20 ms·

I made $200K and PayPal locked my account

• Porphy 14y ago
  I wont be much help but I can confirm that PayPal does this often and it IS reported upon frequently. I, personally, have had thousands of dollars held (just above 20k USD) for 8 months (6 month hold and 2 months of furious phone calls to get a check cut). I will never use them again as I believe they stifle innovation and are a harm to small businesses that are "making it". PayPal is very much one basket for all your eggs...don't get duped! Get other baskets!
• saumil07 14y ago
  Hey Emmanuel - Saumil Mehta here from LocBox, we spoke a few months ago on the phone. I would urge you to simply hire an excellent immigration lawyer to figure out your options w.r.t. the F-1 before you move forward. I have a San Francisco-based firm that I can refer you to if you like. They are (somewhat) expensive but they do deliver good results and they are not a big faceless firm - fast, efficient, get on the phone quickly. Email me if you want to talk more. FWIW, I dealt with our dysfunctional immigration system for a decade - once having to forfeit a well-paying internship after forgetting to file a dumb piece of paperwork - so I do understand the pain of getting the shaft after busting ass, primarily because of immigration reasons. Anyhow, hope this helps.
• puppetmaster3 14y ago
  Ha ha. Not PayPal Fault! Your fault for using them.
• dunsondj 14y ago
  You're a fool for using PayPal. Everyone knows how dangerous it is.
  • StavrosK 14y ago
    That is extremely useful, actionable advice.
    • dunsondj 14y ago
      If someone was beating themselves with a baseball bat, and complained that it hurt, wouldn't you say "dude, you shouldn't be beating yourself with that baseball bat"?
    • fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
      And timely!
• StavrosK 14y ago
  Don't you have one in Venezuela? They were more than happy to accept my Greek id.
• btown 14y ago
  I've been testing turn.js v3 for personal projects and am seriously considering buying it for production use in a business; it's the only thing out there for dynamically-rendered flipbooks. Sorry to hear about your troubles. At that level of revenue, I'd seriously consider charging using something like Stripe or Braintree. Your target audience (developers) won't consider typing a CC number as such a huge inconvenience. Another note - releasing the 4th release's source code under something like the Affero GPL (or a similar noncommercial license) could drive adoption of that version, since many people like to "try before they buy" - and would like to do so with the most feature-filled version.
  • blasten 14y ago
    Thanks for your feedback.
• dexter313 14y ago
  Were you lying about being an american student?
  • blasten 14y ago
    No, I had an old U.S. account and I wasn't able to change the country. I created a venezuelan account later on, but I saw that the U.S. account provided some features, so I stupidly thought that was ok to then transfer the money to the Venezuelan account. I started to sell licenses while I was outside the U.S.
    • heldrida 14y ago
      Exact same issue here! I moved to England and there's no way I can change my Country. So, my address is correct but not the Country! Paypal just sucks really! I just wonder why don't you Emmanuel provide more information.
• jey 14y ago
  Where does PayPal ask for an SSN? That doesn't sound right.
  • graeme 14y ago
    I'm Canadian, and receive some payments from Americans. Paypal asked me for a Tax ID number of SSN in order to report to the IRS.
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    As of 2011, all payment processors must report the gross receipts of all merchants earning over $20,000 in a year (like Emmanuel) on a Form 1099-K. This form requires a taxpayer identification number. PayPal has to ask for it to file the form. They've also always asked for it as part of their underwriting of accounts that trip their fraud detection systems in some way -- which a sudden jump in payments like this would also do.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• sp_ 14y ago
  When you say you're an international student, do you mean you're in the US on an F-1 visa? If yes, you might be in violation of your visa terms. If you have not researched this, please start reading at http://www.justanswer.com/immigration-law/330cd-holding-f-1-visa-sell-software.html http://www.justanswer.com/immigration-law/330cd-holding-f-1-...
  • blasten 14y ago
    In this world, one must be born rich...
    • djt 14y ago
      It makes it easier, but it could also be said that you should have checked the Terms and Services contract with Paypal.
      • blasten 14y ago
        I started my commercial project in Venezuela, but using a U.S. account.
  • javajosh 14y ago
    Wow, that's just...mind-numbingly awful. If that's true, the Emmanuel just forfeits all that money? I suspect that a good lawyer will be able to recover most of it for him, especially since his presence in the US was not material to the earning of that income.
    • packetslave 14y ago
      IANAL (which is why the OP should definitely talk to one). If the work that generated the income was done while he was physically in the US, then the immigration folks will definitely have an opinion on if it was legal under his visa terms. This may or may not have an impact on any potential legal remedies that are available wrt Paypal.
      • 14y ago
• heifetz 14y ago
  I would get a lawyer in the US. They might think that you're laundering money, until you can prove your id.
• purephase 14y ago
  This really sucks. PayPal is terrible for doing stuff like this, and I really feel for you. While I don't have any specific suggestions for dealing with PayPal, maybe you could setup a Crowdtilt or similar fundraising opportunity and link it on your site? I love turnjs btw. Very slick tool.
• anigbrowl 14y ago
  You have $200k sitting in your paypal account? Don't you have a bank account? What country are you in? What exactly did they say to you? How you mean you 'don't know how' you made $200k - you didn't expect to sell so much, or you sold $200k in one go with no idea who gave it to you? This seriously needs more information.
  • deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  • omfg 14y ago
    It's always a shame stories like this get so much attention. Lots of 'PayPal is evil' comments. A completely one sided 'I'm so innocent I didn't understand' perspective. All companies have issues once in awhile. I get that people are especially sensitive with PayPal because they deal with money and are huge. But come on. If you at all expect to be making more than even a few hundred dollars a month there's an onus on the 'victim' to read up on what they're doing and set things up in an appropriate manner. This situation sucks but it'd be nice if there was a balanced view on it and more helpful dialogue than 'Never use them! Go to court!'
  • mrchess 14y ago
    I'd guess it's more like 2-20K, but if it were only that much would HN have discussed it?
• javajosh 14y ago
  Hi Emmanuel, I'm sorry for your troubles. Sounds like Paypal is being unreasonable - hardly the first time. I would suggest a two-pronged approach: 1. Find a lawyer who can advise you, definitely based in the US, and almost certainly based on CA, the home state of PayPal. As you (potentially) have $200k in cash, you'll have no problem finding excellent representation. Hopefully you can get away with spending only a few thousand. 2. Select a different payment processor. You can do this immediately. Stripe has a good reputation, but there are others as well. 3. (Optionally) Post your progress. Especially if the lawyer can give you good advice that is applicable to others in your same situation, you are potentially saving other innovators many thousands of dollars not to mention headaches. Good luck.
  • blasten 14y ago
    Thanks, i have called paypal 1000 times today.
  • ebf 14y ago
    How is PayPal being unreasonable? A person without a SSN has received $200,000 in their PayPal account. I would be surprised if PayPal didn't freeze that account.
