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Steam Controller
- saejox 13y agoLove it already. Just look at those face buttons.
- avolcano 13y agoThe key to this is the haptic feedback technology that makes it more than two weird touch surfaces. Sounds awesome.
- breckinloggins 13y agoI'm skeptical that the trackpads will provide the same precision feel that a good analog stick can do, even with the haptics. But I'm not going to count it out. I'll reserve all judgement until I get to try it. And that's the only real sticking point for me on this announcement; everything else about this controller I love.
- hahainternet 13y agoThe one thing that frustrates me with the 360 joysticks is positioning my thumb not at an extreme but not at neutral either. This option seems like it will eliminate that entirely. For that alone I'm very interested, obviously also the fact that they're trying to make things quite open.
- eterm 13y agoLaptops all moved from nipples to trackpads a long time ago, surely if analog sticks could provide higher resolution then that wouldn't have happened, or there would have been a move back?
- spongle 13y agoI'd have agreed with you once, but I broke the trackpad on a ThinkPad a couple of years ago and out of apathy i switched to the nipple mouse and I haven't looked back. It takes more practice but it has excellent precision and infinite movement. The trackpad remains broken and unplugged.
- jlgreco 13y agoFurthermore, it is a hell of a lot easier to play quake with a trackpoint than a trackpad.
- jamesaguilar 13y agoI have to guess that these trackpads will act like joysticks for fpsen. Keep your finger on the left side to move left, etc. Maybe I'm wrong though.
- andybak 13y agoI was assuming the opposite. Keyboard and Mouse is usually regarded as superior to joysticks for FPS so I assumed they were trying to bridge the gap and come up with something more mouse-like?
- zenojevski 13y agoYes, in fact it would solve the aiming issue, while using the left trackpad in "joystick mode" would better replicate a keyboard.
- Vaskivo 13y agoIf it were me doing it, I would use the trackpad and the trackpad buttons. (I'm not sure, but I believe each trackpad is "pressable" and has multiple buttons, replicating a d-pad) I would tap and drag for little and precise movements, swipe for fast movements, and press the button for default movement. With some training, it can become pretty natural.
- neona 13y agoYou'll hopefully be able to choose based on preference, since choice seems to be the theme here.
- w1ntermute 13y agoI've had several ThinkPads, and I've always disabled the trackpad in the BIOS as soon as I got a new one - it's totally unnecessary when you have the TrackPoint. It's so much faster and more precise. Like amalcon said, I have no idea how anyone can use a trackpad. Whenever I watch a friend use one, or use one myself, it's like the mouse is moving in slow motion compared to me using the TrackPoint. It does take some practice, but it's well worth the investment, just like how learning to touch type pays off in the long run.
- breckinloggins 13y agoIt's not the resolution, it's the feedback. Like I said, I'm skeptical, not dismissive.
- amalcon 13y agoNot all. Lenovo still provides eraser nub-style pointers on many models. I personally find them to be more accurate at high speeds than a touchpad. I actually have no idea how people can use touchpads. You need a huge one to be able to go corner-to-corner in one swipe and still have reasonable accuracy.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Osiris 13y agoI hate touchpads. I use an external mouse with my Macbook. I have a Dell D830 with the nub pointer and it was so much easier to use, especially considering that you don't have to remove your hands from the keyboard and your finger doesn't need to cross 3 inches of space to move across the screen.
- NoodleIncident 13y agoI've always been confused by this argument. I can reach my trackpad with my right thumb without moving any of my other fingers off of the home row. Is this an unusual amount of flexibility?
- jamesbritt 13y agoMaybe. I have long fingers and decent dexterity but find thumbing a trackpad way less accurate than using a trackpoint. This may be a matter of practice, but there's still more hand movement required even to get my thumb over the trackpad.
- efraim 13y agoI don't think most people use trackpads with their thumbs.
- StevenRayOrr 13y agoThis is one of those use cases that I'd be interested in seeing some research on. Personally, it depends a great deal on what I am doing, but I often use my thumbs to do minor navigations when within a document. Particularly because I have some RSI issues and using my thumb seems to less of an aggravation. Milage, I'm sure, varies, but I suspect that there is a subset of folks that at least use their thumbs a bit.
- deletes 13y agoMy high end (new)ThinkPad has both an trackpad and a trackpoint, and i must say the trackpoint is more precise when tiny movements are required.
- asdasf 13y agoMost popular does not mean best.
- avn2109 13y agoObligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/243/ http://xkcd.com/243/
- Anonymous9823 13y agoKeep in mind you can always just plug in a 360 controller, so if you have one of each, you can switch between the Steam and 360 controller depending on the game and your preference. I'm glad they went a different route, it opens up more options for gamers and developers.
- cheald 13y agoThat's the big thing for me here. They're obviously trying to bridge the gap between PC gaming and console gaming, but they aren't doing it at the expense of existing control schemes - I have no doubt that you can use a bluetooth keyboard + mouse, or a Steam controller, or an Xbox 360 controller to play your games. The Steam controller doesn't have to solve every problem, because it isn't an exclusive input mode for the platform. If it works on 95% of the games, that's a huge win and good enough for most people.
- Pxtl 13y agoI think the challenge is Valve is trying to create one-size-fits-all inputs with those trackpads. They have to work as joysticks and pointing devices, since Valve sells both console games and PC games on their platform. As a PC gamer, I'm super-excited for this gamepad because it will beat the ever-loving-crap out of a joystick for games that depend on a pointing-device (strategy, RTS, no-aim-assist-FPS games). It might not measure up to a mouse, but it could still provide a "good-enough" experience unlike a thumbstick.
- cheald 13y agoThe nice thing is that a high-DPI trackpad can act as both a relative-input joystick (movement based on how far from center you are) and an absolute-input pointing device (movement based on absolute position in the device's input field). Joysticks can do this, too, but their DPI is frequently nowhere even close to acceptable for this kind of work - they tend to be somewhere in the 200-400 DPI range, when your average mouse tends to be capable of input at several thousand DPI; if the touchpad resolution is good enough, then I think they're going to have a winner on their hands.
