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My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should nev
by zuzululu 5mo ago
My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud.
I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place.
Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country.
Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low trust societies rarely transform into high trust society.
- Cider9986 5mo agoAccept crypto for those countries, it doesn't have chargebacks and helps those vulnerable to the financial system.
- shimman 5mo agoMan people are still using the "it's a currency" grift when discussing crypto, did the El Salvador failure really teach you nothing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_in_El_Salvador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_in_El_Salvador
- koolba 5mo agoCrypto does have the distinct cash like advantage of not having chargebacks. I don’t know of any other digital payment system with that property.
- sieabahlpark 5mo ago[dead]
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 5mo agoThat's less because it was Bitcoin and more because the entire effort was a slapdash affair pushed by Bukele in an effort for him and his buddies to profit off the cryptocurrency boom rather than being an inherent knock on cryptocurrency itself. Also of all the cryptocurrencies Bitcoin is a pretty poor choice since it could be pretty well argued that it has lost the original purpose and devolved into a raw "line go up" financial instrument.
- sieabahlpark 5mo ago[dead]
- Cider9986 5mo agoThat's the whole thing with Monero. It's actually used as a currency, not as a get rich quick scam. I believe 99% of crypto is a scam, but Monero is a real improvement for payments. The Monero community actually wants it to be adopted to spend it, it's not a price go up community. Buy food with Monero on an ebay type platform called xmrbazaar. (https://xmrbazaar.com/search-category/food/ https://xmrbazaar.com/search-category/food/) Donate to non-profits in Monero (https://donatemonero.org https://donatemonero.org) GrapheneOS says it's the only crypto that they regularly get recurring small donations in.
- epestr 5mo agoI went down a bit of a search looking for counter evidence that crypto is likely less available to them, and it turns out both perspectives are true depending on the scale you look at. At the micro-level, survey data from emerging markets[0] confirms that crypto offers immunity against institutional failure and inflationary currency. But this QJE article[1] argues there's a ceiling to how far things scale. Concluding that the cost to keep a decentralized network secure scales with its total economic value. So while there is immediate value to it's user, it might not scale well, and can't replace a country's financial system anyway because securing it at a sovereign scale would just be more expensive. [0]: https://www.mdpi.com/1911-8074/17/10/467 https://www.mdpi.com/1911-8074/17/10/467 [1]: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/140/1/1/7824430 https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/140/1/1/7824430
- denkmoon 5mo agoHave you ever actually used crypto to buy something? The transaction fees are exorbitant and prohibitive, and it's slow as balls.
- Cider9986 5mo agoYes, all the time. I usually pay a 1 cent fee and the transaction goes through in seconds. Not sure what you're talking about. I can send you some if you want to try it out, just drop an address(for a wallet I recommend cakewallet, but any popular open source wallet works). I'm talking about Monero specifically, but your reply makes no sense because there are cryptos that have 0 transaction fee and instant confirmaiton. But they are less secure and private so I don't use them, I only use Monero.
- denkmoon 5mo agoYeah, monero has low transaction fees. And is a pain in the ass to get, even more so in significant quantity or at a good exchange rate. You pay a significant premium for the privacy. So just different types of fees. Monero is also far from instant in my experience. I too have plenty of purchasing experience with crypto and I wouldn’t advocate for it for any legal transaction.
- Cider9986 5mo ago> And is a pain in the ass to get, even more so in significant quantity or at a good exchange rate. It's easy to get in the USA on Kraken from fiat for a very low fee or 0 with their pro plan. > Monero is also far from instant in my experience. It's up to the merchant to decide how many transactions before finishing their end of the deal. For small purchases it's low risk to do 0 confirmations and you can scale with price. I've seen hundred dollar sales given out as soon as the transaction hits the mempool, before the first confirmation as well as 5 dollar sales that require waiting the whole 10 confirmations.
- DaSHacka 5mo agoThat depends on the currency you use. I've only ever used Monero and the transfer fees are fractions of a cent.
