16 ms·

My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

395 points by itsboring 13y ago

Last year I left a laptop at my parents' house with Linux Ubuntu installed. I had it hooked up to their TV for streaming movies. So, this week he gives me a call and tells me that his Windows laptop battery died and he's been using my Ubuntu laptop. He tells me about how he found the Libre Office spreadsheet and he's been filling out his work documents (he works in high-end custom home construction) with it and transmitting it with Google Docs. Then he tells me that he was able to add their house printer and print his docs from the machine using the instructions from Ubuntu's help system. I was pretty much floored. My parents are NOT technical people. I offered to get him a Windows license for the machine but he said that it's working fine for him. People make jokes about the "year of desktop Linux" but if my dad, without calling me ONCE, can use Linux productively to get things done, then, in my opinion, Microsoft is in trouble. As far as I'm concerned, their claim to usability in the PC OS world is dying. Maybe this doesn't mean a whole lot in the big picture, but Linux has cost Microsoft at least one end-user license for an average computer user. For my family, I'm not sure how else you define a "year of Linux desktop."

robabbott 13y ago
My dad is 74. I rebuilt his laptop last year and replaced Windows XP with Unbuntu. He loves it and has had no issues with it.
- itsboring 13y ago
  That's awesome, love to hear stories like that.
nmridul 13y ago
The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office). The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something that they can do. Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.
- itsboring 13y ago
  Very true, if there are driver problems then it becomes a big ordeal. However, we must consider that most Windows installations are set up by an OEM, and in my case, it was already set up by me. In those situations, what matters most is the usability of the system after it's already set up. I doubt my parents would be able to install a fresh copy of either OS without my help.
  - jrs99 13y ago
    My parents had no problems. They went on google, typed in the exact error messages, and found step by step instructions for basically every problem they had without really understanding what they were doing.
- asveikau 13y ago
  > Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Actually, in the majority of cases your OEM or your IT department does this. It's not uncommon to have missing drivers when doing a clean install from the stock image on the retail DVD. (Disclaimer: I have some history with this as I used to work in the team that created Windows Setup.)
  - lespea 13y ago
    That was true back in the xp days but I haven't had to manually hunt down drivers in years. Although I still manually install my graphics drivers since the ones you get through windows update aren't near as current.
    - asveikau 13y ago
      Depends a lot on your hardware. I've had the most problems with network drivers. With 7.
    - yuhong 13y ago
      I think that is also partly because XP lasted a very long time.
spencera 13y ago
Just have to say, Apple has been working the usability angle a lot longer than Ubuntu and it doesn't seem to be upsetting Microsoft too much. Of course, this comes from a person who has never been able to rationalize spending his own money on a Mac.
- itsboring 13y ago
  That's true, but I do have to point out that I recently gave a mac mini to my mom before my dad started using the Ubuntu laptop. I went that direction rather than upgrading her PC from Vista, so it's cost them at least two sales. I realize that means nothing in the grand scheme, but I still feel it's a powerful anecdote given that my parents are "average" computer users.
  - spencera 13y ago
    Interesting. I wonder if your father resorted to the Ubuntu laptop because your Mom refused to give up the mini :P
    - itsboring 13y ago
      Yeah, that's very possible. All I know is that neither of them have had to call me for help so far.
  - stfu 13y ago
    Same here. A few years ago I got my mum a mac mini and no problems ever since. But I just can't get myself into buying one of those "things".
- dubcanada 13y ago
  I would actually disagree with that, as far as stats go Windows is losing market share. Not extremely fast, but they are.
- nicolethenerd 13y ago
  Exactly - Apple products are expensive - despite their usability, not all users are willing to pay a premium for that. On the other hand, if there was a highly-usable free alternative to Windows (which Linux seems like it's well on its way to becoming), that might be a different story. Of course, being free, Linux doesn't have the marketing budget that Apple does - so I don't see it stealing too much of Microsoft's market share any time soon. (And then of course there's the fact that Windows machines are actually subsidized by Microsoft, making Windows effectively cheaper than free. Plus all the other factors that make folks Windows users - the proprietary software, use in schools, etc.)
skuunk1 13y ago
The only real trouble with Linux is possible driver issues (caused by trying to shoehorn an OS onto hardware for which it wasn't initially designed). If more OEMs would put Linux onto laptops directly this wouldn't be a problem. It's still tough to find a good, decently priced laptop OEMed with Linux though. I can't get my hands on the Dell XPS with Ubuntu pre-installed in my current country of residence...
- awesomerly 13y ago
  Please define "shoehorn an OS". Linux generally runs on most modern hardware and arguably is a better general purpose OS than Windows.
  - hatsix 13y ago
    Support for Optimus is horrible. Even if you get it all working, you still can't use both the LCD and an external monitor seamlessly. (i.e. you can see a desktop on both, but you can't move windows from one to another) You CAN do this if you turn off Optimus and just use the NVidia card... but it cuts battery life down by 40%... :-/
    - dublinben 13y ago
      That's really nVidia's fault, for not providing proper drivers. Intel and AMD's integrated GPUs are well supported with few issues.
      - hatsix 13y ago
        Absolutely, but it is a counter-example to the "runs great on modern hardware" statement.
  - skuunk1 13y ago
    I am a huge Ubuntu fanboy (I am even installing it on my old Vaio as I write this), but I would love to have it running on hardware that was designed from the ground up for Ubuntu instead of having to patch together various drivers and troll through forums looking trying to find out how to get the mic and camera working (etc...).
spokenn 13y ago
I installed xubuntu on a 60+ year old man's laptop. It was surprising to see him go from typing "www.google.com" in the yahoo homepage search field to searching for and installing packages on the software center. He needed help when he updated the kernel but he has taught himself a ton of things.
barbs 13y ago
I find this is especially true when comparing to the mess that is Windows 8. Just finding the power button in that OS is a nightmare. It's also interesting to see that it was Ubuntu, presumably with the new Unity interface. It's not something I personally like or even find intuitive, but it looks like it's fairly easy to pick up even for non-technical people. Along with the push by Valve to support Linux, I really hope this increases take-up of linux on the desktop. Sent from my Linux desktop. :)
- itsboring 13y ago
  Agree completely, I feel like it would have actually been harder to teach my parents windows 8 than the systems they're using now. Trying to explain the difference between the metro screen and the desktop just sounds like a nightmare.
- Nursie 13y ago
  I went to my Dad's place a few months back. He had a new win 8 laptop and asked me how to get going with it, he's not an idiot and has been using windows since the 3.x days. As a linux guy I had trouble too but we got there. I went back two weeks later and he had a Mac.
chimeracoder 13y ago
Linux Mint is actually a very easy and natural transition from Windows. A few years ago, I installed Linux on my parents' desktop (dual-boot)[0] and told them that they were "forbidden" to use any other computer for web browsing, document editing, etc. I told them that this would be more secure, and that's all it took to convince them. I figured that, this way, at least I could fix any of their computer problems remotely (over ssh), instead of helping with Windows on the phone. It's been 2 or 3 years now, and they've had zero problems. I haven't even needed to ssh in except to do periodic software updates (which, even then, are superfluous for their purposes). [0] My dad's work requires some very specific Windows-only software
- itsboring 13y ago
  I think Mint is a wonderful distro, always love using it. I'd set dad up with that, but he's made so much progress with Ubuntu that I don't want to upset the apple cart at this point. Maybe in a year or two.
  - garg 13y ago
    You could probably install cappuccino on Ubuntu as another option and then he's half way there to mint.
- ams6110 13y ago
  The thing is Windows XP, with all its warts, will still run comfortably on a 6 or 8 year PC that was low-end when it was new. A few weeks ago, when my wife's old XP computer finally wouldn't boot anymore I got a new hard drive and tried to run Ubuntu on it. Couldn't even get through the installer without it freezing up. Lubuntu installed but wasn't stable. OpenBSD with KDE was pretty good, and I would have stayed with that but lucked out and was able to get a clean low-level copy of the old hard drive to a new one using 'dd' and get back to the original system.
  - tomrod 13y ago
    Try building up from ubuntu minimal instead. I've had a lot of luck going that route with older hardware. It does require access to a wired connection though.
wting 13y ago
Both my parents are 60+. My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a tablet if it weren't for the fact that she visits a lot of flash sites (Chinese TV streaming sites). Likewise my dad is on another Ubuntu machine at home. His work needs access to some software / printers that can't be run via Wine so he's stuck with Windows there. I tried to convert my 25 year old brother as well, but he switched back to Windows after a month. Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new system and preferred Windows.
- pwnna 13y ago
  This is really interesting. I would love to see if there is anything about this generation of people not liking technology changes.
  - wting 13y ago
    My brother has become proficient at using Windows, so his switching costs are higher. He didn't want to learn the Linux equivalent of task manager, adding startup applications, updating / installing software. Also he's in finance so 99% of his work is spent in Excel. By comparison my parents are rudimentary users of technology, and thus their switching costs are low. As long as there is Firefox / Chrome they're ok. Some Chinese sites still depend on ActiveX but they've been replaced with Flash for the most part.
    - sandGorgon 13y ago
      This is the real reason. Excel. There is simply no replacement for it. If there was, the usage of Linux would double within days.
      - pavs 13y ago
        I don't use excel in professional level so I don't know much about it. Is there a vast difference between MS Excel and Linux (OSS) equivalent, or something like Google docs?
jrs99 13y ago
my entire family uses linux. We just find it much easier to use and install things. But the number one reason, of course, no malware, which happens every time kids use my computer on windows.
danielrhodes 13y ago
I think that over time everybody gets to a certain level of proficiency where such interfaces and concepts are not as daunting to them as before. Back in the 90s and even 00s, people were so uncomfortable with GUIs and then the internet that getting them to try a Windows alternative was not worth the effort.
- ams6110 13y ago
  Also the huge popularity of tablets and smartphones have made people less fearful of different UI conventions and more willing to explore and figure things out.
  - itsboring 13y ago
    This is a very keen observation, I feel like mobile devices have helped a ton with breaking the chokehold that Gates and Ballmer have had on the industry.
jrs99 13y ago
Just among friends and family, I find that Linux dominates the desktop.
oddshocks 13y ago
My parents have both rocked Ubuntu and Fedora, with minimal instruction from me. The interfaces/distros seem to come naturally.
arbuge 13y ago
This is one way to look at it. Here's another: I have Ubuntu on a couple of machines at home and still can't get them to talk to my Brother MFC-685CW printer. I'm a PhD in EECS.
- eliben 13y ago
  That's a sad reality in hardware that's not standards compliant, so only specific tuned-for-Windows/OSX drivers work. FWIW, there are decent drivers for HP OfficeJet wireless printers, and printing "just works" from Ubuntu.
- hobs 13y ago
  Here's another: old people are smarter than PHDs. (tongue in cheek)
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - _random_ 13y ago
    It means I have seen people who were smarter than themselves :).
- sandyarmstrong 13y ago
  In my experience, printer compatibility is worse in Windows 8 than in Linux. I've seen lots of common budget laser printers stop being supported in Vista, 7, and 8. Linux has plenty of compatibility problems (scanners are especially bad, imho), but printing is not typically one of them.
- codys 13y ago
