11 ms·

Texas teen makes violent joke during video game, is jailed

181 points by jamesbritt 13y ago

pfortuny 13y ago
When "threats" like this get you in jail, it is time to admit we are in the USSR and not elsewhere. Read Soljenitsin; you have this for real. Not just a novel like 1984, the very real thing, like being afraid of making a joke, of criticizing nr. 1.
- jsonne 13y ago
  This is complete hyperbole and you know it. Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Fraudulent elections? A one party state? The fact that you made this comment on a public forum is evidence enough that we are nowhere even close to living in a police state.
  - pfortuny 13y ago
    Yes, this is hyperbole, like the poor kid's. And just because you had to answer it and reflect a little on it, it has served its purpose. Exactly. So: we are not exactly there but do you not see the writing on the wall? Being afraid of making a joke is hideous. And being afraid because of the police is, honestly, horrendous. EDIT: did I say anything wrong? Enjoy the downvotes.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      >did I say anything wrong? Yes you did. You're basically pulling the puppetmaster defense of 'I said something incorrect but you reacted so I win'. People tend not to like that argument.
  - Alex3917 13y ago
    "Where are the secret police whisking away 'dissenters' in the middle of the night?" You mean like the 40-50,000 swat team raids against non-violent political dissenters that the US government carries out each year, almost always in the middle of the night?
    - pfortuny 13y ago
      Even more: you can get phone-swatted, is it really believable?
      - downandout 13y ago
        That is an interesting thought. At any moment, an officer that can't get a search warrant could anonymously call 911 from a burner cell or pay phone and report a violent situation. That alone is enough for a full-scale paramilitary invasion of the target's home or office.
        anaptdemise 13y ago
        Doesn't even have to be violent. Just as easy to roll an informant to claim drugs dealings at a residence. Drugs seem to be easiest way to get a no-knock raid, even if your mayor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor's_residence_drug_raid http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayo...
    - thetrb 13y ago
      So more than 100 a day? Where do you have that number from?
      - Alex3917 13y ago
        http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-p...
        13y ago
  - will_brown 13y ago
    I honestly can not tell if you are being sarcastic or not... >Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Think IRS targeting; think of the secret targeted kill lists (not only can you not know who is on it, you can not know the criteria to get on it). >Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Check the farms where you will find field hands who are likely undocumented immigrants. Or check the slums, no need to physically relocate anyone when you can economically relocate them. >Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Thank goodness there is no argument here. However, we do have indefinite detentions and targeted kill lists without due process/judicial review. Maybe not mass executions, but one targeted killing by the government is to much for my tastes. >Fraudulent elections? Um...2000 Bush v. Gore? Florida? Certainly no known fraud, but an election decided by a single state and a few hundred votes, where thousands went missing for a period of time, not to mention the "faulty ballots" in Florida. I would say this is more like MLB during the steroid era, sure the new records still stand, but there is a asterisk next to the names. >A one party state? You have a choice between red or blue, either way you get budget deficits, a surveillance state, Gitmo, war of terror(opps *on), ect...
    - lukifer 13y ago
      Read up on Greg Palast's investigation of voting machines. There's substantial evidence of vote tampering in 2000 and 2004.
      - specialist 13y ago
        VoterAction.org proved in court that Kerry won New Mexico in 2004, even though its electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Just the tip of the iceberg.
      - adventured 13y ago
        And the regular, massive voter fraud throughout major Democrat strongholds like Philadelphia. There's little question BOTH parties are engaging in routine election fraud.
        13y ago
  - StandardFuture 13y ago
    You are referring to things such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor ...but we are not talking in terms of building a model showing the equivalence in replica between each state's government and actions (actually Stalin was a very 'unique' dictator, the same as Hitler, in relation to ANY other leader). We are talking in terms of ideology behind a governments actions e.g. a complete disrespect for individual freedoms granted by the constitution. Tha kid was placed in jail for uttering a joke. Come on.
  - downandout 13y ago
    The US incarceration rate is higher than Russia's during the height of the KGB. That's right: while the political goals and tactics are different and somehow palatable to a pliable US population, the net results of our current system are actually worse than those of most oppressive regimes in the history of the world. What's worse is that there is no end in sight. The NSA scandal has shown the the people who make it into elected office these days are all about the same. US elections are nothing more than political theater designed to delude the population into thinking that it can make choices, when in fact the end result will be the same regardless of whom they choose. Who needs rigged elections in this environment?
  - taylodl 13y ago
    Don't need secret police when the kids are whisked off to jail in broad daylight, out in the open. Secret police are only required when one wants to hide such grievous acts. Quite the opposite is the case now - our leaders our proud they're Fighting Terrorists.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    You must be living in some sort of alternate reality dreamstate where these things don't happen routinely. Allow me to attempt to wake you up: Eternal NSA surveillance. The TSA. No-fly lists. Secret prisons. Guantanamo Bay. Election rigging. Being targeted by IRS. The percentage of population that is in prison (much higher than USSR at the height of its power). I could go on. Out of everything you stated, the only thing we don't have is mass executions of political prisoners. But the fact is, the differences between the USA and USSR are only on a matter of scale. And that scale is growing at an alarming rate.
    - rdouble 13y ago
      Where are the secret prisons, anyway?
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        Almost all of them are overseas, outside of US territory and jurisdiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_site...
      - bussierem 13y ago
        Also, why are they still considered "secret" if random people on HN are discussing them candidly?
        alanh 13y ago
        Because their locations are or were undisclosed, and obviously not even everyone here has heard of them. They exist. Edited in reply They are explicitly said to exist in Hollywood propaganda film Zero Dark Thirty (2013). No, this is not proof, although it is evidence. If the establishment wants us to believe they exist, is that not troubling enough?
        Arnor 13y ago
        FYI hollywood propaganda films aren't usually the best citations... EDIT: spelling counts...
- rayiner 13y ago
  When "threats" like this get you in jail, it's time to admit the speaker is in small-town Texas (New Braunfels, TX, population 57,000, 30 miles outside of San Antonio and surrounded by nothing: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=E+Ashby+Pl&daddr=S+Walnut+Ave&hl=en&ll=29.699982,-98.091431&spn=0.22456,0.308647&sll=29.702368,-98.12439&sspn=1.79637,2.469177&geocode=FbJbwQEd8SYh-g%3BFVEhxQEdFZAm-g&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=9&t=m&z=12 https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=E+Ashby+Pl&daddr=S+Walnut...).
  - namlem 13y ago
    How is that an excuse? Not to mention, 57,000 is not that small of a town.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      Small towns do stupid things the world over. It's like a universal constant. And for better or worse, in the U.S. there is relatively little high-level supervision of how small towns police themselves. Holding this kid for what he said is clearly unconstitutional. I think every federal court in the country would hold likewise. But a police department in a small town where residents are scared to death of another Columbine or Sandy Hook? They don't care about the first amendment, and they never have. Small towns have never been a place where you could just say whatever you wanted. They've never had that mentality. It's just much more visible now that everything is on the internet.
      - pfortuny 13y ago
        And then again: who will pay for damages? You can bet: 1) nobody 2) nobody but the parents 3) nobody but the kid, who will have to go to jail for being insolvent 4) more nobody Of course he MAY get an apology from the Government. Or, come to think of it, he may not...
        anigbrowl 13y ago
        Of course he MAY get an apology from the Government Which government?
- StandardFuture 13y ago
  It's worse. We are in an USSR running on capitalism. Which means a much wealthier and more efficient USSR.
  - adventured 13y ago
