14 ms·

Square Cash

710 points by rjsamson 13y ago

abcd_f 13y ago
This needs an out-of-bound verification for the transfers. At the very least, it should confirm every new recipient - "Did you really mean to send $500 to yahoo@google.cc?" Seriously, I am all for the simplicity of the system and the flow of the narration, but where the heck is the explanation of how this is not trivially exploitable?
- addandsubtract 13y ago
  I just tried it (not being a square user) and got a confirmation email. "You’re sending $1 to xxx@yyy.com Just link your Visa or MasterCard debit card to send this cash." If I did sign up and not receive a confirmation email for any following transfers I send, then I agree, I'd be worried as well.
rjsamson 13y ago
I remember seeing this talked about a while back and not thinking much of it, but the details look slick. Sending money with no signup required seems pretty awesome.
rmccue 13y ago
Note that this isn't available everywhere: https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-cash#square-cash-supported-states https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-sq... (Would have been nice to see this on the actual page rather than hidden in "Troubleshooting")
sami36 13y ago
Free. I bite, What's the catch ? I presume recruit users to use the Wallet app ?
- ketralnis 13y ago
  This is similar to competing services on venmo and paypal. I believe they make money on: 1. The "float". The interest that they make from the period that people have cash in their accounts. If an ACH takes 4 days to complete, they may take 5 days to complete it, and collect a day's worth of interest 2. The halo effect. Now you're a Paypal/venmo/square user, and therefore more accessible to vendors using them as a payment processor. Those vendors pay the service transaction fees.
dangoor 13y ago
It sounds great, but I'm always left wondering what the angle is for free services. Will they make their money off of float? Is it something to do with the way debit cards are charged?
- sbirch 13y ago
  I think linking accounts to debit cards is pretty valuable on it's own. It opens the door to making payments for a lot of people much easier down the road.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Like how Paypal encourages you to tie your bank account to your Paypal account; they get to charge merchants the credit card interchange rate while taking advantage of the low ACH funding risk on the buyer/purchaser side.
kgermino 13y ago
>Free. Actually Free. Ok now I'm confused. I realize it's probably a marketing ploy, but how could the fees on this not eat them alive?
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  ACH transfers are stupid cheap compared to credit card transactions.
  - philfreo 13y ago
    debit cards != ACH
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      You can apparently convert debit card transactions to ACH transfers: http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518 http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518
- philfreo 13y ago
  There may be some fees for them here, but it's not like they are paying 2.7% per transaction. It only uses debit (not credit) cards.
deleted 13y ago
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maerF0x0 13y ago
NSA will start to deposit the cash you send, its just "Metadata"
- ketralnis 13y ago
  I understand the attempt to farm karma by mentioning the NSA in every single unrelated thread, I'm just surprised that this is the best that you could do. Surely there's a better story to be told in monitoring financial transactions (which they actually do) than in pretending that they're going to steal the $8 you sent to your buddy for beer.
  - bicx 13y ago
    The guy was just trying to be funny. The NSA stuff will clear up on its own.
  - ElDiablo666 13y ago
    Actually, I think that "better story" is that we cannot and should not entrust proprietary and closed systems with our vital information. Just like how "security through obscurity" has long ago been proven untrue, so too should we stop using non-free software to do our tasks, especially highly important ones with sensitive data.
  - maerF0x0 13y ago
    I'm not sure the source of your frustration. The idea was to be funny and hint at the fact that email is not that secure. I wouldnt feel secure sending more than $8 on this platform... How am I to know that my email (or packets as part of the transmission) are 1) Encrypted, 2) Not tampered with 3) From whom they claim to be from. email guarantees none of those traits 1. Encryption from server to server is optional, 2. Who knows how many MXs are hit until it finally makes it to my mailserver 3. Mailservers have know authentication mechanisms that ensure someone cannot send mail on my behalf. Yes, well configured mail servers will make attempts at these things through SSL/TLS connections, doing direct connections only (no proxies/relays) and by only accepting mail from servers listed as MX servers or with SPF records etc. Thanks for the -4pts.
sbirch 13y ago
I think they've done something quite clever by (I infer) getting people to join up when they receive money. Venmo puts up an unnecessary wall by requiring that the payee sign up before they can be paid.
usaphp 13y ago
I think thats an awesome idea, in the current world where the cash is not used as often as before and its hard to just send money to your friend or relative without dealing with long forms, swift codes, routing numbers etc...I am just wondering how did they manage to make it free? Any ideas?
MBCook 13y ago
Note that it takes 1-2 days for the deposit. They must be using ACH to do this. The 'free' part is great. Even with Square, I'd be hesitant to enter my debit card number. Planet Money recently did a great episode all about the US's ACH system and why it works the way it does. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-489-the-invisible-plumbing-of-our-economy http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-...
- eli 13y ago
  I don't think they're using ACH, at least not exclusively. You can't do an ACH transfer with a debit card number.
- usaphp 13y ago
  > Even with Square, I'd be hesitant to enter my debit card number. Are you afraid of entering your debit card number? How do you make purchases online?
  - lbarrow 13y ago
    I'm going to guess with credit cards. Credit card numbers are much safer to use online than debit cards, mostly because credit card dispute mechanisms give consumers a lot more power. If a merchant behaves in an unsavory way, with a credit card you can usually just call your bank, issue a chargeback and that's the end of it. You can't do that with a debit card.
    - MichaelApproved 13y ago
      This is wrong. You absolutely CAN dispute charges with debit cards. The problem OP might have with debit cards could be that a fraudulent charge temporarily locks cash funds (with debit card) instead of credit availability (with credit card).
      - lbarrow 13y ago
        Ah, thanks for the clarification.
pradn 13y ago
Echoing the other commenters: this is really great, but I'm a little weirded out because it's free. I'd like for them to be upfront about why it's free, since all the alternatives aren't.
- ketralnis 13y ago
  That's not true, venmo and paypal and google wallet are all free if you use ACH.
nly 13y ago
And composing an email to send someone money is secure how? What stops someone from spoofing my email address, CC'ing it to cash@square.com, and clearing me out? And if someone does get in to my email account I'm toast?
- newhouseb 13y ago
  Apparently, for suspicious activity, they'll send you an email back confirming the transaction. I would hope that most large-scale modern email services somehow sign emails to vouch for their authenticity to avoid email spoofing. I'd be curious how they handle dumb senders (I'd assume with a verification every time).
  - nfoz 13y ago
    > I would hope that most large-scale modern email services somehow sign emails to vouch for their authenticity to avoid email spoofing. Wait, what? I don't think that is a thing.
    - philfreo 13y ago
      There is such a thing (lookup DKIM) but it's really only one factor of email authenticity and I'm sure Square isn't fully relying on it.
- uptown 13y ago
  You’ll receive a reply from Square asking you to link a debit card." So you need to confirm it (and provide a debit account) I guess - but not sure how subsequent transactions are handled.
  - meritt 13y ago
    Subsequent transactions are automatically debited without authorization.
  - pavel_lishin 13y ago
    Presumably linking a debit card only happens once, and afterward, you're only contacted to verify suspicious transactions.
sahaskatta 13y ago
Hmm neat, however what benefits do I get using this when it's also built into Gmail and provided directly by Google Wallet? http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ratsimihah 13y ago