  Well, hassle Brother to release some Free printer drivers. They are one of the last major holdouts.
  - skittles 13y ago
    Brother has deb and rpm packages for that printer.
kunai 13y ago
Handed a GNOME 3 PC to my dad. He got it right away. The multitasking in GNOME is just so fluid and efficient compared to any other operating environment, and it's just so... intuitive. As an OS X user, I find GNOME more consistent and easy to use, to be quite honest with you. I'm just holding out until Wine gets to the point where CS6 is supported.
- sbuk 13y ago
  Let me start by say that I am actually a fan of Linux, but not much of a fan of the community that surrounds it and for what it's worth, this is just my opinion. Obviously everybody's milage will undoubtedly vary! My personal experience of Gnome 3 is the polar opposite of yours. I cannot stand it. The UI elements are just horrible and I find the paradigm clunky and lacking in coherence. In fact I find the experience similar to Windows 8, with it's confused metaphors. Unity, while visually more appealing is not much better in terms of usability; the lens paradigm I find irksome. While there is no doubt, IMHO, that it should be surprising that anyone can get "real" work done with the software available on the various Linux desktops available, I feel that there has be a regression in the UX that really does need addressing.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    That last line should read: "While there is no doubt, IMHO, that it shouldn't be surprising that anyone can get "real" work done..." WTF is "real work" anyway?
Morgawr 13y ago
I had been trying to get my parents to move to Linux for a long time and now, after a few months of struggles, it seems they are actually liking it (xubuntu). It all started years ago when my dad got a virus on the windows laptop, then I told him to use Linux (all they do is watch movies and browse the web) and installed Ubuntu for them. My mother got angry at me because she couldn't use Internet Explorer (ugh) and it "looked different" even though my dad was enjoying it, so we had to revert back to Windows... turns out half a year later they are full of viruses and crap, with a thousand toolbars in the browsers and all that stuff. They asked me for help to clean the PC and I pretty much told them that they need Linux if they want to get rid of viruses (I moved to another country so I have no time to go back there and fix it every time they get a virus). My dad managed to convince my mom to use Linux, he pretty much forced her to tell you the truth, however now they both love Xubuntu and have been using it for more than a year without problems. They both think it's actually faster and cleaner than Windows. I'm happy.
- solnyshok 13y ago
  friend of a friend kept bringing me old xp laptop with that 'cyber police, transfer money to us' extortion-virus. when it happened third time in half a year, I installed mint in dual boot for him and haven't heard from him ever again.
lucb1e 13y ago
This thread is awesome. It always feels like I'm the only person on the planet using linux in school; school requires us to use Windows and teaches several other proprietary vendor lock-ins; and very, very few friends actually use Linux, even though most are programmers. Tomorrow I'm going to an open source event, mostly to show support for foss in general. Ironically the event will be in school: the very thing most important for the future generation of programmers and yet a place teaching us to be dependant on expensive, limiting and non-free software. Reading this thread I almost feel that showing support is not needed that much anymore. We're there; our goal is reached. Too bad it's not. Monday morning I'll still be required to prove my competence (dependence?) in using certain non-free software while running the school's spyware in the background... which only runs on Windows. Ten years ago the Dutch government unanimously agreed semi-public institutions should use open software. In 2013, nothing changed. Even despite the Snowden news, it feels like we're still at square one. At least threads like these give me hope :)
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  What do you mean, nobody uses Linux? At my Uni, in CS you couldn't not use one *nix or another. All the classwork happened on some timeshares.
  - lucb1e 13y ago
    That sounds like it should be really. As far as I know, this isn't the case for Dutch, French and Argentinian schools (the ones I have experience with, or know someone that has experience with).
    - S4M 13y ago
      When I was student in France, in a "grande ecole" it was all Windows. When I did an Msc in a standard university (Jussieu), they were using Ubuntu. This was in 2005, maybe it has changed...
- ma2rten 13y ago
  What kind of Dutch school is that? High school? I studied Computer Science at University of Amsterdam. I think I was the only one who was using windows. (I would ssh into a university computer to do most programming).
auctiontheory 13y ago
I wish Evernote supported Linux.
- seth_hg 13y ago
  try everpad(https://github.com/nvbn/everpad https://github.com/nvbn/everpad). It's not perfect but it works.
SylonZero 13y ago
The time for MS and Windows is passing. I guarantee it.
- itsboring 13y ago
  Man, I hope so.(speaking as someone who worked at msft for 2 years)
- mukundmr 13y ago
  Microsoft India sent me an email announcing a 15% hike in cost of their software in 2014. They wanted me to renew some of the subscriptions early. I do hope they wake up to reality.
rpgmaker 13y ago
I use Linux and I find this post sad actually. It's 2013 and Linux users are still insecure enough about the OS to gush about someone using the OS for something productive? Isn't that what all of us have been doing all this time?
- broodbucket 13y ago
  Yes, us. People on Hacker News are either professionals in some technical industry or enthusiasts, for the most part (I'd imagine). On the other hand, if someone who isn't tech savvy can use it over another system that they've been trained to use for many years, then that's significant.
sprizzle 13y ago
I had a similar experience with my cousin, except with Chrome OS. His laptop died and he asked to borrow any extra laptops I had around, and the only one I happened to have was a Chrome OS machine. I was worried he'd need a more desktop-like environment, but it turned out he loved it -- everything we do is on the web these days and there wasn't really anything that he was missing. He moved from Excel to Google Spreadsheets without much trouble and didn't really need anything else. Just a browser. Amazing where the web is going.
marcloney 13y ago
This is a fantastic anecodote and after the year we've had I'm finding the challenges people are having from entering Linux are becoming less and less. Earlier today I marvelled at running a game through Steam whilst listening to streaming music through Spotify whilst being able to switch window into bash.
- itsboring 13y ago
  At work, I threw arch on an old-ass laptop we had sitting around, and then installed steam and portal, hooked it up to the office TV and then had to sit there a minute to marvel at the fact that it all just worked. Never would have predicted that a decade+ ago.
trentmb 13y ago
I tried making my parents use *nix. It didn't go over well. My worthless anecdote counters yours.
- itsboring 13y ago
  Fair enough, but the point was that I ddin't force anything. Like I said in the post, I offered to get him a windows license, but he didn't need it. I didn't try "making" them use anything, as you put it.
  - trentmb 13y ago
    I provided a free computer no different than yourself. Sorry if my original verb use was misleading.
jacknews 13y ago
"I was pretty much floored." Indeed, because old people are all idiots. Honestly, for the basic tasks, the major OS's are as easy as each other these days.
- itsboring 13y ago
  Wasn't meaning to imply that, he's not stupid in the least. What I was impressed with was the initiative, as many users are afraid to make a change like that on their own.
weslly 13y ago
Same thing with my mum. I installed Ubuntu on her slightly old laptop a couple of years ago and when she bought a new computer she asked me to replace Windows 8 (which she found pretty confusing) with Ubuntu again.
jmspring 13y ago
My dad replaced his XP netbook with an older 11" MB Air I had. He has since downloaded Xcode 5 and started working on learning objective C in his mid 60s. His only subsequent request was figuring out a solution for my mother's machine requirements around an iPad. She's one of those that clicks on emails they shouldn't.
- georgebarnett 13y ago
  My mother (65) never took to computers. I gave her a laptop years ago, but the scary keyboard/trackpad black setup combined with the 60 minute charge (this was 2001) means she never touched it. When HP had a fire sale, I sent her one and she loves it. I think the interaction model is more friendly for her than the unknowns if a trackpad and windows.
dhughes 13y ago
My 70 year-old mom can't handle the swipe unlock on an Android phone and won't answer or use it if I unlock it. My dad also 70 is OK with using it and even put on a password but he keeps shutting it off when he isn't using it, neither use a computer.
ivanbrussik 13y ago
I've been using Linux since Redhat 4.0, whatever kernal version that was. I've always been a "desktop" user but very much know my way around bash and can throw together pipes and scripts. Last week I setup a fresh Ubuntu box in our office, on a fairly new Dell PC in order to view a webinar. I wanted to show off Linux (ended up looking like a moron.) Flash issues on Firefox rightaway, no matter what I did it would not let me full screen a YT video in the second monitor. Finally I figured a hack to F11 full screen the browser window and it let me. Next the sound wouldn't work and I had to apt-get for another 10 minutes, then spend another 2 minutes editing som config file. Somehow it worked. I freaking LOVE Linux and will always love it, but it has a very long way to go until it can ship on any device.
- ewzimm 13y ago
  I feel the same way about Windows. Endless issues with printers and drivers especially. But somehow it has managed to hold on to market share with fractured hardware support. If hardware vendors had better Linux support, there would be no problems. Mac OS can only work well as it does because Apple optimizes the OS for the hardware. Fortunately, we are starting to see some good hardware support from vendors like System76, but their ultrabooks still don't result from close collaboration between software and hardware engineers, and they get 5 hours battery life for the Macbook Air's 15. I hope hardware vendors continue to hire more Linux specialists and we see a reversal of this trend.
- n1ghtmare_ 13y ago
  That's pretty much my experience with Linux (Ubuntu). I used it for 2 years and I like it, but dude I was in config files and consoles all the freaking time, I mean it, every single day something.
  - hrkristian 13y ago
    That was my experience with Ubuntu as well, then I switched distro. That mess gets too much hype.
- girvo 13y ago
  I've had that experience with Windows (7, as it happens) myself. That said, I also agree that there are a number of rough edges that haven't been smoothed out, which frustrates me. That's why I'm getting involved in development with Elementary OS :)
viame 13y ago
Very nice, I bought my mom a Macbook Air, but I will try installing Ubuntu on my dads laptop and see how it goes. I would also like to see some high-end construction homes he does, if possible. Thanks
tumes 13y ago
Second time I've had to preface a post like this, not to sound like a dick, but is HN just turning in to r/circlejerk? Glad we have a bunch of parents using Linux, but I'm slightly perplexed by this article's front-page status.
general_failure 13y ago
My mom use kubuntu for over 4 years now. She actually had never seen computers since she was 60. She had her learning curve but she loves it.
pippy 13y ago
For about last five years most linux flavours have been more usable than windows. Ubuntu and Debian have superb out of the box experiences, even more so given the disaster that was Windows 8. For example ElementaryOS is by far one of the best UI out there right now, and Gnome 3.1 finally pulled finger and created everything I'd been wanting in a desktop shell. But the real "year of the Linux desktop" will only ever happen when manufactures get behind it. Like it or not, ChromeOS was a major step in the right direction. The complicated relationship that Microsoft has with their OEM partners and their Surface fiasco might be the bump that will cause the Wintel tower of cards to start falling. I'm interested in why OEM partners even still use Windows given it's a major cost and their profit margins are so thin. It's been a renaissance in instruction set architectures in the last decade with ARM taking over many market segments, and this is something that costs less and Linux has a huge advantage in. Windows will take years to catch up in terms of ARM compatibility and even then it's likely that it will be extremely limited.
- ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
  Linus seems to agree with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o
- special 13y ago
  I'm so pleased to see people talking about elementary OS. It's a cool project. Some links for the lurkers: http://elementaryos.org/ http://elementaryos.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(operating_system) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(operating_system)