    America isn't a Capitalist nation and hasn't been for decades. America is between a mixed economy and Socialism, with the world's largest welfare system, and 'social safety net.' 3/4 of the massive Federal budget goes to social welfare programs. From 1930 to perhaps the early 1980s, the US was a mixed economy. Every aspect of the US economy is completely under regulation and Federal control. The number of Federal regulations has doubled since 1975. There are now over 170,000 pages of Federal regulations in total, governing every aspect of ... well, everything. Obama's Administration alone added over 11,000 new regulations in just his first two years in office. America is the ultimate regulation state (aka the opposite of a low regulation free market). America is heavily taxed, and has a total government system that eats 40% of the economy, and at $6.4 trillion is larger than the economy of Japan. Those facts alone disqualify the US as being Capitalistic. It's quite easy to demonstrate that America is in fact not Capitalistic any longer. A very short historical comparison of the economic structures (spending, taxes, welfare, regulations, etc) of the US economy in, say, 1820, 1890, 1910, 1930, 1975, 2013 - more than demonstrates the progression from highly unregulated Capitalism toward Socialism. Capitalism requires an unregulated free market based economy. America is almost as far away from that as you can get before becoming a full blown Socialist nation. Even worse, America's variation of Socialism is going to be Fascism, and is rapidly trending that direction.
    - davorak 13y ago
      > 3/4 of the massive Federal budget goes to social welfare programs Is there anywhere that this is broken down by program, it is not obvious from looking at the wikipedia simple pie graph that this is the case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... >Capitalism requires an unregulated free market based economy. It is not clear what you mean here. Adam Smith seems to have been a proponent for the government paying for some public goods and regulation > It was the role of the government to provide goods "of such a nature that the profit could never repay the expense to any individual" > provide public goods such as infrastructure, provide national defense and regulate banking. ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith Which agrees with what I have read and been told elsewhere through the years.
- amerika 13y ago
  All civilizations must collapse eventually. Rome, Russia, Greece, and now us.
gfodor 13y ago
What the fuck? How is this real?
- tootie 13y ago
  Reported by Daily Caller? It's quite possibly not real. Their social media team must be aces to get Tucker Carlson this much cred on HN and Reddit.
  - hga 13y ago
    Blind prejudice against a news source when they link to a primary source (http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-making-terroristic-threat-after-online-joke-212931111.html http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-...) as well as name names that can be trivially searched for with zillions of hits (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=Justin+Carter+threat https://www.google.com/search?q=Justin+Carter+threat) is not constructive.
  - xtrumanx 13y ago
    I googled the term "Justin Carter texas teen jail" and got a whole lot of links from other websites and thumbnail of a youtube video of what looks like a local tv station covering the same story. I haven't looked into it further but if all you had to doubt the story was "Reported by Daily Caller?" I think that should be sufficient.
danbmil99 13y ago
Meh, Canada.
- dromidas 13y ago
  I feel bad for Canada. America is going to poison their society and culture... could you imagine if we somehow turned Canadians en masse from the kind and friendly people that we hear about to, well, Americans? We'd end up going to war within a decade.
  - socillion 13y ago
    Ironically, this story only exists because a Canadian called the US cops and had this kid sent to prison.
xtrumanx 13y ago
> Authorities charged him with making a terrorist threat. If convicted, he will face eight years in prison. So terrorist threats with nothing to back it up is worth 8 years in prison? Does that seem right to anyone else?
- deleted 13y ago
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- deleted 13y ago
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- jrockway 13y ago
  He hasn't been convicted of anything yet. This is the media seeing that someone wants to charge him with making a terrorist threat, and that if he was convicted, there would be no way he could possibly spend more than 8 years in prison.
  - tking8924 13y ago
    Problem is without being convicted, he has already spent 3 months in jail... So not only does it seem an overblown charge, he is being punished for it while still being legally innocent (hasn't been proved guilty).
  - DanBC 13y ago
    He hasn't been convicted; I assume he has clean record so far; he doesn't have materials in his home about wanting to kill children and eat their still beating hearts; but US taxpayer money is spent keeping him in jail until it gets to trial? When I get FU money I'm going to hire designers to make "Never talk without your lawyer" posters and get that message across. I agree that someone making a credible terrorist threat needs some form of punishment and rehabilitation. I don't think the sentence about beating hearts was a credible threat, but I don't have all the information. It is weird to me that most young people are seen as "evil", not "stupid". Often the reaction should be to just tell them not to be stupid and explain the havoc they've caused. We shouldn't be locking them up.
cobrausn 13y ago
This seems pretty unreal. Is there a way to donate to this kid's defense fund? You know, I'm really starting to hate prosecutors with a passion. I used to (a long time ago) buy into the TV crime show narrative of slimy defense lawyers and shining prosecutor-paladins, but the way the system promotes successful convictions over any semblance of actual justice makes these people look like sociopaths.
- bumbledraven 13y ago
  Radley Balko has written at length about this subject. For example: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/the-power-of-the-prosecut_n_2488653.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/the-power-of-the-pr...
- hluska 13y ago
  I am Canadian and don't understand enough about the US criminal system to comment on this. However, your thoughts mirror some that I've had for a long time, and I'd like to ask some questions and hopefully learn more. Do you think that having elected district attorneys who want to look tough on crime causes this? Or rather, is it a case of actual prosecuting attorneys being graded solely on conviction rate? I've seen some highly dubious prosecutions emerge out of the US over the last few years and, from an outsider's point of view, this is rather terrifying!
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    Having only seen the 'wheel of justice' grind people up from a distance, I'm not really sure, but my intuition is that prosecutors make careers out of getting successful convictions, and they absolve themselves of any responsibility by telling themselves that they are merely advocating for the state. So if they do something wrong, it's really just the state at fault. I'm not saying all prosecutors are horrible people who want to ruin lives indiscriminately, and they serve a valuable purpose, I'm just worried about the feedback loop we created.
    - hluska 13y ago
jrockway 13y ago
“These people are serious. They really want my son to go away to jail for a sarcastic comment that he made ,” said the elder Carter. I wouldn't admit to making that comment. Make them prove that he was sitting in front of the computer when his account made that statement. Did anyone else know the password? Is his computer completely free of malware or unknown backdoors? Could anyone be eavesdropping on the connection to the game server? Is the game server completely secure? For a crime that carries almost a decade in prison, confessing doesn't sound like the right legal strategy to me.
- mratzloff 13y ago
  People hope that if they are honest and in the right that they will be exonerated. Typically, it just means they say something they shouldn't and they are punished for it.
- ianterrell 13y ago
  It probably isn't the optimal strategy. But it's real world, average-case human honesty. One reason among many why fairness in prosecution and sentencing is critical.
- proofofconcept 13y ago
  For a single sentence written in response to a direct insult and immediately labeled as a joke by the guy who wrote it, there is no legal strategy that sounds right to me because this is not something that should require a legal strategy to begin with. This situation is preposterous and criticizing the error in legal tactics made by a minor who had no reason to believe he had done anything wrong is completely missing the forest for the trees. edit: apparently he was 18 at the time, so he wasn't a minor, but I don't feel that makes the situation any less ridiculous
- acdha 13y ago
  That strategy is very risky in the real world: do you really think they're going to say “Oh no, we don't have HD video of him typing in the comment – call the whole thing off!” or simply look at all of the evidence, consider how plausible it is that an attacker chose that moment to closely mimic his style for an entire conversation just to frame him with an in-character comment, and then use the stronger end of the sentencing scale for lying to the court and making a lame attempt to avoid responsibility? They appear to be trying a more realistic strategy: admit making the statement, show remorse but reject the premise that this was anything other than constitutionally protected speed or that it constituted a realistic threat. That seems far more likely to work, particularly given the age of the suspect.
joyeuse6701 13y ago
I can't believe he was arrested and jailed for this. On one hand yes in context it is a ridiculous statement and no one should have spent more than a minute thinking about it. Yeah, the Newtown Massacre was heinous so I can understand that 'can't be too careful' mentality but c'mon, just get him mentally evaluated if you're spooked. Terrorist charges? This gov't, our culture, is getting unbearable.
seanschade 13y ago
Absolutely ridiculous ruining this poor kid's life over stupid comments!
meritt 13y ago
Just to clarify: He made the comment on Facebook not within a League of Legends game. This doesn't change the ridiculousness of the situation but it does explain things a bit more: Vastly wider audience, public profile, easy access to personal information, etc.
