5 ms·

UCLA discovers first stroke rehabilitation drug to repair brain damage (2025)

448 points by bookofjoe 6mo ago

benoau 6mo ago
> “The goal is to have a medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation,” said Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study’s lead author and professor and chair of UCLA Neurology. “Rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery. Sounds truly amazing, I have known two people who had severe strokes - one's PT was contingent on triaging resources to whoever was likely to recover more, another simply hated PT and speech therapy and often refused to participate or do the exercises. Even if it didn't help recovery a medicine like this would have reduced the stress of everyone involved.
mlmonkey 6mo ago
Are there any supplements that can work for neurogenesis? I've heard Lions Mane extract can do this, but I'm not sure. Anybody know of anything?
- dirtbagskier 6mo ago
  Cardiovascular exercise and strength training. Both are thought to contribute to neurogenesis, even in healthy people
- throwforfeds 6mo ago
  There's (minimal) research on psilocybin doing just that. One of the tragedies of prohibition is that we just weren't able to study these psychedelic compounds easily for 50+ years.
  - grvdrm 6mo ago
    Have any sources? I’d love to read what you are thinking about. I haven’t used psilocybin in a clinical setting but have gone through an alternative psychedelic-assisted therapy process. Very interesting results and many positives.
    - sowbug 6mo ago
      Not necessarily neurogenesis, but evidence of neuroplasticity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48030098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48030098
      - grvdrm 6mo ago
        Thank you.
    - throwforfeds 6mo ago
      There's not a lot, unfortunately. This paper is a literature review and the claims are weak, but there's something there that should be investigated further: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12392120/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12392120/ Paul Stamets has evangelized psilocybin + lions mane + niacin for years in a microdosing format, but again, the research is lacking largely due to prohibition.
      - grvdrm 6mo ago
        Awesome. Thank you.
  - thinkcontext 6mo ago
    Not to take away from your point about psilocybin but the mushroom brought up, lions mane, is not hallucinogenic.
    - throwforfeds 6mo ago
      For sure, and lions mane is one of the three things Paul Stamets has been talking about for years to take in combination with niacin and psilocybin (microdose) to support neurogenesis. Low doses of psilocybin have only very mild perceptual changes, much less than smoking weed or drinking alcohol (for me). But again, there's not much science on it which will hopefully change.
- toasty228 6mo ago
  If you don't sleep 8+ hours a day every single day, exercise regularly, live in a place with clean air, eat clean food, don't drink alcohol, etc. you're losing your time, no amount of supplement will make up for our modern way of life, you're going to optimise the 0.1% while missing the 99.9% that matters
  - SilentM68 6mo ago
    That is true, but keep in mind that routine is very difficult to do for someone that makes their living running the rat race, with stress, no time, responsibilities, worry, untreated health problems, etc. If you have the money, job security, then you'll have peace of mind. That will then allow one to live that kind of optimized lifestyle.
    - rexpop 6mo ago
      This is why we cannot abide scabs.
      - SilentM68 6mo ago
        I see your point :)
        rexpop 6mo ago
        Self-respect is an act of charity.
- caycep 6mo ago
  Of note, cautionary tale is too much neurogenesis is brain cancer...
  - dymk 6mo ago
    No, brain cancer is brain cancer.
    - caycep 6mo ago
      which is poorly differentiated cells undergoing unchecked neurogenesis...
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - dymk 6mo ago
        That’s like saying a fire on an oil rig is the same as combustion in a car engine
        adastra22 6mo ago
        It’s not as bad an analogy as you make it sound. It is more like “fire is what makes our factories run, and oil fuels fire. So let’s douse our factories in gasoline to speed things up.”
- NDlurker 6mo ago
  Noopept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omberacetam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omberacetam
- sysreq_ 6mo ago
  Nicotine is the only psychoactive substance proven to increase intellectual function. Rote neurogenisis does not - much in the same way height isn’t a proxy for IQ. Stimulants like Adderall, Caffiene, etc are Dunning-Kruger by proxy.
  - contingencies 6mo ago
    [flagged]
  - oharapj 6mo ago
    You mean placebo? Not sure that Dunning-Kruger is applicable here
    - sysreq_ 6mo ago
