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USB-C as the "one connector to rule them all" is the big news. That's the end of MagSafe and the exploding era of USB-C docking stations that work for multiple

USB-C as the "one connector to rule them all" is the big news. That's the end of MagSafe and the exploding era of USB-C docking stations that work for multiple devices. I think we'll start to see an era of expandable computing coming up soon: USB-C is a perfect connector to push your data and state into a larger desktop experience. Why not carry around your laptop in tablet form when you are mobile? [1] [1] https://grack.com/blog/2015/01/16/usb-31-ara-are-the-convergence-end-game/ https://grack.com/blog/2015/01/16/usb-31-ara-are-the-converg...

DannyBee 12y ago
I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :) But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)
- function_seven 12y ago
  I will guarantee you that their charger will have a port on it to pass through. Still awkward, but I can't imagine that they'd force users to choose between data and power on that one port.
  - geoelectric 12y ago
    I just hope the passthrough is up near the part that plugs into the laptop, or it's going to be awfully inconvenient for a lot of different kinds of peripherals.
    - function_seven 12y ago
      Looks like I had it backwards. It's the other items that pass through the USB C port. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip... I wish the power adapter itself would also have the passthrough.
- bane 12y ago
  It just means we're going to stay stuck in dongle hell. When I'm on the road the minimalism of a Mac is nice, but at my desk, hooked up to everything I really need for heavy work, my desktop is a cluster-f of cables and adapters and wires.
  - mmastrac 12y ago
    To be fair, it's at least a single standard dongle hell. And now with USB-C you can have thunderbolt-style docks that give you a near-universal docking experience (ie: DVI/HDMI/dozens of USB ports/DVD drive/power) with a single cable when you're at your desk.
    - Someone1234 12y ago
      I agree, that is the theory. However we might be at least a year from such hubs being affordable. I guess what I am saying is, I wouldn't want to be queued outside the Apple store for one of these. The supporting accessories aren't there yet (yes, even with Apple's two hubs/adapters). However when they do the refresh on this line, one or two years from now, the supporting hubs, wires, and so on will be available and it will be a very fun experience.
  - greggman 12y ago
    Isn't it only dongle hell for a few years? Theoretically monitors, printers, hard drives, etc will all have USB-C connectors as well at some point.
    - lbearl 12y ago
      So we are basically back to the old days of Daisy-chaining SCSI devices?
      - zkhalique 12y ago
        What's wrong with USB hubs?
- madeofpalk 12y ago
  > I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :) To be fair, Apple had a lot of people on the USB-C standards... 'committee', second only to Intel. Source: http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7505187/apple-macbook-2015-usb-type-c-reversible http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7505187/apple-macbook-2015-...
  - DannyBee 12y ago
    Not to denigrate their work, but this happened very very late in the type-C game. (Look at who attended what meetings, and where it was proposed, how far it was along when it was proposed, and then when apple started showing up. It looks like they saw the writing on the wall, and joined in to make sure they weren't going to get left behind)
    - melling 12y ago
      Probably realized that they needed to go with USB-C because of cars, European regulations, etc. Finally, everyone is using one connector. PC, Mac, Android, and iOS?
    - gress 12y ago
      Actually you are just denigrating their work with innuendo.
      - DannyBee 12y ago
        Actually, i have real facts, but i can't state them here, so i'm pointing you at enough data to draw your own conclusions. But sure, if you'd rather just believe whatever you like, you are welcome to :)
        gress 12y ago
        I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you are deceiving yourself if you think you aren't denigrating them. That is clearly your intention, and you think the facts bear you out. Why not just be honest about it?
- mrb 12y ago
  "But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)" No, USB Type-C allows multiple concurrent uses, such as: charging and using HDMI at the same time. See http://www.anandtech.com/show/8518/hands-on-with-usb-type-c-reversible-usb-connectors http://www.anandtech.com/show/8518/hands-on-with-usb-type-c-... : "This opens up the possibility for a dock scenario where a single cable to the monitor can charge a laptop and also mirror the laptop's display onto the external monitor, and the external monitor would also be able to serve as a USB hub for a keyboard, mouse, headsets, flash drives, and other USB peripherals." Edit: @rakoo: I agree that in scenarios where you do not have a hub, it is annoying to have only 1 port. Even if the power brick integrates a USB hub it would be weird to have to plug a USB drive in the brick... I guess this opens a market opportunity: sell a tiny USB hub with 3 ports (type-C power in, type-C power out, type-A generic port) that is meant to be left almost permanently attached to the laptop or to the end of the power cord.
