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What I wish I knew before moving to San Francisco
- kaolinite 14y agoPalo Alto and Mountain View are farther away than you think Hm, when I visited it felt like a pretty quick journey - no more than 30 minutes via Caltrain. Perhaps it was just excitement though!
- fossuser 14y agoIt's around 38minutes if you catch the 'bullet' train. I think the regular train is a little over an hour, although this doesn't include the time to actually get to the train station.
- paupino_masano 14y agoYeah - it always takes longer to get to and from the station too. Sometimes it's hard to justify whether it is worth it! Personally I use ZipCar when I need to head down there now (which to be honest is rarely).
- fossuser 14y agoYeah, I'm in palo alto now - but kind of want to move to SF. The crazy rent/finding a place and commute issue serve as a pretty strong resisting force though.
- wpietri 14y agoDepends a lot on when you go and where you're coming from. From my house in the Mission, right now Palo Alto is 30-minute drive that traffic has bumped up to 61 minutes. The next train takes 25 minutes on BART to get to Millbrae plus another 34 minutes on Caltrain with a 19-minute wait in between. That's on a limited; a local train would take even longer. Mountain View is another 10-15 minutes away. Having lived here for quite a while, I think the author has it right: those places feel pretty far.
- gdubs 14y agoAny thoughts on commuting the other direction? I.e., living towards Palo Alto and commuting by train to SOMA?
- Aloisius 14y agoI commuted to Mountain View from San Francisco on Caltrain. It is doable, but it gets old pretty quick. Also those sports fans that the OP say don't exist much? They all take Caltrain to go to the ballpark at peak commute hours during the season. Also, they allow alcohol on Caltrain. Imagine a packed train full of orange and black with lots of alcohol. With the coming electrification of Caltrain in preparation for high speed rail though, hopefully they'll be faster and more frequent service.
- arethuza 14y ago"Imagine a packed train full of orange and black with lots of alcohol." Try the last train out of Glasgow after an Old Firm Derby... :-|
- jrabone 14y agoYou're all Subway Loyal! (we're just jealous, Edinburgh doesn't even get a subway)
- cmccabe 14y agoAlcohol isn't allowed on Caltrain on days when there is a sporting event.
- tymekpavel 14y agoNot true. Alcohol is allowed on CalTrain, and is only prohibited after (i.e. on the return trip from) a sporting event.
- cmccabe 14y agoThanks for the clarification. It looks like they forbid it after 9pm on certain days.
- cpeterso 14y agoThat's why someone created http://isthereagiantsgametoday.com http://isthereagiantsgametoday.com
- jfb 14y agoCaltrain isn't bad headed south in the morning, although getting to Caltrain can be a real PITA, however. Coming north in rush hour, things get uglier. I commuted from the Mission to Cupertino (MV station) for three years on Caltrain. Wouldn't recommend it.
- thinker 14y agoThe express train or a car takes about 45 minutes otherwise its 1hr:15m. 30 minutes is just not possible!
- kaolinite 14y agoFair enough, must have just been enjoying the journey then.
- fzzzy 14y ago30 minutes from sf to pa? Sorry, no. And mountain view is even farther.
- SkyMarshal 14y agoMore like 38m to 1hr, but feels like 30.
- fyvush82 14y agothis is inane
- jinushaun 14y agoWatching sports matters a lot less. Welcome to the West Coast. I went from Seattle to DC and they sure do love their sports out East. Even the nicest restaurant in town has a wall of TVs displaying football. Every restaurant is a sports bar. Regarding the weather, most people don't realise that SF is cold. Sunny, but cold. It's not LA. Bring a sweater.
- dutchbrit 14y agoYou nailed pretty much everything, but shouldn't the Castro bike be missing a saddle? I quite enjoy visiting SF, I actually love the place & diversity. Favourite season has got to be the Indian Summers :).
- bluetidepro 14y agoOP, did you honestly not know how expensive it was, as well as a few of these other points in the article? I would be shocked if that's the case. Most of the items in the post are pretty well-known things about the San Fran area. More or less, the title is a bit of link bait, and I doubt most of you don't already know these things about San Fran (or the bay area, for that matter).
- fearless 14y agoWell, for one, if you knew as much as you say you do about SF you would know nobody calls it "San Fran".
- encoderer 14y agoSo, so true. In my group of east-coast friends and family: Under 50ish: it's San Fran Over: Frisco Locally? Bay Area. The City. Etc.
- scott_s 14y agoI think everyone who lives near a major city calls that city "The City" in everyday conversation. I live near NYC, and I do it in reference to Manhattan. (Less so the other parts of NYC, such as Queens and the Bronx.)
- prodigal_erik 14y agoI've only heard it happens around SF and NYC. Certainly nobody in Redmond was calling Seattle "the city" when I was there.
- scott_s 14y agoI grew up outside of DC, and people would say it there as well.
- vtbassmatt 14y ago
- addlepate 14y agoI visited once in August and my mind was blown at how cold it got in the evening. In the east, August is very hot and humid, gross really. I was told that the SF summer starts in October. I think that was almost a joke, I think it's more like there isn't really a summer in SF, not that there's anything wrong with that.
- DanBC2 14y ago>The most crushing aspect I saved for last though. Taxes here are significantly higher than I’ve experienced anywhere. This means you’re squeezed both on your take home pay and your expenses. ...and some weirdness means they don't spend that money on roads, so the road surfaces are lousy. Maybe I've been spoiled by our great road surfaces in UK.
- lmm 14y agoI'm guessing you never drove through Essex?
- jrabone 14y agoOr Edinburgh. Maybe it's places starting with 'E'...
- petercooper 14y agoTruth. Edinburgh has the worst road surfaces and quality of any British city I've driven in (one of the nicer cities otherwise though!)
- arethuza 14y agoYou do know that we have a lot of cobbled streets here in Edinburgh? ;-) On a serious note - I think the ongoing billion pound Great Tram Fiasco resulted in a lot of streets being left half-repaired for a long time as they were once part of the ever-shrinking tram route. Either that or the council is saving money on road repairs to help pay for it. Or it might be part of the ongoing attempt to discourage driving in the city - which I don't mind as I pretty much walk everywhere!
- roc 14y agoCompared to the US in general? Probably. Though it's surprising that even a temperate US city would have dodgy road surfaces. In the north and northeast, it's at least understandable with our winters and the multiple freeze/thaw cycles we usually see before spring.
