13 ms·

European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

roundabout-host 3mo ago
Regardless of whether you personally use Android or iOS, I think that we can all agree that it is not right to be forced to use a specific platform in order to access almost any Internet services.
- Aaargh20318 3mo ago
  This is only an issue if it's the only way of verifying your age. If it's still accessible to everyone and this makes it significantly easier for 99.9999999% of people then why not?
  - choo-t 3mo ago
    Easier than… not using age verification ? It's not like it's a feature for you the end user, it doesn't solve any of your problems, on the contrary, it creates new ones.
    - Aaargh20318 3mo ago
      So we should just let children order alcohol and cigarettes online then?
      - choo-t 3mo ago
        With whom credit card, to whom mailbox, on whom device ? Does Roblox sell them ? If no it's a non sequitur. How much of a problem is the online availability of alcohol or cigarettes in the health of children ?
      - pluralmonad 3mo ago
        "We" should not be involved in the raising of strangers children. This perspective is one of the oddest to creep out of modernity.
  - roundabout-host 3mo ago
    Well, the plan is for it to be the only one. And even if it isn't, what's the alternative? Persona again? No thanks. They could have helped and made an alternative version of this system which used the ID chip plugged into a desktop PC, but they intentionally won't do so.
- perching_aix 3mo ago
  A certified Real Opinion (tm). The only thing missing is the checkmark.
Beijinger 3mo ago
I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc. Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?
- troupo 3mo ago
  > Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? I remember a gov.uk team presentation. They had a usecase of someone using a PS Vita to access a government assistance program because that was the only device they had access to. Among 450 million people in the EU there are definitely more OSes than just latest versions of iOS and Android.
- uniq7 3mo ago
  > Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors Yes, there are many more: GNU/Linux, Windows, macOS, *BSD, etc. This will prevent people who only own a computer and not a modern iOS/Android smartphone from accessing services and platforms. This also sets a very strong anti-competition pressure. Which company will try now to invest on developing a new OS for smartphones if we already know users will not be able to access the most popular services & platforms with it?
  - anthk 3mo ago
    Well, that would boost up torrent and sites and places like Usenet and IRC with no age verification at all. English speakers can just use overseas servers (or non-UE services such as the ones in Switzerland). And maybe Usenet servers outside the US too. Spanish speakers in Spain will just register services in Latinamerica sites with a VPN. Despite the dialect differences, non-jargon Spanish it's understood everywhere and once they got their user registered they can switch the country anytime. Distros like Trisquel will just set their sites and mirrors outside the EU. And, well, if they provide a portable torrent client for Windows among the torrent the law would be utterly broken.
    - 3mo ago
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
iLoveOncall 3mo ago
I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?
- hahahaa 3mo ago
  Run linux?
  - roundabout-host 3mo ago
    I don't understand. Even if you run GNU/Linux, when you access a restricted website on it, you will have to scan a QR code with the Android or iOS app. <https://cinema.ageverification.dev https://cinema.ageverification.dev> is a demo which shows that.
    - iLoveOncall 3mo ago
      > https://cinema.ageverification.dev https://cinema.ageverification.dev is a demo which shows that. Unrelated to the substance of the comment but this is a depressing example. Imagine having to verify your age and your identity to buy a movie ticket. This is pure insanity. Dark times are ahead. Anyone that doesn't see we'll all be living in dictatorships within the next 10 years is putting their head in the sand.
- _factor 3mo ago
  This will ensure there never is.
- sebtron 3mo ago
  Why does it have to be a phone? Some people still use tablets, laptops and, believe it or not, desktop PCs.
  - xienze 3mo ago
    Smartphones are much more ubiquitous than any of those devices. Across all demographics.
amelius 3mo ago
Isn't there a niche platform that can sue the hell out of the EU here?
- fsflover 3mo ago
  Perhaps https://fsfe.org https://fsfe.org or https://edri.org https://edri.org can do that.
sschueller 3mo ago
Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise. What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.
- Scaled 3mo ago
  Another juicy threat vector is forcing the app stores to stealthily ship a modified version of the app that sends copies of the IDs and/or tracking data to US intelligence services. (Reminder: we know Persona's verification software already shares verification data with the federal government. It's a leap to modifying other apps, but within the realm of possibility of US government power. There is absolutely desire from them to gather blackmail material on politically important people, and age verification systems connected to adult sites/apps are a great way to do it)
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  This is a problem, but not the only one. The biggest one is that the phones in question are locked and deny user freedom. I would not be content with an European "alternative", but which is as locked as iOS.
gobip 3mo ago
Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.
- ilumanty 3mo ago
  Yes, I said it before and I will say it again: We should invest our energy in the discussion whether to implement it and not already wonder how to implement it. Shifting this question benefits only those who want to force this upon us.
  - tikkabhuna 3mo ago
    Doesn't the "how to implement" determine whether to implement it? A poor implementation shouldn't be done, but a good implementation could make it simpler for companies to verify the ages of users, limit information passed to companies, offer a quality of life improvement for users.
    - lstodd 3mo ago
      The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.
      - snottynose 3mo ago
        It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.
        toasty228 3mo ago
        > as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.
