10 ms·
Hi, Mullvad has two owners, founders, and CEOs - Daniel Berntsson, and me, Fredrik Strömberg. All posts I've seen yesterday and today, including the newspaper
by kfreds 3mo ago
Hi,
Mullvad has two owners, founders, and CEOs - Daniel Berntsson, and me, Fredrik Strömberg. All posts I've seen yesterday and today, including the newspaper articles, talk about Mullvad as if Daniel is the single owner, founder and CEO. It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission.
If you have any questions, comments or concerns you're welcome to comment on this thread, or email our customer support.
See below for the response you'll get from support:
-----
Mullvad is a political company. We fight for freedom of speech, freedom of information and the right to privacy. These are firmly held values of the founders of Mullvad.
Mullvad protects the right for people to express things we don't agree with. We protect the right of everyone to access views we don't agree with.
We also live these values by being tolerant in our daily work. Everyone is welcome to collaborate with Mullvad if they share these narrow core values. As employees, contractors, customers, suppliers, lobbyists, campaign partners or whatever it might be. No matter what their other opinions are and no matter whether the founders or anyone else in Mullvad dislike them. The founders themselves fundamentally disagree on several important issues.
This is what allows us to advance our common causes. Being in a tolerant and intellectually open environment is also liberating and promotes truth seeking.
The more people do this, the better a place the world will be.
It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission, in the same way that someone's opinions on animal rights, taxes or public healthcare policy isn't.
That said, if you no longer want to be a Mullvad customer for philosophical reasons, we think it's important to honor that. In that case, reach out to support.
- actualwitch 3mo agoHello Fredrik! As a heavy user of Mullvad in the past, easily spending hundreds of euros over the years, I was reserving my judgement to see what the official statement on this would be. Thank you, now I have my answer. > It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission. It should be obvious that what people are concerned is their money being used to support these political causes, whether it was done in a way that keeps the company out of it or not is besides the point. Daniel, of course, is free to choose what to do with his money. I am, too, and based on this I will be making a choice to not spend any more money on Mullvad subscriptions. Nothing personal, and it's a shame because I have nothing but praise for the technical side of it. So long, and thanks for all the fish.
- jasonvorhe 3mo agoIt should be obvious that he's perfectly fine with your decision because he wrote exactly that in the post you just replied to.
- kfreds 3mo agoOf course. Sorry to hear you're leaving. Thank you for the compliment.
- vrganj 3mo agoHi Fredrik, long time user of your service. I have to say, this is a disappointing message. The thing about intolerant movements is that tolerance doesn't fix them, it makes them worse and lets them accumulate power until they can destroy the tolerant. I'd recommend reading Karl Popper and his Paradox of Tolerance, which he formulated after seeing this exact thing play out in his native Austria with the rise of the Nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- phendrenad2 3mo ago[flagged]
- vrganj 3mo agoFascism isn't a generic term for "things I don't like". It is a very specific ideology responsible for the worst atrocities in history that needs to be ruthlessly stomped out as soon as it rears its ugly head again. This isn't about opinions or tolerance. It's about preventing crimes against humanity.
- phendrenad2 3mo agoYou're right, this isn't about X, it's about Y.
- vrganj 3mo agoPeople can just use language. Don't let clankers take it from us.
- anthonyrstevens 3mo agoThe conclusions do not follow from the premise. Show actual examples of what you are afraid of?
- storus 3mo ago[flagged]
- kamaitachi 3mo agoHi Fredrik I’m a long time Mullvad customer, likely paid Mullvad upward of 400€ in the past number of years, as well as recommended it to friends and family members. What you seem to be missing in your comment, is that some of that money I paid, found its way to support an organisation that has extreme racist views. I’ve reached out to support and requested a refund of my outstanding credit. I’ll be moving on.
- gray_-_wolf 3mo ago[flagged]
- sebra 3mo ago[flagged]
- iamnothere 3mo ago[flagged]
- jasonvorhe 3mo agoI'd be among the first customers. North Korean dough products look quite delicious. They don't even use GMOs.
- SpaceNoodled 3mo agoNorth Korean donuts would be all hole.
- jasonvorhe 3mo agoSure, there's no food production in NK. They all live off air.
- pesus 3mo agoYou don't think there's a difference between a founder and a random employee?