      Maybe a better term is “stimulant-induced metacognitive miscalibration”. An induced a state of overconfidence similar to Dunning-Kruger - even thought the underlying mechanism is different. You perceive the idea as great not because you suddenly understand it better or know more. You think the idea is great because of the dopamine flooding your brain. And much like Dunning-Kruger, even thought you might think you did better, real world results don’t match your expectations.
- aeonik 6mo ago
  Alpha-GPC and Uridine Monophosphate appear to have some effect, though minor. Also not exactly neurogenesis, but adjacent stuff. Evidence is complicated, there seems to be a signal but it's a weak effect.
- RobotToaster 6mo ago
  Supposedly NGF eye drops https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/is-this-the-secret-of-eternal-life-1674005.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/is-this-the-secre...
- SilentM68 6mo ago
  I've read online that "Bacopa Monnieri" is a particularly strong and researched herbal supplement for cognitive maintenance, enhancement and neuroprotection, with the potential of supporting neurogenesis. I've not tried that stuff since money is hard to come by these days. There have been a few human studies. You can find more info here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=bacopa+monnieri+cognition https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=bacopa+monnieri+cognit... and here: https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/bacopa-monnieri https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/bacopa-monnieri
  - bookofjoe 6mo ago
    https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-superior-herbs-bacopa-monnieri-extract-bacognize-250-mg-90-caps?variant=46319095677066&DFA=1&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=&utm_id=23078457332&utm_source=google&utm_content=&SourceCode=&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23221997885&gbraid=0AAAAAD_VhC39QgQ2_dr0K8jRjIbb9lucH&gclid=CjwKCAjwn4vQBhBsEiwAq3hhN8CZc166weTjQJRiCIt6k394T2Nc_Yhfn0yCOdsNkpjRfTgSL6VhexoC1fMQAvD_BwE https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-superior-herbs-bac...
    - SilentM68 6mo ago
      Thank you for the link :) I’ve been researching potential solutions to stimulate neurogenesis, specifically looking for a combined approach that maximizes the beneficial effects of several powerful herbs while prioritizing safety and remaining affordable to the sub-middle class. After some research and consultation with AI tools (obviously), I’ve narrowed down a promising blend of ingredients: Bacopa, Curcumin (with piperine – black pepper extract – to improve absorption), Lion’s Mane, Gotu Kola, NGF (delivered via eye drops or another method), Hericium Erinaceus, Marine Collagen, and Dimethylaminoethanol Bitartrate (DMAE). The investigation has made it clear that truly effective neurogenesis isn’t just about boosting NGF levels. It requires a holistic strategy – carefully balancing metabolic pathways, antioxidant defenses, gut health, and inflammation modulation. Creating a supportive environment for neuronal survival, growth, and communication is key, and that includes addressing factors like stress management. Perhaps one of the Bio-themed Tech bros on this forum might consider taking on this type of research endeavor. Or maybe there's an Eddie Morra-themed Tech bro that might have more "Limitless" how-to advice on the matter because the above to-do list is definitely, above my paygrade :)
dirtbagskier 6mo ago
[dead]
seabass-salmon 6mo ago
[dead]
- caycep 6mo ago
  It really depends on how much the company wants to invest. If it really worked, then it would be relatively straightforward for them to put together a Phase II. Not cheap, but relatively straightforward. Or at least it would have been when we had a functioning FDA Also, the other definition in question is what the UCLA PR person means by "repairing brain damage". As far as I can tell from the paper - the "drug" part was using some neurotransmitter blockers on brain cells on a Petri dish to see if they could change gene expression or oscillatory firing patterns matching recordings in mice undergoing "physical therapy". They did not actually test to see if the stuff grew new brain cells or dendritic connections.
0xWTF 6mo ago
... in male mice. I think savvy universities want PIs who are savvy enough to realize that the point of these is to boost measurable visibility like citation count and h-index, so the headline of a news release boosting the article doesn't matter. They can always blame a copy editor for the headlines. It could read "world peace solved with moon juice." The provost would only care if it generated negative feedback. So it's the PR department's job to juice it as much as possible without getting blowback.
- somewhatgoated 6mo ago
  Isn’t that where all drugs start out? But yea the headline doesnt tell the full story
  - cwillu 6mo ago
    “…in mice” isn't a criticism of the science, it's a criticism of the popularization.
  - adastra22 6mo ago
    There are many drugs that don’t work on mice.