• icedog 14y ago
  I'm flabbergasted by how 200k can be reached within six months with that product.
  • blasten 14y ago
    Actually, I got a very good feedback. Google saw the new turn.js and wanted to promote the next release by the way.
  • ghshephard 14y ago
    I'm unclear as to whether you mean "Flabbergasted" that it's worth more, or flabbergasted that it's a good amount? If you mean "worth more" - well, maybe, but at the same time, you can only make as much as the market will yield. If you mean "worth less" - $200K over six months is OK, but not great if you realize that there will be likely six month period (one year periods?) where revenue will be very low. It's very boom/bust, and the $200K made here needs to go a long, long way. All in all, you would probably (more than 50% of the time) make more money providing desktop support than trying to sell software (or games) as an independent entrepreneur. Of course, some times, you hit it big, and it makes all the sweat and toil worthwhile.
• dexter313 14y ago
  I was always wondering, if PayPal locks a 200k$ account, where does that money go?
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    Typically, to the account holder either (a) after they submit the requested documentation or (b) after 180 days if their account was terminated in order to cover future chargebacks. You just don't read that part of the story because people write about it on day one, not after they understand and have resolved the problem.
  • InclinedPlane 14y ago
    It doesn't "go" anywhere, it's just a balance. It remains locked until some resolution of an investigation happens, it's no different than when a bank account is frozen.
• JoshTriplett 14y ago
  First, before you do anything else, find a reputable payment provider and switch your payment mechanisms over to that, so you don't keep getting money sent into a locked account. And with your new payment provider, make sure you sweep all money you receive out of any account they have access to as soon as possible, up to whatever limits they have on how much you have to leave around for chargebacks and similar. I'd guess that PayPal wants an SSN so they can report your revenue to the IRS for taxes. If so, they might accept an EIN or TIN instead, which you can obtain as a business (which you probably want anyway if you plan on doing that much business). Alternatively, if you are not actually in the U.S. (you didn't say explicitly), you may need the local equivalent instead, though good luck getting PayPal to accept anything that doesn't follow their script. In any case, the instant you get access to your PayPal account again, get all the money out of it before they change their mind, which they frequently do, and switch over to the reputable payment provider you picked in step 1. Finally, next time you start doing business with a service, even a popular one, search for negative experiences with that service and take them seriously. You now know not to use PayPal ever again, but that still leaves quite a few other services out there to get burned by.
  • graeme 14y ago
    I believe this is correct. I got a similar notice, even though I'm Canadian and charge mainly for services rendered in Canada. OP, it takes a little while to get a TIN, but it's pretty straightforward to do so. You can get this as a foreigner, even if you're not in the US. I recommend contacting the IRS to see how to do this. They have a competent international division. A phone call to paypal to see what they require probably couldn't hurt, but you can never be sure with them.
  • eli 14y ago
    An International Student is unlikely to have a visa that allows them to start a company in the US.
    • hippich 14y ago
      You do not have to have a visa to start a company in US. Actually, you can start one without even being in US. Opening bank account for such company - is what tricky without being physically in US.
• sisk 14y ago
  These sort of things generally revolve around tax reporting. As an international student, you should be able to get an ITIN or TCN which, I believe, they also accept.
• heldrida 14y ago
  Why do people keep using Paypal ? Paypal is always taking money from people. Always! It's interesting what's going to happen here. If he can't get his money, is Paypal going to have it ? Why is there the assumption this guy is in the US ? Even if this guy was not legally in the US, this is still his money. If you are young and don't have a national insurance number yet, ask them to change your account holder to one of your parents and give them the NI. I'd basically create a website reporting this issue to the general public and attach all emails and information you can get from them. Also, I'd change the payment method in your website to something else LIKE RIGHT NOW! You should never, ever trust Paypal! Like NEVER! You should also report this to the media, they will love it! $200K is a lot hell of money!
  • readme 14y ago
    Like, we couldn't use a chunk of that 200K here in the US to fix our bulging deficit. This is why we have it.
    • heldrida 14y ago
      Paypal is nowadays, what IE6 is for browsers!
    • newbie12 14y ago
      The full $200,000 would cover, literally, 1.8 seconds of federal government spending.
      • readme 14y ago
        There are lots more immigrants that could be paying taxes if we just adjusted our policies a bit.
        • linhares 14y ago
          Never ask why Eduardo Saverin burnt his us passport and went to Singapore.
• nlh 14y ago
  Sorry to hear about the troubles :( If this wasn't the umpteenth time I've heard this story, I wouldn't say this so pesteringly: To everyone: Stop stop stop stop stop using PayPal. This happens over and over again. For once, thankfully, there are viable alternatives out there -- Stripe & WePay to name two (both of which I've had excellent experiences with). Not saying they're panaceas or that there won't be security/freezing issues from the new guys, but PayPal has a documented, extensive, and repeated history of freezing accounts with large amounts of money in them over short(ish) periods of time.
  • sisk 14y ago
    This may be a non-starter for this gentleman. Both Stripe and WePay have SSN requirement of sorts: https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-for-my-social-security-number-ssn https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-...
    • mamcx 14y ago
      I actually looking for a way to solve this future problem (located in Colombia). I wish I could use stripe or baintree. Opening a account in USA from my local bank requiere US 30.000 in the first deposit (!) and creating a US company (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581) I worry for the legal/financial repercussions of that. The local payment processors suck worse than paypal. I use fastspring, they support my country, but can't use it for mobile payments (my requeriments). How badly this sucks...
      • alpeb 14y ago
        As for opening an account, you could take a trip to Miami and open it by yourself. No need to be a resident. Then make withdrawals in Colombia from an ATM (up to 780k COP at once) at a not too bad exchange rate.
        • mamcx 14y ago
• twanlass 14y ago
  Emmanuel, I can't help you get back the money that PayPal has frozen, but I can help you keep selling it and ensure you keep what's yours. Email me - tyler [at] simplegoods.co
• electic 14y ago
  I think there is a problem here. If you are saying you do not how how you made it then there might be truly something wrong with your account. It is rare for any open source project that is a js widget essentially to pull in 200k in six months. I think there is a bit more information at work here and you are leaving it out. I think what Paypal did was justified while they investigate what is going on.
  • blasten 14y ago
    When I said, I didn't know how I was referring to the fact that I never expected that. I started turn.js as a weekend hack with html5. Then, I showed it on HN and asked for a Job. Later, I went to some tech company, I didn't get forward for whatever reasons. Turn.js was initially MIT licensed, and I had literally no money. However, some people were making 30k or more selling my javascript on some marketplaces, so I decided to stop and get back my credits. I created a commercial license, and everything started to change. I never enjoyed my money, I came to the U.S. because I needed a degree...
• sharemywin 14y ago
  Do you have a cousin in Nigeria?
• donohoe 14y ago
  Get a taxpayer ID and give them that? http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-(TIN) http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpa...
