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A Design Defect Is Breaking iPhone 6 Pluses

327 points by sorenso 10y ago

pjc50 10y ago
It's (speculated to be) flexing PCBs under BGA chips again. This is a serious problem when making devices thinner: they become more flexible, but the joints are not flexible, so after a while you get a crack all the way across a joint and it either becomes intermittent or capacitively coupled. A decade ago I had a white plastic-bodied Macbook which developed a similar fault in the graphics. But it's not just Apple, the famous "red ring of death" was a similar problem induced by thermal cycling rather than physical bending.
- Mtinie 10y ago
  Presuming that manufacturers aren't about to stop trying to make thinner and thinner devices... Is this class of issues correctable (to a degree) with a change in the design of those components -- for example, proactively splitting the board at the point that the fissure is likely to appear and coupling it in a flexible way -- or is this a materials science concern where we need to find new methods to build the components' substrates so they are innately flexible?
  - pjc50 10y ago
    You can't split the board, it's the solder joints on the surface that are the problem. So far as I know there is no flexible soldering technology, and creating one would be pretty extreme materials science. (To see the problem, place a coin on a credit card and bend the card - note that the coin no longer touches across its whole surface) The normal solution is to make the PCB stiffer (thicker, or invent something better than FR4), or to make the overall casing stiffer. Either by changing materials or changing the aspect ratio. Fundamentally a long flat thin object is going to be bendy or brittle. The older iPhones that were smaller with glass front and back were an extremely good design from this point of view.
    - kalleboo 10y ago
      > Fundamentally a long flat thin object is going to be bendy or brittle I think GPs idea was to make the PCB no longer long, but have two smaller PCBs with flat flex between them. Then when the phone bends, the PCBs wont bend but let the flat flex take the stress instead. > (To see the problem, place a coin on a credit card and bend the card - note that the coin no longer touches across its whole surface) Now cut the card in half and connect it with half a cm of tape and bend it - the two halves will be flat and you'll get a V shape instead. Put the coin on one side and no problem. I guess it depends on how much open space is in the phone or if the whole PCB is completely flush with the bent casing.
      - Waterluvian 10y ago
        But you'd have to make the hundreds of broken connections between the boards you split. So isn't that a really delicate ribbon cable?
        talsit 10y ago
        Not really, you do the split according to functionality, not just a straight split. CPU/memory on one side, WiFi/BT/Baseband on the other.
        quantumhobbit 10y ago
        So something like Google's project Aria that they just cancelled with separate modules for each function. Only not user serviceable.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Like any phone. They all have separate components and boards connected with ribbon cables. You can see the iPhone 6+'s various ones here: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/DSCkX6EfcARJYOHa.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/DSCkX6EfcARJYOHa.h... The proposal is just to do a little more of that.
- lloeki 10y ago
  > It's (speculated to be) flexing PCBs under BGA chips again. Also, operational heat (from SoC, battery, whatevs...) can repetitively flex boards ever so slightly as it heats up and cools down, and on the long term will cause BGA chips to lose contact over time. That's what famously happened on the Xbox 360, but it more silently happened on numerous other devices too. BGA is a necessity nowadays due to pin density, but it's a tech that's incredibly easy to ruin at the slightest design or manufacturing mistake.
- celticninja 10y ago
  except with the RROD Microsoft admitted the issue and provided a replacement or repair service. Apple are just ignoring the issue and leaving the customer suck up the cost and hassle.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    .. admitted the issue eventually. There were a lot of people home-reflowing their xboxes, with varying degrees of success.
  - marksweston 10y ago
    Are they? My 20 month old (i.e. out of warranty and with no Applecare policy) iphone 6+ started showing the symptoms a week and a half ago. The "Genius" at the Apple Store immediately recognised the symptoms and processed a free replacement (refurbished) phone without any prompting or negotiation on my part. So while it's true that they are staying very quiet about it in public, it does seem that knowledge of the problem and a free replacement policy has been communicated within the company.
    - celticninja 10y ago
      Did you read the article? Considering the number of phones they talk about it is certainly not widespread or even Apple policy to replace these phones if out of warranty. Perhaps a timely reminder than the plural of anecdote is not data.
    - celticninja 10y ago
      Did you read the article? Considering the number of phones they talk about it is certainly not widespread or even Apple policy to replace these phones if out of warranty. Perhaps a timely reminder than the plural of anecdote is not data.
    - danieldk 10y ago
      Note: if you are in the EU, settle for nothing less than a new phone (rather than refurbished). There was recently a lawsuit in the Netherlands where someone sued Apple after receiving a refurbished phone after replacement under warranty [1]. She won the case: https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-garantie/ https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-garantie/ The judge based his verdict on a verdict of the European Court of Justice [2], so it's likely that the outcome would be the same in other EU countries. [1] 20 months would still fall under warranty in the EU. [2] http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404/06 http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404...
- rwmj 10y ago
  It's reminiscent of the iBook G4 problems with cracking RoHS solder (caused by heat, not bending). Apple denied up them until the National Consumer Agency of Denmark investigated and produced this excellent report: https://web.archive.org/web/20071021235338/http://www.forbrug.dk/fileadmin/Filer/PDF/ENGF959-orig.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20071021235338/http://www.forbru... It happened to my computer. Apple delayed and denied and charged me, but wouldn't fix the problem. Eventually I gave up, but I've never bought an Apple device since that failure.
  - abakker 10y ago
    Thermal cycling issue in macbook pro 17, 2011. After 3 years, I had to put the logic board into the oven for 10 minutes, ever month. After a year of that apple finally issued a service bulletin and replaced that board.
    - chenster 10y ago
      I used a hair dryer on high and that worked really well until Apple issues official replacement.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  ROHS/lead free solder is a huge part of the problem too.
- captainmuon 10y ago