KnuthIsGod 6mo ago
[flagged]
- bawolff 6mo ago
  People go on about this too much. Its the first step, it shows promise. Does that mean it will neccesarily work? No, of course not. But its still exciting to see progress being made.
  - bena 6mo ago
    But it's not progress. Not really. Mice are used only partly because they share a considerable amount of DNA with us. But they're mostly used because they're cheap. Both in financial and ethical costs. They live for about two years, and breed in about three months. They are disposable. Over 100 million are killed each year in various labs across the country. And for all of this, only about 5% of medicine that show positive animal results make it to market in some fashion. So basically, the best thing we can say about a mouse-tested drug is that "this most likely won't make things worse". But that's like a low bar.
    - whatshisface 6mo ago
      I think there's some kind of fallacy where you can look at five drugs, all of which came from a pool of 100 promising candidates, then look at the next 100 candidates and say for each one individually that it is not worth celebrating. I call it the, "rounding to zero" fallacy. In reality, if you have 100 5% chances of a cure for a previously incurable illness, you can celebrate each chance a lot.
      - bawolff 6mo ago
        > In reality, if you have 100 5% chances of a cure for a previously incurable illness, you can celebrate each chance a lot. These numbers are obviously entirely made up, but its worth noting that 100 5% chances of a cure, means you have at least 1 cure with (1-(.95)^100) = 99.4% probability. If you are curing an incurable disease with 99.4% probability, celebrating a lot would be an understatement.
MattCruikshank 6mo ago
If you've read Ted Chiang's "Understand," you'll understand why this headline made my eyes pop out. For those who haven't, it's in the "Stories of Your Life and Others" collection, which includes the short story that the film Arrival was based on.
- naxios_official 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- TheGRS 6mo ago
  I just read this a few months ago and it was my first thought as well! Like Flowers for Algernon taken to its extremes.
- jadbox 6mo ago
  I'm a big fan of Ted Chiang's "Understand" short story, but I think your way over hyping the study there: more neuron growth does not even generally translate to higher intelligence and can often introduce a variety of degenerative effects because pathways are not being grown a an organized systematic way through natural process of experience adaptation.
- locallost 6mo ago
  Thanks for the hint. I'd always thought the movie was inspired by Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. The premise was the same, and even the aliens looked somewhat similar. Vonnegut jokingly described them as an upside down toilet brush.
nubg 6mo ago
How do they test this on mice? Do they trigger brain seizures in them?
- Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
  Many different techniques for different types of stroke: We can block certain arteries mechanically by inserting a tool, inject photosensitive agent then cause a targeted clot with a laser, inject clotting agent, choke, inject blood vessel dissolving agent and re-inject its own blood. I understand why we research this but I just could not do it.
  - srean 6mo ago
    I can understand. One of our family friends just could not continue draining monkeys of blood for biochemistry research. I have been to his lab. The monkeys would panic whenever their cages were touched. I can one needs a level of sociopathy or psychopath to continue this kind of research. The benefits to humanity is substantial though.
    - erikerikson 6mo ago
      So you do nothing on the trolley problem, eh? Not to troll but it doesn't require disease to work through discomfort if you believe the outcome will be worth it.
      - srean 6mo ago
        Why not experiments on convicted criminals, inmates, prisoners of war, political prisoners ... The line is somewhat arbitrary and personal. It makes sense to the person. To be honest, I don't know what decision I will take if a trolley problem is jumped on me without prior notice.
        erikerikson 6mo ago
        As you write, we all have our own balances. I'd suggest there are ethical reasons against those. As a society we have investigation review boards, laws, and other conventions. There is a sizable set of people that like to outsource (want it done but not to do it) which seems dishonest, like the town butcher in Buddhism bring a bad karma sink.
kleton 6mo ago
It is this compound https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106304/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106304/
- elevaet 6mo ago