  • edouard1234567 14y ago
    That's not a good advice. If you care about your present and future ability to legally stay and work in the US, you should first consult with an emigration lawyer since it appears that you're breaking emigration laws and only then try to get your money back.
• stch2 14y ago
  Sorry, they stole your money. This is a big advantage of theirs, they aren't regulated like a bank so they have no trouble taking money from marginalized people.
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    Why does someone always write this? PayPal is regulated to exactly the same degree a merchant account from a bank is. Their contracts are essentially identical, mirroring PayPal's own agreements with the banks that underwrite their accounts (Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase). Banks suspend merchant accounts and freeze their money for the same reasons and for the same periods of time, and no regulation stops them from doing so. In many countries, PayPal is considered a bank. In the US, it is licensed and regulated as a money transmitter in all 50 states.
    • mrkris 14y ago
      I don't recall banks freezing your assets for 6+ months to make sure your business is legit.
      • dangrossman 14y ago
        I do, since it happened to me 9 years ago when I was as naive about the industry as you. First National Bank of Omaha, the largest privately held bank with $17bn in assets, if you're curious. The several thousand dollars of customer payments they had not yet disbursed was held for exactly 180 days before they released it to me. Do you not recall because you haven't read your own agreement, or because you haven't actually opened a merchant account with a bank before? You don't have to take my word. Type ["merchant account agreement" 180] into Google to see some 40,000 examples of bank contracts with that same hold period written into them.
      • PeterisP 14y ago
        I've worked in a bank, and we did freeze accounts on money laundering suspicions - it's not even a choice, the law requires to do so in certain conditions. And the OP case description is quite unclear, but the details sound like that it might be not "assets frozen while check if business is legit", but actually a threat of "charges filed against owner for circumventing anti-money laundering laws and assets confiscated".
• sinak 14y ago
  I highly recommend contacting executiveoffice@paypal.com. I've had many problems with PayPal in the past, but they were the only group able to make corrections to my account and release funds.
• jonathanmarcus 14y ago
  You should contact David Marcus, Paypal's relatively new CEO. At least one other HN thread shows his willingness to help: http://ndy.gd/JJgB http://ndy.gd/JJgB
• aakash2 14y ago
  Find a person with your name in US, use his SSN and pay him 10% of your earnings.
• readme 14y ago
  Lawyer up. This is ridiculous.
• cjbprime 14y ago
  Sad to hear this, I've used and appreciated turn.js. Hopefully the tax situation works itself out as other commenters have described.
• donnfelker 14y ago
  Use PayPal - get screwed. Rinse, wash, repeat.
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    If you open US payment processing accounts without US citizenship or a Visa that allows it, take 6 figures in payments while out of the country, then try to move it into an anonymous payment account across international borders, someone's going to investigate it. The tax code ensures that investigation begins within a year, since that kind of money moving has to be reported on a 1099-K. That's not PayPal screwing anyone, Donn.
    • linhares 14y ago
      Use bitcoin for anything that's not tied up in an inverted totalitarian regime. And Dan, look up, check out for the drones.
• gojomo 14y ago
  Concur with javajosh's recommendation to find a California/USA-based lawyer for help. Advice from semi-anonymous strangers in internet forums is worth what you pay for it. Generally, in the search for a lawyer, you get to talk to many (without charge) for 15-45 minutes each. You may be surprised how widely their estimations of the issues vary -- the law is the law, right? -- but you'll learn something from each conversation, and perhaps find someone you trust with your concerns. Also, legal confidentiality means that even if you've messed up on some tax/immigration/work-authorization/business things, talking with them honestly doesn't mean you've made any admissions that get back to the authorities (unless and until with their advice you decide that's the best course). If a student in the US, your educational institution may also have a legal aid clinic. You can probably get an 'ITIN', the equivalent to a Social Security Number for non-domestic individuals/entities who need an SSN-like number for tax/financial reporting purposes. See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identification_Number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identificat... ...and the related IRS pages. And again, just getting the number isn't admitting to anything or any tax liability. However, it then will be used by financial institutions (like PayPal) to maintain their internal and government-required reporting requirements. Separate from just tax issues, amounts in the tens-of-thousands (and sometimes less) are subject to reporting to control money-laundering from large-scale illegal activities.
  • bravura 14y ago
    legal confidentiality means... IANAL, but I don't believe you have attorney-client privilege until you formally hire the lawyer. So if you are calling ten lawyers and getting advice, there is no guarantee of privilege.
    • sswaner 14y ago
      According to the lawyer across the table, privilege starts with the first conversation.
      • edouard1234567 14y ago
        Interesting BUT what if the lawyer has a conflict of interest and learns that during the initial conversation before committing to representing you. Does that mean he/she cannot use the information you provided to defend the interest he currently represents assuming he refused to represent you?
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• pbreit 14y ago
  Do you or your parents have bank accounts in the US or in your home country? I would suggest working with PayPal to switch your account to your original country and seeing if you can then get the funds withdrawn.
  • rafaelm 14y ago
    Unfortunately we are not allowed to have dollars in Venezuela. Look CADIVI up in Wikipedia
    • pbreit 14y ago
      PayPal is multi-currency so perhaps it's possible to convert to a currency that will work. I guess the point is, moving money around is not that easy, country borders make it significantly more difficult, PayPal freezes typically make sense (such as in this case) but PayPal is made up of people, many of whom might be willing and able to help you out.
• patio11 14y ago
  Apply for a TIN - taxpayer identification number. PayPal can use it in lieu of an SSN. This will take you six weeks. In the alternative, consult a local lawyer and have them nastygram Paypal for you.
  • davidu 14y ago
    Incorporation and a TIN takes ~24 hours these days.
    • patio11 14y ago
      I am not sure what the process looks like for legal persons, but from recent experience inquiring about and gathering paperwork to get my wife (a Japanese citizen) an ITIN, I was quoted six weeks by multiple authoritative sources, including my accountant and the IRS.
  • canttestthis 14y ago
    If he's an international student, he's only allowed to work on campus. If he gets a US tax ID and files income under that, his library sales will count as off-campus income (I think?). So I'm not sure if this is an option. Of course, IANAL.
    • einhverfr 14y ago
      But that depends. I would suggest talking with an immigration lawyer. Surely the fact that such is non-tangible sales over the internet should allow some reasonable solution. I have founded businesses with people from other countries and I have never had trouble with immigration laws provided that people weren't doing billable labor for customers in countries where they weren't supposed to.
• dangrossman 14y ago
  From your comments, you had multiple PayPal accounts (disallowed), were in Venezuela, using a US PayPal account, then transferring the funds to a PayPal account in Venezuela, and can't provide a tax ID for the US account. At the same time, you went from zero to hundreds of thousands in payments in just a few months. To PayPal, you likely appear to be a criminal involved in some type of money laundering or tax evasion scheme. I don't know enough about student Visas and international tax agreements to say you aren't actually engaging in tax evasion, perhaps unknowingly. It's not surprising they locked the account and asked for documentation. The tax code pretty much guarantees they would within a year in order to file the 1099-K on your account. This stuff is serious to them, both from a financial (the potential losses if this money disappears because it's not been moving legally) and regulatory fronts (US Patriot Act among others requires banks, like those underwriting your US PayPal account, to be able to accurately identify their customers). This might not be easy to fix.
