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If your app is just a webpage that forces me to use an app just so you can spy on me I just won't use your product. I've switched brokers over it, I swapped ban

If your app is just a webpage that forces me to use an app just so you can spy on me I just won't use your product. I've switched brokers over it, I swapped banks, I stopped shopping at certain stores. I'm done. The only say I have is in how I spend my money. Those companies won't get any of mine if I can help it. I am the customer, not the product dammit.

ethersteeds 1mo ago
Who are the hall of shame brokers?
aljgz 1mo ago
> The only say I have is in how I spend my money. This. I get Frame.work and install Fedora. Use Firefox for everything possible. Once my current phone dies, I'll get a Fair phone, Motorola, or whatever gives me control. Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience
- steezeburger 1mo ago
  > Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience Uh, yeah you can.
  - jasonvorhe 1mo ago
    Especially if they're actively engaged in making it more and more difficult to escape their platforms: Google force-doxxing developers soon, banks & other charlatans not working on GrapheneOS because sEcUrItY, the list goes on. Most people using this sort of rhetoric probably don't like black kids working in mines and yet they still use devices or cars built off of that produce.
sroussey 1mo ago
Twitter is the worst. You go to a page and scroll down and it banners a beater in the app thing and you can’t dismiss it. You either get the app or close the tab. Close the tab.
- barrell 1mo ago
  Idk Google Maps is pretty bad. Clicking on the search bar force opens the App Store, and trying to load photos does the same and straight up lies to you saying it’s only available in the app. But if you scroll down to the second carousel of images it loads fine in web.
  - Zak 1mo ago
    Google Maps has a better excuse for wanting to be an app than most since a primary use case on mobile is turn-by-turn navigation. That's possible to do in a web page now, but several features that improve the experience are not available in browsers.
    - cozzyd 1mo ago
      I'm annoyed by a different thing ... It used to be when you searched for something, maps would always be a tab for results. Now it doesn't seem to be anymore...
      - ButlerianJihad 1mo ago
        What you need to do, in the modern Web, is to flip that around. Anytime I need to search an entity with physical presence, I use Google Maps first. Maps is very good about getting the first result as intended and not showing superfluous non-matches. Maps will not chirp up with AI-generated responses. Maps will take me right to the place I want, and I can see a lot of profile info at-a-glance, and if I wanted their website, then Maps will give me their main website, and nothing else. Whether it's a corporate HQ, a clinic, a local restaurant, or a geographic area, Maps can come up with a lot of relevant info and I don't waste my time in an enshittified Search. So I'm thankful for the Maps app and its mobile integrations.
        cozzyd 1mo ago
        yeah, but in practice it used to be easier to type in the search bar and then click the maps tab...
m463 1mo ago
Can't buy a tesla without the app. Worse, to sell a tesla, you are the person saying "ok, install the app, then I can transfer ownership to you, conveniently!" and this is getting normalized with other car manufacturers. (and it ALL goes back to apple... who started the whole app nonsense, and promoted a look-and-feel that gave tesla a terrible tap and swipe iphone/ipad type ui in a moving car)
- Sindisil 1mo ago
  > Can't buy a tesla without the app. Works for me. No Tesla it is, then. Not the only reason, but one of several.
- jinimojkg 1mo ago
  > that gave tesla a terrible tap and swipe iphone/ipad type ui in a moving car Not sure why you’re blaming Apple for Tesla’s mistake of thinking a phone UI is appropriate for a car system UI. Besides, you can “trace it back” to anyone you want really. The problem is not Apple. The problem is people accepting this nonsense from bullshit companies and apps in the first place.
  - m463 1mo ago
    apple sets an example
- Whatarethese 1mo ago
  You can absolutely buy a Tesla and operate it for the life of the vehicle without an app or even a smartphone. They have key fobs and keycards for this purpose. Go into the store or order online. Everything can be handled by the Tesla store if you are selling the car and need to transfer it to another person.
  - olyjohn 1mo ago
    Excuse me? Why does Tesla need to be involved at all? Take the title to the DMV and transfer it.
jader201 1mo ago
> I am the customer, not the product dammit. That’s an illusion that died a long time ago, unfortunately. Just because you’re using their service on a browser doesn’t stop them from harvesting data from your usage, especially if you’re logging in (and if you’re using their services, chances are that you are). Using browser over app can help, but it doesn’t eliminate it. Like it or not, we’re the product, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
- radicalbyte 1mo ago
  They're not able to spy on all the other websites I visit or apps I use via the browsers in the way they are by forcing me to install spyware on the spyware machines from Apple and Google.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Chrome supports invasive APIs like WebUSB for a reason.
    - radicalbyte 28d ago
      People use Chrome in 2026? O_O
  - frizlab 1mo ago
    I’m pretty sure they actually can actually. On an iPhone with a “ask for no tracking” configuration (no IDFA), I’d wager it’s probably even easier on the web than it is in an app.
- azalemeth 1mo ago
  Using umatrix or a monkey script and selectively editing what their website does, however, certainly help with privacy.
- KingMob 1mo ago
  Yeah, Doctorow articulated that pretty well back in 2022: https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/ https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/ tl;dr Any company that likes money and has power over their customers, will happily treat them as products to the extent it can get away with.
cavoirom 1mo ago
I agree with you. But some time the social aspect in our life force us to to make compromise.
IndySun 1mo ago
Well said. Are there any mainstream apps "website as app" that do not come with the spying/telemetry/doxing (given on a plate by our two choices, ios/android) that almost always comes with them?