  DDL-920, which apparently looks like this: https://www.probechem.com/userfiles/product/PC-22875.gif https://www.probechem.com/userfiles/product/PC-22875.gif "DDL-920 is a potent, selective and brain permeable negative allosteric modulator (NAM) of the γ-aminobutyric acid type A receptors (GABARs), inhibits parvalbumin (PV) expressing interneurons (PV+INs) and consequently enhances γ-oscillations both in vitro and in vivo." https://www.probechem.com/products_DDL-920.html https://www.probechem.com/products_DDL-920.html
trhway 6mo ago
> This type of neuron helps generate a brain rhythm, termed a gamma oscillation, which links neurons together so that they form coordinated networks to produce a behavior, such as movement. Stroke causes the brain to lose gamma oscillations. Successful physical rehabilitation in both laboratory mice and humans brought gamma oscillations back into the brain and, in the mouse model, repaired the lost connections of parvalbumin neurons. >Carmichael and the team then identified two candidate drugs that might produce gamma oscillations after stroke. These drugs specifically work to excite parvalbumin neurons. Asking while being total layperson here - can we generate those gamma oscillations by an [may be implanted] electronic device? Edit: and google search to help, judging by the dates seems to be a pretty fresh field : https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3002806 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... "... by pairing robotic rehabilitation with a clinical-like noninvasive 40 Hz transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation, we achieved similar motor improvements mediated by the effective restoring of movement-related gamma band power, improvement of PV-IN maladaptive network dynamics, and increased PV-IN connections in premotor cortex. " It also sounds like getting an exoskeleton for such patients can be helpful not only to perform immediate tasks, it also can be a part of the restoring process.
nose 6mo ago
Could this treatment also help with other neurodegenerative diseases?
- erikerikson 6mo ago
  Do we consider strokes to be neurodegenerative? I would have expected them to be considered acute.
padolsey 6mo ago
My understanding was that strokes caused brain cell death, and that there was no coming back from that, but my neurologists would speak of 'bruised' brain cells, and that after weeks or months or even years you can see recovered function. UCLA's work here is targeting this disconnection and the lost rhythm in the surviving, distant networks. However there is, as yet, NO concievable intervention that could recover function from cell death at that center of the infarct.
- foota 6mo ago
  One wonders if someday we might be able to resurrect the neural network from dead cells by somehow reviving the connections between neurons. I imagine that the connections stay, but become dormant when the neuron dies.
  - steve_taylor 6mo ago
    Perhaps, but I think that by the time we're that far advanced, strokes will be entirely preventable.
    - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 6mo ago
      Strokes will never be preventable. You can mitigate them but a stroke isn't really a disease. It's a symptom. An ischemic stroke (i.e. stroke due to a clot) caused by vascular or cardiac issues can be mitigated. A cryptogenic stroke however is idiopathic and therefore has no understood cause. These types of strokes make up 30-40% of all strokes. Unless we figure out their cause, there's no way to really prevent them. But then there's also hemorrhagic strokes which are an entirely separate category that has causes and mitigations more or less diametrically opposed to those for ischemic strokes. And of course those are just your broad painted categories and they are generally looked at as the start of a medical emergency but strokes happen all the time as a consequence of other medical emergencies. Even if you could perfectly prevent strokes in generally healthy populations, those same people may still end up suffering from a stroke during a surgery or during/after a major accident or injury. No amount of preventative medication can prevent someone suffering a stroke caused by a brain bleed after a car accident. Likewise for someone with a crush injury, internal bleeding, or broken bones that end up throwing a clot which makes it into the brain. So any advancement in halting and reversing damage from a stroke will be a massive boon for emergency medicine until the end of time. Unless of course we somehow find a way to cure/render humans immune to blunt force trauma or lacerations.
hank2000 6mo ago
My understanding was that psychedelics have proven to be effective at opening up a “critical period” where a brain can rewire itself like when in childhood. Wonder if this is related. https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/148/6/1862/8052899?guestAccessKey= https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/148/6/1862/8052899?gu...
martinbfine 6mo ago
Neuralink.
xbmcuser 6mo ago
So my question does it work with Alzheimer's.?
ninjahawk1 6mo ago
[flagged]
throwaway110011 6mo ago
Grey matter in the prefrontal increasing μg measurement with age.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]

