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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
- bogomipz 10y agoDoes anyone know how big of an impediment is not knowing French? EDIT: I should have articulated my question better by saying "in the short term." I agree its foolish to not learn the local language if you plan on staying. But if the office language is French that is going to be almost a non-starter for someone who doesn't already speak it. It can be intimidating enough changing jobs in your native language. I know Sweden and Berlin use English as the lingua-franca of the office. I just don't know about the French tech scene.
- mdekkers 10y agomassive... I am actually relocating to France in a few days. French lessons are very high on the list, as few people want to speak English day-to-day. The workplace might be different, and Paris might be different, but for the rest - French is a must. The second amendment of the french constitution reads "The language of the Republic is French" they take their language seriously.
- baboun 10y agoIt's not. Most speak English. Particularly in the tech scene. Come hang out!
- bankim 10y ago+1. I'd be interested in knowing this as well.
- esquevin 10y agoNot that big a deal. French people in startups tend to speak english.
- laurent123456 10y agoWon't it be a problem when looking for funds though? People who can fund startups tend to be a bit older and might not have a good level of English (or will simply be more likely to help the startup if they can communicate in French).
- esquevin 10y agoYou raise an interesting point. I mostly answered from the point of view of an engineer, for whom it's not the biggest issue not to speak french. For a founder though it'd make things more complicated. They'd need to have someone close who speaks french, especially since there is a bunch of paperwork to do to start a company here and some physical interactions with french administration where english speaking might not be guaranteed.
- VeejayRampay 10y agoThey will also be more impressed and glad that some foreigner is trying to create value in their country. I don't think language is really a barrier in this case.
- renaudg 10y agoDefinitely not a problem with French investors. They're business people who will of course speak English. The real challenge for a non-French speaking founder would mainly be in dealings with local authorities. You can't expect public servants to speak any English or have any English-translated documentation / forms available.
- EnglishInFrance 10y agoI believe this is entirely too dismissive of a very complex and important subject. As a native English speaker living in France, I would strongly advise anyone considering living and working here that it is absolutely critical to speak, read, and write a competent level of French if one is to be successful. Sure, if you're going to just live in the center of Paris and spend all your time in the Expat crowd, you can get by, but it's disingenuous to claim that someone wouldn't be at a significant disadvantage in a French company if they only speak English. I'm aware of several companies that claim they operate in English, but what this really means is that formal meetings and (some) emails are written in English, and all other conversation is in French.
- endymi0n 10y agoHonnêtement, je pense que vous allez être bien sans parler un mot.
- weberc2 10y agoThis wasn't my experience living in Rennes, trying very hard to speak French. :(
- tobltobs 10y agoAs fine as you can be if you can not talk to about 90% of the people around you.
- paradite 10y agoGoogle Translate for the lazy: Honestly, I think you're going to be fine without speaking a word. https://translate.google.com.sg/?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&client=tw-ob#auto/en/Honn%C3%AAtement%2C%20je%20pense%20que%20vous%20allez%20%C3%AAtre%20bien%20sans%20parler%20un%20mot https://translate.google.com.sg/?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&client=tw-ob....
- paraboul 10y agoLike not speaking the local language of any country : won't work in the long term.
- nkkollaw 10y agoI disagree. Not every country is the same. I was in Berlin, and I was never spoken to in German (since I don't really look German), and I would ask the person if they spoke English just to be polite before I started speaking to them, and they would almost get offended. Actually, I hardly heard any German being spoken. On the contrary, in Warsaw I had problems getting basic directions in English even if I asked young people on the street. They were either self-conscious or didn't know English, but either way they wouldn't speak to me in English. When I went to mini-markets and places where you'd find less educated people at the cash register, absolutely zero. Not even "bag".
- paraboul 10y agoI'm actually a French who lived 5 years in Berlin. I can tell you that not speaking german was really a burden (again in the long term). Everyone below 40 speaks english, but as soon as you have to deal with the administration, or just even the doctor, it really was a PITA. Also, Even the tech support (e.g. for Internet) wasn't allowed to speaks English on phone. I'm pretty sure the same "issues" apply to any country.
- nkkollaw 10y agoYes. My point wasn't that it's not a problem in the long term, but that in some countries it's also a problem in the short term. In Poland I really felt unwelcomed on many occasions. The fact that they're extremely nationalistic doesn't help, I guess. I was surprised that even 18-year-olds wouldn't speak English to me. I'm now learning Polish.
- throwaway1892 10y agoThat's odd, I felt very welcome when I was there hiking this summer. But then it might not have been in the same areas, plus the usual difference between the country and cities.
- oelmekki 10y agoIf you live in Paris, you would probably be fine, but outside Paris you may have hard time finding people speaking english (that is, in the street, shops, etc). Sadly, foreign languages are not proper priorities in our education.
- weberc2 10y agoI lived in Rennes, and frequently visited Paris. Your post summarizes my experiences exactly. What's more--I learned French in university, but my accent and the native accent were mutually unintelligible for quite a long time.
- bru 10y agoGiven France history (and bagage with England), many French people are very proud of their language. I believe that if one wants to really enjoy France, develop good friendships there, etc., one has to speak French. Or at least be learning it.
- camus2 10y agoFrench here. You have to learn french, people in the french administration aren't going to communicate with in you English. Obviously in Paris more and more people know English since it's a touristic area. But it isn't like Berlin,Amsterdam or Brussels where you can live with very little local language knowledge. Correct french is a pain in the ass to learn, the language is needlessly complicated. Frankly If I were a "foreigner" (outside the EU) who wants to move to a non English speaking European country, I'd go to Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden or Austria. I lived and worked in all these countries without problem and with little knowledge of the local language. Just don't come here with 0 french and expect to find work, that's not realistic. If you are an "expat" (i.e. you already have a guaranteed job in France), then by all means...
- Gmo 10y agoI'm sorry, but ... typical French reaction (I'm French myself) The government and the administration is trying to improve the climate on founders/visa/startups/tech, and yes, it's far from being perfect and there are a lot of pieces missing and a lot that could be improved, but, at least, they seem to be trying. And then you come, and just tell people they should go somewhere else "because it will be too hard". So, I'm all for warning that it won't be all pink and easy, but I don't think it ought to be as hard as you seem to imply. One thing which is definitely true is learning a few words and know how to say "Hi" in French and that you don't know the language will go a long way. After, that, if you feel like you want to stay in the country, you will naturally go towards learning the language anyway. I lived 7 years in the Netherlands, and you can go mostly fine with just English (even though, in some more rural areas, it can still be hard despite the reputation of the country), but learning Dutch helped me integrate and "unlock" situations where English would not have been enough, just because it showed to the people involved I was willing to integrate better in the country and make efforts to be understood.
