23 ms·

Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

507 points by temp 10y ago

otalp 10y ago
> For instance, in a series of three consecutive tests, the 13- inch model with the Touch Bar ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third. The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. And the numbers for the 15-inch laptop ranged from 18.5 down to 8 hours. What could possibly the reason for such drastic variations in the same laptop, over a short period of time, when the testing conditions remain consistent?
- falcolas 10y ago
  Background processes and vastly different webpages visited. That's all I can come up with. Frankly, I'm not sure either is a valid excuse for such a huge deviation.
  - annerajb 10y ago
    If they have some automated setup for doing this web browsing (maybe a selenium that visits websites for 10 hours?) They should be consistent after a restart and I bet they charge them to full before conducting the next test.
- coldtea 10y ago
  When they say: "ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third" they don't mean that each of the three trials consists of the same load. The mechanism sounds highly random too: "Consumer Reports tests battery life using a real-world test: They turn on the laptop's screen and surf webpages using Chrome. It's not a test based on benchmarking software or watching video that wouldn't require internet access, and the publication said that even recent software updates did not help the problem." Such tests should be repeatable, with same webpages, durations of visit, etc to have any meaning (and to be able to actually indicate issues with different battery life, and not merely different load).
  - coob 10y ago
    Doesn't seem fair to base a test on using Chrome when Apple bundles a more power efficient browser with the OS.
    - canuckintime 10y ago
      Read from the orginal source[1]. They do their laptop tests with default browser, Safari, and got those highly variable results. They then did tests with Chrome and got more consistent results (but still lower than Apple's promised estimates) [1] http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...
    - otalp 10y ago
      This is where it gets more bizarre. They did not use Chrome. According to their website: "We conduct our battery tests using the computer’s default browser—Safari, in the case of the MacBook Pro laptops." They proceed to find serious aberrations with battery life under Safari. Then they say, "Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs." Chrome giving much better battery results than Safari? That is unheard of. It's not a software issue either. I can confirm that with the latest Chrome my Air runs for about a third of the time that it runs with the latest Safari(I have the most recent Sierra). So this makes very little sense.
      - givinguflac 10y ago
        Agreed, when I read they got longer results with chrome I did a double take. It's never even been close in my experience so clearly they screwed something up in safari.
      - copperred 10y ago
        Any issue fixable by software is a software issue.
blacktulip 10y ago
> For instance, in a series of three consecutive tests, the 13- inch model with the Touch Bar ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third. The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. And the numbers for the 15-inch laptop ranged from 18.5 down to 8 hours. How could this happen? Did each test follow the same process?
detaro 10y ago
The URL should be changed to http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-..., since this only reports on that.
- latortuga 10y ago
  Honestly, the reporting in TFA is insightful, pointing out that Apple got complaints about battery life and instead of addressing them, chose to paper over it. Seems very relevant and, to borrow a phrase, wiggles its eyebrows suggestively toward a troubling trend.
wildchild 10y ago
Because you can't cheat people forever.
- simonh 10y ago
  I've been a happy Mac user since 2006, it's been great. Cypher was right. He should have taken the Blue pill!
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  I never felt cheated for these 15 years, how I am an (happy) Apple user. (but I haven't tried new MBP)
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  I'm not an apple fan but I don't think that is the problem. It just seems their competitors are able to deliver similar value at prices that are much more attractive.
  - sbuk 10y ago
    Or that they are willing to sell at considerably lower margins.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  I'm not a fan of what Apple has been doing for the past 5 years or so, but positioning products to be in the premium/luxury market isn't cheating people.
- dang 10y ago
  Your account has a long history of posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. Please don't do that. We're looking for thoughtful discussion, which I'm sure you can contribute to if you want to. If you don't want to, that's fine, but then please don't post at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
sprite 10y ago
Good thing they removed the battery time remaining indicator. People will never notice. /s
- jjawssd 10y ago
  In macOS 10.12 sierra you can option-click on the battery indicator and click on "show percentage". Now the fact that they are trying to obfuscate how low you are on juice is really damning
  - MiddleEndian 10y ago
    Show percentage is insufficient. If something in my behavior will cause the battery to drop from 50% to 0% in one hour instead of six, I want to know that.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - JimDabell 10y ago
      You still do – that drop-down shows apps using significant energy, and if you want more details, Activity Monitor shows per-process stats, graphs, and time remaining.
      - MiddleEndian 10y ago
        That's still a big jump back in usability.
    - paublyrne 10y ago
      You can use CoconutBattery to show time remaining in the menu bar. It is still being estimated, just not shown in macOS. This does not excuse its removal.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Oddly the underlying calls in the power api are all still there (so you can just write a quick app to query it) so I have absolutely no idea why in the world they have removed it, other than to completely irritate you. It's infuriating.
Daviey 10y ago
I'm not really a fan of Mac's, but I don't think too much weight should be put on this. Everything that Apple delivers is greeted with negative reports, and yet it turns out to be successful. Also... i've never even heard of "Consumer Reports" before.. but the name is pretty subjective.
- reustle 10y ago
  Consumer Reports has been around since 1936, worth checking out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports
- robarr 10y ago
  god, you must be young :-)
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    or not American
    - Daviey 10y ago
      Indeed, I'm British and certainly not young. Never heard of it over here... and I just asked around and nobody around me has.
      - aninhumer 10y ago
        It's the US equivalent of Which?.
- agmcleod 10y ago
  Most large product companies are going to be met with some people not liking the choices, or some backlash. You make it sound like all their products receive 2/10 across the board or something, when that's simply not true. One can't please everybody, but most of the phones have been well received. I think the worst issue was the iPhone 4 models having some cell reception problems ("You're holding it wrong"). Most of the products they put out are generally liked by reviewers, with usually fair criticism as well. That said, I think the recent years of there just being more earlier on bugs is worrying. I hope apple ups their quality control in the coming year.
mmjaa 10y ago
I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user. Speed: okay, it seems slightly faster than the old machine, but then the old machine is 95% full while new-rMBP is not even 5% full yet, so .. no indexing hassles. (old-rMBP would often become unusable during Spotlight re-indexing..) All in all, I'm happy with the upgrade - but with one huge big fat caveat: I didn't buy it. My work did. If it weren't for this fact, I'd be very reluctant to upgrade..
- jmnicolas 10y ago
  You don't address the point of the article which is battery life though.
  - mmjaa 10y ago
    I've been getting 6 - 7 hours average runtime on a full charge for the last few weeks, but I'm working (Xcode, vim and builds) and I don't think I have a representative work load - but I do note that this laptop 'seems' to be as long-lived without the charging cable as my previous machine. I suppose I'll pay more attention over the next week and see if its as bad as everyone makes it out to be - so far, I haven't even noticed. One thing I do really like though, is being able to charge from either side of the laptop. This actually improves things for me when in 'hacking in bed mode', since the previous left-sided configuration was inconvenient .. and is now not an issue.
    - davidf18 10y ago
      What's your config?
      - mmjaa 10y ago
mgkimsal 10y ago
Had one for about 10 days, returned it for a variety of factors, but overall, it was a nice machine. But for my workload, I think I'll move to a 2015 if I can get the config I want - should be ~ $1000 cheaper for about 95% of the benefit (some weight, some speed, retina screen, etc). $3700 ($3500 + tax) ended up feeling just a bit too much for the speed/value. Apparently, though, if I wait a bit longer, we might see a 32g model next year?
- bpicolo 10y ago
  3700 in what currency? I'm seeing 2900 USD fully specced (though definitely still absurd) edit: I was looking at the 13, oops
  - sprite 10y ago
    The new 15 inch max specced is $4,299 + tax in the US.
    - bpicolo 10y ago
      Ah you're right, I had clicked the top end 13 on accident. That's just nuts. The upgrades are a real scam =/
      - rch 10y ago
        They've really done their homework though. Price sensitive buyers get to feel frugal for skipping upgrades, while others get to enjoy a premium good. For me it makes sense to max out the options, but just barely.
    - at-fates-hands 10y ago
      WOW. I could spec out a laptop (pick a vendor) with a 500SSD, i7, 32GB RAM and still be under 2K. I don't want to say their hardware is overpriced. . .but they're stuff is WAY over priced. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7GHz-32GB-RAM-512GB-SSD-M6V80AV-/232167317067 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7G... $1,350.00 - HP ZBook Studio G3 - 15.6" - Core i7 2.7GHz (6th Gen) - 32GB RAM - 512GB SSD (M6V80AV) It's a dealer refurb, but still. . .
duggan 10y ago
This is an article that (incompletely) summarizes the Consumer Reports article[1]. The reason for the wildly varying performance appears to be due to a bug (presumably) in Safari. They had consistent results with Chrome: > Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs. I've been using a 13" MacBook Pro (without Touch Bar) for six weeks now, and have found the battery life very impressive (I use Chrome rather than Safari). [1]: http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...
- jnbiche 10y ago
  The fact that Apple would ship a version of Safari that so deeply affected the battery of their newest MBP is concerning, and perhaps illustrative of why many MBP afficionados are so upset about the situation.
  - acqq 10y ago
    Isn't it still a bug that is not new MBP specific therefore a completely wrong diagnosis of the problem? Wouldn't it be observed on any Apple notebook?
  - mmjaa 10y ago
    I wonder if its not the Touchbar that draws the battery down. Chrome doesn't seem to have as much for the Touchbar to be doing as Safari does - though Safari surely demonstrates the functionality of the Touchbar in impressive ways. When I'm not laying flat in bed (i.e. sitting at the office) I've actually used the Touchbar a few times ..