448 points by bookofjoe 6mo ago

> “The goal is to have a medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation,” said Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study’s lead author and professor and chair of UCLA Neurology. “Rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery. Sounds truly amazing, I have known two people who had severe strokes - one's PT was contingent on triaging resources to whoever was likely to recover more, another simply hated PT and speech therapy and often refused to participate or do the exercises. Even if it didn't help recovery a medicine like this would have reduced the stress of everyone involved.

mlmonkey 6mo ago

Are there any supplements that can work for neurogenesis? I've heard Lions Mane extract can do this, but I'm not sure. Anybody know of anything?

dirtbagskier 6mo ago
Cardiovascular exercise and strength training. Both are thought to contribute to neurogenesis, even in healthy people
throwforfeds 6mo ago
There's (minimal) research on psilocybin doing just that. One of the tragedies of prohibition is that we just weren't able to study these psychedelic compounds easily for 50+ years.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  Have any sources? I’d love to read what you are thinking about. I haven’t used psilocybin in a clinical setting but have gone through an alternative psychedelic-assisted therapy process. Very interesting results and many positives.
  - sowbug 6mo ago
    Not necessarily neurogenesis, but evidence of neuroplasticity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48030098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48030098
    - grvdrm 6mo ago
      Thank you.
  - throwforfeds 6mo ago
    There's not a lot, unfortunately. This paper is a literature review and the claims are weak, but there's something there that should be investigated further: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12392120/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12392120/ Paul Stamets has evangelized psilocybin + lions mane + niacin for years in a microdosing format, but again, the research is lacking largely due to prohibition.
    - grvdrm 6mo ago
      Awesome. Thank you.
- thinkcontext 6mo ago
  Not to take away from your point about psilocybin but the mushroom brought up, lions mane, is not hallucinogenic.
  - throwforfeds 6mo ago
    For sure, and lions mane is one of the three things Paul Stamets has been talking about for years to take in combination with niacin and psilocybin (microdose) to support neurogenesis. Low doses of psilocybin have only very mild perceptual changes, much less than smoking weed or drinking alcohol (for me). But again, there's not much science on it which will hopefully change.
toasty228 6mo ago
If you don't sleep 8+ hours a day every single day, exercise regularly, live in a place with clean air, eat clean food, don't drink alcohol, etc. you're losing your time, no amount of supplement will make up for our modern way of life, you're going to optimise the 0.1% while missing the 99.9% that matters
- SilentM68 6mo ago
  That is true, but keep in mind that routine is very difficult to do for someone that makes their living running the rat race, with stress, no time, responsibilities, worry, untreated health problems, etc. If you have the money, job security, then you'll have peace of mind. That will then allow one to live that kind of optimized lifestyle.
  - rexpop 6mo ago
    This is why we cannot abide scabs.
    - SilentM68 6mo ago
      I see your point :)
      - rexpop 6mo ago
        Self-respect is an act of charity.
caycep 6mo ago
Of note, cautionary tale is too much neurogenesis is brain cancer...
- dymk 6mo ago
  No, brain cancer is brain cancer.
  - caycep 6mo ago
    which is poorly differentiated cells undergoing unchecked neurogenesis...
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - dymk 6mo ago
      That’s like saying a fire on an oil rig is the same as combustion in a car engine
      - adastra22 6mo ago
        It’s not as bad an analogy as you make it sound. It is more like “fire is what makes our factories run, and oil fuels fire. So let’s douse our factories in gasoline to speed things up.”
NDlurker 6mo ago
Noopept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omberacetam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omberacetam
sysreq_ 6mo ago
Nicotine is the only psychoactive substance proven to increase intellectual function. Rote neurogenisis does not - much in the same way height isn’t a proxy for IQ. Stimulants like Adderall, Caffiene, etc are Dunning-Kruger by proxy.
- contingencies 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- oharapj 6mo ago
  You mean placebo? Not sure that Dunning-Kruger is applicable here
  - sysreq_ 6mo ago
    Maybe a better term is “stimulant-induced metacognitive miscalibration”. An induced a state of overconfidence similar to Dunning-Kruger - even thought the underlying mechanism is different. You perceive the idea as great not because you suddenly understand it better or know more. You think the idea is great because of the dopamine flooding your brain. And much like Dunning-Kruger, even thought you might think you did better, real world results don’t match your expectations.
aeonik 6mo ago
Alpha-GPC and Uridine Monophosphate appear to have some effect, though minor. Also not exactly neurogenesis, but adjacent stuff. Evidence is complicated, there seems to be a signal but it's a weak effect.
RobotToaster 6mo ago
Supposedly NGF eye drops https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/is-this-the-secret-of-eternal-life-1674005.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/is-this-the-secre...
SilentM68 6mo ago
I've read online that "Bacopa Monnieri" is a particularly strong and researched herbal supplement for cognitive maintenance, enhancement and neuroprotection, with the potential of supporting neurogenesis. I've not tried that stuff since money is hard to come by these days. There have been a few human studies. You can find more info here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=bacopa+monnieri+cognition https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=bacopa+monnieri+cognit... and here: https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/bacopa-monnieri https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/bacopa-monnieri
- bookofjoe 6mo ago
  https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-superior-herbs-bacopa-monnieri-extract-bacognize-250-mg-90-caps?variant=46319095677066&DFA=1&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=&utm_id=23078457332&utm_source=google&utm_content=&SourceCode=&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23221997885&gbraid=0AAAAAD_VhC39QgQ2_dr0K8jRjIbb9lucH&gclid=CjwKCAjwn4vQBhBsEiwAq3hhN8CZc166weTjQJRiCIt6k394T2Nc_Yhfn0yCOdsNkpjRfTgSL6VhexoC1fMQAvD_BwE https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-superior-herbs-bac...
  - SilentM68 6mo ago
    Thank you for the link :) I’ve been researching potential solutions to stimulate neurogenesis, specifically looking for a combined approach that maximizes the beneficial effects of several powerful herbs while prioritizing safety and remaining affordable to the sub-middle class. After some research and consultation with AI tools (obviously), I’ve narrowed down a promising blend of ingredients: Bacopa, Curcumin (with piperine – black pepper extract – to improve absorption), Lion’s Mane, Gotu Kola, NGF (delivered via eye drops or another method), Hericium Erinaceus, Marine Collagen, and Dimethylaminoethanol Bitartrate (DMAE). The investigation has made it clear that truly effective neurogenesis isn’t just about boosting NGF levels. It requires a holistic strategy – carefully balancing metabolic pathways, antioxidant defenses, gut health, and inflammation modulation. Creating a supportive environment for neuronal survival, growth, and communication is key, and that includes addressing factors like stress management. Perhaps one of the Bio-themed Tech bros on this forum might consider taking on this type of research endeavor. Or maybe there's an Eddie Morra-themed Tech bro that might have more "Limitless" how-to advice on the matter because the above to-do list is definitely, above my paygrade :)