  It's not even just consumer electronics. I work on a particle physics experiment, and some sensors we use to detect particles are ball-bonded to the readout electronics. It turns out that thermal cycling between say -20 and 20 °C (operational vs. room temperature) a couple of times the balls break and we loose sensitivity in part of the sensor. It seems people hate these ball bonds and want to move away from them. One alternative is wirebonds, which have their own problems. They are pretty fragile and time consuming to set. I've also learned today that they start to vibrate and break if nearby wires carry a signal at their resonance frequency, which is pretty crazy. The golden alternative would be to build everything (sensor + electronics) from one monolithic wafer. Instead of making a silicon sensor, some silicon ASICs, and joining them with a PCB, you'd directly put the electronics in the sensor and make it one big CMOS circuit. However it will take a couple of years until we can do that.
pawadu 10y ago
Remember "bendgate"? It turns out that while the bending may not be big enough to be permanent or visible it may still be enough to cause a chip to loosen from the PCB. Louis Rossmann has a great video on the subject edit: Rossmann's video is already in the article, so enjoy this other great Rossman rant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU
- akgoel 10y ago
  i had this happen to my 6+ a year while under warranty. The Apple Genius Bar I took it to had seen this problem before and knew to twist it to get it working. He made sure it was backed up to iCloud and then gave me a replacement. This new phone also got the gray bar of death after 3 weeks. I speculate that I was bending the phone in my pocket. I had gained 20 pounds in six months due to job stress and suddenly my pants were tight and my phone was stressed in my pants pocket. I bought looser pants and then lost those 20 pounds and haven't had it happen again
  - pawadu 10y ago
    According to Rossmann this can also happen if you drop the phone. In which case Apple is known to replace the screen but not fix the touch IC.
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    "Apple advises customers to lose at least 20 pounds before reporting any issues."
    - intoverflow2 10y ago
      Seen as its a Californian company and most of the execs are very cargo pants-ish I also don't think they're designing products taking into account people in other parts of the world like to wear smarter skinnier fitting clothes.
      - mwfunk 10y ago
ebbv 10y ago
This is pretty breathless reporting for iFixit. We can all draw whatever conclusions we want based on anecdotes. For example, I know a lot of people who have iPhone 6 and 6S phones and none of them have had this problem. But let's look at some numbers; the article mentions that all of these repairers see "several a week." Let's round up and say that's 4 a week, or 208 per year per repair shop. They only mention a few repair shops in the article, but lets say as part of the research they actually talked to 100 repair shops. That brings us to 20,800 iPhones having this problem per year. But of course, not everyone takes their phone to a repair shop when it has a problem like this. Let's be pessimistic and say that only 20% of people who have this problem get it repaired, and 80% throw it away. That's 104,000 iPhones having this problem per year. It's unclear to me from the article if this is affecting only iPhone 6 or also 6S, I'll assume both. Apple sold over 13 million iPhone 6S and 6S Plus in its opening weekend alone. Just from opening weekend numbers 104,000 phones with this problem is less than 1%, let alone whatever the total number of units sold over the last two years has been. I have no doubt this is an annoying and frustrating problem for the people that encounter it, but try to have some perspective.
- phelm 10y ago
  Have another look at your numbers, you have assumed that there are only 100 repair shops in the word. I would imagine this number is much higher (a google search for 'iphone micro soldering repair shop' gives 473k results)
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Right. He was underestimating to demonstrate that even a very small number of shops and iPhones/week would yield a large amount. But also we should take into context how many iPhone 6 and 6+s have been sold. The first article on a Google search comes up with Wired who is discussing numbers from Oct-Dec of last year and in that time Apple sold 75 MILLION iPhones. And I think the iPhone 6 model has only been out for a year or two, right? So even if we quadrupled the defect number per year, we'd still fall quite short of even the recent Samsung recall. Please keep in mind I'm not saying it's not a problem, just trying to help put numbers into perspective. Link to article: http://www.wired.com/2016/01/apple-sold-a-record-number-of-iphones-but-just-barely/ http://www.wired.com/2016/01/apple-sold-a-record-number-of-i...
gerbilly 10y ago
>“But the fact remains—compared to earlier iPhone models, the iPhone 6/6+ is kind of a ‘bendy’ phone. Its slim form factor and larger surface area subject the logic board within the phone to mechanical flexion pressure that no other iPhone has had to deal with[...]” Thank god they are rumoured to be making phones even slimmer then, _and_ getting rid of the headphone jack as well! Apple seems to be putting form ahead of function these days.
- manarth 10y ago
  Well, they did (apparently) address the issue in the 6S, by moving the vulnerable components, so presumably they'll have considered this issue in the next iteration. Maybe they'll even restore the metal shields over the chips. The 7 will probably just have a different set of problems to deal with.
  - valine 10y ago
    Not only that, but in the 6s they also switched to a new grade of aluminum that is significantly less prone to bending.
- xedarius 10y ago
  These days??? How quick we forget the iPhone 4 that didn't work as a phone when held due to shielding issues.
  - intoverflow2 10y ago
    Apart from that it was a great design, very user serviceable. Whole thing comes apart with just two screws, glass isn't part of the touch screen so smashed phones can be fixed for <$10 in < 10 minutes. Apple likes to bleat on about how environmentally sound they are but glueing everything together and making it disposable piece of electro-garbage just makes that whole spiel ridiculous to me.
    - collyw 10y ago
      You mean the one that they choose the most obscure pentalobe screws on the market for?
grej 10y ago
I actually had this issue show up on an iPhone6 right after the warranty period expired. I had phone support multiple times and took it in two different Apple Stores and they acted like they'd never seen the issue before. They eventually gave up (after a myriad of other fixes they had us try that didn't work) and said we'd have to get a new phone. Luckily, we had insurance on it, but it was still a $99 deductible. It's very frustrating to learn that this problem is quite a lot more common than they let on.
- robg 10y ago
  Likely affects every 6+ so they are trying to get by without a recall unless there's some user handling that's the cause. Luckily in Apple store my swap was under warranty and they tried to run tests, but didn't seem successful so they are largely trusting customers. First swap took about 30 mins, second took 15 mins. They are clearly aware it could affect some phones, but they didn't come right out and say it. They just acted as if they've heard the problem many times before.