- sourcegrift 3mo ago[flagged]
- alexseman 3mo agoThanks Fredrik, will actually be switching to Mullvad.
- lbnzuni 3mo ago[flagged]
- everfrustrated 3mo agoIndeed I see this as a positive. There is a common meme that the CIA might well run VPN companies. It would seem less likely for Mullvad.
- anuramat 3mo ago> less likely how so?
- mrhottakes 3mo agoSo you're a political company, but you don't want people to examine the politics of the people running the company? That seems naive.
- nomel 3mo ago[flagged]
- devindotcom 3mo ago"It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission."
- panarky 3mo agoIt should be obvious that it is utterly incompatible with the values and mission of Mullvad for a Mullvad executive to give a large amount money from Mullvad customers to advance public policy with the primary and direct intent to restrict freedom of expression.
- csande17 3mo agoDo you have any links/context on how this party plans to restrict freedom of expression?
- 3mo ago
- pesus 3mo ago[flagged]
- eastbound 3mo ago[flagged]
- pesus 3mo agoWhat does this mean? Be specific.
- eastbound 3mo ago[flagged]
- pesus 3mo agoI have no idea what you're trying to say.
- sumeno 3mo agoHe's a racist that doesn't think races should mix
- gib444 3mo agoAnyone who criticises any aspect of immigration is a racist, got it
- peterfirefly 3mo agoNot all cultures are compatible. It's nothing to do with "races".
- paulryanrogers 3mo agoWhat is "promoting mixing"?
- newtonianrules 3mo ago[flagged]
- nradov 3mo agoIsn't that how all businesses operate? If customers don't like it then they can find an alternative vendor.
- newtonianrules 3mo agoYeah I just expected better of Mullvad as a long standing customer. They seemed pretty politically neutral which I prefer.
- fastball 3mo agoWhat evidence do you have that the company is not politically neutral?
- newtonianrules 3mo agoTheir co-founder (not just an employee) is bankrolling a party that’s leader has called for the expelling of all immigrants. This fact is not in dispute.
- everfrustrated 3mo agoYou're surprised the co-founder of a privacy company is advocating that a countries membership should be ... private?
- dnlzro 3mo agoYou're just playing with language. I can say: "I'm surprised the co-founder of a freedom of speech company is contributing to a political party that wants to force religious charter schools to close."
- dreambuffer 3mo agoWhy does it say your comment was made 2 days ago, when the thread has only been up for 6 hours?
- burkaman 3mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721560
- aftbit 3mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721551
- mellosouls 3mo agoIt's a HN thing, not down to the commenter. Sometimes threads are reactivated if the mods think a low profile discussion is worth a second chance or boost. The submission time doesn't always reflect the original submission. Sometimes it's due to a comment move or thread merge.
- antonvs 3mo agoPR companies have found that getting ahead of controversies is useful, so they invented time travel.
- dang 3mo agoSee https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48721551 and let us know if you have any questions. (aftbit already mentioned this link downthread but perhaps it's helpful to say this explicitly.) Edit: actually I should probably pin that to the top. Done now. Sorry for the confusion!
- BitWiseVibe 3mo agoThank you for everything you do Fredrik. Very happy to be a customer of a company that supports freedom and privacy for everyone regardless of views.
- gpm 3mo ago> that supports freedom ... for everyone Unless you happen to be of Somalian descent in Sweden. Then you should be ripped away from the only home you've ever known, indeed possibly the only country you've ever been in, and sent to a foreign country you have no citizenship in, where you have no home, don't understand the language, know no one, and be forced to try and survive.
- peterfirefly 3mo ago> don't understand the language Seriously? It's not like the Somalis have been in Sweden that long.
- Hikikomori 3mo agoTheir children might not speak their language.
- peterfirefly 3mo agoMost of those children wouldn't be able to communicate with their own parents, if that were the case. Somalis are usually not spread out among the natives. They tend to clump together in ethnic enclaves where it is very easy to learn Somali (and where life is unpleasant for the unfortunate child who doesn't learn it).
- Hikikomori 3mo agoAnd some parents do learn Swedish so their children might not know their parents native language. Or have you inspected every Somalian family in Sweden? It might not be that many, but doesn't make his point any less true.
