30 ms·

Amazon's German Workers Strike

203 points by Varcht 13y ago

lafar6502 13y ago
Amazon has already made a decision to move some logistics to cheaper countries in Eastern Europe, so next year they'll have a nice excuse to fire all 'troublemakers' in Germany.
- camus2 13y ago
  They could have done it at first place, but cheaper eastern europe countries dont have germany's infranstructures. That's bad press for Amazon anyway, call me naive, but I think customers do care, I do. But the whole amazon scandal really started when journalists discovered they were hiring "neo nazi" security contractors.
  - levosmetalo 13y ago
    That is one of the reasons I don't buy a book at Amzaon.de or any other Amazon anymore. I use Amazon tho find a book, see preview pages and ratings, and then order the actual book by one of the, preferably local, bookstores, like wittwer, hugendubel or similar.
- TheHippo 13y ago
  One of the main points why Amazon moved to Leipzig/Germany in the first place is, that it is only 25km / 15 miles to the next airport. This airport is also one of three global DHL hubs and the only global DHL hub in Europe. I would suspect they don't want to give up this position.
  - lsaferite 13y ago
    I'm waiting for the day Amazon takes out the logistics middlemen and has it's own long-distance delivery fleets (trucks and planes). I think it is inevitable at the scale they operate under. If/when that happens, it will be interesting to see where the locate their warehouses.
    - aidenn0 13y ago
      I don't know. Right now they commoditize delivery (the customer doesn't pick who delivers the package, just the delivery terms) so they can take advantage of the best rates for any individual package. It will be hard to compete with that internally.
functional_test 13y ago
"The Amazon system is characterized by low wages, permanent performance pressure and short-term contracts" - one of the union board members For me, this sentence captured the entire article. Of course the wages are low-- the jobs require no skills and have been largely automated by Kiva et al. It's hard to argue that performance pressure is a bad thing -- logistics is an industry where performance matters. And again, the competition is robots. Complaining that contracts are short term does have some legitimacy. That said, it's clearly a seasonal business; do the unions honestly expect them to hire people year round when they just aren't needed? I really want to be on the side of the people, but I'm afraid that asking for more money/longer contracts/etc. is just a way to make the automation even more compelling.
- kubiiii 13y ago
  It would clearly be more human to automatize a task that is characterized by low wages, permanent performance pressure and short term contracts. A few years ago while discussing with a cashier about the automated cash registers they had just installed: -Dont you fear losing your job? -You call that a job? -...
  - cantbecool 13y ago
    That type of work is demoralizing to one's soul. I couldn't imagine having to do that as a 9-5. However, I'm going to guess within a decade or so there will have to be a 3-4 day work week instituted as the norm, since there simply won't be enough jobs for people to support themselves with.
    - kubiiii 13y ago
      Either this or bullshit jobs.
      - jeena 13y ago
        "In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour work week." ... http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
kayoone 13y ago
Id actually be interested if something like this happens in the US as well in this form ? Amazon Germany defends itself by saying they already pay above average (for the logistics sector) salaries but ive heard the average is pretty miserable. Overall i think the logistics workers cant win this, as the work they do is pretty expendable, its just a matter of quantity and they will probably find enough people to work for less. As a german i have always had the feeling that these unions are way to aggressive and often times prefer short term goals (more money yay people are happy) over long term goals (successful business, stable jobs).
- hwh 13y ago
  This is about the only political instrument the workers have. And unions are important to provide the infrastructure to allow for strikes. What constitutes the aggressiveness you speak of? "As a german" I see that the political opinion in this country got a bit too streamlined to the view that the vast number of low-paid jobs in this country guarantee "long term goals". Yes, business is successful. After all, Germany has a big sector for low-paid work, and reworked the former restrictions on fixed-term and part-time jobs. "Stable jobs" is a bit too general, then this comes at a price where I would dispute the view that they are "stable". They don't provide enough means for sustain a life after retirement anymore. Yes, Germany as a nation is economically doing fine. The low-paid job sector is booming - and the price for that will be paid by a lot of people struggling to finance their daily needs.
  - roel_v 13y ago
    "They don't provide enough means for sustain a life after retirement anymore." German pension payment are compulsory, so even if you work one of these jobs for 40 years, you still get a pension. Unless I didn't understand what you were saying.
    - sentenza 13y ago
      Yes, but his point was that the pensions which will be payed out to those workers are so small that they are essentially working their way into poverty.
avar 13y ago
One thing not covered in the article: Amazon.de is also used in other parts of Europe, e.g. I'm in The Netherlands and frequently order from there (or amazon.co.uk). So I wonder to what extent this'll also impact secondary markets in the countries that surround Germany.
- pilsetnieks 13y ago
  Also quite a few times when ordering from amazon.co.uk, my orders have been actually shipped from Germany.
  - JanezStupar 13y ago
    If you went to both sites, you would also notice that a lot of the items and indeed merchants are the same on both domains.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Solidarity!
- angersock 13y ago