- whatok 10y ago
  My wife had the issue, it stopped for a while, and then popped up again right after the warranty ran out. She needed a replacement ASAP (otherwise I would have shopped it around at multiple stores) and they refused to acknowledge that it was a known defect.
chris_wot 10y ago
This is going to cost Apple a lot of money in Australia. The average length of a phone contract here is about two years, and guess what? Courts have ruled that under the Australian Consumer Competition Law that's pretty much what is considered a reasonable timeframe for a phone to last. And Apple are scare shitless of defying them lest they but hit with another record fine by the ACCC.
lukeholder 10y ago
I had this same issue with my iPhone 6 Plus screen not responding to touch as this article explains. Took it into Apple in Perth City (Western Australia) and they replaced the iPhone on the spot with a brand new refurbished. This article leads with a story about apple denying it to a customer, but I had my issue resolved within 25 minutes including running a last minute icloud backup. Apples legendary support is real.
- robg 10y ago
  Me too, relatively quick swap if under one year warranty. And then I had it happen again with the replacement device within days. The second swap was even faster as I explained I had the problem with the last phone too. The Apple store reps clearly knew what was up, tried to run tests the first time, the second time they just trusted me as I knew all the symptoms and the phone was only days used.
- josho 10y ago
  The issue is a design defect--Apple designed a part that has a high failure rate. The article is implying that it is an error in Apple's mfg process and should be fixed even on out of warranty phones.
- ximeng 10y ago
  Maybe in some locations for some issues. My 6se bent after a few weeks at weak point near volume control and was offered chance to buy refurbed model at half price of original. Design fault in my opinion but that doesn't count for anything much.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- pluma 10y ago
  Wait. The device was within warranty and they gave you a "refurbished" (i.e. not new) iPhone as replacement? I'm so glad this is blatantly illegal in various countries. They sold you a faulty brand new product, so they must give you a brand new replacement if they can't fix the defect on the device they sold you. This is akin to telling the waiter there's a hair in your soup and getting a new soup that was returned by another customer but has since been re-heated and de-haired.
tyfon 10y ago
"but said Apple doesn’t recognize it as an issue" Oh, I am so glad we have laws in my country to prevent asshole companies from doing things like this. Goods that is "expected to last long" has a five year mandatory warranty here and mobiles are included. The rest has two years. It doesn't matter if they recognize it as an issue, the phone is broken period.
- davidiach 10y ago
  There's no free lunch. What are the trade-offs? Do you pay more for the same devices than in other countries?
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    This extended warranty thing is common throughout the EU (in the UK it's 6 years for example). In the UK we pay more than the US for most things but it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences.
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
      In the last couple of years the Sale of Goods Act protections were weakened as part of bringing us into line with Europe. It's now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act which although clearer gives fewer rights to refund from the seller. Note it's the retailer rather than manufacturer who is liable, so we have much more confidence that what we buy is "of merchantable quality", safe and legal to sell. Quite a number of HN threads have made this advantage clear.
      - k-mcgrady 10y ago
        Yes it's manufacturer for the first year (or two possibly) and after that it falls to the retailer.
    - sbuk 10y ago
      "..it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences" Generally it's down to VAT @ 20% and import duties, with some exchange rate padding. Example: Apple iPhone SE is £359 in the UK and $399 in the US. As of 15:00 on 06/09, the $399 is ~£298. Add 20% VAT and you have ~£358. EDIT: Exchange rates play a big part.
y04nn 10y ago
Note that in Europe, whatever Apple says, you have a 2 years warranty for this kind of problem. Also, do the chip really need a replacement, or a simple reflow would work?
- zspitzer 10y ago
  In Australia, under the Australian Consumer Law (2011), goods must be fit for purpose and there aren't limits on warranties http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/...
- pluma 10y ago
  I'm not even sure how they would try to argue against it. "Yes, the phone developed a fault under typical use within the warranty period and yes, a lot of other customers are having the same problem, but" ...? Apple devices are luxury goods sold at a high premium. You expect that stuff to withstand at least the same everyday handling as their competitors' products in the same market segment.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    Just because something is obvious doesn't mean they won't try to argue against it. Look at the "holding the phone wrong" debacle
- raihansaputra 10y ago
  It's said in the article that while it would fix it, but the problem tends to come back with reflow instead of replacing the chips.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    And the use of Lead-free solder only makes the problem worse (which doesn't mean it was perfect in the first place)
- snowwrestler 10y ago
y04nn 10y ago
Note that in Europe, whatever Apple says, you have a 2 years warranty for this kind of problem. Also, do the chip really need a replacement, or a simple reflow would work?
intoverflow2 10y ago
This really has been one of the poorest Apple designs in a long time. Can't believe it's likely to stick around for another year.
tempodox 10y ago
They will say, “don't hold it that way” as long as we let them. A class action suit sounds reasonable. Apple clearly have to work on their ability to defeat the laws of Physics before their devices become fully magical.
pmarreck 10y ago
Happened to mine. I got a free swap to a 6S+.
akerro 10y ago
Have there been any iPhone without "design defect"? Does any one think "design defect" is not made by accident since Apple fights everyone who tried to fix their iPhone on their own?
- mikeash 10y ago
  The 4 had the "you're holding it wrong" antenna. The 6+ is too bendy. What else has there been?
  - RKearney 10y ago
    Didn't the camera lens on the 5 or 5S cause purple lens flares to appear in photos? I love my iPhone, just trying to answer your question.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Looks like! http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-occurs-because-youre-holding-your-iphone-5-wrong-apple-says/ http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-oc... Don't know how I missed that one, maybe because it's not as serious, but I'd say it still counts. I like my iPhone too, but I am curious what other problems are out there. Seems like they've been pretty solid for the most part, but I say that out of potential cluelessness, not defensiveness.
  - shinratdr 10y ago