  • greenyoda 14y ago
    Thanks, I had never heard of a 1099-K before. In case others are curious, here's a description of what it is: "Due to the rise of of people making money with the help of the Internet, the 1099-K has been introduced. For the most part, the 1099-K is meant to ensure that income made from power sellers on sites like eBay is properly reported. The 1099-K is issued by third party payment processors, including banks and non-bank services like PayPal. So, if you use eBay to earn money selling, your transactions, processed through PayPal, will be reflected on the 1099-K issued by PayPal."[1] [1] http://cashmoneylife.com/1099-k-form-reporting-requirements http://cashmoneylife.com/1099-k-form-reporting-requirements
  • sigkill 14y ago
    This was a problem for me while moving. I had to completely delete my US paypal account and only then was I able to open another account in an international address. There was no simple way to 'migrate' the account or add another card with an international address.
• savoy11 14y ago
  Come on guys, this is definitely a fake message used to promote his widget on HN. What do you mean by "I do not know how I made $200,000?" This does not make any sense at all. You get email notifications from PayPal once you are paid, you have definitely received emails from customers regarding technical support and/or presales questions. Also - you say you do not have any money at the moment, yet for 6 months you have tens of thousands of dollars in PayPal and you make no effort to actually claim them? What were you waiting for - to get to 1 million in PayPal before actually getting the money, while you stay penniless and hungry? Sorry, this is bullshit. Sorry, I do not buy it and I find this method of "promotion" lame. At least next time try to make this a bit more believable, cause now it's hilariously stupid and I am wondering how many people here fell for this cheap trick.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• unreal37 14y ago
  Apply for a TIN. That's equivalent to a SSN for tax purposes.
• blantonl 14y ago
  Disclaimer: I have a love hate relationship with Paypal. My organization runs most of our payment processes through Paypal. With that said, some questions: 1) How were you able to process 30k/month through Paypal out of the gate without providing a government ID? 2) How much of the 200K were you able to withdrawal? If any? Do you have any of it in cash? 3) Did you experience an abnormal amount of chargebacks? I'd love to hear your thoughts.....
  • blasten 14y ago
    33K while I was in Venezuela. I had an old U.S. account, so I wanted to change it to Venezuela. My PayPal U.S. account had crazy address like: Avenida GRGRGR, Estado GRGR, United States. They said to me, you can't change the country, so you should create a new account. I did that, but once I noticed less features in PayPal Venezuela, I decided to keep the same code in my website and move the money from the U.S. account to the Venezuela account. I have 1% or less of chargebacks. My customers are happy.
    • PeterisP 14y ago
      You should lawyer up. Having multiple accounts with intentionally fake adresses and this sum of money may be illegal and punishable according to money laundering laws; and the business may get you thrown out of USA permanently due to visa violation - so you need to protect yourself.
• rikacomet 14y ago
  Hi, I'm not a expert on US laws, but given how it mostly works, yeah you are in the wrong, if they say so. But all is not lost I suppose. You must find a lawyer in any case, a good one! though there is no guarantee it will work, but if something would work, it would be this or a clear provision/flaw you may find on your own (I take it that you won't be able to) Three legal courses might work on broader terms, leave the actual litigation to the lawyer. 1. The lawyer may prove that someone, who is a US citizen, a family member preferably, or a family friend, is the real owner of the product, and you mis-stated your facts. (meaning, you didn't say under oath, that the said service/product was your and yours ALONE) The lawyer would take his cut in all cases, and if anything, you should give your family member a cut as well, in this case. Its better than nothing out of 200k$! 2. You may establish a US company, preferably in a state where tax is low and norms are lax, based on strong advice of your lawyer, with preferably the same name as your product. The lawyer in this case would prove (or try to) that the company would receive the money (being a separate legal identity), and a friend of yours who is a US citizen, would be the trustee of the company. Similarly to above, lawyer will get his cut, your friend would do as well (unless he is the nicest guy on the planet, if he does not take any money, do PM about it on reddit@rikacomet). 3. The lawyer, may establish, that there was an error in your understanding of the US laws (which is clearly so), and since paypal allows for you to be a member of any country, you shall recieve it upon changing the credentials of yours, to your native one's. The lawyer, shall argue, that the payment made by your customers, would hold true, despite you changing ONLY your address details. Alternatively, if all your payments were made by credit card (which might be the case), you may contact, all your customers, to initiate a cash back (where they will legally call back money from their bank, after stating that a huge flaw was made, and the original deal holds untrue) the bank would know its way with paypal, so no worries there, but what you need to worry about is bank making a case against you. So you would need a lawyer again over here. Disclaimer: Always, talk to a professional lawyer about legal matters, mine is only mildly suggestive in nature based on laws existing in my country. NOTE: Please be very careful, while finding a good lawyer, while you do, make sure to make it clear to him, that the payment, would be only a cut out of the 200k in question here, and not out of your pocket. Take this on a legal document in WRITING, with his signature and official stamp heads, in presence of 2-4 witnesses etc. You really don't want to lose 200k, and then also pay a American lawyer out of your pocket!
• rafaelm 14y ago
  Maybe they have issue with the fact that you are from Venezuela? I've sen multiple venezuelan PayPal accounts being blocked because they know sometimes they are used for getting around CADIVI (currency exchange restrictions). Maybe your nationality and the fact that you made that much money triggered some flags. From a fellow venezuelan, hope you get your money back. And congratulations on your success even in this unpleasant situation.
  • fabiandesimone 14y ago
    Are you in TO?
• pknerd 14y ago
  Wish these companies could make Terms and Conditions Human Readable
• donniezazen 14y ago
  If you go to school here in US, you are allowed to work on-campus and that will make you eligible for a SSN. Check with your international center.
• richardjordan 14y ago
  Contact one of the Silicon Valley law firms that's used to dealing with these things. Don't go to some cheapo ambulance chasing lawyer who doesn't know what to do. Even if you cough up $20k in fees to a law firm it's worth doing. They'll help you set up a company for your product and steer everything through that to unlock your funds. A lot of advice on here is overly negative and misinformed. As someone who has had to deal with changes of legal status, setting up companies as a foreigner, and has dealt with the hell of PayPal account freezing, I can assure you this is fixable if you work with a reputable experienced law firm.
• rodyce 14y ago
  You can get a social security number with you F1 or J1 visa.... I just did when I got my MSc. For example, if you work as a T.A. or R.A. you get a SSN. Good Luck!