spaqin 3mo ago
Funny how the worry of "digital exclusion" of the elders who would never be able to use a smartphone has been thrown out of the window in recent years.
- shevy-java 3mo ago
  That's because they are lying to the people here. Just look at the "we must protect the children" lobbyists. It has never been about the children in the first place, that is just the convenient lie to force an authoritarian system in place.
- trashb 3mo ago
  Don't worry the focus is on the youth with this legislation. I have the suspicion it's about indoctrination of surveillance as normal. Additionally the amount of elderly that don't have or can't use a phone or don't have anyone that can help them with it will decrease rapidly anyway. In my experience it's mostly the same generation as the people that remember WWII.
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  They probably think that they do not use "social media" either, so it does not affect them. But elders are not the only category. In any case, it is fundamentally wrong to be forced to use a specific platform, American or European, mobile or desktop, for Internet service access.
- perching_aix 3mo ago
  I don't think this is relevant for them by definition, so that's an odd point to raise. It's hard to be encumbered by having to manage a digital identity, when you don't do anything digitally in the first place.
- mghackerlady 3mo ago
  And the youths who just... don't like smartphones. We exist
  - wobfan 3mo ago
g-b-r 3mo ago
It should be stressed that Play Integrity also requires having a Google account and logging in to it on the phone.
perching_aix 3mo ago
I guess it's that time of the week again. Do we have a sockpuppet account to welcome in you by any chance? The (actual) complaint of the thread appears to be resolved already (which would make sense given this is old news): > In the README, the following is listed: >> App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation The README.md does not appear to feature such a section (nor any of the other files for that matter). Separately, the title is editorializing, and falsely suggests there's some big bad EU app, even though the app that does exist is merely a reference implementation, not for end user usage. There's a reason the repository you're linking a discussion thread from only holds specs. Edit: > the specification does not prohibit it My account has been rate-limited, so I'm not able to reply directly. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can appreciate that your title is still quite the lie then. "Not prohibiting it" is very different from "forcing", after all.
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  In the thread you will find many examples of national implementations which do require attestation. It was removed from the README as a PR measure, but in practice the specification does not prohibit it, so national implementations will still use it.
kubo6472 3mo ago
Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.
- shevy-java 3mo ago
  Well, they could change the laws to force people into slavery here, e. g. by forcing them to use US corporations ("if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"). In that case they see age sniffing as ultimate tool of spying on everyone, so this is probably the real goal. What we all can see is that this has never been about children - they are just abused as the red hering here.
  - trashb 3mo ago
    > "if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society" It would be a difficult choice but would it really be so bad to be excluded from such a society? Don't a lot of people from silicon valley dream to be farmers in the wildlands?
    - Anoian 3mo ago
      This highly depends on your world view. If you don't care about people or society, then yes you can be right. I, for one, want to be part of society.
    - snottynose 3mo ago
      I mean, if the government would not demolish your house the second they found out about it...
- dheera 3mo ago
  You won't be able to see a doctor when you're sick. You won't be able to open a bank account to receive your salary. You won't be able to buy train or plane tickets. My point is I am most worried that these kind of "digital verification" type things most impact actual necessities. The social media I couldn't care less about. "I just won't use it" isn't really a solution.
shevy-java 3mo ago
What baffles me the most is how the EU commission constantly works in favour of US corporations in the long run. This is really strange. Something does not work in the explanations given by the EU commission. To me it looks like US lobbyists run the EU here.
- xienze 3mo ago
  Well, they really, really, really want the end game of tying (real) identity to digital identity. And they want it now, not 10+ years in the future when _theoretically_ there _might_ be some EU-friendly mobile operating system that everyone uses. Right now, Google and Apple are basically the entire smartphone market, so they gotta work with what they've got if they want these plans to come to fruition.
- villish 3mo ago
  The EU gets billions of dollars from fining US companies. That money is used to pay for a lot of programs and the bean counters don't wan't that source of funding to dry up.
blop 3mo ago
This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the strategic value of moving out. However there is ZERO talk about mobile platforms... No alternative solution like linux for the desktop, no money or care given to the few alternative that tentatively exist, and zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU. So whilst the backend guys more or less got the memo about sovereignty, I think there is still a lot of educational work to do regarding end user devices and what kind of digital slavery hole we're digging ourselves in...
- cbg0 3mo ago
  Isn't AOSP a thing?
  - spwa4 3mo ago
    You mean giving China control over it? (because you still need the hardware made, and it's not like the EU commission is even prepared to fix BSPs for that hardware) The EU has endlessly sold critical infrastructure to US, India and China while actively sabotaging efforts to rebuild it and now want it back - for free. This is criticized as having a low chance of success, as well as being a pretty unreasonable demand.
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      TIL Google is China
      - spwa4 3mo ago
        You misunderstand, my point is that Non-Google Android is Chinese. Which it obviously is.
skrebbel 3mo ago