  Because sending money is free using a debit card? GW and bank accounts are free, but there's a 2.9% transaction fee for debit cards. Source: http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/
- ketralnis 13y ago
  Because you don't use gmail? Because your target doesn't use gmail? Because you're already a square user and not a Google Wallet user? Because you'd like to use a debit card without paying a fee? Because you like the letter S better than you like the letter G?
  - sahaskatta 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure Google Wallet in Gmail lets you send money to someone not using Gmail. But you are correct. I guess it's a good solution if you don't want to deal with PayPal/etc. when you happen to use your own email setup or Outlook/Yahoo/etc.
    - ketralnis 13y ago
      It has nothing to do with being edge-cases like "if you're hosting your own email thing". Personally, I just like to limit how many of my eggs are in one basket, and I already have a lot of eggs in the Google basket. I like my bank's own built-in system for this right now between me and their other customers, and for everyone else I use venmo. It works great, and I have no real complaints about either system. But really I don't need to be talked out of using Google's like it's the default, and I'm not clear on why you do. I don't really get the "why do you use your own favourite toy instead of my own favourite toy?" crowd
deleted 13y ago
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goeric 13y ago
Glad they changed it from 50 cents to free. Smart move. They solve this problem with the least amount of friction.
zcs 13y ago
What are they using to do the animations on the demo site?
abhia 13y ago
Would this still work if someone used a fake email script?
philfreo 13y ago
This is my favorite type of product. Here's why: - Take an existing known medium (in this case email) and makes it way more useful. - They didn't try to build a bunch of new UI for connecting your Facebook so you can find and invite and pay your friends, paying out to your card, etc. - It magically hides the messiness of an enormously complex problem (fraud, different types of debit cards & banks all over the world) behind a very simple interface. - Unlike every other P2P payment system, I can actually sign up and receive money (or convince my friend to) using only what's in my pocket (debit card)... not hunting down ACH/wire details.
- jser 13y ago
  Looks like an excellent target for phishing attacks!
  - downandout 13y ago
    That was my first impression. I could rip the site, post it to my own domain, and start sending out emails saying "you've got cash, give me your credit card number so we can credit it" in about 10 minutes. Great concept, and I plan to use the service, but as it gains momentum and acceptance, it's going to be a great attack vector for the Nigerians.
    - iambateman 13y ago
      All online business ever is a great attack vector for "Nigerians."
    - viiralvx 13y ago
      As a Nigerian, I'm offended. You know, other countries scam too!
      - skore 13y ago
        After getting to know a Nigerian[0], I must say this constant jab against Nigerians is getting annoying to me as well. [0] http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:power-to-the-developers-nigeria&catid=25:skore-blog&Itemid=99 http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
jey 13y ago
They're obviously taking a loss on this (due to credit card fees) if the recipient gets the full amount sent. So this must be a loss-leader that's building up to something else where they expect to make a ton of money. That "something" is most likely just "replacing cash and cards", but will be interesting to see how it plays out. It's a bold move regardless. EDIT: I meant debit card transaction fees, not credit card fees.
- sandipc 13y ago
  Debit cards only. I'm sure the fees are significantly lower for debit vs. credit cards.
  - jey 13y ago
    Yeah, true. But isn't it still in the neighborhood of 2%?
    - lachyg 13y ago
      0.05% + 22¢ for debit cards.
      - hyperbovine 13y ago
        That is an insane amount of money to be losing if/when this thing takes off. There must be more to the story.
        pranavpiyush 13y ago
        I don't think so. Its a user acquisition cost. Instead of putting up Ads, they're offering a free service. Good tactic.
  - privong 13y ago
    > I'm sure the fees are significantly lower for debit vs. credit cards. This used to be the case, but in recent discussions with retail owners I've been told that the fees are now comparable.
Tomdarkness 13y ago
This is one area where the US seems to be behind compared to the UK. I am from the UK and that service would look quite poor if it launched over here. We have a system called faster payments service that offers instant (although in some cases up to 2 hours) bank transfers for payments up to £100,000 (can differ between banks). You can use this directly if you share bank account numbers and sort codes but there are also wrappers around FPS like Barclays PingIt that people can register with and use your mobile number instead. There is no fee associated with these services.
- ketralnis 13y ago
  The US equivalent is ACH, which has the major downside that using only the bank ID (routing number) and account number you can effectively wipe out the target's account. It's up to your bank (or whatever ACH proxy) to keep you from doing that, not to the interchange, both legally and technically. ACH also takes several days to work, and has a wide window for either bank to declare the transfer fraudulent, so many banks stretch the time out longer to account for that. Most stock brokers will credit your account long before the ACH transaction completes (with some restrictions of course). There are also wrappers around this here like Chase's Quickpay or Ally's Popmoney but most require that both people use the same bank, or that you give your ACH details to a bank that isn't your own. Paper cheques just have the routing/account numbers along the bottom, and AFAIK essentially work via ACH anyway, so they have all of the same downsides, plus taking longer to complete. Also, the window for fraud with ACH is so great that when you tell one bank about another account's ACH details so that you can transfer money, they "authenticate" this by making small, sub-$1 deposit amounts, and asking you what the amounts were, to prove that you can see the target account. So this "linking" process takes the entire ACH transaction time as well the first time you do it. Some banks have taken to using a service called Yodlee which asks you for the target accounts' username and password. That's right, Wells Fargo asks for your username and password on Scottrade to authenticate the transfer because they don't trust the way ACH's liability lies. So this won't work to send $8 to your buddy anyway. Moving money without a service like paypal/venmo/square/google wallet is really quite difficult, especially if you don't want to trust an organisation with a history of taking people's money (Paypal) or if you don't want to pay a transaction fee.
meritt 13y ago
Seems to work amazingly although I'm a bit concerned about the security. A friend sent me $1. I get an email from square, link to website where I entered my debit #, expiry and postal. It deposited directly to my debit card (I didnt even know you could do that). The deposit already arrived! "Checking Card Adjustment POS Pin (Credit) $1.00" So I sent him $1 back (to: my friend, cc: cash@square.com, subject: $1). And it instantly sent it to him. I didn't have to verify my details or anything. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if there was a security blog explaining how they are validating that I indeed sent the email and it wasn't simply spoofed. Edit - I did this from Gmail which I presume authenticates all of the emails via dkim? I'm guessing this won't work as automatic for other providers? Edit2 - Just attempted with another friend and had to verify manually. The automatic-authorization appears to only apply when it's between two previously validated parties.
- racbart 13y ago
  So one day you get an email that you got $100 and all you need to do as a recipient is to click on a link and enter your full credit card details? Sounds like a phishing paradise.
  - ds9 13y ago
    Not even a credit card - a debit card! In the US at least, these are not covered by the $50 limitation on losses on unauthorized transactions. In practice the banks often honor that anyway, but AFAIK they don't have to. In this case however, it appears the bank could argue that when you got phished, you gave access to a third party. Wow. I would never do this. It's a good practice never to use a debit card online, and it's unclear to me whether the service here offers any enforeceable assurances to participants.
    - genwin 13y ago
      I'd risk a debit card on this technology only if there was a small amount in the account and no overdraft capability.
