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Currently top at https://deepswe.datacurve.ai https://deepswe.datacurve.ai - beating Opus 5! https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-3-8-flash https://arti
by mattlondon 1mo ago
Currently top at https://deepswe.datacurve.ai https://deepswe.datacurve.ai - beating Opus 5!
https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-3-8-flash https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-3-8-flash shows an intelligence score of 59, the same as Opus 5 medium!
Wow - for a flash model this seems to benchmark powerfully. Remains to be seen what it is like to use.
- Gecko4072 1mo agoGoogle - we're so back
- oceanplexian 1mo agoOnly 1 point behind the Chinese SOTA from two months ago.
- roosterIllusi0n 1mo agoI had qwen 3.8 3bit model drop into chinese on long runs. I had to remind it to use english. Its still better than every gemma model I tried. Gemma deleted files on a harddrive to make space when there was over 2TB free. For long runs, gemma is useless.
- nolok 1mo agoIf you care about points sure, but personnaly I care about price, performance, speed and reliability
- WarmWash 1mo agoThe benchmark also doesn't include speed. You almost think something has gone wrong when using it because it returns full responses so incredibly fast.
- scrlk 1mo agoNot just speed, also reliability. IME, Gemini's speed and quality doesn't degrade badly during weekday working hours compared to OAI, and especially Anthropic.
- ford 1mo agoI've had Gemini model API use degrade the most out of OAI/Anthropic/Google (often "over capacity" vs true failures) Not sure on consumer/product use though
- scrlk 1mo agoThat's interesting to hear. I should have added that I use Gemini through Google AI Studio as my general chat model, which probably explains our wildly different experiences.
- sotix 1mo agoThis one uses that as a priority weight: https://winstonrc.github.io/ai-coding-agents-leaderboard/ https://winstonrc.github.io/ai-coding-agents-leaderboard/
- ttul 1mo agoCrushing it on DeepSWE is a very big deal. Excited to give this a try.
- pietz 1mo agoI know everyone is benchmaxxing but this one feels one step too far. Doesn't DeepSWE have both public and private tasks? I'd love to see the diff here. It looks more like Google execs losing their mind and pressuring researchers to put DeepSWE directly into the training set.
- re-thc 1mo ago> DeepSWE is a very big deal It's clearly been "dealt with" already. When it launched we had interesting gaps and definitely differences. Now every new release is "crushing it".
- ttul 1mo agoWill look forward to the "feel" of the model in real testing. But I agree that these benchmarks do get "dealt with" rapidly. That's a shame, but I guess it's the times we live in.
- rickdg 1mo agoCheck DeepSWE for number of agent steps.
- satvikpendem 1mo agoWe'll see about that. I suspect benchmaxxing as all the labs do as I haven't found Gemini models to be nearly as good in agentic engineering compared to Claude or GPT models.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1mo agoAnd the benchmarks agreed with you... until now. So, yes, maybe it's still not - but this would be the only time it would be highly suspicious / obvious benchmaxxing / obviously bad benchmarks.
- NitpickLawyer 1mo agoIf anything, gemini models are the least benchmaxxed out of any lab, IMO.
- sunaookami 1mo ago>shows an intelligence score of 59, the same as Opus 5! ...on Medium reasoning. Claude Opus 5 (high) is the default in e.g. Claude Code and scores 61. Still very impressive.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1mo agoThe rumor is that 3.9 is an equal improvement in all directions, and that it should be another fast follow on like 3.7 and 3.8 were. It's almost across the board better than Terra at less than half the price. 3.9 is likely to approach Sol at the 1/10th the price. Hopefully OpenAI releases Astra first, and it's not only better than Sol but significantly cheaper, too.
- harmonic18374 1mo agoCurious where did you hear this rumor?
- onlyrealcuzzo 1mo agoAll the talk on Reddit on Gemini 3.8 discussions: https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=gemini+3.9&cId=1650e403-bcfa-402b-a352-9e6113d181e6&iId=f114a6dc-dd42-41ba-bf90-72d18852d52e https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=gemini+3.9&cId=1650e403-bcf...
- nolok 1mo agoAccordit to reddit talk, Fable 5.1 is worse than Opus 4.6 and 8B models are smarter than Qwen 3.8 Max, I wouldn't take anything said there with any more reliability than an instagram short.
- unsupp0rted 1mo agoReddit thinks Astra will be released today (Thursday/Friday)
- markasoftware 1mo agoOn artificial analysis it's only equal to opus 5 medium effort. Opus 5 max scores 63. Further, opus 5 medium outputs 4x fewer tokens to achieve the same result, negating a lot of the speed difference.
- irishcoffee 1mo agoA comparison to an artificial score and a comparison to “the same task” These folks must laugh themselves to sleep. This whole industry hoodwinked the masses. It’s impressive.
- wonnage 1mo agoIt’s all just vibes
- bertili 1mo agoA fifth of the cost of Opus 5! Google is certainly pushing the completion with this.
- abirch 1mo agoGemini hasn't failed me for personal usage yet. I haven't had the opportunity to use it at work.
