6 ms·

The thing you got to wonder about is : they're trying to stop a panic. Is this going to stop the panic or reinforce it ? My money's on reinforce. And it's (tha

by iofj 11y ago

The thing you got to wonder about is : they're trying to stop a panic. Is this going to stop the panic or reinforce it ? My money's on reinforce. And it's (thankfully) out of China.

curiousjorge 11y ago
well this is a clear signal that Chinese government has failed to control the stock market. I can't believe how naive they were thinking they could control something that is traditionally found only in non-command economies. My guess is that they are going to come up with some bullshit like foreigners are driving down the stock prices, blame the Western devils for being homeless. Well, it's not like people are going to go up to arms about it, it is a communist country after all, and we've seen how well Soviet Union did in keeping people in check even at the shittiest time.
- drcross 11y ago
  As if America is doing anything about taking up arms to free themselves from the rape of their country by corporate influences.
- VintageCool 11y ago
  Foreigners can't invest in China's stock market.
  - irln 11y ago
    Not advocating but I think you can invest in ETFs that track indexes like MCHI and ASHR.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    You can since the SH-HK stock connect went live.
  - nogbit 11y ago
    That's true, but, you can bet against it in the NYSE Arca http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSEARCA%3AYANG http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSEARCA%3AYANG
  - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
    Sure we can. As long as we earn RMB and live in China, not that this tempts me.
    - desdiv 11y ago
      Applying the principle of charity[0], I interpreted "foreigner" in this context as: >Foreigner may refer to: Alien (law), a person in a country who is not a citizen or permanent resident of that country.[1] If someone earns RMB and lives in China, then presumably they're either a citizen or a permanent resident. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner
      - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
        Oh, the Chinese definitely don't see it that way. I'm sure my Chinese name is laowai because that is what I'm called everywhere. I'm neither a citizen, nor a permanent resident. The Chinese don't hand out greencards easily (maybe a few hundred a year) and even then often only to people of Chinese descent.
      - PakG1 11y ago
        So... I earn RMB and live in China... but I'm totally a foreigner. In fact, foreigners can't really become permanent residents of China, especially if you're not of Chinese descent.
    - tiatia 11y ago
      I never heard about this. As far as I know you need to be Chinese to buy A-Shares. Having RMB or being paid in RMB is irrelevant since even a tourist can open a bank account in China or HK. Please elaborate in this.
      - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
        I think if you present your income tax receipts (your money was earned in China), as long as the money is earned in China. there are all sorts of problems that go away with income tax receipts since not any tourist can get a job and earn money domestically.
- adventured 11y ago
  They've already blamed Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Soros for having a role: "In the past few days, rumors have circulated on the Wechat messaging service that “international capital” — or simply capitalism itself — was attacking China. Goldman Sachs and the Hong Kong office of China Southern Asset Management were supposed to be profiting from short-selling the market – rumors that were later rubbished by the China Securities Regulatory Commission. On Thursday, Chinese media also implied that George Soros or Morgan Stanley might be to blame." https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/07/02/in-china-hostile-foreign-forces-blamed-for-bursting-stock-market-bubble/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/07/0...
  - forgetsusername 11y ago
    >They've already blamed Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Soros for having a role And how is this any different than what the Americans do: blame the bankers for all their financial problems?
- imron 11y ago
  >it is a communist country after all, That's like saying the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is 'Democratic'. Which is to say, it's totally not. They might call themselves that, but for the last few decades China has been communist in name only. It's far more capitalist than any western country I've lived in.
  - mda 11y ago
    It is called peoples republic(!) of China. As for communism, they play that card whenever it suits them.
  - tiatia 11y ago
    > >it is a communist country after all, > That's like saying the Democratic People's Republic of > North Korea is 'Democratic'. Which is to say, it's totally > not. I would not bet on this. They still have (opposed to for example the US) the idea of increasing the living conditions for all Chinese. They are quite homogeneous (Yes, I know, Han Chinese are the majority), have a strong cultural identity and identify with their country (not necessary with their government). The huge discrepancies in wealth could be easily reversed after the market economy did it's deed. I think this is one reason why all rich Chinese want to get their wealth out of the country ASAP.
    - imron 11y ago
      > The huge discrepancies in wealth could be easily reversed I don't think it could easily be reversed - you'd need a revolution. Not only because the higher ups have far too much skin in the game to want to reverse a system that generates huge wealth for themselves and their entire families, but they also know that the country needs capitalism and a market economy. At the end of the cultural revolution, they also knew that after decades of proclaiming the evils of capitalism, it'd be a tough sell to the general population to just suddenly about face and say 'oops we were wrong, capitalism is good after all' and so we have 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' and a bunch of other things that are basically rebranded capitalism and that gives the general populace a warm fuzzy feeling without associating it with any of the cultural baggage terms like 'capitalism' have in Chinese society.
joe_the_user 11y ago
Yes, You get the feeling that the people manipulating the markets are ignorant of the basic psychology involved here. The proper way to do this is to officially say: "We believe in letting markets find their value and we believe they are sounder than many think" while unofficially pumping money in like crazy. It gives me the impression the credibility of the "new Mandarin" approach of China's rulers is being torn to shreds. Not sure what the upshot will be.
- deciplex 11y ago
  > Not sure what the upshot will be. China's rulers will also be torn to shreds?
  - guessbest 11y ago
    Never happen. Too many tanks.
    - deciplex 11y ago
      The Chinese military drive the tanks, not the CCP leadership.
      - guessbest 11y ago
        The Chinese military knows who pays their checks.
        _yosefk 11y ago
        Well, I dunno. The Soviet military refused to back the Communist Party in 1991; Churchill wrote that the German military was planning to overthrow Hitler in 1938 in what they thought was the likely scenario of his policies resulting in the UK and France entering into a war with Nazi Germany. So it all depends.
        deleted 11y ago

by iofj 11y ago

The thing you got to wonder about is : they're trying to stop a panic. Is this going to stop the panic or reinforce it ? My money's on reinforce. And it's (thankfully) out of China.