- jevinskie 13y ago
Romoku 13y ago
Aren't emails sent in plaintext? What are the security and privacy implications of using this service?
- ketralnis 13y ago
  Since it's based on email, the same as email. You can encrypt the body but not (most of) the headers. So yes, there's a privacy concern there.
mrtimo 13y ago
I've had a debit gift card for 10 months with $35 on it. Just used this to send that money to myself. Awesome. Amazing what you can do with a card number and expiration date. Don't loose your debit cards!
electic 13y ago
The security here is very very questionable. It is non-existent and that worries me.
kiddz 13y ago
I'm completely taken back by the simplicity of this + that it's free. So many times have I paid a contractor via PayPal as a "friend" to reduce PayPal's fees. Moreover, why hasn't a bank or credit card company done something like this yet? Amazing how the solution disappears into a cc: address line and unique link in your email.
keyle 13y ago
I cannot believe this is happening. This is extremely cool... But didn't we agree that email wasn't a safe protocol?... How long do I have to cancel a transaction? Are they going to honor the fake ones like Visa does?...
downandout 13y ago
I just scoured the site and saw no limits for receiving through square cash. I can't imagine that this is actually the case; does anyone have any idea what the actual policies are?
- sirsar 13y ago
  $2500 a week, or $250 a week before ID verification, according to WSJ. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303376904579137512381777756 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230337690...
  - takluyver 13y ago
    That's described as a limit on spending, not on receiving. It may be symmetric, but it's not clear to me from that.
ytadesse 13y ago
The simplicity of this is amazing. That being said, I have a question: Here in Canada, I can send an email transfer of funds from my bank account to my contacts by simply logging into my bank online and specifying the email address of the recipient. Does this type of system exist in the US?
- medell 13y ago
  Agreed. Once this comes to Canada, it'll kill Interac Email Money transfers (of which my plan only allows two free per month, and is not nearly this simple).
  - alanctgardner2 13y ago
    I think OP meant the opposite. This is cool, but the incumbents in Canada have already done it, and it's more trustworthy (it happens on your bank's website) and 'good enough'. Even if the tech-savvy switch to Square, the average bank-user will prefer to use INTERAC. At best this could pressure banks into giving away more free INTERAC transfers with their paid accounts.
- elliottcarlson 13y ago
  Chase Quickpay works like this. While it is limited to another Chase customer (I believe), I don't need to know their account number, just their email and I can send them money directly. The other person can then login to their account to claim the Quickpay and the money is transferred immediately. The transaction is free, and I am notified when the money has been accepted.
hipaulshi 13y ago
hmm? isn't Email address fakable?
redthrowaway 13y ago
Do Interac email transfers not work in the US? They're pretty much the same thing: send money to an email recipient who then clicks a link to deposit it in their account. I'm surprised that this is big news, and that it seemingly doesn't exist down south.
- derefr 13y ago
  Interac is an exclusively Canadian payment-processor. The American equivalents are PLUS and Cirrus--who could have implemented this long ago, but for some reason haven't.
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    I didn't realize that. The ubiquity of Interac around these parts, and its deep integration with all things financial, led me to believe it was an international institution. After spending the last week trying to find a cellphone plan for my mother, seeing a Canadian institution that mostly works and is mostly good for the consumer is a welcome breath of fresh air.
    - secabeen 13y ago
      Paypal has been offering this for a few years, but they don't promote it much.
    - aianus 13y ago
      At my bank interac e-transfer costs $1.50 a pop but paper checks are free and unlimited. It boggles the mind.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        Only if you're still tied to the notion that prices are proportional to costs. e-transfers are more convenient for consumers, so they can charge more for them.
        13y ago
cryptoz 13y ago
I want to learn more! The Help page is a 404 though: https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139 https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139 What banks does this work with?
- kamjam 13y ago
  I wanted to do the same, to figure out how they make their money, but also a 404: https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-cash https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-cash Looks like the help in only available in US English. If that is the case, and it looks like they are using some sort of CMS, then it should be fixed up and and content fallback to something useful rather than a 404. This is a link off the landing page on a site with very little content, pretty unacceptable in this day and age (but for now there is the benefit of doubt to assume you are doing a beta run for feedback).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
ateevchopra 13y ago
I really liked the idea. Its really good for all the parents who are not so tech savvy and can send money this easily. And its all free ? I don't understand why ? i mean I am not saying that it should be paid of something but being an entrepreneur myself I would love to know how you guys are making money on this.
jonheller 13y ago
I love and trust Square, but would be extremely hesitant to trust my debit card anywhere online. Someone going on a charging spree with my credit card doesn't bother me as much as the thought of someone stealing this number and taking the money directly out of my account.
tapmap 13y ago
what about sending cash to an international debit card? Has anyone tried this?
guiambros 13y ago
Brilliant solution, but can anyone tell me how they avoid fraud? I just sent money to a friend, and back. It worked fast and flawlessly, as expected. Supposedly money will be posted to my account in 24-48 hours. All good there. Now, how can they make sure that the email is genuine and wasn't spoofed? Sure, they can check for white-listed domains and SPF records, but still seems fairly weak process. The FAQ [1] doesn't say much either. Human validation is even worse. It helps that the send receives an email confirmation with the transfer, but you may not check the email before the money is posted. I guess they're pushing the onus of the proof to the receiver -- after all to receive the money you have to have a bank account and a visa/mc debit card. Whatever the security mechanism, it's a brilliantly simple solution. If it takes off, it'll quickly replace Dwalla and other micropayments. [1] https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-security https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-sec...
unclebucknasty 13y ago
In addition to phishing risks noted below, I wonder how many typo squatters will pop up for the cash@square.com cc.
taigeair 13y ago
how do they make money with this? BTW I didn't know I could scroll for the longest time! I thought it was an animation.
aioprisan 13y ago
how does the email source verification work? SPF and DKIM checks? any idea how they can credit a debit card? I'm guessing they rolled out their own solution with a few of the biggest US banks, having accounts at each one?
enraged_camel 13y ago
I'm not quite sure how to sign up. When I go to "Account" at the bottom right and enter my email address, it takes me to the purple "how to sign up" section, but it's not clear what to do from there.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
I don't see anything on the site but on Google Play it warns the app can't be installed on my Nexus 4 - I take it this is US only? Edit: Looks like it's not even available in all states in the US [1] [1] https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-cash#square-cash-supported-states https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-sq...
meonkeys 13y ago
Did Square just kill Dwolla?
SeoxyS 13y ago
I've been using Square Cash for a few months, and it's worked flawlessly. (A friend used it to send me money, and I jumped on the bandwagon; didn't even realize it was pre-release!) Square is attacking the consumer payment market from all angles, and I think it has the potential to become one of the biggest companies of this bubble!
d0m 13y ago
I don't really care about that new feature, but man, I love that background video playing with the animation.. Is there a library to help create that? Seems like it's a <video> with some animation css on top of it?
pranavpiyush 13y ago
