6 ms·

The unprecedented era of gambling on literally everything everywhere is an absolute cancer on society, made completely legal by absolute greed and degeneracy at

The unprecedented era of gambling on literally everything everywhere is an absolute cancer on society, made completely legal by absolute greed and degeneracy at the highest levels of government. I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies).

abirch 3mo ago
This has an outsized impact on young men.
tangenter 3mo ago
I try to run YouTube in librewolf with adblockers stacked to the tits but every so often I have to use Chrome. The volume of gambling ads is repugnant.
- el_io 3mo ago
  Ublock Origin Lite is quite capable.
- nradov 3mo ago
  It probably depends on the algorithm. I never see gambling ads on YouTube.
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    Also country. Visited Sweden recently, gambling ads everyone on the internet, on TV and in public spaces, but back home Spain I still see some, but nowhere near the level as it was in Sweden.
hebleb 3mo ago
It may take awhile, but it ends by voting in political candidates that actually care about combatting greed and corruption again
- throwaway27448 3mo ago
  Democracy doesn't exactly have a long history of stable states, and the US only been a liberal democracy for about 60 years. In that time we've done very little to hold politicians accountable. It's not clear there is a democratic fix outside of the theoretical realm. Nobody wants to kill the golden goose....
  - dieselgate 3mo ago
    Genuinely curious what the golden goose refers to here?
    - throwaway27448 3mo ago
      There's a lot of money in gambling. Nobody seems to want do anything that might depress the economy, even if it means the death of democracy.
      - topgrain2 3mo ago
        See also: the healthcare system, and the military. We pump spectacular amounts of money (~10% of GDP in the former case based on diffing high-end-of-normal healthcare costs for peer states with ours, and who knows how much in the latter but probably around the same) into white collar and blue collar (respectively) jobs programs and wage-supplementation that buy us basically nothing. A ton worse than a proper jobs program building public infrastructure (the CCC or something) or dumping that money into doctor training or whatever. Extremely poor ROI, but we can't touch them or GDP craters (nominally only—these aren't producing much in the first place, the P part of GDP, of course, which is probably part of why the US doesn't feel as rich as it looks on paper)
        Spooky23 3mo ago
        The military thing is a much bigger flywheel. A lot of technology really comes out of military research or is supported in key ways by military projects. Healthcare was similar until the wage stagnation really started impacting the ability to deliver service. It went from 9% of GDP in 1970 to 19% today, supported by payroll that has risen way under inflation. About 20% of the US economy is killing people, 20% healing people, and the rest is everything else.
dheera 3mo ago
I mean, it's instilled into society at every level in the US. If your company offers an FSA, it's asking to make a gamble on how much medical needs you'll have in the next 1 year. The "smart" way to write the tax law would be to just let taxpayers deduct whatever medical expenses they have at tax reporting time. But instead, they want you to make a bet because you're highly likely to either (a) not use all of it and lose it, or (b) realize you haven't spent all of it and spend it on random shit you wouldn't have otherwise bought, handing over profits to some suppliers who are in on the whole game, or (c) underestimate your medical needs and the tax man gets to tax some more of your money. Stuff like this is all over the place in American life.
- ambicapter 3mo ago
  Conflating unavoidable risk in life with games designed to entice you to play while guaranteeing that you will lose is certainly some sort of perverse argument.
  - dheera 3mo ago
    I'm not conflating anything here. Nobody should be asked to make bets on their medical needs. They should just be allowed to tax deduct everything when the need arises. You ARE almost-guaranteed to lose the FSA game, basically. You'll either bet too much or too little, and the collective house wins either way. In my opinion, it's even more sickening that the system is designed to scalp a few extra bucks off of peoples' medical situations in this way. The gambling on sports, I could care less about.
    - reaperducer 3mo ago
      Nobody should be asked to make bets on their medical needs. Your entire argument sounds very much like how certain religions are against insurance because they view it as gambling. It's led to the rise of an even riskier practice of shared health benefit pools, which market themselves as not being insurance even though they're pretty much the same thing as "mutual insurance," except that when you need them most, suddenly they're not insurance at all. It also sounds very young. When you get over a certain age, you WILL use up that FSA. Every. Single. Year. And if you're young enough not to, there are plenty of over-the-counter everyday goods that qualify for FSA, like Tylenol.