Gnarl 13y ago
I'm gonna set my 70+ neighbor up with Linux because the Vista that the computer shop sold her a few years ago as "the future" is dying miserably (all by itself, she doesn't install tons o' stuff) and she also feels it's a slow pain to use. I'm a freelance consultant so she asked me how to get rid of all the "problems" (meaning BSODs, malware, viruses etc.) because she needs to get real work done. When I mentioned I use Linux and never have a BSOD or virus, she asked me if I could "upgrade her computer to Linux" - her words :) So, Linux Mint is going on my ol' neighbor's PC.
- goombastic 13y ago
  Try Elementary OS. The thing is a joy to use.
hnriot 13y ago
I think this, and the rest of the comments have missed the point, It's not linux or windows really that's going on, but that "computing" for the masses has shrunk down to the browser and Office (or it's clones) - the operating system these days has become marginalized for most people. the File Open dialog is about as far as they interact with it, along with CTRL P and the dock. Linux is perfectly capable of this. I run linux on my laptop, I run hadoop, a virtualbox for some VM's, a dozen terminal windows spread over two monitors and python. When I go home I have a similar setup on a MBP and most of the time I can't tell one from the other. The operating system, even for development has become quite irrelevant. I havnen't tried windows in decades... have they fixed the C: nonsense yet, or (stupidly) using the wrong slash in file paths!
- ilyanep 13y ago
  Nope, and (to contradict your point a little bit) I pretty much refuse to do development tasks on Windows because it's the one remaining OS on which I find it impossible to be productive. Have you ever tried working in a Windows command line compared to a UNIX terminal? Yes, I can install cygwin, but I really feel like I shouldn't have to.
  - undergroundhero 13y ago
    If you're doing any work at all with .NET, Visual Studio is the greatest IDE in the world. Believe it or not, people can be productive without a command line--especially if you can use VS to automatically generate thousands of lines of code.
  - itsboring 13y ago
    I tried using cygwin for a while too, but I finally gave up and tossed windows out the...uh...window. The cygwin folks have made a heroic effort, but it still feels like putting lipstick on a pig.
    - bnolsen 13y ago
      start up SSH server in cygwin and life gets much better.
laurenstill 13y ago
I successfully converted several medical practices to Ubuntu last year. 60+ yr old docs who printed emails to leave on my desk. 18 yr old who save everything to the desktop. Better than expected.
lennexz 13y ago
My sister(a student) got a new windows laptop and it was full of viruses and unusable within 4 weeks. She used to use my ubuntu machine before her new one so she did the next logical thing...asked me to install ubuntu for her. She has never looked back since
danielholmlund 13y ago
I need to brag a little because I'm proud of my dad. He's 63 years old and can boot his Grub configuration to 14 different Linux distros last time I looked ( which was about 8 months ago ). Yes, he is technically inclined.
ateeqs 13y ago
Microsoft is in trouble for other reasons, as well. Windows 8 and 8.1 suck. They just don't listen to anyone-- developers, enterprises, home-users, you name it. "They'll shove a xyzw down your throat and you'll like it" has been their philosophy for quite some time-- be it .NET, Ribbon interface, Metro, etc. They are quickly (erm slowly) becoming irrelevant, and it's mainly as a result of this practice.
vayarajesh 13y ago
Thats nice!.. soon ubuntu mobile os will be out.. your dad will be happy to know that i guess :).
elwell 13y ago
My Grandma couldn't understand the concept when I showed here how to browse the internet. She kept wanting to have what she was seeing be on paper.
tn13 13y ago
Nothing surprising at all my parents are perfectly at ease with Ubuntu.
smcnally 13y ago
My mom's 81. Ubuntu's been her primary OS for 3+ years. Started with Windows on a low-end Dell laptop. When any of her 19 grandkids played on it, they'd leave new toolbars and malware behind. The machine got so slow, she was happy to see her email and browser on Linux.
bartkappenburg 13y ago
As I'm reading through the comments I see only two types of users: - the hackernews audience - 60+ low level users (no offence) The former group has enough experience and knowlegde to get the system (linux) adapted to their needs. The latter are only using it for either browsing, checking email or watching movies. I think we're forgetting the important 'middle' group: the ones that aren't in IT but are working with a PC daily for their work. Linux is getting no real traction there (yet!) because of the poor native support of tools that are pretty common the in corporate world. Think: - vpn software - voip tools - login procedures - custom software - etc etc I'm not seeing this fixed in the near future...
- pavs 13y ago
  The only reason Linux is not more mainstream than Windows is because its not pre-installed on your computer when you buy. Even installing popular linux distros like Ubuntu from scratch on a new system is much easier than installing a Windows OS on a new system. I recently had this experience and I was stunned to see that for Windows I had to search and download vendor specific drivers for windows to even work with my monitor properly. I did the same with Ubuntu and no special driver needed to be installed. But only after completing the installation and seeing that everything works as it should, I had the option to install proprietary drivers (I don't have any philosophical problem with them) but I chose not to because it was working just fine. I don't know if this is common maybe someone with more experience can vouch for it?
  - Raphael 13y ago
    Windows 8.1 downloads drivers without prompt.
  - _random_ 13y ago
    Yeah, and the only reason WP is not more mainstream than Android/iOS is because it's not pre-installed on your Samsung Galaxy/iPhone when you buy.
    - pavs 13y ago
richardjordan 13y ago
Thanks for sharing. I know my comment adds little but I wanted to throw out there a nod of appreciation for a story like this.
ofj 13y ago
Same story for me.both my parents are using Ubuntu on 1 PC and 1 Laptop. Since I've installed and set them up, I never had a single call like: where the hell is X or why the hell is Y producing strange error popup...not even speaking of the complete absence of malware. I myself did not even expect this when starting this experiment, but it proves to me: Linux IS arriving at the desktop! ...and its about time.
kaazih 13y ago
The first computer i donated to my folks was win 3.1 no internet. Then win nt 4 still no internet. Finally xp with a dial up connection. Now in their 70's they don't use a computer at all. Finally no more support issues.
ramigb 13y ago
After i read this thread and since i was really busy in the past couple of months, i just realized that for the first time ever all my devices (2 laptops, 1 desktop) are all Ubuntu, and yet i didn't feel i needed to change anything, i think the cloud based apps + the nature of my work (programming) made the choice on my behalf and i couldn't agree more!.
salilpa 13y ago
A couple of years ago, our home desktop which had windows 7 died. My parents needed a new desktop and i gave them my old laptop running ubuntu. Most of the time, my parents use it to browse websites and little bit of spreadsheet and powerpoint. The default ubuntu installation had all that. Also the flash support has increased considerably. There was a time when hangouts or facebook video chat had issues. now it works butter smooth
pulmo 13y ago
My mom is 50+ and used XP for a couple of years before my dad installed Xubuntu on her netbook. Turned out she didn't really need Microsoft Word for writing, she only used it because she knows it from work. Same with Outlook. I think many users are in a similar situation and could easily switch platforms saving money for both hardware and software. The only reason why there is still an old Windows PC at my parents home is the Adobe Software for their Sony ebook reader. (Damn you, DRM!)
wildgift 13y ago
I gave a linux pc to my coworker, for her kids, and they have been using it for a while to do homework. They have some issues now and then, but it works pretty smoothly. The computer is really old - a Sempron with a couple gigs of RAM.
fit2rule 13y ago
My in-laws, 60+, have been running Ubuntu on their old Macbooks for a few years now. They've never once complained about it, and everything Just Plain Works - internet browsing, email, youtube, office-apps. For us, at least, the year of the Linux Desktop was two years ago. Its been a very productive release from the dual hegemonies of both Apple and Microsoft ..
dawkins 13y ago
My father is 81 and very happy with linux mint that I installed for him a few years ago. He only uses chromium. Recently he bought a new laptop and the first thing he asked me was to install Linux.
lignuist 13y ago
After my nephew's laptop (Windows) stopped working two or three years ago, I bought one with pre-installed Ubuntu for him and introduced him to Open Office and Gimp. During the first few weeks, he missed some of his games, but he got used to it pretty fast. No he is using it for studying and everything else and I never heard of any problems afterwards.
itsbits 13y ago
I see many people against windows...I have 2 PCs one with linux(programming) and windows(gaming)..Windows is not that bad for programming as well...its just the set up for your coding env matters....i do sometimes end up programming in windows after playing some game..so i have some tools etc installed which give me almost equal experience of doing it with linux...saying that i still prefer linux laptop for coding, one reason can be addictive games missing in linux...
chmike 13y ago
The only reason I keep a windows machine around is because of Word/Powerpoint. I can get ork done with these. Open/libreOffice are pale copies. I also played some games like TF2 or Age of Empire, but the former is now playable on Ubuntu. Steam is doing an impressive work. For programming, I prefer QtCreator to Visual Studio. I regret QtCreator can't be used with other languages like D, Go, Java. I don't think I'll make the switch to windows 8. My father 82 bought a new computer and Dell only sell Windows 8 on these. This costed him a lot of time to adapt for no justified benefit.
- itsboring 13y ago
  QtCreator is great, I don't get enough chances to work with it (mostly doing C# in monodevelop). VS has really annoyed me lately when I've had to hop into windows. Way too much "waiting for background task to complete" stuff going on.
- csdreamer7 13y ago
  You can direct your parents to system76.com next time they buy a computer. Trust me, as a fellow Dell user there going to need a new computer soon.
fsniper 13y ago
I'm a Pro-linuxer and never have any Windows machines near my home. So this means, Ubuntu netbooks and laptops all around and my mom and sister is very familiar with Linux. They are using these easily. Once I found out my sister tried to install wine via source code :) She needed some windows software for some firmware update and all her research lead her to wine and source code install. The thing is she did not asked me anything about the whole process.
- _random_ 13y ago
  Lions can eat tofu if that is the only thing available to them. Should've given them a choice between Mac/Lin/Win.
  - fsniper 13y ago
    They have been using Windows before hand.. At least my sister.
txutxu 13y ago
The main point here, is in your "My parents are NOT technical people". They do not have pre-juices on stuff. My mum uses linux since she was 65. It was her _first_ contact with an O.S., she did learn to use most things on her own. In all that cases, they didn't deal with hardware choices, software stack choices, incompatibilities in those layers... they just did get a working browser, spreadsheet or messenger... and used it.
hrktb 13y ago
The main point might be that your parents aren't technical people (whatever that means), and the laptop was set from the start (they never had to care about hardware compatibilities). We did a similar thing with my inlaws, leaving an ipad behind to facetime with their grandson, and recently they called because they couldn't see their new mails anymore (their provider changed the imap servers), they also happened to mainly browse sites on the ipad now, installed a few other apps for learning english and we don't hear about windows problems as much as before (they still need the laptop for standard Word/Excel/Powerpoint work and to print since they don't own a blessed HP model) As you did we give them an opportunity to switch to linux, but they would need a well supported and preinstalled machine somehow, and that's not trivial to find. DELL seems to have some available on their net store, but it's a hard pill to swallow for people used to buy VAIO laptops in person and in store (not that they cared about the brand, but they look very nice and the sales person is reassuring). Going the Apple route would bring more or less the same upsides as ubuntu, while skipping all the hardware support parts, giving real exclusive advantages (battery life etc), the bonus being they'd see anouncement in the press they'd understand what the fuss it is about. Linux could be viable, but it seems too late now that the Apple lineup is leaps and bound ahead of everyone else.
- malaporte 13y ago