- matt_ 13y agoand yet most competitive fps players play at 400 dpi
- cheald 13y ago400 DPI on a 6"x6" input surface; that's very different from 400 DPI on a .5"x.5" input surface.
- sliverstorm 13y agoProblem with an absolute-input pointing device in this case is your thumb. In the world of ultra-high DPI touch input, your thumb is a veritable cudgel.
- Pxtl 13y ago
- Arelius 13y agoThe goal is to provide the some precision that a mouse can, not replicate sticks... If that were the case, they would have just put sticks on the thing.
- cheald 13y agoYou can trivially replicate joystick behavior with a touchpad - note how the controller has a raise "home" circle in the middle. This is almost certainly so that it can be used as a joystick, where the input is based on how far from center the thumb is, rather than the thumb's absolute position on the touchpad.
- roc 13y agoAlbeit without any of the tactile value of the tension of an analog stick. [1] Nor an absolute, physically constrained, "max" position: where the stem of an analogue stick is pressed against the edge of its container. [2] A trackpad seems like it will very easily allow your thumb to drift from a position of sending maximally-distant-from-center input to not registering any input. That's going to be a huge usability problem. And making assumptions about what a user might have meant should a thumb just happen to slide off the edge of a trackpad is going to be problematic. [3] [1] What would you call a 360 or dual shock controller with analog sticks that have no tension-to-center anymore? Broken. [2] Think of how often you feel/hear that little analog stick "clack". Think of how often you're pressing against that physical boundary to ensure maximal-distance input. Each of those moments is an opportunity for a trackpad to present a problem. And those moments are awfully common. It's likely they're more common than not. [3] did their thumb slide off, or did they raise it? did i slide off on accident or on purpose? etc EDIT: cleaned up phrasing
- NoodleIncident 13y agoI'm guessing that that's what the outer circle is for, right? Your thumb feels the ridge, and that section of the pad is interpreted as maximal-distance input.
- pmelendez 13y agoI need to use it to have a better opinion but the lack of joysticks is not looking good to me.
- mikevm 13y agoAy dios mio, this is going to rock! Heck, as someone who doesn't own a console, this might finally get me to play games on my TV.
- ivarious 13y agoI don't know, this controller doesn't look like very comfortable for platforming/fighting/action games.
- Pxtl 13y agoRealistically I think fans of those genres will be sticking to the current approach of using a PS3/XBox pad on their machine. Valve may have to sell a 1st-party knock-off of such a controller just for completeness. This device is for Valve's massive library of PC games that need a keyboard and mouse that are normally unplayable in the living room (unless your living room includes a desk, in which case it's not really a living room now is it?)
- fournm 13y agoI'm skeptical and I'm going to stay that way until I actually get to try it because of the haptic feedback, but.. The face button layout also gets to me. That's going to require some serious mental gymnastics to re-wire 20+ years of face button layout muscle memory to use this in some games (edit: especially platformers).
- Pxtl 13y agoI'm thinking Valve basically wrote off retrogaming with this device - it's after the modern genres that are completely split between the PC-style mouse-and-keyboard and the console-style thumbsticks-and-shoulders. A retrogaming pad would be nice as an additional peripheral to sell, but realistically you can use any existing bluetooth gamepad with Steam.
- gknoy 13y agoGood point: Since it works w/ any gamepad, in theory, you should be able to get a nice bluetooth version of your SNES pad and have it Just Work. If you're already playing those kinds of games, you might already have one for your computer anyway.
- redthrowaway 13y agoThe bigger story for me is that Valve has managed to once again troll its fans with a "3" announcement. This is starting to have flavours of Stockholm Syndrome.
- Demeno 13y agoIn their defense, while having 3 things to announce, they did "number" them "O", "[O ]" and "O+O", none of which look like a 3...
- redthrowaway 13y agoNothing to defend; I think it's hilarious. Although I do think it would make sense to announce HL3 for the Steam Machine on launch day.
- ihsw 13y agoPersonally I think Half-Life 3 will be worth the weight.
- skriticos2 13y agoI thought software did not weight anything - oh wait..
- ufo 13y agoThe "worth the weight" thing is a joke. Theres an urban legend that says that the HL3 release gets postponed by 1 month every time someone makes a joke about Gabe Newell being fat.
- cheald 13y agoI'm actually pretty optimistic about this. It's a big divergence from current couch input schemes, and the open nature of it might mean that it'll be improved for ergonomics and whatnot. It's got some interesting promise. Best of all, worst case, I can fall back to my trusty 360 controllers and use those without a hitch, so even if this is a disaster, it doesn't sink the platform (as can be the case with other platforms)
- flanbiscuit 13y agoI'm trying to be optimistic about it. I like that they are going somewhere new with controllers. Already I can imagine those Y and B buttons not being easy/natural to get to. and of course not having at least one actual joystick is going to throw me off. (I game a lot with my Macbook Pro and I've gotten very very good with the mac trackpad, but I still like my WASD keys for the left hand). But again, all of these are my own issues and I'm very much willing to give this joystick a shot.
- djcary 13y agoI was a bit disappointed until I read the bit about hardware hack-ability. Accessibility in games is an oft ignored topic. The open nature of these controllers will hopefully lead to more games being playable by disabled gamers as people extend the hardware. Of course, the flip side of that coin is people modifying the controller to gain an unfair advantage.
- ZoFreX 13y ago> Of course, the flip side of that coin is people modifying the controller to gain an unfair advantage. Nothing stopping the community doing the same thing and sharing the results with everyone, though!
- djcary 13y agoVery true! When it releases, I may try to use data from an Eye Tribe (http://theeyetribe.com/ http://theeyetribe.com/) to drive the right trackpad output. The added cost seems like a valid deterrent against people just trying to cheat, and a bearable cost for someone who wants to play games but is incapable of using a traditional controller.
