6 ms·

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? Non

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone?

nubinetwork 3mo ago
The iPod was a product in an interesting time... if you ignore the screen, a modern mp3 player could be made as small as a SD card... as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen. Nobody wants to put the effort into something that's going to be as basic as a mp3 player.
- fortyseven 3mo ago
  I find this seriously underestimates what jackets 6 will undertake for fun, even unpaid.
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  It barely needs a screen. I adored my minidisc players and they were all basically calculator displays
  - ezst 3mo ago
    Would you still adore it as much today, though? I know I don't adore my iPod classic as much now as I did in 2006, and that's inclusive of the nostalgia kick. It's just not very practical and usable in today's world.
    - SpecialistK 3mo ago
      I don't use it daily, but I enjoyed rediscovering and using my MiniDisc stuff that I was inspired to build a pretty popular website around it :)
      - ezst 3mo ago
        I would really love to try MD: besides the "tactileness" of it, the storage limits imposes to actively curate playlists and make compromises on how much/what music you can carry with you given the circumstances. An iPod classic already has so much storage available that this thought is secondary and you don't have to engage with your music to the same extent.
        SpecialistK 3mo ago
        Absolutely, and that's something I've tried to highlight in the FAQs on the site - limitation breeds creativity. It makes you appreciate the media just a little bit more. One of the best places to have MD is in a car. You can quickly identify (by unique color or label) each disc, which is either a full album presented as the artist intended or a playlist you curated. There's no "shuffle all 5000 songs" or "here's a playlist Spotify calls 80s kitchen songs but is half 90s pop you've heard before"
        steveBK123 3mo ago
        The other place I've thought I'd like to go back to MD is just sitting in bed and listening to some music. I don't want to fiddle with my phone and get blasted by light from the screen. I don't want to swipe through an infinite list of all music known to man. I don't want to wait for an app to update, page to load, song to buffer or pop-up upselling me to need to be dismissed. I want to listen to music I own, on a device I own, which instantly responds when I press play. That's it.
        SpecialistK 3mo ago
        All 100% true. Just watch out for dead batteries (especially rechargables, because there are no Low Self Discharge Ni-MH gumsticks)
  - youngtaff 3mo ago
    I adored my MiniDisc too but the limited storage of a single disk makes it easy to find the music you want Given how much we can store in solid state not sure I’d want to navigate my library without a screen
- Rohansi 3mo ago
  > as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen More software? Sure. An operating system? No. There were (are?) plenty of cheap MP3 players that had screens but just drive it with some budget microcontroller.
  - nubinetwork 3mo ago
    And they're all e-waste nuggets sitting in dankpods' storage closet... :)
- Cthulhu_ 3mo ago
  So like the original iPod Shuffle? Just buttons, a clip and a headphone jack, no screen. (I do think they need a minimum size to be usable but companies can be creative with the form factor)
SpecialistK 3mo ago
There's an irony here, because Sony do make MP3 Walkmans based on Android: https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorders https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorde...
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  That would be "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much" The entry level Walkman is $400 and only has 32gb internal storage. It's all about flac and hires audio but you're paying through the nose for the brand
  - SpecialistK 3mo ago
    They had models like the A55L (https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-nw-a55l https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-nw-a55l) which were more affordable, but the venn diagram of "cheap" and "niche audiophile gear" is two separate circles. Those who want nostalgia get iPods and mod them with SD cards and new batteries. Those who want Android and a headphone jack have older used phones or new budget ones (Moto g Power 2024 is US$129) and the market for cheap "nuggets" is not wide enough nor would there be enough margin to justify continued production. That product category simply isn't worthwhile for big brands anymore.
  - phire 3mo ago
    I guess there just is no room in the current market for a mid-ranged product. The segment is being squeezed on at least five sides (probably more): - Cheap low-end no-name players; - Audiophile products like the Sony walkman stuff; - People who are happy using their phones; - (for the exercise "phone too heavy" use case) A smart watch, paired to bluetooth headphones; - Second hand iPods from the 2000s, often refurbished and/or modded; Maybe one of the low-end no-name players meets your needs... But how could you find it wading through the crap?
    - tgv 3mo ago
      I had an ipod, but the battery is dead, and it still had a rotating hd, so I thought: I liked Sony Discman, back in the day, this new player must be good. I was wrong. It sucks in many different ways. I've described some of the problems before and copied them here: My iPod Classic was in a terminal phase, and since I like to carry my music around instead of streaming arbitrary stuff, I bought a Sony Walkman mp3 (+ other formats) player. It's bad. It takes a long time to boot, the battery life is mediocre, the UI is mainly lists of things, searching always misses tracks or albums, the volume defaults to a pretty low level, and when you increase it, it interrupts you asking if you're sure. And when I started copying my itunes collection to the "walkman" (it is branded Walkman, but not worthy of the name), it would constantly stop copying. The included software was useless, and wouldn't copy a single track, giving up after 5 to 10 minutes of scanning. I had to write a Python script to overcome problems with long directory and file names and copy them to the proper directory. Worst of all: there's a very loud click when you stop a track (using wired headphones). It's as if they never even used it.
deleted 3mo ago
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jerlam 3mo ago
MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions. And "MP3 player" is a feature of other devices, not its own device. Both my Apple Watch and Garmin watch can store and play MP3s without a phone; both also support music subscriptions. The only market is in the "enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much", just like it is currently for vinyls and DVD players.
