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A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)
- xx_ns 4mo ago> A probe packet contains the MAC address as well as the list of all the past Wi-fi networks that your device has tried to join before, which can reveal a lot about you! Generally, most modern devices send broadcast/wildcard probes precisely to avoid leaking the PNL. From what I know, directed probes are only sent for hidden APs.
- oofbey 4mo agoCorrect. All major OSes stopped broadcasting the preferred SSID list by 2017, with Android and Linux being the last. Apple stopped in 2014. Windows by 2009.
- rafram 4mo agoAnd most modern devices randomize MAC addresses ("Wi-Fi addresses" in Apple-ese, for probably obvious reasons) between networks, and even between broadcasts/connections to the same network.
- gausswho 4mo agoI think this is only true for mobile devices? I'm curious how one would configure Linux to randomize MAC addresses by default.
- c22 4mo agoIn Linux changing the MAC address can be done simply on the command line, so I'd probably just write this functionality into a bash script that I'd call before ifup.
- warkdarrior 4mo agohttps://fedoramagazine.org/randomize-mac-address-nm/ https://fedoramagazine.org/randomize-mac-address-nm/
- rafram 4mo agomacOS rotates MAC addresses between networks by default, and between connections to the same network unless it's password-protected. (It's under System Settings -> "Details..." or three-dot menu by a network -> "Private Wi-Fi address.") Windows also randomizes by default as long as your network controller supports it. It sounds like Linux requires some textual configuration that depends on your distro.
- Jordan1604 4mo ago[flagged]
- SauntSolaire 4mo agoSurprisingly milquetoast list given the title
- oofbey 4mo agoThey clearly have an agenda, but also openly acknowledge that public surveillance is a two sided coin, balancing public safety and convenience with privacy. Some of the risks they identify are real, but others are unabashedly exaggerated.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- corprew 4mo agoBased on context on their site, this looks like it was generated in ~2019 from data gathered before that, and some stuff in it is out of date as other comments mention.
- nobody_r_knows 4mo ago[dead]
- smithkl42 4mo agoI wonder what they mean by this? > The camera can have different ways of seeing encoded in it, including kinds of gazes that enforce social agreements about what kinds of behavior and people are considered “normal” The phrase "kinds of gazes" strikes me as the sort of thing that's only going to make sense to people trained in a very particular and idiosyncratic flavor of ethical critique. What a normal person sees here is, "These cameras can detect if people are acting bizarre and dangerous," which is probably something most people would appreciate. In Seattle, the problem, of course, is that the streets are full of people acting bizarre and dangerous, it doesn't take a camera network to find them, and the police seem to be under strict orders not to do anything about it.
- Stefan-H 4mo agoWhat came to mind is a camera pointed at the cash register tells a very different story than the camera pointed at the ATM, or pointing from the ATM for that matter. Placement and the stories behind them offer interesting perspectives on what the observers are trying to catch or deter.
- bonoboTP 4mo agoDo you mean trying to catch employee theft vs theft by externals? Why can't you write plainly instead of in riddles?
- Stefan-H 4mo agoYou are asking me why I can't write plainly, but I believe you're confusing me for the author, but I'll answer you anyways. "Plain" language removes nuance. Example: "She sat on the chair". The number of ways that action can be described are as innumerable as the ways it can be done, and then some - as different people may describe an act in different ways. Communication in all forms is lossy, but you can convey more than just direct ideas by adding subtext or using language that draws the reader to make comparisons new comparisons. Perhaps the author used gaze to anthropomorphize the camera to add on the layer of judgement or shame that the camera conveys, perhaps to an employee that is not trusted to manage a till.
- shermantanktop 4mo agoLots of po-mo art-school language on this site about “encoding ways of seeing” and “gazes.” The content itself is somewhat interesting but imo plain language would be more accessible.