- acgourley 13y agoThis is huge. Consider that first person shooters are the largest genre in the livingroom gaming space, and then consider this controller may change how these games are made and played. Other consoles are locked into a thumbstick system for the next 10 years. How big this is will come down to how the controller works and feels, obviously, but it could be just massive.
- ivarious 13y agoI think the reason that using mouse is more precise is not because of its shape, but because we use at least all of our palm to use it while with controllers you only have one thumb to connect the stick with your body.
- icebraining 13y agoI disagree. I think the reason is more fundamental: with a mouse, you're doing a direct translation (distance in pad → distance on screen), while with a gamepad you're doing an indirect translation (distance in stick → velocity in screen). This is harder, because you're essentially forced to calculate (in a low conscious way, of course) distance/speed to know for how much time you should turn the stick.
- ivarious 13y agoYou're correct. I guess this is why I speculate that the new trackpads uncomfortable with action/platforming games, since in those games, you move your character and dictate their speed (velocity plus direction), not pointing their position. We'll see of course, and since the controller will be "hackable" I think there will be many way to use the controller for many types of games. Edit for spelling
- eric_cc 13y agoThis isn't true. With a mouse you have acceleration settings that greatly change how distance works. Flick your mouse up quick vs slowly move it and measure how much distance you've moved your mouse relative to where your mouse moved to on the screen.
- pdknsk 13y agoWhile I applaud Valve for marching in a new direction, I'll remain very skeptical until I've tried the controller myself. I doubt that the immediate feedback and precision of a traditional console controller can be emulated using trackpads, as advanced and "haptic" as they may be.
- pak 13y agoI've played some FPS games with a trackpad for lack of having a mouse available, and on a larger, higher precision one (e.g., Macbook size) it was not a bad experience at all. You can move a finger a lot faster than a whole arm. Reflex high-res motion at the pro Counter-Strike level isn't likely, but for the casual gamer, trackpad FPS control absolutely seemed plausible. So I believe this kind of input will work for many games that need pointing, and I also believe it will solidly outpace analog sticks for FPS games. The Halo two-analog-stick model that has taken over the genre was always awkward and imprecise compared to keyboard/mouse (probably most of the skill in Halo was simply getting used to the stick dead zones and the acceleration/deceleration of the look field). I will be happy to see it fade away.
- famousactress 13y agoI haven't used a thumb-controlled trackpad, but do use a trackball which I'm imagining might be the most-similar experience to this input controller, since it's a thumb gesture but still much closer to the precision of touching a surface than wiggling a stick. I'll be really excited if this makes the FPS experience in my living room actually work for me.
- RandallBrown 13y agoTry as I might, I can't get used to moving around with my keyboard. While I might be slightly more accurate at aiming with my mouse, actually moving around with a controller is considerably better for me. To each their own.
- TsiCClawOfLight 13y agoI understand the moving thing, though I got used to it really well - but the accuracy of my mouse is so much better that it makes the difference between getting killed and dominating.
- jlgreco 13y ago> You can move a finger a lot faster than a whole arm. If you're moving your arm to move your mouse, there is probably something wrong with your mouse.
- theschwa 13y agoDoes anyone have further information on the "dual linear resonant actuators"?
- chasing 13y agoInteresting. Game controllers are a fascinating user experience design challenge. While Playstation and Xbox controllers are fairly well-polished functional workhorses, I appreciate companies (like Nintendo and, now, Valve) pushing the envelope. More than even the games (which, I suspect, will also mostly be available on other consoles or PCs), this intrigues me enough to want to get a Steam Machine. (Still, though -- that's a bit of a cumbersome name.)
- ivarious 13y agoJust call it a "Machine".
- leishulang 13y agotry to google the price for "Machine"
- ijk 13y agoValve has a high page-rank for "Steam", what makes you think that they can't also co-opt "Machine"?
- adambard 13y ago"Steambox" works well enough.
- Danieru 13y agoLets call it "The One", just to spite MS's marketers.
- Keyframe 13y agoEven if it doesn't work, we can expect something to spawn from that in the future. Joypads tend to evolve across companies and products. Remember D-Pad and start-select from NES and L+R and 4 group buttons from SNES, then N64 with analogue stick and rumble while PS1 had handles and Saturn added analogue L-R, Dreamcast take it from there, Xbox took what Dreamcast had and perfected it over two iterations, while Sony... ah you get it.
- kevinh 13y agoIt looks like yet another controller with some special, device-specific features (advanced haptic feedback) that will only be supported by their first-party games and a few novelty ones. I wouldn't buy one before trying it.
- timdiggerm 13y ago> Even the older titles in the catalog and the ones which were not built with controller support. (We’ve fooled those older games into thinking they’re being played with a keyboard and mouse, but we’ve designed a gamepad that’s nothing like either one of those devices.
- NDizzle 13y agoHow long before the Thinkpad Nub/pointing stick guys are demanding a nub version rather than a trackpad version? Think of the size reduction!
- gfodor 13y agoJesus. So I might finally end up playing the ridiculously huge Steam library I've accumulated over the years. Rad.
- BigChiefSmokem 13y ago^ this was my first thought when I saw the controller. I'll probably build my own Steam box but I'll definitely be buying the Steam Controller. I think this is what they wanted us, the hardcore PC "gaming master race" to do, while at the same time offering it up to OEMs for consumption by the console folk. <3 Gaben!
- coryfklein 13y agoMy biggest concern is the possibility of touching the screen in the middle while trying to hit the A,B,X,Y buttons. I know it specifically says you have to physically press the screen down to confirm your choice, but it would be distracting to be inadvertently interacting with the screen.
- ambirex 13y agoDid I miss any sort of guidance for the cost?
- Anonymous9823 13y agoFirst born.