  Workers of the world unite!
  - kybernetyk 13y ago
    And get replaced by robots!
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      Actually, famed anarchist David Graeber has hypothesized that the capitalist class figured this one out a long time ago, and in fact designed the current neoliberal system to enable them to profit off cheap, indebted labor in preference to mechanizing, which (according to Marxian analyses, at least) could reduce their rate of profit. Thus, the fight for labor rights becomes an important way of forcing the capitalists to mechanize and increase productivity. Certainly if you look at some simple economics, it makes sense, as a hypothesis: a higher price of labor means a greater comparative advantage for machines, a lower price of labor makes massive sums of heavily exploited manpower easier to pay for than expensive mechanization infrastructure.
      - angersock 13y ago
        One may note also that one of the main driving forces of technology has been a relatively high cost of labor--it is theorized that one of the reasons Europeans had such an advantage against the Chinese and Indians in the 1800s, for example, was that they had developed systems not requiring large numbers of people.
conorh 13y ago
If you have not read it already I recommend reading The Guardian article - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo.... One quote from it that stands out for me: "At the Neath working men's club down the road, one of the staff tells me that Amazon is "the employer of last resort". It's where you get a job if you can't get a job anywhere else. And it's this that's so heartbreaking." There was another previous thread on Hacker News where people compared Amazon warehouse workers to Costco workers. I wish Amazon could be more like Costco in regards to their warehouse workers (I don't shop at Amazon any more for that reason).
- sheetjs 13y ago
  +1 for supporting Costco. I also find that there is no guesswork: I've been happy with every Costco purchase, their return and replace policies are extremely friendly, and, while they don't cover all niche items, all of the products they sell are good to excellent quality. I suspect, if they really tried, they could eat Amazon's lunch in the space Unfortunately there is no Costco in Germany
- mathattack 13y ago
  My view on this is if you want to be paid better, work somewhere else. Or encourage an environment where there are more alternative employers. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to take a job there. (And yes, I know that Europe has a different view of unions than the US)
  - DigitalJack 13y ago
    I totally agree with this.
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      I understand the down voting because it was essentially devoid of meaty content, but considering the GP's point of view is unpopular in HN, I thought sharing my agreement was enough reason to post. In that way it is deeper than the normal "me too" or +1 post.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
kriro 13y ago
Wait, I can get fresh groceries from the interwebz soon? Sweet.
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  When I was living in Gdansk, Poland a few years ago this was a standard service offered by a few grocery chains. I ordered in the morning from my office and scheduled delivery in the evening. The groceries were delivered by the courier on the same day. Then I moved to Germany and was shocked that such service doesn't exist here. I miss it. :(
franksmule 13y ago
There was a good BBC Panorama on this with the UK Amazon Warehouses. Very tough targets for low pay.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Highly recommended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELVNmxCFP8I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELVNmxCFP8I A handheld device beeps at you, tells you where to go to get the next item in the cart, you have 15 seconds... and then it repeats all over again... and if you're slow it starts flashing, beeping and you get warnings about not hitting your targets. It's like trying to work but with someone over your shoulder all the time. Terrible.
  - knapp 13y ago
    One thing that struck me watching that was that the timer counted down from 15 to 0. Since "gamification" is so popular amongst management and business theory these days, I was surprised it didn't go the other way and count up, which would mean the worker gets a time to try to beat in the next pickup. Don't get me wrong: it would still be unbearably grim. Maybe even more so. Who knows -- maybe Amazon has tried both methods and has stacks of data that shows counting down is better for productivity, all in neat SQL tables and thrown up on PowerPoint slides. shudder
  - sparky 13y ago
    What part of that is objectionable? I worked logistics at a big box retailer 10-ish years ago, and that kind of thing was completely standard. The feeling was that, yes, the beeps were annoying when you were helping a customer, getting an occasional drink of water, etc., but your (human) supervisors ultimately used their discretion in how they interpreted the efficiency numbers, and could take all that into account. If your supervisor punishes you for taking a bathroom break, that's a separate issue in my book. What's the alternative? Should companies not measure efficiency, or not care what it is, as some sort of gift to their employees? The time for humanity is in interpreting what the machine tells you and hearing the worker's side of the story.
thenmar 13y ago
It's interesting to see the negativity towards the strikers in this topic. Why shouldn't workers be allowed to get together and act as a collective? What's so frightening about the workers having more power?
- prodigal_erik 13y ago
  Markets set efficient prices through competition. When I have just one vendor to buy from and have to pay whatever they demand or go without, it's recognized as an abusive monopoly and market failure. Why is it suddenly okay for a bunch of vendors (of labor) to openly form a cartel, declare all competing vendors off limits through intimidation and violence, and extort whatever they can? Why don't unions have to compete for contracts and thereby set sane terms?
