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by novacrazy 18d ago
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- ecto 18d agoHow can a language be a scam?
- MisterTea 18d agoI have no opinion on the subject but I have found this to be an interesting dive into the supposed controversy: https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v
- novacrazy 18d agoThe first release was just Go's parser ripped out and bolted onto a barebones first year of college level compiler, and touted as "safer than Rust", "compiles in milliseconds", etc. but didn't even have real type-checking at the time, nor did it free memory, and many other basic functionality. Furthermore, I vividly remember the author's Patreon advertised at the top of the page back then, and for a while he raked in a couple thousand dollars a month for it. However, over the years some actually talented people (and nowadays probably LLMs) have somehow sort of fixed most of the biggest warts, but it's still nowhere near what it advertised in that first release.
- morpheos137 18d agoLol this is interesting. If you want to make money you can "invent" a language. With LLMs you could probably make it pretty decent too.
- giancarlostoro 18d agoWhat's wild is I was looking at the language's home page again, and looking to find their GitHub, the first GitHub link I noticed, is the GitHub sponsors link. I don't mind supporting a project like this, but this is a bit excessive. Was it really Go's parser? That wouldn't surprise me, but also that kind of makes sense to me why it looked a bit 'familiar' in terms of syntax. It's definitely been "alpha" tier for a while, which it doesnt help that the developer doesn't outline any sort of stability that I can recall (back then at least) which imho if you're publishing a language, you should let the reader know.
- amedvednikov 18d agoNo, it wasn't Go's parser. That's easy to check.
- torstenvl 18d agoCan you explain what you mean by this? They haven't had a first release yet. They're still in beta.
- novacrazy 18d agoThat's being pedantic. The first public announcement was many years ago.
- torstenvl 18d agoIt appears you're calling something a scam because an early alpha version was early alpha quality. If so, that would be unprofessional and inflammatory. I'm open to being wrong. So again, can you explain what you mean?
- novacrazy 18d agoI have this amazing new thing I'm making, nothing like it, better than everything else. Here's a prototype that does none of that and is _barely_ functional. Care to invest $2000? If so, do I have a bridge to show you...
- wk_end 18d agoIf I go to the vlang releases page, I see literally hundreds of releases https://github.com/vlang/v/releases https://github.com/vlang/v/releases They haven't had a stable 1.0 release yet, but they've had many pre-1.0 releases. It's not some personal experiment that's been sitting in the dev's Github that people are piling onto; the author has gone out of their way to promote it, beg for donations, and lash out at any criticisms. The issue has never been the quality of the language per se, the issue has been 1) wildly misrepresenting the quality of the language in the present tense; 2) not even having any kind of a realistic roadmap towards achieving the kind of outsized and implausible claims about the quality of the language; and 3) using these outsized, implausible misrepresentations as a way of soliciting hype and funding for the author.
- 18d ago
- 0x457 18d agoCan't have use-after-free errors if you never free.
- agumonkey 18d agoIt was impossible to verify the "earth shattering claims" of the designer/users early on, and they would be very very emotional every time you just question the metrics. At one point there was a chart that was basically "for a given task, every compiler on earth: 1min, us: 0.1sec" And whenever you poke you found it seemed to be comparing apple and oranges and conversations often ended in v users crying because "this is a new project !" (yet, the crowd kept growing and they seemed to have produced larger and larger projects with this thing)
- amedvednikov 16d agoV has always compiled itself in <1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc
- agumonkey 16d agoafaik it has none of the costly compiling passes..
- amedvednikov 16d agoTransformer, checker, markused, binary generation are not costly? It takes GCC this much time to generate an unoptimized hello world.
- agumonkey 15d agoi could never find any data on what would allow v to save so much time. i genuinely tried to find objective information, not kneejerk hate. you're the author it seems, so maybe you can give some hints ? i don't believe gcc is the absolute best, but even clang (I didn't check other languages/compilers) was lagging behind in the benchmarks which made me doubt it was not just comparing apple and oranges.
- ape4 18d agoThis seems to be the language's main page https://vlang.io/ https://vlang.io/
- embedding-shape 18d agoFor reference, for the ones who aren't aware of the constant drama that seems to follow V: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=v%20lang%20comments%3E10&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... (open up almost any discussion and see the flood of similar messages). I never paid enough attention to figure out if the drama is justified or not (and don't really care either, please don't try to convince me to care either, don't shoot the messenger).
- iamnothere 18d agoThere’s good kinds of drama (competent dev forcefully rejects bad ideas) and bad kinds of drama (activist/corporate takeovers, subpar dev doubles down on mistakes, etc), but I haven’t been following it, so I have no idea which one this is.
- orsenthil 18d agoThe book about the language was published by packt, and I had my eyebrows raised. I want to give a benefit of doubt tough and learn more.
- QuantumNomad_ 18d agoPackt used to give away one book for free every day or something like that years ago. Maybe they still do. I downloaded many of them, and there were a couple of actually good books in the bunch but most of them I found to be too low quality to be worth reading. I came to see Packt as a shovelware place for ebooks. And this was even before LLMs were around. I haven’t visited in years but if I did and it turned out that their current library consists of 99.99% AI written slop it would not surprise me. I don’t know if your past experience with Packt is similar, or if you saw Packt publishing a book about V as a surprising positive sign for V.
- IshKebab 18d agoYeah it seems to be following the No Man's Sky playbook.
- EGreg 18d agoI don't know. But I just released a language called U, and I was surprised to see this one. https://ulanguage.org https://ulanguage.org
- xvilka 18d agoJust like V but without sharp edges?
- cestith 18d agoWhen compiling to C, does it use MISRA C or some other accepted standard for how to write secure and reliable C?
- EGreg 17d agoYes, C11 But in terms of security and reliability, U's linter and compiler enforces that.
- vrighter 16d agoC11 is the c language version. misra C is a set of guidelines for robust code when lives are on the line. One rule is "no malloc after initialization". so no, you probably aren't. Nor should you be. misra is intended for the programmerc not the compiler
- cestith 14d agoHe's emitting C as an intermediate form. I'm asking if the C that's emitted is meeting MISRA or any other recognized standard for secure and robust C code.
- netbioserror 18d agoI've only dipped my toe in, but it compiles fast code and works. Can't argue with results.
- threethirtytwo 18d agoWell tbh I don't care about all the PR surrounding the language. Has anyone used it in it's current state? Is it good? Please be objective.
- ursuscamp 18d agoI remember the controversy around the original announcement. It seems quaint now, honestly. Simpler times. Slop by those olds standards is practically the Mona Lisa now.
- dang 18d ago"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html