DeluluDon 3mo ago
It's really terrible. Gambling addiction is a serious issue that needs to be educated towards people first before any 'Kalshi' mention. I suppose that's what those 'Gambling problem?'ads are for. Well we don't need ads. We need responsible education against the effects of gambling addiction or we need to raise wages, which is it?
- miltonlost 3mo ago
  Or we could also ban sports betting apps and Kalshi and Polymarket. Where does raising wages have to deal with this?
spike021 3mo ago
Even something that should be as fun as collecting and trading cards (baseball, pokemon, etc.) revolves around "pull odds" for rare cards. There are people spending thousands of dollars monthly just to rip a desirable card they could flip for money that in most cases would never make up for how much they spent just buying packs and boxes of the product.
- jorts 3mo ago
  I was taking an Uber from Sonoma back to the Bay, and the driver was one of those people. He wouldn't stop talking about how he was spending thousands a month on rare cards, then reselling them, all the while losing money, his wife, etc.
  - spike021 3mo ago
    I really got into baseball cards a few years back. It is fun to collect for favorite players and all but once you realize it's a money pit you either are too deep and addicted or you're able to wean yourself back off it. Fortunately it was the latter for me. I'd love to keep buying the stuff but it's such a waste. Better to buy singles I actually want. It's just not as fun as me being the one who pulled the card.
keiferski 3mo ago
Society needs to rediscover the idea that not all moral judgements are religious in nature, and in many cases are just basic pragmatic ones. The bans on gambling were often framed in Christian terms, so as society became more secular, they were undone. Now they probably need to be re-added with practical reasoning.
- peder 3mo ago
  Rediscovering first principles
- thrance 3mo ago
  I disagree with your assessment, the ban wasn't undone because of secularism. In fact, this prediction market craze was embraced by the right almost instantly, which is the side currently most favored by Christians.
  - keiferski 3mo ago
    Gambling bans have been slowly undone for decades. This isn’t something that happened in the recent MAGA populist era; which is the portion of the right that seems to be okay with the gambling stuff.
    - thrance 3mo ago
      I mean, white evangelicals largely sided with Trump last year, so I don't know how cleanly you can separate Christianity (as it currently exists in the USA) from MAGA populism and what policies the movement favors.
      - keiferski 3mo ago
        I don’t think it’s that difficult. Evangelicals’ beliefs and who they vote for are not the same thing; they largely seem to have voted for his Supreme Court nominees and consequently decisions like Roe. That’s a reality of a two party system. Evangelicals are also but one branch of Christianity, something like a third of American Christians, so to suggest that it is the same is wrong from the start.
JumpinJack_Cash 3mo ago
> > The unprecedented era of gambling on literally everything everywhere is an absolute cancer on society, made completely legal by absolute greed and degeneracy at the highest levels of government. I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). It is just showing you in the clear what propaganda managed to hide from you with regards to the stock market and the bond market , and all the other markets for that matter. Insiders do trade and it's impossible to stop them or catch them, and the further you are from the information (both geographically and socially) the harder it is to be first in line and more probably you are next to last in line and you gotta pray that you find some bigger fool to sell your bags to. If anything there are some things on the prediction markets that really give the advantage to the small guy, for example some farmer whose family has been living there for many years could have a big advantage on weather forecasters and those who bet on them. Say they see the wind pick up or a particular cloud formation that gives an expert eye the idea that rain is gonna come whereas forecasters won't see it coming
xg15 3mo ago
What I find almost as depressing is evidently the concerted push to normalize this practice. We were all shocked by Polymarket, but meanwhile others just saw it as yet another emerging market - and now CNN is including it in news segments as if it were the most ordinary thing in the world.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- nradov 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - add-sub-mul-div 3mo ago
    Of course. They didn't treat 45 like a real candidate in 2015 because he deserved to be seen as one, they did it because it's lowest common denominator content and it's what people watch.
  - reaperducer 3mo ago
    People still watch CNN? 910,000 in prime time hours in April, which is 909,999 more than you. https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-cable-news-ratings-for-april-2026/ https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-cable-news-rati...
- ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