acd 13y ago
I've stopped buying products from Amazon due to them previously hiring nazi security guards and Richard Stallmans stand on them. It's simply not worth saving a few cents for workers not having proper rights. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-ends-contract-of-neonazi-security-firm-over-alleged-mistreatment-of-immigrant-workers-8500115.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-ends-c... http://stallman.org/amazon.html http://stallman.org/amazon.html
mokash 13y ago
I actually worked at Amazon's Milton Keyne's fulfilment centre for a while. It was tough, I almost always came home with blisters on my feet. Picking is THE WORST. The targets they set were absolutely ridiculous, I don't think I reached them once during the two months I worked there.
fredm-de 13y ago
This strike is so ridiculous. I agree that warehouse work isn't the easiest work(physically), but that's part of not being skilled. If you take a look at the wages Amazon pays (10€ for the first year, 11,77€ in the third year) and take a look at other jobs for the unskilled (McDonalds, DPD, Hermes), you can clearly see that this is actually a decent wage. Especially in the Area of eastern Germany, wich is still economically much weaker than western Germany. I worked part-time in a large themepark for 4 years and none of their regular workers got paid that much. Also they we're mostly unemployed in offseason. Also consider that there are only about 15% of their workers striking. The Store is drawn much bigger than it actually is. Also the Union VerDi is just a big Joke. They're not about fair treatment of workers but their own advantage. They're just giving these workers a runaround.
fredm-de 13y ago
This strike is so ridiculous. I agree that warehouse work isn't the easiest work(physically), but that's part of not being skilled. If you take a look at the wages Amazon pays (10€ for the first year, 11,77€ in the third year) and take a look at other jobs for the unskilled (McDonalds, DPD, Hermes), you can clearly see that this is actually a decent wage. Especially in the Area of eastern Germany, wich is still economically much weaker than western Germany. I worked part-time in a large themepark for 4 years and none of their regular workers got paid that much. Also they we're mostly unemployed in offseason. Also consider that there are only about 15% of their workers striking. The Store is drawn much bigger than it actually is. Also the Union VerDi is just a big Joke. They're not about fair treatment of workers but their own advantage. They're just giving these workers a runaround.
novalis78 13y ago
Verdi (the union) is quite a strange animal. As many other unions in Germany they have been losing members for years now but are still a political force (or at least perceive themselves as such). The "American capitalist" Amazon is thus a perfect "enemy" to target, fight - even if just to show off - and improve their own standing in the public arena.
obtino 13y ago
I can't help but think that society itself is to blame for things like this. We, as consumers, always demand lower prices while the pool of resources continues to deplete. Businesses are forced to contend with this, and hence, they try to reduce their costs. They pay staff less, economize on quality, and eventually, when that fails to yeild the appropriate dividends, they move their venture elsewhere - and so the cycle begins again. This has to somehow stop.
- pointernil 13y ago
  You seam to forget that actual humans make up an businesses. There is ALWAYS an actual human being deciding what and if measures are undertaken to satisfy the public "demands". Those humans are to blame. It has to get personal. We need to prevent humans from hiding behind corporation-walls when living their destructive phantasies. Mr. Joseph Stiglitz called for similar measures when discussing the finance-disasters and their legal "consequences" on the court floors... "Phantasies" like treating their workers like their actual "mechanical turks" they help to enable on aws for others... which btw. should have been a warning to all: this IS the technocratic nightmarish model they apply to their "workforce". Obviously customers should make use their money to vote... it could be their employers are learning from amazon just right now.
- hristov 13y ago
  There is nothing wrong with demanding low prices. And paying high prices in no way guarantee fair treatment of workers. That Bangladeshi factory that collapsed used to make some relatively high priced clothes. What we need is legislation that guarantees fair treatment of employees. Then you can still seek the lowest prices but you will not need to feel guilty about it. We are supposed to have such legislation, but Amazon have found some loopholes, unfortunately.
ffrryuu 13y ago
Solidarity to all people.
wil421 13y ago
I absolutely love shopping on amazon but the stories like this that have been coming out in the last couple years are about to make me stop shopping there. I've heard stories from people as well. I'll give them a year or two max to improve and then I will stop.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
As far as I have understood it, the pay and working conditions aren't actually that bad at Amazon, at least for people who can't get any other job. What makes these workers so miserable is that the work they are doing is sucking your heart dry, and it must be almost as bad as cleaning toilets all day (which pays less, by the way).
whalesalad 13y ago
"... 1,115 staff had joined the strike at three sites, but there had been no delays to deliveries." I laughed out loud when I read this. It sounds like Amazon is the only company who's giving jobs out to the slackers. Then the slackers are expected to work hard, can't meet those expectations, so they go on strike. Meanwhile Amazon is unaffected. Amazing.
gasparhaspar 13y ago
The complete lack of basic economic understanding displayed by the posters in this thread is astonishing for a site like HN that is largely devoted to technology entrepreneurship.