- EnglishInFrance 10y agoI think the problem is that there is a complete disconnect between those in government that are "trying" as you say, and those who execute the day to day bureaucracy. Let's take an example directly from this announcement: "Apply to the French Tech Visa for Investors: Contact your local French Consulate or the local "Prefecture" (if you already reside in France) and follow the general route to apply for a "Passeport Talent" Only those who live here will understand what this entails. The prefecture is a branch of regional government that is totally gridlocked with unnecessary paperwork.
- falloutx 10y agoReal question for me is that how good french people are at speaking English? If I go there, I wouldn't be able to speak any French on day 1, so It would be nice if there is a decent percentage of people speaking English so that I get by until I learn Essential French.
- EnglishInFrance 10y agoWhen compared to a country that has high levels of English literacy such as the Netherlands, there's a major difference here. You will be able to get by just fine in Paris for things like restaurants and hotels, but as soon as you have to deal with the government in any fashion, you absolutely must speak French. In places other than Paris and the tourist areas of some major cities, it will be very difficult if you don't speak any French.
- krona 10y ago> Real question for me is that how good french people are at speaking English? Mostly irrelevant unfortunately, because the French will expect you to speak French once you are in France. I've experienced this many times in Paris among French people I know can speak English well enough to have a conversation.
- tom_mellior 10y agoI've said this before in another relocation thread: I'm an expat working in Paris in tech. Sure, everybody at work is able to speak broken English, but most don't enjoy it. Of other expats I know, the ones who went to the effort of learning French, even just the basics (and are working on improving it), are happy here. The ones who came without intending to learn French are miserable. Many French people aren't exactly welcoming to people who don't show effort. If you work in a startup, your ten French colleagues won't happily switch to English during lunch breaks just so you can follow the conversation. (As opposed to Scandinavia, say.) You're welcome to come, it's great here. But don't come without wanting to learn French. You'll be unhappy.
- dorfsmay 10y agoHuman brains are wired to soak up languages. Anybody immersed in another language making a minimum effort, will be fluent enough in six months. People who say they have experienced the contrary typically go to great length to speak and read their native tongue. It doesn't matter how much you tried at home with a book etc... Once you're immersed and have made the decision to understand and speak the local language, it's like your brain goes on steroid. It is difficult to imagine until you've experienced it.
- aclsid 10y agoAfter dealing with mandarin and sichuanese, sorry, I cannot agree with you. Some languages are just plain hard.
- Sarki 10y agoTo summarize: It depends where you'll end up and which tech area you're specialized in. Paris is often a good spot, south east as well (Monaco, Cannes, Nice) if you're specialized in hardware. Regarding the south-east part, english might not be too much of a problem since international tourism is a big part of the local economy, I even heard that Google used to look for a spot there until some local political figure blew it up due to personal interests conflicts. Also for the record, Paul Allen's yacht is frequently seen cruising around when it's time for the Cannes festival.
- jlangenauer 10y agoApropos of this, I was in Paris recently at a startup event, and was pleasantly shocked at the sheer number of startups and people I saw doing things. This is a good move by the French, and will help attract entrepreneurs away from other countries (particularly like those just across the channel currently inflicting generational economic damage on themselves.)
- lawless123 10y agoThe timing can't be too much of a coincidence.
- camus2 10y agoThe issue is why can't France even attract engineers and investors from WITHIN the Eurozone, these people don't need Visa. The issue is elsewhere, not in the pool of engineers. France can't even retain its own engineers.
- jlangenauer 10y agoBecause those of us in say, Berlin, are doing our damnedest to encourage them here, where we need them for our engineering teams?
- misterhtmlcss 10y agoWhy would France chase an engineer in Germany? That has to be considerably more expensive then acquiring talent from abroad. Just eyeballing this would indicate going after a German or Fin would likely cost more, because 1. They have similar programs, 2. They don't care about Visas and therefore are less likely to be invested in being or staying in France long-term. If France gives me a visa you can be sure I'm there for more than just my business. 3. Language. 270+ million people speak French, so why not pull from countries and cultures that have some shared history and association. Seems to me this makes way more sense for France than chasing down Germans, Dutch, Fins or anyone else local.
- 10y ago
- reaktivo 10y ago`Cette page est indisponible.` When trying to subscribe to the newsletter ):
- laurent123456 10y agoWorks for me.
- weberc2 10y agoI got the same, but I also received a confirmation email.
- fn 10y agoI got this error too. So this is why they need engineers...
- finid 10y agoThe page took forever to respond, and I got that message when it did. Still waiting for the confirmation email.
- demonshalo 10y ago> The French Tech Visa aims to attract foreign tech talents oooh my sides! EKS DEEEE
- mavdi 10y agoGreat move. This is how US started a golden age. Encouraging outlooking and talented migrants with ZERO public money spent on getting them to that level. Free talent. And btw, outlooking and talented migrants are exactly the kind that will want to blend in and cause no problems.
- jjawssd 10y agoThe first step of a golden age is reduction of red tape.
- 467568985476 10y agoExactly - just look at how well the Kansas economy performed after removing much of their regulation.
- ionised 10y agoYou say that like cutting regulations has no ill effects on the working classes.
- adamnemecek 10y agoIsn't it like super hard to setup a startup in France? That being said, the talent coming out of all the grandes ecoles seems definitely underutilized.
- thibaut_barrere 10y agoAs an interim CTO who helped a number of clients find good hires, I can say I'm definitely under the impression that a large part of grandes ecoles talents is siphoned every year by FB, Google, MS and the likes (which makes it harder for new startups to hire).
- hocuspocus 10y agoAnd that's when they don't go to finance/consulting/audit instead. But you can't really blame them given the salary difference.
- bsaul 10y agoYeah, well, you can blame the "risk aversion" mentality though. It's a true waste of talent for the country.