dirtbagskier 6mo ago

[dead]

seabass-salmon 6mo ago

[dead]

caycep 6mo ago
It really depends on how much the company wants to invest. If it really worked, then it would be relatively straightforward for them to put together a Phase II. Not cheap, but relatively straightforward. Or at least it would have been when we had a functioning FDA Also, the other definition in question is what the UCLA PR person means by "repairing brain damage". As far as I can tell from the paper - the "drug" part was using some neurotransmitter blockers on brain cells on a Petri dish to see if they could change gene expression or oscillatory firing patterns matching recordings in mice undergoing "physical therapy". They did not actually test to see if the stuff grew new brain cells or dendritic connections.

0xWTF 6mo ago

... in male mice. I think savvy universities want PIs who are savvy enough to realize that the point of these is to boost measurable visibility like citation count and h-index, so the headline of a news release boosting the article doesn't matter. They can always blame a copy editor for the headlines. It could read "world peace solved with moon juice." The provost would only care if it generated negative feedback. So it's the PR department's job to juice it as much as possible without getting blowback.

somewhatgoated 6mo ago
Isn’t that where all drugs start out? But yea the headline doesnt tell the full story
- cwillu 6mo ago
  “…in mice” isn't a criticism of the science, it's a criticism of the popularization.
- adastra22 6mo ago
  There are many drugs that don’t work on mice.

