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Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deat
by lwansbrough 3mo ago
Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths.
By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
- PaulKeeble 3mo agoI completely agree. Historically AC has not been necessary for the one to two days a year it was needed, but that world is gone now and the situation has changed and the widespread adoption of AC is now necessary. Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but it has to start because climate change is only going to get worse and worse.
- jatora 3mo agoSo you are saying temperature has risen enough to warrant an AC now? Due to climate change? I thought climate change was on aggregate ~1C difference but my data is a decade old the last time i looked into it
- colechristensen 3mo agoThe average temperature across the entire globe averaged over a year does not mean that each day is subject to the exact average added to it. Global warming intensifies differences in weather patterns. Hotter hots, colder colds, more intense storms, etc.
- fc417fc802 3mo agoSeeing as it's so commonly misunderstood I wonder if "catastrophic climate variance" wouldn't have been a better term in hindsight.
- miki123211 3mo agoPeople don't know what variance is. Most people have an intuitive understanding of what an average is, but "distance from the average" is mystifying to them.
- colechristensen 3mo agoAnd if you're trying to sell the public on the numbers of what's concerning, those numbers should be able to communicate the changes they expect. "This number is small but it means BAD THINGS" isn't a very good message
- fc417fc802 3mo agoOk fine I hear you, in that case how about catastrophic climate chaos? It's even alliterative.
- ajmurmann 3mo agoI'm not sure a more complicated term would prevent people who don't want to understand the issue from finding new ways to not understand it.
- martinpw 3mo agoPretty easy to look this stuff up rather than depend on decade old memory. Temperature in Europe is rising much faster than the worldwide average. Here it says +2.3C by 2022 - that is significant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Europe
- adrianN 3mo agoThe relevant data is number of days per year with temperature above X degrees. That number has risen quite a bit over the last decades.
- ericd 3mo agoIs it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?
- miki123211 3mo agoYes! Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic. Renovating those buildings is an extremely difficult, expensive, and bureaucratic process. You generally need to preserve the period-appropriate look and materials. An AC unit sticking out of a wall won't pass muster. Even newer buildings are problematic. an acquaintance of mine lives in an upper-middle-class apartment complex that was finished two or three years ago, and their architect has some claim in the contract that prevents residents from installing AC units to "preserve the building's unique look." The US is build around privately-owned housing (and hence creature comforts) a lot more than we are, so AC is a lot easier to implement there.
- Levitz 3mo ago>Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic. It feels weird to have to mention this, but although there are a lot of historical buildings in Europe, it's not the norm. Population grows. There was a noteworthy war not that long ago. The vast majority of buildings are not that old.
- ericd 3mo agoThere was a good book recently that described Europe as an open air museum. I honestly don’t know why you all put up with that nonsense. Is your country for the living, or the dead?
- miki123211 3mo agoHistory nuts in Europe are like the gun nuts in the US (and the hunters / farmers in both). Their antics are often destructive to the rest of society, there aren't that many of them, but they're loud and influential. And just to be clear, there is a huge difference between a person who has a keen interest in history (nothing wrong with that), and one that wants to leave every single old building untouched, and if there's a danger to residents, move the residents.
- FacelessJim 3mo agoAmericans don’t get scolded enough for their abuse of AC. In terms of accounting for preventable waste of energy, US guzzles more electricity on cooling than most countries do on everything else.
- pfdietz 3mo ago"Abuse" -- what a BS term. It's used just as desired; how can that be "abuse"? Because we do what we want rather than what you want us to want?
- fartcoin67 3mo ago[dead]
- Klonoar 3mo agoYes, but we’re at least not dying of sweat. We do a lot of things wrong but AC isn’t one of them. (Unless you’re in the PNW where they never needed it before recently, and somehow continue to build units without it)
- boc 3mo agoAre you going to also scold Americans for using heat in the winter? Our continent has more extreme weather than Europe... we've adapted accordingly because we value human lives. Have you?
- anthk 3mo agoSpain's continental climate has both subzero Winters and scorching Summers.
- boc 3mo agoAnd they had 101 people die of heat-related issues last month. [1] 3,832 Spaniards died in 2025 alone from heat. In 2022, 4,789 died, the all-time high. The entire United States had 2,325 heat-related deaths in 2023, which is the all-time high. Do the math (US pop 340M vs Spain 49M) and it gets really ugly. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/spain-records-highest-number-may-heat-related-deaths-2026-06-03/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/spain-records-h...