This is simply a user acquisition mechanism for the rest of the Square business. They lose money on every transaction. Read this: http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-behind-Square-Cash-P2P-Service http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-behin...
mallipeddi 13y ago
Since the emails are not encrypted, anyone in the middle who's capable of scanning this traffic can basically see all the transactions passing by?
AustinLin 13y ago
Hands down one of the best interfaces / UX I have ever used. It's about time someone made sending money really simple and free. Can't wait to see how this service matures.
kin 13y ago
Interesting, I currently use Venmo, which ties into Facebook accounts so it's super easy to find people. But Venmo is only free is you tie your checking account. With this I can tie my debit card (which I guess is the same thing). So, I don't seen any real positive benefit over Venmo IMO. Can anyone else point anything out?
gizzlon 13y ago
Looks like it's US only? ZIP code?? Residents of 48 US states have the ability to send and receive Square Cash. Currently, you'll be limited to receiving Square Cash if you live in the following two states..
marcamillion 13y ago
Anyone know if this will work with international debit cards? E.g. if I have an debit card with my account at a Jamaican bank, can someone from the US email me cash and it arrives instantly or is this just a US service? Can't find any details about this on the site.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  I'm guessing it's a US-only service because Google Play refuses to let me install it, saying it's not compatible with my device. The only reason I think of (I have a pretty recent phone!) is that I'm not in the US.
ya 13y ago
http://d.pr/i/oEmN http://d.pr/i/oEmN chrome banned the request.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
abalone 13y ago
The most stunning part of this is the "free" part. The Durbin amendment regulates the cost of debit transactions over the Visa/Mastercard network. It's $0.22 + 0.05%. Mossberg reports that Square is planning to monetize via "premium options" like international transfers. But still, $0.22+ is a lot to lose every time someone uses your mass-market service. Good thing they raised $341M of VC money. Who said the dot com days aren't back?? Source: http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-email/ http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-email/
- netcan 13y ago
  Maybe, but maybe not. The dotcom did get some things right. The internet is a big deal. There are land grab markets. They got timing and lots of other details wrong. Maybe they will need to have a freemium offering long term to avoid too balance this if they start hitting millions of active users. It should be easy enough to get $5 pm from big users. They are playing for a big market(s) here. Very big. If bthey are paying to build their name and userbase, it could make good business sense. We know a lot more hese days. Our instincts are better. We are not cming up with a valuation based on a multiplier of hits. A user of a financial service has a realistically high value.
  - abalone 13y ago
    I didn't say dot com got anything wrong. I'm saying raising hundreds of millions of VC dollars and practically giving it away is a dot com era strategy. Remember when PayPal paid out a $20 referral bonus for each new customer? Yeah, those days.
    - netcan 13y ago
      If you say dotcom, the association is over-investing, ridiculously irrational valuation of companies/users/hits, pets.com, bankruptcy, find-the-bigger-fool, etc.
      - drited 13y ago
tmsh 13y ago
I was talking to a colleague about how Dwolla implements a similar pay network. I don't know Square's implementation. It varies with different P2P providers. Some create their own 'rails' in the backend (PopMoney, etc.). Some follow the 'clearing firm' / brokerage model of the commodities / equity markets. They have accounts in all major banks with deposit (debit) accounts and simply do an inner-bank transfer on both ends on your (and your recipient's) behalf. That got me thinking though. It's 2013. The ideal solution is not to be beholden to any centralized authority or group of 'clearing' accounts for routing. The ideal solution is security but flexibility and distributiveness. The ideal solution is a network of trust with similar 'hubs' / 'clearing firms' that one can choose to route through automatically, have all the routing be automated for you via solid protocols. There is the chance to create clusters of payment routing networks that are more elegant. It would make money movement so much more liquid in our world. And would be a really great thing. Maybe Square is the beginning of that solution. I hope it gets even more distributed though. It's mostly companies leading the way for this. And good for them. But there's another possibility: something very open, but given the right protocols and architecture, very secure. There is no incentive to create such an architecture other than the amazing world that it would mean where you could travel to different countries and authenticate seemless money transactions to whoever had a phone or email endpoint (again there would have to be name servers + some sort of money equivalent of SMTP + TLS / chains of trust + distributed clusters of shared 'clearing' bank accounts + routing algorithms to these accounts, etc.). But that didn't stop Tim Berners-Lee or the early internet folks....
SwaroopH 13y ago
A point about spoofed email, Square always seems to ask the sender for a confirmation whether the email was spoofed or not. I tested this by sending it legitimately and through an unauthorized email server. The only thing that was concerning was when I sent a spoofed email, the receiver was able to know the sender name (cash account name) – "ABC is about to send you cash". Very minor but it allows anyone to find out your name provided they know your email address.
magico 13y ago
It doesn't accept British Pounds yet :(
tiziano88 13y ago
Reminds me of a similar gmail feature http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-money/
dalys 13y ago
I was just impressed by how the colors of the buttons in the top left corner (when idling at the section with the video background) is synchronized with the color theme of the video background.
Lifesnoozer 13y ago
There's a similar thing in Sweden, called Swish (https://www.getswish.se/ https://www.getswish.se/). But it's a cooperation between banks, and you link it with your phone number, the transfer is instant, you have to identify using something called Bank ID. Square Cash seems nice, but I prefer the approach of Swish.
kirk21 13y ago
Any idea what mailsystem they use to handle all these mails? Or is it an in-house build system?
verelo 13y ago
Yet another US only payment option. I get it, but at least state it somewhere so people like me don't get excited and then suddenly disappointed.
abvdasker 13y ago
Not talking about the product for a moment. There are a lot of not-so-great "flat design" websites out there, but Square Cash's is one of the best I've seen. I keep seeing these loud sites with full-width graphics and animations on everything. This is how it should be done. And responsive to boot!
charleyma 13y ago
Square Cash is definitely some sort of loss-leader, but for what? Most obvious long-run plan would be for user/debit card acquisition (which has lower interchange rates) to support their bread and butter business (merchant tools) as this would increase their profit margins by reducing processing expenses, especially since Square simply charges a single rate to merchants...
bydpark 13y ago
This looks pretty interesting, but, as everyone said, security sounds like it will be a huge issue. Will there be other methods of verifying a user for email, now that it can be linked to your bank account?
chasingtheflow 13y ago
I get that this is cool because it doesn't require an app or anything to work. But I just don't see this replacing venmo for me. Albeit venmo requires a bit of set up (so does this) and an app, but once that's in place sending money is quicker and easier and I don't have to remember to cc anyone. Thoughts?
BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
Seems a little scary, to be honest. It's plausible that malware (or even just somebody physically using your phone or computer for a minute) could generate and perhaps send these emails on a user's behalf (and then delete the confirmation and the "sent" copy, depending on the mechanism). If I were ever to use this service, I'd surely use a dedicated email address that's harder for me to casually send mail from.
hnriot 13y ago
on an aside, what a great website, the background video and colorization all work so well.
elwell 13y ago
If they are really losing 0.05% + 22¢ every transaction, then Venmo should use Square Cash to make a lot of large transactions, forcing them into bankruptcy.