  "their provider changed the imap server" "learning english" Funny, I had to fix a very similar issue with my french in-laws IMAP just yesterday. Just for science, are your in-laws French and using Free.fr as an ISP?
  - hrktb 13y ago
    They could have been as well, my parents are in France with orange, and they don't seem happy either.
cycojesus 13y ago
In my experience only people who think they know something about computer have problem with Linux. My wife and my mother are Linux users without even knowing what it is and they have exactly zero issue with it.
0xc000005 13y ago
even a dead cat has a better user interface than windows 8.x
andreiursan 13y ago
After reading most off the coments. It feels that we are going in the right and healthy direction. People will be able to chose what OS they want without losing the benefits of actualy doing useful work. Some will want Windows 8, some will go for Linux and some for Mac OS. We are not yet there, but having a healty market distribution of the major OSes will benefit the end-user.
bengalister 13y ago
Linux becomes more and more usable for non-technical users and has done a lot usability-wise on desktops but let's face it there's still a long way to go. If for instance you use Ubuntu (the most popular distro for desktop), it is still plagued by bugs(and even the Long Term Support version). Have a look also at the Linux Mint forums it seems better but many users complain about buggy Cinammon. Well all in all, the desktop environments suffer of more bugs than on Windows or Mac. Here are the reasons that keep me switching for my home PC (Ubuntu is only installed on my spare PC that I use for testing) : - No decent Flash support. The hardware acceleration by the GPU has been disabled (no option to enable it) and when I watch videos on youtube CPU reaches 100%. There's still Chrome which has its own Flash player and it improves significantly with a CPU consumption of around 50% but still far from I got on Windows 7 between 10 and 20%... - Battery draining : again a hot topic and mostly related to bad integration with popular graphic cards and other hardware components (wifi cards) but most people complain of reduced usage on battery (50%) compared to Windows. - For Java developers who use Eclipse, SWT looks ugly and performs badly on Ubuntu (not tried on other distros). Swing based IDE like IntellijIDEA or Netbeans are better but they don't match their Windows counterpart. - Ubuntu or even kernel upgrades that tend to break things like for me a webcam support. I wish these problems were solved because as a developer I still prefer Unix based OS. It is very subjective but what has changed for me recently is that now I really find Ubuntu to be more visually appealing than Windows 8 (and same for Gnome 3.10). The login screen, the dash, software center are really nice. Even the Nautilus file manager that I used to dislike now looks really nice (now it is named Files) The desktop experience is much more "consistent" than it used to be and Ubuntu with Unity/Gnome shell and Gnome have worked hard to make the desktop user friendly and sexy.
anupshinde 13y ago
My dad is 60 and non-tech and he switched to Linux a month back. First Ubuntu but then to Mint because that felt similar to Windows. He hasn't complained even once. Personally I have to Windows only because my office dictates that - some of their software's wont work otherwise.
ungerik 13y ago
Let's see what will come out the current development of Ubuntu. Currently it kind of feels like the Windows Vista of Linux Distros. Slow and clumsy but usable if you don't know anything else. Will 14.04 be the Windows 8 of Linux Distros?
cstross 13y ago
Microsoft's desktop supremacy hasn't been down to "it's got a nice, easy to use interface" for at least 20 years. Rather, Microsoft is (or was, in the pre-post-PC world) everywhere because of (a) licensing stitch-ups with hardware vendors and (b) network externalities: get into Corporate IT departments with Office, then people will want (or need) to use the same OS at home, and then you can strong-arm hardware vendors into signing exclusive Windows-only-on-our-PCs licensing deals, which in turn convinces Corporate IT that there's no viable alternative to a Windows-only ecosystem ... Arguments about whether or not Linux is fit for desktop use by non-technical users miss the point: Windows' monopoly status was a virtuous circle (for a value of "virtuous" that approximates to "in the interests of MSFTs shareholders and provides job security for MCSEs") until the wheels fell off when confronted with an even bigger ecosystem that came out of nowhere. Which is the magic rabbit Apple pulled out of a hat with the iPad, and Google seeks to emulate with Android. The desktop is now irrelevant -- less than 10% of computing devices people use are desktops or laptops: it's all gone mobile frighteningly fast -- but for what it's worth, Linux won. Because the winning Linux desktop is actually a phonetop or tablet environment: Android.
- paul_f 13y ago
  This. No sane person should respond to "I need something simple" with "I'll install Windows"
- squid_ca 13y ago
  Serious question, since you have the stats: have people replaced 90% of their desktop and laptop usage with other computing devices, or do they now use computing devices generally 10x more than they used to? That is, just because we have smart phones etc, do we really use "computers" less than we used to? I doubt it, since I don't think tablets have replaced computers at work to that degree.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    I agree, I think cstross is extrapolating from sales, which (as per recent discussion[1]) is not a reasonable assumption to make. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6606056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6606056
davidcollantes 13y ago
Most people can do just fine by using a tablet or a Chrome machine. Microsoft and some PC hardware companies are in trouble, indeed.
V-2 13y ago
Is this such a success in 2013? That you don't need to be a guru to configure a printer and make use of it? I can't wrap my head around why people seem to hail it as some sort of a triumph that someone managed to use Ubuntu for "email, youtube, general browsing" without resorting to expert aid :) I mean, good for Linux, but isn't that an absolute minimum of what should be expected from a modern desktop OS?? Shouldn't it go without saying? :) If something as normal as that makes for news to share, it is a clear indication of how bad a reputation Linux has had for a long time
- DocG 13y ago
  I usually just restore shortcuts to desktop, because users can't do it themselves. Or change font size in word document. I would be impressed, if any of them would manage more. In my experience, configuring a printer is usually over head for normal user.
  - V-2 13y ago
    No plug and play?
    - DocG 13y ago
      some are, some need drivers. But in all seriousness, plugging printer power cable to power grid, plugging it to printer. Plugging usb cable to printer, plugging it to right port in computer. Switching printer on. Waiting for it to install. Knowing which printer to choose. It could take up to hours.
    - V-2 13y ago
      @DocG the hardware aspect is another story, because it's OS-independent, so I wouldn't even go into it.
lenkite 13y ago
AFter fighting with virii and malware upteen times on my Mom and Dad's laptops - which I have to correct every few months or so, I simply gave up on Windows and installed Ubuntu for them. I didn't even bother training them - just pointed them to a few tutorials and help.ubuntu.com. The only hard part where I had to chip in were the printer drivers...aargh. Frankly, windows required a lot more help. However, I will not deny that something like the Chromebook is a serious competitor to the Linux desktop - for the casual user.
stefs 13y ago
my dad salvaged an ancient notebook from work to use as a living room computer (usually if he sees something on TV that interests him, he starts googling it), or use for vacation planning etc. tried to install windows but failed twice due to errors i can't remember. i then told him, fuck it, as you use it only for surfing, we'll just put linux on it and installed ubuntu 8.10. worked like a charm. everything ran out of the box, no hassle, nothing. a week later i asked him how it was going; he answered: "everything's perfect, but i don't like desktop background - the skull." the skull ... what skull? then it dawned on me: "dad, that's not a skull - it's a stylized ibex." http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg
vu3rdd 13y ago
Back in 2002, I went for work to the US for about six months. Calling India on the telephone was quite expensive then, even with calling cards. So, I left my GNU/Linux machine at home with my parents and made it to login without password. It was running a version of KDE and had netscape mail. I used to connect to the internet using this little program called 'kppp' and there was a nice option in there to open any program of choice when a connection to the internet is made. So, I made it to open netscape mail on connection. My father was quite uninterested to learn to use the computer, though he took elaborate notes while I explained to him how to send and receive email. My mother who cannot write english, listened to what I was explaining. Both of them had never touched a computer before and had a tough time operating the mouse. Once they adjust the pointer to the right menu and they lift their hand up to click and the mouse pointer goes somewhere else. :) But at the end it worked quite well. My mother used the computer to send me email. She wrote transliterated malayalam (my native language). Both of us understood what we were talking about and we exchanged emails almost every day of my six months of stay. There were times when the internet service provider couldn't provide a connection to a ppp request and kppp printed weird error messages. I had a friend who used to visit my home and see if there are problems. Barring a couple of simple problems, it worked reasonably well. Every time someone complains that GNU/Linux is difficult to use, I narrate this story to them. Yes, there are still rough edges, but we have come a long long way since 2002. Oh, did I say my parents were both 60+ in 2002?
archer2013 13y ago
Many in comments acting like Ubuntu is teh only linux distro/UI out there, many of the linux community now despise Ubuntu and see it as an OSX wannabe, if you want a real linux experience install archlinux and pick from over 1 dozen Ui's (DE/WM's) surely one will fit your needs. personaly for programming you cannot beat xmonad, and for play you cant beat openbox.
mrb101 13y ago
I had bought my mother her first Netbook 2 years ago and i installed Ubuntu on it.. She is using it after like an hour introduction. While it was her first time to use a PC. 3 months ago my dad got her a new Laptop which had Windows on it. she called me the next day to install Ubuntu on it !
anthony_barker 13y ago
Family has been linux for the past 10 years... I would say about 3/4 years ago the complaints completely stopped with ubuntu 9.10. Since then there has been some pain with unity (which we disabled for a year or two). Older computers run either older versions of ubuntu or Elementary OS or Chrunchbang OS #! http://crunchbang.org/ http://crunchbang.org/. Occassionally people still need help with LibreOffice oddities. Also I've had intercompatibility issues with MS Office with powerpoint.
readme 13y ago
Linux has a chance to become a popular OS for home desktop use. However windows is going to retain it's grip on businesses because there is no good Active Directory replacement for Linux.
Eyes2design 13y ago
I have Linux Mint on my laptop and run I run Linux on all my computers. Best menu ever cinnamon.
mistercow 13y ago
The moment I really realized how much things have changed was when I plugged an old printer into a 64 bit Windows machine, searched for drivers, and finally found out that Microsoft's official position was "Buy a new printer". Then I plugged the printer into my laptop running Ubuntu and it said "Please wait while we set up your printer... OK your printer is ready to use". I used to advise novice users against Ubuntu because troubleshooting can get pretty hairy. But that's my ex-Mac user bias showing. Compared to Windows, it is at worst a toss-up, and I feel that's being very generous to Windows.
dsleno 13y ago
I am stuck with windows for now because we develop Windows software. But I have Virtual Box image of Ubuntu on this machine, which I use for web surfing and al manner of other activities. I just prefer Ubuntu. After having reformatted my Windows machine last week because of a bad virus infection, I have decided to do all of my web surfing on Ubuntu..
munimkazia 13y ago
I think it is just a matter of conditioning and habit. I have been using linux on and off for the past 5-6 years, but using it exclusively in the past 2 years. I am a little uncomfortable on Windows 7 now, and I am totally lost on windows 8. The UI isn't user friendly for me any more. I'd take Unity, or even Gnome 3 any day.
sammanual 13y ago
Nice -- just need to eliminate the "has to be Microsoft" mentality in the enterprise (our shop refuses open source anything since "there's no support model") and Linux can finally make in roads in the organization. But as they say - you don't get the big bucks for backing non-proven technology , ie., non-Microsoft solutions. SAD
geeknik 13y ago
I'd use Linux on my desktop if my entire Steam catalog would play under Linux, but since 99% of the games I play are Windows only, I'm stuck in the Windows world. ;)