curiousjorge 11y ago

well this is a clear signal that Chinese government has failed to control the stock market. I can't believe how naive they were thinking they could control something that is traditionally found only in non-command economies. My guess is that they are going to come up with some bullshit like foreigners are driving down the stock prices, blame the Western devils for being homeless. Well, it's not like people are going to go up to arms about it, it is a communist country after all, and we've seen how well Soviet Union did in keeping people in check even at the shittiest time.

drcross 11y ago
As if America is doing anything about taking up arms to free themselves from the rape of their country by corporate influences.
VintageCool 11y ago
Foreigners can't invest in China's stock market.
- irln 11y ago
  Not advocating but I think you can invest in ETFs that track indexes like MCHI and ASHR.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  You can since the SH-HK stock connect went live.
- nogbit 11y ago
  That's true, but, you can bet against it in the NYSE Arca http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSEARCA%3AYANG http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSEARCA%3AYANG
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  Sure we can. As long as we earn RMB and live in China, not that this tempts me.
  - desdiv 11y ago
    Applying the principle of charity[0], I interpreted "foreigner" in this context as: >Foreigner may refer to: Alien (law), a person in a country who is not a citizen or permanent resident of that country.[1] If someone earns RMB and lives in China, then presumably they're either a citizen or a permanent resident. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner
    - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
      Oh, the Chinese definitely don't see it that way. I'm sure my Chinese name is laowai because that is what I'm called everywhere. I'm neither a citizen, nor a permanent resident. The Chinese don't hand out greencards easily (maybe a few hundred a year) and even then often only to people of Chinese descent.
    - PakG1 11y ago
      So... I earn RMB and live in China... but I'm totally a foreigner. In fact, foreigners can't really become permanent residents of China, especially if you're not of Chinese descent.
  - tiatia 11y ago
    I never heard about this. As far as I know you need to be Chinese to buy A-Shares. Having RMB or being paid in RMB is irrelevant since even a tourist can open a bank account in China or HK. Please elaborate in this.
    - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
      I think if you present your income tax receipts (your money was earned in China), as long as the money is earned in China. there are all sorts of problems that go away with income tax receipts since not any tourist can get a job and earn money domestically.
adventured 11y ago
They've already blamed Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Soros for having a role: "In the past few days, rumors have circulated on the Wechat messaging service that “international capital” — or simply capitalism itself — was attacking China. Goldman Sachs and the Hong Kong office of China Southern Asset Management were supposed to be profiting from short-selling the market – rumors that were later rubbished by the China Securities Regulatory Commission. On Thursday, Chinese media also implied that George Soros or Morgan Stanley might be to blame." https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/07/02/in-china-hostile-foreign-forces-blamed-for-bursting-stock-market-bubble/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/07/0...
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >They've already blamed Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Soros for having a role And how is this any different than what the Americans do: blame the bankers for all their financial problems?
imron 11y ago
>it is a communist country after all, That's like saying the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is 'Democratic'. Which is to say, it's totally not. They might call themselves that, but for the last few decades China has been communist in name only. It's far more capitalist than any western country I've lived in.
- mda 11y ago
  It is called peoples republic(!) of China. As for communism, they play that card whenever it suits them.
- tiatia 11y ago
  > >it is a communist country after all, > That's like saying the Democratic People's Republic of > North Korea is 'Democratic'. Which is to say, it's totally > not. I would not bet on this. They still have (opposed to for example the US) the idea of increasing the living conditions for all Chinese. They are quite homogeneous (Yes, I know, Han Chinese are the majority), have a strong cultural identity and identify with their country (not necessary with their government). The huge discrepancies in wealth could be easily reversed after the market economy did it's deed. I think this is one reason why all rich Chinese want to get their wealth out of the country ASAP.
  - imron 11y ago
    > The huge discrepancies in wealth could be easily reversed I don't think it could easily be reversed - you'd need a revolution. Not only because the higher ups have far too much skin in the game to want to reverse a system that generates huge wealth for themselves and their entire families, but they also know that the country needs capitalism and a market economy. At the end of the cultural revolution, they also knew that after decades of proclaiming the evils of capitalism, it'd be a tough sell to the general population to just suddenly about face and say 'oops we were wrong, capitalism is good after all' and so we have 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' and a bunch of other things that are basically rebranded capitalism and that gives the general populace a warm fuzzy feeling without associating it with any of the cultural baggage terms like 'capitalism' have in Chinese society.

joe_the_user 11y ago

Yes, You get the feeling that the people manipulating the markets are ignorant of the basic psychology involved here. The proper way to do this is to officially say: "We believe in letting markets find their value and we believe they are sounder than many think" while unofficially pumping money in like crazy. It gives me the impression the credibility of the "new Mandarin" approach of China's rulers is being torn to shreds. Not sure what the upshot will be.

deciplex 11y ago
> Not sure what the upshot will be. China's rulers will also be torn to shreds?
- guessbest 11y ago
  Never happen. Too many tanks.
  - deciplex 11y ago
    The Chinese military drive the tanks, not the CCP leadership.
    - guessbest 11y ago
      The Chinese military knows who pays their checks.
      - _yosefk 11y ago
        Well, I dunno. The Soviet military refused to back the Communist Party in 1991; Churchill wrote that the German military was planning to overthrow Hitler in 1938 in what they thought was the likely scenario of his policies resulting in the UK and France entering into a war with Nazi Germany. So it all depends.
        deleted 11y ago