- anthk 3mo agoSome buildings in Southern Europe have thick as hell walls which isolate from both heat and cold (the North can be really chilly near the Atlantic, and freezing away from the Mediterranean).
- coryrc 3mo agoThat's a misconception. They are poor insulators, but they moderate temperature well. If the temperature outside is cold but sunny, the walls absorb heat from the sun during the day and retain it during the night. However, when you require heat input (cloudy days, average temperature less than desired interior temperature), the stone conducts it very well to the outside and you need much more power input than even crappy US stick-built houses with R-15 insulation. It's just that Southern Europe's climate is usually so mild it doesn't seem like it's more comfortable, but this situation demonstrates its inferiority well.
- gonzo41 3mo agoI think there's a bit of a definitional skew happening here. The data isn't that good around this stuff. Heat as the primary factor, vs heat related deaths is significant. Heat is a system stressor. There's plenty of people having heart attacks and dying from weight related issues that probably got pushed over the edge by a hot day in Nevada that are missed in official stats.
- Ferret7446 3mo agoI can't imagine this is significant unless there is a demonstrated reporting bias between the US and Europe. Otherwise I'd assume it's a wash
- Filligree 3mo agoThere is. In Texas, if a field worker has a heart attack on a hot day it’ll be reported as a heart attack. In France, the same exact situation would be reported as a heat casualty leading to heart attack.
- IneffablePigeon 3mo agoThere was a good More Or Less (uk radio programme) episode about this last week. Essentially, the European statistics on this tend to be based on excess mortality during hot periods, while US stats currently are much more about what words are used on death certificates. Very different measures and hard to compare.
- verteu 3mo agoYou can compare modeled heat deaths across different countries, Western Europe is still significantly higher. Eg Figure 3C in https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7618246/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7618246/ It doesn't affect life expectancy much, because most deaths are among the elderly (70% over 80 IIRC).
- ajmurmann 3mo agoUS numbers in the popular twitter stat are officially recoded heat deaths whereas EU numbers are all excess deaths. Supposedly if you look at excess deaths the numbers for both places look the same. IMO even that's not a proper comparison though because you cannot compare Alaska to Texas, or Rome to Helsinki and thus throwing all of these in together for discussing heat deaths us just pure nonsense and rage bait.
- eisa01 3mo agoAgree Especially as air conditioning are heat pumps. Would have helped solve the large dependency on natural gas heating for free as a byproduct!
- basisword 3mo agoIn the UK my understanding is there are large subsidies for installing heat pumps in new builds - but you lose the subsidy if you include the cooling part. NB: a friend in construction explained this to me so I could be wrong but it would explain why even pretty fancy new apartments with heat pumps have no cooling.
- jdkoeck 3mo agoSame in France. The trick is to wait for a control visit, and then turn on the cooling.
- roryirvine 3mo agoFor new builds the only subsidy is zero VAT, which now applies equally to all heat pump types, so this should hopefully change soon. Existing properties are eligible for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme which also now covers air to air (ie. reversible) systems. There's still a bit of "what? no radiators?!" cultural resistance to overcome, but I'd expect this to fall away quickly as the climate continues to warm.
- g-b-r 3mo agoHad the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now. Oh but what's the problem, just add more air conditioning! :facepalm:
- cm2012 3mo agoNo, its almost negligible
- g-b-r 3mo agoWhat do you consider almost negligible?
- stronglikedan 3mo ago> Had the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now. Sure we would, since AC has nothing to do with it.
- lazide 3mo agoI think they’re arguing we’d be doing something about global warming instead of rage baiting each other from the comfort of our cool houses on social media while ignoring it, like we’re doing. Well, not really ignoring it, more like making it worse while setting giant piles of bills on fire.
- Noaidi 3mo agoIf we were more exposed to the hot weather with no way to escape it maybe we would actually do something about climate change. By creating and artificial climate in all or our homes we are so disconnected from the world that we think technology will fix it. Just wait fro the wildfires to blow up this week in the western US. AC will not help.
- g-b-r 3mo agoI don't know, for example... https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2024/08/28/air-conditioning-poses-a-climate-conundrum https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2024/08/28/air-conditionin... But climate change is bullshit, right?