    - Tempest1981 10y ago
      From the article: "The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next."
symfoniq 10y ago
A co-worker who upgraded last week to a 2016 MacBook Pro from a 2013 is complaining about battery life, too. He used to get 10+ hours and now he's lucky to get six.
- spilk 10y ago
  Having owned MacBooks/PowerBooks/iBooks in various configurations over the past 15 or so years, what models were getting real-life 10 hour lifetimes, and while doing what? I've never seen anything near that on anything I've owned before.
  - waffl 10y ago
    Likewise, I've owned a huge number of mac laptops since the titanium PowerBook and I don't think I ever managed to get more than 4-5hr of real work use (adobe suite etc) I've always been confused by these 10hr claims and have never expected more than 4-5
    - symfoniq 10y ago
      I could get around 10 hours on my 2013 MacBook Pro doing mostly Web development in a text editor with the screen brightness set fairly low. My coworker is a writer, so he's not using Adobe CS or anything like that.
    - stuckagain 10y ago
      If you just use a laptop for ssh the battery life will be really epic.
    - matthewking 10y ago
      I get 10-11 hours from my 2014 13" mbp, usually running safari, mail and atom.
  - illumin8 10y ago
    It depends what model you have. I had a 2015 15" rMBP with discrete GPU, and I typically got 5-6 hours with my usage pattern (Chrome, Outlook, Terminal, Sublime Text, doing most of my development locally but running code on cloud servers in AWS). At my new job, I only got a 2015 13" rMBP without discrete GPU, and I now get 8-10 hours with the same workload. It's because I don't have to power as big of a screen and a discrete GPU. Workload matters, but discrete GPU and larger screen also matter, a lot.
Girlang 10y ago
Here come the Apple Apologists and the Paid Apple Astroturfers!
jjawssd 10y ago
Does Apple sell a 2016 laptop without a dedicated GPU?
- agmcleod 10y ago
  Nope, 15" one has Radeon graphics.
  - jjawssd 10y ago
    I can't believe it. Have they lost their minds? I was trying to buy one yesterday but I couldn't find one so I gave up and got a 2015 model with integrated graphics.
    - Eric_WVGG 10y ago
      I believe this is due to the desire to have 5k display support across all the new Pros, and none of the integrated graphics chips available now can wing it. Seems likely that the 2017 models will drop in price a bit and have integrated graphics for the baseline models.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  IIRC, the 13" models don't have one
rayiner 10y ago
Saw a 15" in the store the other day. It's the future, just not this particular iteration. The form factor is awesome--my 15" rMBP is like a boat in comparison. Make carrying a 15" as a daily driver much more practical (and the extra screen space is a big step up from 13-14" for getting work done). The battery life will get fixed in successive iterations, I think. There is a ton more space in there for bigger batteries: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s. Compare to how packed the old 15" is: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Jxqp6l2cEQn4olWQ.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Jxqp6l2cEQn4olWQ.h....
alberth 10y ago
71.8 watt-hour: 2013 13" MacBook Pro [1] 49.2 watt-hour: 2016 13" MacBook Pro Touch [2] Why are so many people surprised that the battery life went down from ~10 hours down to ~7 hours? When the physical battery size is only ~70% of the previous model, it's no surprise the new MacBook Pro only gets ~7 hours of battery life. [1] https://support.apple.com/kb/sp691?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp691?locale=en_US [2] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
- rayiner 10y ago
  The really disconcerting thing here is that this is the first macbook in 10 years to be a major regression on key points. Since the first Intel macbook, Apple has focused on core competencies: good touchpad, good screen, good battery life. Every generation got consistently better on those dimensions. PC vendors will do stuff like ship a great touchpad one generation and a shit one the next, but you could generally count on each successive Apple laptop to meet or beat its predecessor on those core metrics.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - grandalf 10y ago
    If you work at Apple there are likely chargers all over the place so you don't realize that some people actually do care about battery life.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    The problem is that reducing thickness is a selling point/feature for a lot of people on Apple products, but the compromises made in exchange for thinness cause problems for people who don't value thinness over other things. Having said that, it's important to note that CR did not give the Macbook Pro a Recommended badge (think of it as the equivalent to "Editor's Choice"), it doesn't mean they're telling people not to buy them either. The headlines are somewhat misleading about this. Personally, even though I've left Macs because I don't like the direction Apple has taken, I'm still hard pressed to say that the current crop of Macs are horrible just because they don't cater to my specific needs. For the vast majority of people looking for a higher end laptop, they're perfectly fine (albeit pricy). I've gotten over the fact that "Pro" in Apple speak no longer means "Workstation Class" (or something close to it).
Keyframe 10y ago
I went to a store in order to try one out. I wanted what was in 15" model in a 13" form, but ok - I went out to at least check out the 15" model. Even though I knew it was too big for my needs. What really surprised me was how bad the keyboard was on new models. What's up with that? It feels like a cheap plastic mockup of a keyboard. That turned me off completely. I hope they get their act together within a year and push out new models which are better. I'd buy a 13" version if it had what 15" has inside, but it doesn't. Other laptops look like crap too. Razer (14) is either unavailable in Europe or reading about it and looking at videos makes it look like not suitable for anything - bad battery life and crappy vents (makes for screaming noise and heat down the road). Shame, what would otherwise be a great laptop. Microsoft's Book thing is also semi-unavailable, can't buy it (asked Microsoft, they've said it's not really supported (retail) in Europe - wtf?), with Dell I had nothing but bad experiences so it's a no-go from the start... situation is kind of dire.
- spo81rty 10y ago
  Check out the Asus Zenbook Pro. We have a few in the office. Great value for the price. I use a Dell XPS 15 and it has been great.
- g00gler 10y ago
  I agree, I don't want a new MacBook and competition is shit. I wish the Asus Zenbook 15" models didn't have a number pad. Vaio models look pretty nice, I'd seriously consider the Vaio Z over a 13" MBP.
  - Keyframe 10y ago
    I've been looking at different manufacturers. GIGABYTE Aero 14 seems to be nice in sub 15" range. It even has Nvidia 1060 in it and a large battery.
- Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
  I'm still happy with the high-end Lenovo ThinkPads (currently using a W541) - not as awesome as in the early 2000s but still very solid, well-built, great keyboards, matte screens (but check if you mind this, I'm not sure if every model has them) and with trackpoint, which becomes a must when you get used to it.
S_A_P 10y ago
I'm pretty disappointed by the new mbp and the state of Mac in general for several reasons. I've made pretty significant investments in the Mac ecosystem. I bought a semi pro sound card(uad Apollo 8) tons of software audio related plugins and logic and I don't have a lot of confidence that when it's time to replace my 2014 mbp that there will be a viable Mac option to replace it with. That immediately makes my sound card useless (thunderbolt connection) and unless there's a Windows version of the plugins (most do have this) then I'm out that money as well. I'm already looking at having a dongle if I want to use the new mbp with a thunderbolt connection which feels like a hack. Maybe this seems like first world problems but I bought into Mac on the promise that they truly supported the "pro" community. It's looking more and more like Tim Cook and company have forgotten that.
- spilk 10y ago
  I think you probably mean Thunderbolt, or maybe Firewire, and not Lightning, yes? Lightning is the connector found on iPhones. I don't remember people complaining this much about adapters when the Firewire 800 port was a different form factor than the Firewire 400 port that came before it - most of the equipment that plugged into it was "pro" level hardware like you mention.
  - S_A_P 10y ago
    Yes thank you for the correction. I will edit the parent.
- koja86 10y ago
  Sorry to hear that. It's when it hits the fan when abstract words like "closed", "locked" or "proprietary" suddenly get meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in
- illumin8 10y ago
  Wait, can't you just buy a dongle to convert from USB-c to Thunderbolt 2 and continue to use your nice (I'm jealous, personally) UAD Apollo 8 with a 2016+ MBP?
jjtheblunt 10y ago
Why the heck would anyone listen to Consumer Reports for this sort of thing?
- Tempest1981 10y ago
  Who else has done similar testing? This is the first article I've seen mentioning the issue -- are there others?
timemachiner 10y ago
Mine is 15", 16GB, 512G, 455 model. I'm a student and use it for programming, checking emails and browsing sites. I program in Java using Eclipse and in Python using Jupyter Notebook. I browse using Safari and keep tabs of time estimates in the Activity Monitor Energy tab. First 2-3 days I was getting 5 hour estimates. Since then it increased to 8-10 and now has increased to 14.5 hours. I keep it unplugged for 6 hours regularly and the estimates have been consistent thus far with the 14.5. I haven't kept it unplugged more than 6-7 hours but I am not afraid of it running out of juice while I'm out and about. Suits my needs as a student.
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  I had one for about 10 days, and do java dev (intellij/jetbrains stuff). I got 5-6 hours, then did the 10.12.2 update, and initially battery estimate went up a lot (15-16 hours initially) but it would ramp down sharply when real work was being done. I was seeing ~10% of the battery drain in an hour, meaning I probably could have done 9.5 hours of moderate work. Heavy duty dev (java/compiling, etc) I probably would have got at least 6 hours, maybe a bit more.... but I took mine back. Nice as it was, the price was just a bit hard to swallow relative to performance - was not really expecting 1% diff from 2015 model. I have a 2012 model, so it was faster than mine, but I'm looking at getting a 2015 and saving $1000.
  - timemachiner 10y ago
    I'm doing to do more intensive programming on mine in the coming days after Christmas and see what hours I get. If dissatisfied I'll return it by Jan 8th for a full refund. I need an all day programming machine for school. Thanks for your input on the 2015 model.
    - mgkimsal 10y ago
      There were some refurb 2015 models I wanted last night for about 4 hours, but I wasn't in a position to order right at that moment (driving, in meetings, etc). Got home, and they're gone! :/ Will keep looking, and ebay/CL generally have some decent ones now and then too. Benchmarks between 2015 and 2016 were within 1% on geekbench for most tests, and 2016 was often the slower one. Hard to justify $1000+ more for... not much more in the day to day benefit (but as you know, the 2016 is a pretty slick feeling machine, no doubt). Oh, and 6 hours on battery for heavy use is pretty good - I currently get 2-3 now, on a 2012 battery that is 1200+ cycles in. I may still go back to 2016 - we'll see. Good luck!