- jamesjyu 14y agoVery thorough write-up, and, as a longtime SF resident, I concur most of it is accurate. One thing I want to add is that even if you aren't into startups when you get here, there is a great chance that you'll get swept up into the tech industry by sheer osmosis.
- lominming 14y agoGreat write up! I stay by the south bay but I still find useful information in your article.
- thisisdallas 14y agoThe list: It gets cold at 4pm Neighborhoods define you Rent is insane Cost of living overall is sky high There are crazy and cool things always going on Costumes are a way of life Lots of homeless, beggars and crackheads PBR is the official beverage of San Francisco An extremely pro-dog city The Divisadero is the fog line Palo Alto and Mountain View are farther away than you think The 3 things you need to know about MUNI (Google Maps is never right about what time the bus will come; Half of the buses require you to step down into the steps to get the back door to open; Chinatown is a bottleneck on any route going through it) There are tons of amazing views Startup Central is in SoMa SF is a super fit city If you’re a foodie, welcome to heaven The 3 hour time zone difference is a big deal Watching sports matters a lot less Everything is taken to the extreme You’ll turn into an early adopter even if you weren’t one before All the best tech startups are at their best here Working in tech is the norm, not the exception People love novelty and new experiences Tons of awesome lies just beyond SF’s borders Come with an explorer’s attitude
- robbyking 14y ago> Cost of living overall is sky high. It is, but so are salaries, even in non tech fields. I have a friend in town from Atlanta and I was explaining the benefit of this to her last night: a lot of big-purchase items have retail prices set at a national level, so things like bicycles, television, musical instruments, etc., feel a lot less expensive here than they do in other places.
- DeepDuh 14y agoThanks for all the great info, it's very helpful for someone like me, who's gonna come to the SF area the first time in march (attending / giving a talk at GTC San Jose 2013). One more question, is there something like a weekly pass for the Caltrain, such that I could visit SF in the evenings after conference?
- gergles 14y agoNo, but you can buy an "8-ride ticket" for a slight discount. From San Jose, you'd need a 4-zone ticket, which would cost $64.75 -- this gives you 4 round trips to SF. http://www.caltrain.com/Fares/farechart.html http://www.caltrain.com/Fares/farechart.html (Note: You'll need to acquire and use a Clipper Card to use 8-ride tickets, see https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/index.do https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/index.do - or just go to a Walgreens when you get here and you can buy the card and the 8-ride ticket at the same time.)
- fennecfoxen 14y agoThe 8-ride ticket was recently nerfed+. The discount is smaller, and you have to use all 8 rides within 30 days now instead of 60-90-whateveritwas. So if you're going up and back at least once a week, it's a small savings, but if you miss even one ride then you've probably wiped out several 8-rides' worth of savings. I think they're doing a paper-ticket surcharge anyway so get the Clipper card, and consider paying with Clipper-loaded cash value instead. (+ They were planning to get rid of 8-rides entirely and making it paper-ticket or 25c-discount-for-Clipper in something that amounted to a stealth fare hike - of course they denied that was the main motive).
- hudibras 14y agoMeanwhile, NFL Sundays will never be the same as 10am kickoffs is something I don’t think I’ll ever get used to. Born and raised in Seattle. Some of my fondest memories growing up were rolling out of bed at 9:45 and sitting down to watch some football in my underwear with a bowl of cereal in my lap. (In college, sweatpants replaced underwear and screwdrivers replaced the cereal.) Now I live in D.C. and it's weird that there's nothing on until the afternoon and you can stay up until midnight watching football.
- hardtke 14y agoAll of my friends who have lived on both the east and west coast absolutely prefer west coast football times. I find it difficult to stay up until midnight or 1 AM watching Sunday or Monday night football and make it to work the next day. I feel sorry for those who attend the games. On Sunday mornings, there is no time to kill before the games start, and the local teams usually kick off at 1 PM.
- ahh 14y agoI agree except for Monday/Thursday games--prime time football EST ends up being at 5:30 when I'm still at work or trying to get home. Hate it.
- lflux 14y agoTry being a (American) football fan in Europe. Some games start at 2am, watching the Super Bowl usually involves me taking the next day off work as the game usually ends around 4am.
- jowiar 14y agoOr a (European) football fan on the west coast... Games starting anywhere between 3am and 8 am? Actually, 8am is pretty nice. Wake up in the morning, pull a couple shots of espresso, watch calcio, get on with my Sunday.
- hudibras 14y agoI lived for several years in Japan, too. The games start at 3 a.m. there and go until the early afternoon--but on Monday. So there was a lot of furtive checking scores online around the office and extended lunch breaks when word got out that a game was close late. On the plus side, the Super Bowl is on Monday morning so the day becomes a de facto federal holiday for American expats.
- mendocino 14y ago> I have no idea how anyone who isn’t working in a high tech role that pays an above average salary can live here. I wondered that too. Anyone care to share how to get by with a non-tech salary in the bay area?
- ianstallings 14y agoThe same way they do in every large city - they sacrifice. They get roommates and do more with less. They live in places that are shunned by others because of industry or crime. At least, that's what I see here in NYC. It shocked me how someone could sell fruit and still live here. But they do it.
- charonn0 14y agoWork in residential property management. Either your salary is decent enough for SF (the higher ups), or your rent is free (the front line managers.)
- fennecfoxen 14y ago1. You live somewhere defective. Now, "defective" is relative and can simply mean "inconvenient" (looong commutes) or it can be an area that's kinda uncool, ugly, subject to crime, constantly overcast, devoid of the interesting stores, subject to drive-by mariachi music attacks, etc. 2. Roommates. You live with someone else. 3. You were grandfathered in, either by owning property or by having a lease which (as a result of city law) essentially grants you immunity to rising rents. Lucky you.
- drusenko 14y agoRent control. A lot of people are living/stuck in apartments and paying much, much less in rent. The high rent only applies to new people moving in, and I'd suspect that less new non-tech people are moving in these days.
- mej10 14y agoHow is rent control like that legal?
- ianstallings 14y agoExcept for the weather that sounds almost exactly like my life here in Brooklyn. I gotta get out west.
- mdanger 14y agoI haven't been here for very long, but I can't say it's a "common sight" to see flip phones at coffee shops. :) On a more serious note, I have to agree with the bit about being a "pro-dog" city. I am constantly amazed at the number of dogs on the Muni, dogs in parks, dogs tied up outside of stores/restaurants, etc.