I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in some misguided bid to beat the pedos. In Roblox’ case, this means sharing your 3D likeness with some sketchy American business who pinky promises to delete said data after. I don’t want random American tech companies to have my kids’ biometric info like that, able to sell it to whoever asks. Nor my passport or anything like that. I’d much prefer a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy, and has no business incentive to sell my data, where I can see what data about me (or my son) is shared with Roblox or whichever sleazy business wants it. Obviously this only makes sense if the government is less sleazy than the average American tech business, but for all its faults, I think that currently holds for the EU (and most of its member countries). There’s plenty precedent of EU governments doing privacy-conscious apps right (the Dutch covid tracking app comes to mind). I hope they see reason and fix this here issue.
- knorker 3mo ago
  Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. I don't think it's Godwin's Law when you are so spot on, exactly describing the worst case.
  - tikkabhuna 3mo ago
    Why would an age verification app need to know your ethnicity/religion? Governments likely already know your name, age, place of birth, so having an app with a standard API for verifying users isn't giving the government additional data.
    - snottynose 3mo ago
      It is one extra attack vector. There is a data leak reported every week, and it is now apparent we cannot trust any organization to handle any datum securely, at all. It has gotten to the point where I now consider every piece of information compromised and sold on the dark web as soon as I am forced to transfer it to a third party. Because those are the odds.
Erikun 3mo ago
Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?
- perching_aix 3mo ago
  > Am I missing something? Yes, that this post is propaganda.
- trashb 3mo ago
  From what I can gather from the linked discussion it was started as a pull request or a issue and was transferred to a discussion later. Perhaps some data was lost there? If you expand the comments fully there is also mention of a nuked merge request, I assume it was related to this text. Edit it was not visible from the discussion link but it is visible from the issue link below. Also it seems to be transferred over from a totally different repo? https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  It used to say that, it was removed as a PR measure, while in practice the national implementations (as you do not use this app, but a national one) require it, because the specification only mandates Android/iOS versions to be provided (it allows others, but no government will do so), and it does not mandate them not to have "attestation".
- Deukhoofd 3mo ago
  This entire issue is a disaster of a Github issue. It looks like its on the entirely wrong repository. I did eventually find the text in another repository; the one for the Android reference implementation: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui/commit/6b126d98606ed42d1fc845ece8f8a768cc50de6e https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android... It was removed from there to clarify the entire "Hey, this application is not done yet" It being in the reference implementation instead of the spec is a massive difference. One means that it's just there to show an example, and we should push national governments to do it better in their implementations, while the other would mean that it'd be a requirement for all implementations, which it doesn't appear to be. It also looks like the reference implementation removed that functionality entirely several months ago: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui/commit/20c8be04bfccf231bf93f600d1e9172fc03d3f4e https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...
cynicalsecurity 3mo ago
Why the hell EU even needs an age verification app? Who's genius idea is this and what for?
- christkv 3mo ago
  Step one in the "EU Firewall" and future credit system. Step out of line and get debanked or other things they will come up with to keep you inline.
  - grg0 3mo ago
    Age verification is being pushed by US tech companies.
    - christkv 3mo ago
      And we are lapping it up
HelloUsername 3mo ago
Related: "EU age verification app to ban any Android system not licensed by Google" 27-jul-2025 https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1mah79o/eu_age_verification_app_to_ban_any_android_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1mah79o/eu_age_v... and "EU age verification app not planning desktop support" 24-sep-2025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45359074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45359074
g-b-r 3mo ago
What would this be applied to? Let's check the freshly printed report by the "Special Panel on child safety online and potential age restrictions for social media" (https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/d833504d-5ec3-4fac-945f-38e7d0bd5326_en https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/d833504d-5ec3...). We have a definition at the beginning, for "Social media and other digital services (in short, social media+)": “Within the scope of this report, the terms ‘social media+’ and ‘social media and other digital services’, are used to broadly define services that may be available to minors and contain age-inappropriate and/or risky features (for example, addictive and harmful features, among which infinite scroll, autoplay, recommendation algorithms and persistent notifications) and/or content. Social media and other digital services providers include online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties, such as social media, as well as app stores. AI systems posing risks to minors’ safety and development, including AI companions, video games exposing children to harmful commercial practices or dangerous contacts, and video-sharing platforms enabling age-inappropriate access to minors are also included.” So, let's see, services that may contain age-inappropriate and/or risky content, "online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties". How quickly can you come up with something that wouldn't fall in that definition? It seems that anything that allows user-contributed content (such as plain old forums) or communication among users would be comprised in it. And, yes, to be sure we explicitly include app stores (I guess including e.g. F-Droid, and what about software repositories?) and video games with intercommunication features. What is this definition used for? Recommendation 1 of chapter 3: “A harmonised EU-wide access restriction to *social media and other digital services*, including AI companions, for children under 13 is necessary.” This is a report, not law, but it was commissioned by Ursula von der Leyen and “The report is intended to inform future actions to be proposed by the European Commission and EU Member States to reinforce child safety online.”