- Aeolun 3mo agoI think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned homes.
- TulliusCicero 3mo agoA basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.
- Aeolun 3mo agoNot anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.
- HeyImAlex 3mo agoThey're talking about window units, not heat pump systems or central air. It's a complete AC that sits in your window. It can't cool a very large space (even in apartments people may have more than one), but it's cheap and easy to install (and equally easy to remove). It might be unsightly on a house, but a lot of that is probably just cultural norms. They're very common in NYC, where a lot of housing was built before central air became the default.
- asdff 3mo agoI think you are thinking of mini splits, and not what americans would call a window unit. I got my window unit for $100 off craigslist and put it in myself without needing any tools.
- Aeolun 3mo ago
- mylifeandtimes 3mo agoAir conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.
- lazide 3mo agoWeirdest argument to keep letting 100k grandmas die from heat every summer I’ve ever heard.
- bad_haircut72 3mo agoThey're not saying dont do it, just that its not really a total solution
- zeusdclxvi 3mo agoThey are saying not to do it though and their arguments are awful
- Noaidi 3mo ago100k grandmas die from heat every summer because of our ignorance of climate change and a propaganda machine that denies that it is real.
- Larrikin 3mo agoIs this an argument to do nothing and let people die because there exist awful people in the world that want to profit from climate change? You can do walk and chew bubble gum in this fight.
- yieldcrv 3mo ago[flagged]
- xoa 3mo ago
- 1970-01-01 3mo ago[flagged]
- antonvs 3mo ago> Arrogance isn't going to hold against the sun. You mean against human-induced global warming.
- 1970-01-01 3mo ago[flagged]
- jackyinger 3mo agoSure the sun is a proximal cause… But are you really going to tell me that you me that tho evidence that temperatures are getting warmer is bunk? For starters check out the top diagram here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change# Would you argue against the physics of greenhouse gases? https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-pinpoint-the-quantum-origin-of-the-greenhouse-effect-20240807/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-pinpoint-the-quant... Are you too young to have noticed climate changes over time in your life? Edit: And the accumulation of greenhouse gases in our atmosphere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_atmosphere_of_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_atmosphe...
- _ihaque 3mo agoThis is an uncharitable take on the original comment which literally said: > the fact this is how hot it will be from now on That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that, in fact, the climate has changed.
- greenavocado 3mo ago[flagged]
- Grimblewald 3mo agoAicon is reasonable for areas where it's required, but "solving" things in areas where for millenia it wasnt required simply removes the pressure to act. This would be the opposite of what's required right now, which is decisive and heavy action on something we've been inactive on for way too long.
- nradov 3mo agoNothing that European countries can do will remove the need for more air conditioning.
- skybrian 3mo agoLetting people suffer to get political advantage isn't right, even if it's for a good cause.
- antonvs 3mo agoWe don’t need to make that choice, since collectively people inflict these things on themselves anyway. It’ll be interesting to see whether it leads to any sensible action. The cynical narrator in me says “it won’t.”
- alexhans 3mo agoLiving in London and Dublin, what I've observed is that we get the following contradictory statements: - "We don't need AC, It's only hot a few times during the year." - "Oh what a terrible heat, global warming is getting worse every year." Pair to that the fact that in many places windows don't open all the way due to bureocratic regulations and many interior designs are very questionable in terms of air flow and you get some unpleasant scenarios.
- Gigachad 3mo agoFor the wind out ones with the chain at the bottom, you can open up the box and remove the limiter that stops it opening all the way. They make the same opener for ground level and highrises with just a limiter keeping it mostly closed when installed high up.
- thayne 3mo agoIt seems like a bidirectional heat pump would be a good solution, since the same device can be used to heat the building when it's cold. And a lot of europe (including the mentioned UK and Greece) don't often get cold enough that a heat pump is inefficient.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- msh 3mo agoThe uk gets cold enough that a air to water heatpump is a better heating solution.
- fancyfredbot 3mo agoAir to water heat pumps are typically less efficient than air to air. Both will work in cold UK temperatures. However the water is often heated to a higher temperature which can reduce efficiency.