- sharkweek 14y agoSeattle is the same way -- there are more dogs in the city than children -- http://www.seattlemag.com/article/seattles-dog-obsession http://www.seattlemag.com/article/seattles-dog-obsession
- clauretano 14y agoand unlike Portland, dogs are allowed on buses in Seattle -- http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/how-to-ride/animals.html http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/how-to-ride/animals.htm... (not on Sound Transit express buses or Link light rail though)
- sharkweek 14y agowe have regular dog attendance at work -- I think as long as allergies are respected, it makes for a really fun work environment
- asveikau 14y agoI've lived in both places. Back in college I also lived with someone who was allergic. That changes my reaction a bit, I think. It makes the people who bring their dogs on transit, to the bar or to the supermarket look like jerks.
- geebee 14y agoHaving kids has also changed my perspective on this. I've been taking my kids to a sports field near a playground for the past few years, and so far, the incidence of off leash dogs has been 100%, even though there is a dedicated off leash space right next door. Most of the dogs have been very friendly, but occasionally you do get an unknown very large and powerful off leash dog bounding up to a 3 foot tall kid. This is all next to a well posted sign about leash laws, though I have never seen any enforcement. I've heard this is frustrating for other dog owners as well. There are a lot of people whose dogs need to be socialized better and they try to keep them on leash, and it's pretty much impossible to go to an open space without off leash dogs. I'm still 100% in favor of creating a lot of excellent off leash areas, and most dog owners are considerate. But it does frustrate me that enforcement is so lax that there is pretty much nowhere in SF that isn't used as an off leash area. BTW, if you're moving to SF, "dog wars" are definitely something you'll get used to. Lots of emotion in SF around this one.
- buf 14y agoI wrote a blog with pretty much the same feelings a couple days ago (Although slightly more cussing): http://bufordtaylor.com/post/40632724667/on-san-francisco http://bufordtaylor.com/post/40632724667/on-san-francisco Love this town.
- zippy 14y ago"Meanwhile, here, no matter what you’re doing, those you meet will almost always be in finance or startups." Well, except for the taxi drivers, the restaurant workers, the police, the teachers, the students, the grocers, the bike messengers, the lawyers, the house cleaners, the fire fighters, the ...
- mojowo11 14y agoThis whole article is written very clearly with a very specific audience in mind. "You will be come an early adopter!" Well, maybe. I guess if you work in tech and know people who work in tech, yes. But as you noted, there are plenty of people who don't.
- zippy 14y agoI think the implication from the original was that you don't really meet the other people, in that sure, you encounter them, but they somehow don't matter or are less interesting. I don't think the poster meant that, so I wanted to call it out to encourage us techies to see that we are part of a larger culture and context. We depend on a hell of a lot of people, and a lot of infrastructure that's not just for us, but keeps the entire city going.
- paulgb 14y agoI know it's just one anecdote, but a Subway employee in SOMA once asked me if I knew anyone that would hire him as a DBA. The feeling in SF is that the tech world is inescapable, which some people seem to like.
- aantix 14y agoI moved to SF two years ago. Since then I've had a discussion with the cashier at Taco Bell about the differences in the way browsers render on different mobile OS's. Had a discussion with a banker that learned Ruby to help with some of his reporting... Tech is everywhere here.
- camthesixth 14y ago
- jrockway 14y agoManhattan is a lot more expensive than San Francisco. Even Brooklyn is more expensive, just not by much.
- potatolicious 14y agoMoved from SF to Manhattan 6 months ago, this characterization is no longer entirely accurate. Manhattan now is barely more expensive than SF, and most of SF is more expensive than most of Brooklyn. People aren't really aware of just how fast cost of living is going up in SF. Manhattan averaged, what, 5-6% year over year, and we think that's high. Some neighborhoods in SF have experienced >100% YoY rent growth, but more typically in the 30-50% range (seriously!). It's really insane out there, to an extent most people outside of SF don't know. Right now in any of the "cool" neighborhoods of SF a studio would be cost comparable to one in the Upper East Side or Chelsea, though you'd probably get a bit more space for your money (not by that much though). It'll be a lot more expensive than any of the gentrifying Brooklyn neighborhoods, but probably slightly cheaper than the real gentrified bastions like Park Slope or Dumbo. SF is fucking nuts, that's all I can say.
- mtalantikite 14y agoIt'll be interesting to see the numbers after this boom, SF certainly is getting a lot more expensive. Latest figures though did put the order: Manhattan, Brooklyn, Honolulu, and then SF: http://gothamist.com/2012/09/01/manhattan_and_brooklyn_are_the_two.php http://gothamist.com/2012/09/01/manhattan_and_brooklyn_are_t...
- JabavuAdams 14y agoI'm living in Toronto, Canada, and the SF crack-head thing is always a shock. If I'm in SF, it's for conferences and it's always strange that literally one block away from our expensive hotel, there are zombies shambling about -- and this is totally normal! For those who know Toronto: it's like you're in Yorkdale, you walk one block and you're in the worst part of Parkdale. The other odd thing is that I seem to pay about the same in taxes, given the author's figures.
- craigyk 14y agoMust be a west coast thing. One of the first things I noticed when I visited Vancouver for the first time was how many crackheads were just sitting about, and how friendly they were when asking for directions.
- mcrider 14y agoBut what you say shouldn't be generalized to Canada; Gastown, which is probably the heart of Vancouver's tech scene, is spitting distance from the poorest postal code in Canada. Homeless people migrate to places like Vancouver and San Fran for their temperate winters and progressive attitudes.
- run4yourlives 14y agoIt's more a west coast thing. I grew up in Toronto and I can tell you the same thing shocked me about moving to Vancouver. Crackheads/street people don't like to freeze, so they move to the warmth is. I'd imagine this is as true in the US as it is in Canada.
- JabavuAdams 14y agoGood point! I'd heard about this, but didn't realize the significance. So my dream of becoming a homeless programmer in Hawaii is still alive!
- kafkaesque 14y agoThis is anecdotal, so I guess you can take it with a grain of salt. But as someone from Vancouver who has visited SF quite a bit, SF always seemed to have more homelessness (it does have a warmer climate than Van) and more parts that smelled really bad. I might be desensitised to it already, though. Also, throughout my time living in Vancouver, I've never witnessed a robbery/theft/crime, whereas visiting SF last month I witnessed a random theft from a homeless at a Walgreens and they were really abusive towards him. What I'm saying is, it still feels like a different country with a different culture, instead of it only being a west coast thing.