gentlerain 3mo ago
[dead]
sebastianconcpt 3mo ago
The issue is not the issue, the issue is what their "solution" enables for expanding the surface that governments have for controlling details of how you live your life in the future once accepted.
ozlikethewizard 3mo ago
This is even more than just android, I'm sure there are plenty of us using AOSP forks that do not have google services installed. I think the EU will overturn this with enough noise though. Hopefully the UK doesn't do the same, I've avoided having to root my phone so far and would like to keep it that way if possible.
zombot 3mo ago
Doesn't that mean that Apple and Google are getting all that data about every single affected user?
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  They are.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
christkv 3mo ago
Tells us the us is some sort of failed democracy then implements China like access control for the population because they want to ensure they can prosecute you for wrong think in the future. Yeah Im loving this "liberal order" that looks more like good old facism dressed up to look "nice". Even how the passing of chat control was done has ensured I´m voting for any party that will dismantle the EU. EU Parliament is not a democratic of representative institution. Its about as legitimate and democratic as the Duma in Russia.
trallnag 3mo ago
The EU skipped "having kids" and jumped directly to "protecting kids"
- Cider9986 3mo ago
  Excellent point.
- account42 3mo ago
  [flagged]
butz 3mo ago
Your app should've been a website.
nullbio 3mo ago
Fuck the globalists.
singingtoday 3mo ago
I would never do this verification with my real face, and neither should anybody else. Kids get around this using video game character creators. You can too. As a netizen it's your duty to avoid, oppose, and circumvent anything that forces you to use your real identity.
jasonvorhe 3mo ago
Don't use it. Don't even consider it. Do whatever it takes to let everyone know you're not gonna use this and tell your friends the same. These corrupt bafoons talk of sovereignty and then they pull stunts like this. Even if you're totally pro EU, vote with your actions if you can't outvote the Commission.
- fancyfredbot 3mo ago
  Buffoon (not bafoon).
  - jasonvorhe 3mo ago
    Thanks, I really had no idea!
- wobfan 3mo ago
  I will try my best, but at some point I feel this won't help. 98% of people have no problem with this. In fact they probably even see this as a positive, finally they don't have to identify via these shitty video services from various call centers anymore, and even the children are perfectly safe now. I am quite pessimistic. They couldn't care less about some 2% of people who just stop using their services.
  - roundabout-host 3mo ago
    You are wrong. Maybe 2% aren't OK with it, but 98% of the 2% will still give in to avoid losing their "normality".
TacticalCoder 3mo ago
> European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS As a european if I wanted to see the glass half-full I'd say: at least the good news is that from that headline we can name a gigantic loser... Microsoft.
duxup 3mo ago
The unintended consequence of poorly thought out regulations (good or bad) can be wild. I’m still having to deal with making some sort of legal agreement with EVERY website I visit over cookies constantly… I just don’t care anymore / click whatever.
- Nicholas_C 3mo ago
  I'm confused on why browsers can't automatically handle the cookies pop ups. It's beyond annoying and something that should just be automated since my preferences don't change.
  - duxup 3mo ago
    It should be very easy. But for whatever reasons they chose to make this the people’s problem… constantly. Same goes for age ID things too.
  - watwut 3mo ago
    The companies strongly opposed such thing in browsers. That is why.
  - roundabout-host 3mo ago
    Google started to lobby by using a dramatisation: "if it is easy to reject advertising cookies, the whole Web advertising industry will go extinct!"
- lionkor 3mo ago
  Consentomatic does most common cookie dialogs, according to your settings. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/consent-o-matic/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/consent-o-mat... It also exists for other browsers. I am not affiliated,but I have it on my devices and even on my phone, it's quite good and I very rarely get cookie popups now.
  - kobalsky 3mo ago
    then you have an extension with full access to everything. unless it's one of the big guys, devs either sell the extensions or get hacked, it has happened multiple times.
eur0pa 3mo ago
Not gonna use it, and if forced I’ll just retire from the internet. I’ve been around since 1996, it’s high time anyways.
consp 3mo ago
I'm still wondering how this is compatible with laws concerning disabilities, the elderly and those with certain religious believes. They already keep everything governmental related multi modal (you must be able to do it some other way, and almost always this include by proxy and on paper). This is some Draconian way of doing it.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
0xbadcafebee 3mo ago
Guys, you don't understand, their hands are tied! They need to make the children safe from seeing boobies by forcing mass surveillance on everyone (despite the fact that children can trivially get around it)... and to force mass surveillance on everyone, they need to capitulate to American tech companies. It's unfortunate, but you'll just have to give up your privacy.
sunaookami 3mo ago
Fuck everyone supporting this surveillance "app", everyone helping implementing this should be ashamed. Thanks for turning the EU into a dictatorship.
CircuitSeuss 3mo ago
What if… we all just agree age verification is bad for everyone and move on?
fredwilson930 3mo ago
[dead]
greatgib 3mo ago
We should remember the name of the rats that are working on this thing to ensure to never hire them or block them from everything we can for being the proud killer of our freedom in Europe...