- hocuspocus 10y agoThere's very little risk in joining a startup in France. You'll get almost exactly the same benefits as someone working at a big co. Work hours, vacation, retirement, healthcare, unemployment: everything is regulated by labor laws. But when a new grad from a top school can get 40k at a startup, no bonus no equity, or 70-80k total comp at Google, it's a no-brainer.
- bsaul 10y agoA new grad from top school shouldn't think about salary, but equity. Either as founder , or cofounder, or employee. The reason he chooses salary over equity is because it's a safer bet.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y agoGood to see things like this. Even though I would not participate in this particular scheme because I cannot speak French and have no interest in living in France it's still great to see this sort of thing happening if only for freedom of movement for hard working talented people.
- renaudg 10y agoThere's a healthy number of startups in Paris where English is the working language. It's true that day to day life may be more challenging without speaking any French, but probably less so in Paris than elsewhere
- EnglishInFrance 10y agoI disagree. I've heard this from people here, however after living here for some time, I believe the reality is that if you don't speak fluent French, you will be at a severe disadvantage.
- yaantc 10y agoI guess it really depends on the company culture, and one shouldn't over-generalize. I have non-French colleagues who don't speak French (and made barely any progress from their French lessons, but hey it's clearly not their priority ;) and are just fine. But where I work everyone naturally switch to English as soon as there's a non-French speaker in the room. So my advice to new comers would be to pay attention to this when you visit for interviews. Do you feel reluctance, are people hesitant and searching for words when speaking English? Could be a sign they're not used to it. If they speak casually OTOH (even with strong accent and the odd mistakes) it's likely they're used to it: good.
- omio 10y agoThis is my experience as well. You need to speak French.
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- VeejayRampay 10y agoGreat move by the French government. There are many things that could be improved vis à vis entrepreneurship in France, but at least we're giving it a real shot. Good going!
- spyspy 10y agoDoes anyone know if there similar opportunities for other European countries?
- toddsiegel 10y agoPortugal has a similar visa. http://www.portugalinvestorvisa.com/ http://www.portugalinvestorvisa.com/ My guess is other have too. Lisbon is supposedly becoming a hot tech hub. Regardless, it's a wonderful city.
- klipt 10y agoThe Portuguese one is targeting people with money, not people with talent. Not similar at all.
- kogepathic 10y agoGermany offers a special visa for people who want to be self-employed. [0] Additionally, if you have a Bachelor/Master degree in STEM, you can easily get a Blue Card if you receive a contract paying over 50,800 EUR/year. [1] Lower salaries would still enable you to obtain a regular work visa (which is specific to the job title and company). I've heard Germany is a difficult country to establish a company (GmbH). I can't speak as an entrepreneur, but as an employee it isn't difficult at all to get a work visa from the government. I'd say the only difficulty is that you need to have every document prepared, with a spare copy, and make sure you've provided all the necessary information. German bureaucrats are especially irritable when things are missing/incomplete. Germany is desperate for skilled workers. You don't even need to speak German to get a job in a big city like Berlin or Frankfurt. As someone from North America, I'd highly recommend you consider Germany if you'd like to work for a start-up. Berlin is the start-up capital of Europe, and there are so many companies looking for talent you can quickly climb the corporate ladder/salary by moving companies every 12-18 months. You won't be paid as much as in Silicon Valley, but rents are sane and I'd say the quality of life is higher than in the US. [0] http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/for-qualified-professionals/working/setting-up-a-business-in-germany/visa-for-self-employment#general-information-on-the-visa-process-for-citizens-of-other-states http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/for-qualified-professio... [1] http://www.bamf.de/EN/Infothek/FragenAntworten/BlaueKarteEU/blaue-karte-eu-node.html http://www.bamf.de/EN/Infothek/FragenAntworten/BlaueKarteEU/...
- finid 10y agoI think Holland has a similar program.
- upen 10y agoIs French language proficiency mandatory for this program?
- bsaul 10y agoi highly doubt it, especially if you speak english.
- chrisper 10y agoDon't a lot of people in France look at you badly if you only speak English? I read that this is especially true in more "proud French areas" like Paris etc.
- omginternets 10y agoShort answer: no. This may have been true at one point in time, but it's certainly no longer the case. I think this myth comes from a mix of two things: a) differences in intonation that some people (mostly Americans) interpret as aggressive or hostile, when really they're not b) the possibility that this was true in the past (e.g. during the 50's, perhaps because the French were eager to see stationed GIs leave)
- scurvy 10y agoYes and no. It was still there in the late 90's and early aughts. That said Parisians just don't like anyone not from Paris. They look down on other French people not from Paris. When you're from Paris, then you'll be judged on your arrondissement. Basically, Paris is a really judgy place but the rest of the country isn't. This isn't all that different from other countries' major cities (NYC, London, etc). That said, you'll get by, meet a lot of nice people from all over, get to vacation regularly in places which are "once in a lifetime travels" for most Americans, etc.
- jeromenerf 10y ago> b) the possibility that this was true in the past (e.g. during the 50's, perhaps because the French were eager to see stationed GIs leave) Or amybe, you know, because of the historical rivalry between France and England :)
- hartator 10y agoDon't go there. The limit of freedom of speech is real and can block you. Even when you run a startup that has nothing to do with local politics or anything controversial. Plus, we are still in "state of emergency", that gives the state more rights than the patriot act. Go to the US, Canada or New Zealand.
- bsaul 10y agoFreedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?
- fvdessen 10y agoIf I remember correctly, You are more or less responsible for whatever appears on your website. If your users use your service for forbidden speech, then you are liable.
- FabHK 10y agoIn Germany, you might be responsible for things you link to under certain circumstances. But I don't think that's really a big deal for startups in Germany. To assess this properly, it would be interesting to know what startups in different countries pay to lawyers.
- noplay 10y agoIf you are a publisher. Youtube, twitter, etc are seen as hosting platform and it's not the same law
- dap 10y agoMaybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten ?
- dest 10y agoSome opinions are not only socially incorrect, they can get you to jail. Examples of forbidden topics: homosexuals, non-white people, jews, saying that you don't need health insurance… Of course not endorsing anything about those topics, just saying that forbiding any debate on those topics may not be a long-term solution to solve those societal questions. We get the popular far-right party FN for some reason I think. Edit to bring "my damn sources": about health insurance http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2252/AN/801.asp http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2252/AN/801... incitation to anorexia http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/04/02/97001-20150402FILWWW00021-loi-sante-un-delit-d-incitation-a-l-anorexie-cree.php http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/04/02/97001-20150402F... saying you should not do abortion: https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/1999/qSEQ990415534.html https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/1999/qSEQ990415534.html for other topics, finding sources should be even easier
- hartator 10y agoDon't go there. The limit of freedom of speech is real and can block you. Even when you run a startup that has nothing to do with local politics or anything controversial. Plus, we are still in "state of emergency", that gives the state more rights than the patriot act. Go to the US, Canada or New Zealand.