- honr 3mo agoIf you still wonder why there are sudden attacks on Mullvad, I "heard" there are Chinese (in addition to the others; dual- / triple- vendoring is key) LLM-based tools to check for swarm origins and campaigns.
- kgwxd 3mo ago> This is what allows us to advance our common causes. Being in a tolerant and intellectually open environment is also liberating and promotes truth seeking. Nope, that is what will get you taken over by the assholes. Reasonable defense is necessary in reality. There ARE bad actors, they must be kept out.
- jasonvorhe 3mo agoEveryone has their own definition of a bad actor. The fact that you're implying to know how to spot them says a lot about your tolerance for differences in opinion.
- drngdds 3mo agoI think you're just bad at identifying assholes
- kgwxd 3mo agoYou would have been so much better off just ending on the, already obvious BS, part about how his views aren't the companies. Instead, you went on to downplay the obvious problem. Mullvad was one of the last products I felt I could honestly recommend, and feel good about. Never falling for this garbage again. The world is complete shit right now.
- kfreds 3mo agoI'm sorry to hear that. For what it's worth I think there's nuance in his decision that most people don't see. Of course that doesn't mean I think it was the right decision to make. Here's something worth considering: why would someone whose ideal is open borders, who has been an animal rights activist, and someone who has led Mullvad for 17 years (with the track record it has), choose to donate to this party? If you like what Daniel and I have done together over the past 17 years, and now vehemently oppose his choice to make this donation, doesn't that make you just a little bit curious? It made me curious. It didn't change my ultimate stance, but it did temper my emotions about it.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- Pr0ject217 3mo agoThanks for supporting civil liberties.
- miyoji 3mo ago> It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission. No, in fact, the opposite of this is obvious.
- fastball 3mo agoHow do you figure?
- iAMkenough 3mo agoMoney that leaves your wallet and goes to Mullvad ends up funding politicians that believe non-whites shouldn’t have speech at all, as a personal choice by a top executive of the company. The company’s values aren’t reflected accurately if you believe your money is funding free speech regardless of race.
- fastball 3mo agoIt's a company: the deal is that they help enable free speech of their customers, not everyone on earth or everyone in Sweden or anywhere else. A great litmus test for the (somewhat outrageous) claims in this thread: does Mullvad refuse to provide service to non-white immigrants in Sweden? If yes, then you have a point. If no, I do not think Mullvad is the entity that is confused in this situation.
- miyoji 3mo agoDo you typically start companies that are opposed to your values, or do you start companies that align with your values? If you are the co-CEO of a company, will you push it to align more with your values, or less? This isn't a company founded 300 years ago by a long-dead evil man in a business vertical completely unrelated to how it started, it's a baby company with the evil founder still actively involved at the highest level of management. Maybe you can regale me with epic stories about the companies you've worked at where the founder had no ability to influence the company and its values, but that's not been my experience at all, in any human organization anywhere.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- epistasis 3mo agoI'm pretty familiar with these right-wingers that claim to fight for "freedom of speech" they all end up fighting for "freedom of speech for the things I want to say, jail for those who oppose me." The 2024-2025 swing was pretty extreme on that front. Political extremists are all the same, left or right, nobody should be surprised because they seek power above all else. I had been pretty concerned about the level of advertising for Mullvad I've seen recently, that's usually a really bad sign for a VPN type company. But seeing this comment, in combination with the news article linked here, tells me everything I need to know for trust. VPNs are all about trust. Mullvad has completely broken all trust with me.
- JuniperMesos 3mo agoDo you think any of the people publicly claiming that they will no longer do business with Mullvad because Daniel Berntsson donates to an anti-immigration political party, wouldn't make donating to that party an illegal, jail-able legal offense if they had the political power to do so?
- alextingle 3mo agoRacial discrimination is illegal where I live, and I believe that's a good thing. Political parties that advocate racism are simply antithetical to the whole concept of liberal democracy.
- ninjin 3mo agoWhy would we? There are plenty of us that believe in free speech, but would rather not see our money go towards bankrolling further destroying public discourse like you see Allard doing. It is perfectly possible to forward your opinions without setting the public square on fire. The kind of rhetoric that you profess here is dangerous and I see it all too often in the US. If no side attempts to hold the high ground, all we will have is a race towards the bottom and at some point arguing that it is high time to send the other side off to the camps and that is not a future I want to see.
