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I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.
by BatFastard 1mo ago
I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all.
I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.
- ortusdux 1mo agoNot only that, they have the highest ratio of brain-to-body-mass of any invertebrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence
- hermitcrab 1mo agoYes, so maybe think twice before eating one.
- PowerElectronix 1mo agoThey're too delicious to consider how smart they are.
- testaccount28 1mo ago[flagged]
- unethical_ban 1mo agoI cannot judge too harshly, since I still eat many kinds of animal. However, I never ate octopus growing up, and I learned of their intelligence before I tried it more than a few times. It was easier to "never start" than to quit. And besides, octopus is not that great and if you insist on eating seafood I find pretty much any other item to have more enjoyable texture.
- slowin 1mo agoOctopus is the only animal I've ever stopped eating due to ethical concerns (not that I'm against examining my relationship with other animals). That being said, it's really delicious if you get it fresh. It just so happens that it's very rare (in the US) to get fresh octopus. I liked tako nigiri and grilled octopus, Mediterranean style. The taste and texture difference between fresh and not fresh is huge though. Probably another great reason not to eat them!
- idiotsecant 1mo agoThis is almost certainly equally or more valid for pigs. Pigs have the unfortunate property of being much tastier than octopus, though.
- mc32 1mo agoSome people enjoy eating live baby octopuses. To me that is an odd delicacy -but then some Americans like shucking Oysters too, so I can't be critical.
- Modified3019 1mo agoOn the context of ethics, oysters are probably the safest thing from the animal kingdom to eat. They’re really the closest thing we have to a meat based plant. Many who consider themselves vegan have no issues wasting them.
- PowerElectronix 1mo agoI wanna say that despite being extremely intelligent for a mollusk, they are not intelligent at all compared with other animals like dophins, whales, etc, that not only can communicate with each other, but also develop a culture in their groups. Octopus are smart for what they are, but not smart enough to think of them as being superior to pigs or cows intelligence-wise.
- Xorakios 1mo agoI don't eat octopus or veal. Delicious or not, there are some lines that perhaps should not be crossed.
- monegator 1mo agothey are indeed, which is why it was so difficult to stop eating them... just like popplers!
- bayganyo 1mo agoI find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.
- micromacrofoot 1mo agoI like to see where they are farmed before I decide... and having seen much of that in the US I've landed on "maybe some bugs are ok to eat."
- sinsterizme 1mo agoCan you explain?
- GMoromisato 1mo agoFirst time talking to humans? We distinguish murder from killing because the latter is sometimes justified (e.g., in war or self-defense). We justify everything we do.
- jerrysneede 1mo agoyou mean you don't think it's right to make a creature take an IQ test before deciding to eat them or not? "Yes, right, well, you seem sufficiently stupid enough to ingest."
- Dylan16807 1mo agoThere are hazards to doing it on an individual level, but on a species level sure why not? Between a talking plant and a brainless bovine I know which one I'd say is the obvious right answer to eat (assume both species occurred naturally for this thought experiment).
- idiotsecant 1mo agoI find it interesting how people vaguepost without managing to make any semblance of contribution to the discussion
- King-Aaron 1mo agoPersonally that justification is based heavily on the taste.
- GMoromisato 1mo agoMy wife stopped eating octopus after seeing the giant Pacific octopus in the Monterey aquarium. The way it stares at you hints at a real intelligence. Maybe the smaller species aren't that smart, but why take the chance?
- colechristensen 1mo agoI'm pretty convinced we could discuss philosophy with octopus friends if they didn't all die immediately after reproducing.
- King-Aaron 1mo agoDon't kid yourself Jimmy, if an octopus ever got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about!
- colechristensen 1mo agoSo would a primitive human.
- mrheosuper 1mo agoThat's why cannibalism was so popular back in the day.
- King-Aaron 1mo agoSo would a cow
- suriyaG 1mo agoeating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). octopus passing a intelligence test does not keep it above the fold, neither does cattle go below the fold because they don't clear the bar (surprise, cattle are equally emotional, smart, curious etc.). sounds wrong when I type it out but that is just the truth. milk is actually more ethically wrong when you think about it (isolating a calf from its mom to steal its food.) doing one or the other does not absolve us. because one is more commonly accepted than the other
- pitched 1mo agohttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28926931/ > Compared with meat-eaters, vegetarians were more likely to have a higher educational level, whereas vegans had a lower education level I think it’s good to question these things but the people who go full black/white on everything is where that whole movement died. Saying something strong like “eating any meat” will generally not win over hackers. But “we won’t bring cows to Mars” might work better.
- colordrops 1mo agoI wonder how many of these "self-reported" vegans were true ethical vegans vs instgram influencer, "I eat chicken once a week" vegans. Also, what's your point? Is there a proven direct correlation between ethics/morals and educational level? And even if there were, does that imply that this less educated group is as a whole completely wrong? And are you implying that ethics and morals were even objective and measureable? I mean, completely no idea what you are getting at here.
- pitched 1mo agoThe linked study does show that correlation. But I personally believe it’s more of a second-order effect. Vegetarianism selects for openness and analytical/reflective thinking but the extra step to veganism selects for absolutism/purity and rigid category-based thinking. Reflective thinking and openness are definitely correlated to IQ so I believe the result in the article. The point here is to know your audience. The people on this site are perfectly primed to respond well to a vegetarian/environmental point of view.
- colordrops 1mo agoI hope people say the same about all animals, but especially mammals.
- blamestross 1mo agoOctopi essentially consent. They are avid cannibals. In the octopi universe eating an octopi is clearly ok.
- teravor 1mo agois there a case for a long lived animal being a cannibal? I would imagine that prion risk will select for aversion.
