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Good. EU has the right to privacy. Apple also has the right to not conduct business in EU. If EU doesn’t like it, they can build their own sovereign software
by graphime 4mo ago
Good.
EU has the right to privacy.
Apple also has the right to not conduct business in EU.
If EU doesn’t like it, they can build their own sovereign software.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- FinnKuhn 4mo agoThis doesn't have anything to do with privacy. The DMA mandates that Apple allows for competition, which (if you believe in capitalism) is good for the market overall. It's essential to stop big tech from abusing their market dominance. However Apple would prefer to not allow competition for their digital products on any of their hardware.
- matchbok3 4mo agoWe already have choice - people can buy many different types of phones. Nothing about this is about choice or the free market. They want special treatment. Apple is free to do what they want. The EU can go and try and build their own iPhone (good luck with that).
- FinnKuhn 4mo ago> We already have choice - people can buy many different types of phones. Do you really? The only two types of operating systems for phones that you could reasonably use are iOS and Android. So it's either Apple or Google. Imagine a world, in which you could only consume Apple or Google services on those phones. No more Netflix or Disney+ on iPhones - only Apple TV Plus because the streaming video API is not available to third party apps. I think there are plenty of other examples to demonstrate the point. A free market doesn't work if you have a duopoly. A free market requires the freedom to choose between different services, which Apple is trying to limit by only allowing Siri AI to access specific OS interfaces. Not sure why some people on hackernews support more locked down operating system.
- matchbok3 4mo agoThere are hundreds of phone models. A smartphone is a just one type. Apple came out of nowhere and invented the smartphone because the existing system was controlled by the telcos and horrible phone technology. The same thing can easily happen again. It makes no sense to limit Netflix on phones and people would probably stop buying iPhones. If the EU wants an "open" phone ecosystem, they should foster real innovation in their space and build it themselves.
- slopinthebag 4mo agoThere are phones running alternative versions of Android with no google dependency, and there are phones running linux. Furthermore, if we lived in a world where the two main OS's were locked down to an insane degree, we would also have plenty of alternative operating systems. The reason we don't today is because we don't really have a need for it, in the same way linux has a monopoly on servers and nobody really cares.
- FinnKuhn 4mo ago> There are phones running alternative versions of Android with no google dependency, and there are phones running linux. Those make up 0% of the market [1], which classifies Apple and Google as gatekeepers. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe/ https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe/
- slopinthebag 4mo ago[flagged]
- FinnKuhn 4mo agoThem making the only phones anyone uses makes them the gatekeepers on what people do on their phones -> Apple and Google are gatekeepers under the DMA. It doesn't matter how they became gatekeepers.
- f6v 4mo agoThe EU is going to be China minus the technology.
- bnj 4mo agoBut that does have to do with privacy. Apple wants to implement features that access data locally. It doesn’t want to allow competition for offering those features, but if it did, competitors may use that access to local data to exfiltrate. So it is about both competition and, as a result of creating competition, privacy.
- FinnKuhn 4mo agoApple is using Cloud compute as well to enable Siri AI. If you want to you could still use Apple or another provider you decide to trust - or even one that does everything locally. The competition would still have to follow GDPR after all.
- theshrike79 4mo agoApple PCC has been independently audited to be ultra secure. Will the EU enforce the same for 3rd party integrations?
- FinnKuhn 4mo agoIf Apple had e.g. required competitors to undergo similar independent audits that would probably be allowed as it is quite similar to how Apple solved the third party app store issue.
- MBCook 4mo agoAre we sure the EU would allow that? Or would it be seen as a way to stifle competition?
- bigyabai 4mo agoI mean, Apple's PCC audits require them to individually vet each auditor before they're allowed to see the PCC nodes. If Apple extended that philosophy to other vendors then yeah, it would be deliberately unfair and anticompetitive.
- crimsontech 4mo agoSiri AI has the capability to read your screen and access a lot of personal stuff. I don't blame Apple for not wanting to open this up to allow any model to access it. It seems Apple proposed a number of solutions which were denied. While I can appreciate the reason for the DMA, people don't have to buy Apple devices, they can buy any type of phone they want and just use the ecosystems provided by these phones.
- woah 4mo agoI believe that the issue was that the EU wanted Apple to open up their new AI agent interface (the ability to control every app on your phone so Siri can call you an Uber or whatever), and Apple thought that it was too risky of a capability to give to any random AI app right out of the gate.
- esperent 4mo ago> Apple thought that it was too risky of a capability to give to any random AI app right out of the gate Oh come on. Apple doesn't want to give up control. That's what this is about. The privacy thing is just to make them look good
- spiderfarmer 4mo agoIf they can comply with China’s unreasonable demands, they can comply with the completely reasonable EU demands. They already claim to care about your freedom and privacy. Now they can prove it.
- frizlab 4mo agoThey are not complying with China’s demand either AFAIK.
- kyralis 4mo agoIt's not launching in China either.
- geodel 4mo agoFirst they are not complying in China. Second it is sheer arrogance if not outright racist crap that China's demands are unreasonable but EU's reasonable. Seriously EU folks need to come to down to earth sometime.
- seanmcdirmid 4mo agoI would venture that Apple is going to go with something fairly different in China with Chinese partners. This is different from 3rd party access because they aren't opening up their phones, it will just be a fixed 2nd party solution (like they do with Google, except Google -> Alibaba, Google Cloud -> Shanghai Water corporation or something like that).
- frizlab 4mo agoEU does not want privacy. They actually want to get rid of privacy every so often (adding backdoors in encrypted conversations). So far it has not worked out, but I’m afraid they will succeed at one point. To follow along that line of thoughts, the requirements they are actually asking for proper DMA compliance would probably go right in that direction tbh. I, for one, am happy Apple is taking a stance, and, as an European would really much like my government to stop asking ridiculous things that do not profit the consumer.
- bmicraft 4mo agoBelieve it or not, the eu is not one single entity with one undivided goal. As is perfectly well demonstrated by chatcontrol being proposed by one side and continually struck down by the other.
- seanmcdirmid 4mo agoWhy is everyone conflating GDPR with DMA? DMA is literally the anti-thesis of GDPR in that, by design, it makes the ecosystem less secure, not more.
- happyopossum 4mo ago> EU has the right to privacy. Sure - the DMA has nothing to do with privacy though, so that's a straw man. or is it a red herring? I always get those confused.
- nonethewiser 4mo agoWhy would the EU want an EU company to make a phone OS with a massive privacy flaw?