- wnevets 13y agomouse > track pad > analog stick
- Miyamoto 13y agoI want someone to design a mouse for the couch. Mouse provides superior aiming for any shooter games. Mouse isn't critical for movement however, I can move just fine with an analog stick. I'm not sure a trackpad would make movement any easier. First problem: wires. Solution: wireless. Easy. Second and largest problem: you need a surface. If you're on the couch you don't have a mouse surface. You could use your pants or couch cushion as a surface, but that's obviously not ideal. Third problem: non-mouse hand. It needs a controller for movement. It can't be a keyboard, nobody is going to want a keyboard on their couch. I'm thinking something like the numchuck of the Nintendo Wii, except with additional buttons. You could experiment with either an analog stick or trackpad for your thumb. Again, it's not for aiming, it's for movement. Your mouse is for aiming.
- Pxtl 13y agoIt sounds like that's basically what valve's going for here. It's a mouse for the couch, except that instead of a left-hand keyboard we've got a trackpad. That's ambitious in that they think a trackpad can be used in place of a joystick/WSAD, but Valve's bread-and-butter is FPS games so I don't think they'd go for that if they didn't think it'd work.
- richardjs 13y agoSuper Mario 64 DS had an interesting feature where you could put your left thumb on the touch screen and use it like a joystick. The neutral zone would be wherever you put your thumb down, and a little diagram would appear on the touch screen showing where the edges, neutral zone, etc., were. I remember this actually not being too bad. I didn't use it over the D-pad for any precise movement, but part of that was the awkwardness of having to stretch the thumb over the the touch screen. There also was a little thumb pad on the DS strap you had to wear to get it to work smoothly, and that was a little clumsy to use. It was also hard to get a sense of where the neutral zone was, etc., since the only indication was a diagram under your thumb. It looks like this controller takes that same idea and improves on it. You won't have to stretch your thumb or wear a thumb pad, and the circular trackpad maps better to a joystick than an arbitrary circle somewhere on a touch screen. It also looks like there's ridges on the pad, which could help with getting a sense of where you are. If it was sort-of viable as a side feature in a nine-year-old game, I'm optimistic about Valve's ability to make it work. As you said, it's not like Valve is unfamiliar with the area.
- wmf 13y agoPlus, it looks like an owl.
- Fuzzwah 13y agoI think that it is obvious that this dual track pad solution could be a good move for any game style which currently uses dual analog sticks (FPS and 3rd person, etc). As others have already mentioned, it is less obvious whether this will be a good solution for platformers and fighting games. But with a bit of quick pondering I suspect it could open up a huge range of options for any developer who wants to try and step outside the normal "the player will use combinations of button presses to trigger actions". For example, a platformer which rather than using a "tap button to trigger a small jump" and "long press button for a larger jump" we could not only see a "small up scroll = small jump" and "long up scroll = large jump" input method, but also a "slow up scroll = slower jump" and "fast up scroll = faster, more explosive jump". Fighting games could also open up a lot of depth based on the length and speed of right hand strokes, not to mention the variety of angles and rotations which could be made. The more I ponder it, the more I'm hopeful.
- ivarious 13y agoGestures-based fighting game. Clang will like this.
- nekopa 13y agoThis is actually a very interesting observation. Especially as they are making the controller quite open. I don't see the AAA titles working with this soon, as they want to keep their games consistent across platforms, but steam has really been growing for indie devs, and those are exactly the devs that will come up with interesting,unthought of ideas for this type of input
- jpadkins 13y agoThe newer EA boxing games, and the THQ UFC games use dual stick controls as the primary moving/fighting controls. Players seem to like it better than button mashing. I thought it was cool when I learned quick flip left was jab, hold the stick left for more powerful punch, and circle the stick left for a cross or uppercut.
- Pxtl 13y agoRemember that the track-pads are clickable like a face button, and it sports 2 shoulders and a 3rd pseudo-shoulder in the back-button on each side. That means that for a fighting-game you've got a full suite of buttons available to you. That's 9 buttons available assuming you keep your left thumb glued to the trackpad. Buttons are not in short supply. The real question is how well the track-pad works as a D-pad. For Mario-style games that primarily use left and right but don't do much up and down? Should work fine. For a Capcom-style fighting game with its elaborate rolls and whatnot, or the hyper-precise of a shmup? That's the real question.
- michniewski 13y agoThe trackpads look great. Hopefully they can deliver on the promise of making mouse and keyboard games more accessible on the tv console. The Y and B buttons look difficult to press. Given the arc that your thumb travels on pivoting from the base of the controller handles, it may make sense to shift the buttons down and towards the center. I would also consider removing the on-controller screen. It adds a big per-controller cost. Also, when have these been successful? Neither the Wii U nor the Dreamcast did this idea justice. Was it just bad implementation? I think its just a bad idea.
- smrtinsert 13y agoI love how Valve is making me say "I want a Steam machine!" in 2013.
- narwally 13y agoSo Steampunk.
- danso 13y agoWow, the announcements are coming at a fast clip and each more impressive than the last. I wonder if the final announcement in this round will be that Half Life 3 is a launch title?
- Pxtl 13y agoNo, this was the final announcement. Valve clusters their announcements, always.
- nzonbi 13y agoJust wow. Awesome controller. count me in. Compared with the traditional mouse-keyboard controller for FPS games, it easily surpasses the keyboard part as the movement controller. It may or may not have the precision of a mouse as pointing device. But with the haptics feedback, and the comfort of playing from the couch, I can see myself preferring it over a mouse. The most interesting part, is that with this fresh, even innovative design, it looks capable of opening new gameplay styles. I can't wait to try it, and even design software for it.
- mikelat 13y agoCall me impressed. I never thought that the biggest innovator and risk taker in the console market would be valve. All the other manufacturers have basically made their platforms "safe" and they're pretty much like the last generation, but this is pretty ballsy from valve.
- Osiris 13y agoSpeaking on innovation, the Xbox 360 came out with a brand new controller, but the Xbox One has practically the same controller? It's like they didn't take any time to re-evaluate the controller with the new console. For that matter, the PS4 controller is the same except with a small touchpad in the middle.
- scrabble 13y agoIn their defense the 360's controller is considered an amazing controller already, so I understand them only making incremental improvements.