203 points by Varcht 13y ago

Amazon has already made a decision to move some logistics to cheaper countries in Eastern Europe, so next year they'll have a nice excuse to fire all 'troublemakers' in Germany.

camus2 13y ago
They could have done it at first place, but cheaper eastern europe countries dont have germany's infranstructures. That's bad press for Amazon anyway, call me naive, but I think customers do care, I do. But the whole amazon scandal really started when journalists discovered they were hiring "neo nazi" security contractors.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  That is one of the reasons I don't buy a book at Amzaon.de or any other Amazon anymore. I use Amazon tho find a book, see preview pages and ratings, and then order the actual book by one of the, preferably local, bookstores, like wittwer, hugendubel or similar.
TheHippo 13y ago
One of the main points why Amazon moved to Leipzig/Germany in the first place is, that it is only 25km / 15 miles to the next airport. This airport is also one of three global DHL hubs and the only global DHL hub in Europe. I would suspect they don't want to give up this position.
- lsaferite 13y ago
  I'm waiting for the day Amazon takes out the logistics middlemen and has it's own long-distance delivery fleets (trucks and planes). I think it is inevitable at the scale they operate under. If/when that happens, it will be interesting to see where the locate their warehouses.
  - aidenn0 13y ago
    I don't know. Right now they commoditize delivery (the customer doesn't pick who delivers the package, just the delivery terms) so they can take advantage of the best rates for any individual package. It will be hard to compete with that internally.

