8 ms·

Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

651 points by exceptione 2mo ago

exceptione 2mo ago
"The initial devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027. The initial devices will be flagships so they'll be higher end hardware than Pixels at a higher price. Lower end devices will take more time to meet our requirements since the updates and security features aren't as good. It's mostly due to how Qualcomm handles it. The latest Snapdragon flagships have the best security features. We'll also need Motorola to start paying them for longer updates below flagships."
- tortasaur 2mo ago
  I don't doubt they will cost more than the Pixel line, but I'm somewhat skeptical that the hardware will be higher quality. Perhaps my idea of what Motorola is capable of is outdated.
  - kvuj 2mo ago
    Realistically, most smartphones are made by the same ODMs. Since they don't make their own screens, shells, CPUs or modems, the only thing being set apart is the software.
    - Aachen 2mo ago
      Except that it's all Android? I'm not selecting which phone I buy on whether the stock OS comes with lockscreen shortcuts. At best, a software requirement someone might use as a deciding factor is OS support and bootloader unlock. The real differences are in hardware: size, battery life, chipset speed, RAM or other local model enablers, picture quality (this part also depends on good software to be fair), included accessories, satellite connectivity hardware, headphone jack, gimmicks like UWB or FM radio support, whether it's a flip/fold phone, storage space / sdcard support... all hardware differences
      - bigfishrunning 2mo ago
        > Except that it's all Android? If only this were true. Samsung makes arguably the best hardware, but I refuse to buy a phone with Facebook pre-loaded and unremovable, a second (worse) app store preloaded and unremovable, and a bunch of redundant samsung-branded copies of the google apps. The best android images are as close to vanilla AOSP android as possible -- this used to mean Sony or Google branded phones, except Sony doesn't really market phones in the United States anymore and the Pixel phones are diverging from AOSP
        drnick1 2mo ago
        The good news though is that by replacing the Pixel's stock OS by Graphene, you get something close to AOSP and arguably better. The hardware is nothing to write home about, but the phones are well priced and the bootloaders are unlockable.
        Aachen 2mo ago
        I'm writing this from a Samsung. Their store software hasn't ever gotten in the way and I like most of the UI changes they made besides the extra apps that you can mostly hide or remove (in my case especially because root, but alas I'd not encourage anyone to buy Samsung anymore without the option to control the hardware as if you own it) Not to defend Samsung specifically, just that most phones' software is fine after a bit of setup whereas you can't download more RAM (don't believe the scams that are out there! :P). Even on Huawei I remember there were some things better than on stock but forgot what specifically (the only thing that comes to mind was a lockscreen menu that you could open with a gesture and I used all the time) Apropos Sony, that was the only brand where I kept having issues because my mom, who had the phone, constantly had questions about what to do with some notification that the OS was pushing and we couldn't get rid of. Basically product ads, iirc to try this-or-that app or function I do get what you mean about bloatware, just that it's more of a tie-breaker (saving you an hour of debloating, assuming you stay on stock) as compared to the permanent differences in hardware capabilities
  - ai-astrologer 2mo ago
    Google’s Tensor chipset is weak by modern standards, and Motorola is taking the strongest off the shelf processors from the best mobile chip designer (Qualcomm).
    - scrlk 2mo ago
      Plus the Samsung Exynos modems that they were using from Pixel 6-10 (11 switched to Mediatek) had worse power efficiency and performance vs Qualcomm.
    - IAmBroom 2mo ago
      So...what's your comment? Opposing Motorola's comment, in that they already buy the best? Supporting, in that their standards haven't dropped?
      - ai-astrologer 2mo ago
        Comparing GrapheneOS on Google’s Pixel vs Motorola’s new phone. (I expect Motorola’s future offering to be more performant.)
  - ernst_klim 2mo ago
    Pixel itself is very mediocre hardware, it's not hard to surpass. The battery is my main problem with it, my current pixel can't barely survive half a day of usage.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
LoganDark 2mo ago
If they only "should" be available in 2027, that sounds like late 2027.
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  Iirc they said they will be able to release Android updates like Android 17, for example, at the time it's released. This year it was a few weeks until it came to stable. This somewhat indicates to me it will be available when the Motorolas release which should be on their regular release patterns. That's been May for the 2025 and 2026 Razrs.
virajk_31 2mo ago
I bought the Moto signature a month ago , I already assumed it prolly won't support graphene, since some of the previous replies on X indicate that the graphene team requires full hardware compliance with their requirements, and the Signature apparently is not compliant yet. Anyway I ended up buying a really good smartphone.. just not a graphene supported haha :( Also this is really great collab from moto & graphene as more vendors will officially recognize Graphene as legit OS (legel/OEM is different concept). I heard month ago Volkswagen banned graphene, hopefully we we will see moving things in opposite direction...
- hypfer 2mo ago
  They didn't "ban" them, but they did enable some attestation feature that effectively "bans" anything that isn't Google Android. Which still makes you wonder why Volkswagen is so keen on alienating what little is left of their customer base with completely stupid security theater.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Because the EU is run by lawyers and lawsuits. They probably decided there was a risk of being sued for insufficient security if they didn't enable every security feature, and they considered it as zero impact to customers because nobody uses graphene.
    - hypfer 2mo ago
      Yes, but that is still very confusing to me, because you're not paying other people money so that they just follow incentives without thinking, vision or backbone. The whole idea of buying something is giving people money for their (assumed correct) judgement, which then leads to desired artifacts downstream.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        No, the idea of buying is that you get something in exchange for money.
unfocso 2mo ago
A year ago or so, the ThinkPhone 23 (Snapdragon 8, 2023, a weird "flagship") was available for 229€ new on various retail stores. The phone also supports Mobian/PostmarketOS and the bootloader is unlockable with no adverse effects. Out of nowhere, it received (along with other older phones) updates up to Android 16. I wouldn't be surprised if the "sudden" update was just a side effect of Motorola preparing for Graphene to be released on these older phones.
- StingyJelly 2mo ago
  Not sure about other phones, but ThinkPhone 23 was supposed to get Android 16 anyway https://www.androidauthority.com/lenovo-thinkphone-hands-on-3262084/ https://www.androidauthority.com/lenovo-thinkphone-hands-on-...
  - kotaKat 2mo ago
    I have a 'long life' Android device (Zebra EM45) that has only recently gotten its Android 15 updates; its committed through Android 16 so I assume it's also waiting on Qualcomm to get its act together and in gear for whatever final patches are required for the QCS5430. IIRC, QCOMM is promising "10 years" on the CPU.
- ledoge 2mo ago