- TacticalCoder 3mo ago
  > MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions I both have music subscriptions (Spotify for the wife, Qobuz for me: Qobuz streams lossless but sucks for music discovery) and good old files (mostly FLAC files indeed except some very old, impossible-to-find, live recordings I only have in mp3). One does not prevent the other. Also some people self-host or partially self-host things: you stream from a server you own: be it family pictures (I'm Mich / immich), movies and/or music (Plex or Jellyfin). And, well, the stream doesn't spring out of thin air: there are good old files on the server. Lastly: some music streaming services allows you to buy albums and/or individual songs, DRM-free.
  - jerlam 3mo ago
    I'm not saying that MP3 and CDs and cassette tapes and vinyl don't work. But they are on the decline and no company would be wise to make a mass-market device specifically for them, when the mass market has moved on.
  - trq01758 3mo ago
    These days Spotify can stream FLACs as well, it's a setting.
- stevekemp 3mo ago
  I buy films from local charity shops for €1/film, but it seems the local electronics stores are not selling many DVD players any more. It seems like streaming "won", which is disappointing.
ramgine 3mo ago
Have you looked at fiio? They’ve been doing it a while and aren’t crazy expensive https://www.fiio.com/player https://www.fiio.com/player https://a.co/d/055SGJE1 https://a.co/d/055SGJE1
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  These actually look decent, thanks for the link. I wonder why I could never find them in my endless googling
  - Melatonic 3mo ago
    There's other competitors as well. Just search for "DAP" (digital audio player) Or buy any old but decent condition LG V series phone (like a V20, v50 etc etc)
- Foobar8568 3mo ago
  Fiio, Hiby, basically any chifi music player is a soc+android.
stefantalpalaru 3mo ago
[dead]
TacticalCoder 3mo ago
> ... why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? I know the late 90s called and want their MP3 straight out of Napster and their 10 GB HDD back but you can safely up the ante to lossless FLAC files. MP3 is, literally, 30+ years old and I traded my 10 GB HDD for a 1 TB NVMe SSD that could read an uncompressed dump of my entire 10 GB HDD in about two seconds. FLAC files are only about 2x the size of 320 kbps mp3. Really, it's 2026. We can do it (I do it).
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  Hey I'm happy if it plays flac, but all I want is decent storage and it to not cost a fortune
turtlebits 3mo ago
Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Because you can do that with any phone and just not use the phone part?
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  Because I want something half the size of a phone. I don't need a giant screen, I just want a player that can do music or audiobooks and be light enough to run with. I find myself researching, trying to find the smallest lightest old phone that either has decent internal memory or a micro SD slot, but it's not easy. Most phones are massive compared to an iPod shuffle
  - molybd3num 3mo ago
    the unihertz jelly is pretty small and not very expensive
  - jayGlow 3mo ago
    you could use a smart watch, not nearly as much storage but for playing music while running it can work well enough.
    - arthurfm 3mo ago
      There's a case [1] for the Apple Watch that turns it into an 'iPod'. It's also quite similar to the Pod Case concept [2]. [1] https://thetinypod.com https://thetinypod.com [2] https://www.behance.net/gallery/72386255/Pod-Case-for-Apple-Watch-Series-4 https://www.behance.net/gallery/72386255/Pod-Case-for-Apple-...
      - timc3 3mo ago
        Oh that is kinda cool. Now I really want one
  - wmf 3mo ago
    There are a ton of these and they're all behind your "company I've never heard of" blind spot.
izacus 3mo ago
I don't understand the question, Sony still sells a product line of both premium and cheaper mp3 player devices? Although FiiO is probably the company to look at for these kind of products.
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  Show me the cheaper one please. The lowest price Walkman I can see is 400 bucks for 32gb
  - izacus 3mo ago
    That is the decent player you're looking for. (It has an SD card slot.) iPods weren't cheap either.
    - dijit 3mo ago
      Fourth gen ipod was $399 new. (the one with the touch wheel and colour display, usually what people think of when they think “classic ipod”.) It released in 2005, so adjusted for inflation thats $668.91 Yowza!
  - steve1977 3mo ago
    That is the cheaper one.
  - Melatonic 3mo ago
    Fiio has been making these for many years at every price point and size. Quality seems very high They're very well known and have several competitors
Jiro 3mo ago
My "MP3 player" is a phone with Musicolet. If you really distrust phones, you can buy a cheap phone and use it only for that and nothing else. There are probably other offline MP3 players but this one seems pretty good. (It is hard to find a phone with an SD card slot and a headphone jack but that's a separate issue.)
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  The problem with cheap phones is how big they all are
sharts 3mo ago
The demand isn’t that high for so much effort?
nl 3mo ago
> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. Is this surprising? They are a commodity (you can literally build a fairly decent for less than $10 in parts) so therefore are low profit. Brands you have heard of generally don't want to play in commodity markets. The alternative is to move upmarket where prestige or specific features are important: > some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. There you go. > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? They can and do. Look on Amazon. They call into the two buckets you outline above. Just buy one of the $50 ones from the companies you haven't heard of.
- Dylan16807 3mo ago
  [dead]
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  I've bought several of these and they don't last. You're right that they are commodity items. The components and quality are shit, there's no support, and six months later the company has vanished. I guess I just want somewhere between $30 and $500, somewhere between absolutely piece of shit and extreme prestige. But I'm dreaming if I think anyone is going to serve that market
  - eichin 3mo ago
    it's a little weird but most of the sub $50 ESP-32 boards on waveshare include an MP3 player as one of many demo bits of code (primarily because it shows off code for "read from microSD card" and "drive the DAC".) It's not quite what you're asking for, just a benchmark that it's kind of "too easy to build" which might get in the way of actual products.