710 points by rjsamson 13y ago

This needs an out-of-bound verification for the transfers. At the very least, it should confirm every new recipient - "Did you really mean to send $500 to yahoo@google.cc?" Seriously, I am all for the simplicity of the system and the flow of the narration, but where the heck is the explanation of how this is not trivially exploitable?

addandsubtract 13y ago
I just tried it (not being a square user) and got a confirmation email. "You’re sending $1 to xxx@yyy.com Just link your Visa or MasterCard debit card to send this cash." If I did sign up and not receive a confirmation email for any following transfers I send, then I agree, I'd be worried as well.

rjsamson 13y ago

I remember seeing this talked about a while back and not thinking much of it, but the details look slick. Sending money with no signup required seems pretty awesome.

rmccue 13y ago

Note that this isn't available everywhere: https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-cash#square-cash-supported-states https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-sq... (Would have been nice to see this on the actual page rather than hidden in "Troubleshooting")

sami36 13y ago

Free. I bite, What's the catch ? I presume recruit users to use the Wallet app ?

ketralnis 13y ago
This is similar to competing services on venmo and paypal. I believe they make money on: 1. The "float". The interest that they make from the period that people have cash in their accounts. If an ACH takes 4 days to complete, they may take 5 days to complete it, and collect a day's worth of interest 2. The halo effect. Now you're a Paypal/venmo/square user, and therefore more accessible to vendors using them as a payment processor. Those vendors pay the service transaction fees.

dangoor 13y ago

It sounds great, but I'm always left wondering what the angle is for free services. Will they make their money off of float? Is it something to do with the way debit cards are charged?

sbirch 13y ago
I think linking accounts to debit cards is pretty valuable on it's own. It opens the door to making payments for a lot of people much easier down the road.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Like how Paypal encourages you to tie your bank account to your Paypal account; they get to charge merchants the credit card interchange rate while taking advantage of the low ACH funding risk on the buyer/purchaser side.

kgermino 13y ago

>Free. Actually Free. Ok now I'm confused. I realize it's probably a marketing ploy, but how could the fees on this not eat them alive?

toomuchtodo 13y ago
ACH transfers are stupid cheap compared to credit card transactions.
- philfreo 13y ago
  debit cards != ACH
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    You can apparently convert debit card transactions to ACH transfers: http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518 http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518
philfreo 13y ago
There may be some fees for them here, but it's not like they are paying 2.7% per transaction. It only uses debit (not credit) cards.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

maerF0x0 13y ago

NSA will start to deposit the cash you send, its just "Metadata"

ketralnis 13y ago
I understand the attempt to farm karma by mentioning the NSA in every single unrelated thread, I'm just surprised that this is the best that you could do. Surely there's a better story to be told in monitoring financial transactions (which they actually do) than in pretending that they're going to steal the $8 you sent to your buddy for beer.
- bicx 13y ago
  The guy was just trying to be funny. The NSA stuff will clear up on its own.
- ElDiablo666 13y ago
  Actually, I think that "better story" is that we cannot and should not entrust proprietary and closed systems with our vital information. Just like how "security through obscurity" has long ago been proven untrue, so too should we stop using non-free software to do our tasks, especially highly important ones with sensitive data.
- maerF0x0 13y ago
  I'm not sure the source of your frustration. The idea was to be funny and hint at the fact that email is not that secure. I wouldnt feel secure sending more than $8 on this platform... How am I to know that my email (or packets as part of the transmission) are 1) Encrypted, 2) Not tampered with 3) From whom they claim to be from. email guarantees none of those traits 1. Encryption from server to server is optional, 2. Who knows how many MXs are hit until it finally makes it to my mailserver 3. Mailservers have know authentication mechanisms that ensure someone cannot send mail on my behalf. Yes, well configured mail servers will make attempts at these things through SSL/TLS connections, doing direct connections only (no proxies/relays) and by only accepting mail from servers listed as MX servers or with SPF records etc. Thanks for the -4pts.

sbirch 13y ago

I think they've done something quite clever by (I infer) getting people to join up when they receive money. Venmo puts up an unnecessary wall by requiring that the payee sign up before they can be paid.

usaphp 13y ago

I think thats an awesome idea, in the current world where the cash is not used as often as before and its hard to just send money to your friend or relative without dealing with long forms, swift codes, routing numbers etc...I am just wondering how did they manage to make it free? Any ideas?

MBCook 13y ago

Note that it takes 1-2 days for the deposit. They must be using ACH to do this. The 'free' part is great. Even with Square, I'd be hesitant to enter my debit card number. Planet Money recently did a great episode all about the US's ACH system and why it works the way it does. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-489-the-invisible-plumbing-of-our-economy http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-...

eli 13y ago
I don't think they're using ACH, at least not exclusively. You can't do an ACH transfer with a debit card number.
usaphp 13y ago
> Even with Square, I'd be hesitant to enter my debit card number. Are you afraid of entering your debit card number? How do you make purchases online?
- lbarrow 13y ago
  I'm going to guess with credit cards. Credit card numbers are much safer to use online than debit cards, mostly because credit card dispute mechanisms give consumers a lot more power. If a merchant behaves in an unsavory way, with a credit card you can usually just call your bank, issue a chargeback and that's the end of it. You can't do that with a debit card.
  - MichaelApproved 13y ago
    This is wrong. You absolutely CAN dispute charges with debit cards. The problem OP might have with debit cards could be that a fraudulent charge temporarily locks cash funds (with debit card) instead of credit availability (with credit card).
    - lbarrow 13y ago
      Ah, thanks for the clarification.

pradn 13y ago

Echoing the other commenters: this is really great, but I'm a little weirded out because it's free. I'd like for them to be upfront about why it's free, since all the alternatives aren't.

ketralnis 13y ago
That's not true, venmo and paypal and google wallet are all free if you use ACH.

nly 13y ago

And composing an email to send someone money is secure how? What stops someone from spoofing my email address, CC'ing it to cash@square.com, and clearing me out? And if someone does get in to my email account I'm toast?

newhouseb 13y ago
Apparently, for suspicious activity, they'll send you an email back confirming the transaction. I would hope that most large-scale modern email services somehow sign emails to vouch for their authenticity to avoid email spoofing. I'd be curious how they handle dumb senders (I'd assume with a verification every time).
- nfoz 13y ago
  > I would hope that most large-scale modern email services somehow sign emails to vouch for their authenticity to avoid email spoofing. Wait, what? I don't think that is a thing.
  - philfreo 13y ago
    There is such a thing (lookup DKIM) but it's really only one factor of email authenticity and I'm sure Square isn't fully relying on it.
uptown 13y ago
You’ll receive a reply from Square asking you to link a debit card." So you need to confirm it (and provide a debit account) I guess - but not sure how subsequent transactions are handled.
- meritt 13y ago
  Subsequent transactions are automatically debited without authorization.
- pavel_lishin 13y ago
  Presumably linking a debit card only happens once, and afterward, you're only contacted to verify suspicious transactions.