  - zaroth 12y ago
    Theoretically, yes. But I'm not obsoleting my new 4K 60" screen to add a port. So if I want to output display to a monitor/projector and I'm low on battery, I better have a powered USB hub handy... It may come with a 1-port USB plus power adapter in place of the standard power cable though?
    - exprL 12y ago
      Having a powered USB hub doesn't seem like a stretch next to a 60" monitor. It's not like the latter is very portable. edit: vocabulary
    - radicalbyte 12y ago
      On my desk I have two monitors, keyboard, mouse, microphone, webcam, laptop and an Antec USB charger which charges my phone, bluetooth headset, kindle and vita. My laptop is connected to the power via magsafe and the monitors with HDMI and USB. Keyboard/mouse/webcam/microphone are connected to the monitors. With the new USB-C plug I guess I'll be able to buy the hypothetical Antec "Super USB Charging Media Hub", which all my devices connect to. My laptop then only needs to plug into one thing. I would really like PC manufacturers to standardize on this; it would make using laptops as nice as using non-Apple telephones/tablets/ereaders is now. The decision to not include a single USB port is of course mind-boggling, especially given Apple's market. How are you supposed to share large files? No USB drives, no memory cards etc on the go.
- elcct 12y ago
  One port at a time
toomuchtodo 12y ago
Is this the end of Thunderbolt as well?
- mmastrac 12y ago
  Thunderbolt runs over USB-C, as well as DisplayPort. USB 3.1 features re-configurable lines that can negotiate almost any protocol. [1] [2] [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announced http://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mod... [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/8539/usb-power-delivery-v20-and-billboard-device-class-v10-specifications-finalized http://www.anandtech.com/show/8539/usb-power-delivery-v20-an...
  - afandian 12y ago
    I've not read those docs (sorry) but what if I want to run DisplayPort for my monitor and simultaneously plug in an external USB drive? Can a single line switch between protocols?
    - mmastrac 12y ago
      Yes you can. IIRC you can run USB3.x-speed devices and one alt-mode over a single line.
    - lsaferite 12y ago
      They will be able to MUX two DP lanes onto two of the USB SS lanes and keep one for USB 3.1 as well. Also, there are dedicated wires for USB 2.0 as well that are separate from the SS lanes.
  - djrogers 12y ago
    Displayport != Thunderbolt. Displayport is a protocol that can run over a thunderbolt port, but the thunderbolt spec includes much more than that. I don' believe we'll be seeing the 40Gbps PCI extension that is today's thunderbolt over USB 3.1.
    - 12y ago
jkot 12y ago
I am not too happy about that. HP already has USB charger for laptop, and it had bunch of problems, including fire hazard. That was just ARM chromebook, not sure how it will on 'full' mac. EDIT: there are physical limitations how electric current is transferred. USB contacts do not have good shape and will probably deteriorate more quickly.
- headShrinker 12y ago
  In the old days, HP had a high standard of quality. More recently, almost coinciding with the introduction of inkjet printers, HP quality standards have slipped to a new dismal low. I'm not surprised to hear of fires.
  - jkot 12y ago
    USB connector was not simply designed for 10 amps or how much they push through it.
    - bri3d 12y ago
      USB-C has a new connector and specifies voltages up to 20V, which will cut the amperage vs. old 5V USB chargers by a factor of four.
    - sfeng 12y ago
      If they use the current 45 watt charger power, at the maximum 20V allowed by USB-C, you're looking at about 2.6 amps.
  - mark_l_watson 12y ago
    I just purchased a little HP 11" Stream, and the build quality is pretty good - I was pleasantly surprised, especially for a $199 laptop that includes $125 in free software coupons. (Pro-tip: if you need a Windows laptop, but it directly from Microsoft so you don't get any crap-ware loaded on it.) That said, I am kind of looking forward to my (about) 4 year old MacBook Air eventually dying and then I will buy the new model that was announced today :-) MacBooks are beautiful.
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
My only regret is that MagSafe is actually really cool. I think I'd have to say it's worth it for full standards-compliance, though.
- jowiar 12y ago
  Battery life is long enough such that MagSafe isn't as necessary as it used to be. Back when you had to haul your power cord to meetings, coffeeshops, and the like, cord tripping was a serious problem. Now? Far less so.
  - Xylakant 12y ago
    Have kids and/or pets run around in the same area where your computer is plugged in. Sooner or later one is going to tear on the cord - heck, even I do manage from time to time. And the connector looks so flimsy I'm afraid one time is all it's going to take. Nah, macsafe was the best invention ever in terms of charging.
    - chockablock 12y ago
      parent's point is that your laptop now spends far less time plugged in during use. I bet consumer behavior has changed, and that laptops with 10+hr battery life probably get charged more like phones: overnight and in a safe location.