  - Melatonic 3mo ago
    Doesn't Fiio and the like make a bunch of fairly affordable stuff ? Definitely well under 500$
zoeysmithe 3mo ago
These companies did everything they could to get people off the "I own files I paid once" model and onto the perpetual "I pay for streaming" model. Of course they dont want to go back to that. It goes against the profit incentive which dictates all business decisions. That's how capitalism works on its most fundamental level.
gyulai 3mo ago
> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. I recently got the Shanling M0s. It runs its own OS and seems to me completely at parity with what MP3 players used to be back in the day; in fact I think it's the best one I've ever had, and I've been buying those devices since the Diamond Rio. If more people just got one, Shanling would no longer be a company nobody's ever heard of, and the economics would change to further bring down the price too (although I think it's not all that bad right now).
- mananaysiempre 3mo ago
  The battery life’s reportedly kind of garbage, though, isn’t it? As it seems to be on all these devices. I understand this is partly due to overpowered output amplifiers (to support obscure headphones) and software decoding (to support obscure formats), but still, <15hr of playback is pitiful.
- carlosjobim 3mo ago
  Mine was great for a year until it stopped working out of nowhere, not turning on. The company told me they wouldn't help me in any way. And there seems to be no good alternatives.
bandrami 3mo ago
IDK I've got some rando Chinese product that looks pretty much exactly like a late-2000s iPod "classic" and has some fairly generic Android interface including a decent music player. I think it cost like $40.
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  I've bought a few for the kids but they generally have weird issues like sorting music in bizarre unpredictable ways (can't seem to get it to play an audiobook in order). There's no customer support, and they also break fairly easily
  - bandrami 3mo ago
    Yeah, it's definitely more of a consumable item than an asset, as the logistics guys would say.
jnaina 3mo ago
they do. tons of them. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mp3-player.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mp3-player.html
- trencedamp 3mo ago
  I've bought too many of these. They never look like the picture, the screens are awful, they all use the same shit soc, they don't last and they have issues with tags and sorting. I just want a company I've heard of to make something that doesn't absolutely suck but also doesn't cost more than a phone
  - numpad0 3mo ago
    You get what you pay for. Ultimately what you are wondering is why electronics companies aren't relentlessly updating and optimizing products like they did during 1980s-2010s at every price point between $4.99 to $499.99M, that just wasn't normal, and that wasn't sustainable after all. I think there's a chance that the world would go through these discussions again for software, and we realize why only US could produce great software, but we'll see...
bamboozled 3mo ago
I think you’ll find that is what modern Walkmans are…
rtpg 3mo ago
My understanding is there are decent MP3 players by places like Fiio at this point? Haven't used any of em in anger though Though I have a walkman (that kinda sucks cuz it's android.... it's (USB-C AND annoying Android OS) XOR (Proprietary charging cable) from Sony nowadays > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Sony Walkmans are this, along with a bunch of the random mp3 players you would find on amazon. I don't know why some other people replying to you are acting like this doesn't exist.
- nl 3mo ago
  > Sony Walkmans are this The cheapest one I'm seeing is the Sony NW-A306. That's around $600 - I think it fits into the OP's category of "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much"
  - rtpg 3mo ago
    dunno where you're looking, they're 400 USD But also just type "android mp3 player" into Amazon dot com. You'll find plenty of stuff under $100[0] [0] https://www.amazon.com/4-02-Player-Bluetooth-WiFi-Speakers/dp/B0G7SF1F1B https://www.amazon.com/4-02-Player-Bluetooth-WiFi-Speakers/d...
parl_match 3mo ago
> which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players the burning answer is really, by the time you've chosen a modern merchant soc, and put a screen on it, you're really more or less at the same BOM cost as a very low end android device (and frankly, the soc bsp you chose is likely to be android/aosp to begin with) so you're basically competing head to head with every shitphone maker out there, and they have economies of scale. you do not. > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and so... now you're competing with simple smartphones. you're going to charge more for a fancy case for something that requires to be carried separate from your phone and offers zero additional advantage? there's a huge market for external mobile DSPs for this reason. this is an example of an entry level one https://www.microcenter.com/product/705193/moondrop-freedsp-mini-portable-hifi-usb-c-miniature-dac-and-amplifier https://www.microcenter.com/product/705193/moondrop-freedsp-... btw, im sure someone like shanling is making exactly what you're thinking of, but they often have limited production runs and still cost within the same range as a basic android phone (usually a bit more)
- klausa 3mo ago
  >the burning answer is really, by the time you've chosen a modern merchant soc, and put a screen on it, you're really more or less at the same BOM cost as a very low end android device (and frankly, the soc bsp you chose is likely to be android/aosp to begin with) This is, incidentally, also almost universally an answer to "why doesn't nobody make a dumb TV anymore?!" The off-the-shelf SoC that handle the TV decoding/HDMI bits already has a bunch of general purpose ARM cores; might as well put Android on it instead of writing your own firmware.
  - parl_match 3mo ago
    the race for margins has gotten so intense that actually, actively not scraping viewer data and using it for ad marketing means that even a non-spying smart tv is less economically feasible
pelgueta 3mo ago
Did you even read the article? They mention Sony sells a new Walkman just like what you mention https://www.sony.co.uk/walkman https://www.sony.co.uk/walkman
- ssl-3 3mo ago
  Maybe it's just me (am I holding it wrong?), but the link you provided lands at only two products: DMP-Z1 Digital Music Player Signature Series (price unavailable) WM1ZM2 Walkman® Signature Series (£3,299.00, financing available)