threefour 10y ago
Let's not forget when Consumer Reports attacked the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records. If we're looking for a signal about the MacBook Pro's success, sales numbers may be a better indicator.
- bdcravens 10y ago
  > ...the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records. Apple also conceded the issue and gave all iPhone 4 users a free case.
spilk 10y ago
Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all. Thunderbolt 3 is backward compatible with Thunderbolt 1/2 via an adapter, but the Thunderbolt 2 adapter that Apple sells does not function identically to a Thunderbolt 2 port on previous generation Macs - e.g. you cannot plug a Mini DisplayPort display into it. Thunderbolt displays do work with it though. Also, the lower-end 12" MacBook that Apple sells with a single USB-C port is NOT a Thunderbolt 3 port, so you have to know which devices that have identical connectors will work with it. Apple makes the distinction on its peripherals by screenprinting a little Thunderbolt logo onto the cable/connector housing. The messaging was reinforced with corresponding Thunderbolt logos next to the connectors on previous iterations of the MacBooks - making it obvious that these ports were not just Mini DisplayPorts but also Thunderbolt ports - but the new 2016 models don't appear to have anything like that on the hardware. Additionally, there are USB-C cables and Thunderbolt 3 cables. Thunderbolt 3 cables are apparently higher-spec and will always work as USB-C cables, but the opposite is not necessarily true.
- IBM 10y ago
  In practice most people aren't going to have multiple Macbooks, and if that's you you should go to Monoprice and just get different color cables for different types.
  - fpgeek 10y ago
    People? So Apple isn't interested in selling to families and couples anymore?
    - IBM 10y ago
post_break 10y ago
I have one. It has usb c. My google pixel has usb c. They don't talk, only charge. I don't understand, USB C is now a bag of hurt. Especially when there are three types of usb c cables.
heisenbit 10y ago
This is great news. Value for money is declining and someone needed to send a loud and clear message to Cupertino.
pansen 10y ago
I was getting the MBP 2016 13" a couple of days ago; best equipment you can buy in 13", 3300 EUR brutto. Before (or still) I have a MBPR 13" Late 2015, also with max RAM, max CPU; 2400 brutto until 2 months ago. That is still running on El Capitan, the new one Sierra of course. System was migrated, so simlilar software stack (besides the OS version). My typical application list looks like: Pycharm, PHPStorm (~3 projects open at a time), Vagrant, Virtualbox, Chrome with many tabs, Firefox with less tabs, minor stuff like Sublime, Terminal windows, iTunes etc. Besides the critics on keyboard (especially the arrows issue), connection ports (try to buy a good usb c - displayport cable), which i would all consider as "managable".. To me this laptop is a bad joke if I see the battery time and performance. Given my usage profile, which I think should be handled by the super expensive top model of a "premium company", this laptop does only a minimum (if at all) better performance. The base cpu usage on my older one, having all open and doing nothing ist at 9%. Same thing for the newer one is 13%. There is nothing that works obviously faster, general "snappyness" when working is subjectively worse due to wakeup delays from the OS power optimisation magic. About the battery time I can only say, that 4hours is max for me at ~80% brightness. I'm also sure that the new MBP drains battery faster, meaning has less runtime (though i cannot provide exact measurements). As a good thing to say: the display is fantastic and of course it looks nice. After less than a week this device is not worth its money and does nothing more for me than what I have for roughly 1/3 less money and more than a year old. It is sent back.
- pyrophane 10y ago
  It is the JetBrain software. I use IntelliJ with various language plugins. It does a lot of work in the background to provide advanced features like completion, even for dynamic languages like Python. The problem, of course, is that the new CPUs are optimized to provide better battery life under typical usage. If you've got something running in the background that is constantly re-indexing your source code, then the CPU optimizations aren't going to help you and a smaller battery is still a smaller battery. Also, a lot of that indexing can take advantage of multiple cores, so the jump to a quad-core proc as in the 15" helps more than the minor boost in clock speed is going to. I'm usually fine with a dual-core processor unless I'm either trying to do big compilations (especially in Scala) or using JetBrains IDEs. God help me if I'm trying to do both.
nilkn 10y ago
The only complaint I really have about the new MBP is the price. MBPs have always been expensive relative to the specs, and I've always been okay with that. But it seems Apple's pushing their margins up even higher and have eliminated more affordable options (e.g., a 15" model without a discrete GPU -- I personally have no need for the GPU, but really wanted the extra screen real estate). After Apple Care and taxes, I ended up dropping over $3k on my 2016 15" MBP. This makes it the most expensive laptop I've ever owned. Just a few points that might be of interest: * Battery life has legitimately been fine for me. I consistently get 8-10 hours of light work (working in the terminal and browser). Despite all the battery life complaints, this is actually the best battery life I've personally gotten on any MBP I've owned. * I love the trackpad. It's comically large, but I adapted fast, and the palm rejection has been working really well for me. * The Touch Bar makes sense and is well-implemented. It's not revolutionary and I wouldn't recommend getting the laptop because it has the touch bar. But it's a legitimate (if small) step forward in usability. It is not without its compromises (e.g., no physical escape key), but I've found I adapted to the compromises very quickly. * The form factor is incredibly portable for a 15" laptop. * The port situation isn't a big deal for me personally because I don't use this laptop as a desktop replacement and rarely have any need for the ports. * I'm fine with the keyboard. It's very satisfyingly clicky, and I can type very fast on it, just as fast as any other keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer it to more traditional keyboards; it's not a big deal to me either way.
- IBM 10y ago
  I think price is the only real complaint I have as well. I've only bought Macbook Airs because they were thin and light even though I wanted the power and connectivity of Macbook Pros. This is the first MBP that I want to buy. By the time I'm ready to replace my 2012 MBA I expect the price will have fallen.
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  Agree with the price, especially being limited to 16GB of RAM. Often times I need to run a couple VMs, editor, browser, etc. etc. 16GB just isn't enough, especially with containers and VMs in the mix.
rememberlenny 10y ago
Do any MacBook Pro users like the ability to charge their machines with an external battery?
- datahack 10y ago
  I would love it. Unfortunately, when I talked to Apple about it at the Apple Store they said "be careful, it can void your warranty and there are a lot of poorly made batteries out there."
api 10y ago
I'm calling it the MacBook Vista. Ouch. After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy. People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they keep doing this, it will erode. Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. The ecosystem never stands still.
- dashoffset 10y ago
  I really hope that better "Unix with good UI" laptops will exist in the future. Right now, I'd rather buy a 2015 MBP than any of those "Dev Edition" machines.
  - api 10y ago
    Over a decade of crawling on its belly at the bottom end of the market has really taken a toll on PC hardware and the whole PC ecosystem. The bundling of actual malware with PCs marks what I think is the low point. Dell's XPS machines are starting to climb out of that hole, but it'll take some resolve.
- guitarbill 10y ago
  > Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. Since moving to the NT kernel the underlying technology keeps getting better. But personally, I don't think the Windows UI is getting better, and the ecosystem sucks (app store, package manager, permissions system, etc). Linux desktop is awesome, but laptop is tricky. Battery life can be abysmal without tinkering, although blaming Linux for shoddy drivers isn't exactly fair. Non-Apple hardware+software always seems like a compromise, and we've been spoiled by Apple by having our cake and eating it. The most frustrating thing is that everything is a compromise now. Ironically, even though Apple is accused of not innovating anymore, I think many people would have preferred less innovation and more iteration.
SimeVidas 10y ago
R.I.P. Safari for Mac. Nobody is going to use you after this. ;-)
en4bz 10y ago
For those looking for alternatives here's a short video [1] that looks at some Windows based competitors in the same class. List below. Dell XPS 15 - http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT Asus UX501 - http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW MSI GS63 - http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf Gigabyte Aero14 - http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6 http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6 Razer Blade - http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ
- rayiner 10y ago
  None of which, ironically, can match the new MBP in battery life.
  - en4bz 10y ago
    True, but you can get double the performance for half the price of the 2016 MBPro, a 4x perf/dollar improvement. Obviously you pay for this increase with half the battery life.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - rayiner 10y ago
      The XPS 15 has the same CPU as the MacBook 15" and gets much worse battery life in the high-resolution configuration (and less battery life even with just a 1080p display). It's also not much cheaper.
      - en4bz 10y ago
        I'm talking more about the Aero 14 and the GS63. Both of which are roughly half the price and have GTX 1060s which have 2x the GPU performance.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
pnw_hazor 10y ago
I have lost faith in Apple engineering. My iPhone 6s is sketchy (e.g., lockups, shutdowns) whereas my iPhone 4s was bulletproof. And it seems the new MPBs are lame. I just bought a Samsung 9 to hold me over for a year while I wait to see if Apple can get its act together.
Razengan 10y ago
The new MacBooks have still outsold all other competitors, apparently: https://intelligence.slice.com/apples-macbook-pro-launch/ https://intelligence.slice.com/apples-macbook-pro-launch/
- Eric_WVGG 10y ago
  I dunno who Slice is, but Phil Schiller claims "our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before." http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macbook-pro-has-more-orders-from-apple-than-any-other-pro-model-ever http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/phil-schiller-new-...
karim79 10y ago
Just a random and wild thought: I wonder if the inconsistency in battery life might be related to variances in ambient noise levels in the test environment. Could it be Siri listening to stuff when it shouldn't be by way of a bug or something else? I have a maxed out 15 TB MBPro and the battery seems just fine and in line with what I expect. I love it: keyboard, screen, build quality, performance. I have literally worked with every single previous generation of the Pro and this one feels the best. Happy customer here.