- atondwal 13y ago
  >He made the comment on Facebook not within a League of Legends game. And here I thought we had a deterministic algorithm for putting LoL player behind bars...
- cunac 13y ago
  thanks, I was so puzzled how she found address of LOL account knowing that Riot doesn't have that information
- Shivetya 13y ago
  Blizzard will report you for making direct threats to the appropriate authorities. The question that people have to ask is, do they get in more trouble by not reporting or by reporting. After all they have deep pockets which makes them a target. Our litigious society at times condemns us far too often
  - justin 13y ago
    Blizzard doesn't make League of Legends
    - vxNsr 13y ago
      But they do make MMOGs with chat functionality. Which all that he's implying.
whiddershins 13y ago
See, to me this is much more serious than the NSA collecting metadata. People are being jailed for speech.
- ajross 13y ago
  One person in a nation of 300 million was jailed for speech. And it was notable enough to drive a very sympathetic story in a comparatively high traffic (if cheesy) news outlet. That doesn't make it acceptable, but it's hardly the kind of systematic suppression of free expression you seem to be invoking. Context is important.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    >One person in a nation of 300 million was jailed for speech. More accurately, this article is about one person in a nation of 300 million who was jailed for speech, which gives us no grounds for assuming that either a large or small number of people are being prosecuted for things like this, other than the number is greater than one. It's a systematic problem that portions of the system feel free to jail for pretty innocuous speech. How about Cameron D'Ambrosio last month, or the unknown number that were not "notable enough"? D'Ambrosio only got out of jail because the grand jury refused to indict, not because prosecutors weren't willing to prosecute.
  - speeder 13y ago
    This article talks about one person, there is others... Beside whistleblowers, there is also that dude that defended Al Quaeda (he only spoke in favour of Al Quaeda), and some others I don't particularly remember now...
  - Homunculiheaded 13y ago
    There's also this first act from the "Right to Remain Silent" from This American Life [0] and this story [1] that pmorici posted. So that's 3 now without actually looking hard at all. 0. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/t... 1. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-terror-rap/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-ter...
hluska 13y ago
I'm not sure how I feel about this case. On one hand, Carter made a horrible threat about shooting up a school. Whether he followed his comments with 'lol' and 'jk' or not, he still made a really ugly, juvenile threat. Whether he follows the news or not, he still had to have some inkling that what he said was going to get him in a whole lot of trouble. I mean, he was 18 years old when he said that... On the other hand, he celebrated his 19th birthday behind bars and it seems like such an unbelievable waste to lock up people that young. The penal system isn't exactly famous for rehabilitation, rather, many people come out of prison far worse (and more screwed up) than they were when they went inside. All I can hope is that he is offered a plea bargain that calls for severe amounts of therapy, community service and probation.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  If you think an 18 year old needs therapy, community service, and probation for a poor-taste sarcastic comment (the kind of thing teenagers do all the time), you are actually a horrible person. EDIT: Sorry for the personal insult. This really bothers me. I said a lot of stupid shit when I was young (still do, actually), and I couldn't imagine being prosecuted for it.
  - hluska 13y ago
    I'm sorry to have offended you, but seriously, he was 18 years old when he made that comment. I said some incredibly stupid things when I was 18, but nothing quite of that magnitude. I mean, shooting up a school and eating their still beating hearts?? At minimum, the young man could use some anger management training. I think that probation beats the heck out of jail time. And, I'd argue that community service is good for just about any teenager (even those who haven't been convicted of anything).
    - cobrausn 13y ago
      Have you ever been to 4chan? Is the real problem here that he made a stupid remark on facebook instead of anonymously in the depths of the internet? He was obviously trying to make a joke about how 'insane' he is, and came up with some prose to try and show it. His reference for 'insane' was a school shooter cannibal. I don't really understand how any of this could be construed as anything other than just poor taste humor.
deleted 13y ago
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adaml_623 13y ago
I'm not sure if this story is true but it leads me to a question: Should any parent let their child use any IT system that creates a permanent record that they are not in charge of. I would be far happier with a child writing a blog that their friends can access rather than ever posting to Facebook. Have logging turned off on comments entered using your child's account and you have plausible deniability. I suppose the problem is telling them that are not allowed to comment on their friends Facebook posts. It'll be interesting to see what we have in 15 years time?
- Zikes 13y ago
  You can't monitor children 24/7, especially not teenagers, and cutting them off from the internet in this day and age would only stunt them socially and intellectually. I count myself very lucky that as a teenager I was allowed to have my own computer and internet connection. For all the valid worries about what trouble I might have gotten myself into, I instead grew up to be the most successful member of my family with a career in IT. We can't let fears of isolated incidents like these drive all of our decisions, or we'll just end up with the parental equivalent of the TSA.
- acdha 13y ago
  > Should any parent let their child use any IT system that creates a permanent record that they are not in charge of. This is the same as thinking that not telling your children about sex or alcohol will keep them from experimenting. It's much better to have a respectful, grownup conversation where you explain the risks and how to reduce them.
  - megablast 13y ago
    In the article, the dad points out how his son was not the sort to read newspapers, or watch the news. I am not sure why the Dad thought it wasn't important for his son to do these sort of things.
    - rdouble 13y ago
      It's kinda more disturbing if the kid came up with the mass killing joke in complete isolation.
ppereira 13y ago
To be convicted of most crimes, the criminal must be found to have had a particular mental state (mens rea), such as a specific intent that the words be taken as a threat. By including "lol jk" along with the threat, I can guess what the teen's mental state actually was.
agrona 13y ago
IANAL, but as I understand it, in order for the courts to consider this a "true threat", the government must prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that the it was intended to be taken seriously (the subjective test), or a reasonable person familiar with the context would interpret it as a serious threat (the objective test). Here's a case of almost the same thing happening in CA, from December of 2012: http://www.popehat.com/2012/12/18/the-true-threat-doctrine-in-action-da-declines-to-charge-californian-for-facebook-comments-about-school-shooting/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/12/18/the-true-threat-doctrine-i...
clarkmoody 13y ago
Compare this with the treatment of Paula Deen by her sponsors, who are dropping her products left and right, because of her speech years ago. She is being labeled a racist, and of course nobody wants to be associated with a racist, do they? In this case, the video gamer is being labeled a terrorist because of his speech. It's almost a preemptive charge. Better to charge and try him for terrorist threats now than have him actually harm anyone sometime down the line. Of course there is a vast difference between corporations' political correctness and the criminal justice system, but both instances show the importance and interpretation of speech.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  Scott Adams (Dilbert fame) actually had a few interesting things to say about it. http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/the_paula_deen_context/ http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/the_paula_deen_context/
- ethomson 13y ago
  I don't really understand how you're connecting these dots, so I suspect that I'm getting trolled here, but your comparison makes no sense. Paula Deen spouting racist nonsense does not show anything about "interpretation of speech" unless she claims that her racist nonsense was somehow misinterpreted. Was she being sarcastic with her slave-themed event? Seems shockingly implausible (and she certainly hasn't suggested as much.) But you're correct, there is a vast difference between corporations showing her the door (though while you call it "political correctness" I would call it "the free market rejecting some old racist speech") and this kid who very likely didn't mean what he said literally.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Well racist thoughtcrime is still "only speech", just like violent thoughtcrime is "only speech", no matter how you interpret it. What you can say about Deen vs. this gamer is that a business is free to do what they want, but the government must respect the First Amendment. But at the same time making threats against others has also been considered wrong to do. I personally wouldn't actually press charges against this guy (despite the spattering of school shootings recently) but I also wouldn't fault the state for taking a very close look at whether he was serious or not.