    The iPhone 5 black paint chipping problem, the iPhone 5 sleep/wake button failure, the iPhone 5 battery problem. The bending issue extends to the regular 6 as well, I've encountered multiple devices in the wild that have it. That's about it though. I would also argue that all of these issues are more isolated than reports make it seem. No doubt, they are all grounds for a good extended warranty program at the very least but they aren't dangerous, recall-worthy or a case where all devices are affected. Just a significant enough number that if it occurs, it should be a free repair or replacement. For a quick glance at all the recent acknowledged design flaws Apple has copped to, this page is a useful resource: https://www.apple.com/ca/support/exchange_repair/ https://www.apple.com/ca/support/exchange_repair/
packetized 10y ago
Apple definitely recognizes this as an issue, because I've had three 6+s replaced under warranty (not AppleCare) for this issue in the past six months.
- devopsproject 10y ago
  key word: under warranty Those who expect to use their iPhones more than 12 months are getting shafted
  - packetized 10y ago
    Yet, it took nearly 18 months for this to manifest itself before I replaced it for the first time in April - again, under warranty.
hourislate 10y ago
It seems one of the solutions to this problem is not sticking your iphone into a back pocket of your skinny jeans. I constantly see girls sticking an iphone into the back pocket of their pants that are so tight you wonder how they even got it in there. Then they sit down with the damn phone still in there. I am surprised it doesn't snap in half. I typically carry my phone or keep it in my front pocket removing it before I sit down in fear of bending it. It's not a wallet, it's a delicate piece of electronics that requires care in handling.
SEJeff 10y ago
FWIW, this exact same thing happened to my wife's iPhone 6+. She took it in and told the tech the problem. He didn't even look at the phone and took her word for it. She got a new phone that day.
EA 10y ago
Happened to my launch-week iPhone 6 Plus. Apple employees at the store were aware that phones had this issue but acted like it wasn't a problem they could treat. They treated it as a "bad screen" problem by replacing screens. After a couple of screen replacements the issue didn't go away. Ultimately, I had to pay $329.00 for a refurbished phone after they swapped out a few screens which didn't make the problem go away. There is a class action lawsuit forming: http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-defect/ http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-defect/
- dntrkv 10y ago
  I don't understand how they would make you buy a refurbished phone. Anytime I have had any issues on my iPhone, if Apple couldn't fix it, they just give me a new/refurbished phone free of charge.
- usaphp 10y ago
  How would they make you buy a refurbished phone? I recently dropped my iPhone 6s (again) and screen finally cracked, I brought it to apple - they tried to replace the screen and it did not work, so they just gave me a brand new phone for a price that I paid for screen replacement (~$140)
  - cududa 10y ago
    My understanding of the heuristics (as an owner of iPhone 6 Plus [not 6s], with many broken screens)- if there is body damage around the screen in the thin aluminum parts, you need a full replacement (the screen can't sit properly and can't seat properly). If there's no body damage, they replace the screen. If the replaced screen still doesn't pass calibration, you get a refurbed phone
Joky 10y ago
"Over time, as the phone flexes or twists slightly during normal use" I don't flex or twist my phone, I wonder what is "normal use"...
- SlashmanX 10y ago
  Carrying it in your jeans' pocket?
  - Joky 10y ago
    Front pocket all the time. It'd hurt if I was flexing it there...
curiousgal 10y ago
Apple think 5-year-old computers are for suckers so why wouldn't they systematically make their phones last shortly.
givinguflac 10y ago
I agree it sucks they aren't just covering it for people. However, I have a launch 6+ that I've beat the crap out of and sat on tons of times. It has not bent even a little and I'm a big person. I've also had no touch screen issues. Obviously YMMV but I've literally stepped on the thing by accident, dropped it down a pile of rocks at the beach, and other unintended abuse with no issues at all.
mangeletti 10y ago
I wonder why this is being flagged (moved like 15 positions down in 3 minutes). @dang - is worth looking into whether there is a pattern to the flagging of this post (i.e., IP addresses from a certain company in Cupertino, pattern of other negative Apple PR being flagged by the same users, etc.)?
thecosas 10y ago
Update on the first article: http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-going-away/ http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-going-away/
jokoon 10y ago
I recently bought a 80 euros Android, 5.5", quad core, 1gb ram, real GPS, 8gb space, 1280 horizontal resolution. I can break 5 of those and still have more money than if i bought an apple equivalent. I'm posting this on a 60 euros android i bought 2 years ago.
- usaphp 10y ago
  What point are you trying to make? My friend just bought a $900 android phone which has been recalled a day after he bought it...
  - jokoon 10y ago
    I'm really skeptical about justifying such price. It is literally 10 times more expensive, and I'm curious if the phone is really 10 times better, or if there are power users who really get something out of paying that much more. I mean the technologies inside it are the same, the specs are higher, sure, but I don't think it's worth that much. That goes for the price of the latest, top notch CPU or GPUs. 1 year or 2 years later, the price has dropped significantly. So either it's cutting edge patents, or that there are many people ready to pay for a phone that won't the latest one in 6 months. The point I'm trying to make? Like for everything, top of the line products exist, and just like you said, those are not shielded from defects, despite their price. Price is not synonym of quality, performance of durability. 90% of the stuff you find in an expensive phone are the same. My point is that despite the price of the iPhone, it's not really worth its price.
Animats 10y ago
This is inept design. If Apple wants to make devices so thin that they flex, they have to make them more rigid where necessary and allow for more flexing. There are true flexible PCBs, ones with parts on them, not just wiring harnesses.[1] This isn't the first product where Apple has had this problem. It's embarrassing, or ought to be. (I don't have this problem; I own a Cat phone (yes, Caterpillar Tractor) which can be run over by a truck [2][3] and still work.) [1] http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-PCB http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-PCB [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
thespace123 10y ago
Wow, didn't know this was widespread! Thanks for the tip! Anyway I turn mine on and off with the left button until it goes away. Hope that little tip helps and I hope the issue doesn't get worse
thespace123 10y ago
Wow, didn't know this was widespread! Thanks for the tip! Anyway I turn mine on and off with the left button until it goes away. Hope that little tip helps and I hope the issue doesn't get worse

