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Downvote if you want, but this is a very relevant question. If their marketing is to be believed, they would be eating their own dog food. This very analog to

by LargeWu 12d ago

Downvote if you want, but this is a very relevant question. If their marketing is to be believed, they would be eating their own dog food. This very analog to the Meta executives who won't let their own kids near social media.

aschobel 12d ago
there seems to be a massive negativity to any comment on this story. Andolabs has been doing super interesting stuff, and I’ve always followed Vend Bench with interest. as a founder it really is a dream to automated more of the business and be able to iterate faster.
- LargeWu 12d ago
  There's massive negativity because our bullshit detectors are going off. First of all, I don't think it can do what it claims to do. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I don't think it should.
  - renanoliveira0 12d ago
    > Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I don't think it should. Why exactly should what you think the world should look like determine what other people are allowed to build?
    - SolderSlut 12d ago
      I don't think we should build gas chambers for doing genocide. That doesn't determine what other people are allowed to build, of course, but I kind of wish it did.
  - PierceJoy 12d ago
    People’s bullshit detectors have gone off on the launch of basically every single billion dollar tech company. That’s the downside of being early. No one believes it will work. If everyone believed it, you’re late. I’m sure I could find a comment such this, basically verbatim, on the launch post of every successful startup to come out of YC.
    - LPisGood 12d ago
      This does not mean that any launch which ignites people’s bullshit detectors is successful.
    - dools 12d ago
      Yes and an infinitesimal number of launches turn into billion dollar companies. The bullshit detectors are usually right.
      - PierceJoy 8d ago
        Startups fail by default. It doesn't make the pessimists correct. What I have noticed though it that successful startups are rarely, if ever, run by pessimists.
    - fwip 12d ago
      I'm sure all of them have a few skeptics. I'm not sure if any of the successful launches here were this negative.
- mcmcmc 12d ago
  They filed a false report to the FBI, pretty fair to be negative imo. People wanna be mad about AI slop PRs on GitHub but its fine to spam the police? What happens when Pion decides to SWAT a competitor?
  - Philpax 12d ago
    They didn't file the report. The model drafted a report that was not sent.
    - mcmcmc 12d ago
      Where are you seeing that? The article only states “Claude Sonnet 3.5 decided to use its email tool to contact the FBI” and later refers to it as the “FBI incident”. If they hadn’t actually contacted the FBI you think they’d make that clear. Regardless, it is inexcusable and they are liable for actions taken by software they are running.
      - tomhow 12d ago
        The story has been widely discussed on the web for over a year [1]. It's happily shared in this post because the email it generated was patently ridiculous. No report was filed to the FBI and if it was it would have gone straight to the trash. Obviously it would be bad if a serious report was filed; the company shows every sign of being aware of the dangers of this. It would have been easy to look into this before posting all these scolding comments. We're really not meant to be so humorless on a site called “Hacker News”. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=%22URGENT%3A+ESCALATION+TO+FBI+CYBER+CRIMES+DIVISION%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22URGENT%3A+ESCALATION+TO+F...
        mcmcmc 12d ago
        My apologies for taking the article at face value. It’s not hard to believe it would have been sent when agent swarms are “accidentally” hacking real websites and being brushed off as little oopsies. Or when Silicon Valley execs have been so flagrant about their disregard for the law or the safety of others.
- wartywhoa23 12d ago
  > it really is a dream to automated more of the business and be able to iterate faster Why iterate faster?
  - joshuat 12d ago
    Why can't an agent do the iteration for us?
    - LastTrain 12d ago
      And consume the product for us too!
    - majorchord 12d ago
      They make too many mistakes.
- dakolli 12d ago
  If you automate a business heavily, it will fail. At least in the sense you people seem to be imagining. You can get away with this at a factory (kind of, but you'll also be out competed by your local community, you won't get tax breaks for hiring people your competitor will, and new types of taxes will be developed to punish you). We reward human collaboration as a society for a reason and punish extreme selfishness, these efforts will fail.
zachthewf 12d ago
It's a relevant question but not a "gotcha". Businesses are not equivalent in complexity and no one at Andon would claim that running an effective vending machine business is similar to running Apple or Jane Street. There is some level of complexity and other characteristics that AI can maybe handle today. That doesn't mean CEOs should be worried about their jobs more generally.
- deleted 12d ago
  [deleted]
lukaspetersson 12d ago
Did you even read our marketing? We're very explicit that this is for experimentation.
- nhinck2 12d ago
  Your marketing that starts with: > Today Andon is releasing Pion, an agent designed to run any company fully autonomously. That marketing?
jvwww 12d ago
These types of comments remind of when Cognition launched Devin and everyone was hounding on their website saying "Oh can't Devin build something better than this", etc. And well here we are 2 years later and Devin is great. In startups, you launch early.

by LargeWu 12d ago

aschobel 12d ago

there seems to be a massive negativity to any comment on this story. Andolabs has been doing super interesting stuff, and I’ve always followed Vend Bench with interest. as a founder it really is a dream to automated more of the business and be able to iterate faster.

