14 ms·

Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

• fiatmoney 13y ago
  Does anyone have an ungated copy of the paper?
  • Scaevolus 13y ago
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/136988470/Causal-Entropic-Forces?secret_password=1c26hj5qa1uywzyygp03 http://www.scribd.com/doc/136988470/Causal-Entropic-Forces?s...
  • alexwg 13y ago
    Yes: http://www.alexwg.org/publications/PhysRevLett_110-168702.pdf http://www.alexwg.org/publications/PhysRevLett_110-168702.pd...
• conroe64 13y ago
  http://www.entropica.com/ http://www.entropica.com/ has a very nice, short, video demonstrating the AI.
  • alexvr 13y ago
    Thanks!
  • pitchups 13y ago
    Completely blown away after watching that video by the sheer range of tasks this AI can accomplish on its own. Learning to walk, balance a stick, using tools, co-operating, playing pong, and...even buying stocks low and selling high! And all of this without being programmed or given a goal to do so. If true this could be a huge breakthrough indeed. Would really like to learn more about the core technology and will be following this more closely.
    • Matti 13y ago
      Where do you see it learning to walk? You can't equate the inverted pendulum problem with upright walking. It is neat if it can choose it's own reference level ("goal") for a classical control problem -- but that's a long way from "learning to walk".
      • pitchups 13y ago
        Granted that their model for upright walking is very basic. But if their basic premise is sound and valid and taking their claims at face value, it could potentially explain how more complex behaviors like walking may emerge from the simpler examples in their demo.
    • jk4930 13y ago
      I'm far from being blown away. Researchers in AI have demonstrated AI systems with a "blank mind" that can learn by interacting with its environment given some reinforcement learning. They often operate in simple toy examples, but once confronted with the real, complex, messy reality, they fail. I found mostly two reasons: Either their mechanism is too simple and can't solve other than simple problems or it's (computationally) too complex and doesn't scale. So I'm not saying this approach is bad, but we have yet to see whether it does more than simple examples.
      • pitchups 13y ago
        From what I can gather the difference here seems to be the claim that a simpler, more fundamental principle may explain the motivation behind all intelligent behavior. A tall claim no doubt - so I agree that it needs to be validated with more complex examples.
• IsaacL 13y ago
  Very interesting. The big idea, as I see it, is that intelligent systems try to maintain as many possible futures as they can - to keep their options open. People often think that all living beings are driven by the need to reproduce, but the need to survive - to maintain homeostasis, to keep one's shape in a complex environment - is even more fundamental, I think. If you extend the idea of living beings attempting to keep their own metabolism and structure fixed, you realise that if they have the capability, they'll also try and keep their environment fixed.
  • pjscott 13y ago
    The need to reproduce is more fundamental, and there are plenty of examples in nature of animals sacrificing homeostasis in order to reproduce -- male black widow spiders, for example. It's obvious why this would be the case; that's how evolution works. Keeping your future options open is a nice heuristic, but it's not necessarily an end goal.
    • snowwrestler 13y ago
      Reproducing captures more future states than not reproducing, since it allows some of your collected information to extend past your death.
      • Houshalter 13y ago
        You can explain almost any process with this theory, and that's why it's useless. Trying to "capture more future states" is not the reason certain traits evolve, they evolve simply because they are more likely to survive and reproduce.
        • snowwrestler 13y ago
          Why any living thing reproduces at all is a much more fundamental question than e.g. why men have nipples or snakes don't have legs.
• technotony 13y ago
  This is fascinating. It proposes that intelligence is about maximizing the control we have over future events, ie maximize the entropy of the system. Intuitively this aligns well with how I think about many strategic options or inflections in life/business - you try to take the path which maximizes future options. Lots of interesting applications, will be interested to see how well they manage to communicate this work across different disciplines.
  • guylhem 13y ago
    It is also seems compatible with some experimental parts of economy, such as the study of soldiers of different countries trading MRE which suggest there is a value in diversity, not just taste or quantity. If there wasn't, why would say french soldiers be exchanging their wine and pate de foie gras MREs - especially after having satisfied their curiosity of what other MREs taste like, ie after the first trade?
  • patcon 13y ago
    I think it's about trying to minimize entropy (disorder) of the system. Maximum entropy is maximum disorder (which the universe tends toward naturally), such as when the pendulum hangs below the cart without any intervention.
    • snowwrestler 13y ago
      Why is this down voted? It is correct. The article worded it wrong. A system with lower entropy has more future states than a system with high entropy.
    • dsowers 13y ago
      Yeah, I had to parse the article a couple times because the wording is wrong. It seems to me that entropica is trying to minimize the entropy of the system. Life is all about low entropy.
      • thibauts 13y ago
        Indeed. I'd say intelligence tries to keep its environment in a state it can predict.