- patja 4mo agoI'm still trying to figure out how I feel about statements like these which seem to assume the reader is incredibly uninformed and naive, to the point of condescension. "sends the information to a central storing place (called a database)" TIL what the word database means? "Amazon can use your purchases to know more about you using patterns." Is this news to someone? Condescending. "It might be connected to a network (via Internet or radio frequency)" Radio frequency and Internet are not really directly comparable Also don't like that the site hijacks the appearance of my mouse pointer, which feels similarly disrespectful of the reader.
- gs17 4mo agoThe way it's written, I wouldn't be surprised if it was meant to be read by/to children (or at least used by a elementary/middle school teacher).
- raincole 4mo agoI think these criticisms are unjustified. The article could be aiming for less tech-savvy people. Remember the most tech-savvy people in the world are those who enabled the surveillance infrastructure in the first place. Also if you want any meaningful grassroot change, you need to appeal to the less knowledgeable cohorts. Politics is more or less "which informed people can convince the most uninformed ones." > Is this news to someone? Yes, many. xkcd 1053.
- lovich 4mo agoA bit of xkcd 2501 going on in this thread as well
- anigbrowl 4mo ago
- tpolm 4mo agoIf the survelliance tech is so great, why post amber alert messages with the license plate numbers all over all highways to help find the car?
- mc32 4mo agoThe more eyes the better the chances. Obviously it’s not total information awareness the likes one of the previous DNIs dreampt about. We see its imperfection if the fact that a very public case in an Arizona abduction case is basically cold. They basically have zero leads -which is pretty incredible in this day and age.
- bombcar 4mo agoThe Amber Alert system is much older than promiscuous cameras. 99% of the time it’s a custodial dispute, but that’s orthogonal.
- pietervdvn 4mo agoFor everyone interested in this topic: with https://mapcomplete.org/surveillance https://mapcomplete.org/surveillance, anyone can easily see and update surveillance camera's in OpenStreetMap
- richard_chase 4mo agoSaying that patterns are dangerous because they can reinforce stereotypes sounds a lot like you are saying the stereotypes are true.
- bonoboTP 4mo agoAlso the gorilla example from many years ago makes it seem like the author just superficially follows this stuff from the media. It was a single instance of misclassification in a widely deployed photo categorization model, not some reproducible trend with the models.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- sandcat_ 4mo agoThe problem with stereotypes isn’t their accuracy (they often are inaccurate or outdated but that’s beside the point). Otherwise you are effectively saying that it’s ok to be *-ist as long as you’re accurate. The problem is they are unfair, dehumanizing and cruel, and based off categories we usually can’t control.
- chadgpt3 4mo agoI don't agree. Stereotypes that are wrong but get reinforced by selective reporting are bad. Let's say a person believes that (to pick an absurd example) all Scottish people are rapists. Every time he reads a headline "Scottish man rapes woman" his belief will strengthen, but when he reads "Irish man rapes woman" it won't weaken. And of course there are no headlines saying "Scottish man does not rape woman". Ubiquitous surveillance and publication of crimes has the potential to industrialize this process. If there are more rape headlines going around, then of course there will be more where the perpetrator is Scottish and the ratchet advances more quickly. Especially if you use machine learning which easily reinforces biases. If you train it on lots of Scottish rape cases it'll learn a lower threshold for detecting Scottish people as rapists and then your bias has translated into a real statistical difference in detected crimes and even a difference in arrests and convictions.