  • PeterisP 14y ago
    If you get a SSN on a F1 visa, you are allowed to work as a T.A. for a limited number of hours - but as soon as full-time commercial job or 200k of business income is reported to that SSN, your visa turns into a ticket back home.
• volandovengo 14y ago
  Paypal are bastards, as simple as that.
• stickydink 14y ago
  You should talk to a lawyer immediately. You should also read up on just what exactly your visa allows you to do. Assuming you have an F-1 visa, you are pretty much (with some small exceptions), not allowed to work. This includes self-employment, freelancing, anything. What you should have done (and this is still a legal uncertainty) is have the funds tied to a Venezuelan bank account, your Venezuelan personal and tax identification. It's a little late for that, however. Best of luck retrieving your funds. I wouldn't be surprised if you got PayPal to release them (they are not themselves a government, so just require enough information to cover their own ass). But expect to be asked some very serious questions by USCIS. For that reason you don't want a regular lawyer, you main issue here will be trying to convince the US you weren't breaking your visa terms. You need an immigration lawyer.
• darkhorn 14y ago
  Why you didn't pull your money from PayPal once every week?
  • blasten 14y ago
    Good question.
• gamblor956 14y ago
  You need an ITIN, which is the equivalent of an SSN but for non-US taxpayers receiving payments from US sources. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Individual-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-%28ITIN%29 http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Individual-Taxpayer-Identific...
• ChuckMcM 14y ago
  Sad story, I agree with folks who say you should seek out legal advice. HEADS UP FOR ANYONE ELSE CONSIDERING THIS: If you are going to receive funds with PayPal and they are going to exceed the 'occasional sale' guidelines (which some people interpret to mean the same guidelines at the rule for sending an IRS 1099 form which is < $600 annually. First establish your business presence in the US, that means creating an LLC, getting an EIN [1] and establishing a relationship with a US based bank. If you get hung up on those steps, don't start taking money with PayPal because their zealous anti-fraud/laundering/drug program fires on a hair trigger. It didn't help that the OP is a student from Venezuela which is not one of America's trading partners. I expect you will lose most of this money in legal fees. However, if the business is durable, and you manage to establish your LLC (that lawyer you got can help with that) then you will make it back and PayPal will back down. As long as the money trail can be tracked and everyone in the path reports it to the Federal Government so that they are satisfied it isn't part of a laundering scheme[2], or if it was they can catch the folks involved, you will be ok. [1] http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-(TIN)#ein http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpa... [2] This is how the laundering scheme would work. Some criminal enterprise hires a bunch of third parties to buy your 'widget' for an inflated price, say $10,000 per copy. You sell the 20 copies, get the $200,000, now you go to a coffee shop owned by the criminal enterprise and buy a Double Vente Latte for $180,000 made out of hand picked coffee beans. The crook now has $180,000 of "legitimate" income from his coffee shop, you have $20,000 in "profits" on your amazing Javascript widget, and 20 drug dealers have a bit of software they just delete from their hard drive (if they down loaded it at all). Everybody "wins." So the US Government wants to be able to subpoena your customer list to track the money from the drug dealers to you and then back to the crooks. Paypal helps with that. If you make it hard for them to do that, they keep you money.
  • nekojima 14y ago
    'It didn't help that the OP is a student from Venezuela which is not one of America's trading partners.' A common misconception among Americans. Though understandable considering the state of diplomatic relations. "The United States is Venezuela's most important trading partner. U.S. exports to Venezuela include machinery, organic chemicals, agricultural products, optical and medical instruments, autos and auto parts. Oil dominates U.S. imports from Venezuela, which is one of the top four suppliers of foreign oil to the United States. About 500 U.S. companies are represented in Venezuela. U.S. foreign direct investment in Venezuela is concentrated largely in the petroleum, manufacturing, and finance sectors." http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35766.htm http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35766.htm
• ll6068 14y ago
  INAL either, but I have gone through the ITIN process. If you follow this route you will need to send notarized documents(birth certs, passports). The difficulty is that the US will not recognize notarized by any one out side the US. This was not explicitly stated(a few years ago), after having ITIN applications rejected 3 times, we took the paperwork to the US consulate, they processed it and it was all good.
• edouard1234567 14y ago
  First, I didn't know about turn.js, just checked it out, it rocks! Second : You are probably breaking emigration laws. I'd recommend you consult with an emigration lawyer ASAP.
• linuxhansl 14y ago
  It boggles my mind how PayPal can again and again get away with this. The ability of PayPal to be a bank and yet avoid being one legally is interesting. If you hold somebody else's money you are a bank, whether you call yourself that way or not.
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    Have you read any of the comments here before writing your own? What is PayPal getting away with? How would another bank have acted differently? What regulation do you think applies to banks but not to PayPal in this situation? They are all beholden to the PATRIOT Act, and to the IRS; PayPal is also beholden to 50 different states' Money Transmitter licensing regulations. None of them want to be a conduit for international money laundering.
    • linuxhansl 14y ago
      I could ask you same about reading comments... If I am not mistaken a significant percentage of them seem to agree with me and suggest sweeping funds to an actual bank periodically. I apologize if I somehow offended you, but I stand by my statement.
      • deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      • PeterisP 14y ago
        1) he would not be able to get an actual US bank account without getting the legal issues in order; 2) sweeping funds would not prevent either his tax problems or visa problems, which likely are much more serious than simply the locked money. Sweeping funds would be a nice-to-have - it would have helped, sure, but it's not really a solution.
  • Qantourisc 14y ago
    Been thinking the same thing for a while. We even adjusted the accounting software to tread PayPal as if it was a bank ... The amount of accounting time on PayPal went down. Because it's well ... a bank, without the legal obligations :( and that means we are screwed.
• redact207 14y ago
  Why is PayPal's policy to wait until the account accrues significant funds and then lock it? If the OP doesn't have an SSN then why wouldn't PayPal block the account from being registered in the first place?
  • stan_rogers 14y ago
    Occasional sales of personal property below a threshold value are not taxable, nor do they need to be reported to the IRS, etc., nor do most payments, so creating an account does not necessarily require an SSN/TIN.
• therandomguy 14y ago
  If you are on a student visa you are not allowed to get that money even if you had a SSN. You will be violating the rules of your visa. After you graduate, find a job and go on H1-B you still can't earn any money outside that job. No paypal, not adsense, no stripe. Eventually if you decide to apply for a green card these things will come up and you will have to leave the country.
• droithomme 14y ago
  The comments here are good. One point not addressed in the comments is that whether PayPal ever gives you the money back or not, OP has earned $200,000 in income while in the United States and he owes the IRS and possibly the state government as well full US income tax on this amount since he was in the US at the time he did this work. It doesn't matter what his visa situation is, that has nothing at all to do with if he owes taxes. He is required to file an income tax return this year, and pay the taxes, end of story. If he doesn't pay the taxes, he might go to jail and probably will get a felony record and be permanently banned from returning to the US after release. So this is a pretty serious problem and requires a legal team, which undoubtedly will cost the full amount on deposit to untangle. He can't just walk away from the situation and let PayPal keep the money, unless he can get the amount he owes in taxes from a relative and pay it, which then puts him into debt.