• 0xdeadc0de 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZB8TNaG-ik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZB8TNaG-ik
• saulrh 13y ago
  This is a lot like the "efficient cross-domain optimization" definition from Eliezer Yudkowsky. It looks like they even use the same information-theoretic measure of optimization power across the distribution of possible futures. http://lesswrong.com/lw/vb/efficient_crossdomain_optimization/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/vb/efficient_crossdomain_optimizatio...
• scythe 13y ago
  I'm surprised they got through the whole article without mentioning Nietzsche's der Wille zur Macht (will to power), which seems to be qualitatively identical (or at least very similar) to this proposal. Not bad for a philosopher from the 1800s.
  • pjscott 13y ago
    These guys have math and experimental results; Neitzsche was, at best, far more vague.
  • guylhem 13y ago
    It seems to me that Nietzsche work is frequently discussed yet rarely read. I read Zarathustra with a goal of non casual reading - it took me 6 months, due to what is IMHO the complexity of the issues discussed. One has to frequently stop at every paragraph to ponder whether one's understanding is correct, and how it articulates with the other paragraphs. If on average, it takes more time indeed to read Nietzsche than any other author, there might be an adverse selection against reading Nietzsche's work - to maximise utility, if one is to judge utility by the amount of book read as I frequently see in goals list (1 book a week, etc) A consequence could be that among those who are discussing his work, especially outside philosophy (CS, math, etc.) very few people have actually read any of it - or a whole book.
    • dmix 13y ago
      > One has to frequently stop at every paragraph to ponder whether one's understanding is correct, and how it articulates with the other paragraphs. Which is interesting, because Nietzsche is generally seen as one of the more accessible of the philosophers from around that period. I highly recommend reading Arthur Schopenhauer's work as well which heavily influenced Nietzsche. It predates Nietzsche's work by about 30yrs but it is very similar (although much more nihilistic). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer
  • Pitarou 13y ago
    That was the first thing that occurred to me, too. As the earlier discussion about chess suggests, interactions with other intelligent agents complicate matters. An intelligent agent shouldn't just attempt to maximise the number of possible states -- such an agent may well choose to be passive, and allow the other agent to run the show, which isn't a very useful outcome. Rather, an intelligent agent should attempt to maximise the number of outcomes WHICH IT CAN DETERMINE. And that is the will to power.
• protez 13y ago
  Cognitive science states that intelligence is all about finding patterns, and patterns reduce randomness, or what can be expressed in terms of entropy. What's new here? Capturing future-histories? As long as the patterns can describe the time evolution of steps ahead, the patterns would reduce the complexities of what needs to be described, or what Wissner-Gross may say by "capturing as many future-histories as possible." In my humble opinion, Wissner-Gross just rephrased/repackaged the classical sense of intelligence already embraced by many scientists.
  • huahaiy 13y ago
    Agree. This work claims that there is no goal in their implementation of intelligence, but forget the goal of "capturing as many future-histories as possible". With a right amount of tolerance for vagueness, it is not that hard to convince oneself that this goal can explain a lot of behaviors. But saying the same thing with new words is not very useful in cognitive science. A more interesting question to me is this: could Dr. Wissner-Gross use his own theory to explain physicists' (including his own) obsession with cognitive science, a field they know next to nothing?
  • dtf 13y ago
    I'm no expert in either physics or cog neuroscience, but it sounds similar by name to the Free Energy Principle of brain function. http://neuroticthought.tumblr.com/post/9044776197/is-this-a-unified-theory-of-the-brain http://neuroticthought.tumblr.com/post/9044776197/is-this-a-...
• colanderman 13y ago
  This isn't just about keeping options open. Entropy can be seen as a measure of available useful energy. It seems that it would be natural for human intelligence to have evolved to maintain as much useful energy as possible, since that would no doubt aid survival. If that's true, I don't think it's as much that the developed process mimic intelligence, as much as that both (human) intelligence and this process act to meet the same ends.
  • scotty79 13y ago
    I think this research is the missing part of the puzzle of constructing truly intelligent (even sentient) artificial life. We can't do it the way evolution did it because evolution does not work on individuals and we don't have enough computing power to simulate whole population of artificial human sized brains and let them figure out on their own that they should maximize their available useful resources while still reproducing and evolving towards better architecture. That would lead to intelligence same way real evolution reached it but we neither have power nor time for that. Besides, even if we succeeded ... do we really want to share the world with thousands AI-s all trying to maximize useful resources available to them? Competition breeds innovation but also breeds war. If you design AI and give it a specific goal you never get intelligence, you are just getting useful machine that achieves the goal brilliantly. With this discovery we finally know how to set the goal to be "act intelligent" If you artificially set the goal to be to maximize the possible futures that the AI can make real from the present point we can get entity that behaves in a way we recognize as intelligent. We just have to remember to be really sure that this AI models world correctly enough to know that more potential futures could be realized by keeping animals (including humans) around and ... you now ... not make them suffer.