KnuthIsGod 6mo ago

[flagged]

bawolff 6mo ago
People go on about this too much. Its the first step, it shows promise. Does that mean it will neccesarily work? No, of course not. But its still exciting to see progress being made.
- bena 6mo ago
  But it's not progress. Not really. Mice are used only partly because they share a considerable amount of DNA with us. But they're mostly used because they're cheap. Both in financial and ethical costs. They live for about two years, and breed in about three months. They are disposable. Over 100 million are killed each year in various labs across the country. And for all of this, only about 5% of medicine that show positive animal results make it to market in some fashion. So basically, the best thing we can say about a mouse-tested drug is that "this most likely won't make things worse". But that's like a low bar.
  - whatshisface 6mo ago
    I think there's some kind of fallacy where you can look at five drugs, all of which came from a pool of 100 promising candidates, then look at the next 100 candidates and say for each one individually that it is not worth celebrating. I call it the, "rounding to zero" fallacy. In reality, if you have 100 5% chances of a cure for a previously incurable illness, you can celebrate each chance a lot.
    - bawolff 6mo ago
      > In reality, if you have 100 5% chances of a cure for a previously incurable illness, you can celebrate each chance a lot. These numbers are obviously entirely made up, but its worth noting that 100 5% chances of a cure, means you have at least 1 cure with (1-(.95)^100) = 99.4% probability. If you are curing an incurable disease with 99.4% probability, celebrating a lot would be an understatement.

MattCruikshank 6mo ago

If you've read Ted Chiang's "Understand," you'll understand why this headline made my eyes pop out. For those who haven't, it's in the "Stories of Your Life and Others" collection, which includes the short story that the film Arrival was based on.

naxios_official 6mo ago
[flagged]
TheGRS 6mo ago
I just read this a few months ago and it was my first thought as well! Like Flowers for Algernon taken to its extremes.
jadbox 6mo ago
I'm a big fan of Ted Chiang's "Understand" short story, but I think your way over hyping the study there: more neuron growth does not even generally translate to higher intelligence and can often introduce a variety of degenerative effects because pathways are not being grown a an organized systematic way through natural process of experience adaptation.
locallost 6mo ago
Thanks for the hint. I'd always thought the movie was inspired by Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. The premise was the same, and even the aliens looked somewhat similar. Vonnegut jokingly described them as an upside down toilet brush.

nubg 6mo ago

How do they test this on mice? Do they trigger brain seizures in them?

Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
Many different techniques for different types of stroke: We can block certain arteries mechanically by inserting a tool, inject photosensitive agent then cause a targeted clot with a laser, inject clotting agent, choke, inject blood vessel dissolving agent and re-inject its own blood. I understand why we research this but I just could not do it.
- srean 6mo ago
  I can understand. One of our family friends just could not continue draining monkeys of blood for biochemistry research. I have been to his lab. The monkeys would panic whenever their cages were touched. I can one needs a level of sociopathy or psychopath to continue this kind of research. The benefits to humanity is substantial though.
  - erikerikson 6mo ago
    So you do nothing on the trolley problem, eh? Not to troll but it doesn't require disease to work through discomfort if you believe the outcome will be worth it.
    - srean 6mo ago
      Why not experiments on convicted criminals, inmates, prisoners of war, political prisoners ... The line is somewhat arbitrary and personal. It makes sense to the person. To be honest, I don't know what decision I will take if a trolley problem is jumped on me without prior notice.
      - erikerikson 6mo ago
        As you write, we all have our own balances. I'd suggest there are ethical reasons against those. As a society we have investigation review boards, laws, and other conventions. There is a sizable set of people that like to outsource (want it done but not to do it) which seems dishonest, like the town butcher in Buddhism bring a bad karma sink.