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- dylanz 3mo agoI live in Las Vegas and one year at the start of summer my AC went out. It took a week to order the part needed and make the fix. I lived out of casinos for that week (using HotelTonight to get a different place each night) and it was pretty fun. I gained 10lbs. That said, AC's are a necessity out here.
- barbazoo 3mo agoI'd probably invest in a secondary AC and a generator/battery to power it. That heat is brutal.
- ericd 3mo agoAbsolutely. In the northeast US we have triple redundancy on heat, because it’s potentially life-threatening to have the heat go out in a blizzard with subzero temps. I’d treat cooling redundancy as similarly important in Nevada, especially if not very mobile.
- oceanplexian 3mo agoI live a few hours outside Las Vegas and it's a lot more survivable than you would think given primitive technology and some knowledge. I have one of those portable evaporative coolers and they don't need much power (50-100W). I have one and measured ~110F input and 78F on the output side using nothing more than water and a fan, pretty remarkable. The trick is staying out of direct sunlight, and the body can cool itself well with the same mechanism. Sweating is extremely effective due to the low humidity.
- JadeNB 3mo agoI don't mean to pick on an irrelevant detail, but I genuinely don't know how to parse ">10x fewer deaths per capita." Does it mean "fewer than 1/10 as many deaths per capita," i.e., the ratio (heat related deaths in Nevada per capita)/(heat related deaths in Greece per capita) is less than 1/10?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- barbazoo 3mo agoWent to Germany during the recent heat wave and few of the public buildings and none of the private ones had AC. I found the whole endeavor much more very stressful because of the heat.
- manwithopinions 3mo agoThere are practical reasons why it isn’t widespread: 1. Energy is very expensive relative to the U.S. 2. Houses are old old and retrofitting air conditioning is very difficult 3. Houses are more than 1 story with many small rooms making portable and window mounted units unsuitable for a whole house All modern apartment buildings in London are built with air conditioning because a central air system and district power make it cost efficient. If you visit a hot place like Dubai or Bangkok, there are endless indoor malls with air conditioning that serve as a place to shop and a third space. Much of Europe doesn’t have that. The U.S. specifically is also very car-centric. You walk out of your air conditioned house into your air conditioned car and drive to your air conditioned mall. Much of Europe… isn’t. People walk, you can’t avoid the heat. Yes, certainly, there is a cultural resistance to air conditioning but adding air conditioning to homes isn’t going to stop people dying, homes are the least consequential part of heat in day to day life. Health advice in a heatwave is pretty much: don't go outside.
- zarzavat 3mo agoAs a European I agree, at least for Western Europe. It's not just the resistance but the price. There is tremendous price gouging in the AC industry. The real cost of a mini split system is the low hundreds of dollars but good luck finding one for that price in Europe. If it were regulated as a life critical technology and not as a luxury then it could be substantially cheaper.
- sokoloff 3mo agoLow thousands (or very high hundreds), perhaps. It’s still one fairly heavy outdoor unit, a moderately bulky indoor unit, a pump, two radiators, insulated pipes and control wires between, a circuit (wiring and an overcurrent device) and a disconnect, and a couple hours of labor from two tradespeople. That’s unlikely to be sustainable for an out of pocket of a low hundreds figure.
- zarzavat 3mo agoYou can buy a new Samsung mini split today for around $200 in asia, so with tax and shipping let's say $300 max. These things are mass-produced in the hundreds of millions of units. They're cheap and plentiful. Obviously the installation will be more expensive in Europe due to higher wages, but the units themselves should be dirt cheap.
- sph 3mo ago[flagged]
- reenorap 3mo ago[flagged]
- inigyou 3mo agoThere's no European law against AC. It's just expensive energy because it's got carbon taxes in it.
- ianm218 3mo agoThere are atleast some restrictions in localities I.e. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/12/portofino-air-con-crackdown-neighbours-italy https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/12/portof... or parts of Portugal. Also at a certain point if you ban or heavily restrict energy production to the point that no one can afford to run AC, it is a de facto ban.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- rwmj 3mo agoSure, HOAs are a nuisance in the US too.
- BoingBoomTschak 3mo agoAt least here in France, there are laws about energy efficiency (RT 2012) of new constructions practically forbidding AC. The loophole used by people with a brain is to install a "can be made reversible later" AC and to enable the cold function later on.