functional_test 13y ago

"The Amazon system is characterized by low wages, permanent performance pressure and short-term contracts" - one of the union board members For me, this sentence captured the entire article. Of course the wages are low-- the jobs require no skills and have been largely automated by Kiva et al. It's hard to argue that performance pressure is a bad thing -- logistics is an industry where performance matters. And again, the competition is robots. Complaining that contracts are short term does have some legitimacy. That said, it's clearly a seasonal business; do the unions honestly expect them to hire people year round when they just aren't needed? I really want to be on the side of the people, but I'm afraid that asking for more money/longer contracts/etc. is just a way to make the automation even more compelling.

kubiiii 13y ago
It would clearly be more human to automatize a task that is characterized by low wages, permanent performance pressure and short term contracts. A few years ago while discussing with a cashier about the automated cash registers they had just installed: -Dont you fear losing your job? -You call that a job? -...
- cantbecool 13y ago
  That type of work is demoralizing to one's soul. I couldn't imagine having to do that as a 9-5. However, I'm going to guess within a decade or so there will have to be a 3-4 day work week instituted as the norm, since there simply won't be enough jobs for people to support themselves with.
  - kubiiii 13y ago
    Either this or bullshit jobs.
    - jeena 13y ago
      "In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour work week." ... http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

kayoone 13y ago

Id actually be interested if something like this happens in the US as well in this form ? Amazon Germany defends itself by saying they already pay above average (for the logistics sector) salaries but ive heard the average is pretty miserable. Overall i think the logistics workers cant win this, as the work they do is pretty expendable, its just a matter of quantity and they will probably find enough people to work for less. As a german i have always had the feeling that these unions are way to aggressive and often times prefer short term goals (more money yay people are happy) over long term goals (successful business, stable jobs).

hwh 13y ago
This is about the only political instrument the workers have. And unions are important to provide the infrastructure to allow for strikes. What constitutes the aggressiveness you speak of? "As a german" I see that the political opinion in this country got a bit too streamlined to the view that the vast number of low-paid jobs in this country guarantee "long term goals". Yes, business is successful. After all, Germany has a big sector for low-paid work, and reworked the former restrictions on fixed-term and part-time jobs. "Stable jobs" is a bit too general, then this comes at a price where I would dispute the view that they are "stable". They don't provide enough means for sustain a life after retirement anymore. Yes, Germany as a nation is economically doing fine. The low-paid job sector is booming - and the price for that will be paid by a lot of people struggling to finance their daily needs.
- roel_v 13y ago
  "They don't provide enough means for sustain a life after retirement anymore." German pension payment are compulsory, so even if you work one of these jobs for 40 years, you still get a pension. Unless I didn't understand what you were saying.
  - sentenza 13y ago
    Yes, but his point was that the pensions which will be payed out to those workers are so small that they are essentially working their way into poverty.

avar 13y ago

One thing not covered in the article: Amazon.de is also used in other parts of Europe, e.g. I'm in The Netherlands and frequently order from there (or amazon.co.uk). So I wonder to what extent this'll also impact secondary markets in the countries that surround Germany.

pilsetnieks 13y ago
Also quite a few times when ordering from amazon.co.uk, my orders have been actually shipped from Germany.
- JanezStupar 13y ago
  If you went to both sites, you would also notice that a lot of the items and indeed merchants are the same on both domains.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

Solidarity!

angersock 13y ago
Workers of the world unite!
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  And get replaced by robots!
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    Actually, famed anarchist David Graeber has hypothesized that the capitalist class figured this one out a long time ago, and in fact designed the current neoliberal system to enable them to profit off cheap, indebted labor in preference to mechanizing, which (according to Marxian analyses, at least) could reduce their rate of profit. Thus, the fight for labor rights becomes an important way of forcing the capitalists to mechanize and increase productivity. Certainly if you look at some simple economics, it makes sense, as a hypothesis: a higher price of labor means a greater comparative advantage for machines, a lower price of labor makes massive sums of heavily exploited manpower easier to pay for than expensive mechanization infrastructure.
    - angersock 13y ago
      One may note also that one of the main driving forces of technology has been a relatively high cost of labor--it is theorized that one of the reasons Europeans had such an advantage against the Chinese and Indians in the 1800s, for example, was that they had developed systems not requiring large numbers of people.

