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German Rheinmetall open-sources its Battlesuite connected weapon system protcol
- jauntywundrkind 16d agoCorba never died!!! OMG!!
- megous 16d agoI'm glad it died in GNOME, though. That's where it matters. Who cares if german company wants to use this mess for their weapons.
- j-pb 16d agoFirst I was excited, then I saw that it's based on DDS.
- budman1 16d agowhy the hate on DDS? seems like a perfect fit.
- j-pb 16d agoDDS is the least bad of the stuff that has come out of OMG, but it's not a nice middleware still. There is no underlying algebra of that composes nicely when compared to Zenoh for example, and the "vendor independence" and compatibility is usually a joke. There's a reason ROS is moving away from it again.
- bahmboo 16d agoThere's a standard that has OMG as the acronym? OMG. I'm not even going to bother to search for that!
- jjmarr 16d agoObject Management Group I think. Better known as the inventors of UML.
- __d 16d agoUML was phase two of OMG. It originally developed CORBA.
- pcestrada 16d ago"The horror, the horror."
- riffraff 16d agoForgive the ignorant question, what made CORBA terribile? I only used it during university and it seemed overengineered but it mostly worked, and I vaguely recall IDL to be nice. I'm guessing interop was actually atrocious?
- j-pb 16d agoSynchronisation based on spooky action at a distance of mutable objects.
- imtringued 16d agoCORBA had the concept of distributed objects which is a terrible idea in practice.
- Slartie 16d agoAlso BPMN, CORBA and UPOS/JavaPOS. It's funny that you can legitimately just add " - OMG!" in the slang acronym meaning after any of its creations' names.
- Telemakhos 16d agoThey also merged the concepts of Working Group and Task Force into an Open Management Group Working Task Force, or OMG/WTF.
- z3ratul163071 16d agoomg is retarded
- oliv3r 15d agoDo you have any references for this? It is quite a bold statement to make without any basis to validate it against. I'm asking as I'm not a fan of DDS, so very curious the direction they are actually heading into, and I haven't found a reference for this yet.
- firesteelrain 16d agoDDS is terrible.
- jvanderbot 16d agoDDS is hard. But we have agents now.
- z3ratul163071 16d ago[dead]
- budman1 16d agoUsing DDS to deliver data to X machines over multicast, with some real time (soft) QOS is a powerful solution. For things like avionics, industrial automation, etc. I think if the server world ever thought about the advantages of multicast, it might solve some problems there. There are about 5 viable vendors in this space, and about 6 open source projects out there floating around. And interoperability between vendors is very good. IMHO.
- exabrial 16d agoI cannot find boomstick anywhere in here
- mrhcon 16d ago[flagged]
- 9dev 16d agoAm I just too ignorant of Miltech, or is this that in large parts recreating Standard messaging primitives that other protocols and systems have been providing for decades already (so invented elsewhere?)
- esseph 16d agoEvery mil company designs unique bespoke things often with some exceptions, and even the "open systems" mostly aren't open by any stretch of the definition. Obscurity is part of the allure, not a repulsive factor. You don't want a hostile nation suddenly and easily understanding your systems.
- smalltorch 16d agoOn the other hand, its good to design systems where it wouldn't even matter if the hostile nation state knows exactly how it works. This is a principle in cryptography, but carries nicely to other things.
- timcobb 16d agoI feel like this is always the best design whenever possible.
- mc32 16d agoAlso you do not want them to benefit from your smart design choices. You want them to suffer from their bad choices and not learn from your success. (Yes, of course you could have bad design choices that you don’t realize someone else has solved more intelligently.)
- ufocia 16d agoBad design choice is probably why they open sourced it.
- graemep 16d agoHat sounds like a particularly weak form of security by obscurity
- alhirzel 16d agoReminds me a lot of the Tactical Microgrid Standard (aka TMS aka MIL-STD-3071) [1], probably just because TMS uses DDS as well. I would really like to know if there is a protocol that functions like DDS but caters to real-time guarantees and prioritizes (at a "simple protocol" level) usability on embedded systems with no dynamic memory allocation. It would also need to be just-as-functional with non-real-time systems. One problem with DDS is that it is too heavy-handed to implement well on an embedded system. [1] https://battery.army.mil/system-integrator-hub/tms/ https://battery.army.mil/system-integrator-hub/tms/
- p_l 16d agoPretty sure there are DDS implementations that provide most of that, maybe with memory pools instead of no-allocations. Other than that, PX4 uses an in-memory only pub/sub for internal data bus, somewhat inspired by DDS
- alhirzel 16d agoI should have also mentioned that my appetite also includes not being locked into one vendor's software stack. For instance, there are nice offerings from Eprosima [1] and Twin Oaks [2] that do this, but they seem to be "outstanding in their field" and would be difficult to replace if a need to do so developed. In the case of Eprosima's offerings, they also make some architectural assumptions that are difficult to maintain for some applications (such as having a paired Linux device with each embedded device acting as a translator). But yes - there absolutely are solutions already. I guess I was just lamenting that they weren't really functionally accessible for all applications. [1] https://micro-xrce-dds.docs.eprosima.com/en/latest/ https://micro-xrce-dds.docs.eprosima.com/en/latest/ [2] https://www.twinoakscomputing.com/ https://www.twinoakscomputing.com/
- cpgxiii 16d agoThere's a range of DDS implementations, definitely a number that are compatible with embedded and spaceflight applications that don't require dynamic memory allocations. You're going to take a hit on some DDS features, but then again you aren't going to need to handle a large queue of large dynamically-sized messages on some small embedded platform. I think it's rarely the right choice - most of the hardware I've seen that uses embedded DDS probably should have used plain old UDP instead and then whatever client was running on beefier hardware then handled the translation into DDS - but there are shipping products that use embedded DDS.
