has started implying they want to move away from new remote hires and I can't understand it. Good remote workers, who are disciplined (as you said), are so much more productive.
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- eikenberry 9y agoHard to imagine why. Better work environment, better equipment, better office mates, better commute, fewer distractions, lower stress, etc. Plus it structures the communications better, so you have less of the random conversations and more use of ticketing systems and like.
- rocketlionqb 9y agoI would rather work from home. I lose about two hours commuting to and from. I would save on gas. My home office is confortable. I can cook lunch. I can go to the gym before everyone gets off at 5. I wouldn't have to listen to co-workers who likes to eat lunch with their mouths wide open. I won't have to smell the sack of diapers my co-workers like to microwave for lunch. I wouldn't have smell the daily onion odor from co-workers that enjoy showering bi-monthly. No broken A/C at the start of summer every year. No death/suicide commute dodging idiots that can't drive. I need another job...
- NateDad 9y agoI've worked remote for about 5 years (and about 18 years total). When I lost my last job, I resolved to only look for remote work. Commuting is a giant waste of time, which is the most precious resource we all have. I could live near Boston and have a tiny house with no yard and mediocre schools, or I could live an hour outside Boston and have a huge yard and amazing schools. The choice is clear. But it means that if I were to work in the tech hub, I'd never see my kids during the week. When done right, remote is awesome. There's no reason every programming company couldn't be remote-friendly these days. There are two things that companies often do that screw up remote workers: 1.) Having meetings in meeting rooms. This does not work for remote people. Remote people cannot participate in a conversation from a speakerphone when the majority of people are in the same room. You just can't break into conversations between people in the room. 2.) Having an open office. This prevents the fix to #1 - which is to have meetings via hangouts or other video chat, with everyone (even people in the office) participating via headset & personal video camera. The open office makes cross talk between mics too painful (with judicious muting you can sorta fix it, but it's a hassle). These are fixable problems, but the company has to be committed to good remote culture to do so.
- nsxwolf 9y agoI've been working remote almost exclusively for 13 years now. It has its own benefits and problems but I really, really hate hearing it described as a "perk". We've had the technology for many jobs to be 100% remote for a very long time now, and I still see it treated by companies as a benefit like "summer hours" or casual Fridays or whatever. It's pretty insulting, actually, to frame people like me as entitled slackers.
- lbrindze 9y agoI have worked in a quite office and an open office and I think at the end of the day my feelings are the same. I am more productive and can get more done in less time when I do my own thing in my own space. One thing I think worth mentioning though is as our systems become more and more distributed there is a clear advantage to having the limitations in communication folks are bringing up. It really forces you into a mindset where you have to nail down your API so others can neatly interface with your work. When I'm in the same location as a teammate, I'm more likely to just go over and ask them how their module/service works, which I might argue leads to more intertwined, less decoupled code. If I am physically removed from other team members, I am forced to make more independent resilient systems because in order for projects to be more successful, I have to more closely stick to the predefined API specs from the outset. I am fortunate in that I have garnered enough skill/demand that I can work from my boat, sailing around Mexico, so for me, the freedom independent contracting has allowed in my personal life is unmatched. I undrrstand why managers and business owners are loathe to offer this kind of work, and I think partly it's because a few bad eggs has given wfh a bad rep
- lbrindze 9y agoI have worked in a quiet office and an open office and I think at the end of the day my feelings are the same. I am more productive and can get more done in less time when I do my own thing in my own space. One thing I think worth mentioning though is as our systems become more and more distributed there is a clear advantage to having the limitations in communication folks are bringing up. It really forces you into a mindset where you have to nail down your API so others can neatly interface with your work. When I'm in the same location as a teammate, I'm more likely to just go over and ask them how their module/service works, which I might argue leads to more intertwined, less decoupled code. If I am physically removed from other team members, I am forced to make more independent resilient systems because in order for projects to be more successful, I have to more closely stick to the predefined API specs from the outset. I am fortunate in that I have garnered enough skill/demand that I can work from my boat, sailing around Mexico, so for me, the freedom independent contracting has allowed in my personal life is unmatched. I undrrstand why managers and business owners are loathe to offer this kind of work, and I think partly it's because a few bad eggs has given wfh a bad rep
- nebabyte 9y ago> For programmers, the ultimate office perk will vary depending on which programmer you ask
- mr_tristan 9y agoMany companies frequently build a hierarchy of "direct reports". That hierarchy really loves having people they oversee being local. It's kind of a cultural thing, but it requires a very, very patient and rational manager to oversee people they can't physically interact with. In my experience, most managers don't fit this bill. Add to the fact that most of these direct reports are done via a direct 1:1 meeting, most company cultures just really, really want to do critical communication verbally. I've rarely encountered a company that puts quality written communication at a high priority. The last few I've worked at have these half-assed wiki's (e.g., Confluence) where pages are written poorly and then forgotten about about 15 minutes after the page is updated. And then random email blasts. It's this focus on verbal instead of written communication that is a blocker for remote work. As a remote employee, if nothing important is clearly written down, it's difficult to be a "self-starter". You can't just research a problem yourself, you frequently need to be handed work. Thus, in most businesses I've found, the remote employees end up in this strange "in house consultant" style role. I suspect companies where everyone is remote also prioritize written communication.
