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Tesla stock tumbles after Model S catches fire
- SuperChihuahua 13y agoTo quote Ian Wright (co-founder of Tesla) "There have been five laptop fires so far, and it's front-page news. There are 750 gas-car fires each day, but that's not news." Here's a picture of a SUV on the top of a Tesla Roadster, and it didn't begin to burn http://www.flickr.com/photos/16822508@N05/3995784846/sizes/l/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16822508@N05/3995784846/sizes/l...
- freehunter 13y agoI'd love to know the story behind that. It looks like the SUV hit head-on due to the positioning of the SUV and the damage to the front-end, but the rear-end is also significantly damaged. Did the driver get rear-ended as well, with the other car out of frame?
- corresation 13y agoThe SUV looks showroom ready. That looks like an ad for SUVs.
- asdasf 13y agoYou don't want the vehicle to look show room ready. You want the people inside the vehicle to be unharmed. The best way to achieve that is for the vehicle to absorb the forces of the impact. Thus making it not look showroom ready.
- 001sky 13y agonot necessarily. its fine if the other car absorbed all of the implact during its displacement, for example. also, if the other car crupmled to mush, doing the same. it is not fine for the safety of others on the road, however.
- andrewaylett 13y agoFollowing the link back to the photo page, there are some details there. The Tesla was behind the Touareg when a Prius ran into the back of it. https://secure.flickr.com/photos/16822508@N05/3995784846/ https://secure.flickr.com/photos/16822508@N05/3995784846/
- jug6ernaut 13y agoI'm sorry but this is a horrible quote/statement. Is gasoline dangerous yes. But to compare laptops to vehicles as if assuming they go through even remotely the same conditions is misleading and just plain wrong. Will there be skewed coverage between tesla vehicles and their combustion brethren yes there will, this can not be helped. We have been around internal combustion engine vehicles for over a century now, ppl are used to there advantages and disadvantages. Teslas are very new on the other hand, ppl are afraid of change. While this may not be 100% justified, we should still give new applications of technology like the tesla more scrutiny. Its part of the progression progress.
- smackfu 13y agoNow just figure out the ratio of gas-cars to Teslas on the road, and we can decide if that is meaningful.
- rjtavares 13y agoAccidents with new technology are reported disproportionately to accident with old technology. Probably a good opportunity for contrarian investors (although they may be a little burned from the 400% stock price increase this year...)
- kgermino 13y agoOk I read it quickly, but it seems like the fire was in the Frunk and the batteries are under the cabin. That makes it seem like it's just a normal electrical fire - probably from something getting shorted after he drove over 'metal debris' - and not anything specific to the batteries. If that's correct this is unfortunate for Tesla as even gasoline cars (and certainly hybrids) can have an electrical fire after hitting something. Either way it was bound to happen eventually.
- kgermino 13y agonoprocrsted out of my edit window, but I stand corrected: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6488339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6488339
- oddshocks 13y agoSeems like a normal potential issue upon hitting debris.
- barry-cotter 13y agoThe way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets. - The fourth Baron Rothschild. This is news because it's the first time it's happened, to a new technology. Had I a brokerage account I would be buying.
- coob 13y agoThis news was also combined with Baird downgrading (which probably has more to do with the drop). TSLA is a great stock and a good long term hold but if you're in the short-medium market it's probably overpriced. I say all this of course as a smug fucker who bought at below $30 :)
- MBCook 13y agoI bought at about $40, about a week before they released numbers and suddenly ran up over $120. I really wish I had bought more, but I was actually just buying a few shares because I liked the company, I never expected to make any real money on it.
- wiredfool 13y agoI didn't buy at $33, cause I thought the run was over. Yeah. that one worked out well.
- VMG 13y agoNot disagreeing with the point of your comment, but the quote is as unsourced as the famous "those who make the money make the laws" quote attributed to a different Rothschild.
- sally888 13y agoReally? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_p...
- mahyarm 13y agoIt was at this price level a few weeks ago, and August had a similar hump of 134-153-136.
- Kiro 13y agoAnd I thought SpaceX was the dangerous company here. Maybe Tesla will be the first of Elon Musk's companies causing a disastrous accident. Innovation and quick iterations are great for R&D but come with a price when released on the market too soon. That's why I put my money on Orbital and the other dinosaurs instead.
- vvvVVVvvv 13y agoYou know what happened to dinosaurs, don't you ? Poof
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Peroni 13y agoThis sort of thing happens all the time with high-end cars without any external factors like hitting debris. Lamborghini - http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=21bc5c89-5753-4491-b871-52bdadf9a677 http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post... Ferrari - http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/01/ferrari-458-italia-recalled-fire-risk/ http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/01/ferrari-458-italia-recall...