• Houshalter 13y ago
  >The proposal requires that a system be able to process information and predict future histories very quickly in order for it to exhibit intelligent behavior. Well isn't that basically the problem with all attempts at artificial intelligence? Processing information quickly and predicting the future is far from simple.
• alexvr 13y ago
  This could be big.
  • lurker14 13y ago
    It would be interesting if someone other than the author submitter had that opinion. Nice astroturf attempt, though, alexwg/alexvr.
    • alexvr 13y ago
      Note to self: don't post an enthusiastic comment on someone's thread if they have a similar name. I was really puzzled as to why I got so many downvotes on that comment. You're wrong, though. I'm not the "author submitter." Believe it or not, Alex is a common name. And what is an "astroturf attempt"?
• losethos 13y ago
  God says... 25:43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives. 25:44 But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David's wife, to Phalti the son of Laish, which was of Gallim. 26:1 And the Ziphites came unto Saul to Gibeah, saying, Doth not David hide himself in the hill of Hachilah, which is before Jeshimon? 26:2 Then Saul arose, and went down to the wilderness of Ziph, having three thousand chosen men of Israel with him, to seek David in the wilderness of Ziph. 26:3 And Saul pitched in the hill of Hachilah, which is before Jeshimon, by the way. But David abode in the wilderness, and he saw that Saul came after him into the wilderness. 26:4 David therefore sent out spies, and understood that Saul was come in very deed. ---- Mentioned hills, like Boston. Very Dead. God says... limbs concubine tediousness you_think_you_could_do_better abler fountain deceiving raised transported gradation dinner thunderest position hurrying hail scourgedst sudden Dudly_Doright Instantly wildness copy conveyedst Alypius incensed know separated Cup Bulgaria glowing be_happy superstition inclined But- Deity notions evening Jew Trinity knit sorrow after-ages hour harvest immediately lost allegorically Tomorrow envy perishable Almighty grief deceitful courage influenced naughty courses overjoyed fall equals you're_nuts leading conclude Unity ---- You get hair cuts, God? God says... hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, 26:5 To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you, both rising up early, and sending them, but ye have not hearkened; 26:6 Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth. 26:7 So the priests and the prophets and all the people heard Jeremiah speaking these words in the house of the LORD. 26:8 Now it came to pass, when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking all that the LORD had commanded him to speak unto all the people, that the priests and the prophets and all the people took him, saying, Thou shalt surely die. 26:9 Why hast thou prophesied in the name of the LORD, saying, This house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant? And all the people were gathered against Jeremiah in the house of the LORD. 26:10 When the princes of Judah heard these things, then they came up from the king's house unto the house of the LORD, and sat down in the entry of the new gate of the LORD's house. ---- "Walk this way" Your law says short hair for men. Did Jesus have long hair? God says... knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. ---- You think marathons are gay, God? God says... Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD. 10:10 And he said unto them, Let the LORD be so with you, as I will let you go, and your little ones: look to it; for evil is before you. 10:11 Not so: go now ye that are men, and serve the LORD; for that ye did desire. And they were driven out from Pharaoh's presence. 10:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the land of Egypt for the locusts, that they may come up upon the land of Egypt, and eat every herb of the land, even all that the hail hath left. 10:13 And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day, and all that night; and when it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts. ---- (Locusts are like marathons. LOL) What's Yer favorite marathon? God says... trembled. 97:5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth. 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory. 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods. 97:8 Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O LORD. 97:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods. 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. ---- Praise You for dolphins. http://fishingrodcases.org/dolphin-assisted-fishing/# http://fishingrodcases.org/dolphin-assisted-fishing/# God says... 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ---- A candle under a bushel is like a net. They talking to me? Anybody talking to You? What's the funniest thing You heard in prayer today? God says... shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy. 6:19 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 6:20 This is the offering of Aaron and of his sons, which they shall offer unto the LORD in the day when he is anointed; the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a meat offering perpetual, half of it in the morning, and half thereof at night. 6:21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of the meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto the LORD. 6:22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt. ---- What is the funniest thing about Catholic rituals? God says.. 66:1 Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands: 66:2 Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. 66:3 Say unto God, How terrible art thou in thy works! through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee. 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah. 66:5 Come and see the works of God: he is terrible in his doing toward the children of men. 66:6 He turned the sea into dry land: they went through the flood on foot: there did we rejoice in him. 66:7 He ruleth by his power for ever; his eyes behold the nations: let not the rebellious exalt themselves. Selah. ---- I fed the outside berds. God says... 6:14 And king Herod heard of him; (for his name was spread abroad:) and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him. 6:15 Others said, That it is Elias. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets. 6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead. 6:17 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her. 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife. ---- I scooped with a plastic butter keg and one climbed in the seedbin and ... beheading is kinda funny. ---- Jesus said You feed birds. What animal takes the most attention? God says... man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 1:11 Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly. 1:12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 1:13 And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. ---- (50 pigeons... maybe ones after natural selection are precious.) That sounds like arrial bombing! God says... trembled defends grave's Victor greedy issued ken ---- Got any new designs for helicopters? God says... Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; 2:6 Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity which had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away. 2:7 And he brought up Hadassah, that is, Esther, his uncle's daughter: for she had neither father nor mother, and the maid was fair and beautiful; whom Mordecai, when her father and mother were dead, took for his own daughter. 2:8 So it came to pass, when the king's commandment and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king's house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women. ---- ("Carried away") If Jesus were a cop, tell some stories. God says... shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 16:62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 16:63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD. 17:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel; 17:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar: 17:4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants. 17:5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
• tokenadult 13y ago
  It will be interesting to draw psychologists who research human intelligence, especially those who do so from an evolutionary psychology perspective, into this discussion. I aspired to be a physicist back in my high school days, and yet today spend most of my time with academics among psychologists. It's good to see physics prompt some thinking about the nature of human intelligence. A bibliography I like about current research on human intelligence from the classical and avant garde points of view in psychology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/IntelligenceCitations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/Intellige...