workbench 13y ago
So glad I grew up in the early days of the internet. Could easily see myself making a comment like that as a joke (almost certain I did many times).
- dromidas 13y ago
  No doubt. I would have been cloned just so they had enough bodies to put in gitmo, prison, and whatever the NSA torture dungeon that has yet to be leaked is called. When I was young I had no idea that bitches in Canada be crazy and can actually send you to jail for talking shit.
pmorici 13y ago
This is at least the second case that I'm aware of this happening in recent months. There was another one [0] earlier this month about a kid in MA that is in jail for essentially the same thing. [0] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-terror-rap/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-ter...
leot 13y ago
The concept of "terrorism" has horrible semantics and needs to be excised from all laws. Its legal existence leads to absurd abuses and behaviors, and utterly confused policy.
biot 13y ago
Law enforcement is clearly not familiar with Poe's law.
- astrodust 13y ago
  They are. Breaking Poe's law, like breaking the law of thermodynamics, is a criminal offense.
Arnor 13y ago
This is an interesting case that points to a hole in our society. We have this freedom of speech that is really important. People shouldn't be prosecuted for speaking in poor taste. The statement was wrong but not criminal. The fact that it wasn't criminal doesn't mean it should be ignored. Anyone who makes a comment like that has a problem. It might not be a mental illness, but it is a problem. Healthy, well-adjusted people just don't say things like that. It's not a crime to be unhealthy or poorly adjusted so we need another means of dealing with that problem. There was reasonable suspicion to investigate Carter, but barring hard evidence of intent to follow through, he should be freed. Personally (not politically), I think community service would be appropriate for these comments, but that's a slippery slope that should not be legally imposed.
- amirmc 13y ago
  > "Healthy, well-adjusted people just don't say things like that." Says who? Just because one person's sense of humour is perhaps less-palatable to someone else doesn't make that person 'unhealthy' or 'maladjusted'.
  - thisisdallas 13y ago
    Exactly. Spend an hour on xbox live and I guarantee you will hear things worse than what that kid said. My gosh, watch some R rated movies and I guarantee you will see things much worse than what that kid said.
    - Arnor 13y ago
      Are you implying that no one on xbox live is maladjusted?
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        If you are defining "maladjusted" as "people who say things on occasion that I find shocking"....
      - thisisdallas 13y ago
sageikosa 13y ago
> In light of recent situations, statements such as the one Justin made are taken seriously,” said an Austin police detective in a statement. In that vein, I wish someone would take the threat of becoming a police state seriously.
thisisdallas 13y ago
As cliché as it sounds, does this mean the terrorist have actually won? Isn't the point of terrorism to produce a crippling climate of fear within a certain society?
bdcravens 13y ago
Something to keep in mind is that the crime of "terroristic threat" has been around far longer than the current "war on terror". (speaking of Texas here) As early as 1994 I know of someone who was arrested for it (for saying they were going to hurt someone). Whether or not this is a reasonable thing to be arrested for, the fact that it's online is irrelevant. If the social standards or laws need to be changed, let's do that. Let's not, however, act as if those standards should apply differently online. (or on the phone, or in our car, etc...)
ISL 13y ago
High gain amplifiers and feedback loops can lead to unintended consequences. Want to reduce school shootings to zero? This is what can happen.
marknutter 13y ago
This story is especially concerning in light of the NSA revelations of late. Suppose this kid actually made this admittedly terrible joke over email. Suppose the recipient of the email was another kid in a foreign country; entirely plausible considering League of Legends is popular worldwide. The NSA could technically catch this email with their dragnet based on keyword search algorithms and pay him a visit, throwing him in jail as a suspected terrorist without a fair trial as the state of Texas has done. Think back to all the stuff you've joked about as a kid and tell me this scenario doesn't enrage and terrify you.
- rayiner 13y ago
  The NSA would have to get a federal court to throw you in jail, and there is no federal court in the country that wouldn't dismiss this case on First Amendment grounds. Texas courts? Sure. You have to remember that a substantial portion of the 1960's and 1970's were spent reigning in the absolutely batshit things state and local courts and governments do. Its always been bad at that level.
dmead 13y ago
no way some random uninformed lady sees this comment in game, or on a live stream and just happens to know how to track the kid down. more likely he got trolled really badly by some kiddies who have royally fucked him over.
njharman 13y ago
> evaluate all potential threats seriously They didn't evaluate it at all. They blindly, knee-jerk reacted. And / or someone wants to appear tough and that they are doing "something" for election or promotion.
planetjones 13y ago
I agree with everything written here about how ridiculous this is. However, the dad is hardly helping matters by saying his son isn't aware of current affairs. His son clearly didn't make the schools reference randomly - he clearly had an awareness of what had happened at several schools in the US. Also publicly posting this on Facebook is idiotic.
shadowfox 13y ago
Wow. Putting him in jail is like swatting a fly with Mjölnir. I often wonder what is the right reaction to such a "threat". Is it to ignore the topic until it is carried out (and thus becomes a real crime; someone carrying out something like that is probably a rare thing, despite the FB posts of various previous school shooters)? Will the public tolerate the perceived inaction? Is there something useful that can be done?
- wiggin315 13y ago
  > Mjölnir I see what you did there...
jdeibele 13y ago
So why is a woman from Canada looking at this kid's facebook page?
- mpyne 13y ago
  Why not? Information wants to be free, the URL wasn't blocked by technical measures, obviously he meant the information to be public, blah blah blah just like we say when our hackers find unprotected data on the Internet. :P
  - drdaeman 13y ago
    Yeah, but still, it's somehow interesting how she wandered there. For example, if she was just hopping over hyperlinks on Facebook, it's a bit interesting how distant the kid was from her in a social graph.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Because when being offended is your hobby, sometimes you deplete all the material around you and need to take to the internet to find some more.
loopdoend 13y ago
There is a petition you can sign here: https://www.change.org/petitions/release-justin-carter-and-change-the-investigative-criteria-for-terroristic-threat-laws https://www.change.org/petitions/release-justin-carter-and-c... "Release Justin Carter from jail. Too many teenagers are being arrested, jailed and having their lives forever altered because of anti-terrorism laws and investigations that impede their 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech."
downandout 13y ago
Because our laws are so broad, most people in the US commit multiple felonies each year. That is not an exaggeration. That being the case, prosecutorial discretion - the exclusive right of the prosecutor to decide whether or not a given prosecution serves the public interest - is incredibly important. The elected District Attorney in this and any other jurisdiction where prosecutorial discretion is not being properly exercised needs to be removed from office, and any abusive deputy district attorneys must be fired. This is the only way to ensure some semblance of reason and sanity in our "justice" system, since removing the laws that make everyone into felons simply will not occur.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Maybe it's time to stop electing district attorneys. I personally think it's a terrible system.
- JacksonGariety 13y ago
  > multiple felonies each year year -> day
sapplegate3 13y ago
God, I hate people
- miahi 13y ago
  Do you hate them in school-sized groups? Edit: forgot to add the lol jk
  - JacksonGariety 13y ago
    Made me "lol". jk
Nux 13y ago
This must be a new low for USA. Unbelievable. Those founding fathers must be twisting in their grave. Yeah, what the kid said was in bad taste, but for crying out loud ...
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Unlikely, since this isn't a federal case.
FollowSteph3 13y ago
What if he do it after? Who would be on the chomping block then? How many of the same people here would be going after the same authorities for not having stopped him beforehand when he made the threat...
- darkarmani 13y ago
  > What if he do it after? Did which part? The eating of still beating human hearts, or the part about laughing out loud? The choices aren't: do absolutely nothing or lock him up for 8 years. > How many of the same people here would be going after the same authorities for not having stopped him beforehand when he made the threat Do you mean if the authorities had done absolutely nothing, or if the authorities had followed up on the lead and done a full investigation on his capabilities? Those are very different scenarios.
mdlthree 13y ago
I want to bring up the fact that there is a town in Texas called Canadian [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas], and that is probably where a woman reported the guy. Also a county in Oklahoma, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_County,_Oklahoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_County,_Oklahoma]. This story has nothing to do with Canada the country.
noonespecial 13y ago
Word-crime. It's real.