  • tluyben2 14y ago
    Instead of all the negative comments about Paypal (I still use them, but I make sure I withdraw money at least every month, in busy times more often), I would suggest not going to the US without stuff like this covered and enough money & insurance to defend yourself. It seems the US is overly aggressive in most legal matters and doesn't really consider the circumstances too much (I don't know if this is overall true, but it seems so from everything I have read). This could ruin a person's life while he only wanted to make some money; it should be possible to explain that and get some understanding instead of threats, bills of lawyers, putting his family in debt for paying his legal fees. He simply didn't know the consequences of what he was doing in trusting Paypal. That's not his fault and he shouldn't be punished for that by a crippled, lawyers take all, 'justice' system. I'm wondering; when I travel abroad for longer times I have law assistance insurance; it's not expensive and, in his case, it would pay the lawyers for me (set aside some self risk of around E500 one-off per case); isn't this normal for people to close before going that long (and thus more risky) to the US?
• plumeria 14y ago
  After you get your money back, dish Paypal and use Stripe.
• marizmelo 14y ago
  Sorry about what happened with you. The only why you could get the money is to had the PayPal account linked with one account in Venezuela instead of US. According with your F1 status (and mine) you cannot earn any money in US while studying, unless you get authorization from school to work out of campus (CPT), or after conclude your studies (OPT). Even under CPT/OPT you cannot earn money other from other place than the place you work on. Sorry, I wish you the best luck.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• sidcool 14y ago
  Good luck buddy. I can only hope you get all the necessary help. That's because I am not in any position to help you.
• vishalzone2002 14y ago
  i did suggest you ask this question at Quora too
• jfccohen 14y ago
  Use WePay.com
• eof 14y ago
  Find an american friend with a SSN? I am not sure this would really work, but it's definitely worth a shot. Of course your friend will have to count it as income; but honestly this will probably be a lot cheaper than hiring a lawyer if it works. I don't really see a downside to trying this method; since you can't really lose the money that's already gone.
  • InclinedPlane 14y ago
    The downside is that it then starts to look even more like fraud or money laundering and possible legal action, in addition to the freezing of the account, happens. This is the worst advice in this entire thread. The money isn't gone, it's just frozen. It can get unfrozen quite easily provided that Emmanuel is smart and makes sure to get a good lawyer who can walk him through all of the necessary steps to get his business set up correctly.
  • dunsondj 14y ago
    Lie to the authorities... what could possibly go wrong?
• InclinedPlane 14y ago
  Wow, the sheer quantity of unhelpful advice in this thread is simply mind boggling. Hey, let's all hate paypal because they "steal" people's money. Ignoring the seriously thorny legal bramble that the OP has run headlong into with nary a concern. There is a bounteous variety of comments of the form "Paypal sux! {Use X instead!}" Where X may be stripe, or wepay, or whatever. Ignoring the fact that stripe wouldn't help in this case (it's US only), if you go read the terms of service of stripe or wepay you'll find exactly the same things there as are at issue here. You'll need an SSN or EID or tax ID with stripe too, just as you would with a WePay business account. There's a reason for that, and it has to do with the law. There are maybe only half a dozen reasonable, substantially helpful, and actionable replies in this whole thread (which would put it at maybe a 4% SNR), almost all the rest is useless. If this is what HN is going to be, I don't want it. As for my advice, it's simple. Go talk to a lawyer as soon as possible, you have a lot of issues that need sorting and a good lawyer is absolutely necessary to get through those issues, and they'll help to put you on the right footing to deal with paypal. It sucks that you have been acting in good faith and doing good work and have gotten tangled in the mess that is the many layers of laws, regulations, and corporate policies that make up our modern immigration, taxation, and financial systems. You have my sympathies for that and I wish you the best of luck, hopefully you'll be able to keep the proceeds of your excellent work without any serious negative repercussions.
  • winter_blue 14y ago
    I've replied with some very practical advice relating to OP's specific situation (F-1 student) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5191832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5191832 (Sorry if this sounds like I'm promoting it or anything. I just don't want my comment to get buried among the 150+ other comments here.)
    • wyuenho 14y ago
      I used to be an international student in the US. So I feel OP's pain. I have an advice in addition to winter_blue's. However, I have been out of the US for 3 years and I don't know if any rules have changed since then. Besides applying for precompletion OPT which will take months and months, a much quicker route for me was to get a part-time job at school. I did this when I was working as a CS tutor in my CS department's lab. This could still be possible for international students, it's definitely worth checking right row. The reason a social security card or a tax ID is needed for international student is solely for tax purposes. Yes, you read it right, we pay sales tax and income tax and don't get to vote or a path to citizenship in less then 20 years. I suspect your funds were frozen because PayPal could not determine whether your money should be considered income or something else. If it's income, you'll have to pay taxes. I don't know which school you go to, but generally there should be hundreds of part-time jobs in all sorts of variety available at your school to accommodate students in work-study programs. You can apply for a job to be a lab janitor in a day and get your SS card in less than about 2 weeks. Once you have that then you can file a dispute complaint with PayPal. Good Luck. ---Additional Advice Here After Edit--- If your 200k is saved towards paying for your tuition and living expenses, and you have money problem now, you should talk to your school's international student's office and/or legal counsel immediately. You might be allowed to work off-campus and stay in school under the premise that you are in "economic hardship".
• neo0oen 14y ago
  i've no idea. But wish u good luck
• ck2 14y ago
  So much for the kinder, gentler paypal. http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/21/technology/paypal-frozen-funds/ http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/21/technology/paypal-frozen-fun... I guess it was all talk. Never, ever, keep more than $100 in a paypal account (or as much as you are willing to lose immediately, forever). Also, if possible, close the bank account your paypal is tied to as they will draw from it as they see fit without your consent.
  • dangrossman 14y ago
    The kinder, gentler PayPal can't ignore the law, the tax code, or serious risks of criminal activity on its platform. They made a commitment to cut the red tape in the situations where it didn't make sense, not to throw out the rulebook and the rule of law. None of what happened here is inconsistent with their promise. This situation isn't some innocent trinket seller whose account was frozen without reason and without recourse. It's a foreign national funneling six figures across borders through multiple anonymous PayPal accounts even after being advised, by PayPal directly, to stop doing so. Above and beyond the breach of contract and ignoring PayPal's guidance to stop using a US account when he's not a US citizen or even in the US, the activity looks pretty much exactly like money laundering. On top of that, PayPal has its own legal obligations to the United States, which it can't fulfill since he's not providing a tax ID while he's passed the IRS reporting threshold by a factor of 10. They closed his US account, which they gave him warning he wasn't supposed to be using. He hasn't claimed they are keeping any of his money, and they didn't stonewall him about why it's being closed. Should they have allowed him to continue operating illegally forever? My opinion of many people has dimmed as a result of the comments here. They say you can judge a person's character by how well they treat their waiter at a restaurant. In the startup world, how fast someone is to trot out a "PayPal is evil" comment whenever the company is mentioned, no matter the circumstances, might be a decent analogy.