phaed 10y ago
Glad you found your way out of the Apple user cognitive dissonance. Not the direction most gave gone, It's not easy to go full-retard on something like this.
- dang 10y ago
  Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 and marked it off-topic.
DoodleBuggy 10y ago
Source minus the ads ads ads ads Business Insider ads ads ads ads regurgitation: http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...
ronyeh 10y ago
For people who want to improve their TouchBar experience, BetterTouchTool allows you to add custom buttons to your touch bar, accessible globally. I've been using it for weeks with great success. You can even change the buttons that show up when you have alt depressed, etc.
yoplait_ 10y ago
what a load of bollocks
- dang 10y ago
  Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 and marked it off-topic.
davidf18 10y ago
This very thorough review: See under "Battery Runtime" "Even though the battery capacity was reduced by almost 25 % compared to the predecessor, Apple still managed to improve the overall runtimes with the 76-Wh battery. Our WiFi test determines an advantage of 130 minutes, so little more than two hours." [1] If you read actual users of the 2016 rMBP in this thread as well as reports on macrumors forum you'll see that there are a number of people who report good battery times and even exceeding those of the 2015 machine. I would question the Consumer Reports review process given the review cited above, the reports in this thread and that in the macrumors forum. [1] http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Late-2016-2-6-GHz-i7-Notebook-Review.185254.0.html http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Late-2016-...
crazygringo 10y ago
> The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. It worked for nearly twenty hours, when advertised for just "up to 10"? Presumably whatever bugs led to 4.5 hours can be fixed in software updates (occasionally I find my Mac running at full-CPU due to some boneheaded OSX process). But if my new laptop has a best-case scenario of nearly 20 hours (and not "minimal brightness while not running anything")... then that's the best recommendation I've heard yet.
datahack 10y ago
I have a 13" macbook pro touchbar (~2500 bucks with warranty!). I've had it for about 4.5-5 weeks or so. I LOVE my Apple laptops, and have NO problem paying a premium for them. They have been excellent, and every member of my family is outfitted wth an Apple computer. The IT distraction time since I switched everyone has been pretty much NIL. I took it on a trip that was 16 days, or I would have returned it (14 day return policy). Now I'm thinking about dumping it on eBay. Here is why: * The battery life for a developer is terrible. I consistently get between 3-4 hours of battery life when developing, at best. It's probably 2 hours less than my old 2013 Macbook Pro 15. * The touchbar is not an improvement. I'm constantly hitting back in browsers as my hand is large and brushes against the bar. It has also crashed on me multiple times when watching long videos, which means I can't mute or adjust the volume when someone calls (that's when I find out it's dusted itself). My experience is that it does a lot of accidental stuff because it exposes a lot of functionality that normally requires explicit input as casual input, so zooming around youtube videos and losing your spot, triggering Siri (yes, I turn it off eventually), accidentally muting with a simple touch, etc, are all super easy mistakes to make. I preferred it when my machine's behavior was predictable. The major issue is that thus far there is no upside for this downside — there are no killer features for the bar (even the volume, rather than giving you more granular controls, uses the old sound register stop points rather than moving to a 99% scale as would be obviously intuitive given the interface — just plain dumb design from Apple honestly). Similar to my experiences with Siri, it's not making my life better. * It's not faster in practical applications, and in fact takes a while to recover compared to my old laptop (a lot of waiting to type on the login screen), though it's not particular noticeable. * The arrow keys are utterly terrible. For a developer, they are a fail. Why Apple needed to kill those essential buttons (for games, dev, etc) is beyond my comprehension. The keyboard is definitely better, but the arrow key situation is a mess. * I have to keep my phone plugged in all the time, which means I have a dongle on my laptop pretty much permanently. This is dumb. * The loss of the magsafe adapter has already caused my laptop to scoot right off the couch twice when animals and kids are around. Why? Why would you kill this and especially go back to a port than can be damaged with basic use? This just violates common sense. What is better: * The screen is sweet. I absolutely love it. * The keyboard is awesome for touch typists. * The touch pad is really the best I've ever used. * The dark grey color is attractive. I've also heard rumors that Apple has merged their macOS team into their main engineering / iOS teams or some such. Not what I wanted to hear, and totally not the direction that would keep me loyal to the company. Overall, it's worse. And the features that have been added do not redeem the laptop (which is totally what almost every Apple device has done for me — I was stunned). This is the first time it's genuinely a step in the wrong direction. Though I haven't seen any discussion of it, I believe Apple made many of the mistakes it has made with the Apple watch on the Macbook Pro, but that may be because Apple added an Apple Watch to the Macbook Pro. It's solving problems I don't have, and therefore providing me with products that don't possess essential utility and therefore don't meaningfully improve my life or provide me with a "sense of better being," which is what graduated design at it's best can do. This is a big, big mistake, and exactly how Apple lost it's way the first time around.
ArlenBales 10y ago
I just got my new Macbook Pro 15" a few days ago. Keyboard will take some time getting used to, but I'm still able to average 130 WPM on 10fastfingers.com. The trackpad is probably going to take the longest for me to adapt to. Not the palm rejection, that works fine for me. Rather the tactile feedback of it is so different from my 2012 Macbook Pro. It's very shallow and I feel like it should be used more like a touchscreen click (single tap to left click) rather than placing my finger on it and pressing into it, as the shallowness is weird to me. I have it on medium-depth click right. Battery life isn't too concerning to me since I'm mostly plugged in, but I will test it this weekend when I'm on the road and hope it's at least 6 hours. Also, why are all media outlets reporting on what Consumer Reports has to say? Why is Consumer Reports regarded so highly? Media outlets don't report on what CNET or ArsTechnica have to say about the new MacBook Pro. It reminds me of media outlets reporting on what the BBB.org has to say.
wolfgke 10y ago
Could the problem with the battery life be that Apple has the same power management issues for the Skylake processor (which is used on recent MacBook Pros) under OS X that plagued Microsoft for its Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 and also causes/caused trouble under Linux (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html)? BTW: Is this problem finally fixed under Linux?
outworlder 10y ago
Good. The error of the MacBook Pro is the 'Pro' part. It's supposedly being marketed to professionals, but optimizing for one thing only, which is thinness. I don't think anyone ever asked for the "old" MacBook Pro to be thinner. Maybe a beefier CPU, maybe a GPU worth something, maybe more battery life. Or more ports. But thinner? They used to have a very good product for that, and that's the Air, which is now neglected. Apple's product lineup is a mess. Like the time after Steve got kicked out. Disclaimer: typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro.
- shanusmagnus 10y ago
  I'm so sick of exactly this. I can deal with a few tradeoffs for thin-ness, with the idea that maybe it's Good For Me indirectly by moving the industry to adapt to a thinner, more mobile vision. But compromising on literally everything else about the computer just to get a bit thinner (worse keyboard, smaller battery, worse graphics, less memory -- things I actually care about) is infuriating.
omarforgotpwd 10y ago
Mine works fine. I love it.
dillondoyle 10y ago
I might as well shovel on my very negative experience, I want to switch but no one can make hardware like this... PLEASE someone prove me wrong with a link. GOOD: - screen is amazingly bright and fantastic. - sound noticeably better, even using the same headphones which does not make any sense, so I think that has got to be placebo? The Horribleness: - the mouse touch pad is so big on my 15" that my new default hand position on home has to hover and hands angled down and in. i'm resting like a few inches below my wrist on the edge of the machine, which is actually pretty sharp. If I go back to a better more relaxed home position my palms touch the touch pad randomly and when typing it jumps and clicks all around. - I think Apple's dedication to security is mostly to blame. 1) went to apple store, they didn't have cases when the announced at end of Oct right? 2) had to get a usb c to usb female to use my external drives. The store only had usb 2.0 not 2.1, so my hd is half as fast as 3 year old laptop 3) - For instance did OS look at the machine? To turn down sound, I have to touch bar. In some apps it has the normal three sounds buttons. In finder it doesn't and I've found some other times when I'm working and listening to music and need to turn it down it sucks: the touchbar might not even be lit, so that's one touch. Then you can either touch mute or what looks like lower volume, which actually opens a slider two inches to the left. The slider seems to be 0-100 but on screen it's the same old sound overlay with 15 clicks or whatever, and I can definitely move volume in between the clicks. Also while I was type that sentence both numbers accidentally hit the touch bar and did weird shit. 4) could go on and on, ESP the iphone thing. I get wireless is the future but come on... 5) I will never enable siri or the finger print. i was able to remove siri on finder, but it still pops up in the right for most other apps who haven't made integrations yet. 6) os seems to sleep or hibernate but then when logging in it refreshes all the apps? like all 20 chrome tabs reload? maybe there's some setting I don't have but that has never happened and is very annoying. And 1/10 times I miss backspace it hits siri or whatever shit is on the bar. 7) no space above up and down key is the WORST. gamers are fucked. even my career using photoshop and writing shit is slowed down until I get muscle memory. In the past everything has been so seamless, ready to go. But I think Apple is more concerned about a leak about the new millimeter they shaved off than get everyone working on the same team and actually using this product, with os, with iphone. (plus these keys are really loud when you type somewhat fast, to the annoyance of my boyfriend trying to sleep next to me). I can't WAIT until we get fast enough reliable internet everywhere so I can just stream a VPC in Amazon. Spin up a few Teslas when crunching a huge ML dataset or video project, no need to upgrade. AND Apple could do away with everything! So thin! Or quadruple the battery! That's the future I want, even if Apple controls the DC and my VPC.
disposablezero 10y ago
No more MBPs for me unless Apple makes a significant U-turn. The unupgradability was the final straw. MBP 13" non-Retina mid-2012, 2x 960 GiB SSD, 16 GiB RAM