- marvin 13y agoIt's been confirmed that this was actually a fire in the battery pack (one of the 16 cells of the pack). However, the fire did not start spontaneously - it was caused by the driver hitting a large piece of metal debris in the road. The fire was also contained to part of the battery pack and did not cause a runaway reaction like in some laptop battery fires. The driver was alerted by the computer system and could stop the vehicle in a controlled manner, and evacuate. There was no explosion, and the fire did not spread to the interior of the vehicle. The fire department was able to put out the fire with a single truck. All in all, I think this is actually a positive mark on the engineering of the Tesla Model S. Statistically, there have been fewer fatalities with Model S than the average for the number of miles driven - this is in line with the car's crash test ratings. This is also the first fire after the 12 crashes which have been recorded. A fire like this was inevitable; gasoline cars also occasionally catch fire when they crash. The energy content of a full gas tank is also a lot higher. However, investors are very fickle when it comes to Li-ion battery pack fires. Even if this is evidence that the Model S is probably safer with regards to fires than a traditional gasoline car, naywayers will jump on it. Not a fun day to be a Tesla shareholder :P
- JimmaDaRustla 13y agoYes, Li-ion batteries can be like little bombs. Considering the batter was engulfed in a flame and safely contained...I'm pretty surprised and have a more positive view of Tesla now.
- CamperBob2 13y agoIndeed. SpaceX isn't public, or I would've bought their stock after seeing how their vehicle handled the aborted launch during their first ISS resupply mission. These guys understand the meaning of "fail safe."
- symfoniq 13y agoMoreover, when this sort of thing happens to a car that uses gasoline, the results can be far more catastrophic. "The freak accident occurred about 10:30 a.m. on Nov. 8, 1994, when the family was traveling to Wisconsin to celebrate birthdays. The van, driven by Scott Willis and carrying his wife and six of their nine children, struck a piece of debris that had fallen off a truck driven by Ricardo Guzman. The debris, a mudflap/taillight assembly, punctured the mini-van's gas tank, and the car burst into flames. Scott and Janet Willis managed to untangle themselves and escape, but the children were trapped and five of the six perished instantly. The oldest in the car, 12-year-old Ben, died the next day." http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-05-01/news/0005010161_1_willis-family-rev-duane-scott-willis-accident http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-05-01/news/000501016...
- chromaton 13y agoI went to a Tesla owners group meetup a few months back. It turned out that although they loved their new cars, every one of them had problems with their Model Ss that required a trip back to the dealer.
- pwelch 13y agoI know someone that owns a Model S. When he had a small issue the level of service was insane. They came to pick up his Model S and gave him a loaner. They had back to him in a day. This is new technology but the problems are few and if there are problems they fix them in a heartbeat.
- R_Edward 13y agoWhen you buy a piece of bleeding-edge technology, you're kind of signing up for a few problems that require attention. Goes with the territory. The real question is, once you identify a problem, how is the company doing at fixing it? If they're giving excellent service, you're going to have a high overall satisfaction level. And may I just put this offer out there: if there are any millionaires who are unhappy with their (unburned) Model S, I will be glad to take it off their hands for just $99.99 plus shipping. (Who am I kidding? I'll cover the shipping myself.)
- TheComrade 13y agoIf this was about a crime and not a car, your attitude would be considered victim blaming. I doubt the dealers are emphasizing that you are likely to have a problem with your expensive purchase.
- R_Edward 13y agoSalesmen, who make their living by selling luxury items, don't emphasize the negative points of the thing they're selling? Color me surprised. Call it victim blaming if you want. I call it being realistic about the premium you pay for being the first person on your block to have the shiniest toy. And for the record, I wasn't addressing the issue of the fire; I was addressing the comment about Tesla owners being generally happy with their purchase, despite having had a few things that required service. Not too many crime victims express the sentiment that, despite a few negative items, they are generally satisfied with the transaction.
- WatchDog 13y agoVideo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg
- huhtenberg 13y agoLooks like its front trunk is burning.
- loceng 13y agoGuy recognized it's a Tesla ... that's probably more of a positive than not. That video wouldn't really show how slow the fire actually likely started.
- lumberjack 13y agoIt baffles me how somebody willing to buy TSLA would become scared so easily. I don't pretend to understand markets so could anyone explain how such behavior is possible?