  - prmoustache 3mo ago
    there is also what looks like a headset integrated player in the sports section but it is true that it seems they have totally abandonned their regular non luxury walkman line that was still available a couple of years ago.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
snapetom 3mo ago
Apple got it right with the original iPod, and your ask, and others, is just to extend it to modern times. A lot of these comments simply aren't helpful, and people chiming in know it. For me, I was looking for 1) Music player that holds a ton of songs. 2) Lossless. 3) No touch screen control. 4) Battery that is long lasting and semi-replaceable. 5) Smaller than modern phones. 6) Great software experience, which for me meant Apple Music compatible. 7) Wired. Not Bluetooth. A $400 Sony Android-based player doesn't meet 3, 4, nor 5. Most importantly, $400 for a product that doesn't meet some pretty important criteria is ridiculous. A shitty tiny Chinese player isn't going to meet 3, 4, 6 and it'll die on you in a couple of years and you'll be back at square one. My solution was to buy a 5.5 Gen iPod off eBay ($100), a microSD card carrier (iFlash.xyz - $40), and four microSD cards (Back in my day, $50 each for 256gb). Yes, I had to open the iPod, but yes, it checks all my boxes. And it came in less than the Sony player.
- jjav 3mo ago
  > For me, I was looking for To add: - A physical switch to turn off all inputs. The older ipods had a slider switch that disables all buttons and screen inputs, which was awesome. Mostly I use an mp3 player when working on things (yard, cars, house, etc) and need something very small and very light, so not a phone. My older ipod with the switch broke down so I'm stuck with a newer ipod which lacks that switch and I hate it. Every few minutes it activates some button press from being in my pocket and ruins the listening.
  - snapetom 3mo ago
    I swear, this site jumps on the tactile control bandwagon when it comes to something like cars, but for this thread, it's all "meh, everything's touchscreen these days. Get used to it."
- timonoko 3mo ago
  MP3-module from Aliexpress and some ESP-board with tiny display and micropython. Ten Euro. You can make random search N in the MP3-module, because OFF/ON restarts and then you short NEXT-button wires N times.
smolder 3mo ago
You want an mp3 player with no DRM lockin and proprietary store and so on? Sorry, that's not competitive anymore. That will not happen for the same reason people don't make affordable dumb TVs anymore. The manufacturer needs a way to spy on you or get recurring revenue some other way.
- rustcleaner 3mo ago
  Maybe a nice 50%-200% tax on recurrent revenue streams could force things back to sell-once + no spying...
roskoe 3mo ago
The basic Sony Walkman is 74.99 $ https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/walkman-mp3-players/p/nwe394-b https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders...
- ndiddy 3mo ago
  It looks like they recently discontinued that model, I don't see it new anywhere.
- arkensaw 3mo ago
  the only thing they sell for anything close to that price is a pair of earphones for $99. https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/c/walkman-mp3-players https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders... The cheapest walkman model is $399.99
ssl-3 3mo ago
> Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Why can't people simply take inexpensive smartphone hardware, install modern media player software on it, and then just use it to listen to music? Is it fundamentally impossible to properly enjoy music while ignoring the extra parts that sit disused inside? I mean: At least here in the States, a person can walk into a Walmart or Best Buy with a fifty dollar bill, and walk out with a brand new Motorola MP3-playing device with wifi, an IPS screen, a headphone jack, and an SD card slot -- and they can then simply use it.
yokoprime 3mo ago
Sony and Fiio both make high end "mp3 players" aka Digital Audio Player. These are expensive devices and have more in common with mobile phones, but you can buy them
fragmede 3mo ago
Now we're just haggling over price. Make more money and be less cheap. I'd like a Ferrari for $20,000 but we both know that's not gonna happen. These days, you can just buy a name, but it's expensive. Factory A is going to make a device for $50, sell 1,000 for them for $150 and make $100,000 ($150*1000-$50*1000). Factory B can make the same device for $50, buy a name that you've heard of for $100,000, buy some reviews in magazines you're heard of for another $100,000, and sell 1,000 of them for $350 a piece and then they'll make $100,000. ($350*1000-$200,000-$50*1000)
jollyllama 3mo ago
I think everybody talking about how you can get an android device that does this missing the point. Android is not very good. These devices are just repurposed cell phone components, basically. The original iPod was an offline device with high quality interfaces and it "just worked." The fact that such a thing can't be found for music - let alone video - speaks volumes.
- SpecialistK 3mo ago
  I think you're asserting away a lot of the meat of your argument. "Android is not very good" is completely subjective. It does provide access to streaming services and lots of media player options. The iPod was definitely known for a high quality DAC+amp, but do we know what's inside each older or budget Android device? A lot of components have improved over 20 years, and others haven't. I would also disagree that it "just worked." The cable was proprietary (after Gen 2), iTunes was often buggy and locked down, it didn't support standard FLAC files, you couldn't extract audio officially. And considering that there are numerous audiophile-focused MP3 players on the market from Sony and FiiO, plus cheap nuggets from no name brands which likely play music just fine... what's being spoken volumes?
andai 3mo ago
You mean why doesn't Apple sell music devices that can't run an App store? I think they make a lot of money from the app store, so they'd probably lose a lot of money by doing that. (I don't know about Apple's current iPod lineup but I'm assuming they all have the app store on them. I do miss my old iPod classic though.)
- ZekeSulastin 3mo ago
  They stopped making iPods in 2022 :( the last one they did make was the iPod Touch (7th gen), which was basically an iPhone in a slightly different shell without a cellular radio.
runamuck 3mo ago
I have an Astel & Kern SE-100. Amazing build and sound.
- kjs3 3mo ago
  The GP specifically said they weren't looking for some overpriced 'enthusiast' nonsense. Did you really spent $1700 for that thing? Did you get the gold plated, oxygen free cables and noise canceling dot stickers at the same time or did you save up for them.