      - Xylakant 12y ago
        so I have a reduced chance of incident occurrence, but if it does, it's probably fatal vs. a high chance of non-fatal incident. Bad trade if you ask me.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - cweiss 12y ago
        Counter-point: As not-the-primary-computer, my MBA is plugged in 80% of the time and gets moved from place to place as my crowded workspace dictates. I can't count the number of times I've accidentally yanked the Magsafe connector out trying to move it just out of cable reach because I needed to get at something underneath. Granted, a lot of that is learned behavior because I know I can yank the Magsafe out without incurring a $500 repair.
wahsd 12y ago
I am a bit on the fence about them seemingly jettisoning the lighting connector? Why go with a plug that has a delicate prong in the center rather than a plug with the contacts around the perimeter? Does anyone know if there was any emphasis put on making USB-C less flimsy and delicate?
- grandalf 12y ago
  It will just be so nice to have the port be standardized.
- fuzzywalrus 12y ago
  I'll add another question: Does USB-C have a spec for requesting additional wattage? Example: I have a USB-C Printer/Hard drive/or otherwise, and plug in my MacBook Air, will it charge my MacBook or will I need an intermediate like a specialty hub to charge? This seems egregious if every device needs to provide power for the potential of charging device in question...
  - sharth 12y ago
    http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/ http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/
  - ghostly_s 12y ago
    There's actually a supplemental spec, USB-PD(Power Delivery) which now accopmanies USB 3.0 and addresses this. It is carried over the USB physical layer but does not rely on the data layer for communication.
  - ghostly_s 12y ago
    To answer more specifically; yes— not only is every node in the bus network addressable for power needs and capabilities, even each of the two ends of a cable is a separately addressable node (mostly used to figure out which way a swappable cable is oriented, I think).
  - azdle 12y ago
    It does, but it's not a requirement for all devices so you may or may not need a hub to provide power back to the laptop depending on the device. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery
swalsh 12y ago
I wonder if the iPhone 6S will have a usb-c port that lets you dock the phone and use it for work.
- Grazester 12y ago
  That is not going to happen. Apple licenses out the use of its connectors for docking stations and other accessory usage. If they just drop the lightening connector on the iphone this soon after implementing it, I dont think manufacturers of these accessories would very happy about that.
  - ghostly_s 12y ago
    Why would Apple start giving a flying f about accessory manufacturers?
    - Grazester 12y ago
      Because they are the ones that support Apple's products and pay a license to do so. If you change standards every Monday morning then these manufacturer would have to retool their products which would no doubt cost them.
    - ghostly_s 12y ago
      Apple has a long history of completely disregarding the needs or desires of accessory manufacturers, and only started the MFi program after years of categorically responding with cease-and-desist letters. The program is primarily in serving Apple's interests in a level of reliability in the accessory ecosystem; it's an absolutely insignificant revenue stream.
      - baddox 12y ago
        Is this really the case? They certainly seemed to stick with the 30 pin connector for far longer than they had any reason to other than the massive third party accessory/dock/speaker market.
  - 12y ago
joshvm 12y ago
It also looks like (finally) the complete modularisation of the power supply. You should be able to have a localised wall cable, power brick and separate USB cable to the computer. In principle this should mean an end to ridiculously overpriced power supplies (currently north of £60). It's even more galling given that they realised the cables were so poorly made that US customers have a special return program for fraying while the rest of the world doesn't - hooray for litigation culture? The new 29W brick currently costs £40 and the 2m USB-C cable £25. Typically it's not the brick that fails, it's the poor strain relief on the laptop cable. Being able to replace just the cable with (probably) an aftermarket product is a massive step up.
- scandinavian 12y ago
  £25 for a 2m cable is ridiculous.
whytry 12y ago
Why don't you just sell me a prison?
blhack 12y ago
Thank god. The magsafe adapter is cool, but has some serious flaws to it. Namely: it's magnetic, so any sort of [ferrous] metal dust will accumulate inside of it, preventing you from getting a good seal on the connector. If you work in any environment other than a sterile coffee shop, this will be a huge problem for you. I spend almost all of my time working in a hackerspace, and fiddling with my power connector on my less than 1 year old laptop is a constant annoyance.
- ddoolin 12y ago
  I've had three MBPs over the course of a few years and never had this issue. Though, I have noticed a very small dust build up but it definitely hasn't compromised the magnetic seal. Is it an older version? I don't plug/unplug a whole lot so that may also be contributing.