507 points by temp 10y ago

otalp 10y ago

> For instance, in a series of three consecutive tests, the 13- inch model with the Touch Bar ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third. The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. And the numbers for the 15-inch laptop ranged from 18.5 down to 8 hours. What could possibly the reason for such drastic variations in the same laptop, over a short period of time, when the testing conditions remain consistent?

falcolas 10y ago
Background processes and vastly different webpages visited. That's all I can come up with. Frankly, I'm not sure either is a valid excuse for such a huge deviation.
- annerajb 10y ago
  If they have some automated setup for doing this web browsing (maybe a selenium that visits websites for 10 hours?) They should be consistent after a restart and I bet they charge them to full before conducting the next test.
coldtea 10y ago
When they say: "ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third" they don't mean that each of the three trials consists of the same load. The mechanism sounds highly random too: "Consumer Reports tests battery life using a real-world test: They turn on the laptop's screen and surf webpages using Chrome. It's not a test based on benchmarking software or watching video that wouldn't require internet access, and the publication said that even recent software updates did not help the problem." Such tests should be repeatable, with same webpages, durations of visit, etc to have any meaning (and to be able to actually indicate issues with different battery life, and not merely different load).
- coob 10y ago
  Doesn't seem fair to base a test on using Chrome when Apple bundles a more power efficient browser with the OS.
  - canuckintime 10y ago
    Read from the orginal source[1]. They do their laptop tests with default browser, Safari, and got those highly variable results. They then did tests with Chrome and got more consistent results (but still lower than Apple's promised estimates) [1] http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...
  - otalp 10y ago
    This is where it gets more bizarre. They did not use Chrome. According to their website: "We conduct our battery tests using the computer’s default browser—Safari, in the case of the MacBook Pro laptops." They proceed to find serious aberrations with battery life under Safari. Then they say, "Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs." Chrome giving much better battery results than Safari? That is unheard of. It's not a software issue either. I can confirm that with the latest Chrome my Air runs for about a third of the time that it runs with the latest Safari(I have the most recent Sierra). So this makes very little sense.
    - givinguflac 10y ago
      Agreed, when I read they got longer results with chrome I did a double take. It's never even been close in my experience so clearly they screwed something up in safari.
    - copperred 10y ago
      Any issue fixable by software is a software issue.

blacktulip 10y ago

> For instance, in a series of three consecutive tests, the 13- inch model with the Touch Bar ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third. The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. And the numbers for the 15-inch laptop ranged from 18.5 down to 8 hours. How could this happen? Did each test follow the same process?

detaro 10y ago

The URL should be changed to http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-..., since this only reports on that.

latortuga 10y ago
Honestly, the reporting in TFA is insightful, pointing out that Apple got complaints about battery life and instead of addressing them, chose to paper over it. Seems very relevant and, to borrow a phrase, wiggles its eyebrows suggestively toward a troubling trend.

wildchild 10y ago

Because you can't cheat people forever.

simonh 10y ago
I've been a happy Mac user since 2006, it's been great. Cypher was right. He should have taken the Blue pill!
Philipp__ 10y ago
I never felt cheated for these 15 years, how I am an (happy) Apple user. (but I haven't tried new MBP)
cmdrfred 10y ago
I'm not an apple fan but I don't think that is the problem. It just seems their competitors are able to deliver similar value at prices that are much more attractive.
- sbuk 10y ago
  Or that they are willing to sell at considerably lower margins.
slantyyz 10y ago
I'm not a fan of what Apple has been doing for the past 5 years or so, but positioning products to be in the premium/luxury market isn't cheating people.
dang 10y ago
Your account has a long history of posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. Please don't do that. We're looking for thoughtful discussion, which I'm sure you can contribute to if you want to. If you don't want to, that's fine, but then please don't post at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

sprite 10y ago

Good thing they removed the battery time remaining indicator. People will never notice. /s

jjawssd 10y ago
In macOS 10.12 sierra you can option-click on the battery indicator and click on "show percentage". Now the fact that they are trying to obfuscate how low you are on juice is really damning
- MiddleEndian 10y ago
  Show percentage is insufficient. If something in my behavior will cause the battery to drop from 50% to 0% in one hour instead of six, I want to know that.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - JimDabell 10y ago
    You still do – that drop-down shows apps using significant energy, and if you want more details, Activity Monitor shows per-process stats, graphs, and time remaining.
    - MiddleEndian 10y ago
      That's still a big jump back in usability.
  - paublyrne 10y ago
    You can use CoconutBattery to show time remaining in the menu bar. It is still being estimated, just not shown in macOS. This does not excuse its removal.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Oddly the underlying calls in the power api are all still there (so you can just write a quick app to query it) so I have absolutely no idea why in the world they have removed it, other than to completely irritate you. It's infuriating.

Daviey 10y ago

I'm not really a fan of Mac's, but I don't think too much weight should be put on this. Everything that Apple delivers is greeted with negative reports, and yet it turns out to be successful. Also... i've never even heard of "Consumer Reports" before.. but the name is pretty subjective.

reustle 10y ago
Consumer Reports has been around since 1936, worth checking out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports
robarr 10y ago
god, you must be young :-)
- slantyyz 10y ago
  or not American
  - Daviey 10y ago
    Indeed, I'm British and certainly not young. Never heard of it over here... and I just asked around and nobody around me has.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      It's the US equivalent of Which?.
agmcleod 10y ago
Most large product companies are going to be met with some people not liking the choices, or some backlash. You make it sound like all their products receive 2/10 across the board or something, when that's simply not true. One can't please everybody, but most of the phones have been well received. I think the worst issue was the iPhone 4 models having some cell reception problems ("You're holding it wrong"). Most of the products they put out are generally liked by reviewers, with usually fair criticism as well. That said, I think the recent years of there just being more earlier on bugs is worrying. I hope apple ups their quality control in the coming year.

mmjaa 10y ago

I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP. I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user. Speed: okay, it seems slightly faster than the old machine, but then the old machine is 95% full while new-rMBP is not even 5% full yet, so .. no indexing hassles. (old-rMBP would often become unusable during Spotlight re-indexing..) All in all, I'm happy with the upgrade - but with one huge big fat caveat: I didn't buy it. My work did. If it weren't for this fact, I'd be very reluctant to upgrade..

jmnicolas 10y ago
You don't address the point of the article which is battery life though.
- mmjaa 10y ago
  I've been getting 6 - 7 hours average runtime on a full charge for the last few weeks, but I'm working (Xcode, vim and builds) and I don't think I have a representative work load - but I do note that this laptop 'seems' to be as long-lived without the charging cable as my previous machine. I suppose I'll pay more attention over the next week and see if its as bad as everyone makes it out to be - so far, I haven't even noticed. One thing I do really like though, is being able to charge from either side of the laptop. This actually improves things for me when in 'hacking in bed mode', since the previous left-sided configuration was inconvenient .. and is now not an issue.
  - davidf18 10y ago
    What's your config?
    - mmjaa 10y ago

mgkimsal 10y ago

Had one for about 10 days, returned it for a variety of factors, but overall, it was a nice machine. But for my workload, I think I'll move to a 2015 if I can get the config I want - should be ~ $1000 cheaper for about 95% of the benefit (some weight, some speed, retina screen, etc). $3700 ($3500 + tax) ended up feeling just a bit too much for the speed/value. Apparently, though, if I wait a bit longer, we might see a 32g model next year?

bpicolo 10y ago
3700 in what currency? I'm seeing 2900 USD fully specced (though definitely still absurd) edit: I was looking at the 13, oops
- sprite 10y ago
  The new 15 inch max specced is $4,299 + tax in the US.
  - bpicolo 10y ago
    Ah you're right, I had clicked the top end 13 on accident. That's just nuts. The upgrades are a real scam =/
    - rch 10y ago
      They've really done their homework though. Price sensitive buyers get to feel frugal for skipping upgrades, while others get to enjoy a premium good. For me it makes sense to max out the options, but just barely.
  - at-fates-hands 10y ago
    WOW. I could spec out a laptop (pick a vendor) with a 500SSD, i7, 32GB RAM and still be under 2K. I don't want to say their hardware is overpriced. . .but they're stuff is WAY over priced. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7GHz-32GB-RAM-512GB-SSD-M6V80AV-/232167317067 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ZBook-Studio-G3-15-6-Core-i7-2-7G... $1,350.00 - HP ZBook Studio G3 - 15.6" - Core i7 2.7GHz (6th Gen) - 32GB RAM - 512GB SSD (M6V80AV) It's a dealer refurb, but still. . .

duggan 10y ago

This is an article that (incompletely) summarizes the Consumer Reports article[1]. The reason for the wildly varying performance appears to be due to a bug (presumably) in Safari. They had consistent results with Chrome: > Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs. I've been using a 13" MacBook Pro (without Touch Bar) for six weeks now, and have found the battery life very impressive (I use Chrome rather than Safari). [1]: http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...

jnbiche 10y ago
The fact that Apple would ship a version of Safari that so deeply affected the battery of their newest MBP is concerning, and perhaps illustrative of why many MBP afficionados are so upset about the situation.
- acqq 10y ago
  Isn't it still a bug that is not new MBP specific therefore a completely wrong diagnosis of the problem? Wouldn't it be observed on any Apple notebook?
- mmjaa 10y ago
  I wonder if its not the Touchbar that draws the battery down. Chrome doesn't seem to have as much for the Touchbar to be doing as Safari does - though Safari surely demonstrates the functionality of the Touchbar in impressive ways. When I'm not laying flat in bed (i.e. sitting at the office) I've actually used the Touchbar a few times ..
  - Tempest1981 10y ago
    From the article: "The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next."

symfoniq 10y ago

A co-worker who upgraded last week to a 2016 MacBook Pro from a 2013 is complaining about battery life, too. He used to get 10+ hours and now he's lucky to get six.