327 points by sorenso 10y ago

pjc50 10y ago

It's (speculated to be) flexing PCBs under BGA chips again. This is a serious problem when making devices thinner: they become more flexible, but the joints are not flexible, so after a while you get a crack all the way across a joint and it either becomes intermittent or capacitively coupled. A decade ago I had a white plastic-bodied Macbook which developed a similar fault in the graphics. But it's not just Apple, the famous "red ring of death" was a similar problem induced by thermal cycling rather than physical bending.

Mtinie 10y ago
Presuming that manufacturers aren't about to stop trying to make thinner and thinner devices... Is this class of issues correctable (to a degree) with a change in the design of those components -- for example, proactively splitting the board at the point that the fissure is likely to appear and coupling it in a flexible way -- or is this a materials science concern where we need to find new methods to build the components' substrates so they are innately flexible?
- pjc50 10y ago
  You can't split the board, it's the solder joints on the surface that are the problem. So far as I know there is no flexible soldering technology, and creating one would be pretty extreme materials science. (To see the problem, place a coin on a credit card and bend the card - note that the coin no longer touches across its whole surface) The normal solution is to make the PCB stiffer (thicker, or invent something better than FR4), or to make the overall casing stiffer. Either by changing materials or changing the aspect ratio. Fundamentally a long flat thin object is going to be bendy or brittle. The older iPhones that were smaller with glass front and back were an extremely good design from this point of view.
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    > Fundamentally a long flat thin object is going to be bendy or brittle I think GPs idea was to make the PCB no longer long, but have two smaller PCBs with flat flex between them. Then when the phone bends, the PCBs wont bend but let the flat flex take the stress instead. > (To see the problem, place a coin on a credit card and bend the card - note that the coin no longer touches across its whole surface) Now cut the card in half and connect it with half a cm of tape and bend it - the two halves will be flat and you'll get a V shape instead. Put the coin on one side and no problem. I guess it depends on how much open space is in the phone or if the whole PCB is completely flush with the bent casing.
    - Waterluvian 10y ago
      But you'd have to make the hundreds of broken connections between the boards you split. So isn't that a really delicate ribbon cable?
      - talsit 10y ago
        Not really, you do the split according to functionality, not just a straight split. CPU/memory on one side, WiFi/BT/Baseband on the other.
        quantumhobbit 10y ago
        So something like Google's project Aria that they just cancelled with separate modules for each function. Only not user serviceable.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Like any phone. They all have separate components and boards connected with ribbon cables. You can see the iPhone 6+'s various ones here: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/DSCkX6EfcARJYOHa.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/DSCkX6EfcARJYOHa.h... The proposal is just to do a little more of that.
lloeki 10y ago
> It's (speculated to be) flexing PCBs under BGA chips again. Also, operational heat (from SoC, battery, whatevs...) can repetitively flex boards ever so slightly as it heats up and cools down, and on the long term will cause BGA chips to lose contact over time. That's what famously happened on the Xbox 360, but it more silently happened on numerous other devices too. BGA is a necessity nowadays due to pin density, but it's a tech that's incredibly easy to ruin at the slightest design or manufacturing mistake.
celticninja 10y ago
except with the RROD Microsoft admitted the issue and provided a replacement or repair service. Apple are just ignoring the issue and leaving the customer suck up the cost and hassle.
- pjc50 10y ago
  .. admitted the issue eventually. There were a lot of people home-reflowing their xboxes, with varying degrees of success.
- marksweston 10y ago
  Are they? My 20 month old (i.e. out of warranty and with no Applecare policy) iphone 6+ started showing the symptoms a week and a half ago. The "Genius" at the Apple Store immediately recognised the symptoms and processed a free replacement (refurbished) phone without any prompting or negotiation on my part. So while it's true that they are staying very quiet about it in public, it does seem that knowledge of the problem and a free replacement policy has been communicated within the company.
  - celticninja 10y ago
    Did you read the article? Considering the number of phones they talk about it is certainly not widespread or even Apple policy to replace these phones if out of warranty. Perhaps a timely reminder than the plural of anecdote is not data.
  - celticninja 10y ago
    Did you read the article? Considering the number of phones they talk about it is certainly not widespread or even Apple policy to replace these phones if out of warranty. Perhaps a timely reminder than the plural of anecdote is not data.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Note: if you are in the EU, settle for nothing less than a new phone (rather than refurbished). There was recently a lawsuit in the Netherlands where someone sued Apple after receiving a refurbished phone after replacement under warranty [1]. She won the case: https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-garantie/ https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-garantie/ The judge based his verdict on a verdict of the European Court of Justice [2], so it's likely that the outcome would be the same in other EU countries. [1] 20 months would still fall under warranty in the EU. [2] http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404/06 http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404...
rwmj 10y ago
It's reminiscent of the iBook G4 problems with cracking RoHS solder (caused by heat, not bending). Apple denied up them until the National Consumer Agency of Denmark investigated and produced this excellent report: https://web.archive.org/web/20071021235338/http://www.forbrug.dk/fileadmin/Filer/PDF/ENGF959-orig.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20071021235338/http://www.forbru... It happened to my computer. Apple delayed and denied and charged me, but wouldn't fix the problem. Eventually I gave up, but I've never bought an Apple device since that failure.
- abakker 10y ago
  Thermal cycling issue in macbook pro 17, 2011. After 3 years, I had to put the logic board into the oven for 10 minutes, ever month. After a year of that apple finally issued a service bulletin and replaced that board.
  - chenster 10y ago
    I used a hair dryer on high and that worked really well until Apple issues official replacement.
jacquesm 10y ago
ROHS/lead free solder is a huge part of the problem too.
captainmuon 10y ago
It's not even just consumer electronics. I work on a particle physics experiment, and some sensors we use to detect particles are ball-bonded to the readout electronics. It turns out that thermal cycling between say -20 and 20 °C (operational vs. room temperature) a couple of times the balls break and we loose sensitivity in part of the sensor. It seems people hate these ball bonds and want to move away from them. One alternative is wirebonds, which have their own problems. They are pretty fragile and time consuming to set. I've also learned today that they start to vibrate and break if nearby wires carry a signal at their resonance frequency, which is pretty crazy. The golden alternative would be to build everything (sensor + electronics) from one monolithic wafer. Instead of making a silicon sensor, some silicon ASICs, and joining them with a PCB, you'd directly put the electronics in the sensor and make it one big CMOS circuit. However it will take a couple of years until we can do that.