conorh 13y ago

If you have not read it already I recommend reading The Guardian article - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo.... One quote from it that stands out for me: "At the Neath working men's club down the road, one of the staff tells me that Amazon is "the employer of last resort". It's where you get a job if you can't get a job anywhere else. And it's this that's so heartbreaking." There was another previous thread on Hacker News where people compared Amazon warehouse workers to Costco workers. I wish Amazon could be more like Costco in regards to their warehouse workers (I don't shop at Amazon any more for that reason).

sheetjs 13y ago
+1 for supporting Costco. I also find that there is no guesswork: I've been happy with every Costco purchase, their return and replace policies are extremely friendly, and, while they don't cover all niche items, all of the products they sell are good to excellent quality. I suspect, if they really tried, they could eat Amazon's lunch in the space Unfortunately there is no Costco in Germany
mathattack 13y ago
My view on this is if you want to be paid better, work somewhere else. Or encourage an environment where there are more alternative employers. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to take a job there. (And yes, I know that Europe has a different view of unions than the US)
- DigitalJack 13y ago
  I totally agree with this.
  - DigitalJack 13y ago
    I understand the down voting because it was essentially devoid of meaty content, but considering the GP's point of view is unpopular in HN, I thought sharing my agreement was enough reason to post. In that way it is deeper than the normal "me too" or +1 post.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

kriro 13y ago

Wait, I can get fresh groceries from the interwebz soon? Sweet.

kybernetyk 13y ago
When I was living in Gdansk, Poland a few years ago this was a standard service offered by a few grocery chains. I ordered in the morning from my office and scheduled delivery in the evening. The groceries were delivered by the courier on the same day. Then I moved to Germany and was shocked that such service doesn't exist here. I miss it. :(

franksmule 13y ago

There was a good BBC Panorama on this with the UK Amazon Warehouses. Very tough targets for low pay.

yapcguy 13y ago
Highly recommended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELVNmxCFP8I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELVNmxCFP8I A handheld device beeps at you, tells you where to go to get the next item in the cart, you have 15 seconds... and then it repeats all over again... and if you're slow it starts flashing, beeping and you get warnings about not hitting your targets. It's like trying to work but with someone over your shoulder all the time. Terrible.
- knapp 13y ago
  One thing that struck me watching that was that the timer counted down from 15 to 0. Since "gamification" is so popular amongst management and business theory these days, I was surprised it didn't go the other way and count up, which would mean the worker gets a time to try to beat in the next pickup. Don't get me wrong: it would still be unbearably grim. Maybe even more so. Who knows -- maybe Amazon has tried both methods and has stacks of data that shows counting down is better for productivity, all in neat SQL tables and thrown up on PowerPoint slides. shudder
- sparky 13y ago
  What part of that is objectionable? I worked logistics at a big box retailer 10-ish years ago, and that kind of thing was completely standard. The feeling was that, yes, the beeps were annoying when you were helping a customer, getting an occasional drink of water, etc., but your (human) supervisors ultimately used their discretion in how they interpreted the efficiency numbers, and could take all that into account. If your supervisor punishes you for taking a bathroom break, that's a separate issue in my book. What's the alternative? Should companies not measure efficiency, or not care what it is, as some sort of gift to their employees? The time for humanity is in interpreting what the machine tells you and hearing the worker's side of the story.

thenmar 13y ago

It's interesting to see the negativity towards the strikers in this topic. Why shouldn't workers be allowed to get together and act as a collective? What's so frightening about the workers having more power?

prodigal_erik 13y ago
Markets set efficient prices through competition. When I have just one vendor to buy from and have to pay whatever they demand or go without, it's recognized as an abusive monopoly and market failure. Why is it suddenly okay for a bunch of vendors (of labor) to openly form a cartel, declare all competing vendors off limits through intimidation and violence, and extort whatever they can? Why don't unions have to compete for contracts and thereby set sane terms?