- toastedzergling 14y agoDoes anyone have the time to do a similar writeup for the tech scene in and around LA? I'm probably going to be doing the move from Boston-LA myself in just a few months.
- flexxaeon 14y agoPerhaps you should write that after you make the move. :) And even then it would be difficult. As you likely already know, one thing sure to be on that list is "have a car". Which stems from the reason making such a list would be difficult. LA is so spread apart, what's true for someone on the westside isn't gonna ring as true for someone downtown, to south bay, to OC/irvine (if we're even counting OC/irvine). lots of tech companies here in LA but due to the lay of the land and 30 mile commutes, they don't mingle as much.
- pmikesell 14y agoI moved from Seattle to SF and one big difference I noticed is that people are waaay friendlier here in SF than they were in Seattle. It's so much easier to get to know new people here. I think part of the reason for that is that almost nobody in SF is actually from SF. Everybody you meet grew up somewhere else, so people seem much more open to getting to know new folks. This is particularly true as a guy trying to meet girls. "Seattle Freeze" is a real thing.
- nerdfiles 14y agoI left a note and a dollar to a street violinist who was playing Dark Side of the Moon at MUNI / Bart. The note read: "Where is your http://gittip.com http://gittip.com URL?"
- run4yourlives 14y agoThis seems more of a "West Coast vs. East Coast" article than it is a "San Fran" article. For the most part, the author is highlighting the differences that anybody living on the East Coast will experience in moving to one of the western coastal cities, save perhaps LA, which as everyone already knows is its own little planet. Most of these "hints" hold true for San Diego, San Fran, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver. They are all in the same vibe the way Philly, New York, Boston, and Toronto are "the same vibe".
- softbuilder 14y agoYou lost credibility with me by repeated use of the vulgar "San Fran". It's THE CITY. :)
- run4yourlives 14y agoWhat part of the Mission do you live in?
- scorpion032 14y agoDolores.
- untog 14y agoSan Diego, THE CITY, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver Yep, I can see how that would work.
- samstave 14y ago:) upvote for not having LA in that reply.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- kjackson2012 14y agoYes, no one from the Bay Area refers to San Francisco as "San Fran". Even worse is when people refer to it as "Frisco". It's either SF or "The City".
- tesmar2 14y agoMarin headlands is one of the most beautiful places to go when you are there. For someone from the east coast, walking along those dramatic cliffs was very exciting. My wife and I imagined we were in Scotland!
- dilap 14y agoComing from Oregon, PBR has a surprisingly low profile -- Tecate seems more like the "it" beer in SF. Maybe a neighborhood thing. (Also Fernet, which I'd never heard of before -- it's sort of like a grown-up's Jaëger.)
- EToS 14y agoSpent some time in SF after PyCon last year.. a good pro tip is dont attempt to walk home if you live in the hills! :) Really great experience.
- rootedbox 14y agoWonders how anyone can live without being in the tech industry... then chooses not to buy local.. You are making things a lot harder on the families of SF that have been here for a long time by not shopping local.. please think of that next time you order on amazon from your soma office.
- jgmmo 14y agoBuy local is the biggest crock (with one exception: if you honestly and truly believe the food is better quality). It causes a net loss for society. Consumers can't purchase as many goods, and the goods being purchased are not being produced as efficiently as the 'non-locals' version. Which means your groceries cost more every week then they would have otherwise. http://mises.org/daily/5283/The-BuyLocal-Canard http://mises.org/daily/5283/The-BuyLocal-Canard
- dubfan 14y agoAh, a Mises Institute article, definitely a non-biased source not trying to push a certain socioeconomic agenda. </sarcasm>
- jgmmo 14y agoAh, a personal attack against the organization whom hosts the article and yet complete avoidance of any consideration of the points made in the article, so refreshing. </sarcasm>
- meh01 14y agoThe problem is that the article isn't worth even reading because of the source. It's like linking to the AEI or Heritage Foundation or some US Chamber of Commerce stuff. You know what you're going to get, and there's no point wasting cycles.
- msellout 14y agoRegardless of the source (I didn't read it), there are some good arguments for buying non-local, non-organic being better for the environment. Efficient farms use less land to produce the same amount of food. Taxing carbon and pollution appropriately would allow lowest price to correctly indicate what is best for society, including environmental concerns.
- driverdan 14y agoI considered moving to SF but chose Austin instead. I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government and ridiculously high taxes. Some of the same reasons I left NY. You can do tech anywhere. You do not need to live in the bay area. If you really like the city pick a place (like Austin) with inexpensive direct flights and go a few times a month. You'll still save money.
- jasonshen 14y agoYou CAN do tech anywhere, just as you CAN be a banker outside of NYC or an actor outside of LA. Doesn't mean it's the most efficient or effective way. I have lots of respect for people who choose to live in other parts of the world but to suggest that there's not much difference between living in SF or Austin for someone interested in starting or working for a successful technology firm is inaccurate. I don't count freelance development as "doing tech" as it's equivalent to being a "day-trader" vs banker or "youtube star" vs actor.
- aliston 14y ago^This. I've lived in both SF and Austin. Austin is a bad ass city. In terms of quality of life, as a young and single male, it is a complete and total no brainer that Austin is better than SF. Better nightlife, more attractive women, cheaper cost of living, less bums, more sunlight, better weather (if you prefer hot to cold), better urban/outdoor balance... BUT, in terms of the startup scene, SF is in another league. Austin has some successful startups, but they seem to be largely enterprise focused. It's going to be a long time before you see a Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Yelp, Dropbox etc. founded here. If you're doing a startup, particularly in the consumer space, SF is the place to be.
- w1ntermute 14y agoAre the women really more attractive in Austin? One of the things mentioned in the article is that in SF, people are in shape. How are things in Austin?
- guyzero 14y agoOn it getting cold at 4 PM, I quote the estimable "30 Rock": "Can’t hack it in the big city? Gonna move to the Bay Area now, pretend that was your dream the whole time? Have fun always carrying a light sweater."
- bherms 14y agoI hate that everyone calls the weather here amazing. Being cold all but maybe 30-40 days a year is not incredible weather, especially factoring in fog.
- dominostars 14y agoI'll be the first to complain about San Francisco weather, but the weather in the peninsula and south bay is nothing short of amazing.
- erohead 14y agoPalo Alto is the answer to the weather. Consistently awesome compared to the city.