Regardless of whether you personally use Android or iOS, I think that we can all agree that it is not right to be forced to use a specific platform in order to access almost any Internet services.

Aaargh20318 3mo ago
This is only an issue if it's the only way of verifying your age. If it's still accessible to everyone and this makes it significantly easier for 99.9999999% of people then why not?
- choo-t 3mo ago
  Easier than… not using age verification ? It's not like it's a feature for you the end user, it doesn't solve any of your problems, on the contrary, it creates new ones.
  - Aaargh20318 3mo ago
    So we should just let children order alcohol and cigarettes online then?
    - choo-t 3mo ago
      With whom credit card, to whom mailbox, on whom device ? Does Roblox sell them ? If no it's a non sequitur. How much of a problem is the online availability of alcohol or cigarettes in the health of children ?
    - pluralmonad 3mo ago
      "We" should not be involved in the raising of strangers children. This perspective is one of the oddest to creep out of modernity.
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  Well, the plan is for it to be the only one. And even if it isn't, what's the alternative? Persona again? No thanks. They could have helped and made an alternative version of this system which used the ID chip plugged into a desktop PC, but they intentionally won't do so.
perching_aix 3mo ago
A certified Real Opinion (tm). The only thing missing is the checkmark.

Beijinger 3mo ago

I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc. Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?

troupo 3mo ago
> Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? I remember a gov.uk team presentation. They had a usecase of someone using a PS Vita to access a government assistance program because that was the only device they had access to. Among 450 million people in the EU there are definitely more OSes than just latest versions of iOS and Android.
uniq7 3mo ago
> Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors Yes, there are many more: GNU/Linux, Windows, macOS, *BSD, etc. This will prevent people who only own a computer and not a modern iOS/Android smartphone from accessing services and platforms. This also sets a very strong anti-competition pressure. Which company will try now to invest on developing a new OS for smartphones if we already know users will not be able to access the most popular services & platforms with it?
- anthk 3mo ago
  Well, that would boost up torrent and sites and places like Usenet and IRC with no age verification at all. English speakers can just use overseas servers (or non-UE services such as the ones in Switzerland). And maybe Usenet servers outside the US too. Spanish speakers in Spain will just register services in Latinamerica sites with a VPN. Despite the dialect differences, non-jargon Spanish it's understood everywhere and once they got their user registered they can switch the country anytime. Distros like Trisquel will just set their sites and mirrors outside the EU. And, well, if they provide a portable torrent client for Windows among the torrent the law would be utterly broken.
  - 3mo ago

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

iLoveOncall 3mo ago

I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?

hahahaa 3mo ago
Run linux?
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  I don't understand. Even if you run GNU/Linux, when you access a restricted website on it, you will have to scan a QR code with the Android or iOS app. <https://cinema.ageverification.dev https://cinema.ageverification.dev> is a demo which shows that.
  - iLoveOncall 3mo ago
    > https://cinema.ageverification.dev https://cinema.ageverification.dev is a demo which shows that. Unrelated to the substance of the comment but this is a depressing example. Imagine having to verify your age and your identity to buy a movie ticket. This is pure insanity. Dark times are ahead. Anyone that doesn't see we'll all be living in dictatorships within the next 10 years is putting their head in the sand.
_factor 3mo ago
This will ensure there never is.
sebtron 3mo ago
Why does it have to be a phone? Some people still use tablets, laptops and, believe it or not, desktop PCs.
- xienze 3mo ago
  Smartphones are much more ubiquitous than any of those devices. Across all demographics.

amelius 3mo ago

Isn't there a niche platform that can sue the hell out of the EU here?

fsflover 3mo ago
Perhaps https://fsfe.org https://fsfe.org or https://edri.org https://edri.org can do that.

sschueller 3mo ago

Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise. What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.

Scaled 3mo ago
Another juicy threat vector is forcing the app stores to stealthily ship a modified version of the app that sends copies of the IDs and/or tracking data to US intelligence services. (Reminder: we know Persona's verification software already shares verification data with the federal government. It's a leap to modifying other apps, but within the realm of possibility of US government power. There is absolutely desire from them to gather blackmail material on politically important people, and age verification systems connected to adult sites/apps are a great way to do it)
roundabout-host 3mo ago
This is a problem, but not the only one. The biggest one is that the phones in question are locked and deny user freedom. I would not be content with an European "alternative", but which is as locked as iOS.

gobip 3mo ago

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.

ilumanty 3mo ago
Yes, I said it before and I will say it again: We should invest our energy in the discussion whether to implement it and not already wonder how to implement it. Shifting this question benefits only those who want to force this upon us.
- tikkabhuna 3mo ago
  Doesn't the "how to implement" determine whether to implement it? A poor implementation shouldn't be done, but a good implementation could make it simpler for companies to verify the ages of users, limit information passed to companies, offer a quality of life improvement for users.
  - lstodd 3mo ago
    The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.
    - snottynose 3mo ago
      It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.
      - toasty228 3mo ago
        > as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.

