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I'm Danish and lars kragh andersen is a bit of a grey zone. He obviously goes over the line, he tried to put GPS trackers on the cars of ministers. He "stalks"
by Quothling 4mo ago
I'm Danish and lars kragh andersen is a bit of a grey zone. He obviously goes over the line, he tried to put GPS trackers on the cars of ministers. He "stalks" their families, and dox their children online. He gave an interview on how he'd ignore people carrying a kilo gram of weed when he was a cop because he doesn't agree with the "war on drugs".
On the flip-side, he's sort of right. I assume that putting a GPS tracker on the car of our minister of justice is illegal, but that same minister (Peter Hummelgaard) is one of the key forces behind anti-encryption here in Europe. Similarily the politicians he stalk and harras are pro Palintir getting access to all our data, so Lars Andersen is sort of giving the politicians a taste of what they want to give everyone.
He goes way too far though. Especially if he actually wants change, the way he "protests" is directly damaging his own cause, since nobody is going to sympathise with harrassing children.
I suspect next time he'll have his cameras running with backup powers though.
- protocolture 4mo ago[flagged]
- SjokoladeIsHare 4mo ago> Who cares about weed? Danes.
- protocolture 4mo agoWhy? Seems stupid. Just let people weed.
- LtWorf 4mo agoPretending to be a moral person to harass others is way more important than being a moral person. Jesus in the gospel has no kind words for such people but many "christian" societies haven't yet decided to follow that part.
- giancarlostoro 4mo agoPeople who dont pretend it has zero negative consequences as well. I understand the medicinal uses, most people arent even doing that, but we are overlooking so many things. I think someone should fund serious studies that look at all the benefits and negatives, sadly we dont live in a perfect world.
- wartywhoa23 4mo agoWe are overlooking even more things about perfectly legal alcohol.
- giancarlostoro 4mo agoI can count on one hand the number of times I drink alcohol every few years, and I agree. Let's fund detailed studies on the effects (good and bad) for everything. Whataboutism shouldn't be a reason to just let something that could have long-term negative consequences on the mind be blindly advertised as safe. My argument isn't about legality, moreso educating the public about consequences, we do this with cigarettes, and I assume eventually we have to extend vaping to have similar messaging as well. Legal marijuana in the states is insanely tweaked and modified in terms of THC in order to comply legally, even people I know who have smoked their whole lives feel uncomfortable touching the stuff because its just not even organic anymore. I think we're overlooking too many things.
- protocolture 4mo agoIts not a whataboutism, its the current line in the sand for comparison. If Alcohol does x and is legal with restrictions, then its only sensible for comparable products that do x to become legal with restrictions.
- necovek 4mo agoThere have been plenty of studies. People overdose on legal stimulants and drugs all the time (caffeine, alcohol, OTC drugs...). Nothing points to THC being at all worse than many other legal stimulants.
- N_Lens 4mo agoI expect he’ll be justified and vindicated in history if we end up in a global totalitarian prison planet scenario that seems to become more possible as the tech reaches that capability. “For the safety of the children” ofcourse.
- AnonymousPlanet 4mo agoWhat kind of history will a totalitarian prison planet write, I wonder.
- N_Lens 4mo ago1984 will be banned as being too inspirational, perhaps?
- KSteffensen 4mo ago1984 is not inspirational, it's cautionary. The main character has already lost from the first page of the book.
- chopin 4mo agoI tend to disagree. 1984 seems the playbook for the majority of politicians. For them, it's inspirational.
- pluralmonad 4mo agoMaybe we should begin asking, "whose children, specifically?"
- xiphias2 4mo agoI think the sim cards are more important: he wrote that Nest switched to local recording mode and the police took the evidence.
- dzhiurgis 4mo ago[flagged]
- zx8080 4mo agoSarcasm tag missing or is this serious?
- elric 4mo agoThey're probably not being sarcastic. Wrong, and ppssibly evil, but not sarcastic. There are some weirdly big Palantir fans on HN. No clue what drives them, but I'm guessing they're not keen students of history.
- dzhiurgis 4mo ago[flagged]
- wartywhoa23 4mo agoLike leather-boot-head-stomping justice?
- dzhiurgis 4mo agoDura lex sed lex
- wartywhoa23 4mo agoSure, especially when patricians themselves are exempt from their laws and it's only a ToS for plebs.
- Intermernet 4mo agoBenn Jordan did a video recently where he showed Flock cameras, which were hackable, pointing at children's playgrounds. Who is stalking the children?
- rexpop 4mo ago> he'd ignore people carrying a kilo gram of weed This is an unequivocally reasonable approach. The prohibition of cannabis is a grotesque charade.