- rwmj 3mo agoSorry what? There's no reason that you can't install AC in your home/office in Europe, and many are doing so. It just hasn't been needed very much til recently.
- crote 3mo agoWell yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly achievable if you aren't stupid enough to build a city in the middle of a desert. Adapting all those buildings and streets will take time. Blindly putting AC everywhere and forcing everyone to drive from building to building in an ACed car isn't going to work, that kind of wasteful behavior is how we got into this situation in the first place. You need to redesign the heat management, and you need to start with things like mandating shades to prevent heat from entering buildings in the first place, and planting trees to avoid the heat island effect. AC will indeed be needed to deal with the final heat peak when outside night temperature is in excess of 30C, but it isn't the one-size-fits-all solution for every heat-related problem it might seem at first glance. If your AC needs to run for more than a few days per year, you've seriously screwed up.
- ianm218 3mo agoThis is completely ridiculous you just need to let people use AC properly and it will solve most of the problem with people dying. That doesn’t mean you need to go from place to place in AC or never be out of AC, but every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so that people could build new buildings with central AC that matches the current reality of its climate and demographics, rather than the climate and demographics of last millennium.
- crote 3mo ago> you just need to let people use AC properly (..) every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Yes, exactly: install AC where it truly helps and where it is truly needed. That's the point I was trying to make. Most of the rest is solved far more efficient by things like installing shades. In other words: don't go all-out on giant whole-home AC without first stopping the huge inflow of new heat. > if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction We're not, there's plenty of new construction over in Europe. The difference is that European buildings are built to last, so structurally there's no need to tear them down after a couple of decades. They are perfectly usable for another half-century after a minor renovation (including retrofitting AC!), so why destroy a charming historic district for absolutely no reason? That doesn't mean buildings are never torn down, of course. Right now a lot of post-WWII rental units are being replaced by new construction, as they are architecturally nothing special and renovating them to modern standards is simply way more expensive than replacing them entirely.
- inigyou 3mo agoI wonder what the global temperature rise would be right now if everyone in Europe had air conditioning since it was invented. Probably about half a degree hotter - so about two degrees total warming?
- tonfa 3mo agoDepends on the countries, France has had low carbon electricity for a very long time. That said F-gases would have been an issue, EU only recently banned them. Also most of Europe truly didn't need AC for a long time, growing up temperature above 30C was exceptional and I didn't even know the term tropical night (nighttime temperature above 20C). (Now that places are getting 10+ consecutive days above 30 with peaks close or above 40)
- jerlam 3mo agoThe US is generally much closer to the equator and warmer than Europe, hence air conditioning has been a requirement for much longer. https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-america/ https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-ameri... US states like Texas and Florida have no latitude equivalent in Europe. Los Angeles is farther south than all of Spain. At the same time, the UK, much of Germany, and Poland are farther north than any state in the US lower 48.
- ajmurmann 3mo agoAnd yet, even here in Oregon many of my coworkers only got window AC units during a heat wave a few years ago. But let's not break the narrative of all US vs all of Europe.
- croes 3mo agoDo you think there is a correlation between air conditioning and climate change denial?
- tmnvix 3mo agoI wouldn't be surprised. There are people who think it's a good idea to aircondition service station forecourts. I find the irony of the situation tragically absurd. There's a little of that in the comment you are responding to.
- wahnfrieden 3mo agoAre you echoing rants from Levels? He has a point but the death rate stats he posts comparing US to EU are bogus, incomparable measures. These places record heat related deaths differently which accounts for a large part of the difference. If you have better sources on this than he does, please share.
- ajmurmann 3mo agoI thought the Europe number was even just excess deaths and not recorded hear deaths at all whereas the US number was only officially recorded heat deaths.
- vixen99 3mo agoIn the UK and other European locations maybe this is related to some of the highest electricity costs in the world.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- seydor 3mo agoGreece is full of air conditioners Dont take pieter levels so seriously
- ed_balls 3mo ago>resistance to air conditioning Where is this meme coming from? I'm in Poland atm. Half of my neighbours have aircon. I dont just because I'm on the ground floor and the max temp is 25.5C Every new apartament building is build with holes ready for AC.
- fellowmartian 3mo agoThis meme is 100% true in western Europe.