- stephencanon 14y agoYup. South of Palo Alto it gets too hot in the summer. Farther north it gets foggy and cold too often. Palo Alto and Menlo Park have it just right.
- brigade 14y agoThere's like, one week a year where it's in the 80's. Are you from Britain?
- stephencanon 14y agoI worked in Cupertino for 5 years; just two towns south of Palo Alto it is frequently 90+ in the summer (and as you go through San Jose it gets even hotter). At home in Menlo Park and Palo Alto it was consistently ~10 degrees colder.
- blibble 14y agoare those rental prices really per quarter? if so they're making central London look exorbitant, I have friends paying that per month for studio flats!
- fzzzy 14y agoNo, I think they must mean that was the average rent per month during that quarter.
- smartician 14y agoThey're monthly rents, sampled in the respective time spans.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- drallison 14y agoNot mentioned is one of the great San Francisco treats: THE EXPLORATORIUM. http://www.exploratorium.edu http://www.exploratorium.edu. The Exploratorium is moving in April from the old facility near the Palace of Fine Arts to a more central location on the waterfront. While it's a great place for family and kids, it's also a great place for the rest of us. And, in the new location there will be more events like the popular date night "after dark" gatherings. And if you've got spare cash, donations are always welcome.
- gambiting 14y agoOh US and your complaining about taxes. "You leave with ONLY 65% of your income after paying taxes". In Denmark you pay 60% in taxes, so you leave with 40% of your income in your pocket. And petrol is now more than $10/US gallon.
- jacoblyles 14y agoHow healthy is the angel funding scene in Denmark? The western European model seems great if you want a life safely doing what has always been done.
- mjn 14y agoDepends strongly on the area, with probably more focus than in the U.S. on whether the company will produce either scientific or cultural innovation in addition to profits, because many of the funds come from nonprofits or state initiatives. There is a lot of seed funding for companies that can show they'll produce a scientific impact, through either state-funded "research commercialization" grants (where a company will propose to turn academic research into a product), or through quasi-charitable private initiatives like http://www.novo.dk/composite-364.htm http://www.novo.dk/composite-364.htm There is also a ton of arts funding, much larger than in the U.S. on a per-capita basis, to the extent that it bleeds over into funding tech companies too. For example, Playdead (makers of Limbo) got their initial ~$150k in funding from the Danish Film Institute, and I know two founders with seed funding from the Nordic Game Program.
- meh01 14y agoYay for generalization!
- eli_gottlieb 14y agoThe western European model seems great if you want a life safely doing what has always been done. And the American model seems great if you're part of the small percentage who are not merely differently but excellently different. Further problem: if everyone's special, no-one is.
- deleted 14y ago
- sakopov 14y agoIn my opinion the high cost of living kills everything else on that list. I'd much rather have a comfortable living, travel the world and be optimistic that i will have no problems buying a nice house for me and my spouse/family if i need to/should i want to. I don't really see this possible based on what i hear from a couple of friends living and working there. Both consumed by their tech jobs, some cool things to do every once in a while when they're not slaving away for a startup. I guess people have different priorities. All this stuff is great until you're in mid 50s and you realize your less-than-comfortable living is leaving you with a less-than-comfortable retirement.
- noname123 14y agoJust curious, in your opinion, what should be the net worth target for people making regular tech income in their 30's, 40's and 50's if they want to eek out comfortable living in retirement, inflation-adjusted?
- bherms 14y agoNot my opinion, but I once read somewhere that you should aim for a savings (+investments) of 1x salary by 30, 5x by 40, 10+x by 50.
- itsybitsycoder 14y agoBased on the 10x at 50 multiplier, I'm guessing that's for retirement savings/investments alone, not a net worth target. (It makes a big difference if you're planning on making any other big expenditures -- down payment on a house, helping the kids with college, etc.)
- whichdan 14y agoSo someone with 50k/yr of expenses should be making 100k, 250k, and 500k respectively?
- bherms 14y ago
- fourstar 14y ago> Pro Tip: Oakland gets a bad rap, but there’s tons of great concerts and other events there worth checking out. Or, you know, the multitude of world-class restaurants and great bars such as: Chez Panisse, Gather, Boot & Shoe, Cafe Van Kleef, Claremont, Heart & Dagger, etc.
- tomhschmidt 14y ago? Chez Panisse and Gather are in Berkeley.
- fourstar 14y agoI'm from Berkeley. Had to sneak those in there for anyone actually interested in venturing out to the east bay ;)
- mcantelon 14y agoPBR? Ew.
- coloneltcb 14y agoAs a San Francisco native, I can say that this is the single best post of its kind that I have ever read. I wouldn't change a thing, except to add the pro tip that you should never, under any circumstances, call it "San Fran".
- dan_yall 14y agoWhat about "Frisco"?
- fennecfoxen 14y agoAlternatively, call it San Fran all the time to annoy everyone. Also, 'Frisco'. Frisco frisco crisco frisco.
- droz 14y agoI was amused by point "SF is a super fit city." As someone who lives in Boulder, CO and frequently visits SF, I feel like SF has a lot of out of shape people compared to Boulder. Guess it's all relative.
- mstefanko 14y agohaha totally is. I moved to SF from Pittsburgh, a home of cold winters, hot summers, and greasy foods. I felt like I didn't see an obese person for the first 6 months of living here, but it was all relative to what I was used to seeing on a regular basis.
- caniszczyk 14y agoSame here... coming from Austin... it's hilarious what people call "fit" over here... all I see is facial hair and moobs
- jbwyme 14y agoOne of the biggest shocks to me when moving to the Bay Area is the difference in social norms and acceptable behavior. I grew up in Texas and went to college on the east coast. For the first few months after moving out here I was in awe by some of the things people would do and thought were acceptable. In fact I'm still in shock by many of these things but used to them by now. From some of the things I've seen managers do in regards to relationships with their employees and behavior at office parties to an entire section at AT&T park cheering when an opposing pitcher gets hurt and pulled. Furthermore I also found it much harder to communicate appropriately as social cues seem a bit different. I have at many times found myself in a conversation (or lack there of) filled with awkward silence. edit: grammatical correction
- noname123 14y agoI found that people from the west coast, esp. LA and SF are more happy-go-lucky types - meaning that if you were to meet a girl at a party or a new bro, the person of interest might be very enthusiastic or affectionate - "leading on" that there's specific chemistry between you or that person; when in fact that person is just very spontaneous, in the sense of being open and fun in any social situation. This is a bit different from the Northeast Coast frigid weather which causes most people to be irritated and singular-minded on roads/public transports, but causes people to find "cuddle-buddies" during the winter; once you make a friend, that friend becomes a best friend. I used to be upset about this. But now I'm more understanding that for some people, they don't necessarily value their individual friendships as they value their own belonging/membership in a clique (SF vegan-foodie who works in SOMA startup who rides single-fixed gear) and also the necessity of forging temporary social/professional alliances in an transient yuppie community where most people moved to for professional advancement (marketing guys from frattier backgrounds fraternizing with engineers with more diverse backgrounds to advance everyone's careers).