- JimmaDaRustla 13y agoProbably manual sell off, then automated computer run systems see the dip and sell off before major loss. There was something earlier this year where a news agency's twitter account was hacked, and the hacker reported that there was an attack on the white house, and the stock markets went crazy for a bit. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2013/04/23/stocks-gyrate-wildly-after-fake-terror-tweet/2107089/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2013/04/23/stock... Edit: Also, the stock was downgraded.
- grannyg00se 13y agoYou buy because you are expecting good news to be coming. Bad news comes instead. Your whole reason for being there is now gone because whatever good news comes isn't going to trump the bad news that is here now. You sell. Or you buy because there is a crazy amount of hype on the stock and a history of insane growth. Your expectation is more of the same. That suddenly changes dramatically. You sell. The stock has been traded mostly on pure momentum and speculation of late. That kind of scenario is highly sensitive to any kind of news. I'm surprised the tumble wasn't worse than it was. There must be some real solid long term money in play.
- corresation 13y agoIt baffles me how somebody willing to buy TSLA would become scared so easily. This isn't retail traders. It's institutional traders who understand that the value proposition of Tesla relies upon getting over the hump of "the new", which is a perilous position where any risks that differ from the old risks have a very negative impact on the proposition. We know and accept that normal cars can catch on fire, and that gas tanks can be punctured and leak, etc. These are known quantities. Crazy exploding/catch on fire batteries though seems new and scary. It may be entirely irrational, but institutional investors understand the importance of psychology (this no-one-injured car fire is in being carried by the majority of news sources) so they just move the money to other investments.
- mseebach 13y ago"Shares of Tesla Motors Inc. fell $12.05 to $180.95 — the stock's biggest one-day decline since July 16." Wow, the entire value of the last 14 days worth of growth was wiped out in a day. It's not a "tumble", it's a full-on bloodbath!
- vacri 13y agoI was thinking the same thing. I've never been walking down the aisle of a supermarket, seen a 5% off sale on something, and thought "wow, those prices are tumbling". It's like here in Aus, for quite a few years house prices were increasing 20-30% each year. After it plateaued, a decrease of 1-2% is described in the media as 'free fall' or 'crashing' or any number of other fear-mongering descriptors.
- graiz 13y agoI own some TSLA stock and in my opinion it's a blip. The stock is heading north of 200 before the end of the year, it's just a matter of velocity. The historic velocity is so much faster then any other company that I expect corrections on a weekly basis. Stock trading is often emotional like a poker player that goes on-tilt. The savvy investor actually sees buying opportunities at moments like this.
- davedx 13y agoLikewise. I'm long TSLA and staying that way.
- revelation 13y agoLots of day traders on TSLA. Nothing makes them jump ship faster than someone shouting 'fire!'.
- a-priori 13y agoTo me, that sounds like a good time to buy.
- forktheif 13y ago"Shares of Tesla Motors Inc. fell $12.05 to $180.95 — the stock's biggest one-day decline since July 16." Wow, that's the biggest drop two and a half months. Truly the end is in sight for Tesla.
- JimmaDaRustla 13y agoYes, Tesla is a car. Never heard of any other car companies losing such a massive amount market capital due to one accident...hell, even the passengers were safe AND the fire was contained to the battery bay. I've seen cars that burn to the ground despite the firewall. If anything, I have a more positive look on Tesla's now than I did before.
- pwelch 13y agoAgreed. After reading the details I want one even more.
- keyle 13y agoProbably worth buying the shares now then... I mean if we consider the amount of combustion engines that caught on fire in history... You get my point.
- ck2 13y agoKeep tumbling, I'd like to buy it when it hits the low point because this is silly. I'd drive a Model S any day if I could afford it.
- Fuxy 13y agoBest time to buy Tesla shares I guess with everybody panicking.
- MtotheThird 13y agoThe fire has little to do with it. The stock is down because earlier this week it was priced at 100x Tesla's earning estimates for next year, and implies a 30x growth in sales by 2020. Simply put, while Tesla's fundamentals are strong, there's a bubble in the stock. Retail investors (e.g. us) have been excitedly buying it without taking a careful look at the stock, and several institutional investors have decided it's a good time to sell and reap the rewards (i.e. fleece the excitable retail investors). Here's a CNN Money article about Bank of America's sudden bearward turn on Tesla: http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/01/investing/tesla-investors/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/01/investing/tesla-investors/in... The Baird Capital report is a little more nuanced; it boils down to "Tesla have been kicking ass, and that's already priced into stock, so don't buy it now because everyone else is buying it": http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2013/10/02/tesla-downgraded-by-baird-since-stock-reflects-flawless-execution/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2013/10/02/tesla-down... Anyway, yes, this isn't anything wrong with Tesla, it's just a natural market correction.