nubinetwork 3mo ago

The iPod was a product in an interesting time... if you ignore the screen, a modern mp3 player could be made as small as a SD card... as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen. Nobody wants to put the effort into something that's going to be as basic as a mp3 player.

fortyseven 3mo ago
I find this seriously underestimates what jackets 6 will undertake for fun, even unpaid.
trencedamp 3mo ago
It barely needs a screen. I adored my minidisc players and they were all basically calculator displays
- ezst 3mo ago
  Would you still adore it as much today, though? I know I don't adore my iPod classic as much now as I did in 2006, and that's inclusive of the nostalgia kick. It's just not very practical and usable in today's world.
  - SpecialistK 3mo ago
    I don't use it daily, but I enjoyed rediscovering and using my MiniDisc stuff that I was inspired to build a pretty popular website around it :)
    - ezst 3mo ago
      I would really love to try MD: besides the "tactileness" of it, the storage limits imposes to actively curate playlists and make compromises on how much/what music you can carry with you given the circumstances. An iPod classic already has so much storage available that this thought is secondary and you don't have to engage with your music to the same extent.
      - SpecialistK 3mo ago
        Absolutely, and that's something I've tried to highlight in the FAQs on the site - limitation breeds creativity. It makes you appreciate the media just a little bit more. One of the best places to have MD is in a car. You can quickly identify (by unique color or label) each disc, which is either a full album presented as the artist intended or a playlist you curated. There's no "shuffle all 5000 songs" or "here's a playlist Spotify calls 80s kitchen songs but is half 90s pop you've heard before"
        steveBK123 3mo ago
        The other place I've thought I'd like to go back to MD is just sitting in bed and listening to some music. I don't want to fiddle with my phone and get blasted by light from the screen. I don't want to swipe through an infinite list of all music known to man. I don't want to wait for an app to update, page to load, song to buffer or pop-up upselling me to need to be dismissed. I want to listen to music I own, on a device I own, which instantly responds when I press play. That's it.
        SpecialistK 3mo ago
        All 100% true. Just watch out for dead batteries (especially rechargables, because there are no Low Self Discharge Ni-MH gumsticks)
- youngtaff 3mo ago
  I adored my MiniDisc too but the limited storage of a single disk makes it easy to find the music you want Given how much we can store in solid state not sure I’d want to navigate my library without a screen
Rohansi 3mo ago
> as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen More software? Sure. An operating system? No. There were (are?) plenty of cheap MP3 players that had screens but just drive it with some budget microcontroller.
- nubinetwork 3mo ago
  And they're all e-waste nuggets sitting in dankpods' storage closet... :)
Cthulhu_ 3mo ago
So like the original iPod Shuffle? Just buttons, a clip and a headphone jack, no screen. (I do think they need a minimum size to be usable but companies can be creative with the form factor)

SpecialistK 3mo ago

There's an irony here, because Sony do make MP3 Walkmans based on Android: https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorders https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorde...

trencedamp 3mo ago
That would be "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much" The entry level Walkman is $400 and only has 32gb internal storage. It's all about flac and hires audio but you're paying through the nose for the brand
- SpecialistK 3mo ago
  They had models like the A55L (https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-nw-a55l https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-nw-a55l) which were more affordable, but the venn diagram of "cheap" and "niche audiophile gear" is two separate circles. Those who want nostalgia get iPods and mod them with SD cards and new batteries. Those who want Android and a headphone jack have older used phones or new budget ones (Moto g Power 2024 is US$129) and the market for cheap "nuggets" is not wide enough nor would there be enough margin to justify continued production. That product category simply isn't worthwhile for big brands anymore.
- phire 3mo ago
  I guess there just is no room in the current market for a mid-ranged product. The segment is being squeezed on at least five sides (probably more): - Cheap low-end no-name players; - Audiophile products like the Sony walkman stuff; - People who are happy using their phones; - (for the exercise "phone too heavy" use case) A smart watch, paired to bluetooth headphones; - Second hand iPods from the 2000s, often refurbished and/or modded; Maybe one of the low-end no-name players meets your needs... But how could you find it wading through the crap?
  - tgv 3mo ago
    I had an ipod, but the battery is dead, and it still had a rotating hd, so I thought: I liked Sony Discman, back in the day, this new player must be good. I was wrong. It sucks in many different ways. I've described some of the problems before and copied them here: My iPod Classic was in a terminal phase, and since I like to carry my music around instead of streaming arbitrary stuff, I bought a Sony Walkman mp3 (+ other formats) player. It's bad. It takes a long time to boot, the battery life is mediocre, the UI is mainly lists of things, searching always misses tracks or albums, the volume defaults to a pretty low level, and when you increase it, it interrupts you asking if you're sure. And when I started copying my itunes collection to the "walkman" (it is branded Walkman, but not worthy of the name), it would constantly stop copying. The included software was useless, and wouldn't copy a single track, giving up after 5 to 10 minutes of scanning. I had to write a Python script to overcome problems with long directory and file names and copy them to the proper directory. Worst of all: there's a very loud click when you stop a track (using wired headphones). It's as if they never even used it.

deleted 3mo ago

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jerlam 3mo ago

MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions. And "MP3 player" is a feature of other devices, not its own device. Both my Apple Watch and Garmin watch can store and play MP3s without a phone; both also support music subscriptions. The only market is in the "enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much", just like it is currently for vinyls and DVD players.