- da02 14y agoCan you provide some examples of this culture shock? It sounds fascinating.
- tomblomfield 14y agoSF is a great city - I lived there for 3 or 4 months. Coming from London, the thing I really missed was the late-night club & music scene. Trying to find anything happening past 1am, especially on a weeknight, is a non-starter.
- redwood 14y agoIt is tough, indeed. There's an underground scene that's a hard nut to crack, but it's out there. The burning man community and others ensure that
- meej 14y agoSF is surprisingly hostile to late night music for a city of its size. The DNA Lounge blog is a good window into what it's like to own a club in SF. Here's a classic post where jwz compares SF to Austin after attending SXSW for the first time: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2009/03/16.html http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2009/03/16.html
- oeufsaujambon 14y agoThis is by far my biggest gripe with SF .Sometimes I want to carouse until 4am and follow that up Korean food. Unfortunately, that's impossible San Frisco.
- kjackson2012 14y agoI was getting ready to roll up my sleeves and begin critiquing on how it was wrong (how could a kid who has been here 9 months know anything blah blah blah), but this is actually a very excellent article. He pretty much hits it right on the head, and I've lived in this area for 15 years now. Great post!
- raldi 14y agoIt gets cold at night not because of fog, but because of lack of humidity. Same reason the desert is like that. Same reason the surface of the moon is 107°C during the day and -153°C at night.
- troels 14y agoHow can it be foggy and lack humidity?
- raldi 14y agoWho said both happen at the same time?
- gdubs 14y agoNot my area of expertise, but from my understanding fog is a "local" phenomena, not large enough to dramatically effect temperatures the way that atmospheric pressure / humidity can.
- stevewilhelm 14y agoMost of the bay area is chaparral. The Central Valley is generally ten to twenty degrees hotter than the coastal areas during the summer. The hot air literally sucks the cold wet marine air inland right across SF during most summer days. That is why the best SF weather is early spring and late fall when the temperature difference between the Central Valley and the SF Bay Area is minimal, and their is much less fog. When the summer sun goes down, the fog evaporates in the dry air and the temperature drops.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- b3b0p 14y agoI was debating moving there. Instead I moved to Tulsa, OK. It had a similar feel to Palo Alto for me. At least in the area I live now. In fact, the biking/walking seems to be slightly better. It feels like the beginnings of a tech and startup community are forming and I am kind of hoping I can be a big contributor to that. The city is investing massively in the area to promote tech and startups. And the biggest factor for me was cost of living. I own for (far) less than 1 bedroom rent in Palo Alto or San Francisco (with my 20% down payment of course): 2000 sq/ft 3 story condo on the river for less than a grand a month. I pretty much went months without using my car too, walking and biking only.
- xxpor 14y agoOTOH, the politics of OK suck, and so do the alcohol laws.
- mcherm 14y agoI have absolutely no interest in moving to San Francisco, and I only happened to glance at this article because it was so highly voted on Hacker News. Boy am I glad I did. I still don't care about living in San Francisco, but I am in awe of your amazing blog-writing skills. This is not a book or newspaper article: it falls solidly within the typical boundaries of a blog article, talking about own experiences and opinions on a matter of interest to him and his neighbors. But so WELL written! The amount of detail, the little touches like pictures that reflect, illustrate, and even extend each point being made... I could only aspire to someday be able to write like this. I've bookmarked it under "examples of great journalism" as an exemplar of the "blog post" writing style. Thank you for writing this and spending the time (it must have taken a good deal of time) to make the presentation so polished.
- jes5199 14y agoHere's one that I don't see discussed much: The tech meetup culture isn't that great. In other cities with moderately sized tech communities (Seattle, Portland, Austin...) the user group communities are a strong social force - it's how people collaborate, and how they share skill and technology news. In SF, people are too busy working late at their well-funded post-startup jobs to go hang out and talk about code as a craft. So everything is siloed by company, and you get the Google Way and the Apple Way and whatever from the various places that people worked together, and knowledge only moves as quickly as people can get poached from one company and brought into another.
- bherms 14y agoAlso meetups here suck because most of the people in the tech scene aren't really that fun to be around. I've been to a few launches and it was nothing but the following: 1) people inflating their egos talking about worthless metrics, how many exits they've been a part of, and how what they're doing now is changing the world (guess what, it's not), 2) people just looking to be a part of the "it" crowd of SV, 3) people looking to find some engineer dumb enough to be their tech guy and execute the idea they have for a paltry equity stake.
- lnanek2 14y agoI've definitely noticed that. It's strange going from talking to a bunch of Java meetup people who are well versed in the history of the language and know how Spring and dependency injection took Java by storm and a ton of other things like that - to talking to Googlers who often don't even know what it is, don't know the benefits, and fight to keep it out of projects.
- samstave 14y agoThere used to be very regular meetups - like SFBeta, SVASE meetups, etc. These were actually lively before YC got huge - I believe that this is in part YCs fault in that people are really focued on getting into YC, as opposed to the meetup networking that people went after. It would be great if YC threw a monthly meetup at 111 Minna.
- crusso 14y agoSF is nice. I spent time living in different areas along the peninsula, but definitely enjoyed living more toward the south, like in Mountain View or Sunnyvale. Easy access to SF or SJ. Lower rent. Easier access to good hiking at Rancho San Antonio, easy drive to Santa Cruz.
- redwood 14y agoThe only critique I have: PBR is the hipster brew of choice everywhere especially here in NYC and up in Portland... BUT in SF there is a healthy dose of Tecate as well. In fact what sets SF hipsters apart from their peers is that they drink Tecate (and modelo). Anyway I'd call it a Tecate town. Really miss the stuff here in NYC... $2 at delirium, those were the days *edit: with lime!!