- Tloewald 13y agoWhen a stock is out of whack with its fundamentals, bad news is disproportionately likely to hurt, so it probably has a good deal to do with the fire.
- tocomment 13y agoDoes the charge in the battery affect the flammability? For example would a completely discharged battery never catch fire?
- linux_devil 13y agoWill be a lesson for Tesla, I hope they improve and make it more better. I will still go for Tesla
- krugmanlol 13y agoLets krugman fix it
- robomartin 13y agoThe truth of the matter is these are the tests electric cars will have to endure over a period of time in order to reach wide adoption. Despite what's been said here a full tank of gasoline is far safer than a fully charged battery pack with enough energy to go 300 miles. Before anyone mauls me, consider how many gasoline cars have been driven and, yes, crashed, world-wide since gasoline cars came into mass production. There have probably been millions of accidents without fires, even with fuel leaks. There's probably no imaginable way to compare the two at this time. We simply don't have enough data. And, no, linking to a horrible crash video on youtube involving gasoline igniting does absolutley nothing to support arguments on either side. The one issue with electrics that is not spoken of is the fact that you have a several hundred volt high energy system that could very well electrocute passengers. I fully expect that to happen one day (in general, not necessarily Tesla). If and when that happens you can bet it will set the breaks on electrics for a while and relevant stocks will plummet. I still believe electric cars are the future. We simply need to go though the evolutionary process that will make them really safe for hundreds of millions of electrics to share the road. What happens when you have a pile-up of ten or twenty electric cars on a fogg-covered highway? A pile of mangled wrecks with 400 Volt high energy systems is unimaginably dangerous. I can think of a few horrific scenarios under those conditions. At some level part of me thinks that fuel cells are the future, not batteries. Having something relatively benign that can leak out would be a good thing.
- marvin 13y agoYour argument doesn't make sense. This is a question of carrying a dense energy source with you at high speed. A pressurized tank of hydrogen has just as big potential for causing massive damange as a fuel tank or a battery. Probably more, since hydrogen will violently explode if ignited in the atmospohere.
- robomartin 13y agoWhere did I even mention hydrogen?
- DanielBMarkham 13y agoIt will be interesting to watch the market react to this. This is important not because of Tesla, but because the auto-drive car makers are going to have an even bigger hurdle deploying auto-drive. Yep, there will still be crashes, and it remains to be seen how the news media will run with these types of stories -- explaining the context, or piling on. My bet is that initially they'll explain the context, but just like everything else they cover, eventually they'll go for video of flaming orphans over telling the larger story of how much good is being done. Here's hoping I'm wrong.
- bane 13y agoWell, there's bound to be issues in what's essentially the full 1.0 model of Tesla's car product (let's be honest, the Roadster was an extended beta). I live in an area that manifests overall economics in the form of cars (there's a Maserati, Ferrari and Porsche dealer all within 10-15 minutes of my house . When the housing bubble was booming, ~$100,000 cars were everywhere. I remember seeing so many Porsche products on the road I thought that there must be a North American Porsche factory nearby -- I would literally see at least one at every stoplight When the economy took a downturn, all those cars disappeared and were replaced by more "practical" cars. For the last 2 or 3 years I might see a Porsche once a week. All of a sudden, in the past year things are starting to return to the old ways, except instead of Porsche products I see Teslas everywhere. I was expecting Teslas to be like the odd Lamborghini I see once a month or so. But no, I see at least one every day of the week, and I work at home. They seem to have hit the magic combination of great product and a growing economy - which is what's needed when you enter the market with luxury vehicles and work down. I'm absolutely not concerned about the current future of Tesla, their cars are selling like hotcakes right now, and I bet the Model X will sell like wildfire with the stay at home coffee shop visiting yoga pants wearing stylish soccer mom demographic that seems to make up 90% of my neighborhood. I fully expect to see at least one Model X on every block in my neighborhood...after all, when times were booming, there was a Cayenne on every block.
- chrisgd 13y agoDon't talk about my wife like that
- linux_devil 13y agoDisappointing stock traders don't believe in innovations. Right time to buy stocks for rest of us.
- loceng 13y agoIt's all a big game, it's silly. Much like how Bitcoin currency will fluctuate - and much how it will be gamed by those who have the ability to influence large markets and opinion on things (whether from people not being educated, or reacting emotionally).