TacticalCoder 3mo ago
> MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions I both have music subscriptions (Spotify for the wife, Qobuz for me: Qobuz streams lossless but sucks for music discovery) and good old files (mostly FLAC files indeed except some very old, impossible-to-find, live recordings I only have in mp3). One does not prevent the other. Also some people self-host or partially self-host things: you stream from a server you own: be it family pictures (I'm Mich / immich), movies and/or music (Plex or Jellyfin). And, well, the stream doesn't spring out of thin air: there are good old files on the server. Lastly: some music streaming services allows you to buy albums and/or individual songs, DRM-free.
- jerlam 3mo ago
  I'm not saying that MP3 and CDs and cassette tapes and vinyl don't work. But they are on the decline and no company would be wise to make a mass-market device specifically for them, when the mass market has moved on.
- trq01758 3mo ago
  These days Spotify can stream FLACs as well, it's a setting.
stevekemp 3mo ago
I buy films from local charity shops for €1/film, but it seems the local electronics stores are not selling many DVD players any more. It seems like streaming "won", which is disappointing.

ramgine 3mo ago

Have you looked at fiio? They’ve been doing it a while and aren’t crazy expensive https://www.fiio.com/player https://www.fiio.com/player https://a.co/d/055SGJE1 https://a.co/d/055SGJE1

trencedamp 3mo ago
These actually look decent, thanks for the link. I wonder why I could never find them in my endless googling
- Melatonic 3mo ago
  There's other competitors as well. Just search for "DAP" (digital audio player) Or buy any old but decent condition LG V series phone (like a V20, v50 etc etc)
Foobar8568 3mo ago
Fiio, Hiby, basically any chifi music player is a soc+android.

stefantalpalaru 3mo ago

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TacticalCoder 3mo ago

> ... why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? I know the late 90s called and want their MP3 straight out of Napster and their 10 GB HDD back but you can safely up the ante to lossless FLAC files. MP3 is, literally, 30+ years old and I traded my 10 GB HDD for a 1 TB NVMe SSD that could read an uncompressed dump of my entire 10 GB HDD in about two seconds. FLAC files are only about 2x the size of 320 kbps mp3. Really, it's 2026. We can do it (I do it).

trencedamp 3mo ago
Hey I'm happy if it plays flac, but all I want is decent storage and it to not cost a fortune

turtlebits 3mo ago

Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Because you can do that with any phone and just not use the phone part?

trencedamp 3mo ago
Because I want something half the size of a phone. I don't need a giant screen, I just want a player that can do music or audiobooks and be light enough to run with. I find myself researching, trying to find the smallest lightest old phone that either has decent internal memory or a micro SD slot, but it's not easy. Most phones are massive compared to an iPod shuffle
- molybd3num 3mo ago
  the unihertz jelly is pretty small and not very expensive
- jayGlow 3mo ago
  you could use a smart watch, not nearly as much storage but for playing music while running it can work well enough.
  - arthurfm 3mo ago
    There's a case [1] for the Apple Watch that turns it into an 'iPod'. It's also quite similar to the Pod Case concept [2]. [1] https://thetinypod.com https://thetinypod.com [2] https://www.behance.net/gallery/72386255/Pod-Case-for-Apple-Watch-Series-4 https://www.behance.net/gallery/72386255/Pod-Case-for-Apple-...
    - timc3 3mo ago
      Oh that is kinda cool. Now I really want one
- wmf 3mo ago
  There are a ton of these and they're all behind your "company I've never heard of" blind spot.

izacus 3mo ago

I don't understand the question, Sony still sells a product line of both premium and cheaper mp3 player devices? Although FiiO is probably the company to look at for these kind of products.

trencedamp 3mo ago
Show me the cheaper one please. The lowest price Walkman I can see is 400 bucks for 32gb
- izacus 3mo ago
  That is the decent player you're looking for. (It has an SD card slot.) iPods weren't cheap either.
  - dijit 3mo ago
    Fourth gen ipod was $399 new. (the one with the touch wheel and colour display, usually what people think of when they think “classic ipod”.) It released in 2005, so adjusted for inflation thats $668.91 Yowza!
- steve1977 3mo ago
  That is the cheaper one.
- Melatonic 3mo ago
  Fiio has been making these for many years at every price point and size. Quality seems very high They're very well known and have several competitors

Jiro 3mo ago

My "MP3 player" is a phone with Musicolet. If you really distrust phones, you can buy a cheap phone and use it only for that and nothing else. There are probably other offline MP3 players but this one seems pretty good. (It is hard to find a phone with an SD card slot and a headphone jack but that's a separate issue.)

trencedamp 3mo ago
The problem with cheap phones is how big they all are

sharts 3mo ago

The demand isn’t that high for so much effort?

nl 3mo ago

> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. Is this surprising? They are a commodity (you can literally build a fairly decent for less than $10 in parts) so therefore are low profit. Brands you have heard of generally don't want to play in commodity markets. The alternative is to move upmarket where prestige or specific features are important: > some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. There you go. > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? They can and do. Look on Amazon. They call into the two buckets you outline above. Just buy one of the $50 ones from the companies you haven't heard of.