181 points by jamesbritt 13y ago

When "threats" like this get you in jail, it is time to admit we are in the USSR and not elsewhere. Read Soljenitsin; you have this for real. Not just a novel like 1984, the very real thing, like being afraid of making a joke, of criticizing nr. 1.

jsonne 13y ago
This is complete hyperbole and you know it. Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Fraudulent elections? A one party state? The fact that you made this comment on a public forum is evidence enough that we are nowhere even close to living in a police state.
- pfortuny 13y ago
  Yes, this is hyperbole, like the poor kid's. And just because you had to answer it and reflect a little on it, it has served its purpose. Exactly. So: we are not exactly there but do you not see the writing on the wall? Being afraid of making a joke is hideous. And being afraid because of the police is, honestly, horrendous. EDIT: did I say anything wrong? Enjoy the downvotes.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    >did I say anything wrong? Yes you did. You're basically pulling the puppetmaster defense of 'I said something incorrect but you reacted so I win'. People tend not to like that argument.
- Alex3917 13y ago
  "Where are the secret police whisking away 'dissenters' in the middle of the night?" You mean like the 40-50,000 swat team raids against non-violent political dissenters that the US government carries out each year, almost always in the middle of the night?
  - pfortuny 13y ago
    Even more: you can get phone-swatted, is it really believable?
    - downandout 13y ago
      That is an interesting thought. At any moment, an officer that can't get a search warrant could anonymously call 911 from a burner cell or pay phone and report a violent situation. That alone is enough for a full-scale paramilitary invasion of the target's home or office.
      - anaptdemise 13y ago
        Doesn't even have to be violent. Just as easy to roll an informant to claim drugs dealings at a residence. Drugs seem to be easiest way to get a no-knock raid, even if your mayor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor's_residence_drug_raid http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayo...
  - thetrb 13y ago
    So more than 100 a day? Where do you have that number from?
    - Alex3917 13y ago
      http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-p...
      - 13y ago
- will_brown 13y ago
  I honestly can not tell if you are being sarcastic or not... >Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Think IRS targeting; think of the secret targeted kill lists (not only can you not know who is on it, you can not know the criteria to get on it). >Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Check the farms where you will find field hands who are likely undocumented immigrants. Or check the slums, no need to physically relocate anyone when you can economically relocate them. >Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Thank goodness there is no argument here. However, we do have indefinite detentions and targeted kill lists without due process/judicial review. Maybe not mass executions, but one targeted killing by the government is to much for my tastes. >Fraudulent elections? Um...2000 Bush v. Gore? Florida? Certainly no known fraud, but an election decided by a single state and a few hundred votes, where thousands went missing for a period of time, not to mention the "faulty ballots" in Florida. I would say this is more like MLB during the steroid era, sure the new records still stand, but there is a asterisk next to the names. >A one party state? You have a choice between red or blue, either way you get budget deficits, a surveillance state, Gitmo, war of terror(opps *on), ect...
  - lukifer 13y ago
    Read up on Greg Palast's investigation of voting machines. There's substantial evidence of vote tampering in 2000 and 2004.
    - specialist 13y ago
      VoterAction.org proved in court that Kerry won New Mexico in 2004, even though its electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Just the tip of the iceberg.
    - adventured 13y ago
      And the regular, massive voter fraud throughout major Democrat strongholds like Philadelphia. There's little question BOTH parties are engaging in routine election fraud.
      - 13y ago
- StandardFuture 13y ago
  You are referring to things such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor ...but we are not talking in terms of building a model showing the equivalence in replica between each state's government and actions (actually Stalin was a very 'unique' dictator, the same as Hitler, in relation to ANY other leader). We are talking in terms of ideology behind a governments actions e.g. a complete disrespect for individual freedoms granted by the constitution. Tha kid was placed in jail for uttering a joke. Come on.
- downandout 13y ago
  The US incarceration rate is higher than Russia's during the height of the KGB. That's right: while the political goals and tactics are different and somehow palatable to a pliable US population, the net results of our current system are actually worse than those of most oppressive regimes in the history of the world. What's worse is that there is no end in sight. The NSA scandal has shown the the people who make it into elected office these days are all about the same. US elections are nothing more than political theater designed to delude the population into thinking that it can make choices, when in fact the end result will be the same regardless of whom they choose. Who needs rigged elections in this environment?
- taylodl 13y ago
  Don't need secret police when the kids are whisked off to jail in broad daylight, out in the open. Secret police are only required when one wants to hide such grievous acts. Quite the opposite is the case now - our leaders our proud they're Fighting Terrorists.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  You must be living in some sort of alternate reality dreamstate where these things don't happen routinely. Allow me to attempt to wake you up: Eternal NSA surveillance. The TSA. No-fly lists. Secret prisons. Guantanamo Bay. Election rigging. Being targeted by IRS. The percentage of population that is in prison (much higher than USSR at the height of its power). I could go on. Out of everything you stated, the only thing we don't have is mass executions of political prisoners. But the fact is, the differences between the USA and USSR are only on a matter of scale. And that scale is growing at an alarming rate.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    Where are the secret prisons, anyway?
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      Almost all of them are overseas, outside of US territory and jurisdiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_site...
    - bussierem 13y ago
      Also, why are they still considered "secret" if random people on HN are discussing them candidly?
      - alanh 13y ago
        Because their locations are or were undisclosed, and obviously not even everyone here has heard of them. They exist. Edited in reply They are explicitly said to exist in Hollywood propaganda film Zero Dark Thirty (2013). No, this is not proof, although it is evidence. If the establishment wants us to believe they exist, is that not troubling enough?
        Arnor 13y ago
        FYI hollywood propaganda films aren't usually the best citations... EDIT: spelling counts...
rayiner 13y ago
When "threats" like this get you in jail, it's time to admit the speaker is in small-town Texas (New Braunfels, TX, population 57,000, 30 miles outside of San Antonio and surrounded by nothing: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=E+Ashby+Pl&daddr=S+Walnut+Ave&hl=en&ll=29.699982,-98.091431&spn=0.22456,0.308647&sll=29.702368,-98.12439&sspn=1.79637,2.469177&geocode=FbJbwQEd8SYh-g%3BFVEhxQEdFZAm-g&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=9&t=m&z=12 https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=E+Ashby+Pl&daddr=S+Walnut...).
- namlem 13y ago
  How is that an excuse? Not to mention, 57,000 is not that small of a town.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Small towns do stupid things the world over. It's like a universal constant. And for better or worse, in the U.S. there is relatively little high-level supervision of how small towns police themselves. Holding this kid for what he said is clearly unconstitutional. I think every federal court in the country would hold likewise. But a police department in a small town where residents are scared to death of another Columbine or Sandy Hook? They don't care about the first amendment, and they never have. Small towns have never been a place where you could just say whatever you wanted. They've never had that mentality. It's just much more visible now that everything is on the internet.
    - pfortuny 13y ago
      And then again: who will pay for damages? You can bet: 1) nobody 2) nobody but the parents 3) nobody but the kid, who will have to go to jail for being insolvent 4) more nobody Of course he MAY get an apology from the Government. Or, come to think of it, he may not...
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        Of course he MAY get an apology from the Government Which government?
StandardFuture 13y ago
It's worse. We are in an USSR running on capitalism. Which means a much wealthier and more efficient USSR.
- adventured 13y ago
  America isn't a Capitalist nation and hasn't been for decades. America is between a mixed economy and Socialism, with the world's largest welfare system, and 'social safety net.' 3/4 of the massive Federal budget goes to social welfare programs. From 1930 to perhaps the early 1980s, the US was a mixed economy. Every aspect of the US economy is completely under regulation and Federal control. The number of Federal regulations has doubled since 1975. There are now over 170,000 pages of Federal regulations in total, governing every aspect of ... well, everything. Obama's Administration alone added over 11,000 new regulations in just his first two years in office. America is the ultimate regulation state (aka the opposite of a low regulation free market). America is heavily taxed, and has a total government system that eats 40% of the economy, and at $6.4 trillion is larger than the economy of Japan. Those facts alone disqualify the US as being Capitalistic. It's quite easy to demonstrate that America is in fact not Capitalistic any longer. A very short historical comparison of the economic structures (spending, taxes, welfare, regulations, etc) of the US economy in, say, 1820, 1890, 1910, 1930, 1975, 2013 - more than demonstrates the progression from highly unregulated Capitalism toward Socialism. Capitalism requires an unregulated free market based economy. America is almost as far away from that as you can get before becoming a full blown Socialist nation. Even worse, America's variation of Socialism is going to be Fascism, and is rapidly trending that direction.
  - davorak 13y ago
    > 3/4 of the massive Federal budget goes to social welfare programs Is there anywhere that this is broken down by program, it is not obvious from looking at the wikipedia simple pie graph that this is the case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... >Capitalism requires an unregulated free market based economy. It is not clear what you mean here. Adam Smith seems to have been a proponent for the government paying for some public goods and regulation > It was the role of the government to provide goods "of such a nature that the profit could never repay the expense to any individual" > provide public goods such as infrastructure, provide national defense and regulate banking. ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith Which agrees with what I have read and been told elsewhere through the years.
amerika 13y ago
All civilizations must collapse eventually. Rome, Russia, Greece, and now us.