  No current Motorola phones meet their hardware requirements. 2027 flagship models will be the first to be supported. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2058730195041812839 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2058730195041812839 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2064124713501163912 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2064124713501163912
  - unfocso 2mo ago
    Oh, that's unfortunate. I thought they meant support would be released in 2027, not that phones from 2027 would be supported only. :(
nunobrito 2mo ago
[flagged]
- m00dy 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - asf1279 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - officeplant 2mo ago
      >Of course they'll say they couldn't read it if they are after his contacts and network rather than after him. From what a friend working in a state police cyber crime office says, "Cellebrite can't currently, unless its a Graphene OS user that's far behind on updates" They also said iOS is equally safe unless you're an update or two behind.
      - Cider9986 2mo ago
        GrapheneOS seems to do better than anything else at preventing AFU exploitation based on the leaks. iOS will be quite good BFU but on iOS the auto reboot (brings phone to BFU after 72 hours without unlocking) is, well, 72 hours. On GrapheneOS it's 18 by default and can be as low as 10 minutes. Good luck on that, Cellebrite :)
  - dwedge 2mo ago
    I ran Graphene without a Sim card for 2 months and as soon as I added a Sim card (with of course, difficult to vet networking) the phone is always hot and the battery life reduced by half. Might be a coincidence but also made me rethink how I feel about Graphene
    - zache6 2mo ago
      What Pixel do you have? Modem quality varies and signal strength could play a role. My 9a gets hot in areas with poor reception but is fine at work where I get over a gigabit down.
Retr0id 2mo ago
> the updates and security features aren't as good [on lower end Motorola devices] Having looked at some low-end Motorolas recently, this is accurate (albeit an understatement!)
tfrancisl 2mo ago
I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.
- dethos 2mo ago
  Yes, there's SailfishOS, there's Ubuntu Touch, and a couple more. It would be nice if one of them could gain traction so people can have a third choice.
- Gigachad 2mo ago
  Because you need app support. Not even Microsoft could pull that off.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Doesn't windows run android apps natively now?
    - dzikimarian 2mo ago
      It doesn't. There was a plan, but Microsoft abandoned it.
      - AstralSerenity 2mo ago
        They did end up releasing Windows Subsystem for Android via the Windows Insider Program, which was enough for the OSS community to take it over after it was abandoned. It still exists and has worked quite well for my use case: https://github.com/MustardChef/WSABuilds https://github.com/MustardChef/WSABuilds
  - nextaccountic 2mo ago
    What about running the whole Android infrastructure, but on top of a non-Android Linux distro? And this, on top of a Android kernel (otherwise you won't have the drivers yo uneed) The advantage being, we can manage packages using a regular Linux distro
mrdoe 2mo ago
[flagged]
- afavour 2mo ago
  Tell me you're in a bubble without telling me you're in a bubble. (Mastodon is, of course, also a bubble. But largely by design. A lot of more tech-leaning folks decamped there any stayed there) EDIT: ah, OP is just a troll that only ever seems to comment when someone mentions a short form social media network that isn't Twitter.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- StrLght 2mo ago
  Because it doesn't spam you with dickovers suggesting you log in when you open the link. But you're not really interested in this, are you?
Cider9986 2mo ago
Specific devices: >At the time of writing, within ~12 months, in 2027, the 2027 Signature, Razr fold, and Razr flip will meet the hardware security requirements and should have official GrapheneOS support. Motorola is currently porting GrapheneOS to their devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982
- Arrowmaster 2mo ago
  The 2026 Signature doesn't appear to be for sale in the US. Does this mean we have to wait for the lower end devices if we don't want a fold/flip?
  - Noaidi 2mo ago
    Wow, I do not think any of these phones are available in the U.S.
    - milkytron 2mo ago
      The Flip and Fold are. I see them available on the Motorola US store page.
- LarryDarrell 2mo ago
  I knew it would be their higher end devices but I really wish they would have put it on their lower end as well. I have a Moto G running LineageOS and it's my favorite phone ever. The ability to have my 800GB of music synced to a sdcard is something I'm loath to give up.
  - BoldColdHold 2mo ago
    Lower end devices simply don't have the hardware required.
    - cosmic_cheese 2mo ago
      I would bet that what Motorola can change without trouble on the lower end is more restricted, too. Generally low end models use more parts that are old, off the shelf, and/or shared with several other models to keep costs low, and so major changes can quickly balloon costs.
felooboolooomba 2mo ago
[flagged]
- J-Kuhn 2mo ago
  Yeah, its the "well, legally, we have to provide the source code, but we make it as painful and slow for you as we can without it becoming a blatant violation of the GPL."
  - RobotToaster 2mo ago
    Not quite, they could make you request it by post and send it on a stack of floppies.
    - steve_taylor 2mo ago
      Sounds like a cheap way to get my hands on some floppies.
      - afiori 2mo ago
        you are right a stack of printed qr codes is better
        heftig 2mo ago
        No, that's too easily machine-read. Print it in a fancy calligraphy font or one with ambiguous characters.
        newswasboring 2mo ago
        That's too convenient, cameras can read many qr codes at a time. Encode the binary on some punch cards.
        eptcyka 2mo ago
        Pretty sure cameras can be used to read punchcards too.
rh94 2mo ago
Anyone has any idea if this changes current situation with nfc payments? Currently many banking apps do not work, and google pay is just unavailable, to my understanding it was related to secure chip on phone - as graphene wasnt "stocked" android os approved by google, i dearly hope this chnages with motorola
- shaky-carrousel 2mo ago
  I have a GrapheneOS phone and I pay with Curve.
  - Kenji 2mo ago
    [dead]
  - rh94 2mo ago
    I had plenty of troubles with curve, garmine watches is alternative, but fingers crossed that motorola phones works better
- petepete 2mo ago
  Me too. My two requirements for a device are: * Being able to pay for stuff * My blood glucose sensors work (Librelink) If they worked on a dumbphone, I'd have a dumbphone.
  - grapheneos 2mo ago
    Tap-to-pay is available on GrapheneOS in Europe. Your profile implies you're in the UK where Curve Pay is available. There are also banking apps in the EU with working tap-to-pay but we aren't sure if any of the UK banks provide it without Google Pay. 90% of banking apps do already work on GrapheneOS: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... > If they worked on a dumbphone, I'd have a dumbphone. A dumb phone won't provide any form of secure calls or texts. People should migrate away from carrier-based calls to the extent possible rather than towards it. A dumb phone is also entirely reliant on cellular instead of being able to use Wi-Fi instead.
closingreunion 2mo ago
I wonder if this could enable a samsung dex-style desktop mode
jauntywundrkind 2mo ago
Anyone want to place bets in whether this will be an unlockable bootloader, or some GrapheneOS only install path? Sure would be nice to have phones that can be rooted, or OS replaced. I've been hopeful this would perhaps enable that, but I fret my excitement may be premature.
- gf000 2mo ago
  If google allows that for pixels, I don't see why Motorola wouldn't. Besides, GrapheneOS would probably don't want to get into a situation where their keys are burnt into hardware non-modifiable. They had to revoke such a key once in order to protect their users (against an attempt to hijack the project).