pawadu 10y ago

Remember "bendgate"? It turns out that while the bending may not be big enough to be permanent or visible it may still be enough to cause a chip to loosen from the PCB. Louis Rossmann has a great video on the subject edit: Rossmann's video is already in the article, so enjoy this other great Rossman rant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU

akgoel 10y ago
i had this happen to my 6+ a year while under warranty. The Apple Genius Bar I took it to had seen this problem before and knew to twist it to get it working. He made sure it was backed up to iCloud and then gave me a replacement. This new phone also got the gray bar of death after 3 weeks. I speculate that I was bending the phone in my pocket. I had gained 20 pounds in six months due to job stress and suddenly my pants were tight and my phone was stressed in my pants pocket. I bought looser pants and then lost those 20 pounds and haven't had it happen again
- pawadu 10y ago
  According to Rossmann this can also happen if you drop the phone. In which case Apple is known to replace the screen but not fix the touch IC.
- jschwartzi 10y ago
  "Apple advises customers to lose at least 20 pounds before reporting any issues."
  - intoverflow2 10y ago
    Seen as its a Californian company and most of the execs are very cargo pants-ish I also don't think they're designing products taking into account people in other parts of the world like to wear smarter skinnier fitting clothes.
    - mwfunk 10y ago

ebbv 10y ago

This is pretty breathless reporting for iFixit. We can all draw whatever conclusions we want based on anecdotes. For example, I know a lot of people who have iPhone 6 and 6S phones and none of them have had this problem. But let's look at some numbers; the article mentions that all of these repairers see "several a week." Let's round up and say that's 4 a week, or 208 per year per repair shop. They only mention a few repair shops in the article, but lets say as part of the research they actually talked to 100 repair shops. That brings us to 20,800 iPhones having this problem per year. But of course, not everyone takes their phone to a repair shop when it has a problem like this. Let's be pessimistic and say that only 20% of people who have this problem get it repaired, and 80% throw it away. That's 104,000 iPhones having this problem per year. It's unclear to me from the article if this is affecting only iPhone 6 or also 6S, I'll assume both. Apple sold over 13 million iPhone 6S and 6S Plus in its opening weekend alone. Just from opening weekend numbers 104,000 phones with this problem is less than 1%, let alone whatever the total number of units sold over the last two years has been. I have no doubt this is an annoying and frustrating problem for the people that encounter it, but try to have some perspective.

phelm 10y ago
Have another look at your numbers, you have assumed that there are only 100 repair shops in the word. I would imagine this number is much higher (a google search for 'iphone micro soldering repair shop' gives 473k results)
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Right. He was underestimating to demonstrate that even a very small number of shops and iPhones/week would yield a large amount. But also we should take into context how many iPhone 6 and 6+s have been sold. The first article on a Google search comes up with Wired who is discussing numbers from Oct-Dec of last year and in that time Apple sold 75 MILLION iPhones. And I think the iPhone 6 model has only been out for a year or two, right? So even if we quadrupled the defect number per year, we'd still fall quite short of even the recent Samsung recall. Please keep in mind I'm not saying it's not a problem, just trying to help put numbers into perspective. Link to article: http://www.wired.com/2016/01/apple-sold-a-record-number-of-iphones-but-just-barely/ http://www.wired.com/2016/01/apple-sold-a-record-number-of-i...

gerbilly 10y ago

>“But the fact remains—compared to earlier iPhone models, the iPhone 6/6+ is kind of a ‘bendy’ phone. Its slim form factor and larger surface area subject the logic board within the phone to mechanical flexion pressure that no other iPhone has had to deal with[...]” Thank god they are rumoured to be making phones even slimmer then, _and_ getting rid of the headphone jack as well! Apple seems to be putting form ahead of function these days.

manarth 10y ago
Well, they did (apparently) address the issue in the 6S, by moving the vulnerable components, so presumably they'll have considered this issue in the next iteration. Maybe they'll even restore the metal shields over the chips. The 7 will probably just have a different set of problems to deal with.
- valine 10y ago
  Not only that, but in the 6s they also switched to a new grade of aluminum that is significantly less prone to bending.
xedarius 10y ago
These days??? How quick we forget the iPhone 4 that didn't work as a phone when held due to shielding issues.
- intoverflow2 10y ago
  Apart from that it was a great design, very user serviceable. Whole thing comes apart with just two screws, glass isn't part of the touch screen so smashed phones can be fixed for <$10 in < 10 minutes. Apple likes to bleat on about how environmentally sound they are but glueing everything together and making it disposable piece of electro-garbage just makes that whole spiel ridiculous to me.
  - collyw 10y ago
    You mean the one that they choose the most obscure pentalobe screws on the market for?

grej 10y ago

I actually had this issue show up on an iPhone6 right after the warranty period expired. I had phone support multiple times and took it in two different Apple Stores and they acted like they'd never seen the issue before. They eventually gave up (after a myriad of other fixes they had us try that didn't work) and said we'd have to get a new phone. Luckily, we had insurance on it, but it was still a $99 deductible. It's very frustrating to learn that this problem is quite a lot more common than they let on.

robg 10y ago
Likely affects every 6+ so they are trying to get by without a recall unless there's some user handling that's the cause. Luckily in Apple store my swap was under warranty and they tried to run tests, but didn't seem successful so they are largely trusting customers. First swap took about 30 mins, second took 15 mins. They are clearly aware it could affect some phones, but they didn't come right out and say it. They just acted as if they've heard the problem many times before.
whatok 10y ago
My wife had the issue, it stopped for a while, and then popped up again right after the warranty ran out. She needed a replacement ASAP (otherwise I would have shopped it around at multiple stores) and they refused to acknowledge that it was a known defect.