spaqin 3mo ago

Funny how the worry of "digital exclusion" of the elders who would never be able to use a smartphone has been thrown out of the window in recent years.

shevy-java 3mo ago
That's because they are lying to the people here. Just look at the "we must protect the children" lobbyists. It has never been about the children in the first place, that is just the convenient lie to force an authoritarian system in place.
trashb 3mo ago
Don't worry the focus is on the youth with this legislation. I have the suspicion it's about indoctrination of surveillance as normal. Additionally the amount of elderly that don't have or can't use a phone or don't have anyone that can help them with it will decrease rapidly anyway. In my experience it's mostly the same generation as the people that remember WWII.
roundabout-host 3mo ago
They probably think that they do not use "social media" either, so it does not affect them. But elders are not the only category. In any case, it is fundamentally wrong to be forced to use a specific platform, American or European, mobile or desktop, for Internet service access.
perching_aix 3mo ago
I don't think this is relevant for them by definition, so that's an odd point to raise. It's hard to be encumbered by having to manage a digital identity, when you don't do anything digitally in the first place.
mghackerlady 3mo ago
And the youths who just... don't like smartphones. We exist
- wobfan 3mo ago

g-b-r 3mo ago

It should be stressed that Play Integrity also requires having a Google account and logging in to it on the phone.

perching_aix 3mo ago

I guess it's that time of the week again. Do we have a sockpuppet account to welcome in you by any chance? The (actual) complaint of the thread appears to be resolved already (which would make sense given this is old news): > In the README, the following is listed: >> App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation The README.md does not appear to feature such a section (nor any of the other files for that matter). Separately, the title is editorializing, and falsely suggests there's some big bad EU app, even though the app that does exist is merely a reference implementation, not for end user usage. There's a reason the repository you're linking a discussion thread from only holds specs. Edit: > the specification does not prohibit it My account has been rate-limited, so I'm not able to reply directly. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can appreciate that your title is still quite the lie then. "Not prohibiting it" is very different from "forcing", after all.

roundabout-host 3mo ago
In the thread you will find many examples of national implementations which do require attestation. It was removed from the README as a PR measure, but in practice the specification does not prohibit it, so national implementations will still use it.

kubo6472 3mo ago

Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.

shevy-java 3mo ago
Well, they could change the laws to force people into slavery here, e. g. by forcing them to use US corporations ("if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"). In that case they see age sniffing as ultimate tool of spying on everyone, so this is probably the real goal. What we all can see is that this has never been about children - they are just abused as the red hering here.
- trashb 3mo ago
  > "if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society" It would be a difficult choice but would it really be so bad to be excluded from such a society? Don't a lot of people from silicon valley dream to be farmers in the wildlands?
  - Anoian 3mo ago
    This highly depends on your world view. If you don't care about people or society, then yes you can be right. I, for one, want to be part of society.
  - snottynose 3mo ago
    I mean, if the government would not demolish your house the second they found out about it...
dheera 3mo ago
You won't be able to see a doctor when you're sick. You won't be able to open a bank account to receive your salary. You won't be able to buy train or plane tickets. My point is I am most worried that these kind of "digital verification" type things most impact actual necessities. The social media I couldn't care less about. "I just won't use it" isn't really a solution.

shevy-java 3mo ago

What baffles me the most is how the EU commission constantly works in favour of US corporations in the long run. This is really strange. Something does not work in the explanations given by the EU commission. To me it looks like US lobbyists run the EU here.

xienze 3mo ago
Well, they really, really, really want the end game of tying (real) identity to digital identity. And they want it now, not 10+ years in the future when _theoretically_ there _might_ be some EU-friendly mobile operating system that everyone uses. Right now, Google and Apple are basically the entire smartphone market, so they gotta work with what they've got if they want these plans to come to fruition.
villish 3mo ago
The EU gets billions of dollars from fining US companies. That money is used to pay for a lot of programs and the bean counters don't wan't that source of funding to dry up.

blop 3mo ago

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the strategic value of moving out. However there is ZERO talk about mobile platforms... No alternative solution like linux for the desktop, no money or care given to the few alternative that tentatively exist, and zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU. So whilst the backend guys more or less got the memo about sovereignty, I think there is still a lot of educational work to do regarding end user devices and what kind of digital slavery hole we're digging ourselves in...

cbg0 3mo ago
Isn't AOSP a thing?
- spwa4 3mo ago
  You mean giving China control over it? (because you still need the hardware made, and it's not like the EU commission is even prepared to fix BSPs for that hardware) The EU has endlessly sold critical infrastructure to US, India and China while actively sabotaging efforts to rebuild it and now want it back - for free. This is criticized as having a low chance of success, as well as being a pretty unreasonable demand.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    TIL Google is China
    - spwa4 3mo ago
      You misunderstand, my point is that Non-Google Android is Chinese. Which it obviously is.