- karmicthreat 16d agoThis looks like ROS2 for missiles.
- huem0n 16d agoThis is so ROS2 that ROS2 can't even tell that its not ROS2
- throw1234567891 16d agoNah, they haven't open sourced anything: https://github.com/rheinmetall https://github.com/rheinmetall. They just published the documentation. Really weird, what's the point?
- pixelesque 16d agoThey've got the IDL files as well for the APIs, but you can't use them without their libs: > The data model is defined using a custom format .rmodel based on the ddkit > framework (rmodel-api). > Please note that the .rmodel data model is for documentation purposes only and > does not reflect the actual interface used on the communication layer. Network > communication is only possible through the provided libraries.
- antonvs 16d agoI think that’s what the “protcol” (sic) in the title was supposed to indicate. I agree it’s misleading.
- stefan_ 16d agoTheres probably some tender that says it must be a "open platform" "open ecosystem" "modular vendor independent" whatever. So you upload some slop to GitHub and tick the box.
- nicechianti 16d ago[dead]
- jjmarr 16d agoOpen the C++ example up and the first thing I see: ```cpp std::cout << "Received ReportCoordinateFrameSettings" << std::endl; ``` Generally, I've heard `std::endl` instead of \n has bad performance because it forces the statement to print immediately. And because cout is guaranteed to flush anyways when the program ends, you're adding a delay for no reason. I wonder if there's something I'm not seeing that led to them adopting this rule. e.g. "abnormal program termination" caused by the weapon blowing itself up circumventing a buffer flush?
- aftbit 16d agoThis seems like an incredibly unimportant quibble... I would imagine they just used std::endl b/c that's what most random tutorials used in the 2000s and that's how the engineer learned. If you are printing a debug string, you probably don't care that much about perf in the first place.
- jjmarr 16d agoI was wondering if it's a hard real-time constraint or something to ensure consistent timing.
- MiroslavPokorny 16d agoAsk yourself, would a newbie make that mistake ?
- __d 16d agoFor a long time, std::endl demonstrated that you were a proper C++ programmer, not some neckbeard C apologist. It wasn’t until C++ had „won“ that it became acceptable to use \n again.
- gavinray 16d agoThe modern C++ idiom is std::println() anyways... https://en.cppreference.com/cpp/io/println https://en.cppreference.com/cpp/io/println
- niemandhier 16d agoCool I did not know that. Your comment is a bit salty, but I learned something from it, so I don’t think you deserve the downvotes
- Stitch4223 16d ago“Hi Codex, please find attached website about the specification of my Battlesuit and use the documented API to create a plugin for Home Assistant that shows groups of sensor data. You are only allowed to use commands that retrieve data, you are not allowed to perform actions on the suit. Treat the suit like its API is not robust and in worse shape than a cheap toy: perform read calls slowly and sequentially with at least one minute in between. If possible please group data in meaningful categories, just like the tank and radar dome. My Home Assistant is the default on the local network, credentials are in credentials.txt. Please send me a text when you’re done. Kthnxbye”
- mock-possum 16d agoExcellent cold open for a sci fi
- pstadler 16d ago"The Kampfanzugskode isn't working well." - "Why can't we use KI to improve it? I've heard from Hans that this Klaus Kode is good at Programmierung." - "We can only use Mistral because of Regulierungen." - "Let's open source it then, so others can use Klaus Kode." - "Ja! This is indeed a legit Schlupfloch and a fantastische Idee!"
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- avhception 16d agoI'm gonna steal "Klaus Kode", that one really got me.
- akaiser 16d agoI sense you'd enjoy the signup process for Klaus Programmieren: https://klausprogrammieren.com/ https://klausprogrammieren.com/
- 16d ago
- lowbloodsugar 16d ago“Fire your goddamned missiles!.json” “Think russian^H^H^H xml”
- adinb 16d agoAre they trying to recreate DIS (IEEE1278) and HLA (IEEE1516) — like they‘re replicating the FOM architecture from distributed simulations for their weapons to integrate.