gfodor 13y ago

What the fuck? How is this real?

tootie 13y ago
Reported by Daily Caller? It's quite possibly not real. Their social media team must be aces to get Tucker Carlson this much cred on HN and Reddit.
- hga 13y ago
  Blind prejudice against a news source when they link to a primary source (http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-making-terroristic-threat-after-online-joke-212931111.html http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-...) as well as name names that can be trivially searched for with zillions of hits (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=Justin+Carter+threat https://www.google.com/search?q=Justin+Carter+threat) is not constructive.
- xtrumanx 13y ago
  I googled the term "Justin Carter texas teen jail" and got a whole lot of links from other websites and thumbnail of a youtube video of what looks like a local tv station covering the same story. I haven't looked into it further but if all you had to doubt the story was "Reported by Daily Caller?" I think that should be sufficient.

danbmil99 13y ago

Meh, Canada.

dromidas 13y ago
I feel bad for Canada. America is going to poison their society and culture... could you imagine if we somehow turned Canadians en masse from the kind and friendly people that we hear about to, well, Americans? We'd end up going to war within a decade.
- socillion 13y ago
  Ironically, this story only exists because a Canadian called the US cops and had this kid sent to prison.

xtrumanx 13y ago

> Authorities charged him with making a terrorist threat. If convicted, he will face eight years in prison. So terrorist threats with nothing to back it up is worth 8 years in prison? Does that seem right to anyone else?

deleted 13y ago
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jrockway 13y ago
He hasn't been convicted of anything yet. This is the media seeing that someone wants to charge him with making a terrorist threat, and that if he was convicted, there would be no way he could possibly spend more than 8 years in prison.
- tking8924 13y ago
  Problem is without being convicted, he has already spent 3 months in jail... So not only does it seem an overblown charge, he is being punished for it while still being legally innocent (hasn't been proved guilty).
- DanBC 13y ago
  He hasn't been convicted; I assume he has clean record so far; he doesn't have materials in his home about wanting to kill children and eat their still beating hearts; but US taxpayer money is spent keeping him in jail until it gets to trial? When I get FU money I'm going to hire designers to make "Never talk without your lawyer" posters and get that message across. I agree that someone making a credible terrorist threat needs some form of punishment and rehabilitation. I don't think the sentence about beating hearts was a credible threat, but I don't have all the information. It is weird to me that most young people are seen as "evil", not "stupid". Often the reaction should be to just tell them not to be stupid and explain the havoc they've caused. We shouldn't be locking them up.

cobrausn 13y ago

This seems pretty unreal. Is there a way to donate to this kid's defense fund? You know, I'm really starting to hate prosecutors with a passion. I used to (a long time ago) buy into the TV crime show narrative of slimy defense lawyers and shining prosecutor-paladins, but the way the system promotes successful convictions over any semblance of actual justice makes these people look like sociopaths.

bumbledraven 13y ago
Radley Balko has written at length about this subject. For example: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/the-power-of-the-prosecut_n_2488653.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/the-power-of-the-pr...
hluska 13y ago
I am Canadian and don't understand enough about the US criminal system to comment on this. However, your thoughts mirror some that I've had for a long time, and I'd like to ask some questions and hopefully learn more. Do you think that having elected district attorneys who want to look tough on crime causes this? Or rather, is it a case of actual prosecuting attorneys being graded solely on conviction rate? I've seen some highly dubious prosecutions emerge out of the US over the last few years and, from an outsider's point of view, this is rather terrifying!
- cobrausn 13y ago
  Having only seen the 'wheel of justice' grind people up from a distance, I'm not really sure, but my intuition is that prosecutors make careers out of getting successful convictions, and they absolve themselves of any responsibility by telling themselves that they are merely advocating for the state. So if they do something wrong, it's really just the state at fault. I'm not saying all prosecutors are horrible people who want to ruin lives indiscriminately, and they serve a valuable purpose, I'm just worried about the feedback loop we created.
  - hluska 13y ago

jrockway 13y ago

“These people are serious. They really want my son to go away to jail for a sarcastic comment that he made ,” said the elder Carter. I wouldn't admit to making that comment. Make them prove that he was sitting in front of the computer when his account made that statement. Did anyone else know the password? Is his computer completely free of malware or unknown backdoors? Could anyone be eavesdropping on the connection to the game server? Is the game server completely secure? For a crime that carries almost a decade in prison, confessing doesn't sound like the right legal strategy to me.

mratzloff 13y ago
People hope that if they are honest and in the right that they will be exonerated. Typically, it just means they say something they shouldn't and they are punished for it.
ianterrell 13y ago
It probably isn't the optimal strategy. But it's real world, average-case human honesty. One reason among many why fairness in prosecution and sentencing is critical.
proofofconcept 13y ago
For a single sentence written in response to a direct insult and immediately labeled as a joke by the guy who wrote it, there is no legal strategy that sounds right to me because this is not something that should require a legal strategy to begin with. This situation is preposterous and criticizing the error in legal tactics made by a minor who had no reason to believe he had done anything wrong is completely missing the forest for the trees. edit: apparently he was 18 at the time, so he wasn't a minor, but I don't feel that makes the situation any less ridiculous
acdha 13y ago
That strategy is very risky in the real world: do you really think they're going to say “Oh no, we don't have HD video of him typing in the comment – call the whole thing off!” or simply look at all of the evidence, consider how plausible it is that an attacker chose that moment to closely mimic his style for an entire conversation just to frame him with an in-character comment, and then use the stronger end of the sentencing scale for lying to the court and making a lame attempt to avoid responsibility? They appear to be trying a more realistic strategy: admit making the statement, show remorse but reject the premise that this was anything other than constitutionally protected speed or that it constituted a realistic threat. That seems far more likely to work, particularly given the age of the suspect.

joyeuse6701 13y ago

I can't believe he was arrested and jailed for this. On one hand yes in context it is a ridiculous statement and no one should have spent more than a minute thinking about it. Yeah, the Newtown Massacre was heinous so I can understand that 'can't be too careful' mentality but c'mon, just get him mentally evaluated if you're spooked. Terrorist charges? This gov't, our culture, is getting unbearable.

seanschade 13y ago

Absolutely ridiculous ruining this poor kid's life over stupid comments!

meritt 13y ago

Just to clarify: He made the comment on Facebook not within a League of Legends game. This doesn't change the ridiculousness of the situation but it does explain things a bit more: Vastly wider audience, public profile, easy access to personal information, etc.