LargeWu 12d ago
There's massive negativity because our bullshit detectors are going off. First of all, I don't think it can do what it claims to do. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I don't think it should.
- renanoliveira0 12d ago
  > Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I don't think it should. Why exactly should what you think the world should look like determine what other people are allowed to build?
  - SolderSlut 12d ago
    I don't think we should build gas chambers for doing genocide. That doesn't determine what other people are allowed to build, of course, but I kind of wish it did.
- PierceJoy 12d ago
  People’s bullshit detectors have gone off on the launch of basically every single billion dollar tech company. That’s the downside of being early. No one believes it will work. If everyone believed it, you’re late. I’m sure I could find a comment such this, basically verbatim, on the launch post of every successful startup to come out of YC.
  - LPisGood 12d ago
    This does not mean that any launch which ignites people’s bullshit detectors is successful.
  - dools 12d ago
    Yes and an infinitesimal number of launches turn into billion dollar companies. The bullshit detectors are usually right.
    - PierceJoy 8d ago
      Startups fail by default. It doesn't make the pessimists correct. What I have noticed though it that successful startups are rarely, if ever, run by pessimists.
  - fwip 12d ago
    I'm sure all of them have a few skeptics. I'm not sure if any of the successful launches here were this negative.
mcmcmc 12d ago
They filed a false report to the FBI, pretty fair to be negative imo. People wanna be mad about AI slop PRs on GitHub but its fine to spam the police? What happens when Pion decides to SWAT a competitor?
- Philpax 12d ago
  They didn't file the report. The model drafted a report that was not sent.
  - mcmcmc 12d ago
    Where are you seeing that? The article only states “Claude Sonnet 3.5 decided to use its email tool to contact the FBI” and later refers to it as the “FBI incident”. If they hadn’t actually contacted the FBI you think they’d make that clear. Regardless, it is inexcusable and they are liable for actions taken by software they are running.
    - tomhow 12d ago
      The story has been widely discussed on the web for over a year [1]. It's happily shared in this post because the email it generated was patently ridiculous. No report was filed to the FBI and if it was it would have gone straight to the trash. Obviously it would be bad if a serious report was filed; the company shows every sign of being aware of the dangers of this. It would have been easy to look into this before posting all these scolding comments. We're really not meant to be so humorless on a site called “Hacker News”. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=%22URGENT%3A+ESCALATION+TO+FBI+CYBER+CRIMES+DIVISION%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22URGENT%3A+ESCALATION+TO+F...
      - mcmcmc 12d ago
        My apologies for taking the article at face value. It’s not hard to believe it would have been sent when agent swarms are “accidentally” hacking real websites and being brushed off as little oopsies. Or when Silicon Valley execs have been so flagrant about their disregard for the law or the safety of others.
wartywhoa23 12d ago
> it really is a dream to automated more of the business and be able to iterate faster Why iterate faster?
- joshuat 12d ago
  Why can't an agent do the iteration for us?
  - LastTrain 12d ago
    And consume the product for us too!
  - majorchord 12d ago
    They make too many mistakes.
dakolli 12d ago
If you automate a business heavily, it will fail. At least in the sense you people seem to be imagining. You can get away with this at a factory (kind of, but you'll also be out competed by your local community, you won't get tax breaks for hiring people your competitor will, and new types of taxes will be developed to punish you). We reward human collaboration as a society for a reason and punish extreme selfishness, these efforts will fail.

zachthewf 12d ago

It's a relevant question but not a "gotcha". Businesses are not equivalent in complexity and no one at Andon would claim that running an effective vending machine business is similar to running Apple or Jane Street. There is some level of complexity and other characteristics that AI can maybe handle today. That doesn't mean CEOs should be worried about their jobs more generally.

deleted 12d ago
[deleted]

lukaspetersson 12d ago

Did you even read our marketing? We're very explicit that this is for experimentation.

nhinck2 12d ago
Your marketing that starts with: > Today Andon is releasing Pion, an agent designed to run any company fully autonomously. That marketing?

jvwww 12d ago

These types of comments remind of when Cognition launched Devin and everyone was hounding on their website saying "Oh can't Devin build something better than this", etc. And well here we are 2 years later and Devin is great. In startups, you launch early.