    • ck2 14y ago
      Now we have paypal apologists and defenders. I guess that's like how no-one can imagine cops as abusive and surely the person must have done something to deserve it. I guess we'll have to wait until you are on the wrong side of paypal and then you can tell yourself you deserved it. Ask yourself who gets to keep the $200k if he cannot jump through their hoops. Hint: it's not the government.
• iapi 14y ago
  Get a TIN its an alternative to SSN for non-us citizen who are doing business with United States
• judegomila 14y ago
  This happened to me back in 2007, contact me for tactics.
• camus 14y ago
  question , why the hell would you let 200k sitting on a paypal accound for 6 months ? i dont understand. At least invest that money in obligations, life insurance or something ... even with 3/4% returns it is worth it, you could almost live without working in Venezuela ...
• codexon 14y ago
  Is anyone else amazed this guy made 200k with an open source js library like this? What am I doing with my life?
• rorrr 14y ago
  Sue.
• centdev 14y ago
  PayPal is not as crooked as people say they are. Just start a company with someone in he US. Payments go,to their company and they pay you. Assuming its a legit business "don't know how I made" 200k doesnt sound legit.
  • linhares 14y ago
    You realize how much freedom people like you take from regular people? PayPal makes the Sopranos look kind and caring, as do he TBTF banks. "Doesn't sound legit".... I hope you're caught into the other side of "inverted totalitarianism" and just maybe you might be able to see what the mirror has to show you.
• rgovind 14y ago
  Sorry to hear your situation. For others: Assuming this problem is solved, in future, can an international student collect payments in his home currency? Will US govt allow full time students to do side businesses?
• praz78 14y ago
  Emmanuel, sorry this happened! We can fix it... I sent you an email with my PayPal email address and my cell phone (call/email if you wanna understand what might have happened here). I have also sent his thread off to folks within PP who can help lift/adjust the restriction. Should be sorted in no time, dont lose hope :)
• sturmeh 14y ago
  You'll get your money in a few weeks, PayPal are just enjoying the interest for now.
• ForFreedom 14y ago
  Next time always remember to withdraw your earnings no matter how small the amount, once its in an account other than your bank.
• Mattbunner 14y ago
  wow, that's crazy? Holy crap
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• webjac 14y ago
  Hey Emmanuel, long time no speak. I would suggest you go to a lawyer as well, I know how hard it is for us Venezuelans out there. I had a PayPal block once as well and managed to solve, it takes time and a lot of documentation, however it was not even close to the ammount you're mentioning here. There are alternatives like creating your own company and giving the info of your company to PayPal, that way everything will be as legal as they might need. Let me know how it goes, best of luck bro
• bambax 14y ago
  It seems turnjs.com is still using PayPal... At this point you should switch to another provider...
• Raz0rblade 14y ago
  Maybe make it work using a different bank system and IBAN payments IBAN is international, you might consider opening a IBAN acount in Venezuela. I'm in europe and i like Ideal much more then paypall. As "Ideal" is much more secure. Other options might be bitcoin, or maybe game dollars wich can be changed to hard valuta like lindendollars ...
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• NicoJuicy 14y ago
  I once saw a topic where the new CEO requested that people with problems contact him in person. I thought it was david@paypal.com, i'm not sure.
• shocks 14y ago
  Hi there. Congratulations on your success, I'm very sorry to hear you're having problems. The issue seems to be that PayPal are worried you're doing something illegal and are not going to pay tax. My advice would be to get a lawyer so you can do everything required to pay tax correctly. In the mean time, try to get some written confirmation from PayPal that your money will be safe while you are resolving this issue - that last thing you want is the money 'disappearing'.
• wtfbitcoinwtf 14y ago
  use bitcoin.
• bilyy 14y ago
  get a lawyer, get an accountant, get incorporated.
• bilyy 14y ago
  get a lawyer, get an accountant, get incorporated.
• anovikov 14y ago
  With any money transfer/payment service, DON'T keep money on it. Withdraw to cash every week, and spend or keep in a bank vault. I normally don't even put real mail address anywhere and ask different people to do ATM withdrawals. I am not doing anything criminal at all, but WHO KNOWS? It's always better to be protected especially when it doesn't cost me anything.
• drucken 14y ago
  Get any job (#), including part-time and temp jobs, and you instantly get a US social security number. That said, Paypal are acting like dicks, as usual, since you do NOT need an SSN to open ordinary bank accounts in the US. (#) You may need written permission from your school to work. Source: http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10181.html http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10181.html
• mikecane 14y ago
  See what this poor guy is going through? There are a lot of bright people here. Sounds like a start-up opportunity for someone. He can't be the only person who winds up in this situation. Solving this could open the door for others who have the skills to make money like he did.
• jonramz 14y ago
  Emmanuel, If you get a job offer, such as a 5-10 hour a week job at your college, you are ALLOWED to apply for a SSN. This is what I would recommend doing if you are just looking for an SSN. But do understand that working without permission is a huge no-no. As far as applying for pre-completion OPT, you could do that... it will take 2-3 months to get approved and you will start using up the 12 months of OPT you get per degree level. If you choose to go this route, make sure you actually register your business with your local clerk's office and report it. One other commmenter mentioned a STEM extension. The one problem with STEM is that you have to work for an e-verified company. I hope I was helpful, I am an international student advisor, but I am not your advisor at your school who I would recommend speaking with.
• georgek1029 14y ago
  Have you tried?: How to Unlock a PayPal Account http://www.ehow.com/how_7657756_unlock-paypal-account.html http://www.ehow.com/how_7657756_unlock-paypal-account.html via @eHow Also, other comments have stated that if the lock msg. came via email it could be a phishing scam. Try to avoid supplying personal info if looks like a suspicious email. More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#Criticism
• rwanghacker 14y ago
  I don't know why people always use Paypal when it's had a history of screwing people over. Use Google checkout for merchants, I've used it and it's really really easy to setup as well as safe.
  • ahoyhere 14y ago
    Google Checkout closed our account because of suspicious attempted purchases of our JavaScript ebook, and kept our money. So… nope.
    • HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
      How did they keep your money? Was it just a small amount that you couldn't be bothered with so you let them have it? (going by how well your products seem to be doing that's unlikely) Otherwise I can't see any legal way that they (or PayPal for that matter) would be able to keep anything beyond their transaction fees.
      • ahoyhere 14y ago
        Simple: they close the account without appeal and there is no way to contact a human. http://slash7.com/articles/2009/3/26/google-is-evil-worse-than-paypal-don-t-use-google-checkout-for-your-business http://slash7.com/articles/2009/3/26/google-is-evil-worse-th...