- angry_octet 4mo agoA kilo of weed is clearly a dealer, and part of organised crime. The same people are deeply involved in forced sex work and people trafficking, extortion, illegal weapons, etc. There is a clear difference between end users and small time dealers and the distributors.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- megous 4mo agoSo prosecute them for those other things, no? Instead of helping criminals grow their business by banning non-harmful stuff and giving them monetary growth opprotunities.
- angry_octet 4mo agoCrime benefits from network effects even more than regular businesses, you have to attack them via every opportunity. However you are putting words in my mouth, in a typical American style of prosecution-->banning. It is quite possible to legalise and regulate marijuana. American halfway legalisation creates an industry which funds OC and can't be prosecuted. Canadian legalisation creates a revenue source for the provincial governments while providing vertical integration and control, and the volume of illegal weed has plummeted.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- gaiagraphia 4mo agoI personally would like the police to come down hard on unauthorised and unregulated chemists. Not a fan of dealers being tax exempt, either, given the negative externalities their services provide.
- pembrook 4mo agoI don’t think he goes too far at all. If politicians are attempting to undermine your children’s right to privacy forever, and yet these same politicians don’t like when this is being done to their own children…it shows either an astonishing level of hypocrisy and/or stupidity. Europe is filled with these types of authoritarian urbanites, who make decisions from an elitist “i know what’s best for you” attitude while eating 6 course dinners. This is the same class of European leaders who steered the regions entire energy/economic/social policy so bad that the whole European model of the last few decades is in slow collapse and fiscally unsustainable. Yet ironically, the most common phrase you’ll hear while eating these 6 course dinners is “sustainability.” These people are some of the worst hypocrites on pretty much every topic imaginable and need to be called out for it.
- Quothling 4mo agoThis is what I meant by the grey zone. I personally think it goes too far, but I agree with the point you make here. Where it becomes problematic is that the method does not get the point across to any audience which doesn't already agree with them. Compare this to Jesper Graugaard, who is know locally as the "Chromebook-dad". He's been campaigning against big tech in our schools for like a decade, and after 6 years we recently had a ruling forbidding our cities from using Google services without proper data ownership agreements. He's obviously not the only party behind this, but he's a massive force in the agenda against non-EU tech in our schools. He does it through reform and political campaigning. Jesper has wide public support, Lars is not viewed favourable. This story hasn't even hit our news, I've only heard about it here on HN.
- pembrook 4mo agoI think you and I disagree. I don’t think Jesper is focused on the right issues. Big tech (private companies who largely just care about profits) and foreign governments (the Americans for example), are way lower on my “things Europe should be worried” about list. They’re there of course, but lower. Private companies don’t have the ability to ruin your life in the same way your own government does. They just want your money. And the US government is truly a disinterested party. 99% of Americans couldn’t place Denmark on a map (I’m not kidding). When push comes to shove, they fundamentally do not care what happens here. The real threat is our own governments, who we have given the legal authority to enact all the negative outcomes that will come from totalitarian erosions of privacy and over regulation of individuals. Building up this scary “foreign boogieman” and stoking this moral panic is what is enabling the authoritarian action. Pointing fingers at Big Tech and the US is a giant distraction tactic so you don’t look at the terrible things our own domestic politicians have done and the fact they have zero plans to do the hard things needed to get us out of this mess. It's just champagne and smiling over dinner, while the old eat the young, the government eats the private sector, and endless legislation eats away your opportunity to do anything more exciting than build powerpoints at a braindead consulting firm.
- jiddert8 4mo ago[dead]
- monegator 4mo ago> He goes way too far though that's what activist have to do to shake people
- raverbashing 4mo ago[flagged]
- l23k4 4mo ago[flagged]
- ACCount37 4mo ago2 out of 3 for "bombed to shit". I wouldn't call that "working". I'm not sure if Iran's regime has the staying power, but Hamas sure doesn't seem to be in a good shape lately.
- l23k4 4mo ago> but Hamas sure doesn't seem to be in a good shape lately. And who do you see on track to displace Hamas? After years and years of conflict and being "bombed to shit", they're as entrenched as ever while their enemy declines much faster. Israel is getting to a point where it has no friends left in the world, where the average European youth thinks nuking Israel and turning into a glass parking lot would probably be a net positive. Jews are starting to be broadly despised again thanks to Israeli policy, something that would have been unimaginable just a few years ago. Hamas operatives lead shitty lives in the Gaza strip as they have for decades, but they certainly aren't losing control. Over the course of a few years, Hamas managed to turn wearing a star of David in big EU cities into a dangerous political statement. And we're supposed to believe that they're not winning?