spilk 10y ago
Having owned MacBooks/PowerBooks/iBooks in various configurations over the past 15 or so years, what models were getting real-life 10 hour lifetimes, and while doing what? I've never seen anything near that on anything I've owned before.
- waffl 10y ago
  Likewise, I've owned a huge number of mac laptops since the titanium PowerBook and I don't think I ever managed to get more than 4-5hr of real work use (adobe suite etc) I've always been confused by these 10hr claims and have never expected more than 4-5
  - symfoniq 10y ago
    I could get around 10 hours on my 2013 MacBook Pro doing mostly Web development in a text editor with the screen brightness set fairly low. My coworker is a writer, so he's not using Adobe CS or anything like that.
  - stuckagain 10y ago
    If you just use a laptop for ssh the battery life will be really epic.
  - matthewking 10y ago
    I get 10-11 hours from my 2014 13" mbp, usually running safari, mail and atom.
- illumin8 10y ago
  It depends what model you have. I had a 2015 15" rMBP with discrete GPU, and I typically got 5-6 hours with my usage pattern (Chrome, Outlook, Terminal, Sublime Text, doing most of my development locally but running code on cloud servers in AWS). At my new job, I only got a 2015 13" rMBP without discrete GPU, and I now get 8-10 hours with the same workload. It's because I don't have to power as big of a screen and a discrete GPU. Workload matters, but discrete GPU and larger screen also matter, a lot.

Girlang 10y ago

Here come the Apple Apologists and the Paid Apple Astroturfers!

jjawssd 10y ago

Does Apple sell a 2016 laptop without a dedicated GPU?

agmcleod 10y ago
Nope, 15" one has Radeon graphics.
- jjawssd 10y ago
  I can't believe it. Have they lost their minds? I was trying to buy one yesterday but I couldn't find one so I gave up and got a 2015 model with integrated graphics.
  - Eric_WVGG 10y ago
    I believe this is due to the desire to have 5k display support across all the new Pros, and none of the integrated graphics chips available now can wing it. Seems likely that the 2017 models will drop in price a bit and have integrated graphics for the baseline models.
slantyyz 10y ago
IIRC, the 13" models don't have one

rayiner 10y ago

Saw a 15" in the store the other day. It's the future, just not this particular iteration. The form factor is awesome--my 15" rMBP is like a boat in comparison. Make carrying a 15" as a daily driver much more practical (and the extra screen space is a big step up from 13-14" for getting work done). The battery life will get fixed in successive iterations, I think. There is a ton more space in there for bigger batteries: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s. Compare to how packed the old 15" is: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Jxqp6l2cEQn4olWQ.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Jxqp6l2cEQn4olWQ.h....

alberth 10y ago

71.8 watt-hour: 2013 13" MacBook Pro [1] 49.2 watt-hour: 2016 13" MacBook Pro Touch [2] Why are so many people surprised that the battery life went down from ~10 hours down to ~7 hours? When the physical battery size is only ~70% of the previous model, it's no surprise the new MacBook Pro only gets ~7 hours of battery life. [1] https://support.apple.com/kb/sp691?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp691?locale=en_US [2] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

rayiner 10y ago
The really disconcerting thing here is that this is the first macbook in 10 years to be a major regression on key points. Since the first Intel macbook, Apple has focused on core competencies: good touchpad, good screen, good battery life. Every generation got consistently better on those dimensions. PC vendors will do stuff like ship a great touchpad one generation and a shit one the next, but you could generally count on each successive Apple laptop to meet or beat its predecessor on those core metrics.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- grandalf 10y ago
  If you work at Apple there are likely chargers all over the place so you don't realize that some people actually do care about battery life.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  The problem is that reducing thickness is a selling point/feature for a lot of people on Apple products, but the compromises made in exchange for thinness cause problems for people who don't value thinness over other things. Having said that, it's important to note that CR did not give the Macbook Pro a Recommended badge (think of it as the equivalent to "Editor's Choice"), it doesn't mean they're telling people not to buy them either. The headlines are somewhat misleading about this. Personally, even though I've left Macs because I don't like the direction Apple has taken, I'm still hard pressed to say that the current crop of Macs are horrible just because they don't cater to my specific needs. For the vast majority of people looking for a higher end laptop, they're perfectly fine (albeit pricy). I've gotten over the fact that "Pro" in Apple speak no longer means "Workstation Class" (or something close to it).

Keyframe 10y ago

I went to a store in order to try one out. I wanted what was in 15" model in a 13" form, but ok - I went out to at least check out the 15" model. Even though I knew it was too big for my needs. What really surprised me was how bad the keyboard was on new models. What's up with that? It feels like a cheap plastic mockup of a keyboard. That turned me off completely. I hope they get their act together within a year and push out new models which are better. I'd buy a 13" version if it had what 15" has inside, but it doesn't. Other laptops look like crap too. Razer (14) is either unavailable in Europe or reading about it and looking at videos makes it look like not suitable for anything - bad battery life and crappy vents (makes for screaming noise and heat down the road). Shame, what would otherwise be a great laptop. Microsoft's Book thing is also semi-unavailable, can't buy it (asked Microsoft, they've said it's not really supported (retail) in Europe - wtf?), with Dell I had nothing but bad experiences so it's a no-go from the start... situation is kind of dire.

spo81rty 10y ago
Check out the Asus Zenbook Pro. We have a few in the office. Great value for the price. I use a Dell XPS 15 and it has been great.
g00gler 10y ago
I agree, I don't want a new MacBook and competition is shit. I wish the Asus Zenbook 15" models didn't have a number pad. Vaio models look pretty nice, I'd seriously consider the Vaio Z over a 13" MBP.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  I've been looking at different manufacturers. GIGABYTE Aero 14 seems to be nice in sub 15" range. It even has Nvidia 1060 in it and a large battery.
Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
I'm still happy with the high-end Lenovo ThinkPads (currently using a W541) - not as awesome as in the early 2000s but still very solid, well-built, great keyboards, matte screens (but check if you mind this, I'm not sure if every model has them) and with trackpoint, which becomes a must when you get used to it.

S_A_P 10y ago

I'm pretty disappointed by the new mbp and the state of Mac in general for several reasons. I've made pretty significant investments in the Mac ecosystem. I bought a semi pro sound card(uad Apollo 8) tons of software audio related plugins and logic and I don't have a lot of confidence that when it's time to replace my 2014 mbp that there will be a viable Mac option to replace it with. That immediately makes my sound card useless (thunderbolt connection) and unless there's a Windows version of the plugins (most do have this) then I'm out that money as well. I'm already looking at having a dongle if I want to use the new mbp with a thunderbolt connection which feels like a hack. Maybe this seems like first world problems but I bought into Mac on the promise that they truly supported the "pro" community. It's looking more and more like Tim Cook and company have forgotten that.

spilk 10y ago
I think you probably mean Thunderbolt, or maybe Firewire, and not Lightning, yes? Lightning is the connector found on iPhones. I don't remember people complaining this much about adapters when the Firewire 800 port was a different form factor than the Firewire 400 port that came before it - most of the equipment that plugged into it was "pro" level hardware like you mention.
- S_A_P 10y ago
  Yes thank you for the correction. I will edit the parent.
koja86 10y ago
Sorry to hear that. It's when it hits the fan when abstract words like "closed", "locked" or "proprietary" suddenly get meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in
illumin8 10y ago
Wait, can't you just buy a dongle to convert from USB-c to Thunderbolt 2 and continue to use your nice (I'm jealous, personally) UAD Apollo 8 with a 2016+ MBP?

jjtheblunt 10y ago

Why the heck would anyone listen to Consumer Reports for this sort of thing?

Tempest1981 10y ago
Who else has done similar testing? This is the first article I've seen mentioning the issue -- are there others?

timemachiner 10y ago

Mine is 15", 16GB, 512G, 455 model. I'm a student and use it for programming, checking emails and browsing sites. I program in Java using Eclipse and in Python using Jupyter Notebook. I browse using Safari and keep tabs of time estimates in the Activity Monitor Energy tab. First 2-3 days I was getting 5 hour estimates. Since then it increased to 8-10 and now has increased to 14.5 hours. I keep it unplugged for 6 hours regularly and the estimates have been consistent thus far with the 14.5. I haven't kept it unplugged more than 6-7 hours but I am not afraid of it running out of juice while I'm out and about. Suits my needs as a student.

mgkimsal 10y ago
I had one for about 10 days, and do java dev (intellij/jetbrains stuff). I got 5-6 hours, then did the 10.12.2 update, and initially battery estimate went up a lot (15-16 hours initially) but it would ramp down sharply when real work was being done. I was seeing ~10% of the battery drain in an hour, meaning I probably could have done 9.5 hours of moderate work. Heavy duty dev (java/compiling, etc) I probably would have got at least 6 hours, maybe a bit more.... but I took mine back. Nice as it was, the price was just a bit hard to swallow relative to performance - was not really expecting 1% diff from 2015 model. I have a 2012 model, so it was faster than mine, but I'm looking at getting a 2015 and saving $1000.
- timemachiner 10y ago
  I'm doing to do more intensive programming on mine in the coming days after Christmas and see what hours I get. If dissatisfied I'll return it by Jan 8th for a full refund. I need an all day programming machine for school. Thanks for your input on the 2015 model.
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    There were some refurb 2015 models I wanted last night for about 4 hours, but I wasn't in a position to order right at that moment (driving, in meetings, etc). Got home, and they're gone! :/ Will keep looking, and ebay/CL generally have some decent ones now and then too. Benchmarks between 2015 and 2016 were within 1% on geekbench for most tests, and 2016 was often the slower one. Hard to justify $1000+ more for... not much more in the day to day benefit (but as you know, the 2016 is a pretty slick feeling machine, no doubt). Oh, and 6 hours on battery for heavy use is pretty good - I currently get 2-3 now, on a 2012 battery that is 1200+ cycles in. I may still go back to 2016 - we'll see. Good luck!