  We are incredibly market-brained at this point. A certain kind of person loves markets because they provide decisions on complex questions at scale. And like, that's not NEVER true, but it also takes for granted a lot of rational thinking among people who act completely irrationally with incredible regularity. Perhaps our greatest cultural fiction right now is the "rationality" of markets, and people are looking for insight more than ever on our insane world. So that makes perfect sense to me, really.
  - Terr_ 3mo ago
    > A certain kind of person loves markets because they provide decisions on complex questions at scale. And like, that's not NEVER true, but it also takes for granted a lot of rational thinking It also tends to assume a certain hypothetical ideal of perfect information, where all prices and transactions are public, secret deals don't exist, and ownership/interests are never hidden.
deaton 3mo ago
Its just another symptom of the silicon valley startup "do something illegal, scale fast, and dare the government to do something about it" business model. It is an absolute cancer to society, if there is such a thing as late stage capitalism that is it, and we need to vaporize companies that do it with fines and jail time. On a broader scale it can be viewed as part of modern culture going towards "screw everyone else, I'm gonna do whatever to get ahead." Kids on tiktok are teaching each other how to scam people. At this rate we'll have scam call centers in the US by the end of the decade and nobody will do anything about it.
allthetime 3mo ago
"I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle" laws, that's how. push it back down to the dark net where most people can't be bothered to get at it.
spacechild1 3mo ago
> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle Just ban or regulate it? It's only a form gambling after all.
blini-kot 3mo ago
there was a certain approach tried back in 1917 in Russia isn't without its issues of course, but you know, desperate times call for desperate measures
testbjjl 3mo ago
Feels like we’re the ones being put in a bottle as rational thinking, integrity, consideration of the greater good on all things big and small are interpreted as being weak and/or arresting people’s freedoms. When you forget hard learned lessons, they have a way of reminding you eventually.
- Spooky23 3mo ago
  Something bad will happen, and the idiots will just follow whatever the next thing is.
martythemaniak 3mo ago
Here's an answer for you: we need a new temperance movement. Sounds pretty ridiculous at first, but that's because people know little of the temperance and progressive movements of the late 19th and early 20th century besides "prohibition failed". There was a whole lot more to it than mere anti-alcohol push, it included labour rights and reform (Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, etc), Anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws, anti-political corruption, consumer protection (food regulation), women's suffrage, etc. The 20th century progressives essentially saw a huge concentration of money and power turning society into a cruel, exploitative machine that ground people up and spat them out. Rampant alcoholism was only one part of it. A modern version would be different in details but similar overall. Alcohol and cigarettes are not major problems, but corruption, monopoly, and engineered addiction are very real and very problematic. A new temperance movement would be about tackling rampant gabling and addiction (everything from gas station drugs to social media algorithms), political corruption, tech monopolies, misinformation etc. Big problems need big solutions, but I suspect things will have to get worse before people realize the scale of the problem they're facing.
anduril22 3mo ago
It's both a key driver and symptom of societal disintegration and ultimate downfall.
nlarew 3mo ago
You are 100% free to not gamble
- baggachipz 3mo ago
  And I don't, save for a Super Bowl square or fantasy football entry fees. My point is that it's doing real damage to the most vulnerable and acting like it's some flippant choice is both myopic and selfish.
lenerdenator 3mo ago
> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). You severely punish those involved with prison time for whatever you can find on them. And I'm not talking a few months at Club Fed.
Austiiiiii 3mo ago
Yeah, the prevailing fear (at least out loud) is that going after "outcome markets" would open Pandora's box on everything from options and futures to the very concept of insurance. Obviously there's a huge and easily definable difference, but people love their slippery slopes, and nuanced discussion would mean giving up an easy way for connected people to cash in on non-public knowledge.
pacman1337 3mo ago
Adults should have the freedom to gamble if they feel like gambling. I don't like the government trying to daddy me. If I want to blow my money on some stupid bet that is my problem. As long as the rules are clear and fair then it should absolutely be legal. CNN not disclosing is bad, but that has nothing to do with gambling in general.
throw0101a 3mo ago
> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). Why don't we just let The Market™ decide? /s