395 points by itsboring 13y ago

robabbott 13y ago

My dad is 74. I rebuilt his laptop last year and replaced Windows XP with Unbuntu. He loves it and has had no issues with it.

itsboring 13y ago
That's awesome, love to hear stories like that.

nmridul 13y ago

The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office). The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something that they can do. Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.

itsboring 13y ago
Very true, if there are driver problems then it becomes a big ordeal. However, we must consider that most Windows installations are set up by an OEM, and in my case, it was already set up by me. In those situations, what matters most is the usability of the system after it's already set up. I doubt my parents would be able to install a fresh copy of either OS without my help.
- jrs99 13y ago
  My parents had no problems. They went on google, typed in the exact error messages, and found step by step instructions for basically every problem they had without really understanding what they were doing.
asveikau 13y ago
> Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Actually, in the majority of cases your OEM or your IT department does this. It's not uncommon to have missing drivers when doing a clean install from the stock image on the retail DVD. (Disclaimer: I have some history with this as I used to work in the team that created Windows Setup.)
- lespea 13y ago
  That was true back in the xp days but I haven't had to manually hunt down drivers in years. Although I still manually install my graphics drivers since the ones you get through windows update aren't near as current.
  - asveikau 13y ago
    Depends a lot on your hardware. I've had the most problems with network drivers. With 7.
  - yuhong 13y ago
    I think that is also partly because XP lasted a very long time.

spencera 13y ago

Just have to say, Apple has been working the usability angle a lot longer than Ubuntu and it doesn't seem to be upsetting Microsoft too much. Of course, this comes from a person who has never been able to rationalize spending his own money on a Mac.

itsboring 13y ago
That's true, but I do have to point out that I recently gave a mac mini to my mom before my dad started using the Ubuntu laptop. I went that direction rather than upgrading her PC from Vista, so it's cost them at least two sales. I realize that means nothing in the grand scheme, but I still feel it's a powerful anecdote given that my parents are "average" computer users.
- spencera 13y ago
  Interesting. I wonder if your father resorted to the Ubuntu laptop because your Mom refused to give up the mini :P
  - itsboring 13y ago
    Yeah, that's very possible. All I know is that neither of them have had to call me for help so far.
- stfu 13y ago
  Same here. A few years ago I got my mum a mac mini and no problems ever since. But I just can't get myself into buying one of those "things".
dubcanada 13y ago
I would actually disagree with that, as far as stats go Windows is losing market share. Not extremely fast, but they are.
nicolethenerd 13y ago
Exactly - Apple products are expensive - despite their usability, not all users are willing to pay a premium for that. On the other hand, if there was a highly-usable free alternative to Windows (which Linux seems like it's well on its way to becoming), that might be a different story. Of course, being free, Linux doesn't have the marketing budget that Apple does - so I don't see it stealing too much of Microsoft's market share any time soon. (And then of course there's the fact that Windows machines are actually subsidized by Microsoft, making Windows effectively cheaper than free. Plus all the other factors that make folks Windows users - the proprietary software, use in schools, etc.)

skuunk1 13y ago

The only real trouble with Linux is possible driver issues (caused by trying to shoehorn an OS onto hardware for which it wasn't initially designed). If more OEMs would put Linux onto laptops directly this wouldn't be a problem. It's still tough to find a good, decently priced laptop OEMed with Linux though. I can't get my hands on the Dell XPS with Ubuntu pre-installed in my current country of residence...

awesomerly 13y ago
Please define "shoehorn an OS". Linux generally runs on most modern hardware and arguably is a better general purpose OS than Windows.
- hatsix 13y ago
  Support for Optimus is horrible. Even if you get it all working, you still can't use both the LCD and an external monitor seamlessly. (i.e. you can see a desktop on both, but you can't move windows from one to another) You CAN do this if you turn off Optimus and just use the NVidia card... but it cuts battery life down by 40%... :-/
  - dublinben 13y ago
    That's really nVidia's fault, for not providing proper drivers. Intel and AMD's integrated GPUs are well supported with few issues.
    - hatsix 13y ago
      Absolutely, but it is a counter-example to the "runs great on modern hardware" statement.
- skuunk1 13y ago
  I am a huge Ubuntu fanboy (I am even installing it on my old Vaio as I write this), but I would love to have it running on hardware that was designed from the ground up for Ubuntu instead of having to patch together various drivers and troll through forums looking trying to find out how to get the mic and camera working (etc...).

spokenn 13y ago

I installed xubuntu on a 60+ year old man's laptop. It was surprising to see him go from typing "www.google.com" in the yahoo homepage search field to searching for and installing packages on the software center. He needed help when he updated the kernel but he has taught himself a ton of things.

barbs 13y ago

I find this is especially true when comparing to the mess that is Windows 8. Just finding the power button in that OS is a nightmare. It's also interesting to see that it was Ubuntu, presumably with the new Unity interface. It's not something I personally like or even find intuitive, but it looks like it's fairly easy to pick up even for non-technical people. Along with the push by Valve to support Linux, I really hope this increases take-up of linux on the desktop. Sent from my Linux desktop. :)

itsboring 13y ago
Agree completely, I feel like it would have actually been harder to teach my parents windows 8 than the systems they're using now. Trying to explain the difference between the metro screen and the desktop just sounds like a nightmare.
Nursie 13y ago
I went to my Dad's place a few months back. He had a new win 8 laptop and asked me how to get going with it, he's not an idiot and has been using windows since the 3.x days. As a linux guy I had trouble too but we got there. I went back two weeks later and he had a Mac.

chimeracoder 13y ago

Linux Mint is actually a very easy and natural transition from Windows. A few years ago, I installed Linux on my parents' desktop (dual-boot)[0] and told them that they were "forbidden" to use any other computer for web browsing, document editing, etc. I told them that this would be more secure, and that's all it took to convince them. I figured that, this way, at least I could fix any of their computer problems remotely (over ssh), instead of helping with Windows on the phone. It's been 2 or 3 years now, and they've had zero problems. I haven't even needed to ssh in except to do periodic software updates (which, even then, are superfluous for their purposes). [0] My dad's work requires some very specific Windows-only software

itsboring 13y ago
I think Mint is a wonderful distro, always love using it. I'd set dad up with that, but he's made so much progress with Ubuntu that I don't want to upset the apple cart at this point. Maybe in a year or two.
- garg 13y ago
  You could probably install cappuccino on Ubuntu as another option and then he's half way there to mint.
ams6110 13y ago
The thing is Windows XP, with all its warts, will still run comfortably on a 6 or 8 year PC that was low-end when it was new. A few weeks ago, when my wife's old XP computer finally wouldn't boot anymore I got a new hard drive and tried to run Ubuntu on it. Couldn't even get through the installer without it freezing up. Lubuntu installed but wasn't stable. OpenBSD with KDE was pretty good, and I would have stayed with that but lucked out and was able to get a clean low-level copy of the old hard drive to a new one using 'dd' and get back to the original system.
- tomrod 13y ago
  Try building up from ubuntu minimal instead. I've had a lot of luck going that route with older hardware. It does require access to a wired connection though.

wting 13y ago

Both my parents are 60+. My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a tablet if it weren't for the fact that she visits a lot of flash sites (Chinese TV streaming sites). Likewise my dad is on another Ubuntu machine at home. His work needs access to some software / printers that can't be run via Wine so he's stuck with Windows there. I tried to convert my 25 year old brother as well, but he switched back to Windows after a month. Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new system and preferred Windows.

pwnna 13y ago
This is really interesting. I would love to see if there is anything about this generation of people not liking technology changes.
- wting 13y ago
  My brother has become proficient at using Windows, so his switching costs are higher. He didn't want to learn the Linux equivalent of task manager, adding startup applications, updating / installing software. Also he's in finance so 99% of his work is spent in Excel. By comparison my parents are rudimentary users of technology, and thus their switching costs are low. As long as there is Firefox / Chrome they're ok. Some Chinese sites still depend on ActiveX but they've been replaced with Flash for the most part.
  - sandGorgon 13y ago
    This is the real reason. Excel. There is simply no replacement for it. If there was, the usage of Linux would double within days.
    - pavs 13y ago
      I don't use excel in professional level so I don't know much about it. Is there a vast difference between MS Excel and Linux (OSS) equivalent, or something like Google docs?

jrs99 13y ago

my entire family uses linux. We just find it much easier to use and install things. But the number one reason, of course, no malware, which happens every time kids use my computer on windows.

danielrhodes 13y ago

I think that over time everybody gets to a certain level of proficiency where such interfaces and concepts are not as daunting to them as before. Back in the 90s and even 00s, people were so uncomfortable with GUIs and then the internet that getting them to try a Windows alternative was not worth the effort.

ams6110 13y ago
Also the huge popularity of tablets and smartphones have made people less fearful of different UI conventions and more willing to explore and figure things out.
- itsboring 13y ago
  This is a very keen observation, I feel like mobile devices have helped a ton with breaking the chokehold that Gates and Ballmer have had on the industry.

jrs99 13y ago

Just among friends and family, I find that Linux dominates the desktop.

oddshocks 13y ago

My parents have both rocked Ubuntu and Fedora, with minimal instruction from me. The interfaces/distros seem to come naturally.

arbuge 13y ago

This is one way to look at it. Here's another: I have Ubuntu on a couple of machines at home and still can't get them to talk to my Brother MFC-685CW printer. I'm a PhD in EECS.

eliben 13y ago
That's a sad reality in hardware that's not standards compliant, so only specific tuned-for-Windows/OSX drivers work. FWIW, there are decent drivers for HP OfficeJet wireless printers, and printing "just works" from Ubuntu.
hobs 13y ago
Here's another: old people are smarter than PHDs. (tongue in cheek)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- _random_ 13y ago
  It means I have seen people who were smarter than themselves :).
sandyarmstrong 13y ago
In my experience, printer compatibility is worse in Windows 8 than in Linux. I've seen lots of common budget laser printers stop being supported in Vista, 7, and 8. Linux has plenty of compatibility problems (scanners are especially bad, imho), but printing is not typically one of them.
codys 13y ago
Well, hassle Brother to release some Free printer drivers. They are one of the last major holdouts.
- skittles 13y ago
  Brother has deb and rpm packages for that printer.

kunai 13y ago

Handed a GNOME 3 PC to my dad. He got it right away. The multitasking in GNOME is just so fluid and efficient compared to any other operating environment, and it's just so... intuitive. As an OS X user, I find GNOME more consistent and easy to use, to be quite honest with you. I'm just holding out until Wine gets to the point where CS6 is supported.

sbuk 13y ago
Let me start by say that I am actually a fan of Linux, but not much of a fan of the community that surrounds it and for what it's worth, this is just my opinion. Obviously everybody's milage will undoubtedly vary! My personal experience of Gnome 3 is the polar opposite of yours. I cannot stand it. The UI elements are just horrible and I find the paradigm clunky and lacking in coherence. In fact I find the experience similar to Windows 8, with it's confused metaphors. Unity, while visually more appealing is not much better in terms of usability; the lens paradigm I find irksome. While there is no doubt, IMHO, that it should be surprising that anyone can get "real" work done with the software available on the various Linux desktops available, I feel that there has be a regression in the UX that really does need addressing.
- sbuk 13y ago
  That last line should read: "While there is no doubt, IMHO, that it shouldn't be surprising that anyone can get "real" work done..." WTF is "real work" anyway?