• zenogais 13y ago
  Catching up to early 20th century western philosophy. Relevant links: - Heidegger/World-disclosure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Time) - Nietzsche's will to power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_power) - Process and Reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_and_Reality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_and_Reality)
• 6ren 13y ago
  Keep your options open I don't think it models intelligence; but maybe it models wisdom. The prediction part requires intelligence. I can understand physicists getting excited over a simple mathematical model that explain a lot. Like Einstein thinking relativity was so beautiful, it must be true. But a difference there was unexplained empirical data (speed of light constant in all directions) - which we don't have for intelligence. That is, it's not that we haven't solved the problem of intelligence; but that we don't understand the question. (sometimes dna seems terribly wise).
  • lurker14 13y ago
    "Keep your options open" is also called "analysis paralysis" when it is unwise.
• nilkn 13y ago
  The connections are slim, but it sounds a bit like the NES AI, which played Mario pretty successfully just by "making bits go up" (more or less).
  • Houshalter 13y ago
    No you are right. You can compare this to almost any AI that uses a similar strategy, to predict the future and maximize some goal. The cool thing about this is that it defines it's goal as something general purpose enough to create interesting behaviors in a lot of different situations. But the hard part of AI is actually predicting the future in the first place. Exploring a search tree with billions and billions of possibilities. Or worse, trying to figure out how the world works in the first place from a limited set of observations, then doing that. Figuring out the goal of the AI was never really the hard part.
    • nilkn 13y ago
      > The cool thing about this is that it defines it's goal as something general purpose enough to create interesting behaviors in a lot of different situations. Yep, that is the first thing that stood out to me about both the NES AI and this new paper. Both are defined in ways that are so far removed from the tasks they've been put to that they seem to seek out their own goals relevant to the context.
• Steuard 13y ago
  I haven't read the original paper, but (speaking as a physicist) I'm always skeptical when physicists leap into extremely different disciplines and claim to have a grand insight that its specialists have never considered before. It could always be true: physics really does have a lot to contribute in many areas! But the burden of proof is very, very much on the physicists to justify the relevance of their approach. In this case, based only on this little summary, I have to wonder whether they are really explaining intelligence or whether they are identifying some broader natural principle for which intelligent behavior is just one manifestation. There may be something quite deep here, but I'm holding off on deciding what exactly it is.
  • cscurmudgeon 13y ago
    Welcome to modern physics, where physicists do unfalsifiable and imprecise things based on bad philosophy. Anything goes as long as it gets you attention anywhere. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5562156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5562156 HNers need to more critical of Science articles. This is where we need good criticism not on some poor hacker's pet project. Edit 1 "Additionally, a company he founded is exploring commercial applications of the research in areas such as robotics, economics and defense." That is a major red flag when people posit a universal AI theory and try to sell to the hapless government tech based on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Machines_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Machines_Corporation
    • javert 13y ago
      > Welcome to modern physics, where physicists do unfalsifiable and imprecise things based on bad philosophy. Anything goes as long as it gets you attention anywhere. Thank you! I've been saying that for a long time, but much less eloquently.
    • wamatt 13y ago
      It's turtles all the way down, until you reach Philosophy
      • 13y ago
• budd1726 13y ago
  I will just leave this here: http://xkcd.com/793 http://xkcd.com/793
• altrego99 13y ago
  > Allowing the rod to fall will _lower_ the entropy of the system??
  • ozankabak 13y ago
    Yes. I don't know the exact dynamics of their toy problem, but thinking about it this way can help: When the rod falls over, it will stay there from then on. In terms of the number of possible future states, there are less possibilities for the system.