abirch 3mo ago

This has an outsized impact on young men.

tangenter 3mo ago

I try to run YouTube in librewolf with adblockers stacked to the tits but every so often I have to use Chrome. The volume of gambling ads is repugnant.

el_io 3mo ago
Ublock Origin Lite is quite capable.
nradov 3mo ago
It probably depends on the algorithm. I never see gambling ads on YouTube.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  Also country. Visited Sweden recently, gambling ads everyone on the internet, on TV and in public spaces, but back home Spain I still see some, but nowhere near the level as it was in Sweden.

hebleb 3mo ago

It may take awhile, but it ends by voting in political candidates that actually care about combatting greed and corruption again

throwaway27448 3mo ago
Democracy doesn't exactly have a long history of stable states, and the US only been a liberal democracy for about 60 years. In that time we've done very little to hold politicians accountable. It's not clear there is a democratic fix outside of the theoretical realm. Nobody wants to kill the golden goose....
- dieselgate 3mo ago
  Genuinely curious what the golden goose refers to here?
  - throwaway27448 3mo ago
    There's a lot of money in gambling. Nobody seems to want do anything that might depress the economy, even if it means the death of democracy.
    - topgrain2 3mo ago
      See also: the healthcare system, and the military. We pump spectacular amounts of money (~10% of GDP in the former case based on diffing high-end-of-normal healthcare costs for peer states with ours, and who knows how much in the latter but probably around the same) into white collar and blue collar (respectively) jobs programs and wage-supplementation that buy us basically nothing. A ton worse than a proper jobs program building public infrastructure (the CCC or something) or dumping that money into doctor training or whatever. Extremely poor ROI, but we can't touch them or GDP craters (nominally only—these aren't producing much in the first place, the P part of GDP, of course, which is probably part of why the US doesn't feel as rich as it looks on paper)
      - Spooky23 3mo ago
        The military thing is a much bigger flywheel. A lot of technology really comes out of military research or is supported in key ways by military projects. Healthcare was similar until the wage stagnation really started impacting the ability to deliver service. It went from 9% of GDP in 1970 to 19% today, supported by payroll that has risen way under inflation. About 20% of the US economy is killing people, 20% healing people, and the rest is everything else.

dheera 3mo ago

I mean, it's instilled into society at every level in the US. If your company offers an FSA, it's asking to make a gamble on how much medical needs you'll have in the next 1 year. The "smart" way to write the tax law would be to just let taxpayers deduct whatever medical expenses they have at tax reporting time. But instead, they want you to make a bet because you're highly likely to either (a) not use all of it and lose it, or (b) realize you haven't spent all of it and spend it on random shit you wouldn't have otherwise bought, handing over profits to some suppliers who are in on the whole game, or (c) underestimate your medical needs and the tax man gets to tax some more of your money. Stuff like this is all over the place in American life.

ambicapter 3mo ago
Conflating unavoidable risk in life with games designed to entice you to play while guaranteeing that you will lose is certainly some sort of perverse argument.
- dheera 3mo ago
  I'm not conflating anything here. Nobody should be asked to make bets on their medical needs. They should just be allowed to tax deduct everything when the need arises. You ARE almost-guaranteed to lose the FSA game, basically. You'll either bet too much or too little, and the collective house wins either way. In my opinion, it's even more sickening that the system is designed to scalp a few extra bucks off of peoples' medical situations in this way. The gambling on sports, I could care less about.
  - reaperducer 3mo ago
    Nobody should be asked to make bets on their medical needs. Your entire argument sounds very much like how certain religions are against insurance because they view it as gambling. It's led to the rise of an even riskier practice of shared health benefit pools, which market themselves as not being insurance even though they're pretty much the same thing as "mutual insurance," except that when you need them most, suddenly they're not insurance at all. It also sounds very young. When you get over a certain age, you WILL use up that FSA. Every. Single. Year. And if you're young enough not to, there are plenty of over-the-counter everyday goods that qualify for FSA, like Tylenol.