- utefan001 13y agoI am sure it is easier said than done, but it seems like the batteries simply need to be better protected. Something like a carbon fiber or titanium under shield.
- gmacdon89 13y agoarson?
- spongle 13y agoI've had two cars catch fire: 1974 Land Rover Series III, 2006 Fiat Doblo Active. The first was an electrical fire and the second was a diesel leak (diesel burns like fuck when it gets hot). This isn't unique to Tesla! I'd rather drive a Tesla but they're too small for me and too expensive.
- masonhensley 13y agoPlease don't make me think my old landy is going to catch fire. I have nightmares about such things.
- spongle 13y agoThey do that. You just fix 'em. This was a short in the ignition system which caused the entire ignition wiring to burn out. Took out everything electrical nearby as well including lights. Fortunately I had a hand crank in the back so it got crank started (took ages but worked) and got it home just before it for dark. Took about 4 hours and £50 to fix it myself. If that was a modern vehicle you'd be screwed so don't have nightmares - it'll probably still get you home with no electrics (if it's pre-defender :)
- joshdance 13y ago12 Tesla crashes. 1 fire. The fire was contained, the driver was alerted, and the car was stopped safety and evacuated. If I had money I would buy Tesla stock. And a Tesla.
- craigyk 13y agoI knew something like this would happen and send the stock tumbling. I bought in at ~18 and got out at ~150 with the intention to buy back in if it ever fell significantly. I assumed this would happen. BTW, I am a huge fan or tesla and bought in originally because I believe in what they are doing, but the gains got too be too much to not lock in. I'd be buying back since I still believe that they are the future and the most forward looking car company at the moment. The big car companies are going to keep showing up at Tesla's door for access to their tech and know-how, and it's going to cost them.
- aristus 13y agoAll it takes is some bad press. People still joke about the Ford Pinto.
- jlgreco 13y agoYup, just some bad press and dozens to hundreds of people dying in fires after surviving the initial crash. (I've seen estimates as high as 900 people killed in Pintos that way. That might not be accurate or fair, but that is part of the public perception that fuels the Pinto jokes decades later.)
- rodgerd 13y agoDon't forget the "conciously choosingto let people burn to death rather than fix the fault because lawsuits are cheaper" bit of the story.
- chris_mahan 13y agoRemember Buffet: Sell exuberance, buy fear.
- ericcumbee 13y agoWonder if Boeing will Reciprocate the offer to help them figure it out. If I were Boeing's PR person and felt a tad cheeky this morning I just might.
- mrb 13y agoMeanwhile, hundreds of gas-powered vehicles also catch fire when colliding, but nobody bats an eye... https://www.google.com/search?q=vehicle+catch+fire&num=100&es_sm=93&biw=1255&bih=760&sa=X&ei=0KlNUvW6HabliwL6hoGYAQ&ved=0CCEQpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2013%2Ccd_max%3A9%2F30%2F2013&tbm=nws https://www.google.com/search?q=vehicle+catch+fire&num=100&e... Stock holders are so irrational.
- ZachPruckowski 13y agoWhile it's safe to say that Toyota or Ford could weather a safety scandal without massive long-term damage, the same isn't necessarily true with an upstart like Tesla.
- drinkzima 13y agoPerspective: http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=TSLA&p=D&yr=3&mn=0&dy=0&id=p54222571534 http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=TSLA&p=D&yr=3&mn=0&dy=0&id=... TSLA has been on a moonshot, it is "tumbling" all the way back to September prices.
- justin66 13y agoIt would be really interesting to see what penetrated the battery, although it sounds like we probably won't. When determining the safety of a vehicle one of the things that is not looked at AFAIK by the NHTSA is how the vehicle deals with, for example, exhaust system debris coming up into the engine compartment, floor, fuel tank, etc. At the risk of being overly contrarian: it's possible this debris would have done something much worse if a Honda Civic or something had hit it. There is not enough data to draw a conclusion on that, let alone make a statistical comparison between vehicles.
- knodi 13y agoTesla stock should tumble because its grossly over valued.
- chbrown 13y agoI don't think "tumbles" accurately describes "declines to the price it was two weeks ago", particularly since no one used the word "skyrockets" for the last two weeks' rise (it didn't), or some similarly exciting terminology.
- thedufer 13y agoIt fell to its price from two weeks ago in less than a day. That's around 20x faster. So yeah, I would use more excited terminology.
- tomelders 13y agoFools and their money have an inordinate amount of influence.