  - robotresearcher 12y ago
    It is a problem if your environment includes ferro-magnetic crud. All my lab's magsafe ports are wobbly and it's hard to clean them out.
    - stcredzero 12y ago
      Strong adhesives are often a good way to defeat magnets. (I've used this principle, but not in the specific context of removing magnetic crud from inside a magsafe plug.) A properly designed magsafe power plug would have a way of either easily replacing the plug or removing/defeating the magnet.
      - robotresearcher 12y ago
        Thanks, that's a good tip.
    - trose 12y ago
      Not to be a dick here but I think you're in a minority. I dont think many users are going to run into this issue.
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- Crito 12y ago
  I am guessing the logic here is that everyone uses wireless mice, or that anyone with a laptop doesn't use an external mouse. I mean, I used a wired mouse, and I'm guessing you do as well, but it seems like wired mouse users are not taken seriously anymore.
- deleted 12y ago
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- blkhp19 12y ago
  You use a wired mouse?
  - deleted 12y ago
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  - deleted 12y ago
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- jayfuerstenberg 12y ago
  You don't need to have the mouse on the left side. Either go with bluetooth or a cable longer than 20cm.
- ben174 12y ago
  I don't know anyone who uses a wired mouse anymore. Especially on a laptop.
  - krapp 12y ago
    I still use a wired mouse and a wired keyboard for my laptop (since I prefer the size and of a standard keyboard to the little rubber chiclets HP calls a keyboard.) It has literally all the advantages of a wireless setup, without ever having to worry about batteries. This trend in laptop design towards providing fewer ports for what seems to be little more than aesthetics seems a bit backwards.
Finbarr 12y ago
Seems like there are some new $79 adapters to split out the USB-C port into power, usb and av[1]/vga[2]. [1] http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av... [2] http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip...
- Someone1234 12y ago
  Thanks for posting that. I think when the rumour was spreading about USB-C/loss of Magsafe everyone was asking if Apple was going to do something like that, or even if it was feasible to both charge AND provide back out USB/Mini-Displayport ports. I hope IFixIt guys takes those things apart, I bet they have their own little OS and processor just like we've seen in previous Apple "adapters."
  - lsaferite 12y ago
    The VGA one has to have something special for sure. The Type-C connector doesn't do analog video at all.
    - api 12y ago
      Even for mini display port these have a chip inside that actually does the VGA modulation. It's not a big deal.
- drinchev 12y ago
  One more thing to carry in the bag I guess.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  That's fine for portability...except that it's a whopping $79. What we also want is a hub into which we can plug our monitors and additional storage. For desktop use, this should have a longer cord, of course. (There are such hubs for USB 3, which can already be bought for ~$79 t0 ~$250 depending on what you want out of video compatibility.
cheald 12y ago
As a guy with small children, the loss of MagSafe is actually a huge downgrade for me. The number of times MagSafe has saved my laptop and/or power cable from damage after a child blitzed through the living room and tripped over the power cable is not insignificant.
- safepants 12y ago
  i think the idea is not to have it plugged in to power while using it, only charge overnight
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - cheald 12y ago
    That's a fine intention, but I sometimes like to compile code or use Chrome.
    - jbrooksuk 12y ago
      I don't think that you're the target audience - along with the majority of us here.
      - nostrademons 12y ago
        This seems to be true, but then I wonder who they expect to develop the software for their target audience?
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        brorfred 12y ago
        People that buy Macbook Pro's?
        kalleboo 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
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Gustomaximus 12y ago
> Why not carry around your laptop in tablet form when you are mobile? For me I prefer a laptop because its workable on the lap and small surfaces. I have seriously considered a Surface Pro but using a kick stand doesn't work on a bus/train/lounge which are common usages for me when on the move. And given tablets are about the same size as an ultrabook I may as well get the additional usage benefit. If I did want the mobile tablet form I would prefer a larger size phone that docks and become my desktop when at home/work.
ericfrederich 12y ago
Cool article. Seems like you need to have managed source code to transplant an application from one type of processor to another. Java, .NET, Dalvik, etc all fit this category. I wonder if we'll start seeing fat binaries for native code that ship with LLVM IR so that even C and C++ code can be transplanted from your phone's ARM processor to your desktop's Intel.