• picrow 14y ago
  You got what you deserved. Leaving 200k, or any amount of money in paypal? Have you completely lost your mind?
• jaketheawesome 14y ago
  sue the pants off of them bro
• JohnHaugeland 14y ago
  So, I'm going to hold an antithetical position here, because I've been on the other side of this, but rather than panicking and screaming "villain," I took the time to understand what was going on, and I got a reversal. I think you can too, but you'll need to discard the common contempt for PayPal and consider that they might actually have a reason for what they're doing. . "PayPal has closed my account because I don’t have a social security number. It seems like I don’t qualify for one because I’m just “an international student” from Venezuela." I just don't believe this one bit. People from Venezuela do use PayPal quite a bit. More likely what this is actually about is that you haven't done the minimum to do business in America, which PayPal told you up front that they expected you to do. They're not actually able to do business with you, because you haven't taken the correct steps yet. If you say "oh my god they're punishing me for being from the wrong country," you're screwed. But if you figure out the problem, you can fix it. Here's the thing. In America, like in Venezuela and most of the rest of the world, you're expected to pay taxes on money transfer. It's an income stream. The social security number is how Americans track these things in their private lives. Sure, you won't get one because you're not American, but there are foreign equivalents, and they're cheap. We do want to do business with you; you just have to be clean. PayPal can't give you your money until you do what the US Government requires. It would be illegal. It would make them into a criminal money laundering organization. I'm not really sure; I'm no tax attorney. But, I think what you want is an ITIN - an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. They are free, they're available online, and they only take a couple weeks to get. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identification_Number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identificat... http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29 http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpa... http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Obtaining-an-ITIN-from-Abroad http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Obtai... It's very common in the tech community for people to hear "PayPal shut off an account? They're the devil!" But in reality, this is how America keeps its money from flowing to criminal organizations, and PayPal's hands are tied here. If you took the time to talk to them, and said "listen, I didn't know there was a problem, can you help me understand what steps I need to take to get this turned around," it's very likely they'll actually help you, like they helped me. The toxic Redditor behavior is getting out of control. Not every time a large company does something that seems punitive is it actually in the wrong, and in this situation, they're really just following the law. That's expected. That's correct. Also, to put things in perspective, you seem to be frustrated that you have to wait six months to receive five years of an average American's salary. I mean, I don't think this is actually as bad as you're making it out to be, unless you've tied your entire life to taking money from the internet, and can't survive without it. I think maybe you should consider the possibility of asking some of your users for a little spare cash through some crowdfunding site (full disclosure: I work for a crowdfunding site, which is why I'm not naming options right now, because it would be unethical.) And then maybe just try to work with PayPal to fix the problem, instead of begging the internet to try to hammer-lock PayPal into breaking the law for you, because no matter how hard you try, that is never, ever going to work. Try setting up a Google Voice account, and calling them on the phone. If they can hear your fear in your voice, the human will to do good and help will come out, and they will put in effort to assist. I promise. That's just how people work. Also consider getting in contact with the American tax authority, the IRS. It's pretty common for people to hate and fear them, but they're actually wonderful people; their big job is to prevent rich people from cheating the system, and to support poor people, and your story is very sympathetic. Someone from the IRS will, if you just ask, put in hours and hours to try to help you, for free. That's what they do for a living. You can choose to assume everyone's evil and out to get you, or you can choose to assume that you accidentally didn't get the rules right, and that fixing that could change things. Which one of those assumptions you make will very significantly change the outcome you get. There is a reason that people who expect good things from other people generally do well in life. They're able to ask for, and receive, more help. Bad things are fixed more reliably. Et cetera. Just make a human appeal. "I didn't know I screwed up. I still don't know how. I earned this money legitimately, and I need it. Can you help me learn what I did wrong, so that I can fix it?" Give them a chance to be good - maybe even a couple - and they will be good. PayPal is not the evil faceless demon they're made out to be. International payments are complicated, and people from other countries often get domestic law wrong. But I really don't think they want to cheat you; after all, they make their money by helping you do more business. Shutting you off doesn't do them any good. Please consider approaching this like you might have made a mistake, because if it's you, and not them, then fixing it and changing this is entirely inside your power. Taking responsibility means acquiring power. Pointing fingers weakens you. I hope the best for your situation. Please be safe.
• WorldOfHacker 14y ago
  Call Paypal, Don't be stupid to email them, these are useless, when big money is involved. Call them, Talk to them, they will help you out.
• logn 14y ago
  You can get a Taxpayer Id Number in about 10 minutes from the IRS with basically no questions asked (they want to make it easy to pay taxes, even for sketchy situations). The TIN might be a substitute for SSN.
• contentgorilla 14y ago
  http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/ http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/ Give him a call. He has handled cases for me with PayPal. He comes highly recommended, just search his name. He can fix this mess without high expenses.
• fastspring 14y ago
  Perhaps FastSpring would be a good fit for you. Any country the US isn't banned from doing business with is applicable. Users pay in various global currencies and the order pages are translated. I'm the CEO. Funny that you mention Venezuela, my wife just got a grant to do art history research there so I may be visiting soon.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• jc527871 14y ago
  What you could always do is apply for an international business licence that allows you to have a satellite office in the united states. The only problem that you would have with that is you would first need to establish a business in your home country. At that point you would be issued a EID or Tax ID number for your business which would enable the US federal government to take taxes out on any profit that you make with in the USA. Hope this helped and I hope you well in all your future en-devours.
• lectrick 14y ago
  Next time, ask for payment in Bitcoin, and avoid these outdated clumsy troublesome international payment law troubles in their entirety.
• KennethMyers 14y ago
  Former administrator of an international student program, here. If you're an international student, you can work for the school (at least you could at mine). We used to give kids literally 1-hour careers sitting at a desk in our program at minimum wage so they could get social security cards. If you were to furnish Paypal with a valid ss#, could you then get your money? That's a lot of money. If your school won't do it, I'd work on tranfering your 1-20 to another school that will.
• paypalrbeggars 14y ago
  I faced a similar issue in past having a paypal account in UK. I fixed their ass as it was my own money and they had to pay me in 6months and then they closed my account. PAYPAL is actually becoming virtual beggars. My question is simple as below: Why do they let us accept payments as much as we want and when we make withdrawals that time they came to know we have bla bla information missing to be verified??????? Why they can not simply held/limit/block our paypal accounts on the very first transaction we receive so we make arrangements or leave using it??????? I have heard many many complaints where people's accounts got held due to verification pending etc but they all have one COMMON thing they only get their accounts blocked or held when the do withdrawals. Paypal the fucking beggars wait till we make money in our accounts by hard working and once we do withdrawals they make issue's. I believe paypal as a big time FRAUD itself. They should held our account or do not let us use it unless we have all the verifications done......... Do comment guy'ssss with LIKES or DISLIKES