- 9935c101ab17a66 3mo agoAny? As in one of them? Maybe. I think it’s incredibly unlikely though, and I think you’re making a huge and questionable leap. Boycotting a business isn’t normally a precursor to fascist dictatorship.
- tomekw 3mo ago[flagged]
- crossroadsguy 3mo agoPeople in this thread are slowly (or maybe not so slowly) realising "… this was also a business after all… just with a different "model"… huh". There's caring, there's caring PR, and then there's caring theatre.
- WhitneyLand 3mo agoFredrik, while acknowledging everything you said, the fact remains some of my money can end up empowering politics I find repugnant. If it were a small amount of money, it wouldn’t be an issue. If the politics at stake were less important, it wouldn’t be an issue. They’re not going to stop at immigration, look at other places in the world to see the future risk. Sorry, I was a paying and satisfied customer, and now I’m out.
- kfreds 3mo agoI'm sorry to hear that. I'm not defending his choice, but consider reading Daniel's rationale in the Flamman article. There's also his blog [1], which explains some of his views. I know he doesn't share all of Örebropartiets views, but I should let him provide that nuance. As I said in another comment, speaking for myself, I don’t like that he made this donation and I know this view is shared by many of my colleagues. [1]: https://dberntsson.info https://dberntsson.info
- actionfromafar 3mo ago[flagged]
- subarctic 3mo agoOh no how dare they /s
- McDyver 3mo ago> As I said in another comment, speaking for myself, I don’t like that he made this donation and I know this view is shared by many of my colleagues. Maybe there's a case to distance Mullvad from him, then. Not taking a stand is also a political choice.
- kfreds 3mo agoConsider GWB's "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." For and against are not always the only options. Sometimes there are nuances, or other concerns. Daniel made this decision as a private individual. Some of his colleagues (including me) dislike it as private individuals. I recognize that the amount as well as his position of power within the company (co-founder, co-owner, co-CEO) make people who disapprove more uncomfortable than if it had been a much lower amount from a regular employee. However, as others have argued, what would happen if Mullvad started weighing in on politics unrelated to its mission? Better to see Mullvad almost like a force of nature: Mullvad believes privacy is a universal right. You might disagree but at least it's consistent, and I'd argue that's one path to trustworthiness - you know how we're likely to treat you as a customer. (equally, regardless of your political affiliation) Obviously everyone is free to make their own choice on whether they like this stance or not.
- tamimio 3mo agoIt’s time to create nullvad, Fredrik.
- akimbostrawman 3mo ago[flagged]
- ryan_n 3mo ago> It should be obvious that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission Why should this be obvious? I don't think that's obvious at all. The owner of a company could very easily decide to one day use their company to further their political beliefs/ideologies (see: Twitter, FaceBook, etc..). Why would Mullvad be any different?
- kfreds 3mo agoI'm sorry to hear you'll be leaving us. To answer your question, we started building this organization in the summer of 2008 for idealistic reasons, and we are still idealists who think privacy is fundamental to a civilized society. The best strategy for achieving societal impact through entrepreneurship is consistent, long-term, and value-based ownership. For us, this disqualifies taking outside investment, either through venture capital or going public. Mullvad has instead been growing organically without outside investments. Our principles have withstood the test of time. Our conviction has remained unchanged through multiple serious offers of acquisition and outside investment. Words are cheap of course, but consistent action over the course of almost two decades is not. Mullvad is about privacy. Neither Daniel nor I have used Mullvad's brand to promote our personal opinions.
- nout 3mo agoIt's stupid when one of the CEOs of a private VPN company decides to fund political actors. That's just PR issue bound to happen. Funding bad actors bites you every single time - so maybe have a chat about if you have seen this coming - and if not why were you blind to this? On top of this don't change your service based on this outrage. If you change it, then you will prove that Mullvad is malleable by political pressure. You can guess what happens next...
- wanderer2323 3mo agoThank you for supporting the civil liberties and individual freedom of expression!
- kfreds 3mo agoThank you. :)
- vitally3643 3mo agoThat's great and all but can I have a refund for the portion of my mullvad subscription that went to supporting organizations who think that people like me don't deserve to live?