  - grapheneos 2mo ago
    Providing an unlockable bootloader with all of the security features intact for alternate operating systems is part of our hardware requirements. Our main requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices which covers both updates and hardware security features.
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Providing an unlockable bootloader with all of the security features intact for alternate operating systems is part of our hardware requirements. Our main requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices which covers both updates and hardware security features.
matheusmoreira 2mo ago
Looking forward to this! Google is not competent enough to sell Pixels worldwide, it's a pain in the ass to buy one!
throwfaraway135 2mo ago
I get that you don't like Twitter/Facebook/Reddit or whatever, but a clear solution to this problem is to hurt googles public image as much as you can and for that you need a platform with as large of a reach as possible. edit: they have X but didn't post it there https://x.com/GrapheneOS https://x.com/GrapheneOS
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  They post on Twitter more than anywhere else. This was a reply not a announcement or post. There are likely similar replies to this on their Twitter. Their communication is a goldmine for privacy and security info so even replies can be interesting enough to start discussion. They have official chatrooms on Matrix and Discord and a forum on their website. They have unofficial (but run by them) chatrooms on SimpleX and Telegram and maybe other platforms idk. They are not about avoiding big tech specifically, they make practical choices to improve privacy and security of their users. Here's a statement with some ethos. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2044440381803069778#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2044440381803069778#m
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  This wasn't an announcement with any new information. It was a reply to a question with existing public information. We've repeatedly posted the same information on X in response to similar questions.
therealmarv 2mo ago
I just wonder how they handle full Google's certification for hardware integrity + Google Play Store with GrapheneOS. They contradict on this part on the normal GrapheneOS mod and I don't see a way how they will not on Motorola phones. Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. But it will be interesting times once they are out!
- Youden 2mo ago
  > Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. You've misunderstood something here. Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". I'm running Revolut and most of my banking apps on GrapheneOS right now. In my experience, there are two major categories of incompatibility: - High levels of Google Play Integrity checks: app only works on releases of Android that have been allowlisted by Google. The only app that does this for me so far is McDonalds. - Commercial root detection APIs: some of GrapheneOS' security features like "Secure App Spawning" trip root detection heuristics. This is the kind of incompatibility I usually run into for banking apps. You can disable individual features on a per-app basis these days to get around this.
  - Cider9986 2mo ago
    >Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". It's not happening for everyone but unfortunately: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2085154315799314918#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2085154315799314918#m
    - lawn 2mo ago
      That's really unfortunate. Revolut has luckily been working well for me but time will tell...
Noaidi 2mo ago
This is good news but not so much good news for us poors. I was waiting four this announcement in hopes of getting away from google totally but with the 2026 Moto Signature going for $1000 I am sure the 2027 will be more so I will probably get Pixel 10 instead. Maybe this will lighten the price on the Pixel 10's though...
- catlikesshrimp 2mo ago
  All other phones will have a higher price tag due to memory hogging by datacenters. How much will that google pixel 10 be when the motorolla phone arrives?
- fooqux 2mo ago
  If this is successful, I can see this trickling down to the lower end phones in the following years. If for no other reason than keeping their hardware as similar as possible.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - grapheneos 2mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49368750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49368750
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Motorola's flagships are going to be their first devices providing the updates and hardware-based security features required by GrapheneOS. It will come to lower end devices but it will take longer. Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 is the first Qualcomm SoC with hardware memory tagging (MTE). MTE isn't even available on the slightly lower end Snapdragon 8 Gen 5. A lot of the SoC security features are segmented based on price and only the flagship SoC platform has everything we need. Snapdragon's upcoming next generation SoC is the first truly providing everything we need. There's still a lot of work to do since providing the features on paper is different from having those fully integrated to match what we have on Pixels.
DemiGuru 2mo ago
How does the GrapheneOS threat model account for baseband or firmware-level supply chain risks on Lenovo/Motorola hardware, given their historical consumer security incidents like Superfish? Is the open-source attestation sufficient to mitigate hardware-level tampering?
bushwart 2mo ago
High end Motorola phones :((( where is my Graphene flip phone?
- fph 2mo ago
  It's reportedly going to be available on the 2027 version of the Razr Flip https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-2026/pmipmjl44m7?pn=PBB70003US https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-2026/pmipm...
  - grapheneos 2mo ago
    It will likely be able to support the 2027 variant of the Razr Ultra. It may be another year before we can support the devices a step down from the flagships. It mainly depends on when the lower end Qualcomm SoC adds the security features we need, if Motorola switches to Qualcomm from MediaTek for more of the non-flagship devices and when Motorola can commit to providing longer updates for those. We're likely only going to support Snapdragon Motorola devices for the time being but it could expand further in the future when another SoC platform has what we need too. https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-ultra-2026/pmipmjk44m3?pn=PBB30003US https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-ultra-2026... is the Razr Ultra 2026.
- abrowne 2mo ago
  Next gen of the Razr Ultra at least, according to another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49363702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49363702
florianherrengt 2mo ago
I'm surprised it took them that long. I always found it odd that they would support Google phones only.
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Pixels are the only devices providing the updates and hardware-based security features required by GrapheneOS. Motorola and Qualcomm are improving their hardware so future devices will all of our requirements. Motorola will provide us what we need to provide proper updates and is helping us port to their devices. We'll have their support to keep it working well. GrapheneOS needs a lot of hardware related work for our security features. Our hardware requirements are listed here, but our features also need to be ported to the hardware such as getting hardware memory tagging working for the whole kernel and userspace: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
florianherrengt 2mo ago
I was hoping for Fairphone support but they said it's not happening. > Fairphones lack the updates and hardware-based security features expected by GrapheneOS. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2089937246619128257 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2089937246619128257