- Fogest 4mo agoI still feel so conflicted on things like the Flock cameras. On one hand I understand that they have the capability of incredibly enhancing the ability for police departments to solve more crimes. Especially things related to vehicle theft, they could likely track down your stolen vehicle very quickly especially if they have a wide network of cameras. However, my concern is always about the possibility for misuse. Even if I trust the current government, it doesn't mean I will trust a future one. What if they use the technology to track/monitor people like investigative journalists? We've already seen a recent state passing bills that would make it harder for investigative journalism to happen. So it's not even out of the realm of possibility for this technology to get used in ways that even would be deemed "legal" as they can simply expand the laws to use it unreasonably in the future. There is also the other obvious concern which is surrounding things like data breaches or other unauthorized access issues. There have already been many people exposing some large security flaws in a lot of the devices currently out there. Where I am stuck is how do we balance the huge set of benefits that can come from this kind of tech, with the tradeoffs? Ultimately this tech is unlikely to stop being implemented as governments and even most of the population is largely unbothered by mass surveillance. I almost don't even bother bringing up discussions on these topics with non-tech people as I have yet to find someone who seemed to care at all about this. If anything they are very in support of this technology being implemented as they seem unable to understand the tradeoffs due to it often requiring more technical knowledge. They just see all the positives it can give, and don't grasp the negatives. Ultimately people usually desire safety, and these cameras definitely can give people more safety. Is it possible to balance safety with proper privacy safeguards?
- trbleclef 4mo agoWhat's that quote about essential Liberty and temporary Safety again...
- stickfigure 4mo agoWhen you get a gun pointed at your face, or your home violated, or your car stolen, you tend to rebalance your principles a little. The cameras are a symptom of bigger problems.
- Barbing 4mo agoFlat black circles on top of traffic signal control boxes, which are large, gray or painted metal boxes, typically found at street corners. The Acyclica device casts a fake Wi-Fi network and tracks phones that try to join the network in passing cars. Since each phone has a unique identifier …, different Acyclica installations can track your personal location as you pass them in the city. Is iOS latest susceptible on default settings? w/“Rotating” “Private Wi-Fi Address“
- haossr 4mo agohttps://github.com/stanford-policylab/surveilling-surveillance https://github.com/stanford-policylab/surveilling-surveillan...
- mips_avatar 4mo agoStill somehow was "impossible" for the Seattle police to recover security camera footage of my bike being stolen under the light rail station security camera.
- bombcar 4mo agoYou made the common error of being common, and not related to the mayor or others in positions of power.
- brk 4mo agoThere are too many technical inaccuracies in this to take it serious (or to try and address them all here). Directionally it is fairly accurate, but the author clearly has very little knowledge of surveillance cameras, their capabilities, or even broadly how to identify ALPR vs. traffic control cameras (and similar nuances).
- lgats 4mo ago"The Acyclica device casts a fake Wi-Fi network and tracks phones that try to join" an incorrect start to a bunch of incorrect/outdated info
- Lammy 4mo ago> Each surveillance technology in our field guide includes the following categories to help you “spot” surveillance technology in the wild One shouldn't trust their eyes alone to spot all the hidden cameras that private property owners love to have covering the streets. For example, it took me months to realize that a tenant in my own building has three cameras pointed down from the windows of their unit and can track my every coming and going if they so wish, and that's an environment I have my eyes on every single day. I have a modified Olympus OM-D E-M5Ⅱ MFT camera body that I picked up on a whim because it came with a bunch of lenses and batteries and other things I wanted to use with my PEN-F, and it turned out to be amazing for spotting hidden surveillance cameras. The way it works is that the underlying camera sensor can see IR by design, and an IR-cut filter is installed over it to restrict it to the visible spectrum for photography. The mod simply opens up the camera body and removes that part. Surveillance cameras in dark rooms (or at night on the street) then show up as bright spots, because the modified body can see the ring of IR LEDs they use to illuminate dark scenes for night surveillance. I don't have any surveillance-spotting images to share, because I usually only do that via the viewfinder live preview (because tbh a photo of an all-black room with a single bright IR blob isn't interesting enough to shoot), but for example here is my IR photo of the Windows XP “Bliss” hill (near the Sonoma/Napa border) both as-shot and after channel mixing: - https://i.ibb.co/23t4HdrZ/P5160220-1.jpg https://i.ibb.co/23t4HdrZ/P5160220-1.jpg - https://i.ibb.co/1Yw8RFLS/P5160220-2.jpg https://i.ibb.co/1Yw8RFLS/P5160220-2.jpg edit: Fine, link to web store removed at behest of shithead [dead] commenter. Find your own if you want one. If you must know, I got mine from Seawood Photo in San Rafael. How's this for an ad if you're so fucking bothered? – I'm Lammy and this is my favorite camera shop in the San Francisco Bay Area: d(^^ ) https://www.seawood.shop/ https://www.seawood.shop/ ( ^^)b
- sieabahlpark 4mo ago[dead]
- dylan604 4mo agoI've rented modified cameras for using to shoot the night sky multiple times. Without fail, the weather for the dark sky that I've rented gear has been shite overcast, rainy, and one time even flooded the location. It has been a waste of money every. single. time. One day, I'll actually get to use a modified camera body for purpose I just know it
- zeafoamrun 4mo agoThis is out of date, Amazon Go has shut down. RIP to some really cool tech.