- pyrocat 13y agoThat's really the larger point here. The 360 controller is the standard now, trying to improve upon it when the market is already flooded with that style controller would be a losing battle for Valve. They decided to take a risk and innovate, but it was pretty much their only viable option if they wanted to enter the controller market.
- georgemcbay 13y ago"the Xbox 360 came out with a brand new controller, but the Xbox One has practically the same controller" Calling the 360 controller "brand new" is a big stretch. It wasn't that much more different from the old Xbox Controller S than the Xbox One controller is from the 360's. In terms of technology the One controller with trigger-specific haptic is actually a bigger change than the Controller S->360 which was pretty much just button layout changes. In any case, if something works well, why change it just for change's sake? I love Valve and I'm excited to try this controller, but put me on the list of people that are very skeptical this will actually be an improvement for the types of games that play well with two analog sticks.
- mkaziz 13y ago"You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end." err "You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end?" <--- it's a question now.
- narwally 13y agoThat's just a sentence with a question mark?
- stcredzero 13y agoIt is?
- Pxtl 13y ago... HN ate my post, I think. I am super-excited for this. Finally a way to bring FPS (without aim-assist) and RTS games into the living room. I don't even care about the OS and the box itself, I crave this device. Even if it doesn't measure up to a mouse, it will still be a massive improvement over the traditional thumbstick for pointing-device-oriented games. My only disappointment is that I wish they'd added a scrollwheel to the right shoulder. Then we'd have a full mouse control-set in your right hand. The scrollwheel is nice for zooming and panning in RTS games.
- stirbot 13y agoThat's some right-handed elitism right there.
- Pxtl 13y ago... touchee. I hadn't thought of that at all. Including two scrollwheels would be doubly expensive and thus kinda wasteful, and including only one means giving a south-pawed middle finger to the sinister folk.
- gknoy 13y agoIncluding two wheels lets you scroll TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. That would be awesome. Many games use mouse wheel for weapon switch, and something else for choosing secondary-items (e.g. grenades in Far Cry). You could use it to queue up preselected groups of chat commands usable with the touch pad ("enemy in flag room", "enemies inc to mine", etc), use it for a throttle control (!!), or all sorts of things. Having two scroll wheels instead of one is not as bad as you might think -- and even just using one still lets you remap them as you see fit anyway.
- Dylan16807 13y agoI'm not convinced of that. You can argue that letting the dominant hand focus on things other than scrolling would be a better scheme. It probably doesn't significantly matter, and I think it's silly that people insist on mirroring things that don't need to be mirrored, like mouse buttons.
- earlz 13y agoSuddenly, I see absolutely no reason to buy an XBox One (and I'm a traditional XBox fan boy)
- fartface 13y agoi'm rooting for this thing so hard. i have hundreds of games sans controller support that i never play because i run big picture mode in the living room with an xbox controller for the few games that do have controller support.
- Pxtl 13y ago"Including two on the back" Holy crap wait what? Not highlighted in any of the diagrams but visible in the teardown graphic, there's an extra pair of buttons on the back in ring-finger position too. They said 16 buttons, so it's two front touchpad/buttons, 1 front screen/button, 3 nav-buttons (the bars along the bottom) 4 face-buttons (a/b/x/y) 4 shoulder-buttons and 2 hidden back-side buttons.
- vinkelhake 13y ago16 "buttons" is what we have on current gen console controllers. The 360 has four shoulder buttons, A, B, X, Y, D-pad, start, select and click functionality on both analogue sticks. Some games (GTA V) come close to using all of them.
- Pxtl 13y agoYeah. In the typical twin-stick usage, this thing is missing one button on each side - it's got an extra shoulder button on each side (the ones on the back) but in the place of the 4 right face buttons and the left D-pad it's got 2 face buttons on each side. Realistically, the other 4 buttons (the 3 bars on the bottom and the touch-screen) don't map to normal gameplay buttons, whereas a Sony/XBox gamepad will only have two of those "non-gameplay" buttons. So technically, this thing has 2 fewer "gameplay buttons" than a typical controller. But it has a touchscreen, and you can put a lot of the low-reflexes stuff in there.
- Siecje 13y agoIt seems like it would be hard to play fighting games where you have to hit combinations of buttons quickly.
- andybak 13y agoYep. Those kind of games were designed to map very closely to the physical nature of gamepads so they will be harder to use the further you diverge from a typical Playstation style controller.
- X4 13y agoEat that SONY! This is how you really make a Game Controller.
- EFruit 13y agoI can't wait for it. Oddly enough, it seems like valve used the earlier patent as flak. I just hope the Linux drivers are open source, if they're not piggybacking off bluetooth or something.
- eddielee6 13y agobravo.
- ClarkAulden 13y agoThis is very encouraging. There appears to be non-trivial innovation here and that has me excited. I too am interested in how the controller will handle fighting games. The haptic feedback seems particularly interesting because It seems possible that just maybe there could be an effect similar to the one described here: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-05/27/disney-tactile-brush http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-05/27/disney-tactil... that might allow fingers to "feel" as though there were buttons or edges or some similar effect. That might allow for a precise and traditionally intuitive fighting game experience as well as interesting new applications.
- purplelobster 13y agoOk, that's it, if this controller works then I'm in. I played Portal with my wife, and she loved it, but she's too afraid of the whole mouse+keyboard control system so in the end she let me play while she just watched. I think she can more easily learn a controller like this. Also, I frickin' hate analog sticks for controlling shooters. After having been a semi-serious CS player, I just can't bring my self to enjoying my severely crippled aiming on consoles, it just takes 50% of the fun out.
- ZoFreX 13y agoHave you checked out Portal 2? It has co-op and decent controller support, I played through the co-op campaign for a second time with a 360 controller last week (used keyboard + mouse the first time).
- ivarious 13y agohttp://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/prototypes.jpg http://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin... Looks effing comfy.
- kibwen 13y agoAre those buttons on the back of the controller? I'd be ecstatic if that's the case. I've always suspected that having buttons on the back would allow for a more natural grip than shunting buttons onto the shoulders. It may have made sense for the SNES' flat bone controller, but not in the age of controllers with thick, ergonomic palm grips.