chris_wot 10y ago

This is going to cost Apple a lot of money in Australia. The average length of a phone contract here is about two years, and guess what? Courts have ruled that under the Australian Consumer Competition Law that's pretty much what is considered a reasonable timeframe for a phone to last. And Apple are scare shitless of defying them lest they but hit with another record fine by the ACCC.

lukeholder 10y ago

I had this same issue with my iPhone 6 Plus screen not responding to touch as this article explains. Took it into Apple in Perth City (Western Australia) and they replaced the iPhone on the spot with a brand new refurbished. This article leads with a story about apple denying it to a customer, but I had my issue resolved within 25 minutes including running a last minute icloud backup. Apples legendary support is real.

robg 10y ago
Me too, relatively quick swap if under one year warranty. And then I had it happen again with the replacement device within days. The second swap was even faster as I explained I had the problem with the last phone too. The Apple store reps clearly knew what was up, tried to run tests the first time, the second time they just trusted me as I knew all the symptoms and the phone was only days used.
josho 10y ago
The issue is a design defect--Apple designed a part that has a high failure rate. The article is implying that it is an error in Apple's mfg process and should be fixed even on out of warranty phones.
ximeng 10y ago
Maybe in some locations for some issues. My 6se bent after a few weeks at weak point near volume control and was offered chance to buy refurbed model at half price of original. Design fault in my opinion but that doesn't count for anything much.
deleted 10y ago
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pluma 10y ago
Wait. The device was within warranty and they gave you a "refurbished" (i.e. not new) iPhone as replacement? I'm so glad this is blatantly illegal in various countries. They sold you a faulty brand new product, so they must give you a brand new replacement if they can't fix the defect on the device they sold you. This is akin to telling the waiter there's a hair in your soup and getting a new soup that was returned by another customer but has since been re-heated and de-haired.

tyfon 10y ago

"but said Apple doesn’t recognize it as an issue" Oh, I am so glad we have laws in my country to prevent asshole companies from doing things like this. Goods that is "expected to last long" has a five year mandatory warranty here and mobiles are included. The rest has two years. It doesn't matter if they recognize it as an issue, the phone is broken period.

davidiach 10y ago
There's no free lunch. What are the trade-offs? Do you pay more for the same devices than in other countries?
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  This extended warranty thing is common throughout the EU (in the UK it's 6 years for example). In the UK we pay more than the US for most things but it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    In the last couple of years the Sale of Goods Act protections were weakened as part of bringing us into line with Europe. It's now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act which although clearer gives fewer rights to refund from the seller. Note it's the retailer rather than manufacturer who is liable, so we have much more confidence that what we buy is "of merchantable quality", safe and legal to sell. Quite a number of HN threads have made this advantage clear.
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      Yes it's manufacturer for the first year (or two possibly) and after that it falls to the retailer.
  - sbuk 10y ago
    "..it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences" Generally it's down to VAT @ 20% and import duties, with some exchange rate padding. Example: Apple iPhone SE is £359 in the UK and $399 in the US. As of 15:00 on 06/09, the $399 is ~£298. Add 20% VAT and you have ~£358. EDIT: Exchange rates play a big part.

y04nn 10y ago

Note that in Europe, whatever Apple says, you have a 2 years warranty for this kind of problem. Also, do the chip really need a replacement, or a simple reflow would work?

zspitzer 10y ago
In Australia, under the Australian Consumer Law (2011), goods must be fit for purpose and there aren't limits on warranties http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/...
pluma 10y ago
I'm not even sure how they would try to argue against it. "Yes, the phone developed a fault under typical use within the warranty period and yes, a lot of other customers are having the same problem, but" ...? Apple devices are luxury goods sold at a high premium. You expect that stuff to withstand at least the same everyday handling as their competitors' products in the same market segment.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Just because something is obvious doesn't mean they won't try to argue against it. Look at the "holding the phone wrong" debacle
raihansaputra 10y ago
It's said in the article that while it would fix it, but the problem tends to come back with reflow instead of replacing the chips.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  And the use of Lead-free solder only makes the problem worse (which doesn't mean it was perfect in the first place)
snowwrestler 10y ago

y04nn 10y ago

Note that in Europe, whatever Apple says, you have a 2 years warranty for this kind of problem. Also, do the chip really need a replacement, or a simple reflow would work?

intoverflow2 10y ago

This really has been one of the poorest Apple designs in a long time. Can't believe it's likely to stick around for another year.

tempodox 10y ago

They will say, “don't hold it that way” as long as we let them. A class action suit sounds reasonable. Apple clearly have to work on their ability to defeat the laws of Physics before their devices become fully magical.

pmarreck 10y ago

Happened to mine. I got a free swap to a 6S+.

akerro 10y ago

Have there been any iPhone without "design defect"? Does any one think "design defect" is not made by accident since Apple fights everyone who tried to fix their iPhone on their own?

mikeash 10y ago
The 4 had the "you're holding it wrong" antenna. The 6+ is too bendy. What else has there been?
- RKearney 10y ago
  Didn't the camera lens on the 5 or 5S cause purple lens flares to appear in photos? I love my iPhone, just trying to answer your question.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Looks like! http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-occurs-because-youre-holding-your-iphone-5-wrong-apple-says/ http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-oc... Don't know how I missed that one, maybe because it's not as serious, but I'd say it still counts. I like my iPhone too, but I am curious what other problems are out there. Seems like they've been pretty solid for the most part, but I say that out of potential cluelessness, not defensiveness.
- shinratdr 10y ago
  The iPhone 5 black paint chipping problem, the iPhone 5 sleep/wake button failure, the iPhone 5 battery problem. The bending issue extends to the regular 6 as well, I've encountered multiple devices in the wild that have it. That's about it though. I would also argue that all of these issues are more isolated than reports make it seem. No doubt, they are all grounds for a good extended warranty program at the very least but they aren't dangerous, recall-worthy or a case where all devices are affected. Just a significant enough number that if it occurs, it should be a free repair or replacement. For a quick glance at all the recent acknowledged design flaws Apple has copped to, this page is a useful resource: https://www.apple.com/ca/support/exchange_repair/ https://www.apple.com/ca/support/exchange_repair/

packetized 10y ago

Apple definitely recognizes this as an issue, because I've had three 6+s replaced under warranty (not AppleCare) for this issue in the past six months.