zuzululu 2mo ago
it'd be great if you could dual boot with grapheneos hidden right now if you have it with you graphene just needlessly raises suspicions, its unjustified but thats what it is
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  GrapheneOS currently has around half a million users but the userbase is rapidly growing. The pace of growth will increase once Motorola flagships officially support it. It will increase far faster once lower end Motorola devices meet our requirements for updates and security features so we can expand to those too. Becoming an increasingly mainstream OS is the best way to address the narrative that using it is suspicious, but that's already nearly entirely fearmongering. On Pixels, GrapheneOS isn't the stock OS and therefore the devices show a notice each boot with the fingerprint of the non-stock verified boot key. This is a standard security feature on the hardware and something we require to be implemented. Verified boot itself is extremely useful for protecting against both physical attacks such as data extraction and also persistence for remote attacks. The verified boot notice provides a way to verify GrapheneOS is genuine without trusting the computer used to install it. The verified boot key is stored in the secure element along with the OS version for downgrade protection. It's enforced automatically so it's not as if people need to manually check the fingerprint each boot, but it does have value in protecting against tampering despite this. It's a feature we want to have on our own hardware too, although GrapheneOS can eventually be considered the stock OS without the verified boot notice. GrapheneOS is also clearly installed on the SSD. Every block of the data partition is encrypted on storage but the firmware and OS images are public knowledge and verified through verified boot rather than being encrypted. Putting another boot stage before the OS in order to encrypt the publicly available OS images wouldn't achieve anything since that would identify it as being GrapheneOS itself. The only way to hide the OS would be if the hardware itself had a firmware-based passphrase prompt and the first boot stage of the installed OS was encrypted along with the verified boot key in the secure element being wiped when unlocking. It would be possible to provide, but that would be specialized hardware and therefore it could be identified based on the hardware instead of the software. The stock Pixel OS isn't designed to be able to be installed alongside other operating systems. It assumes it's the only OS and handles updating both the firmware and itself via the A/B slots. It would be entirely possible to have a main OS in those A/B slots responsible for updating the SoC firmware and acting as a bootloader for other operating systems. That would clearly be there on the SSD if that's looked at and would show the verified boot notice every boot.
crossroadsguy 2mo ago
Now if only there will be a normal sized phone (the old "normal") from Moto with such OEM endorsed kind of support of Graphene then I might as well let go of my fruit no. 17. Yes, I will.
_ink_ 2mo ago
What security feature is the 2026 Motorola Signature missing?
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Hardware memory tagging and good enough secure element integration. Both will be there for the next generation.
jbombadil 2mo ago
This is very exciting. I have been an iPhone user for the last 8 years. I am entirely in Apple's ecosystem. I would legitimately change my phone (+watch +headphones) for a vertical foldable (like razr) phone running graphene OS. I don't think Apple is releasing a vertical foldable or even a modern smaller phone. One can only hope.
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  To get you started on switching the ecosystem, which is a pain. Here's some of what I landed on while moving from iOS to GrapheneOS. Ente Photos NotesNook Signal (I use Molly but it's only on Android) Bitwarden Proton
freedomben 2mo ago
I am beyond excited about this! Very cool. When Google acquired motorola, I was excited at the possibilities. When they sold Motorola off, I thought it a deeply unfortunate move. With this announcement though, I am now seeing it in a very positive light. Given Google's current position, if they still owned Motorola I can't see this sort of collaboration with grapheneos ever happening. Major kudos to the graphenos team! This is a huge milestone, a huge accomplishment, and a real world validation of the incredible work that you are doing. Thank you so much for everything you have done
wuuza 2mo ago
Let me know when you're trying to eliminate having a Google or Apple account to do anything instead of making it less intolerable/invasive to have one.
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  GrapheneOS works well without a Google account and has no built-in way to use one. Most apps work fine without one, but there's the standard issue of services requiring it for login. Having at least a throwaway account is also useful for the sandboxed Google Play Store but people also install those apps via Aurora Store which uses shared throwaway accounts.
cadamsdotcom 2mo ago
Stoked to soon be able to give these people money. The moment there's a device available I'll be checking closely to see if it meets my requirements. Thanks to everyone who worked so hard to get here.
tuananh 2mo ago
I would love to have more vendor supporting GrapheneOS. I doubt that it will happen though as vendors would prefer to have control over the experience.
sharts 2mo ago
I’ll be surprised if devices ship after December 26, 2027
1vuio0pswjnm7 2mo ago
Are there banking customers in Europe who do not use mobile banking apps Are there European countries that actually force, cf. coerce, banking customers to purchase mobile phones and run corporate mobile operating systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mobile_banking_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mobile_ba... https://sqmagazine.co.uk/mobile-banking-statistics/ https://sqmagazine.co.uk/mobile-banking-statistics/ One approach is to use one phone (A) for banking and other commercial transactions and use another phone (B) for everything else, e.g., personal communication with friends, family, etc. Phone A can run corporate mobile OS Phone B can run alternative OS Arguably, the data collection, surveillance and advertising exposure when using phone A is tolerable if that phone is only used for banking and commerce The problem arises when someone tries to use a single phone for every general computing purpose If that phone is running a corporate mobile OS, then that may expose the owner to an excessive amount of data collection, surveillance and, potentially, ads
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago
Did they solve widevine, hardware attestation and play integrity to deal with banks?
zombot 2mo ago
Honest question, because I'm not part of that scene (yet) at all: I seem to remember that I have read mentions of GrapheneOS for years now, but does this news mean it has been practically vaporware the whole time? Google making Android a walled garden just as bad as iOS shows how important projects like this and its siblings are. I'm impatiently waiting for more Jolla phones to become available, but something like GrapheneOS might be a viable alternative.
hn_submit 2mo ago
I wonder how Google will react if more and more mobile phones with GrapheneOS appear on the market. I suspect they will block further adoption by throwing up all kinds of hurdles. They could make more parts of Android closed source, even critical ones without which you cannot realistically build an Android phone. It could, however, trigger anti-trust lawsuits, but my guess is they're willing to risk that. I mean, worst-case they only have to rollback to what they already had and maybe pay a fine.
joemazerino 2mo ago
How will this work? Devices will come with the bootloader unlockable or have to order through Motorola directly?