DeluluDon 3mo ago

It's really terrible. Gambling addiction is a serious issue that needs to be educated towards people first before any 'Kalshi' mention. I suppose that's what those 'Gambling problem?'ads are for. Well we don't need ads. We need responsible education against the effects of gambling addiction or we need to raise wages, which is it?

miltonlost 3mo ago
Or we could also ban sports betting apps and Kalshi and Polymarket. Where does raising wages have to deal with this?

spike021 3mo ago

Even something that should be as fun as collecting and trading cards (baseball, pokemon, etc.) revolves around "pull odds" for rare cards. There are people spending thousands of dollars monthly just to rip a desirable card they could flip for money that in most cases would never make up for how much they spent just buying packs and boxes of the product.

jorts 3mo ago
I was taking an Uber from Sonoma back to the Bay, and the driver was one of those people. He wouldn't stop talking about how he was spending thousands a month on rare cards, then reselling them, all the while losing money, his wife, etc.
- spike021 3mo ago
  I really got into baseball cards a few years back. It is fun to collect for favorite players and all but once you realize it's a money pit you either are too deep and addicted or you're able to wean yourself back off it. Fortunately it was the latter for me. I'd love to keep buying the stuff but it's such a waste. Better to buy singles I actually want. It's just not as fun as me being the one who pulled the card.

keiferski 3mo ago

Society needs to rediscover the idea that not all moral judgements are religious in nature, and in many cases are just basic pragmatic ones. The bans on gambling were often framed in Christian terms, so as society became more secular, they were undone. Now they probably need to be re-added with practical reasoning.

peder 3mo ago
Rediscovering first principles
thrance 3mo ago
I disagree with your assessment, the ban wasn't undone because of secularism. In fact, this prediction market craze was embraced by the right almost instantly, which is the side currently most favored by Christians.
- keiferski 3mo ago
  Gambling bans have been slowly undone for decades. This isn’t something that happened in the recent MAGA populist era; which is the portion of the right that seems to be okay with the gambling stuff.
  - thrance 3mo ago
    I mean, white evangelicals largely sided with Trump last year, so I don't know how cleanly you can separate Christianity (as it currently exists in the USA) from MAGA populism and what policies the movement favors.
    - keiferski 3mo ago
      I don’t think it’s that difficult. Evangelicals’ beliefs and who they vote for are not the same thing; they largely seem to have voted for his Supreme Court nominees and consequently decisions like Roe. That’s a reality of a two party system. Evangelicals are also but one branch of Christianity, something like a third of American Christians, so to suggest that it is the same is wrong from the start.

JumpinJack_Cash 3mo ago

> > The unprecedented era of gambling on literally everything everywhere is an absolute cancer on society, made completely legal by absolute greed and degeneracy at the highest levels of government. I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). It is just showing you in the clear what propaganda managed to hide from you with regards to the stock market and the bond market , and all the other markets for that matter. Insiders do trade and it's impossible to stop them or catch them, and the further you are from the information (both geographically and socially) the harder it is to be first in line and more probably you are next to last in line and you gotta pray that you find some bigger fool to sell your bags to. If anything there are some things on the prediction markets that really give the advantage to the small guy, for example some farmer whose family has been living there for many years could have a big advantage on weather forecasters and those who bet on them. Say they see the wind pick up or a particular cloud formation that gives an expert eye the idea that rain is gonna come whereas forecasters won't see it coming

xg15 3mo ago

What I find almost as depressing is evidently the concerted push to normalize this practice. We were all shocked by Polymarket, but meanwhile others just saw it as yet another emerging market - and now CNN is including it in news segments as if it were the most ordinary thing in the world.