Dylan16807 3mo ago
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trencedamp 3mo ago
I've bought several of these and they don't last. You're right that they are commodity items. The components and quality are shit, there's no support, and six months later the company has vanished. I guess I just want somewhere between $30 and $500, somewhere between absolutely piece of shit and extreme prestige. But I'm dreaming if I think anyone is going to serve that market
- eichin 3mo ago
  it's a little weird but most of the sub $50 ESP-32 boards on waveshare include an MP3 player as one of many demo bits of code (primarily because it shows off code for "read from microSD card" and "drive the DAC".) It's not quite what you're asking for, just a benchmark that it's kind of "too easy to build" which might get in the way of actual products.
- Melatonic 3mo ago
  Doesn't Fiio and the like make a bunch of fairly affordable stuff ? Definitely well under 500$

zoeysmithe 3mo ago

These companies did everything they could to get people off the "I own files I paid once" model and onto the perpetual "I pay for streaming" model. Of course they dont want to go back to that. It goes against the profit incentive which dictates all business decisions. That's how capitalism works on its most fundamental level.

gyulai 3mo ago

> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. I recently got the Shanling M0s. It runs its own OS and seems to me completely at parity with what MP3 players used to be back in the day; in fact I think it's the best one I've ever had, and I've been buying those devices since the Diamond Rio. If more people just got one, Shanling would no longer be a company nobody's ever heard of, and the economics would change to further bring down the price too (although I think it's not all that bad right now).

mananaysiempre 3mo ago
The battery life’s reportedly kind of garbage, though, isn’t it? As it seems to be on all these devices. I understand this is partly due to overpowered output amplifiers (to support obscure headphones) and software decoding (to support obscure formats), but still, <15hr of playback is pitiful.
carlosjobim 3mo ago
Mine was great for a year until it stopped working out of nowhere, not turning on. The company told me they wouldn't help me in any way. And there seems to be no good alternatives.

bandrami 3mo ago

IDK I've got some rando Chinese product that looks pretty much exactly like a late-2000s iPod "classic" and has some fairly generic Android interface including a decent music player. I think it cost like $40.

trencedamp 3mo ago
I've bought a few for the kids but they generally have weird issues like sorting music in bizarre unpredictable ways (can't seem to get it to play an audiobook in order). There's no customer support, and they also break fairly easily
- bandrami 3mo ago
  Yeah, it's definitely more of a consumable item than an asset, as the logistics guys would say.

jnaina 3mo ago

they do. tons of them. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mp3-player.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mp3-player.html

trencedamp 3mo ago
I've bought too many of these. They never look like the picture, the screens are awful, they all use the same shit soc, they don't last and they have issues with tags and sorting. I just want a company I've heard of to make something that doesn't absolutely suck but also doesn't cost more than a phone
- numpad0 3mo ago
  You get what you pay for. Ultimately what you are wondering is why electronics companies aren't relentlessly updating and optimizing products like they did during 1980s-2010s at every price point between $4.99 to $499.99M, that just wasn't normal, and that wasn't sustainable after all. I think there's a chance that the world would go through these discussions again for software, and we realize why only US could produce great software, but we'll see...

bamboozled 3mo ago

I think you’ll find that is what modern Walkmans are…

rtpg 3mo ago

My understanding is there are decent MP3 players by places like Fiio at this point? Haven't used any of em in anger though Though I have a walkman (that kinda sucks cuz it's android.... it's (USB-C AND annoying Android OS) XOR (Proprietary charging cable) from Sony nowadays > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Sony Walkmans are this, along with a bunch of the random mp3 players you would find on amazon. I don't know why some other people replying to you are acting like this doesn't exist.

nl 3mo ago
> Sony Walkmans are this The cheapest one I'm seeing is the Sony NW-A306. That's around $600 - I think it fits into the OP's category of "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much"
- rtpg 3mo ago
  dunno where you're looking, they're 400 USD But also just type "android mp3 player" into Amazon dot com. You'll find plenty of stuff under $100[0] [0] https://www.amazon.com/4-02-Player-Bluetooth-WiFi-Speakers/dp/B0G7SF1F1B https://www.amazon.com/4-02-Player-Bluetooth-WiFi-Speakers/d...

parl_match 3mo ago

> which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players the burning answer is really, by the time you've chosen a modern merchant soc, and put a screen on it, you're really more or less at the same BOM cost as a very low end android device (and frankly, the soc bsp you chose is likely to be android/aosp to begin with) so you're basically competing head to head with every shitphone maker out there, and they have economies of scale. you do not. > Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and so... now you're competing with simple smartphones. you're going to charge more for a fancy case for something that requires to be carried separate from your phone and offers zero additional advantage? there's a huge market for external mobile DSPs for this reason. this is an example of an entry level one https://www.microcenter.com/product/705193/moondrop-freedsp-mini-portable-hifi-usb-c-miniature-dac-and-amplifier https://www.microcenter.com/product/705193/moondrop-freedsp-... btw, im sure someone like shanling is making exactly what you're thinking of, but they often have limited production runs and still cost within the same range as a basic android phone (usually a bit more)

klausa 3mo ago
>the burning answer is really, by the time you've chosen a modern merchant soc, and put a screen on it, you're really more or less at the same BOM cost as a very low end android device (and frankly, the soc bsp you chose is likely to be android/aosp to begin with) This is, incidentally, also almost universally an answer to "why doesn't nobody make a dumb TV anymore?!" The off-the-shelf SoC that handle the TV decoding/HDMI bits already has a bunch of general purpose ARM cores; might as well put Android on it instead of writing your own firmware.
- parl_match 3mo ago
  the race for margins has gotten so intense that actually, actively not scraping viewer data and using it for ad marketing means that even a non-spying smart tv is less economically feasible

pelgueta 3mo ago

Did you even read the article? They mention Sony sells a new Walkman just like what you mention https://www.sony.co.uk/walkman https://www.sony.co.uk/walkman

ssl-3 3mo ago
Maybe it's just me (am I holding it wrong?), but the link you provided lands at only two products: DMP-Z1 Digital Music Player Signature Series (price unavailable) WM1ZM2 Walkman® Signature Series (£3,299.00, financing available)
- prmoustache 3mo ago
  there is also what looks like a headset integrated player in the sports section but it is true that it seems they have totally abandonned their regular non luxury walkman line that was still available a couple of years ago.