- natrius 14y agoI'm sure there are plenty of regional PBR equivalents. In Austin, it's Lone Star. I rarely see PBR, but I see plenty of hipsters.
- callmeed 14y agoI'm curious: do families usually move out of the city and down into the Valley? (there are 5 of us and generally prefer a 3-4 bedroom house).
- cpeterso 14y agoYes. SF is not a very family-friendly city: the cost of living is high, transportation can be difficult, the schools are not great, and there are many homeless people and "crazies". Apparently, San Francisco has the lowest percentage (13%) of children of any major city in the country. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/families-flee-san-francisco_n_1335639.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/families-flee-san-f...
- callmeed 14y agoInteresting. Thanks for that.
- rdl 14y agoThe really big point to consider, IMO, is within SFBA -- there are huge differences among SF, Peninsula, and East Bay, and variations within each of those as well. I personally put SF below many other places in the US to live, but really like the Peninsula -- the big issues being crazy California-level politics/taxes/regulations and really high cost of living (mainly, housing and tax; fixing zoning issues would bring down housing prices, and fixing prop 13). It's like comparing West Texas and Austin.
- Cl4rity 14y agoWell, of course it's going to come as a big shock coming from Boston, because I don't consider Boston to be a "big city." I was born and raised in Los Angeles, I lived in San Francisco for a while, and now I live in New York City--Brooklyn, specifically. Much of what you said applies to New York, too. I don't agree with the weather thing. I've been to Boston where it was 60 during the day and in the low 30s at night, and San Francisco will never, ever get as cold as Boston does during the winter. Hell, it doesn't even really snow in SF except for a few weird flukes in the past. Rent, cost of living, etc. is the same in NYC, too, which is fast becoming a startup city.
- muzzamike 14y agoI find it interesting that Boston often gets the rub of being a "small city". It certainly is when compared to New York or LA, but when looking at the metro area it's on par with San Francisco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistica... Not that there's anything wrong with being a small city!
- mtalantikite 14y agoI think it's because most people don't really consider the metropolitan area to have anything to do with the city itself. For New York, parts of Jersey and Connecticut count as the metropolitan area, but you'd never say New York and mean New Haven. With that in mind, Boston is 600k or so people, which is tiny in city terms.
- ghc 14y agoThat has nothing to do with the actual size of Boston. That's a political artifact more than anything else, as neighborhoods around Boston didn't want to get annexed around the turn of the century. Boston's continuous urban population, which includes Cambridge, Brookline, etc. is over 4 million. Having lived in Atlanta, Boston is a much bigger city despite Atlanta having a population of 4 million within it's proper city limits. That's why you never use city population over metro area or continuous urban population statistics to determine actual city size.
- guard-of-terra 14y agoFor some reason I only got to read the article after I null-routed r-login.wordpress.com.
- simoneau 14y agoI like Paul Graham's comparison of cities, "you should be smarter" vs "you should live better" vs ...: http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html
- DigitalJack 14y agoI saw PBR in wholefoods the other day here in Portland, OR. I was kind of shocked. I always considered PBR to be on par with Milwaukee's Best... In other words, nasty cheap beer that people only drink to get drunk. So I'm wrong?
- justin 14y agoI thought most of the article was pretty spot on, except for the PBR being the drink of SF. PBR is all over hipster bars in the Mission, but there are plenty of places where you can't get it (most bars in the rest of the city). The true drink of SF in my opinion is Fernet, which is heavily consumed by long time San Franciscans. Fernet has a long history in the Bay Area (SF is even listed in the Wikipedia page on Fernet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernet), and surprisingly it is stocked in almost every bar. I've personally had it in everywhere from the Kabuki movie theatre to bars in North Beach to the Mission. TLDR: Fernet is the drink of SF.
- geebee 14y agoFernet? Wow, never heard of it. Sounds kinda cool. If we're talking beer, I'd say Anchor Steam is the drink of SF.
- nwenzel 14y agoAs for the high cost of living, try looking at it from a different angle. Instead of thinking about how much more you can get for your money elsewhere, ask why are all those other places worth so much less. I'm not saying the math adds up to you needing to move to SF, NY, Boston, or other city. But this post helps explain why SF is valued so highly by the many people who choose to live in here.
- nikunjk 14y agoI don't think I have head-nodded as much on any other article. Thanks for writing this up!
- umangjaipuria 14y agoHope I'm not repeating something already mentioned in this large discussion, but here's another thing to add to that list: Once you live in San Francisco for a few years, it will become difficult to move elsewhere. You get used to all the cons mentioned. You will start loving running in the 6pm chill, the cultural diversity and the intellectual similarity, the feeling of living in slightly in the future compared to the rest of the world...
- muhacks 14y agodo415.com is also a solid site for finding stuff to do.
- harel 14y agoI used to live in San Francisco for about 4 years (1998 to 2002) and for a few months over those 4 years I lived south and north of the city. I say this very literally, that I rather be homeless in San Francisco than live anywhere around it. Its an amazing city that has given me a lot (and taken a lot in a fair trade). The most amazing aspect of this city, in my opinion, is that its where all the American 'rejects' end up in. In those years the start up scene was different than today and not everybody around you was in a start up. But most of those who were not native and not in a start up were those that didn't quite fit in in their home state and though they'd find acceptance in San Francisco. Most of them did. Its probably one of the most tolerant city in the States where most people there have a passport and are well travelled. Yes its expensive, but you do get what you pay for. The same applies to any big city like London, New York, Tel Aviv etc. Although I'm no longer a local, here are a few culinary pro tips: if you are a sushi lover, you must visit Ebisu in the Sunset (http://www.ebisusushi.com http://www.ebisusushi.com). If you fancy a good pint of Guinness, Oreily's pub in North Beach is a must (and they make a beef and Guinness soup that is just insane).
- combataircraft 14y agoThe streets smell pie and marijuana. Tenderloin is the shittiest places I've ever seen. Local poor people stick on tourists and try to rip you off. Go one street below of Market, you'll see junkies injecting heroin to their arms. There is no street that can be called as "the heart of the downtown". Cafes get close on 6 or 7pm. The ocean is fucked up by some industrial shit. and the people think "it's ok". The transportation is fucked up. Streets are big and straight. Nothing smells historical or romantic. Rents are crazy. I saw an apartment in a shitty neighboorhood for 1450$ per month and I even don't leave a dog in that kind of small and unhealthy place with no sunlight! Bay Area is fucking lame.