- drnick1 4mo ago> Amazon Go has shut down Good riddance.
- rafram 4mo ago(The tech in question: surveillance cameras being monitored live by 1,000 people in India! https://www.fastcompany.com/91483585/amazon-go-closing https://www.fastcompany.com/91483585/amazon-go-closing)
- ux266478 4mo agoThe surveillance mesh of ring cameras sure hasn't, ironically enough.
- nostromo 4mo agoI think this is just the new normal. My car was stolen in Seattle and it was found with the person driving it when he was pulled over by police. In the car he had paperwork with his name on it, a weapon, and his work uniform in the trunk with a name badge (he was a security guard - lol) along with a neighborhood witness. Despite a mountain of evidence, the prosecutors declined to press charges because without direct video evidence of him stealing the car, they would not get a jury to convict, because jurors in Seattle have become accustom to thinking that the only way to overcome reasonable doubt is to have it on video. And even that often isn't enough...
- dylan604 4mo agoYou know, sometimes, you just gotta get to work and the busses just aren't going to get you there in time. /s I was in a jury pool not in Seattle for a guy that already pled guilty for GTA, so it was just the sentencing part. The defense attorney asked if I thought it might be possible to sentence the minimum. I said yes. The prosecutor asked if I thought I could give the the maximum sentence of 99 years. I said for stealing a car? I was bounced from the pool. So maybe juries in Seattle have had their fair share of prosecutorial shenanigans as well???
- bonoboTP 4mo agoI thought jurors don't decide the sentence length, just the (not) guilty verdict. Are you implying they were testing whether you're willing to let the judge use the entire span of sentencing available in law? Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean that you were bounced from the jury because the defense lawyer wanted you to be fine with 99 years in prison for his client.
- dylan604 4mo agoNope. The jury was to give the sentence. This depends on jurisdiction when the jury does the sentencing. Capital murder cases are a famous example. I guess I was lucky that my local jurisdiction said GTA was worth of a jury sentencing?? The defense attorney was looking for jurors sympathetic to giving his client the least time possible. The prosecutor was looking for people to throw the book at the defendant and be open to maximum sentencing. Because I was not, he struck me.
- titzer 4mo agoAmerica needs to realize that this is absolutely not the land of the free anymore. The government and big business are in cahoots to screw you out of every cent they can and to make sure you're not about to commit some unspeakable act of terror, like hold up the wrong protest sign. Edit: case in point by https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-oracle-co-founder-larry-ellison-citizens-will-be-on-their-best-behavior-because-were-constantly-recording-and-reporting-everything-that-is-going-on-a-dire-warning-on-the-erosion-of-privacy https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-oracle-co-...
- drnick1 4mo agoWhere do you suggest we move to then, China?
- ryanisnan 4mo agoI think that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It should be possible to live in the US and resist the surveillance state. Keep fighting.
- hammock 4mo agoThe countryside. Near-zero public surveillance, near-zero violent crime, and conservative sheriffs and juries who work to keep it that way.