DannyBee 12y ago

I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :) But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)

function_seven 12y ago
I will guarantee you that their charger will have a port on it to pass through. Still awkward, but I can't imagine that they'd force users to choose between data and power on that one port.
- geoelectric 12y ago
  I just hope the passthrough is up near the part that plugs into the laptop, or it's going to be awfully inconvenient for a lot of different kinds of peripherals.
  - function_seven 12y ago
    Looks like I had it backwards. It's the other items that pass through the USB C port. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip... I wish the power adapter itself would also have the passthrough.
bane 12y ago
It just means we're going to stay stuck in dongle hell. When I'm on the road the minimalism of a Mac is nice, but at my desk, hooked up to everything I really need for heavy work, my desktop is a cluster-f of cables and adapters and wires.
- mmastrac 12y ago
  To be fair, it's at least a single standard dongle hell. And now with USB-C you can have thunderbolt-style docks that give you a near-universal docking experience (ie: DVI/HDMI/dozens of USB ports/DVD drive/power) with a single cable when you're at your desk.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    I agree, that is the theory. However we might be at least a year from such hubs being affordable. I guess what I am saying is, I wouldn't want to be queued outside the Apple store for one of these. The supporting accessories aren't there yet (yes, even with Apple's two hubs/adapters). However when they do the refresh on this line, one or two years from now, the supporting hubs, wires, and so on will be available and it will be a very fun experience.
- greggman 12y ago
  Isn't it only dongle hell for a few years? Theoretically monitors, printers, hard drives, etc will all have USB-C connectors as well at some point.
  - lbearl 12y ago
    So we are basically back to the old days of Daisy-chaining SCSI devices?
    - zkhalique 12y ago
      What's wrong with USB hubs?
madeofpalk 12y ago
> I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :) To be fair, Apple had a lot of people on the USB-C standards... 'committee', second only to Intel. Source: http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7505187/apple-macbook-2015-usb-type-c-reversible http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7505187/apple-macbook-2015-...
- DannyBee 12y ago
  Not to denigrate their work, but this happened very very late in the type-C game. (Look at who attended what meetings, and where it was proposed, how far it was along when it was proposed, and then when apple started showing up. It looks like they saw the writing on the wall, and joined in to make sure they weren't going to get left behind)
  - melling 12y ago
    Probably realized that they needed to go with USB-C because of cars, European regulations, etc. Finally, everyone is using one connector. PC, Mac, Android, and iOS?
  - gress 12y ago
    Actually you are just denigrating their work with innuendo.
    - DannyBee 12y ago
      Actually, i have real facts, but i can't state them here, so i'm pointing you at enough data to draw your own conclusions. But sure, if you'd rather just believe whatever you like, you are welcome to :)
      - gress 12y ago
        I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you are deceiving yourself if you think you aren't denigrating them. That is clearly your intention, and you think the facts bear you out. Why not just be honest about it?
mrb 12y ago
"But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)" No, USB Type-C allows multiple concurrent uses, such as: charging and using HDMI at the same time. See http://www.anandtech.com/show/8518/hands-on-with-usb-type-c-reversible-usb-connectors http://www.anandtech.com/show/8518/hands-on-with-usb-type-c-... : "This opens up the possibility for a dock scenario where a single cable to the monitor can charge a laptop and also mirror the laptop's display onto the external monitor, and the external monitor would also be able to serve as a USB hub for a keyboard, mouse, headsets, flash drives, and other USB peripherals." Edit: @rakoo: I agree that in scenarios where you do not have a hub, it is annoying to have only 1 port. Even if the power brick integrates a USB hub it would be weird to have to plug a USB drive in the brick... I guess this opens a market opportunity: sell a tiny USB hub with 3 ports (type-C power in, type-C power out, type-A generic port) that is meant to be left almost permanently attached to the laptop or to the end of the power cord.
- zaroth 12y ago
  Theoretically, yes. But I'm not obsoleting my new 4K 60" screen to add a port. So if I want to output display to a monitor/projector and I'm low on battery, I better have a powered USB hub handy... It may come with a 1-port USB plus power adapter in place of the standard power cable though?
  - exprL 12y ago
    Having a powered USB hub doesn't seem like a stretch next to a 60" monitor. It's not like the latter is very portable. edit: vocabulary
  - radicalbyte 12y ago
    On my desk I have two monitors, keyboard, mouse, microphone, webcam, laptop and an Antec USB charger which charges my phone, bluetooth headset, kindle and vita. My laptop is connected to the power via magsafe and the monitors with HDMI and USB. Keyboard/mouse/webcam/microphone are connected to the monitors. With the new USB-C plug I guess I'll be able to buy the hypothetical Antec "Super USB Charging Media Hub", which all my devices connect to. My laptop then only needs to plug into one thing. I would really like PC manufacturers to standardize on this; it would make using laptops as nice as using non-Apple telephones/tablets/ereaders is now. The decision to not include a single USB port is of course mind-boggling, especially given Apple's market. How are you supposed to share large files? No USB drives, no memory cards etc on the go.
elcct 12y ago
One port at a time