- CalRobert 3mo agoThe most bizarre thing to me is that here in the Netherlands I can get a subsidy for a heat pump if it heats radiators, but not if it’s a multi split air to air heat pump. Because the latter also happens to be an air conditioner. It makes no sense. And then the same people who moralise air conditioning will burn tons of gas all winter for heat. Oh, and sensible design choices like eaves that block light from windows in summer are blocked by planners in many cases, bizarrely. The houses are brick ovens. Anyway I got AC installed here in Utrecht last week, really enjoying it
- apexalpha 3mo agoLook at the SPOT prices tonight and you'll understand the resistance to subsidizing airconditioning.
- CalRobert 3mo agoFair - good reason to use solar and batteries too. The cynical side of me almost wonders if the current approach is designed to reduce health care and pension costs by disincentivizing installation of a technology that saves elderly people.
- eecc 3mo agoWell, until recently Greece was struck by a savage “restructuring” and “reforms” package that left people without pensions or even chemotherapy when in need. I don’t think aircon is the priority for many of them
- rippeltippel 3mo agoUS citizens don’t get scolded enough for having elected (twice!) a president who denies human-induced global warming. AC would not be so much needed if we started reducing pollution and greenhouse gases.
- omnimus 3mo agoThere is no climate change in America. They have AC.
- traxler 3mo agoGenuine question: Do we have data that collaborates the theory that AC's prevent heat deaths and it's not due to confounding variables like the air in Nevada being dryer (dry heat is more bearable than wet heat) or the people in Nevada having year round higher temperatures and just being more acclimated? Has been on my "to research" list for a while. I agree with you that Europeans should stop being so stingy with AC (speaking as an European who still hasn't an AC, but not much longer), but I do wonder how much they actually do to prevent heat deaths. Because, how many heat deaths happen at home where people would potentially have AC? As far as I can tell (pre researching it) most, if not all, heat deaths I am aware of, happen outside. So the question would be: What is the effect of having a cool 22C home in regards to suffering heat deaths outside. Does it make it better, because your body can cool down? Does it maybe make it worse, because you step into a harsh difference when leaving it? (The last one is probably an easy no, since plenty of countries with high AC rate don't seem to have that issue). (Or just general damages from heat, not just heat deaths)
- omnimus 3mo agoExactly. The recent heat deaths I saw were people getting heart attack from jumping into cold river and others mostly from dehydration. All are from outside. You will not die from sleeping in 30c. What europe will have to get used to is slow down over the mid day when the heat is worst.
- jerlam 3mo agoYou're describing a siesta, which is from Southern Europe (among other places).
- barrenko 3mo agoNight temperatures over 25°c are extremely dangerous for health if continous, there's no getting around this, just get the damn ACs. In my country, we've always had "siestas", now we have ACs too.
- omnimus 3mo ago
- oatmeal1 3mo agoHeat related deaths predominantly kill the elderly. That may save lives overall because of their voting behavior leading to more deaths.
- Vasbarlog 3mo agoDo you have any source for that? Most people in Greece have ACs on their homes and virtually all public buildings and private businesses do as well. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/15/these-eu-countries-are-air-con-addicts-who-consumes-the-most-energy-to-cool-down https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/15/these-eu-count...
- nikanj 3mo ago”Hey so all your animals and crops are dying, but if you just install AC and stop going outdoors this whole thing can be ignored”
- sideway 3mo agoNowadays, it's usually not the lack of aircons that is a problem in greek households. Compared to local wages, energy prices have risen so much that lots of people cannot afford to keep their aircons on.
- asdff 3mo agoHow are public spaces in greece? Any large "free" sources of AC? Homeless in the US sometimes use this method to avoid severe heat exposure, hanging out in say a mall, public library, airport bag claim, staying underground in the subway system, or riding an air conditioned bus around.
- sideway 3mo agoIf I had to make an educated guess, I'd say Greece doesn't think about these types of public spaces as much as other countries do and the ones that do exist are probably a bit hostile towards the homeless.
- lmc 3mo agoWe don't like it either, but thanks for being a sanctimonious prick about it.
- lwansbrough 3mo agoJust buy an AC unit.