sahaskatta 13y ago

Hmm neat, however what benefits do I get using this when it's also built into Gmail and provided directly by Google Wallet? http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ratsimihah 13y ago
Because sending money is free using a debit card? GW and bank accounts are free, but there's a 2.9% transaction fee for debit cards. Source: http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/
ketralnis 13y ago
Because you don't use gmail? Because your target doesn't use gmail? Because you're already a square user and not a Google Wallet user? Because you'd like to use a debit card without paying a fee? Because you like the letter S better than you like the letter G?
- sahaskatta 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure Google Wallet in Gmail lets you send money to someone not using Gmail. But you are correct. I guess it's a good solution if you don't want to deal with PayPal/etc. when you happen to use your own email setup or Outlook/Yahoo/etc.
  - ketralnis 13y ago
    It has nothing to do with being edge-cases like "if you're hosting your own email thing". Personally, I just like to limit how many of my eggs are in one basket, and I already have a lot of eggs in the Google basket. I like my bank's own built-in system for this right now between me and their other customers, and for everyone else I use venmo. It works great, and I have no real complaints about either system. But really I don't need to be talked out of using Google's like it's the default, and I'm not clear on why you do. I don't really get the "why do you use your own favourite toy instead of my own favourite toy?" crowd

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

goeric 13y ago

Glad they changed it from 50 cents to free. Smart move. They solve this problem with the least amount of friction.

zcs 13y ago

What are they using to do the animations on the demo site?

abhia 13y ago

Would this still work if someone used a fake email script?

philfreo 13y ago

This is my favorite type of product. Here's why: - Take an existing known medium (in this case email) and makes it way more useful. - They didn't try to build a bunch of new UI for connecting your Facebook so you can find and invite and pay your friends, paying out to your card, etc. - It magically hides the messiness of an enormously complex problem (fraud, different types of debit cards & banks all over the world) behind a very simple interface. - Unlike every other P2P payment system, I can actually sign up and receive money (or convince my friend to) using only what's in my pocket (debit card)... not hunting down ACH/wire details.

jser 13y ago
Looks like an excellent target for phishing attacks!
- downandout 13y ago
  That was my first impression. I could rip the site, post it to my own domain, and start sending out emails saying "you've got cash, give me your credit card number so we can credit it" in about 10 minutes. Great concept, and I plan to use the service, but as it gains momentum and acceptance, it's going to be a great attack vector for the Nigerians.
  - iambateman 13y ago
    All online business ever is a great attack vector for "Nigerians."
  - viiralvx 13y ago
    As a Nigerian, I'm offended. You know, other countries scam too!
    - skore 13y ago
      After getting to know a Nigerian[0], I must say this constant jab against Nigerians is getting annoying to me as well. [0] http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:power-to-the-developers-nigeria&catid=25:skore-blog&Itemid=99 http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...

jey 13y ago

They're obviously taking a loss on this (due to credit card fees) if the recipient gets the full amount sent. So this must be a loss-leader that's building up to something else where they expect to make a ton of money. That "something" is most likely just "replacing cash and cards", but will be interesting to see how it plays out. It's a bold move regardless. EDIT: I meant debit card transaction fees, not credit card fees.

sandipc 13y ago
Debit cards only. I'm sure the fees are significantly lower for debit vs. credit cards.
- jey 13y ago
  Yeah, true. But isn't it still in the neighborhood of 2%?
  - lachyg 13y ago
    0.05% + 22¢ for debit cards.
    - hyperbovine 13y ago
      That is an insane amount of money to be losing if/when this thing takes off. There must be more to the story.
      - pranavpiyush 13y ago
        I don't think so. Its a user acquisition cost. Instead of putting up Ads, they're offering a free service. Good tactic.
- privong 13y ago
  > I'm sure the fees are significantly lower for debit vs. credit cards. This used to be the case, but in recent discussions with retail owners I've been told that the fees are now comparable.

Tomdarkness 13y ago

This is one area where the US seems to be behind compared to the UK. I am from the UK and that service would look quite poor if it launched over here. We have a system called faster payments service that offers instant (although in some cases up to 2 hours) bank transfers for payments up to £100,000 (can differ between banks). You can use this directly if you share bank account numbers and sort codes but there are also wrappers around FPS like Barclays PingIt that people can register with and use your mobile number instead. There is no fee associated with these services.

ketralnis 13y ago
The US equivalent is ACH, which has the major downside that using only the bank ID (routing number) and account number you can effectively wipe out the target's account. It's up to your bank (or whatever ACH proxy) to keep you from doing that, not to the interchange, both legally and technically. ACH also takes several days to work, and has a wide window for either bank to declare the transfer fraudulent, so many banks stretch the time out longer to account for that. Most stock brokers will credit your account long before the ACH transaction completes (with some restrictions of course). There are also wrappers around this here like Chase's Quickpay or Ally's Popmoney but most require that both people use the same bank, or that you give your ACH details to a bank that isn't your own. Paper cheques just have the routing/account numbers along the bottom, and AFAIK essentially work via ACH anyway, so they have all of the same downsides, plus taking longer to complete. Also, the window for fraud with ACH is so great that when you tell one bank about another account's ACH details so that you can transfer money, they "authenticate" this by making small, sub-$1 deposit amounts, and asking you what the amounts were, to prove that you can see the target account. So this "linking" process takes the entire ACH transaction time as well the first time you do it. Some banks have taken to using a service called Yodlee which asks you for the target accounts' username and password. That's right, Wells Fargo asks for your username and password on Scottrade to authenticate the transfer because they don't trust the way ACH's liability lies. So this won't work to send $8 to your buddy anyway. Moving money without a service like paypal/venmo/square/google wallet is really quite difficult, especially if you don't want to trust an organisation with a history of taking people's money (Paypal) or if you don't want to pay a transaction fee.

meritt 13y ago

Seems to work amazingly although I'm a bit concerned about the security. A friend sent me $1. I get an email from square, link to website where I entered my debit #, expiry and postal. It deposited directly to my debit card (I didnt even know you could do that). The deposit already arrived! "Checking Card Adjustment POS Pin (Credit) $1.00" So I sent him $1 back (to: my friend, cc: cash@square.com, subject: $1). And it instantly sent it to him. I didn't have to verify my details or anything. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if there was a security blog explaining how they are validating that I indeed sent the email and it wasn't simply spoofed. Edit - I did this from Gmail which I presume authenticates all of the emails via dkim? I'm guessing this won't work as automatic for other providers? Edit2 - Just attempted with another friend and had to verify manually. The automatic-authorization appears to only apply when it's between two previously validated parties.

racbart 13y ago
So one day you get an email that you got $100 and all you need to do as a recipient is to click on a link and enter your full credit card details? Sounds like a phishing paradise.
- ds9 13y ago
  Not even a credit card - a debit card! In the US at least, these are not covered by the $50 limitation on losses on unauthorized transactions. In practice the banks often honor that anyway, but AFAIK they don't have to. In this case however, it appears the bank could argue that when you got phished, you gave access to a third party. Wow. I would never do this. It's a good practice never to use a debit card online, and it's unclear to me whether the service here offers any enforeceable assurances to participants.
  - genwin 13y ago
    I'd risk a debit card on this technology only if there was a small amount in the account and no overdraft capability.
jevinskie 13y ago