toomuchtodo 12y ago

Is this the end of Thunderbolt as well?

mmastrac 12y ago
Thunderbolt runs over USB-C, as well as DisplayPort. USB 3.1 features re-configurable lines that can negotiate almost any protocol. [1] [2] [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announced http://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mod... [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/8539/usb-power-delivery-v20-and-billboard-device-class-v10-specifications-finalized http://www.anandtech.com/show/8539/usb-power-delivery-v20-an...
- afandian 12y ago
  I've not read those docs (sorry) but what if I want to run DisplayPort for my monitor and simultaneously plug in an external USB drive? Can a single line switch between protocols?
  - mmastrac 12y ago
    Yes you can. IIRC you can run USB3.x-speed devices and one alt-mode over a single line.
  - lsaferite 12y ago
    They will be able to MUX two DP lanes onto two of the USB SS lanes and keep one for USB 3.1 as well. Also, there are dedicated wires for USB 2.0 as well that are separate from the SS lanes.
- djrogers 12y ago
  Displayport != Thunderbolt. Displayport is a protocol that can run over a thunderbolt port, but the thunderbolt spec includes much more than that. I don' believe we'll be seeing the 40Gbps PCI extension that is today's thunderbolt over USB 3.1.
  - 12y ago

jkot 12y ago

I am not too happy about that. HP already has USB charger for laptop, and it had bunch of problems, including fire hazard. That was just ARM chromebook, not sure how it will on 'full' mac. EDIT: there are physical limitations how electric current is transferred. USB contacts do not have good shape and will probably deteriorate more quickly.

headShrinker 12y ago
In the old days, HP had a high standard of quality. More recently, almost coinciding with the introduction of inkjet printers, HP quality standards have slipped to a new dismal low. I'm not surprised to hear of fires.
- jkot 12y ago
  USB connector was not simply designed for 10 amps or how much they push through it.
  - bri3d 12y ago
    USB-C has a new connector and specifies voltages up to 20V, which will cut the amperage vs. old 5V USB chargers by a factor of four.
  - sfeng 12y ago
    If they use the current 45 watt charger power, at the maximum 20V allowed by USB-C, you're looking at about 2.6 amps.
- mark_l_watson 12y ago
  I just purchased a little HP 11" Stream, and the build quality is pretty good - I was pleasantly surprised, especially for a $199 laptop that includes $125 in free software coupons. (Pro-tip: if you need a Windows laptop, but it directly from Microsoft so you don't get any crap-ware loaded on it.) That said, I am kind of looking forward to my (about) 4 year old MacBook Air eventually dying and then I will buy the new model that was announced today :-) MacBooks are beautiful.