- dijit 3mo agoCan you point to the charter where the Örebro party ever said that you don't deserve to live? The embellishments of what people actually believe is extremely exhausting. FWIW, I'm an immigrant in Sweden and if they gained power I would be affected, but we talk about people with differing views to us as if they're actively violent in order to shut down conversation. This catasphrophising language will eventually not help your cause, because ordinary people start to feel numb to it and the hard-right will not be defeated by it.
- vitally3643 3mo agoTalking about how entire races of people deserve to be deported is active violence
- dijit 3mo agoSo “don’t deserve to live” is down to “violence”. Q: When people seek asylum, is the expectation that they should return when its safe? Or is taking in 10% of population mean that you have a permanent minority population that is part of a permanent underclass similar to how black people have it in the US? Genuinely asking.
- BoggleOhYeah 3mo agoDoes that line of thinking hold when this party has also said they also want to deport people born in Sweden? >"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish."
- 3mo ago
- krig 3mo ago[flagged]
- dang 3mo agoYou can't post like this here, no matter how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. You may not owe founders whose cofounders you feel are behaving badly better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- microgpt 3mo agoFredrik, can we expect you to start a new company with the same values without the bullshit?
- dom96 3mo agoAs a customer I can no longer support you. But as someone that has been in a similar situation to you, I understand it's tough to end up building something big with someone who's politics you do not agree with. I would seriously urge you to consider building something new that rejects this kind of politics explicitly.
- kfreds 3mo agoI'm sorry to hear that. Oh, I definitely agree with some of his political opinions, the obvious ones being around free speech, free press, and privacy. There are important issues where we don't agree. His values around empathy stretch to most sentient beings, and he believes I commit torture when I eat fish for lunch. And he's still willing to associate with me.
- timmytokyo 3mo ago>he's still willing to associate with me Presumably because you are not an immigrant (or the child of an immigrant).
- kfreds 3mo agoYou presume wrong. He has nothing against immigrants as a group. He sees open borders as the ideal, and have since he was a teenager. As far as I can tell the only reason he doesn't actively advocate for it at the moment is because of mismanagement of the government. Something like that. I don't want to say more because I don't want to misrepresent his views.
- lightbritefight 3mo agoThe above isn't believable. He gave $500,000 to a political org that has explicitly called immigrants "parasites," dehumanizing phrasing that mirrors Nazi speech and has been used to justify mass murder. He is in fact the main financial patron of this racist political party. Saying he supports open borders at the same time is just a flat non sequitur.
- iAMkenough 3mo agoYou may try to unsuccessfully hold this distinction, but at the end of the day money that I give to your company ends up being used by far-right politicians to oppose Mullvad's supposed mission.
- insane_dreamer 3mo agoWhat you said makes sense, but what the founders do matters. I'll never buy a Tesla car because of Elon's actions. I cancelled my Amazon Prime subscription because of Bezos' actions. There are plenty of people for whom it doesn't matter, but for some it does.
- kfreds 3mo agoIndeed. It matters to me. In fact, most of my political opinions have atrophied, or rather I have self-censored. Daniel believes that is not the right trade-off to make in this case. I understand his point of view, and disagree.
- insane_dreamer 3mo agoAnd to be sure, I agree Daniel is entitled to his opinions and the right to do with his money as he pleases. Of course there may be business consequences for doing so in terms of how the user base reacts. I think the bigger problem -- and I don't know the rules for political donations in Sweden -- is that any individual is able to pour millions into a political party of any persuasion. In the US this situation is made much worse since a Supreme Court ruling known as Citizens United which opened the floodgates for the ultra-wealthy to bankroll politicians. But that's another discussion altogether.
- peterfirefly 3mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_finance_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_finance_in_Sweden > is that any individual is able to pour millions into a political party of any persuasion. It's an even bigger problem that political parties are heavily subsidized by the state, which favours the establishment. This goes beyond purely monetary subsidies. Some people employed by the state have an essentially political function or have a large political influence over the population and they have been hired (and incentivized) by the established parties over decades.
- gustavus 3mo agoFor whatever it's worth I use Mullvad because it lets me pay in Bitcoin is super easy to re-up and is super anonymous. I don't really give a darn who you voted for or what your founder did. I like the product I'll keep using it.
- iAMkenough 3mo agoDo you happen to drive a Tesla?
- throw-the-towel 3mo agoEven if they do, it's none of your business.