- JimboOmega 9y agoHaving worked from home and on remote teams... I didn't like it as much as working with others, because I never felt attached to the team. A shocking amount (to me, anyway) of my motivation comes from caring about the people involved in the organization... That attachment just doesn't form with people I hear on the occasional conference call or daily slack messages.
- pmontra 9y agoWell, I'm self employed and work for customers mainly from my home (backend development, web technologies). One or two on site meetings per week and that's it. Sometimes I had to go to customers sites in my town two or three days per week, usually during design phases. Working at home (I live alone) and avoiding the office is definitely great. Zero commuting time, I worked this morning, went on a 2 hours 50 km bicycle ride in the afternoon, got a shower and back to work. I'll probably get back those working hours on Saturday morning. I try very hard to allocate some time for my interests. I'll be back to working in a office only if business goes very bad and I can't avoid it.
- rubicon33 9y agoFor how many months, or years, have you been working from home? And, how often are you interacting in person with people? I've found WFH to be great, but, after a while I really miss human interaction.
- pmontra 9y agoEleven years after thirteen as employee. I go out almost every day. Friends, family, technical meetups are the main activities. Customers, of course. I must plan to do something outside home or it would be unbearable. We're social animals after all.
- akinalci 9y agoI enjoy working in an office environment because working in my home can be isolating. But cubicles with low walls where I'm constantly seeing and hearing my officemates is awful. Who thought this could possibly be a good idea for work that requires focus? Also, a year after moving to San Francisco to work for a team based in the city, they relocated us to the South Bay. Now everybody on the team spends 3-4 hours daily commuting from SF/Oakland/Berkeley and it's awful. I suspect these are the kinds of measures companies take when they want to reduce their workforce without layoffs.
- samfisher83 9y agoYou spend 8 hours a day working. Why would you want to be isolated from other people? As a kid you go to school you are around people. Working from home seems like you are kind of isolated from people. Its not the same as over skype or slack.
- rubicon33 9y agoThis in my experience is the biggest problem with WFH. It's great for X months, or years, but everyone needs human interaction whether they realize it or not. If you're a highly social person, "X" will probably be months before you start to get cabin fever and feel extremely isolated. If you're more introverted, "X" may be as long as years. I believe though, it will catch up with everyone eventually.
- douche 9y agoWell, the obvious reason would be if you don't really like having to interact with people. It's exhausting for some of us. The greatest work week of my life, everybody else in the company was in Florida for a trade show. There was also a series of blizzards that dumped about four feet of snow over the course of the week - and virtually the entire northeast was shut down. I have never in my life gotten so much done in a week, and I don't think I spoke two words to another human being that week. It was glorious. Wish it was always like that.
- ilaksh 9y agoYou aren't isolated. You just interact online. Its not the same, but its also not isolation.
- dasmoth 9y agoYou spend 8 hours a day working. Why would you want to be isolated from other people? Some people (myself very definitely included) need some regular isolation. Talking to people all day at work leaves me very poorly prepared to deal with my family when I get home. The idea that I can lock myself away and do productive stuff is awesome (although in practise, a lot of remote work isn't actually that isolating). As a kid you go to school you are around people School is the last place on earth I'd want to model my working environment on (although the open office advocates seem to be trying).
- jordanlev 9y agoSo many comments in this thread are comparing working at the office vs. working from home -- but there is a 3rd option, which is to rent your own office! I do this, it's not very expensive (a few hundred dollars a month -- if I get 2 extra hours of productivity per month then it's paid for itself).
- matz1 9y agoThat's why I prefer open space office, because if I want privacy I can just work at home or somewhere else. What's the point going to an office where i will be in my own private space.
- uncensored 9y agoBose 35 noise cancelling headphones (or similar) should be provided to every programmer who is required to work in an open office environment, and even for remote programmers who have to work from coffee shops. It's a hustle to find remote work at top pay, not impossible but harder than getting top pay for onsite. When will that change? I've been remote since August 2015, and it's been a challenge to keep getting highly compensated remote work, but I managed it somehow.
- stuaxo 9y agoI always used to want to go into the office to give me structure. Recently I worked with a client where the office was so loud it was impossible to get stuff done. The difference in productivity working quietly at home vs in an office with loud music being composed and conversations being had across it was night and day.
- pklausler 9y agoSo many companies require you to relocate to work for them, and then fail to provide an acceptable office environment that allows concentration, so they let you work from your (new) home. It's bizarre.
- craigvn 9y agoI actually prefer working in the office. When at home there are too many distractions, too easy to go to the shops (or driving range) or start working on your own projects.