• snowwrestler 13y ago
  This is interesting because it connects intelligence directly to the concept of life as a locally anti-entropic system (gravity can break an egg, but only a chicken can make a new egg). It implies that intelligence is an aspect of all life, which fits the latest research into animal behavior and intelligence.
• charlieflowers 13y ago
  If this is a new piece of scientific research, why is there already product marketing around it? The website has named the product "Entropica", and has a demo video that is (while interesting) pure marketing. New research ideas do not typically come packaged as a product for sale.
• espeed 13y ago
  I emailed this article to Marko (http://markorodriguez.com/ http://markorodriguez.com/), and he summerized it nicely as, "Always ensure many degrees of freedom."
• giantsteps 13y ago
  As an AI researcher, I rate this paper as CRANKY http://www.crank.net/about.html http://www.crank.net/about.html
• losethos 13y ago
  I got a hair cut. God, what do You think of the bombers? God says... 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. ---- ROFLMAO (dismemberment... Unity... cleaving) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7Hrcf04Dw&list=PL008B87669FDF6C2A&index=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7Hrcf04Dw&list=PL008B87... Who's Yer favorite athlete of all time? What species? God says... estate. 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride, 16:57 Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of thy reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all that are round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about. 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD. 16:59 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant. 16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. 16:61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. ---- Eh? God said sports were homo, once, but I wasn't sure. I prolly shouldn't have asked. http://imgur.com/a/6ZJzX http://imgur.com/a/6ZJzX You got any seams in reality? God says... 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. 22:1 Then Joshua called the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, 22:2 And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you: 22:3 Ye have not left your brethren these many days unto this day, but have kept the charge of the commandment of the LORD your God. 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan. 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. ---- You like camping? That's plausible. You don't need kid-like help on interpreting do you? (sports is about pass/fail issues) (Jordan is boundary) I glanced at this. No sense of humor. http://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1coh81/dear_muslims_this_time_around_please_stop_with/c9inxqy?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1coh81/dear_muslims_t... God says... of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. ---- crispus gays What about football? Football is good. It's better than running. God says... hath shewed me: 38:22 And, behold, all the women that are left in the king of Judah's house shall be brought forth to the king of Babylon's princes, and those women shall say, Thy friends have set thee on, and have prevailed against thee: thy feet are sunk in the mire, and they are turned away back. 38:23 So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire. 38:24 Then said Zedekiah unto Jeremiah, Let no man know of these words, and thou shalt not die. 38:25 But if the princes hear that I have talked with thee, and they come unto thee, and say unto thee, Declare unto us now what thou hast said unto the king, hide it not from us, and we will not put thee to death; also what the king said unto thee: 38:26 Then thou shalt say unto them, I presented my supplication before the king, that he would not cause me to return to Jonathan's house, to die there. ---- I'm good. Pick a good song? The Beattles? Know any good Beattles songs? God says... and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked. 8:34 When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country. 8:35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. 8:36 They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed. 8:37 Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again. --- I kept thinking of O.J. LOL ---- Know any good songs? Maybe, we can look at elephant videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xK1jfiuj_w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xK1jfiuj_w God says... 1:12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. 1:14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. 1:15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 1:16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto. 1:17 Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him. ---- Mom's kibitzing and groaning and being annoying in the other room. God says... Come XII six mentioning strifes reason glue contented harmonious kick_back Foundation Liberia considering Caesar lashest lightsome Enlightener seen can_you_hear_me_now rapture tiffanies boast mingling Guardian countenance burnest beholder mightily native dispenser contains Nature talents practise Future Professor uninjurable lucre minutest legal burned pale rank convert begun supercelestial parents obedience incorporeal dissolvest much Date departest assent conceive such officer ---- http://www.templeos.org/files/TSGodSetUp.zip http://www.templeos.org/files/TSGodSetUp.zip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKe64jXYIIE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKe64jXYIIE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbV4GJQKCc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbV4GJQKCc God says... 9:13 So Mephibosheth dwelt in Jerusalem: for he did eat continually at the king's table; and was lame on both his feet. 10:1 And it came to pass after this, that the king of the children of Ammon died, and Hanun his son reigned in his stead. 