651 points by exceptione 2mo ago

"The initial devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027. The initial devices will be flagships so they'll be higher end hardware than Pixels at a higher price. Lower end devices will take more time to meet our requirements since the updates and security features aren't as good. It's mostly due to how Qualcomm handles it. The latest Snapdragon flagships have the best security features. We'll also need Motorola to start paying them for longer updates below flagships."

tortasaur 2mo ago
I don't doubt they will cost more than the Pixel line, but I'm somewhat skeptical that the hardware will be higher quality. Perhaps my idea of what Motorola is capable of is outdated.
- kvuj 2mo ago
  Realistically, most smartphones are made by the same ODMs. Since they don't make their own screens, shells, CPUs or modems, the only thing being set apart is the software.
  - Aachen 2mo ago
    Except that it's all Android? I'm not selecting which phone I buy on whether the stock OS comes with lockscreen shortcuts. At best, a software requirement someone might use as a deciding factor is OS support and bootloader unlock. The real differences are in hardware: size, battery life, chipset speed, RAM or other local model enablers, picture quality (this part also depends on good software to be fair), included accessories, satellite connectivity hardware, headphone jack, gimmicks like UWB or FM radio support, whether it's a flip/fold phone, storage space / sdcard support... all hardware differences
    - bigfishrunning 2mo ago
      > Except that it's all Android? If only this were true. Samsung makes arguably the best hardware, but I refuse to buy a phone with Facebook pre-loaded and unremovable, a second (worse) app store preloaded and unremovable, and a bunch of redundant samsung-branded copies of the google apps. The best android images are as close to vanilla AOSP android as possible -- this used to mean Sony or Google branded phones, except Sony doesn't really market phones in the United States anymore and the Pixel phones are diverging from AOSP
      - drnick1 2mo ago
        The good news though is that by replacing the Pixel's stock OS by Graphene, you get something close to AOSP and arguably better. The hardware is nothing to write home about, but the phones are well priced and the bootloaders are unlockable.
      - Aachen 2mo ago
        I'm writing this from a Samsung. Their store software hasn't ever gotten in the way and I like most of the UI changes they made besides the extra apps that you can mostly hide or remove (in my case especially because root, but alas I'd not encourage anyone to buy Samsung anymore without the option to control the hardware as if you own it) Not to defend Samsung specifically, just that most phones' software is fine after a bit of setup whereas you can't download more RAM (don't believe the scams that are out there! :P). Even on Huawei I remember there were some things better than on stock but forgot what specifically (the only thing that comes to mind was a lockscreen menu that you could open with a gesture and I used all the time) Apropos Sony, that was the only brand where I kept having issues because my mom, who had the phone, constantly had questions about what to do with some notification that the OS was pushing and we couldn't get rid of. Basically product ads, iirc to try this-or-that app or function I do get what you mean about bloatware, just that it's more of a tie-breaker (saving you an hour of debloating, assuming you stay on stock) as compared to the permanent differences in hardware capabilities
- ai-astrologer 2mo ago
  Google’s Tensor chipset is weak by modern standards, and Motorola is taking the strongest off the shelf processors from the best mobile chip designer (Qualcomm).
  - scrlk 2mo ago
    Plus the Samsung Exynos modems that they were using from Pixel 6-10 (11 switched to Mediatek) had worse power efficiency and performance vs Qualcomm.
  - IAmBroom 2mo ago
    So...what's your comment? Opposing Motorola's comment, in that they already buy the best? Supporting, in that their standards haven't dropped?
    - ai-astrologer 2mo ago
      Comparing GrapheneOS on Google’s Pixel vs Motorola’s new phone. (I expect Motorola’s future offering to be more performant.)
- ernst_klim 2mo ago
  Pixel itself is very mediocre hardware, it's not hard to surpass. The battery is my main problem with it, my current pixel can't barely survive half a day of usage.

deleted 2mo ago

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LoganDark 2mo ago

If they only "should" be available in 2027, that sounds like late 2027.

Cider9986 2mo ago
Iirc they said they will be able to release Android updates like Android 17, for example, at the time it's released. This year it was a few weeks until it came to stable. This somewhat indicates to me it will be available when the Motorolas release which should be on their regular release patterns. That's been May for the 2025 and 2026 Razrs.

virajk_31 2mo ago

I bought the Moto signature a month ago , I already assumed it prolly won't support graphene, since some of the previous replies on X indicate that the graphene team requires full hardware compliance with their requirements, and the Signature apparently is not compliant yet. Anyway I ended up buying a really good smartphone.. just not a graphene supported haha :( Also this is really great collab from moto & graphene as more vendors will officially recognize Graphene as legit OS (legel/OEM is different concept). I heard month ago Volkswagen banned graphene, hopefully we we will see moving things in opposite direction...

hypfer 2mo ago
They didn't "ban" them, but they did enable some attestation feature that effectively "bans" anything that isn't Google Android. Which still makes you wonder why Volkswagen is so keen on alienating what little is left of their customer base with completely stupid security theater.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Because the EU is run by lawyers and lawsuits. They probably decided there was a risk of being sued for insufficient security if they didn't enable every security feature, and they considered it as zero impact to customers because nobody uses graphene.
  - hypfer 2mo ago
    Yes, but that is still very confusing to me, because you're not paying other people money so that they just follow incentives without thinking, vision or backbone. The whole idea of buying something is giving people money for their (assumed correct) judgement, which then leads to desired artifacts downstream.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      No, the idea of buying is that you get something in exchange for money.

unfocso 2mo ago

A year ago or so, the ThinkPhone 23 (Snapdragon 8, 2023, a weird "flagship") was available for 229€ new on various retail stores. The phone also supports Mobian/PostmarketOS and the bootloader is unlockable with no adverse effects. Out of nowhere, it received (along with other older phones) updates up to Android 16. I wouldn't be surprised if the "sudden" update was just a side effect of Motorola preparing for Graphene to be released on these older phones.