kleton 6mo ago

It is this compound https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106304/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106304/

elevaet 6mo ago
DDL-920, which apparently looks like this: https://www.probechem.com/userfiles/product/PC-22875.gif https://www.probechem.com/userfiles/product/PC-22875.gif "DDL-920 is a potent, selective and brain permeable negative allosteric modulator (NAM) of the γ-aminobutyric acid type A receptors (GABARs), inhibits parvalbumin (PV) expressing interneurons (PV+INs) and consequently enhances γ-oscillations both in vitro and in vivo." https://www.probechem.com/products_DDL-920.html https://www.probechem.com/products_DDL-920.html

trhway 6mo ago

> This type of neuron helps generate a brain rhythm, termed a gamma oscillation, which links neurons together so that they form coordinated networks to produce a behavior, such as movement. Stroke causes the brain to lose gamma oscillations. Successful physical rehabilitation in both laboratory mice and humans brought gamma oscillations back into the brain and, in the mouse model, repaired the lost connections of parvalbumin neurons. >Carmichael and the team then identified two candidate drugs that might produce gamma oscillations after stroke. These drugs specifically work to excite parvalbumin neurons. Asking while being total layperson here - can we generate those gamma oscillations by an [may be implanted] electronic device? Edit: and google search to help, judging by the dates seems to be a pretty fresh field : https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3002806 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... "... by pairing robotic rehabilitation with a clinical-like noninvasive 40 Hz transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation, we achieved similar motor improvements mediated by the effective restoring of movement-related gamma band power, improvement of PV-IN maladaptive network dynamics, and increased PV-IN connections in premotor cortex. " It also sounds like getting an exoskeleton for such patients can be helpful not only to perform immediate tasks, it also can be a part of the restoring process.

nose 6mo ago

Could this treatment also help with other neurodegenerative diseases?

erikerikson 6mo ago
Do we consider strokes to be neurodegenerative? I would have expected them to be considered acute.

padolsey 6mo ago

My understanding was that strokes caused brain cell death, and that there was no coming back from that, but my neurologists would speak of 'bruised' brain cells, and that after weeks or months or even years you can see recovered function. UCLA's work here is targeting this disconnection and the lost rhythm in the surviving, distant networks. However there is, as yet, NO concievable intervention that could recover function from cell death at that center of the infarct.

foota 6mo ago
One wonders if someday we might be able to resurrect the neural network from dead cells by somehow reviving the connections between neurons. I imagine that the connections stay, but become dormant when the neuron dies.
- steve_taylor 6mo ago
  Perhaps, but I think that by the time we're that far advanced, strokes will be entirely preventable.
  - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 6mo ago
    Strokes will never be preventable. You can mitigate them but a stroke isn't really a disease. It's a symptom. An ischemic stroke (i.e. stroke due to a clot) caused by vascular or cardiac issues can be mitigated. A cryptogenic stroke however is idiopathic and therefore has no understood cause. These types of strokes make up 30-40% of all strokes. Unless we figure out their cause, there's no way to really prevent them. But then there's also hemorrhagic strokes which are an entirely separate category that has causes and mitigations more or less diametrically opposed to those for ischemic strokes. And of course those are just your broad painted categories and they are generally looked at as the start of a medical emergency but strokes happen all the time as a consequence of other medical emergencies. Even if you could perfectly prevent strokes in generally healthy populations, those same people may still end up suffering from a stroke during a surgery or during/after a major accident or injury. No amount of preventative medication can prevent someone suffering a stroke caused by a brain bleed after a car accident. Likewise for someone with a crush injury, internal bleeding, or broken bones that end up throwing a clot which makes it into the brain. So any advancement in halting and reversing damage from a stroke will be a massive boon for emergency medicine until the end of time. Unless of course we somehow find a way to cure/render humans immune to blunt force trauma or lacerations.

hank2000 6mo ago

My understanding was that psychedelics have proven to be effective at opening up a “critical period” where a brain can rewire itself like when in childhood. Wonder if this is related. https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/148/6/1862/8052899?guestAccessKey= https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/148/6/1862/8052899?gu...

martinbfine 6mo ago

Neuralink.

xbmcuser 6mo ago

So my question does it work with Alzheimer's.?

ninjahawk1 6mo ago

[flagged]

throwaway110011 6mo ago

Grey matter in the prefrontal increasing μg measurement with age.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]