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
nradov 3mo ago
[flagged]
- add-sub-mul-div 3mo ago
  Of course. They didn't treat 45 like a real candidate in 2015 because he deserved to be seen as one, they did it because it's lowest common denominator content and it's what people watch.
- reaperducer 3mo ago
  People still watch CNN? 910,000 in prime time hours in April, which is 909,999 more than you. https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-cable-news-ratings-for-april-2026/ https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-cable-news-rati...
ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
We are incredibly market-brained at this point. A certain kind of person loves markets because they provide decisions on complex questions at scale. And like, that's not NEVER true, but it also takes for granted a lot of rational thinking among people who act completely irrationally with incredible regularity. Perhaps our greatest cultural fiction right now is the "rationality" of markets, and people are looking for insight more than ever on our insane world. So that makes perfect sense to me, really.
- Terr_ 3mo ago
  > A certain kind of person loves markets because they provide decisions on complex questions at scale. And like, that's not NEVER true, but it also takes for granted a lot of rational thinking It also tends to assume a certain hypothetical ideal of perfect information, where all prices and transactions are public, secret deals don't exist, and ownership/interests are never hidden.

deaton 3mo ago

Its just another symptom of the silicon valley startup "do something illegal, scale fast, and dare the government to do something about it" business model. It is an absolute cancer to society, if there is such a thing as late stage capitalism that is it, and we need to vaporize companies that do it with fines and jail time. On a broader scale it can be viewed as part of modern culture going towards "screw everyone else, I'm gonna do whatever to get ahead." Kids on tiktok are teaching each other how to scam people. At this rate we'll have scam call centers in the US by the end of the decade and nobody will do anything about it.

allthetime 3mo ago

"I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle" laws, that's how. push it back down to the dark net where most people can't be bothered to get at it.

spacechild1 3mo ago

> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle Just ban or regulate it? It's only a form gambling after all.

blini-kot 3mo ago

there was a certain approach tried back in 1917 in Russia isn't without its issues of course, but you know, desperate times call for desperate measures

testbjjl 3mo ago

Feels like we’re the ones being put in a bottle as rational thinking, integrity, consideration of the greater good on all things big and small are interpreted as being weak and/or arresting people’s freedoms. When you forget hard learned lessons, they have a way of reminding you eventually.

Spooky23 3mo ago
Something bad will happen, and the idiots will just follow whatever the next thing is.

martythemaniak 3mo ago

Here's an answer for you: we need a new temperance movement. Sounds pretty ridiculous at first, but that's because people know little of the temperance and progressive movements of the late 19th and early 20th century besides "prohibition failed". There was a whole lot more to it than mere anti-alcohol push, it included labour rights and reform (Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, etc), Anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws, anti-political corruption, consumer protection (food regulation), women's suffrage, etc. The 20th century progressives essentially saw a huge concentration of money and power turning society into a cruel, exploitative machine that ground people up and spat them out. Rampant alcoholism was only one part of it. A modern version would be different in details but similar overall. Alcohol and cigarettes are not major problems, but corruption, monopoly, and engineered addiction are very real and very problematic. A new temperance movement would be about tackling rampant gabling and addiction (everything from gas station drugs to social media algorithms), political corruption, tech monopolies, misinformation etc. Big problems need big solutions, but I suspect things will have to get worse before people realize the scale of the problem they're facing.

anduril22 3mo ago

It's both a key driver and symptom of societal disintegration and ultimate downfall.

nlarew 3mo ago

You are 100% free to not gamble

baggachipz 3mo ago
And I don't, save for a Super Bowl square or fantasy football entry fees. My point is that it's doing real damage to the most vulnerable and acting like it's some flippant choice is both myopic and selfish.

lenerdenator 3mo ago

> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). You severely punish those involved with prison time for whatever you can find on them. And I'm not talking a few months at Club Fed.

Austiiiiii 3mo ago

Yeah, the prevailing fear (at least out loud) is that going after "outcome markets" would open Pandora's box on everything from options and futures to the very concept of insurance. Obviously there's a huge and easily definable difference, but people love their slippery slopes, and nuanced discussion would mean giving up an easy way for connected people to cash in on non-public knowledge.

pacman1337 3mo ago

Adults should have the freedom to gamble if they feel like gambling. I don't like the government trying to daddy me. If I want to blow my money on some stupid bet that is my problem. As long as the rules are clear and fair then it should absolutely be legal. CNN not disclosing is bad, but that has nothing to do with gambling in general.

throw0101a 3mo ago

> I don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle (amongst many detrimental genies). Why don't we just let The Market™ decide? /s