- brooksbp 14y ago"To put it all in perspective, I used to take home about 75% of my pay in Boston and here it’s only 65%." Is this because of state income tax?
- autarch 14y agoPro tip: saying "pro tip" sounds kind of douchey. Try something else.
- cpeterso 14y agoThis. (though I hate "this" even more than "pro-tip")
- combataircraft 14y agoI really envy the people who think "SF is amazing!!!" If SF is amazing, what the hell is Rome? New York? Taipei? Istanbul? Tokyo? Paris? San Francisco is the biggest village of US.
- meh01 14y agoWhile I agree with you in that San Francisco is nowhere near "global city" status (I don't know what people are thinking when they say stuff like this), unfortunately this is where most of the tech world is. So you're going to get articles like this. The funny thing is, the food here really isn't that great, the coffee is also average at best, but these are all relative to the rest of the US.
- zem 14y agothe "distance from mountain view" was spot on. when i moved here to work for google, i was debating between living in the city and commuting, or living in mountain view and going up to the city to do stuff. thankfully, i'd spent nine months living in mountain view a few years ago, and knew that, realistically "going up to the city" would never happen (i don't drive); if i wanted to be in san francisco after work i pretty much had to live there. so far, while the commute is a bit painful (45 minutes going to work, 70-90 coming back), i have no regrets about deciding to live in sf.
- beatpanda 14y agoY'all are trippin about the cost of living. I make $26,000 a year and do great in San Francisco. You can be lazy or live cheap here, but you can't do both.
- kevingadd 14y agoWhere in San Francisco? It's my understanding that rent continues to go up in basically every part of the city, and it's even incredibly expensive outside the city.
- beatpanda 14y agoNo. The rent on new leases is going up, due to low supply and high demand, but also extremely low turnover. So people generally look for rooms, not full apartments. In this way, housing is regulated in SF through social factors on the low end (i.e. whether your personality and your interests bring something positive to a household), and price on the high end. I pay $680 a month for my room in the heart of the Mission, mainly because I'm an open-minded guy, and my roommates needed someone tolerant, willing to abide by certain rules (in my case, no meat in the house) and conscientious about shared space, which is more rare than you'd think. If you're single and you feel the need to rent your own apartment, I just can't relate to you. I don't get it. I feel like living down the peninsula is a better option for people who feel like they need that much personal space.
- tlrobinson 14y agoHow old are you? I lived on roughly the same salary the first year I lived in SF. I was 24 at the time, and it was fine because I was working non-stop and didn't have much of a life, but I wouldn't want to do it again for long periods of time.
- beatpanda 14y agoI'm 24 and don't work most of the time, hence the lower salary, and I still manage to go out a lot and enjoy the city. There's just so much free or cheap entertainment here, you don't need a car, and it's usually sunny enough that if you get bored, just walking around is a pretty viable option. Living here doesn't have to be expensive, people just make it that way.
- VonGuard 14y agoThe dood nails it. If you're considering moving to the Bay Area, read this, every word of it. Very well done.
- nhangen 14y agoCan someone please explain to me why PBR is so popular in SF? I really want to know. How did it become trendy to drink bottom-rung beer?
- rachelbythebay 14y agoAny time I see something like this, I always think about writing a counterpoint. Then I realize it's been done by someone else. http://al3x.net/2009/10/04/so-youre-moving-to-san-francisco.html http://al3x.net/2009/10/04/so-youre-moving-to-san-francisco....
- prlin 14y agoIt's still accurate after 3 years?
- jimmyhchan 14y agoPrep for an earthquake. This is not techy but very necessary.
- lowglow 14y agoI might be a little late to the party, but if you're in San Francisco or looking to move here, you should really attend a San Francisco Hacker News event. We throw movies, meetups, poker games, dinners, and soon to be hackathons. Visit us at http://sfhackernews.com/ http://sfhackernews.com/ We'd love to meet you!
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- hackintosher 14y agoJust want to say thanks, this helps a lot since I'm in the process of migrating there right now.
- fosk 14y agoIf you are more interested in the economical aspect, or you're an entrepreneur who wants to move to SF, this is how me and my co-founders lived with 1.1k/month in San Francisco, including the rent. http://www.quora.com/How-do-you-live-comfortably-on-a-40k-salary-in-San-Francisco#ans1028411 http://www.quora.com/How-do-you-live-comfortably-on-a-40k-sa... Rents are more expensive now, but you can still find workarounds. At the time I remember we didn't have lots of comforts (if any!) but we were happy with it. We landed in SF from Italy, and had to survive somehow while living the dream. I don't suggest doing this for a long period of time though, except if you're happy and really don't care. Personally, I didn't.
- caublestone 14y agoI live in the Tenderloin, and it's not that bad. Sure there are a lot of homeless people and drug addicts in the area . As a 24 y/o white male, I have not felt threatened by any of the "sketchy" people here. In fact, most here are very polite saying "excuse me", "be careful with leaving your phone out", and "do you need help with that?". San Francisco is just a friendly place in general. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_r... Basically the tenderloin is the ugly model. Yeah it's the worst model but still a model. And since the price is half of anywhere else in the city, it's worth it.
- crag 14y agoAll of you can always move down here to Miami (South Florida). I actually live in Fort Lauderdale across the street from the beach. I do a lot of work in Miami. For the price you pay for a tiny apartment in NYC you can live VERY well down here. Of course, Florida is crazy.. :) Not to mention you lose your net connection when a storm flies by. And if you in tech, spanish is a must. Since much of the tech work here is linked to South America. The one exception is medical. Though there is a fair amount of banking work down here too. Of course you'd be living outside the bubble. That brings it's own drawbacks.
- purpleD 14y agoI lived in San Jose and Palo Alto from 2002-2005. Moved to NYC and have been there since. Two things I would add: -SF (vs say NYC,Boston,Chicago) is a one industry town and is therefore a boom and bust town. When I moved there right after the bubble burst the guy who sold me my car was a former dev. Many of you only know the good times, and it won't be like this forever. That's not to say its a great place and I don't miss it. - The cost of housing on the peninsula and to some extent the east bay is almost as bad as SF. When you are reqdy to have a family, at least in NYC you can live in a nice house in Westchester or NJ. Or a really nice modern condo for half the price of NY. You can't get a nice place with a good school district by going further away from SF, it's like prices get even worse the further south you go until you are way past San Jose.
- mcovey 14y agothat rent is unbelievable. I pay 505 a month for a very large 1 bedroom in a gated community...