- randomname2 10y agoThe UK has a similar visa for senior engineers: http://www.techcityuk.com/tech-nation-visa/ http://www.techcityuk.com/tech-nation-visa/ "This specific visa can be used for talent coming from anywhere in the world. As an example, we are aware of a recent senior hire from the US that got his visa returned to him in his passport exactly 28 days from submission. This specific visa puts an individual on track to Indefinite Leave to Remain and Citizenship with no need to stick with a particular employer."
- udkl 10y agoThe visa has a low annual quota of just 200.
- randomname2 10y agoFor now 76% of applications have been endorsed though. Example writeup of someone's experience applying for this: https://ksred.me/post/tier-1-exceptional-talent-tech-city-uk/ https://ksred.me/post/tier-1-exceptional-talent-tech-city-uk...
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- MicroBerto 10y agoDoes the 33% corporate tax rate and ~30% personal income tax rate (at a €30k salary) apply to them?
- pyrale 10y agoThe system here is that you can get tons of subventions and tax credits for being in IT. So yes, corporate tax and personal income tax applies, aswell as other stuff. You just have to figure out how much of this tax will be cancelled or refunded (usually this is the kind of infos that get shared in french startup networks).
- kybernetyk 10y agoFor the startups: Don't think so. Corporations need to generate profits to pay taxes. ;) The personal income taxes apply though. The other huge problem with France (and Europe in general) is the problem that you can't fire bad/unneeded employees easily. Continental Europe is a bad environment for young companies that need to be agile. Too much red tape and regulation. And when you survive all that, the state is going to take most of your profits as taxes and compulsory social contributions (and compulsory non-social contributions cough German IHK cough). EU countries can come up with as many visa and incubator schemes as they like. But they won't attract many entrepreneurs. Because if I'm an entrepreneur in the position to start a business in another country then I'm going to choose the best one: The USA. (I'm an European just btw.)
- jjawssd 10y ago> For the startups: Don't think so. Corporations need to generate profits to pay taxes. ;) You are contradicting your own point. A startup with zero profit can still be taxed at a very high rate and pay almost zero taxes simply because there is no profit to be taxed. But the rule would still apply in this case.
- yannickmahe 10y ago30% income tax is the marginal rate. On your 30k, you get 1925€ per month (23k/yr) after corporate tax/social security etc. We call this "net" even though income tax is due on top of that. For income tax, you pay taxes according to the following brackets (on yearly income) : - 0€ to 9700€ : 0% - 9701€ to 26791€ : 14% - 26791€ to 71826€ : 30% That means for a single person with no children, you pay an incone tax of 234€/yr, or 20€/month.
- partisan 10y agoSo no children? It only mentions the spouse.
- tonfa 10y agoI think it's covered: The “skills and talents”, “EU Blue Card,” “employee on assignment” and “scientist-researcher” temporary residence permits provide full rights to a “private and family life” permit for family members accompanying a non-EU national. (from http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-do-i-need-before-leaving/france/family-member_en http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-do-i-need-before-leavin...)
- partisan 10y agoThank you. I will now plead the case to my wife.
- noplay 10y agoI think it's obvious for government that child are welcome. And they will got free education of course.
- xarien 10y agoWhy put this out prior to French elections?
- throwaway1892 10y agoWell, the current government could be trying to have one positive result. And have some example of migrants with a positive economic impact.
- manis404 10y agoAre you trying to imply that Syrians and Tunisians have NO positive economic impact?
- throwaway1892 10y ago> Are you trying to imply that Syrians and Tunisians have NO positive economic impact? Why is this comment dead? It was more or less my point, which that a lot of unqualified migrants, mostly from Africa and Asia, has no positive economic impact, since we have NOTHING to offer to them (no job, no future). So I am opposed to more unqualified migrants coming for economic reasons. Syrian refugees, on the other hand, I think we should help them.
- geff82 10y agoParis is great, grew up there. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that more than half of your money get taken by the government for taxes and social security.
- CretinDesAlpes 10y agoI think it's more like 40%. But at least we have free schools, free universities (ok, sometimes 500EUR/year) and a decent public health service. I also grew up and lived in France for 20+ years and have lived in UK for 5+ years. It's true that I earn more in UK than in France but for example to compare public health systems, although both are free, NHS is really the worse and it does not seem it's going to get any better in the future.
- jjawssd 10y agoSo what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government deciding how to spend a very large portion of your hard earned income? Is there even an incentive to work? What are the unemployment benefits?
- harperlee 10y agoThat portrayal of the French system is a little bit biased. You could just as well say: So what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government saving your life when you are ill without expecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills that will ruin the rest of your life? Without considering whether you are able to pay, as if you were a human being that deserves help and humanity? And helping you if you lose your job??!?! As you see, neither of them helps the discussion a lot, as they are aggressive and the typical reaction would be to take a defensive position. > Is there even an incentive to work? Most of the people there work. A little bit later, as they take more vacation. And they survive. And on average wouldn't trade it for an American lifestyle. It is a matter of life choices. And the point is that these programs enhance mobility so more people can choose, which is better.
- adventured 10y ago
- bsaul 10y agoWarning : Highly sensitive subject Everyone who has ever done recruiting in a french IT company noticed that 80 to 90% of the resumes you receive come from North African countries (old colonies, mainly Algeria and Tunisia), that try to get a job in order to get a Visa. Most of them are unqualified, but they just "go for it". Now, is this initiative going to lead to most of them pretending to want to start a company ? And how is the program going to filter qualified individuals to opportunists ?
- Shanea93 10y agoThere are only 70 start-up incubator visas available, so I assume competition is exceptionally fierce. This aside, for the engineer visas, it requires getting a job offer from one of the "100+ leading French Start-Ups", which means you presumably have to pass whatever requirements those hiring managers impose on you as well.
- bsaul 10y agoOk, thanks for the info. For the engineer visas, I thought that obtaining a Visa once a company has agreed to hire you was already possible. So what's the difference with this program, in the "engineer" case ?