PhasmaFelis 12y ago

My only regret is that MagSafe is actually really cool. I think I'd have to say it's worth it for full standards-compliance, though.

jowiar 12y ago
Battery life is long enough such that MagSafe isn't as necessary as it used to be. Back when you had to haul your power cord to meetings, coffeeshops, and the like, cord tripping was a serious problem. Now? Far less so.
- Xylakant 12y ago
  Have kids and/or pets run around in the same area where your computer is plugged in. Sooner or later one is going to tear on the cord - heck, even I do manage from time to time. And the connector looks so flimsy I'm afraid one time is all it's going to take. Nah, macsafe was the best invention ever in terms of charging.
  - chockablock 12y ago
    parent's point is that your laptop now spends far less time plugged in during use. I bet consumer behavior has changed, and that laptops with 10+hr battery life probably get charged more like phones: overnight and in a safe location.
    - Xylakant 12y ago
      so I have a reduced chance of incident occurrence, but if it does, it's probably fatal vs. a high chance of non-fatal incident. Bad trade if you ask me.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - cweiss 12y ago
      Counter-point: As not-the-primary-computer, my MBA is plugged in 80% of the time and gets moved from place to place as my crowded workspace dictates. I can't count the number of times I've accidentally yanked the Magsafe connector out trying to move it just out of cable reach because I needed to get at something underneath. Granted, a lot of that is learned behavior because I know I can yank the Magsafe out without incurring a $500 repair.

wahsd 12y ago

I am a bit on the fence about them seemingly jettisoning the lighting connector? Why go with a plug that has a delicate prong in the center rather than a plug with the contacts around the perimeter? Does anyone know if there was any emphasis put on making USB-C less flimsy and delicate?

grandalf 12y ago
It will just be so nice to have the port be standardized.
fuzzywalrus 12y ago
I'll add another question: Does USB-C have a spec for requesting additional wattage? Example: I have a USB-C Printer/Hard drive/or otherwise, and plug in my MacBook Air, will it charge my MacBook or will I need an intermediate like a specialty hub to charge? This seems egregious if every device needs to provide power for the potential of charging device in question...
- sharth 12y ago
  http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/ http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/
- ghostly_s 12y ago
  There's actually a supplemental spec, USB-PD(Power Delivery) which now accopmanies USB 3.0 and addresses this. It is carried over the USB physical layer but does not rely on the data layer for communication.
- ghostly_s 12y ago
  To answer more specifically; yes— not only is every node in the bus network addressable for power needs and capabilities, even each of the two ends of a cable is a separately addressable node (mostly used to figure out which way a swappable cable is oriented, I think).
- azdle 12y ago
  It does, but it's not a requirement for all devices so you may or may not need a hub to provide power back to the laptop depending on the device. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery

swalsh 12y ago

I wonder if the iPhone 6S will have a usb-c port that lets you dock the phone and use it for work.

Grazester 12y ago
That is not going to happen. Apple licenses out the use of its connectors for docking stations and other accessory usage. If they just drop the lightening connector on the iphone this soon after implementing it, I dont think manufacturers of these accessories would very happy about that.
- ghostly_s 12y ago
  Why would Apple start giving a flying f about accessory manufacturers?
  - Grazester 12y ago
    Because they are the ones that support Apple's products and pay a license to do so. If you change standards every Monday morning then these manufacturer would have to retool their products which would no doubt cost them.
  - ghostly_s 12y ago
    Apple has a long history of completely disregarding the needs or desires of accessory manufacturers, and only started the MFi program after years of categorically responding with cease-and-desist letters. The program is primarily in serving Apple's interests in a level of reliability in the accessory ecosystem; it's an absolutely insignificant revenue stream.
    - baddox 12y ago
      Is this really the case? They certainly seemed to stick with the 30 pin connector for far longer than they had any reason to other than the massive third party accessory/dock/speaker market.
- 12y ago

joshvm 12y ago

It also looks like (finally) the complete modularisation of the power supply. You should be able to have a localised wall cable, power brick and separate USB cable to the computer. In principle this should mean an end to ridiculously overpriced power supplies (currently north of £60). It's even more galling given that they realised the cables were so poorly made that US customers have a special return program for fraying while the rest of the world doesn't - hooray for litigation culture? The new 29W brick currently costs £40 and the 2m USB-C cable £25. Typically it's not the brick that fails, it's the poor strain relief on the laptop cable. Being able to replace just the cable with (probably) an aftermarket product is a massive step up.

scandinavian 12y ago
£25 for a 2m cable is ridiculous.

whytry 12y ago

Why don't you just sell me a prison?

blhack 12y ago

Thank god. The magsafe adapter is cool, but has some serious flaws to it. Namely: it's magnetic, so any sort of [ferrous] metal dust will accumulate inside of it, preventing you from getting a good seal on the connector. If you work in any environment other than a sterile coffee shop, this will be a huge problem for you. I spend almost all of my time working in a hackerspace, and fiddling with my power connector on my less than 1 year old laptop is a constant annoyance.

