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Smartphone LED detects hidden cameras with AI
- Segv77 1mo agoFinally, a practical use for those notification LEDs. Definitely adding this to my travel toolkit if it proves reliable.
- throwaway81523 1mo agoCool, but we need that for microphones.
- poly2it 1mo agoAnything can be a microphone: https://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/VisualMic/ https://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/VisualMic/
- devsda 1mo agoIt would be interesting to see if anyone can recover behind the camera audio from 4K movies.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- wwn_se 1mo agoPut on some music is the cheap and easy option. Combine with a ultrasonic jammer for a robust solution.
- brunoborges 1mo agoI wonder if it works with smart glasses.
- thesuitonym 1mo agoYou don't need this to detect smart glasses, they're very obvious.
- doodlebugging 1mo agoProctologists agree on this one thing that smart glasses can never conceal.
- stronglikedan 1mo agoFor now, but there's really no point in detecting them anyway, since there are plenty of truly concealed options for those that really want to be pervs.
- dbspin 1mo agoStrongly disagree. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity. Most 'pervs' don't start out that way either. Detecting increasingly easy to conceal sousveillance devices is probably essential for any kind of normative public sphere to continue to exist.
- numpad0 1mo agothis is an old trick and works with any digital camera units. the flash reflects on the silicon behind lens or something. the operator is normally supposed to look across the area of interest through a special glass like a witch doctor to spot cameras using their skill and training, rather than letting an AI do the fun part.
- fidotron 1mo agoIf this worked with IR, and so non visible, it might be even more useful. Great idea though.
- baking 1mo agoBut then you would need an IR camera instead of using the phone's camera. An IR camera should be able to find some hidden cameras passively by detecting a heat source.
- hammock 1mo agoCan’t phone cameras pick up IR?
- lightedman 1mo agoDepends on how cheap you go - most of the cheap ones that take images where the blacks look grey likely do not have an IR filter on them. Most quality phones will use a camera with IR filters on them - blacks look like blacks.
- HnUser12 1mo agoI’d think so. My iPhone can see my remote’s IR.
- happyopossum 1mo agoThat was true years ago, but I haven't been able to use an iPhone camera to pick up an IR signal in a long time. Just tested it to be sure they hadn't reverted to an unfiltered lens (17 pro) and nope, no IR visible.
- ThePowerOfFuet 1mo agoTry the selfie (aka front-facing) camera; often they are not equipped with an IR filter.
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- tamimio 1mo agoYeah I don’t think this will be effective, cameras can be put in certain angles that it can see with being seen, or how police do it, entirely behind clothes or similar fabric where it can see through and identify but not seen even if you’re looking straight at it.
- dgellow 1mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
- carlostkd 1mo agoUntil someone develops hidden cameras with AI that will be auto turned on couple of hours later after detecting presence at that time a scan was already performed and nothing was found.....
- zack6849 1mo agothis works by looking at the physical characteristics of the lens, so on or off should work regardless, you could have something with some kind of internal shutter to cover the lens maybe
- realharo 1mo agoTapo C125 has a built-in physical shutter. Also, every PTZ camera can just turn to face the wall, that would maybe defeat this too (not sure). For the typical indoor WiFi cameras without battery backup, a simple way to detect them could be to turn all breakers off and on, and listen for their motors rotating on startup. Or make the room dark and listen for the click of the IR cut filter switching to night mode or back.
- kragen 1mo agoPeople normally do this by scanning a 10mW 832nm laser with a mirror, according to Dan Gelbart in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MtRxX0crjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MtRxX0crjU. The lecture is 77 minutes, covering nonlinear junction detectors, digital calipers, the US-embassy bug in Russia, laser microphones bounced off windows, and geometric errors from material relaxation. The bit about camera detectors is close to the end. Works for eyeballs too. Lensless sensors (for example, using compressed sensing, or Hadamard shadow masks) can presumably defeat this, but also, watching from far enough away should defeat it. Hard to do that inside a pervert's AirBNB, though.