- bankim 10y agoWhat are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?
- esquevin 10y agoYou'll definitely earn way less, but you'll be entitled to a lot of vacations (5~7 weeks of paid vacations). The Americans I know that went to work to France don't want to go back
- javajosh 10y agoSo do the Americans like it in France and want to stay there? The wording of your comment makes it unclear.
- jjawssd 10y agoThe Americans that went to France earn less money but want to stay there because they have more vacation time and presumably better quality of life
- steelbird 10y agoThe context suggests they like it in France. Could be clearer though.
- david927 10y agoI'm an American that just spent five years in France. My experience, for what it's worth: I can't say enough nice things about it in every aspect outside of work. I lived in the south of France and I now realize how nice life can be. Life -- not work. Working there was a nightmare. The pay is low, and while you can live on it, you're not really saving. For a while I was part of the startup community there and while there are many great programs from the government, there is a bit of a local mafia deciding things. Investors were so unsophisticated that technology itself seemed to scare them. All-in-all, if I could have made it work, I would have done so in a heartbeat. Living there is simply a small piece of heaven on earth. There's just no way to viably work there that I could find.
- intralizee 10y agoI would love to go to France. I'm in US right now, 1 semester left for degree and have interned at a respectable company. I wonder if they're looking for experienced engineers over fresh ones. I've read so much that work life and culture is so much better in France, so heres hoping...
- pyrale 10y ago> I've read so much that work life and culture is so much better in France, so heres hoping... Yes and no. There's certainly room for a healthy work-life balance, but don't believe that you're guaranteed to get an interesting job AND great work-life balance. You can find it, but it's not 100% of the market.
- intralizee 10y agoI would love more details but don't know how to PM on here. My email is my username @ iCloud . com
- kaybe 10y agoThere is no PM here. If you want to be contactable, put some way in your profile.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dv_dt 10y agoSMH, I'm thinking there a number of mid to late career senior US engineers wondering what opportunities there might be in Europe these days...
- delphinius81 10y agoAbsolutely! I feel like once you get out of your 20s, finding the right work-life balance and general quality of life becomes more important. You can also better appreciate cost of living - gross salary isn't as important as what you have left over after you pay all your bills. Once kids come into the picture, the big expenses in the US like child-care, school, and coverage for your family on your health insurance plan takes a huge chunk out of your salary anyway. It's not a tax like in many European countries, but it's not money going into your savings either.
- giis 10y agoAnyone tried to subscribe for the updates? Looks like confirmation email sent only in French?
- manuelbieh 10y agoIf you take a look at the french economy, their political system, their tax rates and social security system you don't actually want to work and/or live there as a startup founder, so no need for a visa. Nice try, France. // edit: ah, not to forget about their unwillingness to treat you as human being when not speaking their language.
- cygnus 10y agoI'm French and I agree with this. I left a long time ago. Add: - the absurd administration burden to do anything - the absurd prices of anything in Paris - the lack of consideration for anything that is not in Paris - the denial of your rights because there might be some terrorists No way, no reviens Leon.
- true_religion 10y agoWhat if I don't want to live in Paris? After all, there are other cities, yes?
- omginternets 10y agoIf you don't want to find clients, then by all means live somewhere else. ;) France is very Paris-centric, especially in terms of the service industry.
- umanwizard 10y agoParis's relationship to France is something like NYC's to New York State. Sure, Buffalo exists, but would you start a startup there?
- ttoinou 10y agoThere is a startup scene in Toulouse and this city is really nice (and close to the sea and the moutains)
- user5994461 10y agoLet's make it simple: Paris has maybe 10% of the tech scene of London. Lyon (2nd city of France) has maybe 10% of the tech scene of Paris.
- danjoc 10y agoNo. Sorry. Not interested... French crypto regulations are absurd. https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/235220/french-bill-carries-5-year-jail-sentence-for-company-refusals-to-decrypt-data-for-police https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/235220/french-bill-c...
- FabHK 10y ago"Like its predecessor, it's unclear that this amendment will make it through to law." - did it? Edit: Don't need to remind you that other countries, too, have discussed or even introduced fairly ridiculous legislation (crypto wars, DMCA, ...)
- sporkenfang 10y agoIt's not crazy when you put it in context of the history of France with war and espionage I think. What are regulations on cryptography and decryption like in other European countries like Italy, Belgium, etc?
- mamadrood 10y agoThe article is misleading. This legislation [1] only apply to terrorism acts. And basically every modern country that was targeted has similar laws [2]. [1] http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/3515/AN/90.asp http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/3515/AN/90.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law
- LeifCarrotson 10y agoThat's a use case that was emphasized, but it doesn't appear that the government's actually aware of that limitation: > M. Pierre Lellouche ... told the National Assembly. “They deliberately use the argument of public freedoms to make money knowing full well that the encryption used to[sic] drug traffickers, to serious [criminals] and especially to terrorists. It is unacceptable that the state loses any control over encryption..." And whether or not it is supposed to "only apply to terrorism acts", there's no cryptographic algorithm that has a case for "secure unless the government is investigating an act of terrorism". The point is that French law requires applications to be designed in such a way that key disclosure will allow customer data to be extracted. Signal, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Apple iMessage, and other end-to-end apps would be illegal.
- hamilyon2 10y agoThank you, hacker news. That might be a chance I waited for.
- archagon 10y agoAny avenues for self-employed/single-person-company folks? I know Netherlands has DAFT but I'm interested if this opens any similar options in France. I have dreams of living and coding by the Mediterranean Sea. :)
- omginternets 10y ago>I have dreams of living and coding by the Mediterranean Sea. :) Not to rain on your parade, but France is still highly centralized around Paris. You'll have _extreme_ difficulty finding clients and building relationships if you're not working (by which I mean: spending most of your time) in Paris.
- archagon 10y agoI'm not freelancing or contracting at the moment, and besides, Paris is one of my favorite cities.
- lllllll 10y agoOne word: Barcelona. Best city in Europe :)
- aclsid 10y agoCheck out Aubagne, it is too freaking nice there. But yeah, as far as work goes, make sure you are doing remote stuff or willing to sell something to traditional companies.