ddoolin 12y ago
I've had three MBPs over the course of a few years and never had this issue. Though, I have noticed a very small dust build up but it definitely hasn't compromised the magnetic seal. Is it an older version? I don't plug/unplug a whole lot so that may also be contributing.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  It is a problem if your environment includes ferro-magnetic crud. All my lab's magsafe ports are wobbly and it's hard to clean them out.
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    Strong adhesives are often a good way to defeat magnets. (I've used this principle, but not in the specific context of removing magnetic crud from inside a magsafe plug.) A properly designed magsafe power plug would have a way of either easily replacing the plug or removing/defeating the magnet.
    - robotresearcher 12y ago
      Thanks, that's a good tip.
  - trose 12y ago
    Not to be a dick here but I think you're in a minority. I dont think many users are going to run into this issue.

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Crito 12y ago
I am guessing the logic here is that everyone uses wireless mice, or that anyone with a laptop doesn't use an external mouse. I mean, I used a wired mouse, and I'm guessing you do as well, but it seems like wired mouse users are not taken seriously anymore.
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blkhp19 12y ago
You use a wired mouse?
- deleted 12y ago
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jayfuerstenberg 12y ago
You don't need to have the mouse on the left side. Either go with bluetooth or a cable longer than 20cm.
ben174 12y ago
I don't know anyone who uses a wired mouse anymore. Especially on a laptop.
- krapp 12y ago
  I still use a wired mouse and a wired keyboard for my laptop (since I prefer the size and of a standard keyboard to the little rubber chiclets HP calls a keyboard.) It has literally all the advantages of a wireless setup, without ever having to worry about batteries. This trend in laptop design towards providing fewer ports for what seems to be little more than aesthetics seems a bit backwards.

Finbarr 12y ago

Seems like there are some new $79 adapters to split out the USB-C port into power, usb and av[1]/vga[2]. [1] http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av... [2] http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multiport-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip...

Someone1234 12y ago
Thanks for posting that. I think when the rumour was spreading about USB-C/loss of Magsafe everyone was asking if Apple was going to do something like that, or even if it was feasible to both charge AND provide back out USB/Mini-Displayport ports. I hope IFixIt guys takes those things apart, I bet they have their own little OS and processor just like we've seen in previous Apple "adapters."
- lsaferite 12y ago
  The VGA one has to have something special for sure. The Type-C connector doesn't do analog video at all.
  - api 12y ago
    Even for mini display port these have a chip inside that actually does the VGA modulation. It's not a big deal.
drinchev 12y ago
One more thing to carry in the bag I guess.
stcredzero 12y ago
That's fine for portability...except that it's a whopping $79. What we also want is a hub into which we can plug our monitors and additional storage. For desktop use, this should have a longer cord, of course. (There are such hubs for USB 3, which can already be bought for ~$79 t0 ~$250 depending on what you want out of video compatibility.

cheald 12y ago

As a guy with small children, the loss of MagSafe is actually a huge downgrade for me. The number of times MagSafe has saved my laptop and/or power cable from damage after a child blitzed through the living room and tripped over the power cable is not insignificant.

safepants 12y ago
i think the idea is not to have it plugged in to power while using it, only charge overnight
- deleted 12y ago
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- cheald 12y ago
  That's a fine intention, but I sometimes like to compile code or use Chrome.
  - jbrooksuk 12y ago
    I don't think that you're the target audience - along with the majority of us here.
    - nostrademons 12y ago
      This seems to be true, but then I wonder who they expect to develop the software for their target audience?
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - brorfred 12y ago
        People that buy Macbook Pro's?
      - kalleboo 12y ago

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Gustomaximus 12y ago

> Why not carry around your laptop in tablet form when you are mobile? For me I prefer a laptop because its workable on the lap and small surfaces. I have seriously considered a Surface Pro but using a kick stand doesn't work on a bus/train/lounge which are common usages for me when on the move. And given tablets are about the same size as an ultrabook I may as well get the additional usage benefit. If I did want the mobile tablet form I would prefer a larger size phone that docks and become my desktop when at home/work.

ericfrederich 12y ago

Cool article. Seems like you need to have managed source code to transplant an application from one type of processor to another. Java, .NET, Dalvik, etc all fit this category. I wonder if we'll start seeing fat binaries for native code that ship with LLVM IR so that even C and C++ code can be transplanted from your phone's ARM processor to your desktop's Intel.