skrebbel 3mo ago

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in some misguided bid to beat the pedos. In Roblox’ case, this means sharing your 3D likeness with some sketchy American business who pinky promises to delete said data after. I don’t want random American tech companies to have my kids’ biometric info like that, able to sell it to whoever asks. Nor my passport or anything like that. I’d much prefer a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy, and has no business incentive to sell my data, where I can see what data about me (or my son) is shared with Roblox or whichever sleazy business wants it. Obviously this only makes sense if the government is less sleazy than the average American tech business, but for all its faults, I think that currently holds for the EU (and most of its member countries). There’s plenty precedent of EU governments doing privacy-conscious apps right (the Dutch covid tracking app comes to mind). I hope they see reason and fix this here issue.

knorker 3mo ago
Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. I don't think it's Godwin's Law when you are so spot on, exactly describing the worst case.
- tikkabhuna 3mo ago
  Why would an age verification app need to know your ethnicity/religion? Governments likely already know your name, age, place of birth, so having an app with a standard API for verifying users isn't giving the government additional data.
  - snottynose 3mo ago
    It is one extra attack vector. There is a data leak reported every week, and it is now apparent we cannot trust any organization to handle any datum securely, at all. It has gotten to the point where I now consider every piece of information compromised and sold on the dark web as soon as I am forced to transfer it to a third party. Because those are the odds.

Erikun 3mo ago

Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?

perching_aix 3mo ago
> Am I missing something? Yes, that this post is propaganda.
trashb 3mo ago
From what I can gather from the linked discussion it was started as a pull request or a issue and was transferred to a discussion later. Perhaps some data was lost there? If you expand the comments fully there is also mention of a nuked merge request, I assume it was related to this text. Edit it was not visible from the discussion link but it is visible from the issue link below. Also it seems to be transferred over from a totally different repo? https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
roundabout-host 3mo ago
It used to say that, it was removed as a PR measure, while in practice the national implementations (as you do not use this app, but a national one) require it, because the specification only mandates Android/iOS versions to be provided (it allows others, but no government will do so), and it does not mandate them not to have "attestation".
Deukhoofd 3mo ago
This entire issue is a disaster of a Github issue. It looks like its on the entirely wrong repository. I did eventually find the text in another repository; the one for the Android reference implementation: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui/commit/6b126d98606ed42d1fc845ece8f8a768cc50de6e https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android... It was removed from there to clarify the entire "Hey, this application is not done yet" It being in the reference implementation instead of the spec is a massive difference. One means that it's just there to show an example, and we should push national governments to do it better in their implementations, while the other would mean that it'd be a requirement for all implementations, which it doesn't appear to be. It also looks like the reference implementation removed that functionality entirely several months ago: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui/commit/20c8be04bfccf231bf93f600d1e9172fc03d3f4e https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...

cynicalsecurity 3mo ago

Why the hell EU even needs an age verification app? Who's genius idea is this and what for?

christkv 3mo ago
Step one in the "EU Firewall" and future credit system. Step out of line and get debanked or other things they will come up with to keep you inline.
- grg0 3mo ago
  Age verification is being pushed by US tech companies.
  - christkv 3mo ago
    And we are lapping it up

HelloUsername 3mo ago

Related: "EU age verification app to ban any Android system not licensed by Google" 27-jul-2025 https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1mah79o/eu_age_verification_app_to_ban_any_android_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1mah79o/eu_age_v... and "EU age verification app not planning desktop support" 24-sep-2025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45359074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45359074

g-b-r 3mo ago

What would this be applied to? Let's check the freshly printed report by the "Special Panel on child safety online and potential age restrictions for social media" (https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/d833504d-5ec3-4fac-945f-38e7d0bd5326_en https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/d833504d-5ec3...). We have a definition at the beginning, for "Social media and other digital services (in short, social media+)": “Within the scope of this report, the terms ‘social media+’ and ‘social media and other digital services’, are used to broadly define services that may be available to minors and contain age-inappropriate and/or risky features (for example, addictive and harmful features, among which infinite scroll, autoplay, recommendation algorithms and persistent notifications) and/or content. Social media and other digital services providers include online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties, such as social media, as well as app stores. AI systems posing risks to minors’ safety and development, including AI companions, video games exposing children to harmful commercial practices or dangerous contacts, and video-sharing platforms enabling age-inappropriate access to minors are also included.” So, let's see, services that may contain age-inappropriate and/or risky content, "online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties". How quickly can you come up with something that wouldn't fall in that definition? It seems that anything that allows user-contributed content (such as plain old forums) or communication among users would be comprised in it. And, yes, to be sure we explicitly include app stores (I guess including e.g. F-Droid, and what about software repositories?) and video games with intercommunication features. What is this definition used for? Recommendation 1 of chapter 3: “A harmonised EU-wide access restriction to *social media and other digital services*, including AI companions, for children under 13 is necessary.” This is a report, not law, but it was commissioned by Ursula von der Leyen and “The report is intended to inform future actions to be proposed by the European Commission and EU Member States to reinforce child safety online.”