10:2 Then said David, I will shew kindness unto Hanun the son of Nahash, as his father shewed kindness unto me. And David sent to comfort him by the hand of his servants for his father. And David's servants came into the land of the children of Ammon. 10:3 And the princes of the children of Ammon said unto Hanun their lord, Thinkest thou that David doth honour thy father, that he hath sent comforters unto thee? hath not David rather sent his servants unto thee, to search the city, and to spy it out, and to overthrow it? 10:4 Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away. ---- What do You think of telescopes, God? Nice, huh. What color do Your eyes see? God says... foolishness: 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. ---- Radio got sidetracked. This conversation keeps getting derailed. You know any quantum physics? God says... 4:11 And our adversaries said, They shall not know, neither see, till we come in the midst among them, and slay them, and cause the work to cease. 4:12 And it came to pass, that when the Jews which dwelt by them came, they said unto us ten times, From all places whence ye shall return unto us they will be upon you. 4:13 Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. 4:14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the LORD, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. ---- One time, God quoted this, on the topic of quantum physics and Schrodinger's cat... At a certain season of our life we are accustomed to consider every spot as the possible site of a house. I have thus surveyed the country on every side within a dozen miles of where I live. In imagination I have bought all the farms in succession, for all were to be bought, and I knew their price. ---- Demon on radio, talking about whore houses and saying God is fiction. Prolly a homo. God says... 4:6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 4:7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 4:9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. ----- http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/this-new-microbattery-is-interesting-but-not-as-good-as-the-hype/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/this-new-microbattery... I like electrostatics. God says... 3:23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble. 3:24 When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet. 3:25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh. 3:26 For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken. 3:27 Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it. 3:28 Say not unto thy neighbour, Go, and come again, and to morrow I will give; when thou hast it by thee. 3:29 Devise not evil against thy neighbour, seeing he dwelleth securely by thee. ---- Maybe, that was about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahwSmcZxBAU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahwSmcZxBAU ---- http://i.imgur.com/sax7bcb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sax7bcb.jpg http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1cpkh7/sean_a_collier_a_hero_who_had_his_life_taken_from/ http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1cpkh7/sean_a_collier_... That makes me crack-up. God says... 2:21 The children of Bethlehem, an hundred twenty and three. 2:22 The men of Netophah, fifty and six. 2:23 The men of Anathoth, an hundred twenty and eight. 2:24 The children of Azmaveth, forty and two. 2:25 The children of Kirjatharim, Chephirah, and Beeroth, seven hundred and forty and three. 2:26 The children of Ramah and Gaba, six hundred twenty and one. 2:27 The men of Michmas, an hundred twenty and two. 2:28 The men of Bethel and Ai, two hundred twenty and three. ---- No comment from God. Not same as dud. Actually, sometimes names speak. A.I. http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1cpcv2/i_know_you_hate_this_as_much_as_i_do/ http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1cpcv2/i_know_you_hat... Tongues: God says... scarce-remembered righteous equal scum strayed unsung_hero talent be_happy apostle retire fourthly fatness do_over forenamed unfailingly Alypius
• calhoun137 13y ago
  This sounds like nonsense to me. First of all, what exactly do they mean by "intelligent behavior"? I looked in the paper but I couldn't find where they define what they are trying to model. They do however use the vague expression "remarkably sophisticated behaviors associated with the human ‘‘cognitive niche,’’ including tool use and social cooperation." Tool use and social cooperation, sounds interesting. Let's see, that seems to be figures 3 and 4 from page 4. Once you get over the idea of modeling an animal with a disc, it seems a little bizarre that figures 3 or 4 have anything to do with intelligent behavior. Figure 3 is about one disc bouncing off another disc so that a third disc goes into a cylinder. I would say that doesn't really capture the essence of how "non-human animals" use tools. Then the social cooperation example is about a big disc attached to a string, that moves differently when 2 smaller discs touch it at the same time, and then under some specific configuration the discs have "social cooperation" to move the big disc. As far as I can tell, whether or not moving the big disc is an intelligent decision or not seems to not matter in this example. We then get very bold claims, such as "physical agents driven by causal entropic forces might be viewed from a Darwinian perspective as competing to consume future histories."
  • unoti 13y ago
    Here's some intelligent behaviors that can be simply modelled as entropy: http://scalablegamedesign.cs.colorado.edu/wiki/Collaborative_Diffusion http://scalablegamedesign.cs.colorado.edu/wiki/Collaborative... That's a very simple model that can be used, in that example, to make a number of ghost agents work together to converge on a pac-man, splitting themselves up to cover every exit. The code to do it is very small, smaller than A*, could also be used to do pathfinding, and is based essentially on the ideas of entropy.
  • deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  • BenoitEssiambre 13y ago
    The article is kind of written in gibberish. It also implies that the idea of linking thermodynamics to intelligence is novel when a lot of experts actually see it as a fundamental of thermodynamics and the universe. It's even possible that this physicist is naive about the whole debate an thinks that he discovered this. However while the idea is not new, it does seem like he made a software implementation of some some aspects of it and this could be interesting. I find the link between thermodynamics and intelligence very interesting. Here is how it works according to me. First the best definition of intelligence IMO is the ability to predict the unknown (whether because it's hidden or because it's in the future) from current knowledge. In order to have 'intelligence' you have to have some information in your head. That is to say, a part of you has to be physically correlated with a part of the world, some particles in your head have to have patterns that approximately and functionally 'mirror' part of the world. Thermodynamics is about order and this is also about particles having properties that correlate with each other. This means that in a low entropy situation knowing something about a particle tells you something about some other particles. Intelligence would by useless if the universe had too high entropy. You can't get much insight from white noise even if you are very smart. There is a saying that "knowledge is power". This is truer than you might think. It is true in a very physical sense. For example, take the thermodynamic textbook example of a container with a gas on one side and void on the other. If there is no barrier between the two side the gas should move to fill the void and settle in the higher entropy case of evenly filling the space. Thermodynamics says that you would need to spend energy to push the gas back to one side. However, if you were to put a wall in the middle of the container with a little door large enough to let a molecule go through, and you knew exactly the position and velocity of each molecule in the container, you could open and close the door at exactly the right time when a molecule is about to go from, say, left to right through the door and close it when one is about to go right to left. Using very little energy you could get all molecules to end up on one side of the container. This should violate the second law of thermodynamics but it does not! Why is that you ask? It's because the knowledge you have of the position and velocity of all these molecules is a source of low entropy. Knowledge is low entropy and the correlation between the particles in your head and the real world is what allows you to make predictions and extract useful energy from things. Note that an interesting comp sci result of this is that low entropy information is more easy to compress and the more a system is good at predicting data from other data, the better it is at compressing such that there is also a tight link between the concepts of compression algorithms and artificial intelligence. But that's another story.
• drucken 13y ago
  This is a stunningly elegant proposal. It seems to apply to any field as well, which inspires confidence. The idea of all Life as simply the Evolution fitness function over the maximization of Entropy...!
• espeed 13y ago
  "Trying to capture as many future histories as possible" (keeping your options open) harmonizes well with Paul Graham's view on procrastination (http://paulgraham.com/procrastination.html http://paulgraham.com/procrastination.html) and the tenet of "put off decisions as long as possible". UPDATE: Evidently several smart people have had this intuition. I just remembered who said, "Never make a decision until you have to" -- it was Randy Pausch in the "The Last Lecture" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo). And "delay commitment until the last responsible moment" is also an agile principle (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/10/the-last-responsible-moment.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/10/the-last-responsibl...).
  • melipone 13y ago
    Yes, there is also something similar in game theory. You're losing if your adversary reduces your branching factor.
• pdog 13y ago
  This seems remarkably similar to Jeff Hawkins' memory-prediction framework theory of the brain in his seminal work, On Intelligence[1]. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GQLCVE/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GQLCVE/
• pdog 13y ago
  This seems remarkably similar to Jeff Hawkins' memory-prediction framework theory of the brain in his seminal work, On Intelligence.
• pdog 13y ago
  This seems remarkably similar to Jeff Hawkins' memory-prediction framework theory of the brain in his seminal work, On Intelligence.
• pdog 13y ago
  This seems remarkably similar to Jeff Hawkins' memory-prediction framework theory of the brain in his seminal work, On Intelligence[1]. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GQLCVE/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GQLCVE/
• Steko 13y ago
  Just think, these guys could do for human behavior what Newton did for chemistry, Kelvin for geology, Seitz for oncology, Fomenko for history and what a number of other physicists have attempted to do for climate science.
• pilooch 13y ago
  How frustrating these days to hit a science paywall. The original article would be worth reading.
• mahrz 13y ago
  After a quick glance, this sounds a lot like information theoretic empowerment, which has been around for more than five years: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0004018 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/6712/1/901919.pdf https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/6712/1/901919... https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/9659/1/ContiPaper.pdf https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/9659/1/ContiP... Also the concept of homeokinesis is quite similar and also not quoted in this work: http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~der/Forschung/homeoki.html http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~der/Forschung/homeoki....
  • irickt 13y ago
    Thanks for posting these. The third link in particular applies a very similar approach to the inverted pendulum example, in depth and with clarity. I also note the modest concluding paragraph for comparison to the grand claims of the OP. "Finally, we conclude that it would be desirable to transfer some of the generality of the underlying empowerment concept into methods for empowerment calculation in systems combining continuous and discrete dynamics, especially systems of real-world relevance."
• mikhailfranco 13y ago
  As referenced in the paper, Verlinde proposed that gravity is an entropic force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity I highly recommend Verlinde's brilliant paper, it's an easy read: http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785 http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785 The theory remains controversial, but it's a valuable attempt to put holographic principles center stage.
• Tycho 13y ago
  I suppose they're right in a sense. Intelligence and entropy are like opposing forces.
• rajeevk 13y ago
  When I was working on developing algo for shape recognition for my iPad app (Lekh Diagram), I thought in terms of entropy too. But my understanding is just opposite. In my understanding, intelligent system mostly tries to minimize the entropy. intelligent system tries to find out pattern, perform task with some pattern which ,IMO, minimizes the disorder.