- rootusrootus 4mo agoThis is only true if you conform to social conservatism. Conservatives embrace authority and condone using it to enforce conformity. They only want less government when it comes to their own taxes & guns.
- hammock 4mo agoEverything has a tradeoff
- 4mo ago
- richardfey 4mo ago> To do this, your device is shouting to the world a ton of your personal information in something called a probe packet. A probe packet contains the MAC address as well as the list of all the past Wi-fi networks that your device has tried to join before, which can reveal a lot about you! In the 2010s, maybe. Nowadays MAC address randomisation is the norm and past WiFi networks are not broadcast anymore.
- mertleee 4mo ago[dead]
- GenericDev 4mo ago[dead]
- throwaway-blaze 4mo agoI don't like needless surveillance either but we have people (and kids!) getting shot all over the city, and juries and judges that won't do anything without video or photographic evidence of the crime. I am literally willing to trade some of my liberty for safety in this case. When crime is under control, let's discuss getting rid of them (which I know is farfetched).
- superxpro12 4mo agothis cat's never going back in the bag. i will be shocked if the end of this road leads to anything other than a dystopian surveillance state abused by a few people at the top that the law doesnt apply to.
- HNisCIS 4mo agoThere are a multitude of ways to significantly curtail crime that don't rely on this paradigm of spying on everyone. That's like saying "I can't get to work on time, we need to keep making the highway wider".
- HDBaseT 4mo agoGuns and weapons have existed for much longer than mass video surveillance. There is no reason why we cannot prosecute people for shooting, stabbing or robbing people because there isn't a 4K60FPS stream for the incident. We need investigators to start doing their job again..
- marssaxman 4mo agoI walked around downtown Seattle twenty-five years ago helping my ex-wife make a survey like this, cataloging & photographing surveillance devices for a project she was working on. I wonder whatever came of it. Even then, it was difficult to get very far without passing through the view of some security camera or other.
- bombcar 4mo agoWhat’s amazing is that you only see the cameras they want you to see (the whole deterrent thing is such they sell empty cameras). Actual buildings that care about security in a “government paranoia” way have many more cameras you won’t be able to easily find from the street.
- metalrain 4mo agoIsn't any camera with low enough angle good for license plate reading with additional software?
- bombcar 4mo agoYou can have license plate readers at home if you want (years ago I confirmed that everything existed to measure the speed of cars driving past my house using common cameras, image recognition, and software). I never actually put it together and maybe should try with AI now. The missing link is the easy database to pull it all up in a moments notice as opposed to subpoenaing footage all over the city and digging through it.
- cyberax 4mo agoThis is an example of a political science phenomenon: delegation of authority. The state itself can't deal with a problem (sky-high nuisance and property crime rates) so people are taking the issue into their own hands. That's also why all this video surveillance startup that shall remain unnamed is still doing quite well: a lot of people WANT cameras to watch every movement in the streets. What is the fix? Solve the original problem: highly visible property crime by repeat offenders.
- chadgpt3 4mo agoIs that the original problem or is it already downstream of something?
- senderista 4mo agoBTW, you can drive around in Seattle with no plates at all and police are not allowed to pull you over ("primary stops" are forbidden[1]). [1] https://westseattleblog.com/2022/01/heres-what-spd-isnt-likely-to-pull-you-over-for-any-more/ https://westseattleblog.com/2022/01/heres-what-spd-isnt-like...
- exabrial 4mo agoWhy are blue states, cities, and counties obsessed with surveillance? And things like red light cameras, speed cameras, and anything else they can get their grubby hands on?
- telcal 4mo agoIn the early 2000s after 9/11 there was a guy doing public surveillance tours around New York City using "photocopies of hand-drawn maps". NY Times archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20100317184609/https://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/17/nyregion/watching-big-brother-on-this-tour-hidden-cameras-are-hidden-no-more.html https://web.archive.org/web/20100317184609/https://www.nytim...