- zuzululu 5mo agoI dont follow. If regular finance to a country is that much distanced from global financial oversight and treaties where crypto (with awful spreads) becomes the norm that doesnt necessarily mean they are victims of international financial order but that regular financially modeling simply cannot manage their unique risk characteristics
- Cider9986 5mo agoDamn, I made a great reply and it never sent–that sucks. I was more nuanced and specific, but I don't want to do it all again. 1. The fees are not awful idk what you mean, I pay between 0.1% and 1% fees on Monero transactions. 2. If the modelling can't manage their risk characteristics, they are by definition a victim of the financial system. I was more talking about people who have been debanked, though. I have a Russian friend who can't pay for things online in fiat because of sanctions and the risk to his life from being on the free internet. So, he uses Monero and Tor and takes his OPSEC seriously. He is a victim of trad-fi, and Monero allows him to take his freedom back.
- tsimionescu 5mo agoThis is actually one of the major reasons people should be very weary of accepting crypto, especially Monero. Instead of being able to basically outsource sanctions compliance to a bank, you take on the burden of trying to figure out if your customers are sanctioned yourself - with potentially dire consequences to your business if you get it wrong.
- u8080 5mo ago>risk to his life from being on the free internet Idk where you are getting this, but "risk to his life from being on the free internet" is total BS.
- Cider9986 5mo agoIt's happened in China: >Gao Yu, a veteran independent journalist and dissident, has been harassed by police repeatedly for visiting and posting on Twitter. https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_voa-news-china_chinese-authorities-punish-citizens-using-foreign-social-media/6198214.html https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_voa-news-china_c... It's already banned in Russia, it's not crazy to say that you could get in trouble. Recently they have been cracking down even more. (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr510de17jlo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr510de17jlo)
- edflsafoiewq 5mo ago> I'm not going to name those countries outright Why?
- zonkerdonker 5mo ago[flagged]
- zuzululu 5mo agowhy is racism always the go to response for any suggestion that different countries have different valuesand that translates into observable and verifiable behavioral patterns that should be studied and recognized ? how can it be that all countries and cultures are alike with no room for diversity in ethics and overton window ?
- MBCook 5mo agoI would assume it’s not that relevant to the advice. And people will always argue about the countries if you list them. X isn’t bad. You should include Y. You only added/omitted Z because of $stereotype/$racistView/$otherAllegation. Probably just not worth the hassle.
- izacus 5mo ago[flagged]
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 5mo ago[flagged]
- shash7 5mo agoI've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.
- esseph 5mo agoJust because the card is US-based doesn't mean the user is.
- zuzululu 5mo ago13 over 4 years is tiny sample compared to what I've seen on international scale. Great advice which is why data is what I'm relying on vs anecdotes.
- squigz 5mo ago
- gingerlime 5mo agoThis case was Canada. The US and I imagine Canada are known for the ease of chargebacks. My experience in Europe is that it's a very tough process to even initiate (as a consumer)
- orwin 5mo agoMy only experience as a European is that I called the support number on my card, they fixed the in 5 minutes, cancelled my card, sent me a new one and set me up with a temporary one.
- gingerlime 5mo agoif it was stolen then I guess it’s fairly standard. Disputing specific transactions is much harder though. They ask for evidence you contacted the seller etc and make the process difficult from my very limited experience on the “other end” of the transaction.
- rtgfhyuj 5mo ago[flagged]
- laserdancepony 5mo ago[flagged]
- hosteur 5mo agoWhy do you not want to name them?
- bellowsgulch 5mo agoIt makes the conversation turn into an electromagnet for racists. You can’t ignore the stereotypes, but you can let people figure it out themselves. You don’t have to say it when it’s already obvious.
- rtgfhyuj 5mo ago[dead]
- phoronixrly 5mo agoYour comment is extra funny as OP mentioned the customer was Canadian. Have you considered trying to avoid stereotypes?
- HaZeust 5mo ago>"Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low trust societies rarely transform into high trust society." Outside of South Korea, from enormous help from Pax Americana, has it ever happened?
- jhancock 5mo agoI was told by someone in the industry that New Zealand leads the pack for travelling outside NZ and coming home to refute charges.
- modo_mario 5mo agoI'm no longer convinced those high trust societies will remain so. Every high trust society has been pushed to opened it's doors wide and the changes have been stark.
- amelius 5mo agoThat's very lazy and unfriendly against people who are not fraudsters.