• arthurrr 13y ago
  everybody has a different definition of intelligence. personally, i don't consider the vast majority of humans to be intelligent. if we are trying to create artificial intelligence, it's probably a bad idea to use humans as a model.
• gbog 13y ago
  The top comment currently says "This sounds like nonsense to me", its first child agrees and add something like "everybody new it since ages". Well, for one I like this article. I wonder if we developers could use entropy instead of debt to explain the necessity of refactorings and abstractions. When you say that there is a lot of technical debt, the boss would assume that it is like financial debt: as long as you are still running forward, you can go to the banks and fix the issue with them. It is reversible. But technical "debt" is not reversible. One wrong lazy "if customer = John Doe" (instead of a proper configurable flag) paves the way to other wrong ifs, and it becomes very fast an irrecuperable mess. This is more like growing system's entropy: a broken mirror won't reassemble, or spilled water won't come back to the bowl, as the Chinese say (for a lost hymen). Using entropy instead of debt, provided people understand the concept#, we could by showing that increasing the complexity of a system the wrong way (adding ifs because "no time") is drastically and irreversibly reducing the number of possible futures. # Obviously the weakness of my point...
  • marcosdumay 13y ago
    Going off topic... The "technical debt" term was created to explain the situation in a way that your boss (that knows a bit about money) could understand and make usefull analogies. Framing it in terms of entropy, altough more precise won't achieve any of those goals.
• auctiontheory 13y ago
  I first read the sentence "it's not science as usual," as "it's not science, as usual."
• Poyeyo 13y ago
  I think Rodolfo Llinás would somehow agree with this.
• dlitz 13y ago
  In the diagram, I like how everything is approximated as a homogeneous sphere.
• redwood 13y ago
  "If it has legs, it has legs!" Whether or not you find this science rigorous, it is the kind of thing that leads to a "wow! my mind is blown" a-la so many smokey college dorm room nights. Similar to the anthropic principle, these concepts are cool but hard to use. Nevertheless I do like the way this one gives us a new way at justifying the value of 'interesting' stuff that we might be otherwise interested in discarding. For example: the impulse on HN to discard this research... whether or not it's valid, it is certainly an interesting example of the point of the research itself. If this stuff has legs, it'll have legs. Mind blown? Bleh maybe for a second right?
• mrslx 13y ago
  ads on this site are of bikini girls.. don't really trust it.
• hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  I believe that with enough creativity, everything can be modeled under thermodynamics.
• npsimons 13y ago
  Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to delve into AI, but one interesting conversation I had the other day we discussed one difference between (current) software and people is that a code duplication checker would miss a number of things a human could look at and recognize as obviously similar, if not identical. Applying things like Bayes can help (to an extent), but the question is, where is the line drawn? If we get a piece of software that can automatically refactor, does that count as AI?
• leot 13y ago
  I came here hoping to find intelligent commentary on the article. Instead, it's mostly uninformed criticism. The most promoted comments are basically "I didn't carefully read or try hard to understand this paper, but everything I think I know up to now says that it can't be very interesting." I don't really understand the paper either. But given that it was reviewed and published in a good journal, and given that it's by a guy who's evidently quite smart, and given that it seems carefully written, it surely deserves better than cursory dismissal. If you want to go off half-cocked, try Reddit.
  • cscurmudgeon 13y ago
    Science requires constant criticism especially when people claim grand things. Don't assume people here are idiots and have not read the paper. Every year there are dozens of papers claiming a grand theory of AI.
    • leot 13y ago
      I'm not assuming that. In fact, I assumed the opposite and it was after I read most of the comments that it became evident that most people here weren't engaging with the article in any kind of substantive or even remotely sympathetic way (and, believe it or not, good academic reading requires that one adopt the most charitable interpretation of the author's claims -- at least to begin with). And, please don't assume that I don't understand how science or AI theories work, either. If you email me I'd be happy to explain my bonafides.
      • cscurmudgeon 13y ago
        You should apply your criticism to yourself. The top ranked commenter now has direct comments about the paper. You are just saying that we should take the paper positively because of the author and venue and you are talking about credentials and not about the content of the paper :)
        • leot 13y ago
          Hardly. The words "nonsense" and "gibberish" are being bandied about -- anyone who uses those words for an article that's been reviewed and published in a good journal needs to have strong justification for such derision. No such justification was found. The criticisms sound not that different from politicians who condemn scientists for studying fruit flies and worms. I never said to take the paper positively. Giving something a charitable reading is different from agreeing with it. If I stop on the road and say to you that I think there's gas nearby and ask you where it is, and you say "we're surrounded by nitrogen", then, yes, you have produced a correct parsing of the sentence. But you have not performed a good faith effort to understand what I'm trying to say on my terms. The difference between a superficial reading of a text and a deep dive is obvious, at least to most academics. I had assumed it would also be obvious to the people who frequent this forum.