Morgawr 13y ago

I had been trying to get my parents to move to Linux for a long time and now, after a few months of struggles, it seems they are actually liking it (xubuntu). It all started years ago when my dad got a virus on the windows laptop, then I told him to use Linux (all they do is watch movies and browse the web) and installed Ubuntu for them. My mother got angry at me because she couldn't use Internet Explorer (ugh) and it "looked different" even though my dad was enjoying it, so we had to revert back to Windows... turns out half a year later they are full of viruses and crap, with a thousand toolbars in the browsers and all that stuff. They asked me for help to clean the PC and I pretty much told them that they need Linux if they want to get rid of viruses (I moved to another country so I have no time to go back there and fix it every time they get a virus). My dad managed to convince my mom to use Linux, he pretty much forced her to tell you the truth, however now they both love Xubuntu and have been using it for more than a year without problems. They both think it's actually faster and cleaner than Windows. I'm happy.

solnyshok 13y ago
friend of a friend kept bringing me old xp laptop with that 'cyber police, transfer money to us' extortion-virus. when it happened third time in half a year, I installed mint in dual boot for him and haven't heard from him ever again.

lucb1e 13y ago

This thread is awesome. It always feels like I'm the only person on the planet using linux in school; school requires us to use Windows and teaches several other proprietary vendor lock-ins; and very, very few friends actually use Linux, even though most are programmers. Tomorrow I'm going to an open source event, mostly to show support for foss in general. Ironically the event will be in school: the very thing most important for the future generation of programmers and yet a place teaching us to be dependant on expensive, limiting and non-free software. Reading this thread I almost feel that showing support is not needed that much anymore. We're there; our goal is reached. Too bad it's not. Monday morning I'll still be required to prove my competence (dependence?) in using certain non-free software while running the school's spyware in the background... which only runs on Windows. Ten years ago the Dutch government unanimously agreed semi-public institutions should use open software. In 2013, nothing changed. Even despite the Snowden news, it feels like we're still at square one. At least threads like these give me hope :)

sliverstorm 13y ago
What do you mean, nobody uses Linux? At my Uni, in CS you couldn't not use one *nix or another. All the classwork happened on some timeshares.
- lucb1e 13y ago
  That sounds like it should be really. As far as I know, this isn't the case for Dutch, French and Argentinian schools (the ones I have experience with, or know someone that has experience with).
  - S4M 13y ago
    When I was student in France, in a "grande ecole" it was all Windows. When I did an Msc in a standard university (Jussieu), they were using Ubuntu. This was in 2005, maybe it has changed...
ma2rten 13y ago
What kind of Dutch school is that? High school? I studied Computer Science at University of Amsterdam. I think I was the only one who was using windows. (I would ssh into a university computer to do most programming).

auctiontheory 13y ago

I wish Evernote supported Linux.

seth_hg 13y ago
try everpad(https://github.com/nvbn/everpad https://github.com/nvbn/everpad). It's not perfect but it works.

SylonZero 13y ago

The time for MS and Windows is passing. I guarantee it.

itsboring 13y ago
Man, I hope so.(speaking as someone who worked at msft for 2 years)
mukundmr 13y ago
Microsoft India sent me an email announcing a 15% hike in cost of their software in 2014. They wanted me to renew some of the subscriptions early. I do hope they wake up to reality.

rpgmaker 13y ago

I use Linux and I find this post sad actually. It's 2013 and Linux users are still insecure enough about the OS to gush about someone using the OS for something productive? Isn't that what all of us have been doing all this time?

broodbucket 13y ago
Yes, us. People on Hacker News are either professionals in some technical industry or enthusiasts, for the most part (I'd imagine). On the other hand, if someone who isn't tech savvy can use it over another system that they've been trained to use for many years, then that's significant.

sprizzle 13y ago

I had a similar experience with my cousin, except with Chrome OS. His laptop died and he asked to borrow any extra laptops I had around, and the only one I happened to have was a Chrome OS machine. I was worried he'd need a more desktop-like environment, but it turned out he loved it -- everything we do is on the web these days and there wasn't really anything that he was missing. He moved from Excel to Google Spreadsheets without much trouble and didn't really need anything else. Just a browser. Amazing where the web is going.

marcloney 13y ago

This is a fantastic anecodote and after the year we've had I'm finding the challenges people are having from entering Linux are becoming less and less. Earlier today I marvelled at running a game through Steam whilst listening to streaming music through Spotify whilst being able to switch window into bash.

itsboring 13y ago
At work, I threw arch on an old-ass laptop we had sitting around, and then installed steam and portal, hooked it up to the office TV and then had to sit there a minute to marvel at the fact that it all just worked. Never would have predicted that a decade+ ago.

trentmb 13y ago

I tried making my parents use *nix. It didn't go over well. My worthless anecdote counters yours.

itsboring 13y ago
Fair enough, but the point was that I ddin't force anything. Like I said in the post, I offered to get him a windows license, but he didn't need it. I didn't try "making" them use anything, as you put it.
- trentmb 13y ago
  I provided a free computer no different than yourself. Sorry if my original verb use was misleading.

jacknews 13y ago

"I was pretty much floored." Indeed, because old people are all idiots. Honestly, for the basic tasks, the major OS's are as easy as each other these days.

itsboring 13y ago
Wasn't meaning to imply that, he's not stupid in the least. What I was impressed with was the initiative, as many users are afraid to make a change like that on their own.

weslly 13y ago

Same thing with my mum. I installed Ubuntu on her slightly old laptop a couple of years ago and when she bought a new computer she asked me to replace Windows 8 (which she found pretty confusing) with Ubuntu again.

jmspring 13y ago

My dad replaced his XP netbook with an older 11" MB Air I had. He has since downloaded Xcode 5 and started working on learning objective C in his mid 60s. His only subsequent request was figuring out a solution for my mother's machine requirements around an iPad. She's one of those that clicks on emails they shouldn't.

georgebarnett 13y ago
My mother (65) never took to computers. I gave her a laptop years ago, but the scary keyboard/trackpad black setup combined with the 60 minute charge (this was 2001) means she never touched it. When HP had a fire sale, I sent her one and she loves it. I think the interaction model is more friendly for her than the unknowns if a trackpad and windows.

dhughes 13y ago

My 70 year-old mom can't handle the swipe unlock on an Android phone and won't answer or use it if I unlock it. My dad also 70 is OK with using it and even put on a password but he keeps shutting it off when he isn't using it, neither use a computer.

ivanbrussik 13y ago

I've been using Linux since Redhat 4.0, whatever kernal version that was. I've always been a "desktop" user but very much know my way around bash and can throw together pipes and scripts. Last week I setup a fresh Ubuntu box in our office, on a fairly new Dell PC in order to view a webinar. I wanted to show off Linux (ended up looking like a moron.) Flash issues on Firefox rightaway, no matter what I did it would not let me full screen a YT video in the second monitor. Finally I figured a hack to F11 full screen the browser window and it let me. Next the sound wouldn't work and I had to apt-get for another 10 minutes, then spend another 2 minutes editing som config file. Somehow it worked. I freaking LOVE Linux and will always love it, but it has a very long way to go until it can ship on any device.

ewzimm 13y ago
I feel the same way about Windows. Endless issues with printers and drivers especially. But somehow it has managed to hold on to market share with fractured hardware support. If hardware vendors had better Linux support, there would be no problems. Mac OS can only work well as it does because Apple optimizes the OS for the hardware. Fortunately, we are starting to see some good hardware support from vendors like System76, but their ultrabooks still don't result from close collaboration between software and hardware engineers, and they get 5 hours battery life for the Macbook Air's 15. I hope hardware vendors continue to hire more Linux specialists and we see a reversal of this trend.
n1ghtmare_ 13y ago
That's pretty much my experience with Linux (Ubuntu). I used it for 2 years and I like it, but dude I was in config files and consoles all the freaking time, I mean it, every single day something.
- hrkristian 13y ago
  That was my experience with Ubuntu as well, then I switched distro. That mess gets too much hype.
girvo 13y ago
I've had that experience with Windows (7, as it happens) myself. That said, I also agree that there are a number of rough edges that haven't been smoothed out, which frustrates me. That's why I'm getting involved in development with Elementary OS :)

viame 13y ago

Very nice, I bought my mom a Macbook Air, but I will try installing Ubuntu on my dads laptop and see how it goes. I would also like to see some high-end construction homes he does, if possible. Thanks

tumes 13y ago

Second time I've had to preface a post like this, not to sound like a dick, but is HN just turning in to r/circlejerk? Glad we have a bunch of parents using Linux, but I'm slightly perplexed by this article's front-page status.

general_failure 13y ago

My mom use kubuntu for over 4 years now. She actually had never seen computers since she was 60. She had her learning curve but she loves it.

pippy 13y ago

For about last five years most linux flavours have been more usable than windows. Ubuntu and Debian have superb out of the box experiences, even more so given the disaster that was Windows 8. For example ElementaryOS is by far one of the best UI out there right now, and Gnome 3.1 finally pulled finger and created everything I'd been wanting in a desktop shell. But the real "year of the Linux desktop" will only ever happen when manufactures get behind it. Like it or not, ChromeOS was a major step in the right direction. The complicated relationship that Microsoft has with their OEM partners and their Surface fiasco might be the bump that will cause the Wintel tower of cards to start falling. I'm interested in why OEM partners even still use Windows given it's a major cost and their profit margins are so thin. It's been a renaissance in instruction set architectures in the last decade with ARM taking over many market segments, and this is something that costs less and Linux has a huge advantage in. Windows will take years to catch up in terms of ARM compatibility and even then it's likely that it will be extremely limited.

ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
Linus seems to agree with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o
special 13y ago
I'm so pleased to see people talking about elementary OS. It's a cool project. Some links for the lurkers: http://elementaryos.org/ http://elementaryos.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(operating_system) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(operating_system)

Gnarl 13y ago

I'm gonna set my 70+ neighbor up with Linux because the Vista that the computer shop sold her a few years ago as "the future" is dying miserably (all by itself, she doesn't install tons o' stuff) and she also feels it's a slow pain to use. I'm a freelance consultant so she asked me how to get rid of all the "problems" (meaning BSODs, malware, viruses etc.) because she needs to get real work done. When I mentioned I use Linux and never have a BSOD or virus, she asked me if I could "upgrade her computer to Linux" - her words :) So, Linux Mint is going on my ol' neighbor's PC.

goombastic 13y ago
Try Elementary OS. The thing is a joy to use.

hnriot 13y ago

I think this, and the rest of the comments have missed the point, It's not linux or windows really that's going on, but that "computing" for the masses has shrunk down to the browser and Office (or it's clones) - the operating system these days has become marginalized for most people. the File Open dialog is about as far as they interact with it, along with CTRL P and the dock. Linux is perfectly capable of this. I run linux on my laptop, I run hadoop, a virtualbox for some VM's, a dozen terminal windows spread over two monitors and python. When I go home I have a similar setup on a MBP and most of the time I can't tell one from the other. The operating system, even for development has become quite irrelevant. I havnen't tried windows in decades... have they fixed the C: nonsense yet, or (stupidly) using the wrong slash in file paths!

ilyanep 13y ago
Nope, and (to contradict your point a little bit) I pretty much refuse to do development tasks on Windows because it's the one remaining OS on which I find it impossible to be productive. Have you ever tried working in a Windows command line compared to a UNIX terminal? Yes, I can install cygwin, but I really feel like I shouldn't have to.
- undergroundhero 13y ago
  If you're doing any work at all with .NET, Visual Studio is the greatest IDE in the world. Believe it or not, people can be productive without a command line--especially if you can use VS to automatically generate thousands of lines of code.
- itsboring 13y ago
  I tried using cygwin for a while too, but I finally gave up and tossed windows out the...uh...window. The cygwin folks have made a heroic effort, but it still feels like putting lipstick on a pig.
  - bnolsen 13y ago
    start up SSH server in cygwin and life gets much better.

laurenstill 13y ago

I successfully converted several medical practices to Ubuntu last year. 60+ yr old docs who printed emails to leave on my desk. 18 yr old who save everything to the desktop. Better than expected.

lennexz 13y ago

My sister(a student) got a new windows laptop and it was full of viruses and unusable within 4 weeks. She used to use my ubuntu machine before her new one so she did the next logical thing...asked me to install ubuntu for her. She has never looked back since

danielholmlund 13y ago

I need to brag a little because I'm proud of my dad. He's 63 years old and can boot his Grub configuration to 14 different Linux distros last time I looked ( which was about 8 months ago ). Yes, he is technically inclined.

ateeqs 13y ago

Microsoft is in trouble for other reasons, as well. Windows 8 and 8.1 suck. They just don't listen to anyone-- developers, enterprises, home-users, you name it. "They'll shove a xyzw down your throat and you'll like it" has been their philosophy for quite some time-- be it .NET, Ribbon interface, Metro, etc. They are quickly (erm slowly) becoming irrelevant, and it's mainly as a result of this practice.

vayarajesh 13y ago

Thats nice!.. soon ubuntu mobile os will be out.. your dad will be happy to know that i guess :).

elwell 13y ago

My Grandma couldn't understand the concept when I showed here how to browse the internet. She kept wanting to have what she was seeing be on paper.

tn13 13y ago

Nothing surprising at all my parents are perfectly at ease with Ubuntu.

smcnally 13y ago

My mom's 81. Ubuntu's been her primary OS for 3+ years. Started with Windows on a low-end Dell laptop. When any of her 19 grandkids played on it, they'd leave new toolbars and malware behind. The machine got so slow, she was happy to see her email and browser on Linux.

bartkappenburg 13y ago

As I'm reading through the comments I see only two types of users: - the hackernews audience - 60+ low level users (no offence) The former group has enough experience and knowlegde to get the system (linux) adapted to their needs. The latter are only using it for either browsing, checking email or watching movies. I think we're forgetting the important 'middle' group: the ones that aren't in IT but are working with a PC daily for their work. Linux is getting no real traction there (yet!) because of the poor native support of tools that are pretty common the in corporate world. Think: - vpn software - voip tools - login procedures - custom software - etc etc I'm not seeing this fixed in the near future...

pavs 13y ago
The only reason Linux is not more mainstream than Windows is because its not pre-installed on your computer when you buy. Even installing popular linux distros like Ubuntu from scratch on a new system is much easier than installing a Windows OS on a new system. I recently had this experience and I was stunned to see that for Windows I had to search and download vendor specific drivers for windows to even work with my monitor properly. I did the same with Ubuntu and no special driver needed to be installed. But only after completing the installation and seeing that everything works as it should, I had the option to install proprietary drivers (I don't have any philosophical problem with them) but I chose not to because it was working just fine. I don't know if this is common maybe someone with more experience can vouch for it?
- Raphael 13y ago
  Windows 8.1 downloads drivers without prompt.
- _random_ 13y ago
  Yeah, and the only reason WP is not more mainstream than Android/iOS is because it's not pre-installed on your Samsung Galaxy/iPhone when you buy.
  - pavs 13y ago

richardjordan 13y ago

Thanks for sharing. I know my comment adds little but I wanted to throw out there a nod of appreciation for a story like this.

ofj 13y ago

Same story for me.both my parents are using Ubuntu on 1 PC and 1 Laptop. Since I've installed and set them up, I never had a single call like: where the hell is X or why the hell is Y producing strange error popup...not even speaking of the complete absence of malware. I myself did not even expect this when starting this experiment, but it proves to me: Linux IS arriving at the desktop! ...and its about time.

kaazih 13y ago

The first computer i donated to my folks was win 3.1 no internet. Then win nt 4 still no internet. Finally xp with a dial up connection. Now in their 70's they don't use a computer at all. Finally no more support issues.

ramigb 13y ago

After i read this thread and since i was really busy in the past couple of months, i just realized that for the first time ever all my devices (2 laptops, 1 desktop) are all Ubuntu, and yet i didn't feel i needed to change anything, i think the cloud based apps + the nature of my work (programming) made the choice on my behalf and i couldn't agree more!.

salilpa 13y ago

A couple of years ago, our home desktop which had windows 7 died. My parents needed a new desktop and i gave them my old laptop running ubuntu. Most of the time, my parents use it to browse websites and little bit of spreadsheet and powerpoint. The default ubuntu installation had all that. Also the flash support has increased considerably. There was a time when hangouts or facebook video chat had issues. now it works butter smooth

pulmo 13y ago

My mom is 50+ and used XP for a couple of years before my dad installed Xubuntu on her netbook. Turned out she didn't really need Microsoft Word for writing, she only used it because she knows it from work. Same with Outlook. I think many users are in a similar situation and could easily switch platforms saving money for both hardware and software. The only reason why there is still an old Windows PC at my parents home is the Adobe Software for their Sony ebook reader. (Damn you, DRM!)

wildgift 13y ago

I gave a linux pc to my coworker, for her kids, and they have been using it for a while to do homework. They have some issues now and then, but it works pretty smoothly. The computer is really old - a Sempron with a couple gigs of RAM.

fit2rule 13y ago

My in-laws, 60+, have been running Ubuntu on their old Macbooks for a few years now. They've never once complained about it, and everything Just Plain Works - internet browsing, email, youtube, office-apps. For us, at least, the year of the Linux Desktop was two years ago. Its been a very productive release from the dual hegemonies of both Apple and Microsoft ..

dawkins 13y ago

My father is 81 and very happy with linux mint that I installed for him a few years ago. He only uses chromium. Recently he bought a new laptop and the first thing he asked me was to install Linux.

lignuist 13y ago

After my nephew's laptop (Windows) stopped working two or three years ago, I bought one with pre-installed Ubuntu for him and introduced him to Open Office and Gimp. During the first few weeks, he missed some of his games, but he got used to it pretty fast. No he is using it for studying and everything else and I never heard of any problems afterwards.

itsbits 13y ago

I see many people against windows...I have 2 PCs one with linux(programming) and windows(gaming)..Windows is not that bad for programming as well...its just the set up for your coding env matters....i do sometimes end up programming in windows after playing some game..so i have some tools etc installed which give me almost equal experience of doing it with linux...saying that i still prefer linux laptop for coding, one reason can be addictive games missing in linux...

chmike 13y ago

The only reason I keep a windows machine around is because of Word/Powerpoint. I can get ork done with these. Open/libreOffice are pale copies. I also played some games like TF2 or Age of Empire, but the former is now playable on Ubuntu. Steam is doing an impressive work. For programming, I prefer QtCreator to Visual Studio. I regret QtCreator can't be used with other languages like D, Go, Java. I don't think I'll make the switch to windows 8. My father 82 bought a new computer and Dell only sell Windows 8 on these. This costed him a lot of time to adapt for no justified benefit.

itsboring 13y ago
QtCreator is great, I don't get enough chances to work with it (mostly doing C# in monodevelop). VS has really annoyed me lately when I've had to hop into windows. Way too much "waiting for background task to complete" stuff going on.
csdreamer7 13y ago
You can direct your parents to system76.com next time they buy a computer. Trust me, as a fellow Dell user there going to need a new computer soon.

fsniper 13y ago

I'm a Pro-linuxer and never have any Windows machines near my home. So this means, Ubuntu netbooks and laptops all around and my mom and sister is very familiar with Linux. They are using these easily. Once I found out my sister tried to install wine via source code :) She needed some windows software for some firmware update and all her research lead her to wine and source code install. The thing is she did not asked me anything about the whole process.

_random_ 13y ago
Lions can eat tofu if that is the only thing available to them. Should've given them a choice between Mac/Lin/Win.
- fsniper 13y ago
  They have been using Windows before hand.. At least my sister.

txutxu 13y ago

The main point here, is in your "My parents are NOT technical people". They do not have pre-juices on stuff. My mum uses linux since she was 65. It was her _first_ contact with an O.S., she did learn to use most things on her own. In all that cases, they didn't deal with hardware choices, software stack choices, incompatibilities in those layers... they just did get a working browser, spreadsheet or messenger... and used it.

hrktb 13y ago

The main point might be that your parents aren't technical people (whatever that means), and the laptop was set from the start (they never had to care about hardware compatibilities). We did a similar thing with my inlaws, leaving an ipad behind to facetime with their grandson, and recently they called because they couldn't see their new mails anymore (their provider changed the imap servers), they also happened to mainly browse sites on the ipad now, installed a few other apps for learning english and we don't hear about windows problems as much as before (they still need the laptop for standard Word/Excel/Powerpoint work and to print since they don't own a blessed HP model) As you did we give them an opportunity to switch to linux, but they would need a well supported and preinstalled machine somehow, and that's not trivial to find. DELL seems to have some available on their net store, but it's a hard pill to swallow for people used to buy VAIO laptops in person and in store (not that they cared about the brand, but they look very nice and the sales person is reassuring). Going the Apple route would bring more or less the same upsides as ubuntu, while skipping all the hardware support parts, giving real exclusive advantages (battery life etc), the bonus being they'd see anouncement in the press they'd understand what the fuss it is about. Linux could be viable, but it seems too late now that the Apple lineup is leaps and bound ahead of everyone else.

malaporte 13y ago
"their provider changed the imap server" "learning english" Funny, I had to fix a very similar issue with my french in-laws IMAP just yesterday. Just for science, are your in-laws French and using Free.fr as an ISP?
- hrktb 13y ago
  They could have been as well, my parents are in France with orange, and they don't seem happy either.

cycojesus 13y ago

In my experience only people who think they know something about computer have problem with Linux. My wife and my mother are Linux users without even knowing what it is and they have exactly zero issue with it.