- iAMkenough 3mo agoYour opinion has been duly noted thank you for sharing.
- simio 3mo agoThis response completely fails to address what is the issue for me and many others, and frankly I find it quite offensive. The Örebro Party uses racist and transphobic rhetoric and dog whistles, and openly advocates for ethnic cleansing. Their political actions have already hurt people I care about. Berntsson's donation is explicitly meant to support the party in bringing their politics to the national level. This would bring material harm to me, to family and friends, and to many others. And Berntsson's ability to fund ÖP in doing that harm is directly linked to the financial success of Mullvad. Whether you or Mullvad agrees or disagrees with Berntsson or ÖP is irrelevant. Thanks to Berntsson, more money to Mullvad means more harm to us. So why on Earth would I pay you anything?! On the contrary, it would quite obviously be in our best interests if Mullvad fails as a company, if possible to such an extent that Berntsson is ruined financially and can no longer fund "nationalist socialist" parties such as ÖP. It just doesn't matter whether Mullvad believes in free speech or not, not when Berntsson is making it so that giving you money causes us to be persecuted and harmed. And to be perfectly honest, I find your framing of this as "philosophical" to be profoundly appalling, and it tells me that you do not at all understand what is actually going on.
- kfreds 3mo agoI'm sorry to hear that. Since writing that response I've added plenty more to this thread.
- khriss 3mo agoFredrik, thank you for a clear and honest statement of Mullvad's position rather than corporate word salad. > Mullvad protects the right for people to express things we don't agree with. We protect the right of everyone to access views we don't agree with. > That said, if you no longer want to be a Mullvad customer for philosophical reasons, we think it's important to honor that Combining the above statements, would you have any recommendations on VPN providers for people who choose to leave Mullvad? As you will agree, anonymity and privacy are under attack the world over and even people who leave Mullvad deserve have access to tools enabling the same. The VPN space is a cesspool of shady operators who seem to spend more on marketing than technology and it's really hard even for the HN audience to know which providers are legit. This is where your background and experience are really valuable, so any recommendations would be very welcome. Yes, I am aware that the ask here is to endorse a competitor, however if someone has made up their mind to leave Mullvad, they are going to do so anyway. Enabling them to do so while retaining their anonymity and privacy will go a long way in advancing the political aims Mullvad stands for.
- kfreds 3mo agoHi! No worries. I haven't spoken with Nick Pestell of IVPN in ages, but he's always struck me as genuine and empathetic. We met the first time at RightsCon in 2018 I believe. TunnelBear and ExpressVPN were also there. We all wrote this thing together: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2018/10/17/signals-trustworthy-vpns https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2018/10/17/signals-trustworthy-v... Since those conversations I've always thought that IVPN is closest aligned with Mullvad's values. Again, I haven't spoken with Nick in ages, so I don't know what IVPN is doing now.
- khriss 3mo agoThank you! I wasn't even aware that IVPN existed.
- jwildeboer 3mo agoFTR. The reports I have seen have always made it clear that Mullvad has two owners/founders/CEOs. And while the donations may be private, they obviously come from money earned as part of being one of the founder/owner/CEO of Mullvad and thus raises questions on corporate responsibility.
- RIMR 3mo ago>Being in a tolerant and intellectually open environment is also liberating and promotes truth seeking I agree 100%, which is why the dehumanizing intolerance of the Mullvad CEO completely disqualifies your organization from being on the same side as that statement.
- JuniperMesos 3mo agoI'm a long-time Mullvad customer, and I respect what the company has been doing and the pro-privacy political stance it openly and publicly stands for. I agree that Daniel's private donation to a political party is not part of Mullvad's values or mission, and shouldn't be. But what I do care about, strongly, is that Mullvad as a company doesn't bow to pressure from pro-immigration activists who are attempting to impose social and financial consequences on people and institutions like Mullvad that tolerate anti-immigration political speech. Which is of course why people are publicizing this donation and publicly stating that they will no longer do business with Mullvad because of it. I want to state publicly that what would make me no longer do business with Mullvad is if Mullvad, organizationally, attempted to pressure Daniel Berntsson into not donating to anti-immigration political parties because it induces pro-immigration activists to attempt to boycott the company. I don't want to live in a world where people trying to run a pro-privacy VPN feel pressure to police anti-immigration speech unrelated to the core mission among people in their organization, and that's the principle that my customer dollars are riding on.