devopsproject 10y ago
key word: under warranty Those who expect to use their iPhones more than 12 months are getting shafted
- packetized 10y ago
  Yet, it took nearly 18 months for this to manifest itself before I replaced it for the first time in April - again, under warranty.

hourislate 10y ago

It seems one of the solutions to this problem is not sticking your iphone into a back pocket of your skinny jeans. I constantly see girls sticking an iphone into the back pocket of their pants that are so tight you wonder how they even got it in there. Then they sit down with the damn phone still in there. I am surprised it doesn't snap in half. I typically carry my phone or keep it in my front pocket removing it before I sit down in fear of bending it. It's not a wallet, it's a delicate piece of electronics that requires care in handling.

SEJeff 10y ago

FWIW, this exact same thing happened to my wife's iPhone 6+. She took it in and told the tech the problem. He didn't even look at the phone and took her word for it. She got a new phone that day.

EA 10y ago

Happened to my launch-week iPhone 6 Plus. Apple employees at the store were aware that phones had this issue but acted like it wasn't a problem they could treat. They treated it as a "bad screen" problem by replacing screens. After a couple of screen replacements the issue didn't go away. Ultimately, I had to pay $329.00 for a refurbished phone after they swapped out a few screens which didn't make the problem go away. There is a class action lawsuit forming: http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-defect/ http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-defect/

dntrkv 10y ago
I don't understand how they would make you buy a refurbished phone. Anytime I have had any issues on my iPhone, if Apple couldn't fix it, they just give me a new/refurbished phone free of charge.
usaphp 10y ago
How would they make you buy a refurbished phone? I recently dropped my iPhone 6s (again) and screen finally cracked, I brought it to apple - they tried to replace the screen and it did not work, so they just gave me a brand new phone for a price that I paid for screen replacement (~$140)
- cududa 10y ago
  My understanding of the heuristics (as an owner of iPhone 6 Plus [not 6s], with many broken screens)- if there is body damage around the screen in the thin aluminum parts, you need a full replacement (the screen can't sit properly and can't seat properly). If there's no body damage, they replace the screen. If the replaced screen still doesn't pass calibration, you get a refurbed phone

Joky 10y ago

"Over time, as the phone flexes or twists slightly during normal use" I don't flex or twist my phone, I wonder what is "normal use"...

SlashmanX 10y ago
Carrying it in your jeans' pocket?
- Joky 10y ago
  Front pocket all the time. It'd hurt if I was flexing it there...

curiousgal 10y ago

Apple think 5-year-old computers are for suckers so why wouldn't they systematically make their phones last shortly.

givinguflac 10y ago

I agree it sucks they aren't just covering it for people. However, I have a launch 6+ that I've beat the crap out of and sat on tons of times. It has not bent even a little and I'm a big person. I've also had no touch screen issues. Obviously YMMV but I've literally stepped on the thing by accident, dropped it down a pile of rocks at the beach, and other unintended abuse with no issues at all.

mangeletti 10y ago

I wonder why this is being flagged (moved like 15 positions down in 3 minutes). @dang - is worth looking into whether there is a pattern to the flagging of this post (i.e., IP addresses from a certain company in Cupertino, pattern of other negative Apple PR being flagged by the same users, etc.)?

thecosas 10y ago

Update on the first article: http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-going-away/ http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-going-away/

jokoon 10y ago

I recently bought a 80 euros Android, 5.5", quad core, 1gb ram, real GPS, 8gb space, 1280 horizontal resolution. I can break 5 of those and still have more money than if i bought an apple equivalent. I'm posting this on a 60 euros android i bought 2 years ago.

usaphp 10y ago
What point are you trying to make? My friend just bought a $900 android phone which has been recalled a day after he bought it...
- jokoon 10y ago
  I'm really skeptical about justifying such price. It is literally 10 times more expensive, and I'm curious if the phone is really 10 times better, or if there are power users who really get something out of paying that much more. I mean the technologies inside it are the same, the specs are higher, sure, but I don't think it's worth that much. That goes for the price of the latest, top notch CPU or GPUs. 1 year or 2 years later, the price has dropped significantly. So either it's cutting edge patents, or that there are many people ready to pay for a phone that won't the latest one in 6 months. The point I'm trying to make? Like for everything, top of the line products exist, and just like you said, those are not shielded from defects, despite their price. Price is not synonym of quality, performance of durability. 90% of the stuff you find in an expensive phone are the same. My point is that despite the price of the iPhone, it's not really worth its price.

Animats 10y ago

This is inept design. If Apple wants to make devices so thin that they flex, they have to make them more rigid where necessary and allow for more flexing. There are true flexible PCBs, ones with parts on them, not just wiring harnesses.[1] This isn't the first product where Apple has had this problem. It's embarrassing, or ought to be. (I don't have this problem; I own a Cat phone (yes, Caterpillar Tractor) which can be run over by a truck [2][3] and still work.) [1] http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-PCB http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-PCB [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8

deleted 10y ago
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thespace123 10y ago

Wow, didn't know this was widespread! Thanks for the tip! Anyway I turn mine on and off with the left button until it goes away. Hope that little tip helps and I hope the issue doesn't get worse

thespace123 10y ago

Wow, didn't know this was widespread! Thanks for the tip! Anyway I turn mine on and off with the left button until it goes away. Hope that little tip helps and I hope the issue doesn't get worse