acd 13y ago

I've stopped buying products from Amazon due to them previously hiring nazi security guards and Richard Stallmans stand on them. It's simply not worth saving a few cents for workers not having proper rights. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-ends-contract-of-neonazi-security-firm-over-alleged-mistreatment-of-immigrant-workers-8500115.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-ends-c... http://stallman.org/amazon.html http://stallman.org/amazon.html

mokash 13y ago

I actually worked at Amazon's Milton Keyne's fulfilment centre for a while. It was tough, I almost always came home with blisters on my feet. Picking is THE WORST. The targets they set were absolutely ridiculous, I don't think I reached them once during the two months I worked there.

fredm-de 13y ago

This strike is so ridiculous. I agree that warehouse work isn't the easiest work(physically), but that's part of not being skilled. If you take a look at the wages Amazon pays (10€ for the first year, 11,77€ in the third year) and take a look at other jobs for the unskilled (McDonalds, DPD, Hermes), you can clearly see that this is actually a decent wage. Especially in the Area of eastern Germany, wich is still economically much weaker than western Germany. I worked part-time in a large themepark for 4 years and none of their regular workers got paid that much. Also they we're mostly unemployed in offseason. Also consider that there are only about 15% of their workers striking. The Store is drawn much bigger than it actually is. Also the Union VerDi is just a big Joke. They're not about fair treatment of workers but their own advantage. They're just giving these workers a runaround.

fredm-de 13y ago

novalis78 13y ago

Verdi (the union) is quite a strange animal. As many other unions in Germany they have been losing members for years now but are still a political force (or at least perceive themselves as such). The "American capitalist" Amazon is thus a perfect "enemy" to target, fight - even if just to show off - and improve their own standing in the public arena.

obtino 13y ago

I can't help but think that society itself is to blame for things like this. We, as consumers, always demand lower prices while the pool of resources continues to deplete. Businesses are forced to contend with this, and hence, they try to reduce their costs. They pay staff less, economize on quality, and eventually, when that fails to yeild the appropriate dividends, they move their venture elsewhere - and so the cycle begins again. This has to somehow stop.

pointernil 13y ago
You seam to forget that actual humans make up an businesses. There is ALWAYS an actual human being deciding what and if measures are undertaken to satisfy the public "demands". Those humans are to blame. It has to get personal. We need to prevent humans from hiding behind corporation-walls when living their destructive phantasies. Mr. Joseph Stiglitz called for similar measures when discussing the finance-disasters and their legal "consequences" on the court floors... "Phantasies" like treating their workers like their actual "mechanical turks" they help to enable on aws for others... which btw. should have been a warning to all: this IS the technocratic nightmarish model they apply to their "workforce". Obviously customers should make use their money to vote... it could be their employers are learning from amazon just right now.
hristov 13y ago
There is nothing wrong with demanding low prices. And paying high prices in no way guarantee fair treatment of workers. That Bangladeshi factory that collapsed used to make some relatively high priced clothes. What we need is legislation that guarantees fair treatment of employees. Then you can still seek the lowest prices but you will not need to feel guilty about it. We are supposed to have such legislation, but Amazon have found some loopholes, unfortunately.

ffrryuu 13y ago

Solidarity to all people.

wil421 13y ago

I absolutely love shopping on amazon but the stories like this that have been coming out in the last couple years are about to make me stop shopping there. I've heard stories from people as well. I'll give them a year or two max to improve and then I will stop.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

As far as I have understood it, the pay and working conditions aren't actually that bad at Amazon, at least for people who can't get any other job. What makes these workers so miserable is that the work they are doing is sucking your heart dry, and it must be almost as bad as cleaning toilets all day (which pays less, by the way).

whalesalad 13y ago

"... 1,115 staff had joined the strike at three sites, but there had been no delays to deliveries." I laughed out loud when I read this. It sounds like Amazon is the only company who's giving jobs out to the slackers. Then the slackers are expected to work hard, can't meet those expectations, so they go on strike. Meanwhile Amazon is unaffected. Amazing.

gasparhaspar 13y ago

The complete lack of basic economic understanding displayed by the posters in this thread is astonishing for a site like HN that is largely devoted to technology entrepreneurship.