- aziaziazi 1mo agoSalmons decay after spawning, then die. Their offspring eat the nutrients presents in the water, including their parents leftovers.
- fittingopposite 1mo agoFyi octopus is a Greek not Latin word (meaning 8 feet) and its correct plural would be rather octopodes.
- Nursie 1mo agoOctopi is equally correct because we're speaking English and frequency of use trumps etymological cromulence. Octopuses works too. I quite like "Octopods" because -podes is unusual in English, though not entirely absent (see Antipodes). (I'm not sure "an Octopi" is correct in any of these cases!)
- jamiejquinn 1mo agoDing ding! We've found our best candidate for ambassador to a newly discovered alien species!
- blamestross 1mo agoI'd go, fully expecting to be eaten for the good of mankind.
- bahmboo 1mo agoThe flip side is that they have very short lives. But I can see space aliens saying the same thing about humans.
- huseyinkeles 1mo agoI heard this many times before, same thing with the pigs as well, which are another very smart species of animal. Based on the same logic, is it ethical to eat a human if they are mentally disabled or not passing some IQ test?
- vasco 1mo agoNo, don't think too much because you'll be sad. Better to pretend its just dumb tasty meat.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- goatlover 1mo agoIt's like 9 brains, one central one in the head and 8 semi-autonomous ones in the arms. Makes one wonder what an octopus consciousness is like. Is it distributed among the nine brains, or focused on the central one? If the latter then the arm-brains would be zombie minds. It's also possible the 8 arms have their own separate experiences. We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experience the full body, but the neural signals are sent to one location, not nine. We experience ourselves as a unified hole, allowing exceptions for certain conditions.
- cgriswald 1mo agoIf you haven't read it, you might enjoy Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time series. It's fiction which explores different intelligences, with the second novel[0] dealing specifically with octopuses. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Ruin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Ruin
- bookofjoe 1mo agoOther Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness [excellent] https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374537194/ref=sr_1_6?crid=39DD9O3BJSFKK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.dKRxZcP7701mXpZaHyWgUonWqhEud6wUPleWU9EQKbHhyjp5ob0EUr3cKlQVum8VDUtv9Wb9m1--pslFOXZCrZIHbRQCYTkLv4eWC6E4P89lM3ZHE4zebnF6G41aNV6PSKFjCnyxC70q6a_dd4F4sncQG7jTzUJ7ezMvzP6EYvjwWElmcT24zPIRdsugaMdA-IVrLD_joL6SqyumwElcNdhqX5mHkv40DO363BN_jxA.0NR3vMU6cj1xkdTAXUJBIjjc4R2gbxFjU0Zy8yjwoPs&dib_tag=se&keywords=Octopus&qid=1787606901&s=books&sprefix=octopus%2Cstripbooks%2C136&sr=1-6 https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Conscious...
- VorpalWay 1mo ago> We also have a nervous system distributed throughout our bodies, so we do experience the full body, but the neural signals are sent to one location, not nine. Mostly yes. But we do have some processing that bypasses the brain: reflexes for example. The classic example is the kick reflex that doctors test with a small mallet on your knee. Or when you blink as something flies towards your eyes. It happens and your brain gets informed afterwards. But there are degrees of non-conscious processing, from the heart beating by itself and your guts doing their things, to the breath which will be on autopilot until you take control over it, to entirely voluntary things like moving about your limbs (for healthy individuals). Maybe the octopuses experience their disconnected brains somewhere on that spectra, where the limbs are semi-autonomous unless it focuses on them? (All we can do is speculate, there is no known way to learn the qualia of being an octupus.)
- adolph 1mo agoYou might find the recent Theories of Everything podcast interview [0] with Peter Godfrey-Smith interesting. Godfrey-Smith is the author of "Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness," which is a great read to delve further. Two other interesting aspects of cephalopods: * Make many more changes to RNA than other invertebrates [2] * Have only one type of light sensing cell in eyes, so may detect color by chromatic aberration 0. https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/p/peter-godfrey-smith-this-scientist-6e9 https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/p/peter-godfrey-smith-thi... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Minds:_The_Octopus,_the_Sea,_and_the_Deep_Origins_of_Consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Minds:_The_Octopus,_the_... 2. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/octopus-squid-rna-editing-dna-cephalopods https://www.sciencenews.org/article/octopus-squid-rna-editin... 3. https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/07/05/weird-pupils-let-octopuses-see-their-colorful-gardens/ https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/07/05/weird-pupils-let-octopu...
- georgeecollins 1mo agoYep, they do some cognition in their arms. You also do some processing in your ears and your eyes. There is a lot of evidence that you learn to recognize certain stimulus in the neurons outside of the "brain".
- fragmede 1mo agoSmells are a strong indicator of this, with smells able to invoke memories in a way that nothing else can.
- stevenwoo 1mo agoIn some sense this (not as literally as this case, but in measurable scientific tests) is true for other species. Processing is demonstrated to be distributed through sense organs in the frog in What the Frogs Eye Tells the Frogs Brain https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4065609 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4065609, i.e. in frogs at least, the eye is not like a camera sending pixels to its brain
- Nursie 1mo ago> I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body. Yep, distributed around, though with concentrations in some areas. They have a concentration of neurons in a sort of doughnut shape gathered around the mouth and oesophagus area, their gullet actually goes through the middle of their most dense brain area. Very large potential for ice-cream headaches right there.
- fragmede 1mo agoIf they eat something too big they literally break their brain and become stupid.
- teekert 1mo agoShould have read the Children of Time series (Adrian Tchaikovsky) ;)
- thesz 1mo ago> I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body. Our skin cells communicate in a neuron-like fashion, albeit much more slowly: https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-found-the-silent-scream-of-human-skin-for-the-first-time https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-found-the-silent-scr...