ethersteeds 1mo ago

Who are the hall of shame brokers?

aljgz 1mo ago

> The only say I have is in how I spend my money. This. I get Frame.work and install Fedora. Use Firefox for everything possible. Once my current phone dies, I'll get a Fair phone, Motorola, or whatever gives me control. Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience

steezeburger 1mo ago
> Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience Uh, yeah you can.
- jasonvorhe 1mo ago
  Especially if they're actively engaged in making it more and more difficult to escape their platforms: Google force-doxxing developers soon, banks & other charlatans not working on GrapheneOS because sEcUrItY, the list goes on. Most people using this sort of rhetoric probably don't like black kids working in mines and yet they still use devices or cars built off of that produce.

sroussey 1mo ago

Twitter is the worst. You go to a page and scroll down and it banners a beater in the app thing and you can’t dismiss it. You either get the app or close the tab. Close the tab.

barrell 1mo ago
Idk Google Maps is pretty bad. Clicking on the search bar force opens the App Store, and trying to load photos does the same and straight up lies to you saying it’s only available in the app. But if you scroll down to the second carousel of images it loads fine in web.
- Zak 1mo ago
  Google Maps has a better excuse for wanting to be an app than most since a primary use case on mobile is turn-by-turn navigation. That's possible to do in a web page now, but several features that improve the experience are not available in browsers.
  - cozzyd 1mo ago
    I'm annoyed by a different thing ... It used to be when you searched for something, maps would always be a tab for results. Now it doesn't seem to be anymore...
    - ButlerianJihad 1mo ago
      What you need to do, in the modern Web, is to flip that around. Anytime I need to search an entity with physical presence, I use Google Maps first. Maps is very good about getting the first result as intended and not showing superfluous non-matches. Maps will not chirp up with AI-generated responses. Maps will take me right to the place I want, and I can see a lot of profile info at-a-glance, and if I wanted their website, then Maps will give me their main website, and nothing else. Whether it's a corporate HQ, a clinic, a local restaurant, or a geographic area, Maps can come up with a lot of relevant info and I don't waste my time in an enshittified Search. So I'm thankful for the Maps app and its mobile integrations.
      - cozzyd 1mo ago
        yeah, but in practice it used to be easier to type in the search bar and then click the maps tab...

m463 1mo ago

Can't buy a tesla without the app. Worse, to sell a tesla, you are the person saying "ok, install the app, then I can transfer ownership to you, conveniently!" and this is getting normalized with other car manufacturers. (and it ALL goes back to apple... who started the whole app nonsense, and promoted a look-and-feel that gave tesla a terrible tap and swipe iphone/ipad type ui in a moving car)

Sindisil 1mo ago
> Can't buy a tesla without the app. Works for me. No Tesla it is, then. Not the only reason, but one of several.
jinimojkg 1mo ago
> that gave tesla a terrible tap and swipe iphone/ipad type ui in a moving car Not sure why you’re blaming Apple for Tesla’s mistake of thinking a phone UI is appropriate for a car system UI. Besides, you can “trace it back” to anyone you want really. The problem is not Apple. The problem is people accepting this nonsense from bullshit companies and apps in the first place.
- m463 1mo ago
  apple sets an example
Whatarethese 1mo ago
You can absolutely buy a Tesla and operate it for the life of the vehicle without an app or even a smartphone. They have key fobs and keycards for this purpose. Go into the store or order online. Everything can be handled by the Tesla store if you are selling the car and need to transfer it to another person.
- olyjohn 1mo ago
  Excuse me? Why does Tesla need to be involved at all? Take the title to the DMV and transfer it.

jader201 1mo ago

> I am the customer, not the product dammit. That’s an illusion that died a long time ago, unfortunately. Just because you’re using their service on a browser doesn’t stop them from harvesting data from your usage, especially if you’re logging in (and if you’re using their services, chances are that you are). Using browser over app can help, but it doesn’t eliminate it. Like it or not, we’re the product, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

radicalbyte 1mo ago
They're not able to spy on all the other websites I visit or apps I use via the browsers in the way they are by forcing me to install spyware on the spyware machines from Apple and Google.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Chrome supports invasive APIs like WebUSB for a reason.
  - radicalbyte 28d ago
    People use Chrome in 2026? O_O
- frizlab 1mo ago
  I’m pretty sure they actually can actually. On an iPhone with a “ask for no tracking” configuration (no IDFA), I’d wager it’s probably even easier on the web than it is in an app.
azalemeth 1mo ago
Using umatrix or a monkey script and selectively editing what their website does, however, certainly help with privacy.
KingMob 1mo ago
Yeah, Doctorow articulated that pretty well back in 2022: https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/ https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/ tl;dr Any company that likes money and has power over their customers, will happily treat them as products to the extent it can get away with.

cavoirom 1mo ago

I agree with you. But some time the social aspect in our life force us to to make compromise.

IndySun 1mo ago

Well said. Are there any mainstream apps "website as app" that do not come with the spying/telemetry/doxing (given on a plate by our two choices, ios/android) that almost always comes with them?