- SukadarBukadar 4mo agoThere are two actors and you're mixing up who is responsible for which outcome. I explained in more detail in another comment
- dataflow 4mo agoI'm confused reading this. How in the world is GPS-tracking someone's car supposed to show hypocrisy with respect to encryption?
- egorfine 4mo agoBecause this someone wants to know location of everyone in the country while his own location should be of course private and protected.
- defrost 4mo agoHmmm, in context he was(?) tracking a public ministers car. I'm Australian and I'm all for peeling back and making transparent all the comings and goings of public officials (within reason) - they deserve a good return, a hefty return even, for dedicated public service .. and they deserve to know that there's a hammer waiting for any betrayal of public trust, shady financial dealings (while in office), etc. As a "known in advance covenant" that's not altogether unreasonable, raises the bar for would be Trumpesque grifters, and allows for privacy for those not seeking access to public offices, trust, and cookie jars.
- dataflow 4mo agoI still don't understand what that has to do with encryption. Are these two separate policy proposals, one for GPS tracking and one for encryption, that this person is supporting?
- bondarchuk 4mo agoThink about why do governments want to ban encryption? Because they want to know everything about you all the time. Collecting information on someone such as their location is of the same order.
- gpvos 4mo agoIt may be of the same order, but it is a different thing. No one, not even techies like here on HN, are going to see his actions as valid.
- Lerc 4mo ago>He goes way too far though. Especially if he actually wants change, the way he "protests" is directly damaging his own cause, since nobody is going to sympathise with harrassing children. I don't think this is a given. Just Stop Oil says that their tactics do make people hate them, but their research tells them that it still makes peoples opinions on the issues move in the direction that they want them to. Their position is that if they achieve what they want while gathering animosity towards their organisation, once achieved, they can disband.
- joe_mamba 4mo ago> but their research tells them Thier "research" might be full of yes men.
- prepend 4mo agoI suspect their research is as rigorous and valid as their philosophy.
- TremendousJudge 4mo agowhat do you think they should do instead of what they currently do?
- amiga386 4mo agoThey should find some other way to peacock in front of their fellow upper-class friends, because it annoys the fuck out of normal people that Tarquin and Cecily come from money and thus have the free time to throw soup on paintings or whatever publicity-seeking guff they try next. If they want to fix the climate crisis, they should engage with normal people and find effective ways for them to save money (e.g. like https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/ https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/ do) or pressure councils and such into providing better public transport (e.g. like https://bettertransport.org.uk/ https://bettertransport.org.uk/ do). People don't consume oil because they intrinsicly like consuming oil. People use private cars that consume oil because nobody else gives a shit (especially not councils) about their needs to get from A to B on time and doesn't offer suitable public transport. People don't buy into mad schemes that require £20,000 upfront and might return about £200 a year in savings, just for ideological reasons. They need cheaper things that pay off sooner, like portable solar panels they can put out in the garden when it's sunny. Probably the best thing they could do is tell all their other ecological activists to stop being NIMBYs and stop protesting against pylons, so we can get lovely clean renewable energy, generated by turbines in the North Sea, to all the places in Britain where it's needed, especially the south east of England.
- redeeman 4mo agobut all he does is things the politicians thinks are perfectly okay to do to the "plebs" they are supposed to represent. when they do it, its A-OKAY, but if he does even 1/10, its the worst catastrophy in the world.
- anfogoat 4mo agoThis is interesting and all but is ultimately just an aside. Are the law enforcement actions on display here legal in Denmark? If not, surely there's prison sentences in store for anyone involved. Right?
- jopsen 4mo agoProbably not illegal, questionable ethics. Which could have consequences, but probably not. Regardless, this is enormously dumb. If you want to search and arrest an activist who crosses the line, you make it as boring as possible.
- tim-tday 4mo agolol. No. If anything there would be a minor slap on the wrist for violating procedure. I sincerely doubt the police will get in any trouble for what they did.
- stefantalpalaru 4mo ago[dead]
- raxxorraxor 4mo agoI know of Peter Hummelgaard and I am not even from Denmark. Just because his work and plans. He certainly deserves that tracker and then some...
- bazoom42 4mo agoVery charitable to call it a “grey zone” to stalk and dox children of politicians you dislike.
- WinstonSmith84 4mo ago> He obviously goes over the line, he tried to put GPS trackers on the cars of ministers. He "stalks" their families, and dox their children online. I agree with you that he goes over the line, but only if these ministers are totally unrelated to the measures they are trying to impose on the population. If not, he just gives them a taste of their own medicine.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- MisterTea 4mo ago> He gave an interview on how he'd ignore people carrying a kilo gram of weed when he was a cop because he doesn't agree with the "war on drugs". This is about as far from "over the line" as I can imagine.