- panarky 1mo agoI've been using 3.7 Flash to audit the work of Opus High, and Flash finds lots of subtle and insidious defects even while all the unit tests are green. Then I tell Opus to read the audit report and implement what it agrees with. Flash is really good at this, and it is blazing fast in Antigravity CLI. Easily 10x faster than Opus. Can't wait to try 3.8 Flash. If it's good enough, maybe I'll switch Flash to primary and make Opus the auditor.
- porridgeraisin 1mo agoYeah the speed in agy cli is amazing. Whole files get written and "py_compile"d in a single blink of the eye its crazy. In india, my telco gives me google ai pro for free. And agy with flash goes a long way.
- prodigycorp 1mo agoit's very fast but it still doesnt come close to 5.6 sol, at least for me, in terms of gathering the context necessary to do extensive changes.
- MaxikCZ 1mo agoIdk, was building/maintaining simple esp32 control program with antig/opus. After last update it defaulted to gflash3.7. I pasted an email requesting 2 changes into the chat prompt, it did one and took me 4 turns to get that one right.
- theHocineSaad 1mo agoAs of writing this comment, Claude Opus 5 has an intelligence score of 63, not 59 (it's not the same as Gemini 3.8 Flash). With a score of 59, Gemini 3.8 Flash is in eighth place, falling behind even Grok 4.6, Kimi k3, and GLM 5.3. https://imgur.com/a/BMOJBED https://imgur.com/a/BMOJBED
- Squarex 1mo agoThey are all much larger and more expensive models. Google does not have a frontier model right now, but for cheap ones, they are better than event the chinese models now.
- pietz 1mo agoThat's not being debated here. The initial reported numbers were false and this was simply pointed out. You're changing the subject.
- mattlondon 1mo agoOpus 5 medium has the same score as 3.8 flash on artificial analysis intelligence index. Are you implying Google or Artificial Analysis are reporting false numbers? What's your source?
- asdfologist 1mo agoBTW you're comparing 3.8 flash high to opus 5 medium. 3.8 flash medium scores lower.
- pkos98 1mo agoWait a week with your judgement - most likely, Google is just bench-maxing very hard. If you look at the previous Flash models and the announcement on Google I/O, it was an absolute disaster. Reality diverged very much from the marketing (supposedly great benchmarks).
- jrflo 1mo agosidenote, but wow sonnet 5 is shockingly bad on this benchmark.
- notatoad 1mo agosonnet 5 is bad by almost any metric. anthropic really needs something to address the cheaper end of the market before they get left behind. Sonnet 5 sucks, and Haiku hasn't been updated in a year. meanwhile we've got gemini flash, luna, and GLM5.3 all delivering 90% of the performance for a small fraction of the cost. paying $25/mTok is going to start looking pretty silly soon.
- surgical_fire 1mo ago> flash, luna, and GLM5.3 all delivering 90% of the performance for a small fraction of the cost. I find GLM5.3 so much better than Sonnet it is not even funny. Sonnet behaves like a cheap model while being very expensive.
- kimjune01 1mo agodeepswe is public and can be considered contaminated.
- WhitneyLand 1mo agoThere are important gaps in that hot take. For example, it's not even close to Opus 5 on Terminal-bench 4.0, 19.1% vs. 51.8%.
- wwind123 1mo agoI've been trying this Gemini 3.8 Flash for a day. Looks not much different than Gemini 3.7 Flash in my use case: I have Codex (gpt-5.6 sol) write up a design plan to implement a feature or refactor a portion of a system I am building, and have Claude (Opus-5) and Gemini (3.8 Flash) review and critique the plan, until all problems are addressed by Codex and approved by the reviewers; then have a cheaper model of Codex (gpt-5.6 luna) implement the plan, and still have Claude (Opus-5) and Gemini (3.8 Flash) review and critique the implementation, until all problems are addressed by Codex and approved by the reviewers. The result is the same as the previous Gemini 3.6/3.7 Flash days: Claude could always note much more problems in Codex's plan and implementation than Gemini could - the ratio is like 10:1. I occasionally switch the roles between Codex and Claude, and result is the same, Codex could always catch much more problems in Claude's plan and implementation, than Gemini could. So I am guessing in a relatedly complex codebase, Gemini is much less effective in acting as a guardrail (or a senior engineer/team lead) than the other SOTA models.
- camkego 1mo agoI find this very interesting, I wonder if there is a public benchmark that reflects this “red team coding critique” aspect of the current SOTA model that reflects what you have observed. It would be really useful to observe this in a benchmark vs. the more common “go implement this, or fix this bug” type benchmarks that seem to be prevalent.
- wwind123 1mo agoYeah, my tool to automate these review loops is https://github.com/wwind123/coding-review-agent-loop https://github.com/wwind123/coding-review-agent-loop . It's basically a script calling Claude, Codex and Antigravity CLI's. The benefit of using CLI's is, the tool uses quota in your subscription plan of these AI providers, which is much cheaper than using extra tokens from the same providers to do the same thing. A couple of months ago (before opus-5 and gpt-5.6 sol), The ratio of problems caught by codex/claude vs gemini was more like 2:1 to 3:1. But now it seems codex and claude have made huge leaps and gemini is more or less staying put.
- rickdg 1mo agoCheck number of agent steps.