StingyJelly 2mo ago
Not sure about other phones, but ThinkPhone 23 was supposed to get Android 16 anyway https://www.androidauthority.com/lenovo-thinkphone-hands-on-3262084/ https://www.androidauthority.com/lenovo-thinkphone-hands-on-...
- kotaKat 2mo ago
  I have a 'long life' Android device (Zebra EM45) that has only recently gotten its Android 15 updates; its committed through Android 16 so I assume it's also waiting on Qualcomm to get its act together and in gear for whatever final patches are required for the QCS5430. IIRC, QCOMM is promising "10 years" on the CPU.
ledoge 2mo ago
No current Motorola phones meet their hardware requirements. 2027 flagship models will be the first to be supported. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2058730195041812839 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2058730195041812839 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2064124713501163912 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2064124713501163912
- unfocso 2mo ago
  Oh, that's unfortunate. I thought they meant support would be released in 2027, not that phones from 2027 would be supported only. :(

nunobrito 2mo ago

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m00dy 2mo ago
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- asf1279 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - officeplant 2mo ago
    >Of course they'll say they couldn't read it if they are after his contacts and network rather than after him. From what a friend working in a state police cyber crime office says, "Cellebrite can't currently, unless its a Graphene OS user that's far behind on updates" They also said iOS is equally safe unless you're an update or two behind.
    - Cider9986 2mo ago
      GrapheneOS seems to do better than anything else at preventing AFU exploitation based on the leaks. iOS will be quite good BFU but on iOS the auto reboot (brings phone to BFU after 72 hours without unlocking) is, well, 72 hours. On GrapheneOS it's 18 by default and can be as low as 10 minutes. Good luck on that, Cellebrite :)
- dwedge 2mo ago
  I ran Graphene without a Sim card for 2 months and as soon as I added a Sim card (with of course, difficult to vet networking) the phone is always hot and the battery life reduced by half. Might be a coincidence but also made me rethink how I feel about Graphene
  - zache6 2mo ago
    What Pixel do you have? Modem quality varies and signal strength could play a role. My 9a gets hot in areas with poor reception but is fine at work where I get over a gigabit down.

Retr0id 2mo ago

> the updates and security features aren't as good [on lower end Motorola devices] Having looked at some low-end Motorolas recently, this is accurate (albeit an understatement!)

tfrancisl 2mo ago

I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.

dethos 2mo ago
Yes, there's SailfishOS, there's Ubuntu Touch, and a couple more. It would be nice if one of them could gain traction so people can have a third choice.
Gigachad 2mo ago
Because you need app support. Not even Microsoft could pull that off.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Doesn't windows run android apps natively now?
  - dzikimarian 2mo ago
    It doesn't. There was a plan, but Microsoft abandoned it.
    - AstralSerenity 2mo ago
      They did end up releasing Windows Subsystem for Android via the Windows Insider Program, which was enough for the OSS community to take it over after it was abandoned. It still exists and has worked quite well for my use case: https://github.com/MustardChef/WSABuilds https://github.com/MustardChef/WSABuilds
- nextaccountic 2mo ago
  What about running the whole Android infrastructure, but on top of a non-Android Linux distro? And this, on top of a Android kernel (otherwise you won't have the drivers yo uneed) The advantage being, we can manage packages using a regular Linux distro

mrdoe 2mo ago

[flagged]

afavour 2mo ago
Tell me you're in a bubble without telling me you're in a bubble. (Mastodon is, of course, also a bubble. But largely by design. A lot of more tech-leaning folks decamped there any stayed there) EDIT: ah, OP is just a troll that only ever seems to comment when someone mentions a short form social media network that isn't Twitter.
deleted 2mo ago
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StrLght 2mo ago
Because it doesn't spam you with dickovers suggesting you log in when you open the link. But you're not really interested in this, are you?

Cider9986 2mo ago

Specific devices: >At the time of writing, within ~12 months, in 2027, the 2027 Signature, Razr fold, and Razr flip will meet the hardware security requirements and should have official GrapheneOS support. Motorola is currently porting GrapheneOS to their devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982

Arrowmaster 2mo ago
The 2026 Signature doesn't appear to be for sale in the US. Does this mean we have to wait for the lower end devices if we don't want a fold/flip?
- Noaidi 2mo ago
  Wow, I do not think any of these phones are available in the U.S.
  - milkytron 2mo ago
    The Flip and Fold are. I see them available on the Motorola US store page.
LarryDarrell 2mo ago
I knew it would be their higher end devices but I really wish they would have put it on their lower end as well. I have a Moto G running LineageOS and it's my favorite phone ever. The ability to have my 800GB of music synced to a sdcard is something I'm loath to give up.
- BoldColdHold 2mo ago
  Lower end devices simply don't have the hardware required.
  - cosmic_cheese 2mo ago
    I would bet that what Motorola can change without trouble on the lower end is more restricted, too. Generally low end models use more parts that are old, off the shelf, and/or shared with several other models to keep costs low, and so major changes can quickly balloon costs.

felooboolooomba 2mo ago

[flagged]

J-Kuhn 2mo ago
Yeah, its the "well, legally, we have to provide the source code, but we make it as painful and slow for you as we can without it becoming a blatant violation of the GPL."
- RobotToaster 2mo ago
  Not quite, they could make you request it by post and send it on a stack of floppies.
  - steve_taylor 2mo ago
    Sounds like a cheap way to get my hands on some floppies.
    - afiori 2mo ago
      you are right a stack of printed qr codes is better
      - heftig 2mo ago
        No, that's too easily machine-read. Print it in a fancy calligraphy font or one with ambiguous characters.
      - newswasboring 2mo ago
        That's too convenient, cameras can read many qr codes at a time. Encode the binary on some punch cards.
        eptcyka 2mo ago
        Pretty sure cameras can be used to read punchcards too.

rh94 2mo ago

Anyone has any idea if this changes current situation with nfc payments? Currently many banking apps do not work, and google pay is just unavailable, to my understanding it was related to secure chip on phone - as graphene wasnt "stocked" android os approved by google, i dearly hope this chnages with motorola

shaky-carrousel 2mo ago
I have a GrapheneOS phone and I pay with Curve.
- Kenji 2mo ago
  [dead]
- rh94 2mo ago
  I had plenty of troubles with curve, garmine watches is alternative, but fingers crossed that motorola phones works better
petepete 2mo ago
Me too. My two requirements for a device are: * Being able to pay for stuff * My blood glucose sensors work (Librelink) If they worked on a dumbphone, I'd have a dumbphone.
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Tap-to-pay is available on GrapheneOS in Europe. Your profile implies you're in the UK where Curve Pay is available. There are also banking apps in the EU with working tap-to-pay but we aren't sure if any of the UK banks provide it without Google Pay. 90% of banking apps do already work on GrapheneOS: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... > If they worked on a dumbphone, I'd have a dumbphone. A dumb phone won't provide any form of secure calls or texts. People should migrate away from carrier-based calls to the extent possible rather than towards it. A dumb phone is also entirely reliant on cellular instead of being able to use Wi-Fi instead.