- trvlngsalesmn 10y ago> Family: “Talent Passport – Family” residence permit granted to spouse of the main applicant, guaranteeing identical family treatment and automatic labor market access (as an employee, business founder, etc.). I opened the link to see how it would treat families. Much to my surprise, it gives spouses access to the labor market, too.
- finid 10y agoSo I tried to subscribe again and finally got a response, which reads: ` Bonjour, Nous vous confirmons que nous venons de recevoir votre email depuis http://visa.lafrenchtech.com http://visa.lafrenchtech.com Merci. A très vite. Bonne journée Envoyé depuis http://visa.lafrenchtech.com http://visa.lafrenchtech.com ` No big deal, I have a pretty good idea what that means, even though I don't speak French, but if they're trying to market to an English-speaking audience, me thinks they should at least have a version of that message in English.
- mamadrood 10y agoWe only speak this english in France, so now you're prepared.
- true_religion 10y agoWhy do you think they're trying to market to an English speaking audience, as opposed to a French speaking audience? French is the national language, and you'll be required to speak it in order to have a normal life.
- Chris2048 10y agoIn France, not necessarily Paris, or most large French cities. > French is the national language And what is the national language of Ireland?
- umanwizard 10y agoIn 2017 the national language of Ireland is, in practice, English, whatever their Constitution may say. In France it's absolutely still French. Many, many people do not speak English well enough to have a conversation. How is this analogy with Ireland even remotely relevant?
- Chris2048 10y ago> How is this analogy with Ireland even remotely relevant? the point is, what is 'official', and what is 'in practice' can differ. Quoting the official language of Ireland says nothing about what actually goes on. Similarly, The the official language of France says nothing of how easy it is to speak English there, especially in large tech-hubs (the context of this conversation), nor how this might change in the future.
- brilliantcode 10y agoI really don't see the point unless there are grants and labor based tax credits. Canada has the right model but it's still tough for small businesses to secure grant.
- frwo 10y agoFrench salaries are much lower and taxes are extremely high for high income earners. There's more than one tax on your income! There's the regular "impôt" but also the "contribution solidarité" which is legally considered "not a tax" but cost you a percentage of your income. And a "taxe d'habitation" too (which is proportional to your rent rather than income). There's quite a bit of misrepresentation and wordplay all over, so be careful if you are used to different social norms. France has been in a state of emergency ("état d'urgence") since november 2015, having been prolonged many times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_emergency_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_emergency_in_France Having said that, the longer vacations are indeed true but that's the case for other European countries too. I don't see how making one administrative task a bit easier (while all others can be extremely difficult) is going attract talent, except through the usual misrepresentation.
- yardie 10y agoI've lived in France and the US. At the lowend salaries are almost the same. In continental Europe its extremely hard to break the 6-figure salary barrier. Now that I'm working back in the US after 12 years abroad I find we're at about the same level if we'd stayed in Paris. Salary is up but so are healthcare costs, childcare costs, transportation. While my effectively salary is double my take home is only 20% higher. And I get 10 days paid vacation. Which is completely fucking laughable. Dining out is also very expensive. Just had a mediocre meal at an asian fusion restaurant and the final bill was 60 with taxes and tips included. I'm typing this on a French MBP keyboard which is really impractical but it's what I'm used to.
- frwo 10y agoI agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it happens often enough to be really annoying). I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. There should be a software option to switch it.
- esfandia 10y agoThe "4-year renewable" visa would make me hesitate, unless you don't mind going back to where you came from in case your business didn't work out or you got laid off. The feeling that you're in a temporary situation can't be very nice, and will prevent you from fully committing and settling down properly. Why not offer a Green Card or some other kind of Permanent Residency?
- arjie 10y agoWhat's the general deal with startup visas? Your startup fails, you have to quit the country? Seems like it raises the stakes for very little reason unless the country is otherwise startup-favourable.
- Chris2048 10y agoMaybe not a bad deal though, if you don't intend to settle. And maybe that's the idea?
- emilyfm 10y agoI agree, temporary status increases the stress level. The Canada Start-up Visa [1] gives immediate permanent residence, so you can stay even if the business eventually fails. [1] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/ http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/
- leojg 10y agoAnybody know how possible is to get a visa in france or another european country without a degree and 5 years of experience as a software developer?
- Raphmedia 10y agoAs someone who lives in Montreal, that's very strange to see. We import French talent by the hundreds because they are lacking interesting tech jobs over there.
- xxpor 10y agoIt sounds like they're trying to fix that :)
- royal_alliant 10y agoJews are moving out of Frances by the thousands to Israel because they no longer feel safe in France as a result of radical Islam. Really sad.
- jeandejean 10y agoDon't get it wrong, we're not lacking interesting tech jobs at all, we're lacking interesting salaries.
- eloisant 10y agoActually things have been changing in the recent years. We're seeing bigger investment, so startups can afford bigger salaries. Also multinational companies (like Google, Facebook) are opening engineering and R&D offices in France, driving up the salaries. Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a product. So now you can get a pretty good salary in France as a software engineer, and while it's still lower as a number than in North America if you factor in the social system and the work/life balance it's not a bad deal at all. Just don't go to the service industry.
- jeandejean 10y agoBy the way, Google and Facebook jobs numbers in France are just anecdotal…
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- mangecoeur 10y agoI have really high hopes that starups/high tech companies will also flourish outside of Paris. France has some really great medium sized cities - compact, livable, full of character and with much lower costs. I'm hoping that some of them will develop the core of a startup scene that will draw in more people and generally make them exciting. Toulouse already has this to an extent with Airbus being there, generally very active in aerospace and robotics.
- hiven 10y agoI've heard France is a poor location for startups due to their existing regulations, incentives etc. It sounds like they should fix that first.
- ddebernardy 10y agoIf by "due to their existing regulations" you mean not being able to fire any employee overnight after they pass their renewable 3-month trial period, then yeah, it sucks. (But let's be honest: you seriously need more than 6 months to figure out if someone's a good fit?) If you meant anything else it's mostly an urban legend IMO: speaking for myself, I found the administration to be more streamlined than most I've interacted with (including that of the US). Startup friendly capital is scarcer in FR than in the UK or the US, but there's still some and you can always head to London (which you can reach by TGV) to meet startup friendly VCs. And yes, the tax rate is high, blah blah blah. But try other EU countries for even worse. You're covered for healthcare, retirement, get 5-7 weeks of paid vacation, etc., and public services, good infrastructure, etc. all of which come at a cost indeed.