- Balinares 3mo agoBurning even more energy in response to the consequence of burning too much energy is seen by some as counterproductive. Do also note that AIUI in the US only deaths that were officially ruled from heat are counted as such by the CDC (source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/us/extreme-heat-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/us/extreme-heat-deaths.ht...), whereas the EU usually performs estimates based on overall deaths in excess of the expected baseline. So it's not apples to apples. I do agree that avoidable deaths should be avoided, though, so I'm with you on that.
- baxtr 3mo agoI think it’s a bit ignorant to lump Europe into one. Europe has roughly 750 mn people. When you’re in the southern parts many homes actually do have AC. We’re not stupid. Many new buildings have ACs. The northern parts just haven’t adapted to the increased temperatures at scale yet.
- toasty228 3mo agoThe irony is that if we never invented AC climate change wouldn't be as bad since half of the US, middle east and Asia would still be mostly unusable
- 8fingerlouie 3mo agoIt's not resistance to air conditioning as much as there isn't really a need for it for most of the year. Some of that has to do with engineering and age / history. Many older building in the southern part of Europe are built to cope with heat, at least "normal heat", and have done so very well for centuries. In places like Spain and Italy, society has adapted around the worst heat by means of Siestas. In Northern Europe, there are maybe (during "normal summers) 7-14 days in a year with heat waves, and long dark winters with freezing temperatures so large windows are not uncommon. Houses there are built to trap heat (and cold) with insulation, with current building codes mandating around 350mm (~13.5") of insulation. I have and old (1970s) house with 100mm insulation in the walls and 200mm insulation in the roof, and that house heats up in the sun. I also have a 2014 "modern" house built to regulations at the time, so around 300mm insulation, and despite a full day of sun, 30C, that house doesn't heat up nearly as much. Insulation by itself obviously doesn't protect you from prolonged high ambient temperatures, and I do have a portable AC for those situations. I think I've used it for 10 days in total over 2 years. Most days, simply opening windows and doors are enough to cool down the house. Having roof windows creates a "chimney effect" letting the hot air out on top, drawing relatively cooler air from closer to the ground. I also have an older summerhouse (1984), constructed with wood inside and outside, 75mm insulation in walls, 100mm in the roof, and that has a proper mini split aircon unit, Panasonic NZ25VKE, and in the 5 years I've had it installed, it has used 4.75 kWh on cooling. For comparison it uses around 1400 kWh yearly on heating. The wooden construction doesn't trap heat like bricks/concrete does, so even on very hot days simply opening a couple of windows/doors is generally enough to get the heat out, as well as putting the heat pump on "only fans" mode. And finally, a lot of newer buildings (2010 and onwards) does have climate control, both heating and cooling, but Europe is an old continent, and the buildings are old as well. It's not uncommon to see 200 year old buildings still in use today. 100 year old buildings are quite common. The church in the town I live in was built between 1250 and 1595. It has of course been updated with electricity and other modern commodities, but no air conditioning. The meter thick granite walls keeps it nice and cool. Ironically, the US' insistence on running on electricity powered by coal, oil and gas is contributing to global warming making the problem worse, emitting about 2-3x as much CO2 as Europe on electricity (https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes), making the need for AC greater. If anything, the Americans don't get scolded enough for their resistance to renewable energy sources.
- europoorean 3mo agoA quick google shows Greece has a life expectancy ~83 years, while Nevada's is at ~76. A 7 year difference. Heat death affects disproportionately those of old age. Everyone dying at 76 for other reasons is not going to die at 83 due to heat. While it is true that Europeans don't have air conditioning at home for the most part, it's also true that those old Europeans that die during heatwaves would already have been dead in the USA. I am 99% confident that 98% of the difference in heat deaths can be explained in this way at the 95% CL (!) Gun related deaths are simply a way for Americans to cope, I suppose! A bit of ragebait. I honestly hope you fix your health system.
- secretsatan 3mo agoExcuse me, it used to be livable here without aircon, you lot need to stop driving suv and reviving coal
- Imbryk 3mo agoNearly all of Nevada's heat deaths are recorded in Las Vegas, so are you saying Americans cannot built proper system in a single town? What a pathetic
- cuvert 3mo agoBut wouldn't be better if people would invest in better home insulation and ventilation? It would help in the winter also. I say this because since the early 90s, my father installed air conditioning in our home, but in 2020 the building was redone (the building is from 1986), and whenever I return home in the summer, I don't need air conditioning. Just lower the roller blinds and open the windows after the sun passed.