closingreunion 2mo ago

I wonder if this could enable a samsung dex-style desktop mode

jauntywundrkind 2mo ago

Anyone want to place bets in whether this will be an unlockable bootloader, or some GrapheneOS only install path? Sure would be nice to have phones that can be rooted, or OS replaced. I've been hopeful this would perhaps enable that, but I fret my excitement may be premature.

gf000 2mo ago
If google allows that for pixels, I don't see why Motorola wouldn't. Besides, GrapheneOS would probably don't want to get into a situation where their keys are burnt into hardware non-modifiable. They had to revoke such a key once in order to protect their users (against an attempt to hijack the project).
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Providing an unlockable bootloader with all of the security features intact for alternate operating systems is part of our hardware requirements. Our main requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices which covers both updates and hardware security features.
grapheneos 2mo ago
Providing an unlockable bootloader with all of the security features intact for alternate operating systems is part of our hardware requirements. Our main requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices which covers both updates and hardware security features.

matheusmoreira 2mo ago

Looking forward to this! Google is not competent enough to sell Pixels worldwide, it's a pain in the ass to buy one!

throwfaraway135 2mo ago

I get that you don't like Twitter/Facebook/Reddit or whatever, but a clear solution to this problem is to hurt googles public image as much as you can and for that you need a platform with as large of a reach as possible. edit: they have X but didn't post it there https://x.com/GrapheneOS https://x.com/GrapheneOS

Cider9986 2mo ago
They post on Twitter more than anywhere else. This was a reply not a announcement or post. There are likely similar replies to this on their Twitter. Their communication is a goldmine for privacy and security info so even replies can be interesting enough to start discussion. They have official chatrooms on Matrix and Discord and a forum on their website. They have unofficial (but run by them) chatrooms on SimpleX and Telegram and maybe other platforms idk. They are not about avoiding big tech specifically, they make practical choices to improve privacy and security of their users. Here's a statement with some ethos. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2044440381803069778#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2044440381803069778#m
grapheneos 2mo ago
This wasn't an announcement with any new information. It was a reply to a question with existing public information. We've repeatedly posted the same information on X in response to similar questions.

therealmarv 2mo ago

I just wonder how they handle full Google's certification for hardware integrity + Google Play Store with GrapheneOS. They contradict on this part on the normal GrapheneOS mod and I don't see a way how they will not on Motorola phones. Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. But it will be interesting times once they are out!

Youden 2mo ago
> Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. You've misunderstood something here. Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". I'm running Revolut and most of my banking apps on GrapheneOS right now. In my experience, there are two major categories of incompatibility: - High levels of Google Play Integrity checks: app only works on releases of Android that have been allowlisted by Google. The only app that does this for me so far is McDonalds. - Commercial root detection APIs: some of GrapheneOS' security features like "Secure App Spawning" trip root detection heuristics. This is the kind of incompatibility I usually run into for banking apps. You can disable individual features on a per-app basis these days to get around this.
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  >Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". It's not happening for everyone but unfortunately: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2085154315799314918#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2085154315799314918#m
  - lawn 2mo ago
    That's really unfortunate. Revolut has luckily been working well for me but time will tell...

Noaidi 2mo ago

This is good news but not so much good news for us poors. I was waiting four this announcement in hopes of getting away from google totally but with the 2026 Moto Signature going for $1000 I am sure the 2027 will be more so I will probably get Pixel 10 instead. Maybe this will lighten the price on the Pixel 10's though...

catlikesshrimp 2mo ago
All other phones will have a higher price tag due to memory hogging by datacenters. How much will that google pixel 10 be when the motorolla phone arrives?
fooqux 2mo ago
If this is successful, I can see this trickling down to the lower end phones in the following years. If for no other reason than keeping their hardware as similar as possible.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49368750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49368750
grapheneos 2mo ago
Motorola's flagships are going to be their first devices providing the updates and hardware-based security features required by GrapheneOS. It will come to lower end devices but it will take longer. Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 is the first Qualcomm SoC with hardware memory tagging (MTE). MTE isn't even available on the slightly lower end Snapdragon 8 Gen 5. A lot of the SoC security features are segmented based on price and only the flagship SoC platform has everything we need. Snapdragon's upcoming next generation SoC is the first truly providing everything we need. There's still a lot of work to do since providing the features on paper is different from having those fully integrated to match what we have on Pixels.

DemiGuru 2mo ago

How does the GrapheneOS threat model account for baseband or firmware-level supply chain risks on Lenovo/Motorola hardware, given their historical consumer security incidents like Superfish? Is the open-source attestation sufficient to mitigate hardware-level tampering?

bushwart 2mo ago

High end Motorola phones :((( where is my Graphene flip phone?

fph 2mo ago
It's reportedly going to be available on the 2027 version of the Razr Flip https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-2026/pmipmjl44m7?pn=PBB70003US https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-2026/pmipm...
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  It will likely be able to support the 2027 variant of the Razr Ultra. It may be another year before we can support the devices a step down from the flagships. It mainly depends on when the lower end Qualcomm SoC adds the security features we need, if Motorola switches to Qualcomm from MediaTek for more of the non-flagship devices and when Motorola can commit to providing longer updates for those. We're likely only going to support Snapdragon Motorola devices for the time being but it could expand further in the future when another SoC platform has what we need too. https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-ultra-2026/pmipmjk44m3?pn=PBB30003US https://www.motorola.com/us/en/p/phones/razr/razr-ultra-2026... is the Razr Ultra 2026.
abrowne 2mo ago
Next gen of the Razr Ultra at least, according to another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49363702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49363702

florianherrengt 2mo ago

I'm surprised it took them that long. I always found it odd that they would support Google phones only.