0xc000005 13y ago

even a dead cat has a better user interface than windows 8.x

andreiursan 13y ago

After reading most off the coments. It feels that we are going in the right and healthy direction. People will be able to chose what OS they want without losing the benefits of actualy doing useful work. Some will want Windows 8, some will go for Linux and some for Mac OS. We are not yet there, but having a healty market distribution of the major OSes will benefit the end-user.

bengalister 13y ago

Linux becomes more and more usable for non-technical users and has done a lot usability-wise on desktops but let's face it there's still a long way to go. If for instance you use Ubuntu (the most popular distro for desktop), it is still plagued by bugs(and even the Long Term Support version). Have a look also at the Linux Mint forums it seems better but many users complain about buggy Cinammon. Well all in all, the desktop environments suffer of more bugs than on Windows or Mac. Here are the reasons that keep me switching for my home PC (Ubuntu is only installed on my spare PC that I use for testing) : - No decent Flash support. The hardware acceleration by the GPU has been disabled (no option to enable it) and when I watch videos on youtube CPU reaches 100%. There's still Chrome which has its own Flash player and it improves significantly with a CPU consumption of around 50% but still far from I got on Windows 7 between 10 and 20%... - Battery draining : again a hot topic and mostly related to bad integration with popular graphic cards and other hardware components (wifi cards) but most people complain of reduced usage on battery (50%) compared to Windows. - For Java developers who use Eclipse, SWT looks ugly and performs badly on Ubuntu (not tried on other distros). Swing based IDE like IntellijIDEA or Netbeans are better but they don't match their Windows counterpart. - Ubuntu or even kernel upgrades that tend to break things like for me a webcam support. I wish these problems were solved because as a developer I still prefer Unix based OS. It is very subjective but what has changed for me recently is that now I really find Ubuntu to be more visually appealing than Windows 8 (and same for Gnome 3.10). The login screen, the dash, software center are really nice. Even the Nautilus file manager that I used to dislike now looks really nice (now it is named Files) The desktop experience is much more "consistent" than it used to be and Ubuntu with Unity/Gnome shell and Gnome have worked hard to make the desktop user friendly and sexy.

anupshinde 13y ago

My dad is 60 and non-tech and he switched to Linux a month back. First Ubuntu but then to Mint because that felt similar to Windows. He hasn't complained even once. Personally I have to Windows only because my office dictates that - some of their software's wont work otherwise.

ungerik 13y ago

Let's see what will come out the current development of Ubuntu. Currently it kind of feels like the Windows Vista of Linux Distros. Slow and clumsy but usable if you don't know anything else. Will 14.04 be the Windows 8 of Linux Distros?

cstross 13y ago

Microsoft's desktop supremacy hasn't been down to "it's got a nice, easy to use interface" for at least 20 years. Rather, Microsoft is (or was, in the pre-post-PC world) everywhere because of (a) licensing stitch-ups with hardware vendors and (b) network externalities: get into Corporate IT departments with Office, then people will want (or need) to use the same OS at home, and then you can strong-arm hardware vendors into signing exclusive Windows-only-on-our-PCs licensing deals, which in turn convinces Corporate IT that there's no viable alternative to a Windows-only ecosystem ... Arguments about whether or not Linux is fit for desktop use by non-technical users miss the point: Windows' monopoly status was a virtuous circle (for a value of "virtuous" that approximates to "in the interests of MSFTs shareholders and provides job security for MCSEs") until the wheels fell off when confronted with an even bigger ecosystem that came out of nowhere. Which is the magic rabbit Apple pulled out of a hat with the iPad, and Google seeks to emulate with Android. The desktop is now irrelevant -- less than 10% of computing devices people use are desktops or laptops: it's all gone mobile frighteningly fast -- but for what it's worth, Linux won. Because the winning Linux desktop is actually a phonetop or tablet environment: Android.

paul_f 13y ago
This. No sane person should respond to "I need something simple" with "I'll install Windows"
squid_ca 13y ago
Serious question, since you have the stats: have people replaced 90% of their desktop and laptop usage with other computing devices, or do they now use computing devices generally 10x more than they used to? That is, just because we have smart phones etc, do we really use "computers" less than we used to? I doubt it, since I don't think tablets have replaced computers at work to that degree.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  I agree, I think cstross is extrapolating from sales, which (as per recent discussion[1]) is not a reasonable assumption to make. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6606056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6606056

davidcollantes 13y ago

Most people can do just fine by using a tablet or a Chrome machine. Microsoft and some PC hardware companies are in trouble, indeed.

V-2 13y ago

Is this such a success in 2013? That you don't need to be a guru to configure a printer and make use of it? I can't wrap my head around why people seem to hail it as some sort of a triumph that someone managed to use Ubuntu for "email, youtube, general browsing" without resorting to expert aid :) I mean, good for Linux, but isn't that an absolute minimum of what should be expected from a modern desktop OS?? Shouldn't it go without saying? :) If something as normal as that makes for news to share, it is a clear indication of how bad a reputation Linux has had for a long time

DocG 13y ago
I usually just restore shortcuts to desktop, because users can't do it themselves. Or change font size in word document. I would be impressed, if any of them would manage more. In my experience, configuring a printer is usually over head for normal user.
- V-2 13y ago
  No plug and play?
  - DocG 13y ago
    some are, some need drivers. But in all seriousness, plugging printer power cable to power grid, plugging it to printer. Plugging usb cable to printer, plugging it to right port in computer. Switching printer on. Waiting for it to install. Knowing which printer to choose. It could take up to hours.
  - V-2 13y ago
    @DocG the hardware aspect is another story, because it's OS-independent, so I wouldn't even go into it.

lenkite 13y ago

AFter fighting with virii and malware upteen times on my Mom and Dad's laptops - which I have to correct every few months or so, I simply gave up on Windows and installed Ubuntu for them. I didn't even bother training them - just pointed them to a few tutorials and help.ubuntu.com. The only hard part where I had to chip in were the printer drivers...aargh. Frankly, windows required a lot more help. However, I will not deny that something like the Chromebook is a serious competitor to the Linux desktop - for the casual user.

stefs 13y ago

my dad salvaged an ancient notebook from work to use as a living room computer (usually if he sees something on TV that interests him, he starts googling it), or use for vacation planning etc. tried to install windows but failed twice due to errors i can't remember. i then told him, fuck it, as you use it only for surfing, we'll just put linux on it and installed ubuntu 8.10. worked like a charm. everything ran out of the box, no hassle, nothing. a week later i asked him how it was going; he answered: "everything's perfect, but i don't like desktop background - the skull." the skull ... what skull? then it dawned on me: "dad, that's not a skull - it's a stylized ibex." http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg

vu3rdd 13y ago

Back in 2002, I went for work to the US for about six months. Calling India on the telephone was quite expensive then, even with calling cards. So, I left my GNU/Linux machine at home with my parents and made it to login without password. It was running a version of KDE and had netscape mail. I used to connect to the internet using this little program called 'kppp' and there was a nice option in there to open any program of choice when a connection to the internet is made. So, I made it to open netscape mail on connection. My father was quite uninterested to learn to use the computer, though he took elaborate notes while I explained to him how to send and receive email. My mother who cannot write english, listened to what I was explaining. Both of them had never touched a computer before and had a tough time operating the mouse. Once they adjust the pointer to the right menu and they lift their hand up to click and the mouse pointer goes somewhere else. :) But at the end it worked quite well. My mother used the computer to send me email. She wrote transliterated malayalam (my native language). Both of us understood what we were talking about and we exchanged emails almost every day of my six months of stay. There were times when the internet service provider couldn't provide a connection to a ppp request and kppp printed weird error messages. I had a friend who used to visit my home and see if there are problems. Barring a couple of simple problems, it worked reasonably well. Every time someone complains that GNU/Linux is difficult to use, I narrate this story to them. Yes, there are still rough edges, but we have come a long long way since 2002. Oh, did I say my parents were both 60+ in 2002?

archer2013 13y ago

Many in comments acting like Ubuntu is teh only linux distro/UI out there, many of the linux community now despise Ubuntu and see it as an OSX wannabe, if you want a real linux experience install archlinux and pick from over 1 dozen Ui's (DE/WM's) surely one will fit your needs. personaly for programming you cannot beat xmonad, and for play you cant beat openbox.

mrb101 13y ago

I had bought my mother her first Netbook 2 years ago and i installed Ubuntu on it.. She is using it after like an hour introduction. While it was her first time to use a PC. 3 months ago my dad got her a new Laptop which had Windows on it. she called me the next day to install Ubuntu on it !

anthony_barker 13y ago

Family has been linux for the past 10 years... I would say about 3/4 years ago the complaints completely stopped with ubuntu 9.10. Since then there has been some pain with unity (which we disabled for a year or two). Older computers run either older versions of ubuntu or Elementary OS or Chrunchbang OS #! http://crunchbang.org/ http://crunchbang.org/. Occassionally people still need help with LibreOffice oddities. Also I've had intercompatibility issues with MS Office with powerpoint.

readme 13y ago

Linux has a chance to become a popular OS for home desktop use. However windows is going to retain it's grip on businesses because there is no good Active Directory replacement for Linux.

Eyes2design 13y ago

I have Linux Mint on my laptop and run I run Linux on all my computers. Best menu ever cinnamon.

mistercow 13y ago

The moment I really realized how much things have changed was when I plugged an old printer into a 64 bit Windows machine, searched for drivers, and finally found out that Microsoft's official position was "Buy a new printer". Then I plugged the printer into my laptop running Ubuntu and it said "Please wait while we set up your printer... OK your printer is ready to use". I used to advise novice users against Ubuntu because troubleshooting can get pretty hairy. But that's my ex-Mac user bias showing. Compared to Windows, it is at worst a toss-up, and I feel that's being very generous to Windows.

dsleno 13y ago

I am stuck with windows for now because we develop Windows software. But I have Virtual Box image of Ubuntu on this machine, which I use for web surfing and al manner of other activities. I just prefer Ubuntu. After having reformatted my Windows machine last week because of a bad virus infection, I have decided to do all of my web surfing on Ubuntu..

munimkazia 13y ago

I think it is just a matter of conditioning and habit. I have been using linux on and off for the past 5-6 years, but using it exclusively in the past 2 years. I am a little uncomfortable on Windows 7 now, and I am totally lost on windows 8. The UI isn't user friendly for me any more. I'd take Unity, or even Gnome 3 any day.

sammanual 13y ago

Nice -- just need to eliminate the "has to be Microsoft" mentality in the enterprise (our shop refuses open source anything since "there's no support model") and Linux can finally make in roads in the organization. But as they say - you don't get the big bucks for backing non-proven technology , ie., non-Microsoft solutions. SAD

geeknik 13y ago

I'd use Linux on my desktop if my entire Steam catalog would play under Linux, but since 99% of the games I play are Windows only, I'm stuck in the Windows world. ;)