atondwal 13y ago
>He made the comment on Facebook not within a League of Legends game. And here I thought we had a deterministic algorithm for putting LoL player behind bars...
cunac 13y ago
thanks, I was so puzzled how she found address of LOL account knowing that Riot doesn't have that information
Shivetya 13y ago
Blizzard will report you for making direct threats to the appropriate authorities. The question that people have to ask is, do they get in more trouble by not reporting or by reporting. After all they have deep pockets which makes them a target. Our litigious society at times condemns us far too often
- justin 13y ago
  Blizzard doesn't make League of Legends
  - vxNsr 13y ago
    But they do make MMOGs with chat functionality. Which all that he's implying.

whiddershins 13y ago

See, to me this is much more serious than the NSA collecting metadata. People are being jailed for speech.

ajross 13y ago
One person in a nation of 300 million was jailed for speech. And it was notable enough to drive a very sympathetic story in a comparatively high traffic (if cheesy) news outlet. That doesn't make it acceptable, but it's hardly the kind of systematic suppression of free expression you seem to be invoking. Context is important.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  >One person in a nation of 300 million was jailed for speech. More accurately, this article is about one person in a nation of 300 million who was jailed for speech, which gives us no grounds for assuming that either a large or small number of people are being prosecuted for things like this, other than the number is greater than one. It's a systematic problem that portions of the system feel free to jail for pretty innocuous speech. How about Cameron D'Ambrosio last month, or the unknown number that were not "notable enough"? D'Ambrosio only got out of jail because the grand jury refused to indict, not because prosecutors weren't willing to prosecute.
- speeder 13y ago
  This article talks about one person, there is others... Beside whistleblowers, there is also that dude that defended Al Quaeda (he only spoke in favour of Al Quaeda), and some others I don't particularly remember now...
- Homunculiheaded 13y ago
  There's also this first act from the "Right to Remain Silent" from This American Life [0] and this story [1] that pmorici posted. So that's 3 now without actually looking hard at all. 0. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/t... 1. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-terror-rap/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-ter...

hluska 13y ago

I'm not sure how I feel about this case. On one hand, Carter made a horrible threat about shooting up a school. Whether he followed his comments with 'lol' and 'jk' or not, he still made a really ugly, juvenile threat. Whether he follows the news or not, he still had to have some inkling that what he said was going to get him in a whole lot of trouble. I mean, he was 18 years old when he said that... On the other hand, he celebrated his 19th birthday behind bars and it seems like such an unbelievable waste to lock up people that young. The penal system isn't exactly famous for rehabilitation, rather, many people come out of prison far worse (and more screwed up) than they were when they went inside. All I can hope is that he is offered a plea bargain that calls for severe amounts of therapy, community service and probation.

cobrausn 13y ago
If you think an 18 year old needs therapy, community service, and probation for a poor-taste sarcastic comment (the kind of thing teenagers do all the time), you are actually a horrible person. EDIT: Sorry for the personal insult. This really bothers me. I said a lot of stupid shit when I was young (still do, actually), and I couldn't imagine being prosecuted for it.
- hluska 13y ago
  I'm sorry to have offended you, but seriously, he was 18 years old when he made that comment. I said some incredibly stupid things when I was 18, but nothing quite of that magnitude. I mean, shooting up a school and eating their still beating hearts?? At minimum, the young man could use some anger management training. I think that probation beats the heck out of jail time. And, I'd argue that community service is good for just about any teenager (even those who haven't been convicted of anything).
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    Have you ever been to 4chan? Is the real problem here that he made a stupid remark on facebook instead of anonymously in the depths of the internet? He was obviously trying to make a joke about how 'insane' he is, and came up with some prose to try and show it. His reference for 'insane' was a school shooter cannibal. I don't really understand how any of this could be construed as anything other than just poor taste humor.

deleted 13y ago

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adaml_623 13y ago

I'm not sure if this story is true but it leads me to a question: Should any parent let their child use any IT system that creates a permanent record that they are not in charge of. I would be far happier with a child writing a blog that their friends can access rather than ever posting to Facebook. Have logging turned off on comments entered using your child's account and you have plausible deniability. I suppose the problem is telling them that are not allowed to comment on their friends Facebook posts. It'll be interesting to see what we have in 15 years time?

Zikes 13y ago
You can't monitor children 24/7, especially not teenagers, and cutting them off from the internet in this day and age would only stunt them socially and intellectually. I count myself very lucky that as a teenager I was allowed to have my own computer and internet connection. For all the valid worries about what trouble I might have gotten myself into, I instead grew up to be the most successful member of my family with a career in IT. We can't let fears of isolated incidents like these drive all of our decisions, or we'll just end up with the parental equivalent of the TSA.
acdha 13y ago
> Should any parent let their child use any IT system that creates a permanent record that they are not in charge of. This is the same as thinking that not telling your children about sex or alcohol will keep them from experimenting. It's much better to have a respectful, grownup conversation where you explain the risks and how to reduce them.
- megablast 13y ago
  In the article, the dad points out how his son was not the sort to read newspapers, or watch the news. I am not sure why the Dad thought it wasn't important for his son to do these sort of things.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    It's kinda more disturbing if the kid came up with the mass killing joke in complete isolation.

ppereira 13y ago

To be convicted of most crimes, the criminal must be found to have had a particular mental state (mens rea), such as a specific intent that the words be taken as a threat. By including "lol jk" along with the threat, I can guess what the teen's mental state actually was.

agrona 13y ago

IANAL, but as I understand it, in order for the courts to consider this a "true threat", the government must prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that the it was intended to be taken seriously (the subjective test), or a reasonable person familiar with the context would interpret it as a serious threat (the objective test). Here's a case of almost the same thing happening in CA, from December of 2012: http://www.popehat.com/2012/12/18/the-true-threat-doctrine-in-action-da-declines-to-charge-californian-for-facebook-comments-about-school-shooting/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/12/18/the-true-threat-doctrine-i...

clarkmoody 13y ago

Compare this with the treatment of Paula Deen by her sponsors, who are dropping her products left and right, because of her speech years ago. She is being labeled a racist, and of course nobody wants to be associated with a racist, do they? In this case, the video gamer is being labeled a terrorist because of his speech. It's almost a preemptive charge. Better to charge and try him for terrorist threats now than have him actually harm anyone sometime down the line. Of course there is a vast difference between corporations' political correctness and the criminal justice system, but both instances show the importance and interpretation of speech.

cobrausn 13y ago
Scott Adams (Dilbert fame) actually had a few interesting things to say about it. http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/the_paula_deen_context/ http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/the_paula_deen_context/
ethomson 13y ago
I don't really understand how you're connecting these dots, so I suspect that I'm getting trolled here, but your comparison makes no sense. Paula Deen spouting racist nonsense does not show anything about "interpretation of speech" unless she claims that her racist nonsense was somehow misinterpreted. Was she being sarcastic with her slave-themed event? Seems shockingly implausible (and she certainly hasn't suggested as much.) But you're correct, there is a vast difference between corporations showing her the door (though while you call it "political correctness" I would call it "the free market rejecting some old racist speech") and this kid who very likely didn't mean what he said literally.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Well racist thoughtcrime is still "only speech", just like violent thoughtcrime is "only speech", no matter how you interpret it. What you can say about Deen vs. this gamer is that a business is free to do what they want, but the government must respect the First Amendment. But at the same time making threats against others has also been considered wrong to do. I personally wouldn't actually press charges against this guy (despite the spattering of school shootings recently) but I also wouldn't fault the state for taking a very close look at whether he was serious or not.

workbench 13y ago

So glad I grew up in the early days of the internet. Could easily see myself making a comment like that as a joke (almost certain I did many times).

dromidas 13y ago
No doubt. I would have been cloned just so they had enough bodies to put in gitmo, prison, and whatever the NSA torture dungeon that has yet to be leaked is called. When I was young I had no idea that bitches in Canada be crazy and can actually send you to jail for talking shit.

pmorici 13y ago

This is at least the second case that I'm aware of this happening in recent months. There was another one [0] earlier this month about a kid in MA that is in jail for essentially the same thing. [0] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-terror-rap/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/teen-jailed-for-ter...

leot 13y ago

The concept of "terrorism" has horrible semantics and needs to be excised from all laws. Its legal existence leads to absurd abuses and behaviors, and utterly confused policy.

biot 13y ago

Law enforcement is clearly not familiar with Poe's law.

astrodust 13y ago
They are. Breaking Poe's law, like breaking the law of thermodynamics, is a criminal offense.