- coredog64 10y agoFor anyone that is really interested in this, I would first recommend reading Stephen Clarke's "A Year in the Merde". It's a humorous look at what it's like to live and work in France. Despite being over the top, there is still a large element of truth to the stories.
- manis404 10y agoBAD GOYIM! NOOOO!!
- tn13 10y agoHow favorable are France's labor laws ? Is it possible to have at will employment?
- walshemj 10y agoNo
- ttoinou 10y agoLabor laws are not favorable ; french like to feel protected by their state. "At-will employment" doesn't exists but since 10 years we have an easy-to-get freelance status ("auto entrepreneur") with low tax for under 36 K€/year.
- ddebernardy 10y agoThat "but" is dubious advice. There also is a hefty fine/clawback awaiting you if you "hire" the latter as "employees" and treat them as such. It's not specific to FR, in that the criteria that make employees that are mostly the same as those in CA, but FR taxmen and labor inspectors probably pay more attention.
- prodmerc 10y agoWait a minute... if this is a Schengen visa, what's stopping people from just getting it and then going to Germany to work on a startup? Not that it's a bad thing (well, it is for France I guess)...
- germanier 10y agoIt doesn't allow people to work anywhere else than in France. The "Schengen" part of it (which basically any national residence permit contains) just allows holders to freely travel to the rest of Schengen for up to 90 days in each 180 day period but not perform any paid work in other countries (something which citizens of some countries – including the US – already enjoy without any visa).
- renaudg 10y agoRaw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all adds up. I'm French, working in London and I've been happy with the trade off of more pay for a thinner social safety net, but I know it would be foolish to compare wages directly. I suspect the difference is much less spectacular with everything taken into account.
- umanwizard 10y agoI have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France's only slightly lower. But the difference (for people working at top tech jobs) is so extreme that no amount of free university and pensions can make up for it. Even if I have to save for my retirement, save for my hypothetical children's future education, and so on, I'm still making a lot more in the US than I would in France.
- rublev 10y ago>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. What do you do?
- umanwizard 10y agoI am a software engineer at a top tech company.
- martin1975 10y agoNetflix in the Bay Area?
- EliRivers 10y ago"guaranteeing identical family treatment and automatic labor market access" There's a winning move. You can bring your spouse and your spouse can work. That's a dealmaker, right there.
- noplay 10y agoAnd also she get healtcare even if she doesn't work
- noplay 10y agoAnd after the trial period you can't easily be fire (usually in startup you just negotiate sometimes to move and found a new job). And if the company die your missing salary will be paid by the state. Important when you move your family.
- robocat 10y agoI had heard that all the top companies in France were old companies - a club that effectively bans unicorns. I know that France has some incredible engineering talent (egg France is the main world producer for many chemicals).
- bqlou 10y agoTrying to add my piece of advice here with some interesting readings... I'm French, not a parisian (yes, we do exist), working in south of France. So for my (strictly) personal point of view, I hope to never work in Paris as this is a "too intense" city (this is just my way of life). But, creating a startup there is almost mandatory : lot of VC living there, important infrastructures ( https://stationf.co/ https://stationf.co/ for example, and many others). As many people said it, administration is hell (but it's getting better over years, thanks you www). So to avoid your hr, legal, financial stuff, take an accountant so you can do your job... Maybe it's 200€/m, but 200/m is like what ? a 2 days budget/month ? trust me, you don't want to waste your time on this. On the tax part, yes, there are a lot, and it's a better move for a french student to move to the US than an american student to move to France. Why? We don't have a 100k student credit to pay for (Very good public schools, and when I say public, it's between 500€ and 2500€ / yr). But more and more, administrations and institutions help startup founders financially. Maybe you should look for someone to take care of public grants (even if they take a commission on it) so you don't have to take care of this? Health insurance included, etc. It's a lot in the end but... meh, we always need a reason to whine you know. On the language part, yep. We are terrible. But in all the industries around my work, english is mandatory. In my comp, requirements are in english, project management tools are in english, etc. It's simple, it's mandatory to work in english in our techy fields, so we can't avoid that. But yes, going to the bakery and speaking in english might be hard first. But once you know how to pronounce "Croissant", you'll be okay. Oh, and we have good food (but haven't found a good beer (yet) :). Sincirely hope you will be more than pleased if you plan to come to France though...
- renaudg 10y agoRegarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top notch, virtually free healthcare system with no concept of exclusions or "pre-conditions" * Usually no student loans to repay because their higher education was free, unless they went for a private business/engineering school but that's still an order of magnitude cheaper than a US university. * a comfortable (unsustainable ?) state pension later on. * unemployment insurance that covers around 70% pay for months. * 5 weeks holiday + public holidays * Non San Francisco / London / NYC renting costs (although Paris is quite bad by French standards, and much worse than Berlin) If you're US-based, think about your monthly budget and what goes towards healthcare/co-pay, student loans, kids college fund, 401k, and building an emergency fund in case you get laid off / severely ill. None of that is strictly required in France (although some of it is available as extra private coverage, and a good idea) This is why cross-border salary comparisons are pointless, it's really apples & oranges. I'm French and living in London, and I'd personally rather have the freedom to have a higher take-home pay and contribute towards the above items myself as I see fit. But I'm not fooling myself thinking that because my take-home pay is twice as high each month, the math is as simple as that. I know that I'm so much more on my own here than at home...
- otoburb 10y agoDo you have the option to pay into the French state pension as a non-resident French citizen? For example, in Canada I'm not aware of any mechanism to voluntarily pay into the Canada Pension Plan for a strict Canadian non-resident. This would only be of note if you plan to retire in your original country of origin, in your case France.
- pmalynin 10y agoCanadian here, as far as I know you can't pay into the CPP if you're not working in Canada (I have a friend who is in the exactly that situation). But, that said you can put a lot of money into TFSAs and RRSPs.
- biztos 10y agoIf you want to move to Europe and work for a "leading startup" or a big tech company -- anything established that pays market rates for senior talent -- then you should also ask your favorite immigration lawyer about Germany's Permanent Residency for Highly Talented professionals, aka "Paragraph 19." This gets you permanent residence, the same thing as a US Green Card. The minimum qualifications IIRC are an advanced degree in something tech/science-y, and a "high" salary in the legitimate job waiting for you anywhere in Germany (meaning you have to get the job first). For scientists the salary limit is lower than for engineers. But of course the food is much better in France.