grapheneos 2mo ago
Pixels are the only devices providing the updates and hardware-based security features required by GrapheneOS. Motorola and Qualcomm are improving their hardware so future devices will all of our requirements. Motorola will provide us what we need to provide proper updates and is helping us port to their devices. We'll have their support to keep it working well. GrapheneOS needs a lot of hardware related work for our security features. Our hardware requirements are listed here, but our features also need to be ported to the hardware such as getting hardware memory tagging working for the whole kernel and userspace: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

florianherrengt 2mo ago

I was hoping for Fairphone support but they said it's not happening. > Fairphones lack the updates and hardware-based security features expected by GrapheneOS. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2089937246619128257 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2089937246619128257

zuzululu 2mo ago

it'd be great if you could dual boot with grapheneos hidden right now if you have it with you graphene just needlessly raises suspicions, its unjustified but thats what it is

grapheneos 2mo ago
GrapheneOS currently has around half a million users but the userbase is rapidly growing. The pace of growth will increase once Motorola flagships officially support it. It will increase far faster once lower end Motorola devices meet our requirements for updates and security features so we can expand to those too. Becoming an increasingly mainstream OS is the best way to address the narrative that using it is suspicious, but that's already nearly entirely fearmongering. On Pixels, GrapheneOS isn't the stock OS and therefore the devices show a notice each boot with the fingerprint of the non-stock verified boot key. This is a standard security feature on the hardware and something we require to be implemented. Verified boot itself is extremely useful for protecting against both physical attacks such as data extraction and also persistence for remote attacks. The verified boot notice provides a way to verify GrapheneOS is genuine without trusting the computer used to install it. The verified boot key is stored in the secure element along with the OS version for downgrade protection. It's enforced automatically so it's not as if people need to manually check the fingerprint each boot, but it does have value in protecting against tampering despite this. It's a feature we want to have on our own hardware too, although GrapheneOS can eventually be considered the stock OS without the verified boot notice. GrapheneOS is also clearly installed on the SSD. Every block of the data partition is encrypted on storage but the firmware and OS images are public knowledge and verified through verified boot rather than being encrypted. Putting another boot stage before the OS in order to encrypt the publicly available OS images wouldn't achieve anything since that would identify it as being GrapheneOS itself. The only way to hide the OS would be if the hardware itself had a firmware-based passphrase prompt and the first boot stage of the installed OS was encrypted along with the verified boot key in the secure element being wiped when unlocking. It would be possible to provide, but that would be specialized hardware and therefore it could be identified based on the hardware instead of the software. The stock Pixel OS isn't designed to be able to be installed alongside other operating systems. It assumes it's the only OS and handles updating both the firmware and itself via the A/B slots. It would be entirely possible to have a main OS in those A/B slots responsible for updating the SoC firmware and acting as a bootloader for other operating systems. That would clearly be there on the SSD if that's looked at and would show the verified boot notice every boot.

crossroadsguy 2mo ago

Now if only there will be a normal sized phone (the old "normal") from Moto with such OEM endorsed kind of support of Graphene then I might as well let go of my fruit no. 17. Yes, I will.

_ink_ 2mo ago

What security feature is the 2026 Motorola Signature missing?

grapheneos 2mo ago
Hardware memory tagging and good enough secure element integration. Both will be there for the next generation.

jbombadil 2mo ago

This is very exciting. I have been an iPhone user for the last 8 years. I am entirely in Apple's ecosystem. I would legitimately change my phone (+watch +headphones) for a vertical foldable (like razr) phone running graphene OS. I don't think Apple is releasing a vertical foldable or even a modern smaller phone. One can only hope.

Cider9986 2mo ago
To get you started on switching the ecosystem, which is a pain. Here's some of what I landed on while moving from iOS to GrapheneOS. Ente Photos NotesNook Signal (I use Molly but it's only on Android) Bitwarden Proton

freedomben 2mo ago

I am beyond excited about this! Very cool. When Google acquired motorola, I was excited at the possibilities. When they sold Motorola off, I thought it a deeply unfortunate move. With this announcement though, I am now seeing it in a very positive light. Given Google's current position, if they still owned Motorola I can't see this sort of collaboration with grapheneos ever happening. Major kudos to the graphenos team! This is a huge milestone, a huge accomplishment, and a real world validation of the incredible work that you are doing. Thank you so much for everything you have done

wuuza 2mo ago

Let me know when you're trying to eliminate having a Google or Apple account to do anything instead of making it less intolerable/invasive to have one.

grapheneos 2mo ago
GrapheneOS works well without a Google account and has no built-in way to use one. Most apps work fine without one, but there's the standard issue of services requiring it for login. Having at least a throwaway account is also useful for the sandboxed Google Play Store but people also install those apps via Aurora Store which uses shared throwaway accounts.

cadamsdotcom 2mo ago

Stoked to soon be able to give these people money. The moment there's a device available I'll be checking closely to see if it meets my requirements. Thanks to everyone who worked so hard to get here.

tuananh 2mo ago

I would love to have more vendor supporting GrapheneOS. I doubt that it will happen though as vendors would prefer to have control over the experience.

sharts 2mo ago

I’ll be surprised if devices ship after December 26, 2027

1vuio0pswjnm7 2mo ago

Are there banking customers in Europe who do not use mobile banking apps Are there European countries that actually force, cf. coerce, banking customers to purchase mobile phones and run corporate mobile operating systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mobile_banking_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mobile_ba... https://sqmagazine.co.uk/mobile-banking-statistics/ https://sqmagazine.co.uk/mobile-banking-statistics/ One approach is to use one phone (A) for banking and other commercial transactions and use another phone (B) for everything else, e.g., personal communication with friends, family, etc. Phone A can run corporate mobile OS Phone B can run alternative OS Arguably, the data collection, surveillance and advertising exposure when using phone A is tolerable if that phone is only used for banking and commerce The problem arises when someone tries to use a single phone for every general computing purpose If that phone is running a corporate mobile OS, then that may expose the owner to an excessive amount of data collection, surveillance and, potentially, ads

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago

Did they solve widevine, hardware attestation and play integrity to deal with banks?

zombot 2mo ago

Honest question, because I'm not part of that scene (yet) at all: I seem to remember that I have read mentions of GrapheneOS for years now, but does this news mean it has been practically vaporware the whole time? Google making Android a walled garden just as bad as iOS shows how important projects like this and its siblings are. I'm impatiently waiting for more Jolla phones to become available, but something like GrapheneOS might be a viable alternative.

hn_submit 2mo ago

I wonder how Google will react if more and more mobile phones with GrapheneOS appear on the market. I suspect they will block further adoption by throwing up all kinds of hurdles. They could make more parts of Android closed source, even critical ones without which you cannot realistically build an Android phone. It could, however, trigger anti-trust lawsuits, but my guess is they're willing to risk that. I mean, worst-case they only have to rollback to what they already had and maybe pay a fine.

joemazerino 2mo ago

How will this work? Devices will come with the bootloader unlockable or have to order through Motorola directly?