- bones6 13y agoI see a little trigger on the back on the right. I'm sure there's one on the left, too.
- nerfhammer 13y agoDoesn't look like it http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_schematic.png http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...
- Karzyn 13y agoI'd say so. If you look at the sample Portal 2 Bindings [1] the labels on the bottom seem to pointing underneath the controller and in the disassembly image [2] there seems to be another button-looking piece in front of the bottom portion. [1]: http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_bindings.jpg?v=2 http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin... [2]: http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_parts.jpg?v=2 http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...
- Arkeus 13y ago> There are a total of sixteen buttons on the Steam Controller. Half of them are accessible to the player without requiring thumbs to be lifted from the trackpads, including two on the back. Yes, looks like both of those are triggers (or buttons) on the back.
- nickik 13y agoGood old Z Button on the N64 was always the best to shoot stuff. Goldgun walk around the conrner Z, dead. I generally like more buttons instead of all these other things consoles use, you can easly have four buttons on the back, maybe more. The PS always used to have two shulder buttons, witch I did not like because you either had to us your index finger for both. I imagen something where they are just in the back where my fingers naturally would be.
- mortenjorck 13y agoI've been waiting years for someone to build a controller like this. Somehow, I never actually imagined two trackpads – my concept had always been a D-pad on the left and a trackpad on the right, mimicking the traditional mouse-and-keyboard setup of the PC first-person shooter, but this makes far more sense and allows for much more flexible repurposing of controls to different games (as well as letting left-handed gamers flip their controls). This is, at last, the controller for FPS games, and more importantly, for the next generation of non-shooter first-person games. It's amazing to see the horrified backlash in the comments sections on gaming sites right now: People just don't get that this isn't for the button-heavy games they already play; it enables new interactions with new kinds of environment-based experiences. I wasn't particularly interested in any of Valve's announcements earlier this week, but they certainly have my attention now.
- Arjuna 13y ago"Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller's resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse." [...] "The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads." Wow. It sounds as though they have managed to combine mouse-like precision with the simulated, tactile feel of a physical, analog stick. I suspect that there will be user-defined settings, so that you can set the precision of the tracking, allowing you to achieve the perfect "free look" (a.k.a. mouse look) and standard character movement, based on how much pressure you tend to personally (and independently) apply to each surface. That is very compelling.
- joenathan 13y agoHow would one play something like Street Fighter with this controller, the button placement seems like it wouldn't allow for a good experience with fighters or even platformers.
- christoph 13y agoI'm not entirely sure it's been designed with games like that in mind. I imagine the expectation is you use another pad (e.g Xbox controller) for a game like Street Fighter - or in that case, ideally an arcade stick.
- slantyyz 13y agoNote that there are also six button fighting pads that should be compatible with the Steam Machines too. The one in particular that I find most interesting is the one for the upcoming Hyperkin RetroN5 -- it's a six button bluetooth controller with a microswitch based thumbpad (much like the ones that came with Neo Geo home units from the 90s). http://hyperkin.com/blog/2013/03/retron-5-details-revealed-from-the-midwest-gaming-classic/ http://hyperkin.com/blog/2013/03/retron-5-details-revealed-f...
- shmoogin 13y ago
- stelonix 13y agoI have to say, the biggest letdown for the next-gen consoles was the complete lack of haptic feedback. It's 2013, and while I welcome better graphics, they won't be enough to give immersion (still not even close to real life-like). Haptic feedback can be, in my opinion, a huge factor both in immersion and gameplay mechanics.
- narwally 13y agoHopefully this announcement will push Sony and Microsoft in the right direction, they can always come out with a controller redesign after the consoles are released.
- thenonsequitur 13y agoI think it's great that Valve is innovating on controllers. Personally, I won't buy one -- I don't intend on getting a steam machine so I'd only be using it with my computer anyway, and I don't think this will ever beat a keyboard/mouse in terms of practicality and ease of use. But that aside, I'm glad they are at least trying to make a next-generation controller -- gives me hope there might one day be a controller I actually like. Though I'm not particularly hyped about the controller-specific features via API. For a game system that usually ranks accessibility very highly, the idea of device-tied game features strikes me as a somewhat regressive move, even if the features themselves are progressive.
- methodin 13y agoKeyboard and mouse is terrible for sitting in front of a tv, so in that regard, this is compelling enough for me to play games while not sitting in a secluded office room desk hah
- thenonsequitur 13y agoYeah, I agree with you. I should have qualified what I said. I meant to say, "I'd only be using it with my computer anyway, and I don't think this will ever beat a keyboard/mouse in terms of practicality and ease of use with a computer". Agree that for a tv in the living room, or any environment where a large flat surface in front of you is impractical, that a keyboard/mouse is not so good.
- gfodor 13y agoImagine this sucker paired with the Oculus. Interesting times.
- forgeman 13y agoMy thoughts exactly!
- agumonkey 13y agoVery impressive train of release and innovation from Valve. Joy inducing.
- rthomas6 13y agoThe big star picture at http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ has gotten larger and brighter after every announcement. Some people on reddit are speculating that there will be a fourth announcement that comes out of the star.
- evanmoran 13y agoSadly, at the bottom of this announcement they say "What’s next? We’re done with our announcements." Which seems pretty definitive.
- romaniv 13y agoWhile this might be a good replacement for console controllers, I seriously doubt that it will be successful in replacing keyboard and mouse for FPSes, RTSes, point-and-click adventures and other genres that currently make PC game market interesting. Which makes me sad. Valve is effectively turning its back on the games (and gamers) that allowed it succeed despite competition from consoles. Personally, I am keenly interested in a better, more standardized and streamlined gaming PC, but I'm not at all interested in yet another game console with limited controls, centralized publisher model and locked down OS. (And please, don't insult your intelligence by saying something along the lines of "but you can always plug keyboard in". It's not a matter of what you plug into the system, it's a matter of what UI design the system encourages.)