deleted 3mo ago

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snapetom 3mo ago

Apple got it right with the original iPod, and your ask, and others, is just to extend it to modern times. A lot of these comments simply aren't helpful, and people chiming in know it. For me, I was looking for 1) Music player that holds a ton of songs. 2) Lossless. 3) No touch screen control. 4) Battery that is long lasting and semi-replaceable. 5) Smaller than modern phones. 6) Great software experience, which for me meant Apple Music compatible. 7) Wired. Not Bluetooth. A $400 Sony Android-based player doesn't meet 3, 4, nor 5. Most importantly, $400 for a product that doesn't meet some pretty important criteria is ridiculous. A shitty tiny Chinese player isn't going to meet 3, 4, 6 and it'll die on you in a couple of years and you'll be back at square one. My solution was to buy a 5.5 Gen iPod off eBay ($100), a microSD card carrier (iFlash.xyz - $40), and four microSD cards (Back in my day, $50 each for 256gb). Yes, I had to open the iPod, but yes, it checks all my boxes. And it came in less than the Sony player.

jjav 3mo ago
> For me, I was looking for To add: - A physical switch to turn off all inputs. The older ipods had a slider switch that disables all buttons and screen inputs, which was awesome. Mostly I use an mp3 player when working on things (yard, cars, house, etc) and need something very small and very light, so not a phone. My older ipod with the switch broke down so I'm stuck with a newer ipod which lacks that switch and I hate it. Every few minutes it activates some button press from being in my pocket and ruins the listening.
- snapetom 3mo ago
  I swear, this site jumps on the tactile control bandwagon when it comes to something like cars, but for this thread, it's all "meh, everything's touchscreen these days. Get used to it."
timonoko 3mo ago
MP3-module from Aliexpress and some ESP-board with tiny display and micropython. Ten Euro. You can make random search N in the MP3-module, because OFF/ON restarts and then you short NEXT-button wires N times.

smolder 3mo ago

You want an mp3 player with no DRM lockin and proprietary store and so on? Sorry, that's not competitive anymore. That will not happen for the same reason people don't make affordable dumb TVs anymore. The manufacturer needs a way to spy on you or get recurring revenue some other way.

rustcleaner 3mo ago
Maybe a nice 50%-200% tax on recurrent revenue streams could force things back to sell-once + no spying...

roskoe 3mo ago

The basic Sony Walkman is 74.99 $ https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/walkman-mp3-players/p/nwe394-b https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders...

ndiddy 3mo ago
It looks like they recently discontinued that model, I don't see it new anywhere.
arkensaw 3mo ago
the only thing they sell for anything close to that price is a pair of earphones for $99. https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/c/walkman-mp3-players https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders... The cheapest walkman model is $399.99

ssl-3 3mo ago

> Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Why can't people simply take inexpensive smartphone hardware, install modern media player software on it, and then just use it to listen to music? Is it fundamentally impossible to properly enjoy music while ignoring the extra parts that sit disused inside? I mean: At least here in the States, a person can walk into a Walmart or Best Buy with a fifty dollar bill, and walk out with a brand new Motorola MP3-playing device with wifi, an IPS screen, a headphone jack, and an SD card slot -- and they can then simply use it.

yokoprime 3mo ago

Sony and Fiio both make high end "mp3 players" aka Digital Audio Player. These are expensive devices and have more in common with mobile phones, but you can buy them

fragmede 3mo ago

Now we're just haggling over price. Make more money and be less cheap. I'd like a Ferrari for $20,000 but we both know that's not gonna happen. These days, you can just buy a name, but it's expensive. Factory A is going to make a device for $50, sell 1,000 for them for $150 and make $100,000 ($150*1000-$50*1000). Factory B can make the same device for $50, buy a name that you've heard of for $100,000, buy some reviews in magazines you're heard of for another $100,000, and sell 1,000 of them for $350 a piece and then they'll make $100,000. ($350*1000-$200,000-$50*1000)

jollyllama 3mo ago

I think everybody talking about how you can get an android device that does this missing the point. Android is not very good. These devices are just repurposed cell phone components, basically. The original iPod was an offline device with high quality interfaces and it "just worked." The fact that such a thing can't be found for music - let alone video - speaks volumes.

SpecialistK 3mo ago
I think you're asserting away a lot of the meat of your argument. "Android is not very good" is completely subjective. It does provide access to streaming services and lots of media player options. The iPod was definitely known for a high quality DAC+amp, but do we know what's inside each older or budget Android device? A lot of components have improved over 20 years, and others haven't. I would also disagree that it "just worked." The cable was proprietary (after Gen 2), iTunes was often buggy and locked down, it didn't support standard FLAC files, you couldn't extract audio officially. And considering that there are numerous audiophile-focused MP3 players on the market from Sony and FiiO, plus cheap nuggets from no name brands which likely play music just fine... what's being spoken volumes?

andai 3mo ago

You mean why doesn't Apple sell music devices that can't run an App store? I think they make a lot of money from the app store, so they'd probably lose a lot of money by doing that. (I don't know about Apple's current iPod lineup but I'm assuming they all have the app store on them. I do miss my old iPod classic though.)

ZekeSulastin 3mo ago
They stopped making iPods in 2022 :( the last one they did make was the iPod Touch (7th gen), which was basically an iPhone in a slightly different shell without a cellular radio.

runamuck 3mo ago

I have an Astel & Kern SE-100. Amazing build and sound.

kjs3 3mo ago
The GP specifically said they weren't looking for some overpriced 'enthusiast' nonsense. Did you really spent $1700 for that thing? Did you get the gold plated, oxygen free cables and noise canceling dot stickers at the same time or did you save up for them.