threefour 10y ago

Let's not forget when Consumer Reports attacked the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records. If we're looking for a signal about the MacBook Pro's success, sales numbers may be a better indicator.

bdcravens 10y ago
> ...the iPhone 4 because of the antenna issue. That model went on to set sales records. Apple also conceded the issue and gave all iPhone 4 users a free case.

spilk 10y ago

Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing. The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all. Thunderbolt 3 is backward compatible with Thunderbolt 1/2 via an adapter, but the Thunderbolt 2 adapter that Apple sells does not function identically to a Thunderbolt 2 port on previous generation Macs - e.g. you cannot plug a Mini DisplayPort display into it. Thunderbolt displays do work with it though. Also, the lower-end 12" MacBook that Apple sells with a single USB-C port is NOT a Thunderbolt 3 port, so you have to know which devices that have identical connectors will work with it. Apple makes the distinction on its peripherals by screenprinting a little Thunderbolt logo onto the cable/connector housing. The messaging was reinforced with corresponding Thunderbolt logos next to the connectors on previous iterations of the MacBooks - making it obvious that these ports were not just Mini DisplayPorts but also Thunderbolt ports - but the new 2016 models don't appear to have anything like that on the hardware. Additionally, there are USB-C cables and Thunderbolt 3 cables. Thunderbolt 3 cables are apparently higher-spec and will always work as USB-C cables, but the opposite is not necessarily true.

IBM 10y ago
In practice most people aren't going to have multiple Macbooks, and if that's you you should go to Monoprice and just get different color cables for different types.
- fpgeek 10y ago
  People? So Apple isn't interested in selling to families and couples anymore?
  - IBM 10y ago

post_break 10y ago

I have one. It has usb c. My google pixel has usb c. They don't talk, only charge. I don't understand, USB C is now a bag of hurt. Especially when there are three types of usb c cables.

heisenbit 10y ago

This is great news. Value for money is declining and someone needed to send a loud and clear message to Cupertino.

pansen 10y ago

I was getting the MBP 2016 13" a couple of days ago; best equipment you can buy in 13", 3300 EUR brutto. Before (or still) I have a MBPR 13" Late 2015, also with max RAM, max CPU; 2400 brutto until 2 months ago. That is still running on El Capitan, the new one Sierra of course. System was migrated, so simlilar software stack (besides the OS version). My typical application list looks like: Pycharm, PHPStorm (~3 projects open at a time), Vagrant, Virtualbox, Chrome with many tabs, Firefox with less tabs, minor stuff like Sublime, Terminal windows, iTunes etc. Besides the critics on keyboard (especially the arrows issue), connection ports (try to buy a good usb c - displayport cable), which i would all consider as "managable".. To me this laptop is a bad joke if I see the battery time and performance. Given my usage profile, which I think should be handled by the super expensive top model of a "premium company", this laptop does only a minimum (if at all) better performance. The base cpu usage on my older one, having all open and doing nothing ist at 9%. Same thing for the newer one is 13%. There is nothing that works obviously faster, general "snappyness" when working is subjectively worse due to wakeup delays from the OS power optimisation magic. About the battery time I can only say, that 4hours is max for me at ~80% brightness. I'm also sure that the new MBP drains battery faster, meaning has less runtime (though i cannot provide exact measurements). As a good thing to say: the display is fantastic and of course it looks nice. After less than a week this device is not worth its money and does nothing more for me than what I have for roughly 1/3 less money and more than a year old. It is sent back.

pyrophane 10y ago
It is the JetBrain software. I use IntelliJ with various language plugins. It does a lot of work in the background to provide advanced features like completion, even for dynamic languages like Python. The problem, of course, is that the new CPUs are optimized to provide better battery life under typical usage. If you've got something running in the background that is constantly re-indexing your source code, then the CPU optimizations aren't going to help you and a smaller battery is still a smaller battery. Also, a lot of that indexing can take advantage of multiple cores, so the jump to a quad-core proc as in the 15" helps more than the minor boost in clock speed is going to. I'm usually fine with a dual-core processor unless I'm either trying to do big compilations (especially in Scala) or using JetBrains IDEs. God help me if I'm trying to do both.

nilkn 10y ago

The only complaint I really have about the new MBP is the price. MBPs have always been expensive relative to the specs, and I've always been okay with that. But it seems Apple's pushing their margins up even higher and have eliminated more affordable options (e.g., a 15" model without a discrete GPU -- I personally have no need for the GPU, but really wanted the extra screen real estate). After Apple Care and taxes, I ended up dropping over $3k on my 2016 15" MBP. This makes it the most expensive laptop I've ever owned. Just a few points that might be of interest: * Battery life has legitimately been fine for me. I consistently get 8-10 hours of light work (working in the terminal and browser). Despite all the battery life complaints, this is actually the best battery life I've personally gotten on any MBP I've owned. * I love the trackpad. It's comically large, but I adapted fast, and the palm rejection has been working really well for me. * The Touch Bar makes sense and is well-implemented. It's not revolutionary and I wouldn't recommend getting the laptop because it has the touch bar. But it's a legitimate (if small) step forward in usability. It is not without its compromises (e.g., no physical escape key), but I've found I adapted to the compromises very quickly. * The form factor is incredibly portable for a 15" laptop. * The port situation isn't a big deal for me personally because I don't use this laptop as a desktop replacement and rarely have any need for the ports. * I'm fine with the keyboard. It's very satisfyingly clicky, and I can type very fast on it, just as fast as any other keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer it to more traditional keyboards; it's not a big deal to me either way.

IBM 10y ago
I think price is the only real complaint I have as well. I've only bought Macbook Airs because they were thin and light even though I wanted the power and connectivity of Macbook Pros. This is the first MBP that I want to buy. By the time I'm ready to replace my 2012 MBA I expect the price will have fallen.
234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
Agree with the price, especially being limited to 16GB of RAM. Often times I need to run a couple VMs, editor, browser, etc. etc. 16GB just isn't enough, especially with containers and VMs in the mix.

rememberlenny 10y ago

Do any MacBook Pro users like the ability to charge their machines with an external battery?

datahack 10y ago
I would love it. Unfortunately, when I talked to Apple about it at the Apple Store they said "be careful, it can void your warranty and there are a lot of poorly made batteries out there."

api 10y ago

I'm calling it the MacBook Vista. Ouch. After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy. People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they keep doing this, it will erode. Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. The ecosystem never stands still.

dashoffset 10y ago
I really hope that better "Unix with good UI" laptops will exist in the future. Right now, I'd rather buy a 2015 MBP than any of those "Dev Edition" machines.
- api 10y ago
  Over a decade of crawling on its belly at the bottom end of the market has really taken a toll on PC hardware and the whole PC ecosystem. The bundling of actual malware with PCs marks what I think is the low point. Dell's XPS machines are starting to climb out of that hole, but it'll take some resolve.
guitarbill 10y ago
> Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. Since moving to the NT kernel the underlying technology keeps getting better. But personally, I don't think the Windows UI is getting better, and the ecosystem sucks (app store, package manager, permissions system, etc). Linux desktop is awesome, but laptop is tricky. Battery life can be abysmal without tinkering, although blaming Linux for shoddy drivers isn't exactly fair. Non-Apple hardware+software always seems like a compromise, and we've been spoiled by Apple by having our cake and eating it. The most frustrating thing is that everything is a compromise now. Ironically, even though Apple is accused of not innovating anymore, I think many people would have preferred less innovation and more iteration.

SimeVidas 10y ago

R.I.P. Safari for Mac. Nobody is going to use you after this. ;-)

en4bz 10y ago

For those looking for alternatives here's a short video [1] that looks at some Windows based competitors in the same class. List below. Dell XPS 15 - http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT Asus UX501 - http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW MSI GS63 - http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf Gigabyte Aero14 - http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6 http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6 Razer Blade - http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ

rayiner 10y ago
None of which, ironically, can match the new MBP in battery life.
- en4bz 10y ago
  True, but you can get double the performance for half the price of the 2016 MBPro, a 4x perf/dollar improvement. Obviously you pay for this increase with half the battery life.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 10y ago
    The XPS 15 has the same CPU as the MacBook 15" and gets much worse battery life in the high-resolution configuration (and less battery life even with just a 1080p display). It's also not much cheaper.
    - en4bz 10y ago
      I'm talking more about the Aero 14 and the GS63. Both of which are roughly half the price and have GTX 1060s which have 2x the GPU performance.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

pnw_hazor 10y ago

I have lost faith in Apple engineering. My iPhone 6s is sketchy (e.g., lockups, shutdowns) whereas my iPhone 4s was bulletproof. And it seems the new MPBs are lame. I just bought a Samsung 9 to hold me over for a year while I wait to see if Apple can get its act together.

Razengan 10y ago

The new MacBooks have still outsold all other competitors, apparently: https://intelligence.slice.com/apples-macbook-pro-launch/ https://intelligence.slice.com/apples-macbook-pro-launch/

Eric_WVGG 10y ago
I dunno who Slice is, but Phil Schiller claims "our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before." http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macbook-pro-has-more-orders-from-apple-than-any-other-pro-model-ever http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/phil-schiller-new-...

karim79 10y ago

Just a random and wild thought: I wonder if the inconsistency in battery life might be related to variances in ambient noise levels in the test environment. Could it be Siri listening to stuff when it shouldn't be by way of a bug or something else? I have a maxed out 15 TB MBPro and the battery seems just fine and in line with what I expect. I love it: keyboard, screen, build quality, performance. I have literally worked with every single previous generation of the Pro and this one feels the best. Happy customer here.

phaed 10y ago

Glad you found your way out of the Apple user cognitive dissonance. Not the direction most gave gone, It's not easy to go full-retard on something like this.

dang 10y ago
Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 and marked it off-topic.