- nilkn 13y ago> Valve is effectively turning its back on the games (and gamers) that allowed it succeed despite competition from consoles. I don't see how they are turning their backs on anyone just because they're venturing into a new market segment. The current system, where people have both gaming PCs and separate gaming consoles, doesn't make a modicum of sense practically. It's just a vestige of old monopolies and corporate competitions which led to this state. Ideally, one could just have a gaming machine with less of a distinction between whether it's a "PC" or a "console". > I'm not at all interested in yet another game console with limited controls, centralized publisher model and locked down OS. I thought one of the points of the Steam machines is that they're not locked down at all.
- romaniv 13y agoI don't see how they are turning their backs on anyone just because they're venturing into a new market segment. Same way Microsoft turned its back on PC game(r)s with it's "Games for Windows" brand, which really is "Games for XBox shabbily ported to Windows". I thought one of the points of the Steam machines is that they're not locked down at all. Will it run games not distributed through Steam?
- vertex-four 13y ago
- paulgerhardt 13y agoI got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you have two smaller independent planes for each thumb). For FPS's it will really shine, but keep in mind that Valve also makes DOTA2 so I'm sure they're more than aware of the need to make this work across genres. For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I imagine they have spent many iterations on the problem, and I am very excited to see the fruits of their labor. [1] Full disclosure, by some odd coincidence she happens to be my sister and also did the industrial design for Lockitron so I am wayy biased here.
- deletes 13y agoWhat do you mean by having an extra plane. The mouse already covers a 2d surface, how would an extra plane help you with that? The analog trackpad does have an advantage over a keyboard but not over a mouse, i think.
- mbrubeck 13y agoIn a typical keyboard+mouse FPS game, for example, you get 2D analog "look" controls with the mouse, but much more limited 2D "move" controls with the keyboard. With two analog sticks/trackpads/mice/etc. you can get the same range of control over both. That's what the two "planes" give you.
- skorgu 13y agoTo expand on this: In most FPSes your move commands are binary, "W" or nothing. You can alter them a bit with combinations, Shift-W to sprint or perhaps Ctrl-W to crawl but you're still limited to a handful of preset speeds. I could easily imagine being able to use a continuous axis to encapsulate walk/jog/sprint being quite a bit more intuitive and precise.
- gosukiwi 13y agoI highly doubt you can play dota without a keyboard and mouse, but it surely can work for other games :)
- Pxtl 13y agoDota 2 will likely be one of the flagships of this thing. I don't know how well it will work - likely you won't make it to the top of the league with this. But you can be damned well sure that Valve had Dota 2 in mind when they made this, and they will do everything possible to make Dota 2 play nicely on it.
- kelvie 13y agoI can last hit OK with a trackball (after some getting used to, thanks to RSI), but edge scrolling is difficult. With two trackballs, perhaps one of the wheels can be used for moving the screen, and the other for moving the mouse. They've implemented a "chat-wheel" with common in-game phrases to help with communications as well, which seems to be a perfect fit for controller play. I just can't wait for the day where I can invite people over, buy an 80" TV, and play Dota 2 split screened on controllers!
- Pxtl 13y agoOn an 80" screen I'd want to see a DOTA-like game that zooms out and shows all the action in a single-screen, Super Smash Bros style.
- alexeisadeski3 13y agoWhy not just use a mouse+kb? I've been living room gaming w/wireless mouse+kb for years and years now. No problems at all doing this from the couch. Kb in your lap, mouse by your side with a hard metal mousepad.
- muraiki 13y agoI have some RSI problems in my left hand that prevent me from holding down WASD for movement in games. For the most part now I just play controller-based games, but there's plenty of PC games that don't support (or don't work well with) controllers. I had thought for a long time that it'd be nice to have a one-handed analog stick controller for my left hand, covered in buttons on the back, coupled with a mouse. It would actually give me finer control over movement than a keyboard, but with the aiming capability of a mouse. This device isn't exactly that, but I'm really interested in this device to see how it helps with my RSI when gaming. I'm also curious as to how the haptic feedback will work. Maybe I should sign up for that beta after all!
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agoAt first I thought Gabe should have said something earlier in the week stating "hardware announcements" Then I realized how much mindshare the gaming community is giving a game that doesn't even exist a week after a game launches to the tune of a billion dollars. The man is smart.
- 9999 13y agoThis looks absolutely fantastic, but it's a bit of a shame that they will only be distributing them with the 300 beta kits. It would be nice if they could get more of them out into the wild so people can actually hold one and see how it feels. The only thing I cared about at E3 this year was seeing how the PS4 and Xbox One controllers actually felt in use. It's interesting that they seem to have designed it largely to be used with existing game designs and input requirements in mind, but they've also made something that can create totally new input patterns and uses. The clickable joysticks on the playstation and xbox controllers were sadly never fully usable by designers because they don't work in a scenario where you want the player to click and hold but still be able to navigate with the stick. Obviously the haptic trackpad solves the click and drag to select mechanism that an RTS demands, but think of all of the other things that a click, hold and drag might be able to do in something like a boxing game, an FPS, a shmup (dual stick ikaruga on one pad with a game designed for it?) or even something like QWOP. I really hope they make this available to more people.
- shurcooL 13y ago> The Steam Community can use the configuration tool to create and share bindings > for their favorite games. Players can choose from a list of the most popular > configurations. Finally, some real innovation for the "default controls" experience in games after 10+ years. Very nice. Instead of hard-coded controls that the devs put in, you'll start with a community-upvoted scheme that can evolve and get better over time.
- lnanek2 13y agoMultiple dual axis haptics is interesting. Also an absolute position touchpad for looking around could actually be the fastest way to look at a particular position. Plus an LCD. Very interesting. Definitely not just an also ran.
- mistercow 13y ago>n order to avoid forcing players to divide their attention between screens, a critical feature of the Steam Controller comes from its deep integration with Steam. When a player touches the controller screen, its display is overlayed on top of the game they’re playing, allowing the player to leave their attention squarely on the action, where it belongs. OK, that solves that problem, so I agree with the decision, but why even have a screen on the controller then? Seems like an unnecessary added cost, when most players will never actually look at it.
