4 ms·

I literally will not buy a car that has a microprocessor in it (I will, apparently, never buy a car)

danielheath 3mo ago
I mean, "no microprocessor" means no engine designed in the past 30 years, because the fuel pump needs one. "No antenna/modem I can't readily remove" might be _slightly_ more achievable.
- MBCook 3mo ago
  50, as another commenter pointed out.
  - xstas1 3mo ago
    That was the first such car. Even though the automatic transmission was invented a long time ago, new cars are still made with manual ones
- ahepp 3mo ago
  I'm guessing you mean fuel injector? The pump that pushes or pulls fuel up from your tank is not very sophisticated, afaik. Fuel injector timing and quantity, along with ignition timing, is generally computer controlled, certainly on any modern vehicle.
donkey_brains 3mo ago
That’s a very hard line
AnotherGoodName 3mo ago
TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) is a coin battery powered computer inside each tyre of your car. They’ve been around for a couple of decades now. Even the lowest end cars have TPMS in each wheel. If you change wheels you need to go to a wheel shop and have them re pair (as in re pair wifi) the wheel with your car. I had to do this recently with my 2014 ford focus. Anyway those are just four of hundreds of computers in your car these days.
- throwaway27448 3mo ago
  Not exactly a great example as it's unnecessary and expensive to replace. Lots of other microprocessors actually make your car easier and safer to drive.
  - xyzzy_plugh 3mo ago
    A TPMS doesn't make your car easier and safer to drive???
    - throwaway27448 3mo ago
      You can buy a tire gauge at a gas station for $10 and check your tires when you clean your car. But then again, I am old enough perhaps to have been taught to regularly check your tires before driving to begin with.
      - sokoloff 3mo ago
        Did I just read an argument that it’s easier or safer to manually check your tire pressures rather than having the car do it automatically every time the car drives fast enough to “wake up” the TPMS units?
        throwaway27448 3mo ago
        It's easier to do that than to pay to replace them when the battery dies. Just stop adding more unnecessary costs to my car maintenance!
        bluGill 3mo ago
        That battery lasts longer than the tire. People sometimes try to say but I don't drive my car much and that doesn't change the math because tires are destroyed not just from the way of driving but also the sun and ozone in the air destroy tires it still needs to be replaced every seven years., it still needs to be replaced every seven years.
LeoPanthera 3mo ago
The 1977 Oldsmobile Toronado is generally considered to be the first car to have microprocessor control. But Ford's EEC was built around Toshiba's TLCS-12, the world's first 12-bit microprocessor, developed specifically for engine control, and might have been in cars produced prior to 77, but documentation is spotty. So do you only drive cars built prior to the late 70s? Because sacrificing the enormous safety improvements just for a bizarre feeling of moral superiority is a really awful hill to die on. And literal death is a real possibility Or do you not drive and never planned to buy any kind of car and thus your claim is meaningless?
- bluGill 3mo ago
  You can get up to 1983 without computers if that's what you're looking for. 1984, they all had computers. Then if it had a carburetor, there was still a computer somehow controlling that carburetor.
Telaneo 3mo ago
I don't think this is a useful stance to take for more or less any reason (any reason you can point to will have a different underlying issue). Cars functionally have to have microprocessors, if nothing else but to control emissions, and that's a good thing. I don't want society to smell of exhaust, so that's an obvious and gigantic benefit. There are many other good reasons to have them, like rear cameras, tire pressure sensors, infotainment, the lot. There are downsides, but many boil down to 'manufacturers are knobheads' (data collection, pushing subscriptions) and lessened control (tuning computers can be easier than tuning mechanics, you just aren't given control, so this to is arguably a case of 'manufacturers are knobheads', or sometimes liability issues).

I mean, "no microprocessor" means no engine designed in the past 30 years, because the fuel pump needs one. "No antenna/modem I can't readily remove" might be _slightly_ more achievable.

MBCook 3mo ago
50, as another commenter pointed out.
- xstas1 3mo ago
  That was the first such car. Even though the automatic transmission was invented a long time ago, new cars are still made with manual ones
ahepp 3mo ago
I'm guessing you mean fuel injector? The pump that pushes or pulls fuel up from your tank is not very sophisticated, afaik. Fuel injector timing and quantity, along with ignition timing, is generally computer controlled, certainly on any modern vehicle.

donkey_brains 3mo ago

That’s a very hard line

AnotherGoodName 3mo ago

TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) is a coin battery powered computer inside each tyre of your car. They’ve been around for a couple of decades now. Even the lowest end cars have TPMS in each wheel. If you change wheels you need to go to a wheel shop and have them re pair (as in re pair wifi) the wheel with your car. I had to do this recently with my 2014 ford focus. Anyway those are just four of hundreds of computers in your car these days.

throwaway27448 3mo ago
Not exactly a great example as it's unnecessary and expensive to replace. Lots of other microprocessors actually make your car easier and safer to drive.
- xyzzy_plugh 3mo ago
  A TPMS doesn't make your car easier and safer to drive???
  - throwaway27448 3mo ago
    You can buy a tire gauge at a gas station for $10 and check your tires when you clean your car. But then again, I am old enough perhaps to have been taught to regularly check your tires before driving to begin with.
    - sokoloff 3mo ago
      Did I just read an argument that it’s easier or safer to manually check your tire pressures rather than having the car do it automatically every time the car drives fast enough to “wake up” the TPMS units?
      - throwaway27448 3mo ago
        It's easier to do that than to pay to replace them when the battery dies. Just stop adding more unnecessary costs to my car maintenance!
        bluGill 3mo ago
        That battery lasts longer than the tire. People sometimes try to say but I don't drive my car much and that doesn't change the math because tires are destroyed not just from the way of driving but also the sun and ozone in the air destroy tires it still needs to be replaced every seven years., it still needs to be replaced every seven years.

LeoPanthera 3mo ago

The 1977 Oldsmobile Toronado is generally considered to be the first car to have microprocessor control. But Ford's EEC was built around Toshiba's TLCS-12, the world's first 12-bit microprocessor, developed specifically for engine control, and might have been in cars produced prior to 77, but documentation is spotty. So do you only drive cars built prior to the late 70s? Because sacrificing the enormous safety improvements just for a bizarre feeling of moral superiority is a really awful hill to die on. And literal death is a real possibility Or do you not drive and never planned to buy any kind of car and thus your claim is meaningless?

bluGill 3mo ago
You can get up to 1983 without computers if that's what you're looking for. 1984, they all had computers. Then if it had a carburetor, there was still a computer somehow controlling that carburetor.

Telaneo 3mo ago

I don't think this is a useful stance to take for more or less any reason (any reason you can point to will have a different underlying issue). Cars functionally have to have microprocessors, if nothing else but to control emissions, and that's a good thing. I don't want society to smell of exhaust, so that's an obvious and gigantic benefit. There are many other good reasons to have them, like rear cameras, tire pressure sensors, infotainment, the lot. There are downsides, but many boil down to 'manufacturers are knobheads' (data collection, pushing subscriptions) and lessened control (tuning computers can be easier than tuning mechanics, you just aren't given control, so this to is arguably a case of 'manufacturers are knobheads', or sometimes liability issues).