Romoku 13y ago

Aren't emails sent in plaintext? What are the security and privacy implications of using this service?

ketralnis 13y ago
Since it's based on email, the same as email. You can encrypt the body but not (most of) the headers. So yes, there's a privacy concern there.

mrtimo 13y ago

I've had a debit gift card for 10 months with $35 on it. Just used this to send that money to myself. Awesome. Amazing what you can do with a card number and expiration date. Don't loose your debit cards!

electic 13y ago

The security here is very very questionable. It is non-existent and that worries me.

kiddz 13y ago

I'm completely taken back by the simplicity of this + that it's free. So many times have I paid a contractor via PayPal as a "friend" to reduce PayPal's fees. Moreover, why hasn't a bank or credit card company done something like this yet? Amazing how the solution disappears into a cc: address line and unique link in your email.

keyle 13y ago

I cannot believe this is happening. This is extremely cool... But didn't we agree that email wasn't a safe protocol?... How long do I have to cancel a transaction? Are they going to honor the fake ones like Visa does?...

downandout 13y ago

I just scoured the site and saw no limits for receiving through square cash. I can't imagine that this is actually the case; does anyone have any idea what the actual policies are?

sirsar 13y ago
$2500 a week, or $250 a week before ID verification, according to WSJ. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303376904579137512381777756 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230337690...
- takluyver 13y ago
  That's described as a limit on spending, not on receiving. It may be symmetric, but it's not clear to me from that.

ytadesse 13y ago

The simplicity of this is amazing. That being said, I have a question: Here in Canada, I can send an email transfer of funds from my bank account to my contacts by simply logging into my bank online and specifying the email address of the recipient. Does this type of system exist in the US?

medell 13y ago
Agreed. Once this comes to Canada, it'll kill Interac Email Money transfers (of which my plan only allows two free per month, and is not nearly this simple).
- alanctgardner2 13y ago
  I think OP meant the opposite. This is cool, but the incumbents in Canada have already done it, and it's more trustworthy (it happens on your bank's website) and 'good enough'. Even if the tech-savvy switch to Square, the average bank-user will prefer to use INTERAC. At best this could pressure banks into giving away more free INTERAC transfers with their paid accounts.
elliottcarlson 13y ago
Chase Quickpay works like this. While it is limited to another Chase customer (I believe), I don't need to know their account number, just their email and I can send them money directly. The other person can then login to their account to claim the Quickpay and the money is transferred immediately. The transaction is free, and I am notified when the money has been accepted.

hipaulshi 13y ago

hmm? isn't Email address fakable?

redthrowaway 13y ago

Do Interac email transfers not work in the US? They're pretty much the same thing: send money to an email recipient who then clicks a link to deposit it in their account. I'm surprised that this is big news, and that it seemingly doesn't exist down south.

derefr 13y ago
Interac is an exclusively Canadian payment-processor. The American equivalents are PLUS and Cirrus--who could have implemented this long ago, but for some reason haven't.
- redthrowaway 13y ago
  I didn't realize that. The ubiquity of Interac around these parts, and its deep integration with all things financial, led me to believe it was an international institution. After spending the last week trying to find a cellphone plan for my mother, seeing a Canadian institution that mostly works and is mostly good for the consumer is a welcome breath of fresh air.
  - secabeen 13y ago
    Paypal has been offering this for a few years, but they don't promote it much.
  - aianus 13y ago
    At my bank interac e-transfer costs $1.50 a pop but paper checks are free and unlimited. It boggles the mind.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      Only if you're still tied to the notion that prices are proportional to costs. e-transfers are more convenient for consumers, so they can charge more for them.
      - 13y ago

cryptoz 13y ago

I want to learn more! The Help page is a 404 though: https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139 https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139 What banks does this work with?

kamjam 13y ago
I wanted to do the same, to figure out how they make their money, but also a 404: https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-cash https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-cash Looks like the help in only available in US English. If that is the case, and it looks like they are using some sort of CMS, then it should be fixed up and and content fallback to something useful rather than a 404. This is a link off the landing page on a site with very little content, pretty unacceptable in this day and age (but for now there is the benefit of doubt to assume you are doing a beta run for feedback).
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

ateevchopra 13y ago

I really liked the idea. Its really good for all the parents who are not so tech savvy and can send money this easily. And its all free ? I don't understand why ? i mean I am not saying that it should be paid of something but being an entrepreneur myself I would love to know how you guys are making money on this.

jonheller 13y ago

I love and trust Square, but would be extremely hesitant to trust my debit card anywhere online. Someone going on a charging spree with my credit card doesn't bother me as much as the thought of someone stealing this number and taking the money directly out of my account.

tapmap 13y ago

what about sending cash to an international debit card? Has anyone tried this?

guiambros 13y ago

Brilliant solution, but can anyone tell me how they avoid fraud? I just sent money to a friend, and back. It worked fast and flawlessly, as expected. Supposedly money will be posted to my account in 24-48 hours. All good there. Now, how can they make sure that the email is genuine and wasn't spoofed? Sure, they can check for white-listed domains and SPF records, but still seems fairly weak process. The FAQ [1] doesn't say much either. Human validation is even worse. It helps that the send receives an email confirmation with the transfer, but you may not check the email before the money is posted. I guess they're pushing the onus of the proof to the receiver -- after all to receive the money you have to have a bank account and a visa/mc debit card. Whatever the security mechanism, it's a brilliantly simple solution. If it takes off, it'll quickly replace Dwalla and other micropayments. [1] https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-security https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-sec...

unclebucknasty 13y ago

In addition to phishing risks noted below, I wonder how many typo squatters will pop up for the cash@square.com cc.

taigeair 13y ago

how do they make money with this? BTW I didn't know I could scroll for the longest time! I thought it was an animation.

aioprisan 13y ago

how does the email source verification work? SPF and DKIM checks? any idea how they can credit a debit card? I'm guessing they rolled out their own solution with a few of the biggest US banks, having accounts at each one?

enraged_camel 13y ago

I'm not quite sure how to sign up. When I go to "Account" at the bottom right and enter my email address, it takes me to the purple "how to sign up" section, but it's not clear what to do from there.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

I don't see anything on the site but on Google Play it warns the app can't be installed on my Nexus 4 - I take it this is US only? Edit: Looks like it's not even available in all states in the US [1] [1] https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-cash#square-cash-supported-states https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-sq...

meonkeys 13y ago

Did Square just kill Dwolla?

SeoxyS 13y ago

I've been using Square Cash for a few months, and it's worked flawlessly. (A friend used it to send me money, and I jumped on the bandwagon; didn't even realize it was pre-release!) Square is attacking the consumer payment market from all angles, and I think it has the potential to become one of the biggest companies of this bubble!

d0m 13y ago

I don't really care about that new feature, but man, I love that background video playing with the animation.. Is there a library to help create that? Seems like it's a <video> with some animation css on top of it?

pranavpiyush 13y ago

This is simply a user acquisition mechanism for the rest of the Square business. They lose money on every transaction. Read this: http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-behind-Square-Cash-P2P-Service http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-behin...

mallipeddi 13y ago

Since the emails are not encrypted, anyone in the middle who's capable of scanning this traffic can basically see all the transactions passing by?