- mitthrowaway2 1mo agoThe junction detector is a truly brilliant idea that, unfortunately, is probably rendered nearly useless now that everything in the world has embedded electronics in it.
- mitthrowaway2 1mo agoAlso, thinking about it, you could probably defeat the optical retroreflection detector by putting the camera behind a Faraday rotator (optical isolator). But those are quite expensive and you'd need to be really paranoid to use one, plus it'll only really work well if you match the wavelength of the laser.
- amluto 1mo agoYou could also put the camera behind a laser safety goggle lens that blocks the laser in question :)
- mitthrowaway2 1mo agoOh yeah... that's much simpler.
- paul7986 1mo agoFor Meta they need to detect people giving wearers the finger to stop the glasses from recording or taking pics ha I do wear my Metas frequently though would never get the finger cause Im not a creep.
- Eisenstein 1mo agoCan't a thermal camera can do this? It should be able to detect any difference in ambient temp, even a few degrees, and a CMOS sensor gets warm, not to mention any wireless transmitters, power sources, and ICs. Turn off everything in the room and walk around with a ~$100 ali express handheld thermal camera.
- jojobas 1mo agoLED clocks, alarm motion sensors, bluetooth speakers and whatever other appliances also get a bit warm. How would you tell a legit device from one with a milliwatt camera?
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- Eisenstein 1mo agoIf you walk up to it and point the camera at it, you can see a lot of detail about what is going on in the device. Here are some pictures of some ordinary electronics for reference: * https://imgur.com/a/Sp16EfK https://imgur.com/a/Sp16EfK
- xkcd-sucks 1mo agoIdeally yes but in practice thermal cameras measure radiance not temperature and different materials are more or less radiant; putting a camera behind a wall blocks the signal or at least diffuses it; the resolution+SnR are not great at consumer price point; and background objects can be surprisingly warm. For example a tree at night can be about the same temperature as a wireless camera attached to that tree. So in the best case it can work to see power-inefficient devices out in the open, but isn't useful under many real world conditions
- gruntled-worker 1mo agoAnother strategy that's often used is to cause motion then detect the resulting transmission spike. That's also defeatable of course (cache+burst, CBR, etc). The ideal detector should incorporate multiple methods. Someone should make a site that rates these for each detection method then adds them into an overall score.
- Wendell58 1mo agoUsing the phone's existing LED for this is clever. Wonder if the 'AI' is genuinely learning or just a sophisticated reflection analysis.
- thimble_io 1mo agoWonder if it handles the really tiny pinholes effectively. For now, a thermal camera feels more robust for peace of mind.
- holt62 1mo ago[dead]
- salt_pine 1mo agoDefinitely trying this next time I check into an Airbnb. The old flashlight trick is tedious.
- famahar 1mo agoThis is great. Hopefully this device becomes so ubiquitous that it deters anyone from putting up hidden cameras.
- amelius 1mo agoNext thing, hotels will use "microlens wallpaper", so the device becomes practically useless. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector#Countermeasures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector#Co...
- apples_oranges 1mo agothat would be bad for their reputation
- hellweaver666 1mo agoAre hidden cameras in hotel rooms such a concern that normal citizens need to be concerned with it?
- apples_oranges 1mo agoI would assume most Airbnbs have hidden cameras, but that's just a feeling
- j16sdiz 1mo agoThat's a real concern in Korea.
- toss1 1mo agoThe overall article and discussion here is detection, and all the weaknesses of detection. At some point, the only solution will be active destruction. Someone will build something like a multi-wavelength high powered laser device to sweep the room. Arrive, setup the device near the center of the space, set the Start-Timer, leave, return in 3min confident and optical detectors are well fried. I hope it doesn't come to that, but...
- flyinghamster 1mo agoThe trick will be making sure that the entire room isn't also well-fried.