- prawn 13y agoGiven that it's pretty much symmetrical, I wonder if it would've been possible to split it into two parts (each the same) and move the touchscreen elsewhere. The future, if you believe Sixense/etc is in controllers held by each hand with each arm free to move independently. Allows for less space for electronics and duplication I guess. Just find it funny that the future in late 2013 is still something requiring that our hands are held so closely together.
- gpmcadam 13y agoI'm a bit miffed regarding all of the hype for what is essentially, at this point, vapour-ware. Also, why have Valve bothered to spread the announcement over 5 days? Surely this whole deal would've been more beneficial to be a keynote style announcement with some actual demos of the tech in question? As great a product as it may be, in my opinion there's an awful lot of excitement surrounding the announcement that Valve will eventually announce something ... next year ... probably. I think I'll reserve my judgement on all of this until I can actually use it, or at least see it in use.
- NoodleIncident 13y agoSign up for the hardware beta then. This isn't vaporware.
- machbio 13y agoI just want to say ^:)^ to steam
- tuananh 13y agoIMHO, controllers will not work well enough for FPS for a foreseeable future. Trying to play sniper with a controller is just hopeless.
- shire 13y agoNice concept! would be interesting to play this with 0 A.D or Age of Empires.
- journeeman 13y agoIs that an Xfce panel on the top, in the image? Looks like Steam on Xubuntu.
- LindaWell 13y agomy neighbor's step-aunt makes $73 hourly on the laptop. She has been out of work for 9 months but last month her payment was $13411 just working on the laptop for a few hours. i was reading this.............http://redir.ec/buzz55 http://redir.ec/buzz55
- fosk 13y agoSteam is a company that should be feared by the big players.
- trippy_biscuits 13y agoIt looks like it could work. I think I'd accidentally press the buttons on the back, though. Does anyone remember the SpaceOrb 360 [1]? I had one for a little while but returned it because it just didn't work as well for me as did a keyb/mouse combo. If microsoft won't match console gamers against PC gamers [2], how will steam pull it off? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 [2] http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-a...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ajcarpy2005 13y agoI'm impressed by how much creative innovation they've put into the design! The button-mounted display strikes me as particularly interesting as I'm not familiar with any mainstream device which has ever had one of those. Trackpads, button-mounted touch-enabled displays, high fidelity haptic feedback, symmetrical control layout...all I can say is awesome. It will be interesting to see what people think about the trackpads for sure.
- beloch 13y ago"...gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller’s resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse." Initially, I scoffed at this design ("Of course it's not as good as a mouse for FPS games!), but then I thought about it. Traditional gamepads aren't just a little bit worse than mice for FPS's. They're utter shit. You have to completely rebalance a FPS for gamepad users because they're so clumsy compared to a mouse&keyboard user. Still, gamepads are ergonomically fantastic for what they're designed for. Sitting on a couch, surrounded by buddies, they can't be beat for comfort and compactness. Trackpads are a lot better than gamepads for precision control, but they're still inferior to mice. This is no surprise. A mouse is centered around a single (okay, sometimes two) point(s) of laser-powered high-precision optical sensing. A trackpad is a giant array of sensors that are trying to approximate your intent from where the center of a mushy blob of flesh is mashed up against it applying pressure. Multi-touch gesture commands can help compensate for this in many applications, but a FPS really demands a single, focused, high-quality stream of user input, and the mouse is still god, emperor, and king when it comes to that! This steam controller is intermediate between a joystick and a mouse, and Valve is being honest about it. It's not going to be as precise as a mouse, but it promises to be better than a joystick. Yeah, that sounds wishy-washy, but only until you consider just how long the joystick has been with us. We're talking about a method of input that hearkens back to the first automobiles ever built. It's a big honking lever for applying force to a mechanical steering apparatus! The joystick was not birthed out of the need for precision input, but rather, out of the necessity to amplify human strength. This controller, albeit an obvious evolution once you've seen it, is genius. If Valve succeeds in delivering it, all existing gamepads will be rendered obsolete. I don't know if the steambox will succeed because of this, but I know I'd rather use one of these than the XBox360 controller I (very) occasionally dust off to play console titles that have been (incompetently) ported to the PC! Even if the steambox is an utter failure, I think this controller will be a runaway success. I know Gabe has a huge grudge against Microsoft over their app store, but both MS and Valve could benefit if steambox controller support was baked into the Xbox One. Ditto for Sony and the PS4. This controller could change the course of the console wars.
- Anonymous9823 13y agoI don't understand the FPS debate. Do you know what's better for racing games? http://i.imgur.com/HYOmoQl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HYOmoQl.jpg - Racing Wheel and Pedals Flying games? http://i.imgur.com/ejf4hPf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ejf4hPf.jpg - Joysticks Fighting games? http://i.imgur.com/2lrevkG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2lrevkG.jpg - Arcade Sticks There's one device that works best for every single game genre, and mouse and keyboard is that device for FPS games. Why do people expect one device to match the functionality of all of the above inputs. They're vastly different experiences, it's simply not going to happen. Controllers work great for action games, platformers, and overall, they're the best well rounded device. They're not designed to compete with the above controllers, they're a general input device, so they're not going to be as efficient as something built for a specific task. If you're a hardcore FPS gamer, bring your mouse and keyboard into the living room, or play at your desk. This is no different than someone buying a wheel if they're into racing simulators. I think Valve is achieving an even more well rounded device. By the sounds of things, it'll improve the FPS and RTS experience on a controller. It'll most likely make sacrifices to achieve that goal. For example, fighting games might work better on a more traditional controller. However, the Steam library has a much higher number of FPS and RTS games, so that trade off makes sense.
- QuiteMouse 13y agoI still have doubts about this controller being worthwhile but Valve has never led me astray before. I am willing to reserve judgement. Steam needs to release Source Engine 2 with multi-platform support baked in before they can ever hope to make a dent in the console market with living room gaming though.