AustinLin 13y ago

Hands down one of the best interfaces / UX I have ever used. It's about time someone made sending money really simple and free. Can't wait to see how this service matures.

kin 13y ago

Interesting, I currently use Venmo, which ties into Facebook accounts so it's super easy to find people. But Venmo is only free is you tie your checking account. With this I can tie my debit card (which I guess is the same thing). So, I don't seen any real positive benefit over Venmo IMO. Can anyone else point anything out?

gizzlon 13y ago

Looks like it's US only? ZIP code?? Residents of 48 US states have the ability to send and receive Square Cash. Currently, you'll be limited to receiving Square Cash if you live in the following two states..

marcamillion 13y ago

Anyone know if this will work with international debit cards? E.g. if I have an debit card with my account at a Jamaican bank, can someone from the US email me cash and it arrives instantly or is this just a US service? Can't find any details about this on the site.

kintamanimatt 13y ago
I'm guessing it's a US-only service because Google Play refuses to let me install it, saying it's not compatible with my device. The only reason I think of (I have a pretty recent phone!) is that I'm not in the US.

ya 13y ago

http://d.pr/i/oEmN http://d.pr/i/oEmN chrome banned the request.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

abalone 13y ago

The most stunning part of this is the "free" part. The Durbin amendment regulates the cost of debit transactions over the Visa/Mastercard network. It's $0.22 + 0.05%. Mossberg reports that Square is planning to monetize via "premium options" like international transfers. But still, $0.22+ is a lot to lose every time someone uses your mass-market service. Good thing they raised $341M of VC money. Who said the dot com days aren't back?? Source: http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-email/ http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-email/

netcan 13y ago
Maybe, but maybe not. The dotcom did get some things right. The internet is a big deal. There are land grab markets. They got timing and lots of other details wrong. Maybe they will need to have a freemium offering long term to avoid too balance this if they start hitting millions of active users. It should be easy enough to get $5 pm from big users. They are playing for a big market(s) here. Very big. If bthey are paying to build their name and userbase, it could make good business sense. We know a lot more hese days. Our instincts are better. We are not cming up with a valuation based on a multiplier of hits. A user of a financial service has a realistically high value.
- abalone 13y ago
  I didn't say dot com got anything wrong. I'm saying raising hundreds of millions of VC dollars and practically giving it away is a dot com era strategy. Remember when PayPal paid out a $20 referral bonus for each new customer? Yeah, those days.
  - netcan 13y ago
    If you say dotcom, the association is over-investing, ridiculously irrational valuation of companies/users/hits, pets.com, bankruptcy, find-the-bigger-fool, etc.
    - drited 13y ago

tmsh 13y ago

I was talking to a colleague about how Dwolla implements a similar pay network. I don't know Square's implementation. It varies with different P2P providers. Some create their own 'rails' in the backend (PopMoney, etc.). Some follow the 'clearing firm' / brokerage model of the commodities / equity markets. They have accounts in all major banks with deposit (debit) accounts and simply do an inner-bank transfer on both ends on your (and your recipient's) behalf. That got me thinking though. It's 2013. The ideal solution is not to be beholden to any centralized authority or group of 'clearing' accounts for routing. The ideal solution is security but flexibility and distributiveness. The ideal solution is a network of trust with similar 'hubs' / 'clearing firms' that one can choose to route through automatically, have all the routing be automated for you via solid protocols. There is the chance to create clusters of payment routing networks that are more elegant. It would make money movement so much more liquid in our world. And would be a really great thing. Maybe Square is the beginning of that solution. I hope it gets even more distributed though. It's mostly companies leading the way for this. And good for them. But there's another possibility: something very open, but given the right protocols and architecture, very secure. There is no incentive to create such an architecture other than the amazing world that it would mean where you could travel to different countries and authenticate seemless money transactions to whoever had a phone or email endpoint (again there would have to be name servers + some sort of money equivalent of SMTP + TLS / chains of trust + distributed clusters of shared 'clearing' bank accounts + routing algorithms to these accounts, etc.). But that didn't stop Tim Berners-Lee or the early internet folks....

SwaroopH 13y ago

A point about spoofed email, Square always seems to ask the sender for a confirmation whether the email was spoofed or not. I tested this by sending it legitimately and through an unauthorized email server. The only thing that was concerning was when I sent a spoofed email, the receiver was able to know the sender name (cash account name) – "ABC is about to send you cash". Very minor but it allows anyone to find out your name provided they know your email address.

magico 13y ago

It doesn't accept British Pounds yet :(

tiziano88 13y ago

Reminds me of a similar gmail feature http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-money/ http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-money/

dalys 13y ago

I was just impressed by how the colors of the buttons in the top left corner (when idling at the section with the video background) is synchronized with the color theme of the video background.

Lifesnoozer 13y ago

There's a similar thing in Sweden, called Swish (https://www.getswish.se/ https://www.getswish.se/). But it's a cooperation between banks, and you link it with your phone number, the transfer is instant, you have to identify using something called Bank ID. Square Cash seems nice, but I prefer the approach of Swish.

kirk21 13y ago

Any idea what mailsystem they use to handle all these mails? Or is it an in-house build system?

verelo 13y ago

Yet another US only payment option. I get it, but at least state it somewhere so people like me don't get excited and then suddenly disappointed.

abvdasker 13y ago

Not talking about the product for a moment. There are a lot of not-so-great "flat design" websites out there, but Square Cash's is one of the best I've seen. I keep seeing these loud sites with full-width graphics and animations on everything. This is how it should be done. And responsive to boot!

charleyma 13y ago

Square Cash is definitely some sort of loss-leader, but for what? Most obvious long-run plan would be for user/debit card acquisition (which has lower interchange rates) to support their bread and butter business (merchant tools) as this would increase their profit margins by reducing processing expenses, especially since Square simply charges a single rate to merchants...

bydpark 13y ago

This looks pretty interesting, but, as everyone said, security sounds like it will be a huge issue. Will there be other methods of verifying a user for email, now that it can be linked to your bank account?

chasingtheflow 13y ago

I get that this is cool because it doesn't require an app or anything to work. But I just don't see this replacing venmo for me. Albeit venmo requires a bit of set up (so does this) and an app, but once that's in place sending money is quicker and easier and I don't have to remember to cc anyone. Thoughts?

BHSPitMonkey 13y ago

Seems a little scary, to be honest. It's plausible that malware (or even just somebody physically using your phone or computer for a minute) could generate and perhaps send these emails on a user's behalf (and then delete the confirmation and the "sent" copy, depending on the mechanism). If I were ever to use this service, I'd surely use a dedicated email address that's harder for me to casually send mail from.

hnriot 13y ago

on an aside, what a great website, the background video and colorization all work so well.

elwell 13y ago

If they are really losing 0.05% + 22¢ every transaction, then Venmo should use Square Cash to make a lot of large transactions, forcing them into bankruptcy.