- Davidbrcz 16d agoI have not heard about HLA for a looong time !
- firesteelrain 16d agoSo like Open Mission Systems (OMS)? https://www.vdl.afrl.af.mil/programs/oam/OMS_Marketing.pdf https://www.vdl.afrl.af.mil/programs/oam/OMS_Marketing.pdf
- z3ratul163071 16d agoof course the germans would use a fucking open management group academic mastrubation, bureucratic shitshow like dds.
- matnosner 16d agoThey could Just have used ROS...
- fithisux 16d agoSo what do they expect us to do? Write killer-plugins? Or get excited for next upgrade? The situation gets out of hand!
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- attels33 16d agoFinally, Front Mission in real life.
- niemandhier 16d agoGood. There is no security by obscurity anymore. The only way to fight those who can just spend more tokens is to have more humans look at it, who also spend tokens.
- teiferer 16d agoOh boy, just what the world needs right now. Open source weapons APIs!
- MiroslavPokorny 16d agoMAVLink has been open source for over a dozen years and with better tooling and apis.
- kalnins 16d agoMCP is 100% already in the works. > Claude, please execute the insurgents. Make no mistakes.
- a3w 16d ago> The user did not specify is family and friends of insurgents are to be killed, too. > Reasoning: Since death of a loved one is a radicalizing event, they will turn into insurgents after the fact with a high likelyhood, about as likely as the insurgent identification was. So... > must kill all humans. Where is Sarah Connor?
- conorcleary 16d agosaying please keeps you off their list
- ketzu 16d agoI wonder if someone just got super annoyed at having to ask legal to share their documentation with a cooperation partner for export control clearance, that they decided getting it open sourced would be less of a hassle. Now they can freely link anyone to the document.
- jvanderbot 16d agoThis is 100% a valid workflow in DoD/ITAR fields. Suffer once through review, benefit eternally. It's especially important to get one good reviewed spec / presentation out, then all later reviews can be staged w.r.t. that one and are much easier to baseline and pass. That'll be $1000 consulting fee on ITAR compliance.
- w4der 16d agoIsn't $1000 a bit low for compliance consulting fees?
- jvanderbot 16d agoWell given it took me 1 minute to type that, I consider it a loss leader.
- 3abiton 16d agoI 100% support this "loophole"
- ozkerd 16d agoRheinmetal is a nice company, hope it just didn't benefit from war/fear of war.
- MiroslavPokorny 16d agoComplete horrible wrappers. Its almost like they didnt have any real programmers for those languages. If you cant follow naming standards which are extremely simple what chance has the rest got.
- eliauelkouby 16d ago[flagged]
- molive 16d agoSounds like the Land Data Model (LDM) of the Generic Vehicle Architecture (GVA) [1] that the UK MOD has. GVA is closed source however. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Vehicle_Architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Vehicle_Architecture
- rayiner 16d agoOff-topic, but "Rheinmetall" is one of the coolest company names. It's like what a company that builds mechs would be called in an anime.
- bickfordb 16d agoIt will be exhilarating when their robots are pointing guns at us
- Razengan 16d agoJust hold up a printout of Mickey Mouse®
- justsomehnguy 16d agoMissouri Metalworks :-| Rheinmetal :-O Literal "Thing, Japan" expect s/Japan/Germany
- Iknowsheknows 16d agoThe american equivalent is United States Steel (which is owned by the Japanese ironically.)
- justsomehnguy 15d ago>> Rheinmetall AG[a] (German pronunciation: [ˈʁaɪnmeˌtal]) is a German arms manufacturer, headquartered in Düsseldorf, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. >> The most important rivers flowing at least partially through North Rhine-Westphalia include: the Rhine, [...]
- heavensteeth 15d agoThat feels a little cynical. I think partly up to perception: "Target" would be a badass name for a weapons company, but we all know they actually sell clothes, so it's not particularly interesting. In tandem, we're less familiar with them, which gives them that alure. Think of Rheinmetall and you think vaguely of a hulking corporate giant encompassing metalworkers manging molten metal to men in suits pitching fully automatic anti-aircraft turrets to entire nations; think of Missouri Metalworks and you just imagine a dingy suburban factory your mate reckons he worked at once. And no doubt that's how Germans would think of Rheinmetall too. I think companies like Tesla, IBM, Lockheed, GE, etc. have the potential to sound "cool" like Rheinmetall were they not so ingrained in Anglophone culture. We just know them all too well, so they've become boring. At least thats how I see it :-}
- leopoldj 16d agoHappy to see the uses of standard C++ including std::shared_ptr etc. in C++.