gentlerain 3mo ago

[dead]

sebastianconcpt 3mo ago

The issue is not the issue, the issue is what their "solution" enables for expanding the surface that governments have for controlling details of how you live your life in the future once accepted.

ozlikethewizard 3mo ago

This is even more than just android, I'm sure there are plenty of us using AOSP forks that do not have google services installed. I think the EU will overturn this with enough noise though. Hopefully the UK doesn't do the same, I've avoided having to root my phone so far and would like to keep it that way if possible.

zombot 3mo ago

Doesn't that mean that Apple and Google are getting all that data about every single affected user?

roundabout-host 3mo ago
They are.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

christkv 3mo ago

Tells us the us is some sort of failed democracy then implements China like access control for the population because they want to ensure they can prosecute you for wrong think in the future. Yeah Im loving this "liberal order" that looks more like good old facism dressed up to look "nice". Even how the passing of chat control was done has ensured I´m voting for any party that will dismantle the EU. EU Parliament is not a democratic of representative institution. Its about as legitimate and democratic as the Duma in Russia.

trallnag 3mo ago

The EU skipped "having kids" and jumped directly to "protecting kids"

Cider9986 3mo ago
Excellent point.
account42 3mo ago
[flagged]

butz 3mo ago

Your app should've been a website.

nullbio 3mo ago

Fuck the globalists.

singingtoday 3mo ago

I would never do this verification with my real face, and neither should anybody else. Kids get around this using video game character creators. You can too. As a netizen it's your duty to avoid, oppose, and circumvent anything that forces you to use your real identity.

jasonvorhe 3mo ago

Don't use it. Don't even consider it. Do whatever it takes to let everyone know you're not gonna use this and tell your friends the same. These corrupt bafoons talk of sovereignty and then they pull stunts like this. Even if you're totally pro EU, vote with your actions if you can't outvote the Commission.

fancyfredbot 3mo ago
Buffoon (not bafoon).
- jasonvorhe 3mo ago
  Thanks, I really had no idea!
wobfan 3mo ago
I will try my best, but at some point I feel this won't help. 98% of people have no problem with this. In fact they probably even see this as a positive, finally they don't have to identify via these shitty video services from various call centers anymore, and even the children are perfectly safe now. I am quite pessimistic. They couldn't care less about some 2% of people who just stop using their services.
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  You are wrong. Maybe 2% aren't OK with it, but 98% of the 2% will still give in to avoid losing their "normality".

TacticalCoder 3mo ago

> European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS As a european if I wanted to see the glass half-full I'd say: at least the good news is that from that headline we can name a gigantic loser... Microsoft.

duxup 3mo ago

The unintended consequence of poorly thought out regulations (good or bad) can be wild. I’m still having to deal with making some sort of legal agreement with EVERY website I visit over cookies constantly… I just don’t care anymore / click whatever.

Nicholas_C 3mo ago
I'm confused on why browsers can't automatically handle the cookies pop ups. It's beyond annoying and something that should just be automated since my preferences don't change.
- duxup 3mo ago
  It should be very easy. But for whatever reasons they chose to make this the people’s problem… constantly. Same goes for age ID things too.
- watwut 3mo ago
  The companies strongly opposed such thing in browsers. That is why.
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  Google started to lobby by using a dramatisation: "if it is easy to reject advertising cookies, the whole Web advertising industry will go extinct!"
lionkor 3mo ago
Consentomatic does most common cookie dialogs, according to your settings. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/consent-o-matic/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/consent-o-mat... It also exists for other browsers. I am not affiliated,but I have it on my devices and even on my phone, it's quite good and I very rarely get cookie popups now.
- kobalsky 3mo ago
  then you have an extension with full access to everything. unless it's one of the big guys, devs either sell the extensions or get hacked, it has happened multiple times.

eur0pa 3mo ago

Not gonna use it, and if forced I’ll just retire from the internet. I’ve been around since 1996, it’s high time anyways.

consp 3mo ago

I'm still wondering how this is compatible with laws concerning disabilities, the elderly and those with certain religious believes. They already keep everything governmental related multi modal (you must be able to do it some other way, and almost always this include by proxy and on paper). This is some Draconian way of doing it.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

0xbadcafebee 3mo ago

Guys, you don't understand, their hands are tied! They need to make the children safe from seeing boobies by forcing mass surveillance on everyone (despite the fact that children can trivially get around it)... and to force mass surveillance on everyone, they need to capitulate to American tech companies. It's unfortunate, but you'll just have to give up your privacy.

sunaookami 3mo ago

Fuck everyone supporting this surveillance "app", everyone helping implementing this should be ashamed. Thanks for turning the EU into a dictatorship.

CircuitSeuss 3mo ago

What if… we all just agree age verification is bad for everyone and move on?

fredwilson930 3mo ago

[dead]

greatgib 3mo ago

We should remember the name of the rats that are working on this thing to ensure to never hire them or block them from everything we can for being the proud killer of our freedom in Europe...