- EternalData 10y agoWith most developed nations looking to focus on tech and an inverting age curve threatening pension systems, I wonder how long it'll take for everything to shift from rampant nationalism to more open borders (at least economic borders).
- dannylandau 10y agoIs there a list of the top French start-ups? I'm assuming the Withings would be one near the top.
- user5994461 10y ago1) criteo (which is big nowadays, that's an ad company somewhat competing with Google) Everything else is second tiers.
- julio83 10y agoSigfox etc.
- user5994461 10y agoYes. I hesitated to put Sigfox. The thing is, it's in Toulouse (a major French city). That might be the only good place[1] in a 100 miles radius. I find it incredibly risky to play all hopes on a single company with zero backup plan. (I've worked in France, I've seen how bad it gets when you loose your job). [1] I have higher standards than the average Frenchie, just like anyone who's worked at top web and financial companies.
- catwell 10y agoOff the top of my head, large-ish French tech software companies (I would not call them startups at this point) include: Criteo, Dailymotion, Leboncoin, Withings, Parrot, BlaBlaCar, Sigfox... You could also include older companies like Murex or Ubisoft, as well as OVH. You may also want to look at other fields where France is recognized for its expertise (energy, pharmaceuticals...).
- paulprins 10y agoI'm a tech founder who is in Paris through a very similar program with Paris & Co, French Tech. If you have questions I'll loop back around to answer them based on my experience. Note: I didn't come with the French Tech Ticket (which was a different program that was more structured). I have an existing software company which I am expanding to France & Europe.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- blusterXY 10y agoApplied to the program with my last company. There was no response and no interview other than a rejection email. The business is now running millions in orders and several hundred thousands a year in revenue. I had wanted to go and thought the company was a shoo-in since it was 100% bootstrapped and profitable at the time of application. Also growing like a weed. So I have no idea what they are doing, but they don't seem terribly competent and it was a waste of time to apply.
- paulprins 10y agoProps on growing your business. Mine is also bootstrapped and doing well. Sorry that was your experience. They so seem to have particular types of businesses they are more interested in (though I don't know what that criteria is).
- Jerry2 10y agoI went to Paris in January of 2016 for a conference. Spent 3 days there, got spat on twice and yelled at. Would not go back even if I was paid to do nothing.
- mavelikara 10y ago> Validity: Four years, on a renewable basis. I quickly skimmed the page, but could not find information on a basic question. Does this visa allow an engineer to immigrate to France as a permanent resident/citizen in the long run? If so, what is the time horizon one is looking at?
- MAGAanon 10y agoFWIW, the US has Trump as President and he's about to Make America Great Again. So... all this debt/gdp ratio talk is just nonsense.
- narrowrail 10y agoWe don't need novelty accounts that regurgitate slogans and add nothing to the discussion on HN (whether this is sarcasm or not).
- grzm 10y ago"Novelty account" is an apt description. It's hard to judge these things without numbers, but have you noticed an increase in accounts of this type? Perhaps the past month or two? Edit to add: To be clear, I'm referring to single-use or single-topic accounts in general.
- zo1 10y agoI definitely felt that I saw a "surge" in Trump references during, and after the election, in all sorts of articles. Usually bad/fear-mongering, even coming from established accounts. Sometimes subtle, without explicit reference to him; but reading their text one can't help but feel like they're talking about him being elected and what that means.
- DanBC 10y agoI guess someone could scrape new user stories and new user comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories https://news.ycombinator.com/noobcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/noobcomments (A nicer use of those two feeds is to welcome new users, and gently provide information if they need it.)
- sctb 10y agoWe've banned this troll account and detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13413164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13413164.
- netman21 10y agoSurprised that the comments here are from the perspective of an employee considering moving to France when the purpose of the visa is to attract founders. Try founding a tech company when you are paying all those employment taxes for everyone you hire. And then they are only allowed to work 35 hours a week. I helped a startup during the dot com boom in Paris. They said the "employment police" would stake out their building to ensure nobody worked too long. And good luck holding on to anything if you sell. Sorry France. Nice try.
- renaudg 10y ago>> And then they are only allowed to work 35 hours a week. They said the "employment police" would stake out their building to ensure nobody worked too long. This is a myth. 35 hours a week is a reference figure (likely to go the way of the dodo with the next president btw) after which overtime regulations are triggered for some types of employees (mostly blue collar). White collar hours aren't regulated at all in the same way, they're just supposed to get some extra days off ("RTT") since that law came in force. It's true the "employment police" in France can indeed be full of nasty anti-business commies (a famous hard left politician in France spent his whole career there), but it's a total urban legend they'd be staking out a building looking for overtimers.
- nathan_f77 10y agoThis is great! The only problem is that I would have to move to France and meet a lot of French people. But seriously, I hope this will encourage many more countries to offer this type of visa.
- jpatte 10y agoSomething important to keep in mind for founders and investors I haven't seen mentioned yet: in France, capital gains are taxed at 33%. And there is an additional tax for wealthy people (ISF, impôt sur la fortune) to pay each year. If you want to be a millionaire in France, get ready to pay hundreds of thousands of euros in taxes.
- unknown_apostle 10y agoI'm warning everyone: don't come to France (or Belgium). The worst thing that could happen to you, is that your startup actually becomes hugely successful. You will get ripped off left and right by an pugnacious socialist state, supported by a spoiled population that still hasn't fully digested just how irrelevant they have made themselves in the world.
- throwaway1892 10y ago> a spoiled population that still hasn't fully digested just how irrelevant they have made themselves in the world. I think the problem was more with the various gov we had since De Gaulle than the population. And also with the massive immigration and the political exploitation of the migrants.
- emmanuel_1234 10y agoRegardless of what you take home at the end, do not move to France for the salary/wealth. Move to France for the way of life and the overall social and personal security. Some people prefers not being in a perpetual rat race and having more time to enjoy life, by being with your family everyday (not just on week-ends!), doing sport with friends or knowing that you won't go bankrupt/uninsured because of some stupid accident like growing old. If you're really into the rat race, awesome, keep doing it, but yeah, you probably should not move to France. I'm personally expatriated because my current mood is settled for the rat race. As I'm growing older, I have the feeling I'll regret it if I don't slow down and I'm very much considering moving back to Europe/France.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]