Arnor 13y ago

This is an interesting case that points to a hole in our society. We have this freedom of speech that is really important. People shouldn't be prosecuted for speaking in poor taste. The statement was wrong but not criminal. The fact that it wasn't criminal doesn't mean it should be ignored. Anyone who makes a comment like that has a problem. It might not be a mental illness, but it is a problem. Healthy, well-adjusted people just don't say things like that. It's not a crime to be unhealthy or poorly adjusted so we need another means of dealing with that problem. There was reasonable suspicion to investigate Carter, but barring hard evidence of intent to follow through, he should be freed. Personally (not politically), I think community service would be appropriate for these comments, but that's a slippery slope that should not be legally imposed.

amirmc 13y ago
> "Healthy, well-adjusted people just don't say things like that." Says who? Just because one person's sense of humour is perhaps less-palatable to someone else doesn't make that person 'unhealthy' or 'maladjusted'.
- thisisdallas 13y ago
  Exactly. Spend an hour on xbox live and I guarantee you will hear things worse than what that kid said. My gosh, watch some R rated movies and I guarantee you will see things much worse than what that kid said.
  - Arnor 13y ago
    Are you implying that no one on xbox live is maladjusted?
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      If you are defining "maladjusted" as "people who say things on occasion that I find shocking"....
    - thisisdallas 13y ago

sageikosa 13y ago

> In light of recent situations, statements such as the one Justin made are taken seriously,” said an Austin police detective in a statement. In that vein, I wish someone would take the threat of becoming a police state seriously.

thisisdallas 13y ago

As cliché as it sounds, does this mean the terrorist have actually won? Isn't the point of terrorism to produce a crippling climate of fear within a certain society?

bdcravens 13y ago

Something to keep in mind is that the crime of "terroristic threat" has been around far longer than the current "war on terror". (speaking of Texas here) As early as 1994 I know of someone who was arrested for it (for saying they were going to hurt someone). Whether or not this is a reasonable thing to be arrested for, the fact that it's online is irrelevant. If the social standards or laws need to be changed, let's do that. Let's not, however, act as if those standards should apply differently online. (or on the phone, or in our car, etc...)

ISL 13y ago

High gain amplifiers and feedback loops can lead to unintended consequences. Want to reduce school shootings to zero? This is what can happen.

marknutter 13y ago

This story is especially concerning in light of the NSA revelations of late. Suppose this kid actually made this admittedly terrible joke over email. Suppose the recipient of the email was another kid in a foreign country; entirely plausible considering League of Legends is popular worldwide. The NSA could technically catch this email with their dragnet based on keyword search algorithms and pay him a visit, throwing him in jail as a suspected terrorist without a fair trial as the state of Texas has done. Think back to all the stuff you've joked about as a kid and tell me this scenario doesn't enrage and terrify you.

rayiner 13y ago
The NSA would have to get a federal court to throw you in jail, and there is no federal court in the country that wouldn't dismiss this case on First Amendment grounds. Texas courts? Sure. You have to remember that a substantial portion of the 1960's and 1970's were spent reigning in the absolutely batshit things state and local courts and governments do. Its always been bad at that level.

dmead 13y ago

no way some random uninformed lady sees this comment in game, or on a live stream and just happens to know how to track the kid down. more likely he got trolled really badly by some kiddies who have royally fucked him over.

njharman 13y ago

> evaluate all potential threats seriously They didn't evaluate it at all. They blindly, knee-jerk reacted. And / or someone wants to appear tough and that they are doing "something" for election or promotion.

planetjones 13y ago

I agree with everything written here about how ridiculous this is. However, the dad is hardly helping matters by saying his son isn't aware of current affairs. His son clearly didn't make the schools reference randomly - he clearly had an awareness of what had happened at several schools in the US. Also publicly posting this on Facebook is idiotic.

shadowfox 13y ago

Wow. Putting him in jail is like swatting a fly with Mjölnir. I often wonder what is the right reaction to such a "threat". Is it to ignore the topic until it is carried out (and thus becomes a real crime; someone carrying out something like that is probably a rare thing, despite the FB posts of various previous school shooters)? Will the public tolerate the perceived inaction? Is there something useful that can be done?

wiggin315 13y ago
> Mjölnir I see what you did there...

jdeibele 13y ago

So why is a woman from Canada looking at this kid's facebook page?

mpyne 13y ago
Why not? Information wants to be free, the URL wasn't blocked by technical measures, obviously he meant the information to be public, blah blah blah just like we say when our hackers find unprotected data on the Internet. :P
- drdaeman 13y ago
  Yeah, but still, it's somehow interesting how she wandered there. For example, if she was just hopping over hyperlinks on Facebook, it's a bit interesting how distant the kid was from her in a social graph.
jlgreco 13y ago
Because when being offended is your hobby, sometimes you deplete all the material around you and need to take to the internet to find some more.

loopdoend 13y ago

There is a petition you can sign here: https://www.change.org/petitions/release-justin-carter-and-change-the-investigative-criteria-for-terroristic-threat-laws https://www.change.org/petitions/release-justin-carter-and-c... "Release Justin Carter from jail. Too many teenagers are being arrested, jailed and having their lives forever altered because of anti-terrorism laws and investigations that impede their 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech."

downandout 13y ago

Because our laws are so broad, most people in the US commit multiple felonies each year. That is not an exaggeration. That being the case, prosecutorial discretion - the exclusive right of the prosecutor to decide whether or not a given prosecution serves the public interest - is incredibly important. The elected District Attorney in this and any other jurisdiction where prosecutorial discretion is not being properly exercised needs to be removed from office, and any abusive deputy district attorneys must be fired. This is the only way to ensure some semblance of reason and sanity in our "justice" system, since removing the laws that make everyone into felons simply will not occur.

anigbrowl 13y ago
Maybe it's time to stop electing district attorneys. I personally think it's a terrible system.
JacksonGariety 13y ago
> multiple felonies each year year -> day

sapplegate3 13y ago

God, I hate people

miahi 13y ago
Do you hate them in school-sized groups? Edit: forgot to add the lol jk
- JacksonGariety 13y ago
  Made me "lol". jk

Nux 13y ago

This must be a new low for USA. Unbelievable. Those founding fathers must be twisting in their grave. Yeah, what the kid said was in bad taste, but for crying out loud ...

anigbrowl 13y ago
Unlikely, since this isn't a federal case.

FollowSteph3 13y ago

What if he do it after? Who would be on the chomping block then? How many of the same people here would be going after the same authorities for not having stopped him beforehand when he made the threat...

darkarmani 13y ago
> What if he do it after? Did which part? The eating of still beating human hearts, or the part about laughing out loud? The choices aren't: do absolutely nothing or lock him up for 8 years. > How many of the same people here would be going after the same authorities for not having stopped him beforehand when he made the threat Do you mean if the authorities had done absolutely nothing, or if the authorities had followed up on the lead and done a full investigation on his capabilities? Those are very different scenarios.

mdlthree 13y ago

I want to bring up the fact that there is a town in Texas called Canadian [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas], and that is probably where a woman reported the guy. Also a county in Oklahoma, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_County,_Oklahoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_County,_Oklahoma]. This story has nothing to do with Canada the country.

noonespecial 13y ago

Word-crime. It's real.