DoodleBuggy 10y ago

Source minus the ads ads ads ads Business Insider ads ads ads ads regurgitation: http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/ http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...

ronyeh 10y ago

For people who want to improve their TouchBar experience, BetterTouchTool allows you to add custom buttons to your touch bar, accessible globally. I've been using it for weeks with great success. You can even change the buttons that show up when you have alt depressed, etc.

yoplait_ 10y ago

what a load of bollocks

dang 10y ago
Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13245862 and marked it off-topic.

davidf18 10y ago

This very thorough review: See under "Battery Runtime" "Even though the battery capacity was reduced by almost 25 % compared to the predecessor, Apple still managed to improve the overall runtimes with the 76-Wh battery. Our WiFi test determines an advantage of 130 minutes, so little more than two hours." [1] If you read actual users of the 2016 rMBP in this thread as well as reports on macrumors forum you'll see that there are a number of people who report good battery times and even exceeding those of the 2015 machine. I would question the Consumer Reports review process given the review cited above, the reports in this thread and that in the macrumors forum. [1] http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Late-2016-2-6-GHz-i7-Notebook-Review.185254.0.html http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Late-2016-...

crazygringo 10y ago

> The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. It worked for nearly twenty hours, when advertised for just "up to 10"? Presumably whatever bugs led to 4.5 hours can be fixed in software updates (occasionally I find my Mac running at full-CPU due to some boneheaded OSX process). But if my new laptop has a best-case scenario of nearly 20 hours (and not "minimal brightness while not running anything")... then that's the best recommendation I've heard yet.

datahack 10y ago

I have a 13" macbook pro touchbar (~2500 bucks with warranty!). I've had it for about 4.5-5 weeks or so. I LOVE my Apple laptops, and have NO problem paying a premium for them. They have been excellent, and every member of my family is outfitted wth an Apple computer. The IT distraction time since I switched everyone has been pretty much NIL. I took it on a trip that was 16 days, or I would have returned it (14 day return policy). Now I'm thinking about dumping it on eBay. Here is why: * The battery life for a developer is terrible. I consistently get between 3-4 hours of battery life when developing, at best. It's probably 2 hours less than my old 2013 Macbook Pro 15. * The touchbar is not an improvement. I'm constantly hitting back in browsers as my hand is large and brushes against the bar. It has also crashed on me multiple times when watching long videos, which means I can't mute or adjust the volume when someone calls (that's when I find out it's dusted itself). My experience is that it does a lot of accidental stuff because it exposes a lot of functionality that normally requires explicit input as casual input, so zooming around youtube videos and losing your spot, triggering Siri (yes, I turn it off eventually), accidentally muting with a simple touch, etc, are all super easy mistakes to make. I preferred it when my machine's behavior was predictable. The major issue is that thus far there is no upside for this downside — there are no killer features for the bar (even the volume, rather than giving you more granular controls, uses the old sound register stop points rather than moving to a 99% scale as would be obviously intuitive given the interface — just plain dumb design from Apple honestly). Similar to my experiences with Siri, it's not making my life better. * It's not faster in practical applications, and in fact takes a while to recover compared to my old laptop (a lot of waiting to type on the login screen), though it's not particular noticeable. * The arrow keys are utterly terrible. For a developer, they are a fail. Why Apple needed to kill those essential buttons (for games, dev, etc) is beyond my comprehension. The keyboard is definitely better, but the arrow key situation is a mess. * I have to keep my phone plugged in all the time, which means I have a dongle on my laptop pretty much permanently. This is dumb. * The loss of the magsafe adapter has already caused my laptop to scoot right off the couch twice when animals and kids are around. Why? Why would you kill this and especially go back to a port than can be damaged with basic use? This just violates common sense. What is better: * The screen is sweet. I absolutely love it. * The keyboard is awesome for touch typists. * The touch pad is really the best I've ever used. * The dark grey color is attractive. I've also heard rumors that Apple has merged their macOS team into their main engineering / iOS teams or some such. Not what I wanted to hear, and totally not the direction that would keep me loyal to the company. Overall, it's worse. And the features that have been added do not redeem the laptop (which is totally what almost every Apple device has done for me — I was stunned). This is the first time it's genuinely a step in the wrong direction. Though I haven't seen any discussion of it, I believe Apple made many of the mistakes it has made with the Apple watch on the Macbook Pro, but that may be because Apple added an Apple Watch to the Macbook Pro. It's solving problems I don't have, and therefore providing me with products that don't possess essential utility and therefore don't meaningfully improve my life or provide me with a "sense of better being," which is what graduated design at it's best can do. This is a big, big mistake, and exactly how Apple lost it's way the first time around.

ArlenBales 10y ago

I just got my new Macbook Pro 15" a few days ago. Keyboard will take some time getting used to, but I'm still able to average 130 WPM on 10fastfingers.com. The trackpad is probably going to take the longest for me to adapt to. Not the palm rejection, that works fine for me. Rather the tactile feedback of it is so different from my 2012 Macbook Pro. It's very shallow and I feel like it should be used more like a touchscreen click (single tap to left click) rather than placing my finger on it and pressing into it, as the shallowness is weird to me. I have it on medium-depth click right. Battery life isn't too concerning to me since I'm mostly plugged in, but I will test it this weekend when I'm on the road and hope it's at least 6 hours. Also, why are all media outlets reporting on what Consumer Reports has to say? Why is Consumer Reports regarded so highly? Media outlets don't report on what CNET or ArsTechnica have to say about the new MacBook Pro. It reminds me of media outlets reporting on what the BBB.org has to say.

wolfgke 10y ago

Could the problem with the battery life be that Apple has the same power management issues for the Skylake processor (which is used on recent MacBook Pros) under OS X that plagued Microsoft for its Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 and also causes/caused trouble under Linux (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html)? BTW: Is this problem finally fixed under Linux?

outworlder 10y ago

Good. The error of the MacBook Pro is the 'Pro' part. It's supposedly being marketed to professionals, but optimizing for one thing only, which is thinness. I don't think anyone ever asked for the "old" MacBook Pro to be thinner. Maybe a beefier CPU, maybe a GPU worth something, maybe more battery life. Or more ports. But thinner? They used to have a very good product for that, and that's the Air, which is now neglected. Apple's product lineup is a mess. Like the time after Steve got kicked out. Disclaimer: typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro.

shanusmagnus 10y ago
I'm so sick of exactly this. I can deal with a few tradeoffs for thin-ness, with the idea that maybe it's Good For Me indirectly by moving the industry to adapt to a thinner, more mobile vision. But compromising on literally everything else about the computer just to get a bit thinner (worse keyboard, smaller battery, worse graphics, less memory -- things I actually care about) is infuriating.

omarforgotpwd 10y ago

Mine works fine. I love it.

dillondoyle 10y ago

I might as well shovel on my very negative experience, I want to switch but no one can make hardware like this... PLEASE someone prove me wrong with a link. GOOD: - screen is amazingly bright and fantastic. - sound noticeably better, even using the same headphones which does not make any sense, so I think that has got to be placebo? The Horribleness: - the mouse touch pad is so big on my 15" that my new default hand position on home has to hover and hands angled down and in. i'm resting like a few inches below my wrist on the edge of the machine, which is actually pretty sharp. If I go back to a better more relaxed home position my palms touch the touch pad randomly and when typing it jumps and clicks all around. - I think Apple's dedication to security is mostly to blame. 1) went to apple store, they didn't have cases when the announced at end of Oct right? 2) had to get a usb c to usb female to use my external drives. The store only had usb 2.0 not 2.1, so my hd is half as fast as 3 year old laptop 3) - For instance did OS look at the machine? To turn down sound, I have to touch bar. In some apps it has the normal three sounds buttons. In finder it doesn't and I've found some other times when I'm working and listening to music and need to turn it down it sucks: the touchbar might not even be lit, so that's one touch. Then you can either touch mute or what looks like lower volume, which actually opens a slider two inches to the left. The slider seems to be 0-100 but on screen it's the same old sound overlay with 15 clicks or whatever, and I can definitely move volume in between the clicks. Also while I was type that sentence both numbers accidentally hit the touch bar and did weird shit. 4) could go on and on, ESP the iphone thing. I get wireless is the future but come on... 5) I will never enable siri or the finger print. i was able to remove siri on finder, but it still pops up in the right for most other apps who haven't made integrations yet. 6) os seems to sleep or hibernate but then when logging in it refreshes all the apps? like all 20 chrome tabs reload? maybe there's some setting I don't have but that has never happened and is very annoying. And 1/10 times I miss backspace it hits siri or whatever shit is on the bar. 7) no space above up and down key is the WORST. gamers are fucked. even my career using photoshop and writing shit is slowed down until I get muscle memory. In the past everything has been so seamless, ready to go. But I think Apple is more concerned about a leak about the new millimeter they shaved off than get everyone working on the same team and actually using this product, with os, with iphone. (plus these keys are really loud when you type somewhat fast, to the annoyance of my boyfriend trying to sleep next to me). I can't WAIT until we get fast enough reliable internet everywhere so I can just stream a VPC in Amazon. Spin up a few Teslas when crunching a huge ML dataset or video project, no need to upgrade. AND Apple could do away with everything! So thin! Or quadruple the battery! That's the future I want, even if Apple controls the DC and my VPC.

disposablezero 10y ago

No more MBPs for me unless Apple makes a significant U-turn. The unupgradability was the final straw. MBP 13" non-Retina mid-2012, 2x 960 GiB SSD, 16 GiB RAM