- kfreds 3mo ago> I'm a long-time Mullvad customer, and I respect what the company has been doing and the pro-privacy political stance it openly and publicly stands for. Thank you.
- gpm 3mo agoThe speech people are objecting to isn't anti-immgiration. It is pro crimes against humanity against people who previously immigrated, and their descendants. A stance that Sweden should reduce the amount of immigration they accept would be utterly unremarkable and never result in outrage like this.
- JuniperMesos 3mo ago> A stance that Sweden should reduce the amount of immigration they accept would be utterly unremarkable and never result in outrage like this. I don't believe this claim, because immigration is a live political issue in my country (the United States) just as it is in Sweden; and people absolutely claim that reducing the amount of immigration the US accepts is immoral and genocidal. Seriously, claims of this nature are a huge amount of contemporary American politics and this is obvious to anyone who has seen the name "Donald Trump" in a news publication talking about the US in the past decade. Also I've read Bryan Caplan's argument that not having open borders is morally equivalent to Jim Crow, and read plenty of other people who think similarly to him.
- applfanboysbgon 3mo ago> We also live these values by being tolerant in our daily work. > The more people do this, the better a place the world will be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance The more people tolerate the far right, the worse the world will be because they will take your good faith and use it to extinguish tolerance for anyone but themselves. This is literally textbook. I don't know how you can invoke the word tolerance without understanding this.
- gib444 3mo agoA lot of the far right is using anger about too much tolerance of intolerant religions brought into a country via immigration Oh what a complex web this business of tolerance is...
- alextingle 3mo agoMuslim fascists and Western fascists are on the same side here. They both want the same thing... a world defined by hatred of the other. There is zero contradiction on opposing both of them.
- fleroviumna 3mo ago[dead]
- zombot 3mo ago> We fight for freedom of speech, freedom of information and the right to privacy. OK, but the far right, like all totalitarians, has an agenda that is thoroughly opposed to this. That leads to the tolerance paradox: You must be intolerant to agendas that would put an end to tolerance.
- mlrtime 3mo agoWell said, You have a new paying customer from me and I will advocate for others to use Mullvad. Going to sign up now through the tailscale partnership.
- nonplus 3mo agoObviously there are not easy solutions here. Has Mullvad considered offering to buy out Daniel's shares? The mission statement that Mullvad has promised it's users does (did) come with a duty of care. In my eyes that mission statement is compromised, it either dies here and Mullvad is just another product financing political parties by proxy, or something is done. I hope you find a way to protect Mullvad from actions that are counter to your mission statements.
- cookiengineer 3mo agoAs a counter argument to your marketing fluff comment: Name a single instance of right wing parties that did not violate all human rights the second they got in power. Name one, I dare you. And no, historically such a fairytale world does not exist that you're trying to paint here. All right wing parties feed off aggression, painting humans as enemies, and populistic lies. It's always been this way, always will be this way. Not a Mullvard customer anymore, and going to never recommend you again for any person that asks me in the future. Go to history class if you still can't see the truth in my comment. I'm German, and that's our fucked up history, and our messed up ancestry of people "that just followed orders" that I have zero tolerance for. Your fairytale comment reads like the "Hitler just wants peace" protests during WW2. There is always a democratic and peaceful option, and right wing parties never choose that option. It's unsystematic to how they fundamentally work.
- eieiyo 3mo agoOf course sir, just like the chancellor of Germany's time on the board of Blackrock doesn't have anything to do with his full commitment to doing what's best for the German people as chancellor. I think it would be crazy to suggest otherwise. Politics and the company you own somehow having to do with each other and influencing each other? Preposterous. Wouldn't happen!
- pgug 3mo agoI am really frustrated about that donation. I am an LGBT person, and I fear that a service I have paid for for many years will found someone who wants all my human rights gone. That I am supporting someone who just wants me to stop existing. I am not sure what VPN provider I could use that is even half as trustworthy as mullvad and I am not sure what to do.
- FlyingCapybara 3mo agoWhatever what you say and so, it doesn't change the fact a part of my money is going to end up in an absolutely disgusting political party and other potentially terrible stuff. After so many years, I'm done with Mullvad.